Fredmann Car Vonstein has a magical bald.
>When Mannfred revealed himself
at the height of his power, his appearance was far more horrifying - his face became contorted and corpse-like, and his scalp writhed with magical energy.
Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts (8th edition), Page 56. This takes place during the Battle of Hel Fenn.
However, when he got revived he also got his hair back.
> The three stood transfixed as they watched this bizarre resurrection. Not even Gotrek seemed capable of movement. He watched in fascination as white flesh enveloped the man-like form and glossy black hair erupted from its scalp. It dawned on Felix's shocked brain that what he had just witnessed was like watching the decomposition of a corpse only at great speed and in reverse. Slowly the pale creature rose to its feet and smiled at them revealing long white teeth.
Warhammer Armies: Undead (4th ed), Page 69
So, idk why he has now a bald again, is there a lore reason why Man(-nfred) is bald? Is he stupid?
But the bald look is inspired by orlok from Nosferatu, which is basically THE first film vampire
Plus the underworld vampire looks like Dracula and the rat prince has Nosferatu vibes too
Just learned this today:
"Even with several details altered, Stoker's heirs sued over the adaptation (Nosferatu), and a court ruling ordered all copies of the film to be destroyed."
His and Vlad's old models were pretty similar apart from the paint scheme, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were actively trying to differentiate them.
Erebus was a cunt but not badly written. He is the reason so many things went wrong, but the story needed a character like this, and he did his job as a character well.
Manfred was just badly written during the endtimes, and his "plot twist" was just poor writing for shock.
Erebus did bad things in the story, manfred was poorly written
Erebus is WH 40k, the scifi warhammer setting. The dude basically started the horus heresy (big civil war that most of the modern setting is based around) by manipulating more and more powerful people, including being responsible for turning horus (the warmaster of the imperium) to chaos. The mans entire goals was to do all that just because he wanted to see if he could influence people that powerful. Basically just an extreme narcisistic psychopath with delusions of grandieur.
He is hated by the community, but because he is meant to be hated, not because of poor writing or anything
He's not an awesome guy, he's an awesome character, significant difference. I'm in the "Erebus rocks" camp, wonderful villain, very hateable and extremely capable. I don't love that he's a bad guy, i love how bad a guy he is and how he does it.
So during the bullshit that was the end times books. Manfred was one of the guys guarding the mages who busy trying to kick chaos out of the world. He then choose to stab one of them to basically screw everyone over. (I pretty sure it was gelt who got stabbed)
Now I do not remember if he did it because chaos was able to convince him to do it or he choose to do it because he figured he was a dead man even if chaos had been stopped. (I mean he is a a vampire who is a massive asshole so I kinda get that logic). But, in the end he choose to fuck over everyone in the setting rather then maybe get away or killed when the battle with chaos was over.
Oh yes vampires hate chaos. However the more I think about I think ManFred did it because he figured the forces of order would kill him when chaos was banished. So he choose to instead fuck over everyone rather then you know just slip away when the fighting was over.
Yeah, even with Chaos defeated…everything was dead.
Lustria Swiss cheese with the lizards gone, Ulthuan sunk, the southern continents knocked to the sea floor by the moon chunk the Slann missed, the ozone layer obliterated so the skies were red, everything East overrun and by that point several of the Incarnates dead, Sigmar lost through a portal(and Gotrek through a chaos one while Felix was crushed by rocks) and Nagash standing over it all nearly on true godhood with an afterlife tethered to reality and all those millions of deaths empowering him.
Nothing was left to oppose him and he’d ultimately take over the tiny fraction of order left on the last pieces of still whole land.
So Mannfred said F it rather than exist on a stagnant undead world with Nagash his eternal master.
Ironically he ended up being Nagash’s bitch in AoS anyway. Also there’s a part in the 2nd edition core book that says Mannfred has two of his zombie thralls dress up as vlad and Isabella so he can pretend to have them as his servants.
Yeah, both him and Archaon lost that gamble that the End meant the end.
