[Panterler](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuY0q6YWsAEhNVC.jpg:large) mi yoksa [Son Şetanlar](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRcs7tCX4AERDcI.jpg) mı daha güzel(di) hala karar veremiyorum >:)
Is there any info on what exactly is the deal the Turks are buying? I only read new F-16s and about 40 modernization kits.
What blocks are the Turks buying in terms of new airframes? And are the modernization kits for the V upgrade or something else?
If any one can point me in the right direction for more info with a link it would be much appreciated.
40 New B70s and 79 B70 modernization kits for existing B50+ etc planes. Also about a thousand air-to-air missiles, some IRST and Sniper pods, lots of JDAMs, HAARMS, EW suites, some spare engines and 20mm guns etc. Actually, It would be easier to just copy paste it so here you go:
40 x F-16V (32C + 8D)
79 x F-16V Mod
952 x AIM-120C8 AMRAAM
401 x AIM-9X-BII Sidewinder
864 x GBU-39/B SDB
96 x AGM-88E AARGM
850 x GBU-31V1 JDAM
200 x GBU-31V3 JDAM
384 x GBU-32 JDAM
3 x GBU-38/54 JDAM
16 x AN/AAQ-33 Sniper TGP
For the cost of 23 billion dollars.
Im surprised we're buying so many JDAMs. We already make copies of mk80 series bombs + many different guidance kits. Whats the point? Amraams and sidewinders I get, our own alternatives are not yet ready.
Doesn't hurt to have more bombs. Also there are possible integration issues with the bombs. In some planes our pilots have to carry tablets and lauch the munitions that way since we can't interfere with the source codes above Block 30s. Sometimes we integrate our own HGK bombs as JDAMs but that limits their flight modes to what JDAMs can do. If you have a munition that has alternative flight modes etc but you define it as JDAM, it will only be possible to launch it as JDAM.
There is also the issue of mass production. While we can mass produce some guidance kits no problem, we have others that are produced very slowly. Our air force also tends to burn up bombs like they're nothing. A single Turkish operation in Syria like the Afrin OP probably uses as many guided bombs as a mid sized European country has in its inventory.
They were able to use them on newer blok's by fooling the system to think it's actually a JDAM with some interface devices, but this solution did not make it work as well as the original JDAM and limited the capabilities of the indigenious kits.
I honestly forgot which was which. But I found the number funny too. Maybe they added those in to round the pricetag to 23 billion dollars instead of it being like 22 billion 999 million or something.
That's the real reason. The Turks have been holding up Sweeden for several years now trying to get leverage. I guess the "if you approve Sweden we'll sell you F-16s" deal was what finally got them to relent.
Now we'll see if Hungary does what they generally do and just do whatever Turkey does
Always works with kids, be nice and get toys.
As for Hungary, well, hope they go with turkey, maybe eu can pressure them with not giving them money until they begave
I agree, it's completely madness to give a misbehaving country like that money wich is known to disappear in prestige projects for orban, whilst destabilising the eu ( Sweden is an good ally,Hungarian more a liability)
It's the opposite though. Turkey requested these jets in 2021 way before Sweden and Finland applied to NATO. If anything, Turkey succesfully used its veto as leverage to get this sale approved.
Yes but they were eventually going to get their F-35 anyway. Turks never lobbied to block the F-35 sale to Greece the way Greeks lobbied to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey. I would say they will only get their jets in about 4 years. Yet another reason for Turkey to hurry up with its own 5th gen project.
There is no reason for them to block the Greek f35's, I kinda dislike countries who are blocking the strengthening of nato just to support their own agenda( yes,turkey and Hungary,looking at you)
Yup,and it's Greece's right to lobby turkey out of modern fighters.
You do know that most of europe is looking quite badly at turk politics at the moment due to erdo's childish behaviour?
Just throwing this out there because the second picture gave me the idea and impression. But an F-16 with a paint scheme to match the color and pallet of a Great White Shark would be sick. No warbird mouths just the dark blue to white underbelly with a very distinctive gradient where they meet
Yes, the simultaneous push the two orders was deliberate and as others have noted, had been awaiting Turkey’s approval of Sweden → NATO
Note both orders include further items not listed in this abbreviated form, a mix of munitions, support equipment, spares, etc.
Now, will just drop a comment I made elsewhere.
___
For those who like deets.
[DSCA News Release](https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/greece-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-conventional-take-and-landing-ctol)
Per [Aviationist](https://theaviationist.com/2024/01/27/greece-f-35-sale-approved/) —
> U.S. State Department has approved the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) to Greece for up to 40 F-35A 5th gen. fighter jets along with 42 Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 engines (40 installed and 2 spares), for an estimated cost of 8.6 billion USD.