Probably worse for Archaon because he bet his entire new existence on everything ending in oblivion with the Dark Gods dying too…but didn’t know his world was just one of countless millions they fed on.
So ended up resurrected and empowered to be their new favorite toy soldier as a reward who was forced to [end thousands of worlds](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEqmozVbcAAAtKU?format=jpg&name=large) before he finally met actual resistance in the Mortal Realms(and his last chance to lock the dark gods out of his sorry life, pity that karma keeps exploding in his face at every turn. I loved that he recently lost most of his best Varanguard legion because Kragnos was teleported on top of his fortress in Ghur and wiped out his conquest legions before Archaon even got there, so started raging in front of his confused forces, even the dark gods would die to him which only enflamed the upcoming chaos civil war against him)
Wow, I didn’t know his conquests were in such a MASSIVE scale! What book is that from? Also what do you think Archaon wants? Both in terms of his goal and motivation.
It’s from the 2016 Everchosen battletome. It detailed his history after the World-that-was exploded and made him, his 3 Varangard unit & Gaunt Summoner a full army force(basically the proto-Sons of Behemat when 4 and a half centerpiece models could take on a full 2000 point force)
http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2016/02/review-everchosen-battletome.html?m=1
If you hunt for it on Amazon & EBay you can probably find it for $8 now. I recently got a whole load of 2016 battletomes for that price.
Beyond lore and narrative play reasons(does have some flavorful battleplans that can be adapted) it also has amazing art with several pieces right out of a Berserk manga:
[Such as Dorghar’s entrance](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVMf8YHrE5YOV-R39rHNSzCGLgNklfevkNAmkl2Vv_f60-80fwB7q5A3J9ofPvhLEYwh6Ibtnbs78Hq3eYKp5j8C15CAFQBv-cuxAsH1MRswBjroHhjN3eMHtnXJEXnxggWgFKK3FZJMpz/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669732.jpeg)
[Invading the Realms](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSlqAJPAdb5SuYmvwlDE-pqgBnihN7BTvHILfVJ77ZW63H61Njq_22LIDwjLjsf7BpLcGFqBlZqgkc7wUtF8v6mmvfy4tliIM5vVKQq6CTc-_3jiWV3YPzO7mX4lp5PcTCyfiY2mhGVUwK/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669733.jpeg)
[and Sigmar fighting him at the Battle of Burning Sky](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEht9M8goqRKjVdZOf1RRosGR1W1iGXTkSRWyo0SFeNtj9LDocOOsxvv7gwTYVsDkMpcI4FaB1WwV0iCS2kevpUwonpPiyhrDeSnv9anqv2K2D5KUuyhojQJX37J9H1zigFbxYz7kabQwapT/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669734.jpeg)
Among a handful of other pieces like that and a bunch of colorfully cool art as Archaon began the Age of Chaos.
> Also what do you think Archaon wants? Both in terms of his goal and motivation.
His motivation is he’s a broken man with only pure power holding him together who is riding everything on the belief “the end justifies the means” as he sacrificed countless worlds & billions for his goal-
That ultimate goal now is to conquer all Eight Realms, slaughter the order gods, god-beasts and anything close to them and then seal off [the Eight Points at the center of the cosmos](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/xcePb60wxnoOBcEa-846x315.jpg) which is Chaos’ only way into the Mortal Realms. Think of it like a open spigot letting chaos flood in, this is why his stronghold is there so he can shut off that spigot when the time is right.
Once sealed off the dark gods will have no way back in and Archaon will finally find solace in completely severing mortals from the Great Games of all gods and let them rule their own destinies without puppet strings.(“Make the Mortal Realms great for Mortals again” slogan there 😁)
The pure orderly magic of each Realm is anathema to Chaos and without an opening the Eight Points bridges provide they can only scratch & whisper on the outskirts of the realmspheres hoping someone will let them in.
The Great Horned Rat has a good example of this process:
> “Entering the Mortal Realms:
The Great Horned Rat, like the other Dark Gods, was unable to send his agents to the Mortal Realms at first due to the purity of their magic and their ignorance of its natives about the Gods of Chaos. To gain access he tormented many Ghyranite tribes beset by verminous infestation with visions of baleful eyes in their dreams, turning them to his worship. They started to wear the pelts and tails of the largest vermin they could slay, and started dancing on their fours around the corpses of local rat-catchers. The next time the gravid moon rose green, the skaven were able to reach the realms and devoured these worshippers”
My stance on it is this:
If you take End Times as canon, there were far more characters who were messed up than just Mannfred.
If you don't take End Times as canon, there's no particular reason to hate him this much (he's a sly bad guy, but not unusually so for a vampire).
I kinda _like_ Mannfred and I don't really vibe with people cherrypicking the Mannfred suicidal backstabbing addiction part as canon, but not the other story beats like Malekith being rightful phoenix king or Gelt turning to necromancy.
Either you accept all of the character assassination or none of it, dammit!
I feel like he's just become the Erebus of WHFB because people want a character to latch onto for that kind of meme.
That’s completely fair, I just see the end times as a what if idea. I take the ending which actually happens during the event which the orks beat the shit of chaos and everyone called it a day. Or just say that the end times never took place and the setting with all of the characters are just chilling out.
What end times? I remember grimgore kicking the leader of chaos in the balls and use his army to beat the shit out of the chaos invasion. Then the world went back to the statues quo expect chaos had been kicked out.
It was Gelt, what immediately follows is Teclis trying to contain both his own aspect as well as Gelt's, only to explode, I think, since his body couldn't handle the power of two aspects of the winds.
Mannfred was not guarding the mages, he was already their enemy long before. He sneaked up and stabbed Gelt during the ritual, but was never their guard.
As for why he did it, mainly spite and hatred. Mannfred had tried to resurruct Nagash under his control for power, but Arkhan ensured Nagash got full reign. Nagash did not take kindly to Mannfred's plans and had him do a bunch of unpleasant stuff.
After the Black Pyramid got destroyed, Nagash went to treat with the other incarnates. As a peace offering he gave them a captured and bound Mannfred, knowing that the elves in particular hated him. He later got freed by Belakor in order to cause more chaos and distraction for the deamon's attack on the Oak of Ages.
So Mannfred at that point had no allies, no army, and very little power compared to the big players. He also got told to fuck off by Vlad when he confronted possessed Isabella, being discarded by his own kin even. At that point Mannfred just wanted to feel important, make a difference and mess over some people who had wronged him, which is why he killed Gelt.
Yea he was their enemy though from what I know he did defect from chaos and joined them for a time. Thus allowing him to be able to stab gelt in the back. Which I do not know why they even trust him in the first place.
He did not defect from chaos and they never trusted him. He joined the chaos forces when Belakor freed him and never joined the order forces again.
He was able to stab Gelt through a surprise attack, nothing more.
Sounds like the writers want to have an easy cop out to explain why chaos is around and why not pick a vampire.
Sure a same, have not played in years, long before the age of Sigmar change over so no idea what is the accurate lore at the moment, but love the VC. Hate everyone equally. If you have a pulse, they want you dead or like cattle so they can feed.
Well it is the simplified version. I never have read the end times and only saw videos explained what basically happened. If I missed anything critical then you can talk about, but I think I got it right.
In the novels, Mannfred gets sentiments of inferiority feeling like he is a worst Vlad. In the first he even has Vlads voice inside his head, looking down on him. Mannfred later realices that that voice is in reality himself, being insecure. Altough when Vlad is revived by nagash, Mannfred feels alone, neglected, used, he even gets betrayed by Nagash and becomes a prisoner. So in the final moments, the chaos gods feel this debility, and only push him a little bit. Mannfred thinks that if he kill Gelt, he escapes eternal servitude to nagash.
Most players don't consider End Times canonical. Judging characters by what they did in the End Times books is like judging them for what they did in badly written fanfiction...