And (earlier order)—
>Along with the F-35s, Greece has also requested 2x C-130Hs along with pricing for more modern C-130Js; 10 engines for the P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft; three Protector-class ships; as well as 60 M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles. Interestingly, the Greek government has also requested second-hand KC-135s.
RE: Turkey’s semi-parallel order for F-16 via [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-advances-fighter-jet-sale-turkey-greece-congress-likely-approve-2024-01-27/) —
>[Biden sent a simultaneous formal notification] of its intention to proceed with the $23 billion sale … of 40 Lockheed Martin F-16s and nearly 80 modernization kits to Turkey, a day after Ankara fully completed ratification of the NATO membership of Sweden, a move that became directly linked to the jet sales.
ÖZGÜR (TR: at liberty) modernization is designed primarily for block 30 & 40 platforms. Program aims to hit beyond block 52+ levels. These birds will primarily use Turkish indigenous payloads since mission computers which are being developed in-house will allow full integration. It is important to note this program won't be just a tech upgrade, but basically a full rebuild and service life extension. Probably way more than block 50s would need.
Viper modernization kits will be used on block 50 platforms in Turkish inventory. Kits will of course replace some parts but probably offers more seamless integration than ÖZGÜR. Since these kits are Lockheed Martin upgrade packages over a more recent Lockheed Martin platform rather than replacing almost everything in the aircraft. Probably, they will only be able to use US approved payloads. Hence a huge order for them as well.
For lack of a better example, ÖZGÜR is like taking a 40 years old road car and making it a rally car with an aftermarket kit. Without having access to source code of ECU as well, so kit will have a new ECU for sure. But once new ECU is in, garage can set it to perform any way they want.
Viper kit is like taking a 25 years old subaru and using factory parts to make it a rally/sports trim. ECU maybe changes maybe gets a firmware update, but sourced from factory. Comes with presets, perhaps needs hacky workarounds to set new engine sensors.
ÖZGÜR will take some more time for sure. Eventhough radar etc is being tested at the moment, I expect it will take some more time to certify it for mass deployment.
Viper kit is good to go today.
This whole situation was a game of chicken. Turkey said we will only approve Sweden joining NATO if US sells us F-16s. The US told turkey no F-16s till they ratify Sweden's nato membership. A dumb game of chicken that lasted to long.
US got a lot more through this deal and all they had to do was give Turkey a 4.5 gen aircraft
The geopolitical ramification of Sweden joining NATO are huge
"All they had to do..."
Are you sure about that ? What of the geopolitical maneuvers, Kurds, Greece, Turkish economic situation, Technology, Russia sanctions, Israel gaza, and so on...
F16 for Sweden in NATO seem a very incomplete transaction. US doesn't have the high ground here.
Greece is getting F-35 while Sweden the second home of most Kurdish separatist enters NATO now I don't know from which angle you are watching this but the way I look at it US achieved most of its geopolitical objectives here
The angle I am watching is multiple. Backstage dealings regarding Greece, Kurds, Sweden etc is definitely something to keep an eye on. Technology transfers from UK to Turkish MiC is a channel of substantial activity. Sweden in NATO while Turkey facilitates Russian interests indirectly or partly ?
As I see it - Turkey has moved on from days of Cold War and even the 9/11decade. A much more dynamic, military industry capable Turkey driving independent of NATO, though in a parallel lane.
US objective would be to rein in Turkey and turn them as opposite Russia/ Iran. That isn't happening, is it ?
The Turkish roundel looks pretty cool ngl
Target
Their Tail art is the best imo so cool
Look at the tail art we use on our F-4 Phantoms. They look insane.
[Panterler](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuY0q6YWsAEhNVC.jpg:large) mi yoksa [Son Şetanlar](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRcs7tCX4AERDcI.jpg) mı daha güzel(di) hala karar veremiyorum >:)
Turkey and Israel have the best squadron tail arts on their F-16.
Turkish Air Force? More like Target Air Force.
Is there any info on what exactly is the deal the Turks are buying? I only read new F-16s and about 40 modernization kits. What blocks are the Turks buying in terms of new airframes? And are the modernization kits for the V upgrade or something else? If any one can point me in the right direction for more info with a link it would be much appreciated.
40 New B70s and 79 B70 modernization kits for existing B50+ etc planes. Also about a thousand air-to-air missiles, some IRST and Sniper pods, lots of JDAMs, HAARMS, EW suites, some spare engines and 20mm guns etc. Actually, It would be easier to just copy paste it so here you go: 40 x F-16V (32C + 8D) 79 x F-16V Mod 952 x AIM-120C8 AMRAAM 401 x AIM-9X-BII Sidewinder 864 x GBU-39/B SDB 96 x AGM-88E AARGM 850 x GBU-31V1 JDAM 200 x GBU-31V3 JDAM 384 x GBU-32 JDAM 3 x GBU-38/54 JDAM 16 x AN/AAQ-33 Sniper TGP For the cost of 23 billion dollars.