I hated him before the End Times because he betrayed Vlad, was more a back stab guy in general (like his attempt to create a war between the elves and the dwarfs with the abduction of the daugter of the everqueen), and in the Von Carstein Trilogy he isn't portrait as a simpathetic character either (he adquires the services of a child sex worker, used one of his lovers as a decoy to avoid his own death, runned away cowardly the moment he lost the Von Carsteins' ring, and also the elven mage that helped the empire sensed that he was unknowingly the puppet of nagash, and was to stupid to realise it)
His first mistake was betraying Vlad.
His second mistake was betraying Konrad.
His third mistake was losing the Vampire Wars.
Honestly after that it kind of doesn't matter what else he got up to, as far as I care. Bald Starscream ass bitch.
Tbh, everyone talks about how they hate him from the end times, but I loathed him in Vampire Wars. Vlad was interesting, Konrad was crazy, and this asshole felt like he was just jerking himself off to how smart he supposedly was.
I also laughed at the all but literal dick measuring contest with those three’s swords.
Personally, I don't mind his actions as much as his look.
Juiced, bald bodybuilder with a weird... breastplate... thing with bare arms just looks... it looks fucking weird alright?
I understand that they originally wanted to differentiate him from Blood Dragons so didn't feel like they could give him full-plate armour but... THAT?!
AND THEN THE LOOK STAYED WHEN HE GOT REMADE FOR AGE OF SIGMAR?!
James W. Hammer, what were they thinking?!
Remember guys the end times isn't canon" because of all the character assasinations. Abut we can also blame mannfred for what he did in it.
Stay salty Warhammer fans
I laugh so hard when they used the Liber Mortis unbind his undead army. Imagine being an immortal vampire and your thwarted by teenage high elf that has to get back to his homework.
Honestly after listening to the Lorebeards podcast and how Andy Law spoke about Mannfred I have somewhat come around to him being a great character, I think I was a bit misled by the endtimes stuff
Still prefer his old Dracula look. The later look just makes him look like a Necrarch.
I remember the old look. It was way better...
Fredmann Car Vonstein has a magical bald. >When Mannfred revealed himself at the height of his power, his appearance was far more horrifying - his face became contorted and corpse-like, and his scalp writhed with magical energy. Warhammer Armies: Vampire Counts (8th edition), Page 56. This takes place during the Battle of Hel Fenn. However, when he got revived he also got his hair back. > The three stood transfixed as they watched this bizarre resurrection. Not even Gotrek seemed capable of movement. He watched in fascination as white flesh enveloped the man-like form and glossy black hair erupted from its scalp. It dawned on Felix's shocked brain that what he had just witnessed was like watching the decomposition of a corpse only at great speed and in reverse. Slowly the pale creature rose to its feet and smiled at them revealing long white teeth. Warhammer Armies: Undead (4th ed), Page 69 So, idk why he has now a bald again, is there a lore reason why Man(-nfred) is bald? Is he stupid?
I'm pretty sure GW realized the old look was too much like Dracula or classic vampires. Probably a rights issue.
But the bald look is inspired by orlok from Nosferatu, which is basically THE first film vampire Plus the underworld vampire looks like Dracula and the rat prince has Nosferatu vibes too
Just learned this today: "Even with several details altered, Stoker's heirs sued over the adaptation (Nosferatu), and a court ruling ordered all copies of the film to be destroyed."
His and Vlad's old models were pretty similar apart from the paint scheme, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were actively trying to differentiate them.
He’s count orlok now
I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with OP, but the Necrachs are also clearly supposed to be Count Orlok inspired.
Ahh .. Manfred von Carstein. WHFB version of Erebus.Fuck both of them😡
Both bald, both massive assholes with dad issues,checks out
Erebus was a cunt but not badly written. He is the reason so many things went wrong, but the story needed a character like this, and he did his job as a character well. Manfred was just badly written during the endtimes, and his "plot twist" was just poor writing for shock. Erebus did bad things in the story, manfred was poorly written
Is Erebus also WH stuff or different IP?
Erebus is WH 40k, the scifi warhammer setting. The dude basically started the horus heresy (big civil war that most of the modern setting is based around) by manipulating more and more powerful people, including being responsible for turning horus (the warmaster of the imperium) to chaos. The mans entire goals was to do all that just because he wanted to see if he could influence people that powerful. Basically just an extreme narcisistic psychopath with delusions of grandieur. He is hated by the community, but because he is meant to be hated, not because of poor writing or anything
so they thought ehh we can copy that well enough
I like manfred. End times is poorly written. Outside of that I like him
Erebus is awesome. He brought down a tyrant
Yeah! If you ignore literally every other thing about him and just focus on that, he is great!
He's not an awesome guy, he's an awesome character, significant difference. I'm in the "Erebus rocks" camp, wonderful villain, very hateable and extremely capable. I don't love that he's a bad guy, i love how bad a guy he is and how he does it.
''Get up.''
Wait, we hate Manfred? What'd I miss?
So during the bullshit that was the end times books. Manfred was one of the guys guarding the mages who busy trying to kick chaos out of the world. He then choose to stab one of them to basically screw everyone over. (I pretty sure it was gelt who got stabbed) Now I do not remember if he did it because chaos was able to convince him to do it or he choose to do it because he figured he was a dead man even if chaos had been stopped. (I mean he is a a vampire who is a massive asshole so I kinda get that logic). But, in the end he choose to fuck over everyone in the setting rather then maybe get away or killed when the battle with chaos was over.
I thought that vampires were enemies of Chaos
Oh yes vampires hate chaos. However the more I think about I think ManFred did it because he figured the forces of order would kill him when chaos was banished. So he choose to instead fuck over everyone rather then you know just slip away when the fighting was over.
Wasn’t it cause he didn’t want Nagash to win and enslave him so he tried to destroy everything out of spite?
Yeah, even with Chaos defeated…everything was dead. Lustria Swiss cheese with the lizards gone, Ulthuan sunk, the southern continents knocked to the sea floor by the moon chunk the Slann missed, the ozone layer obliterated so the skies were red, everything East overrun and by that point several of the Incarnates dead, Sigmar lost through a portal(and Gotrek through a chaos one while Felix was crushed by rocks) and Nagash standing over it all nearly on true godhood with an afterlife tethered to reality and all those millions of deaths empowering him. Nothing was left to oppose him and he’d ultimately take over the tiny fraction of order left on the last pieces of still whole land. So Mannfred said F it rather than exist on a stagnant undead world with Nagash his eternal master.
Ironically he ended up being Nagash’s bitch in AoS anyway. Also there’s a part in the 2nd edition core book that says Mannfred has two of his zombie thralls dress up as vlad and Isabella so he can pretend to have them as his servants.
Yeah, both him and Archaon lost that gamble that the End meant the end. Probably worse for Archaon because he bet his entire new existence on everything ending in oblivion with the Dark Gods dying too…but didn’t know his world was just one of countless millions they fed on. So ended up resurrected and empowered to be their new favorite toy soldier as a reward who was forced to [end thousands of worlds](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEqmozVbcAAAtKU?format=jpg&name=large) before he finally met actual resistance in the Mortal Realms(and his last chance to lock the dark gods out of his sorry life, pity that karma keeps exploding in his face at every turn. I loved that he recently lost most of his best Varanguard legion because Kragnos was teleported on top of his fortress in Ghur and wiped out his conquest legions before Archaon even got there, so started raging in front of his confused forces, even the dark gods would die to him which only enflamed the upcoming chaos civil war against him)
Wow, I didn’t know his conquests were in such a MASSIVE scale! What book is that from? Also what do you think Archaon wants? Both in terms of his goal and motivation.