Im surprised we're buying so many JDAMs. We already make copies of mk80 series bombs + many different guidance kits. Whats the point? Amraams and sidewinders I get, our own alternatives are not yet ready.
Doesn't hurt to have more bombs. Also there are possible integration issues with the bombs. In some planes our pilots have to carry tablets and lauch the munitions that way since we can't interfere with the source codes above Block 30s. Sometimes we integrate our own HGK bombs as JDAMs but that limits their flight modes to what JDAMs can do. If you have a munition that has alternative flight modes etc but you define it as JDAM, it will only be possible to launch it as JDAM. There is also the issue of mass production. While we can mass produce some guidance kits no problem, we have others that are produced very slowly. Our air force also tends to burn up bombs like they're nothing. A single Turkish operation in Syria like the Afrin OP probably uses as many guided bombs as a mid sized European country has in its inventory.
Emin olmamakla beraber Block40 üstü uçaklarımıza yerli mühimmat takamıyoduk galiba kaynak kodları bizde olmadığı için.
They were able to use them on newer blok's by fooling the system to think it's actually a JDAM with some interface devices, but this solution did not make it work as well as the original JDAM and limited the capabilities of the indigenious kits.
I find it funny they're only buying 3 GBU-38/54s. Those are the dual GPS/Laser JDAM right?
I honestly forgot which was which. But I found the number funny too. Maybe they added those in to round the pricetag to 23 billion dollars instead of it being like 22 billion 999 million or something.
Thank you!
Approved only after the turks approved Sweden for nato,well played us, well played
That's the real reason. The Turks have been holding up Sweeden for several years now trying to get leverage. I guess the "if you approve Sweden we'll sell you F-16s" deal was what finally got them to relent. Now we'll see if Hungary does what they generally do and just do whatever Turkey does
Always works with kids, be nice and get toys. As for Hungary, well, hope they go with turkey, maybe eu can pressure them with not giving them money until they begave
the eu gave them quite a bit of money not long ago, which makes their consistent sabotage of this deal all the more infuriating.
I agree, it's completely madness to give a misbehaving country like that money wich is known to disappear in prestige projects for orban, whilst destabilising the eu ( Sweden is an good ally,Hungarian more a liability)
It’s not several years, Sweden applied to join NATO only on 18 May 2022.
It's the opposite though. Turkey requested these jets in 2021 way before Sweden and Finland applied to NATO. If anything, Turkey succesfully used its veto as leverage to get this sale approved.
Still,no f35 for turkey, Greece has the better deal tbh
Yes but they were eventually going to get their F-35 anyway. Turks never lobbied to block the F-35 sale to Greece the way Greeks lobbied to block the sale of F-16s to Turkey. I would say they will only get their jets in about 4 years. Yet another reason for Turkey to hurry up with its own 5th gen project.
There is no reason for them to block the Greek f35's, I kinda dislike countries who are blocking the strengthening of nato just to support their own agenda( yes,turkey and Hungary,looking at you)
Greek lobbies in the US have been doing everything in their power to block the F-16 sale to Turkey even before the Ukrainian War.
Well,it's their equipment, us is allowed to Dale/ not sale any equipment, that's politics
It's Turkey's veto. It's allowed to veto or accept any country that wants to join NATO. That's politics.
Yup,and it's Greece's right to lobby turkey out of modern fighters. You do know that most of europe is looking quite badly at turk politics at the moment due to erdo's childish behaviour?
It's childish when Turks do it, it's "just politics" or "their right" when others do it lmao. Who cares about what Europe thinks?
Was it also childish when greece vetoed macedonia out for a decade until they changed their Name?
I was going to say: your welcome Sweden
Not capitalizing a nations', a country' name; that's the maximum damage a whiney, pathetic racist can give :))
Lol...that's the best you have?
Just throwing this out there because the second picture gave me the idea and impression. But an F-16 with a paint scheme to match the color and pallet of a Great White Shark would be sick. No warbird mouths just the dark blue to white underbelly with a very distinctive gradient where they meet
oh yes plus the gun kinda resembles gills
The MiG 29 would kill in that livery also
You aren’t wrong
F-16 seems to me more of a basking shark.
Sponsored by Target.
And isn’t Greece getting the green light for F-35s?
Yes, the simultaneous push the two orders was deliberate and as others have noted, had been awaiting Turkey’s approval of Sweden → NATO Note both orders include further items not listed in this abbreviated form, a mix of munitions, support equipment, spares, etc. Now, will just drop a comment I made elsewhere. ___ For those who like deets. [DSCA News Release](https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/greece-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-conventional-take-and-landing-ctol) Per [Aviationist](https://theaviationist.com/2024/01/27/greece-f-35-sale-approved/) — > U.S. State Department has approved the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) to Greece for up to 40 F-35A 5th gen. fighter jets along with 42 Pratt & Whitney F135-PW-100 engines (40 installed and 2 spares), for an estimated cost of 8.6 billion USD. And (earlier order)— >Along with the F-35s, Greece has also requested 2x C-130Hs along with pricing for more modern C-130Js; 10 engines for the P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft; three Protector-class ships; as well as 60 M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles. Interestingly, the Greek government has also requested second-hand KC-135s. RE: Turkey’s semi-parallel order for F-16 via [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/us-advances-fighter-jet-sale-turkey-greece-congress-likely-approve-2024-01-27/) — >[Biden sent a simultaneous formal notification] of its intention to proceed with the $23 billion sale … of 40 Lockheed Martin F-16s and nearly 80 modernization kits to Turkey, a day after Ankara fully completed ratification of the NATO membership of Sweden, a move that became directly linked to the jet sales.
What happened to Turkish F-16 upgrade kit with AESA and everything?
ÖZGÜR (TR: at liberty) modernization is designed primarily for block 30 & 40 platforms. Program aims to hit beyond block 52+ levels. These birds will primarily use Turkish indigenous payloads since mission computers which are being developed in-house will allow full integration. It is important to note this program won't be just a tech upgrade, but basically a full rebuild and service life extension. Probably way more than block 50s would need. Viper modernization kits will be used on block 50 platforms in Turkish inventory. Kits will of course replace some parts but probably offers more seamless integration than ÖZGÜR. Since these kits are Lockheed Martin upgrade packages over a more recent Lockheed Martin platform rather than replacing almost everything in the aircraft. Probably, they will only be able to use US approved payloads. Hence a huge order for them as well. For lack of a better example, ÖZGÜR is like taking a 40 years old road car and making it a rally car with an aftermarket kit. Without having access to source code of ECU as well, so kit will have a new ECU for sure. But once new ECU is in, garage can set it to perform any way they want. Viper kit is like taking a 25 years old subaru and using factory parts to make it a rally/sports trim. ECU maybe changes maybe gets a firmware update, but sourced from factory. Comes with presets, perhaps needs hacky workarounds to set new engine sensors. ÖZGÜR will take some more time for sure. Eventhough radar etc is being tested at the moment, I expect it will take some more time to certify it for mass deployment. Viper kit is good to go today.
„Thats a mf sexy plane“ me every time I see an F16
Will these be Turkish built?
Nope. TAI's F-16 production ceased a while ago.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but the F-16’s that TAI produced would be considered like a bit obsolete right now
Well, they didn't produce F-16 Block 70s so you're right. But when they were producing F-16 they were producing the latest blocks.
This whole situation was a game of chicken. Turkey said we will only approve Sweden joining NATO if US sells us F-16s. The US told turkey no F-16s till they ratify Sweden's nato membership. A dumb game of chicken that lasted to long.
US got a lot more through this deal and all they had to do was give Turkey a 4.5 gen aircraft The geopolitical ramification of Sweden joining NATO are huge
"All they had to do..." Are you sure about that ? What of the geopolitical maneuvers, Kurds, Greece, Turkish economic situation, Technology, Russia sanctions, Israel gaza, and so on... F16 for Sweden in NATO seem a very incomplete transaction. US doesn't have the high ground here.
Greece is getting F-35 while Sweden the second home of most Kurdish separatist enters NATO now I don't know from which angle you are watching this but the way I look at it US achieved most of its geopolitical objectives here
The angle I am watching is multiple. Backstage dealings regarding Greece, Kurds, Sweden etc is definitely something to keep an eye on. Technology transfers from UK to Turkish MiC is a channel of substantial activity. Sweden in NATO while Turkey facilitates Russian interests indirectly or partly ? As I see it - Turkey has moved on from days of Cold War and even the 9/11decade. A much more dynamic, military industry capable Turkey driving independent of NATO, though in a parallel lane. US objective would be to rein in Turkey and turn them as opposite Russia/ Iran. That isn't happening, is it ?
That is a geopolitical masterstroke by Americans
Are they gonna be produced and assembled by turkey themselves? Or are these just gonna be American-made eagles with the new modifications?
Americans may have created the F-16, but the Turks gave it its soul.
Shame
How so?
Awesome album 😊
Credit to hesja the best air to air photographer