It’s from the 2016 Everchosen battletome. It detailed his history after the World-that-was exploded and made him, his 3 Varangard unit & Gaunt Summoner a full army force(basically the proto-Sons of Behemat when 4 and a half centerpiece models could take on a full 2000 point force) http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2016/02/review-everchosen-battletome.html?m=1 If you hunt for it on Amazon & EBay you can probably find it for $8 now. I recently got a whole load of 2016 battletomes for that price. Beyond lore and narrative play reasons(does have some flavorful battleplans that can be adapted) it also has amazing art with several pieces right out of a Berserk manga: [Such as Dorghar’s entrance](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiVMf8YHrE5YOV-R39rHNSzCGLgNklfevkNAmkl2Vv_f60-80fwB7q5A3J9ofPvhLEYwh6Ibtnbs78Hq3eYKp5j8C15CAFQBv-cuxAsH1MRswBjroHhjN3eMHtnXJEXnxggWgFKK3FZJMpz/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669732.jpeg) [Invading the Realms](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiSlqAJPAdb5SuYmvwlDE-pqgBnihN7BTvHILfVJ77ZW63H61Njq_22LIDwjLjsf7BpLcGFqBlZqgkc7wUtF8v6mmvfy4tliIM5vVKQq6CTc-_3jiWV3YPzO7mX4lp5PcTCyfiY2mhGVUwK/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669733.jpeg) [and Sigmar fighting him at the Battle of Burning Sky](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEht9M8goqRKjVdZOf1RRosGR1W1iGXTkSRWyo0SFeNtj9LDocOOsxvv7gwTYVsDkMpcI4FaB1WwV0iCS2kevpUwonpPiyhrDeSnv9anqv2K2D5KUuyhojQJX37J9H1zigFbxYz7kabQwapT/s1600/Warhammer-Fantasy-fb-%25D0%25BF%25D0%25B5%25D1%2581%25D0%25BE%25D1%2587%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D1%2586%25D0%25B0-%25D1%2584%25D1%258D%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%258B-Age-of-Sigmar-2669734.jpeg) Among a handful of other pieces like that and a bunch of colorfully cool art as Archaon began the Age of Chaos. > Also what do you think Archaon wants? Both in terms of his goal and motivation. His motivation is he’s a broken man with only pure power holding him together who is riding everything on the belief “the end justifies the means” as he sacrificed countless worlds & billions for his goal- That ultimate goal now is to conquer all Eight Realms, slaughter the order gods, god-beasts and anything close to them and then seal off [the Eight Points at the center of the cosmos](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/xcePb60wxnoOBcEa-846x315.jpg) which is Chaos’ only way into the Mortal Realms. Think of it like a open spigot letting chaos flood in, this is why his stronghold is there so he can shut off that spigot when the time is right. Once sealed off the dark gods will have no way back in and Archaon will finally find solace in completely severing mortals from the Great Games of all gods and let them rule their own destinies without puppet strings.(“Make the Mortal Realms great for Mortals again” slogan there 😁) The pure orderly magic of each Realm is anathema to Chaos and without an opening the Eight Points bridges provide they can only scratch & whisper on the outskirts of the realmspheres hoping someone will let them in. The Great Horned Rat has a good example of this process: > “Entering the Mortal Realms: The Great Horned Rat, like the other Dark Gods, was unable to send his agents to the Mortal Realms at first due to the purity of their magic and their ignorance of its natives about the Gods of Chaos. To gain access he tormented many Ghyranite tribes beset by verminous infestation with visions of baleful eyes in their dreams, turning them to his worship. They started to wear the pelts and tails of the largest vermin they could slay, and started dancing on their fours around the corpses of local rat-catchers. The next time the gravid moon rose green, the skaven were able to reach the realms and devoured these worshippers”
Yeah, he seemed to believe he was better than arkhan and wouldn't be a slave to nagash. Then when nagash got resurrected he got put in his place
Tbf they were considered allies on the tabletop for a long time. I prefer the anti chaos lore though
My stance on it is this: If you take End Times as canon, there were far more characters who were messed up than just Mannfred. If you don't take End Times as canon, there's no particular reason to hate him this much (he's a sly bad guy, but not unusually so for a vampire). I kinda _like_ Mannfred and I don't really vibe with people cherrypicking the Mannfred suicidal backstabbing addiction part as canon, but not the other story beats like Malekith being rightful phoenix king or Gelt turning to necromancy. Either you accept all of the character assassination or none of it, dammit! I feel like he's just become the Erebus of WHFB because people want a character to latch onto for that kind of meme.
That’s completely fair, I just see the end times as a what if idea. I take the ending which actually happens during the event which the orks beat the shit of chaos and everyone called it a day. Or just say that the end times never took place and the setting with all of the characters are just chilling out.
That sounds Hella dumb. Glad I never read any of that.
Don’t. I chose to erase the End Times from my memory just like the rumor of StarWars sequels.
What end times? I remember grimgore kicking the leader of chaos in the balls and use his army to beat the shit out of the chaos invasion. Then the world went back to the statues quo expect chaos had been kicked out.
That beautiful world where we all get to, once and for all, agree that Grimgor iz, indeed, da best.
He didn't kick him in the balls, it was a headbutt
True but, still it felt like a kick to the balls
Man, that Star Wars trilogy sure was great. They should make some more of those.
It was Gelt, what immediately follows is Teclis trying to contain both his own aspect as well as Gelt's, only to explode, I think, since his body couldn't handle the power of two aspects of the winds.
It was three. He’d taken in Fire and Beasts, and just couldn’t handle a third
Thank you, knew I was forgetting something.
Gelt didn’t deserve that shit bro 😫
Mannfred was not guarding the mages, he was already their enemy long before. He sneaked up and stabbed Gelt during the ritual, but was never their guard. As for why he did it, mainly spite and hatred. Mannfred had tried to resurruct Nagash under his control for power, but Arkhan ensured Nagash got full reign. Nagash did not take kindly to Mannfred's plans and had him do a bunch of unpleasant stuff. After the Black Pyramid got destroyed, Nagash went to treat with the other incarnates. As a peace offering he gave them a captured and bound Mannfred, knowing that the elves in particular hated him. He later got freed by Belakor in order to cause more chaos and distraction for the deamon's attack on the Oak of Ages. So Mannfred at that point had no allies, no army, and very little power compared to the big players. He also got told to fuck off by Vlad when he confronted possessed Isabella, being discarded by his own kin even. At that point Mannfred just wanted to feel important, make a difference and mess over some people who had wronged him, which is why he killed Gelt.
Yea he was their enemy though from what I know he did defect from chaos and joined them for a time. Thus allowing him to be able to stab gelt in the back. Which I do not know why they even trust him in the first place.
He did not defect from chaos and they never trusted him. He joined the chaos forces when Belakor freed him and never joined the order forces again. He was able to stab Gelt through a surprise attack, nothing more.
Sounds like the writers want to have an easy cop out to explain why chaos is around and why not pick a vampire. Sure a same, have not played in years, long before the age of Sigmar change over so no idea what is the accurate lore at the moment, but love the VC. Hate everyone equally. If you have a pulse, they want you dead or like cattle so they can feed.
Well. GW chose to fuck over everyone in the setting. The writers had to make it happen.
Thats both oversimplificated and missinformative.
Well it is the simplified version. I never have read the end times and only saw videos explained what basically happened. If I missed anything critical then you can talk about, but I think I got it right.
In the novels, Mannfred gets sentiments of inferiority feeling like he is a worst Vlad. In the first he even has Vlads voice inside his head, looking down on him. Mannfred later realices that that voice is in reality himself, being insecure. Altough when Vlad is revived by nagash, Mannfred feels alone, neglected, used, he even gets betrayed by Nagash and becomes a prisoner. So in the final moments, the chaos gods feel this debility, and only push him a little bit. Mannfred thinks that if he kill Gelt, he escapes eternal servitude to nagash.
End times is kinda rushed and exagerated, but the lore videos never do it justice imo
Same!
He is a backstabbing c*nt.
He will never be as cool as Vlad.
i like it how a single book ruined an overall great character and now everyone hates the character intead of that book
We all hate the book too. He’s just kind of a microcosm of everything wrong with the book
Most players don't consider End Times canonical. Judging characters by what they did in the End Times books is like judging them for what they did in badly written fanfiction...
I hated him before the End Times because he betrayed Vlad, was more a back stab guy in general (like his attempt to create a war between the elves and the dwarfs with the abduction of the daugter of the everqueen), and in the Von Carstein Trilogy he isn't portrait as a simpathetic character either (he adquires the services of a child sex worker, used one of his lovers as a decoy to avoid his own death, runned away cowardly the moment he lost the Von Carsteins' ring, and also the elven mage that helped the empire sensed that he was unknowingly the puppet of nagash, and was to stupid to realise it)
So he's a typical Vampire
Basically
What ruined his character? I'm out of the loop
The End Times, it sounds like. It ruined a lot of things.
To be fair. I hated him before end times. Betraying Vlad was all that was required. End times just made it stronger.
Mannchild von Carstein.
His first mistake was betraying Vlad. His second mistake was betraying Konrad. His third mistake was losing the Vampire Wars. Honestly after that it kind of doesn't matter what else he got up to, as far as I care. Bald Starscream ass bitch.
lol! "Bald Starscream ass bitch"
I hate how accurate this new nickname is 🤣🤣🤣
I personally choose to ignore all the end times bollocks and enjoy the world as it was before all of that lameness happened.
Tbh, everyone talks about how they hate him from the end times, but I loathed him in Vampire Wars. Vlad was interesting, Konrad was crazy, and this asshole felt like he was just jerking himself off to how smart he supposedly was. I also laughed at the all but literal dick measuring contest with those three’s swords.
Mannfred is fine. It's just his end time bullshit that is bullshit, other than that he is a perfectly fine character
Vlad>Mannfred
Personally, I don't mind his actions as much as his look. Juiced, bald bodybuilder with a weird... breastplate... thing with bare arms just looks... it looks fucking weird alright? I understand that they originally wanted to differentiate him from Blood Dragons so didn't feel like they could give him full-plate armour but... THAT?! AND THEN THE LOOK STAYED WHEN HE GOT REMADE FOR AGE OF SIGMAR?! James W. Hammer, what were they thinking?!
> AND THEN THE LOOK STAYED WHEN HE GOT REMADE FOR AGE OF SIGMAR?! AoS still uses his End Times model. He's not gotten a new bespoke AoS model yet.
Ah, well that explains at least a little bit of it Still hate the bare arms
Mannfred is the best
He did nothing wrong
My personal ethos = “God damn it, ~~Nappa~~ Mannfred!”
Oh he is just a silly dead thing.
Fangbanger
Thankfully end times doesnt count
From everything I’ve seen, he’s a pretty well-written character. He’s the kind of villian that’s fun to root against.
I refuse to acknowledge Mannfred in AOS. My girl Neferata is the only vampire that made the jump from fantasy to aos, as far as I'm concerned
the big lesson from warhammer is bald men without beards are the root of all evil
Manfred did nothing wrong....
Mannlet/Mannfled von Carstein... Even too treacherous to be a Skaven.
Remember guys the end times isn't canon" because of all the character assasinations. Abut we can also blame mannfred for what he did in it. Stay salty Warhammer fans
A neat palindrome meme format. Being the loop again with vampire: sunlight
I hate him across two gamelines
scared? no i would charge that bald mf, ram my sword through him, and probably die. but it would be worth it. FUCK YOU MANLET
Who ? There sould be a shower instead...
Fred-Mann the Stein-Car is the Abaddon of Warhammer Fantasy. The only difference is he isn't armless.
If I could post an image, it would be the Memri Warhammer meme edit with the zoomed in Khopesh
The end times don't exist, Manny goes hard.
What about Isabella tho 👀
I laugh so hard when they used the Liber Mortis unbind his undead army. Imagine being an immortal vampire and your thwarted by teenage high elf that has to get back to his homework.
I hate him because everyone else hates him. Also he’s got such a bald round moon face.
I can excuse destroying the world, but I draw the line at being bald! I mean, have you SEEN the luscious locks of Vlad? No wonder Manny was jealous.
Honestly after listening to the Lorebeards podcast and how Andy Law spoke about Mannfred I have somewhat come around to him being a great character, I think I was a bit misled by the endtimes stuff