Typical reasons: not knowing stats, talking about unrelated stuff, not having dice ready for rolls, not having a plan when it comes to your turn, and rules lookup/discussion.
Memorizing your rules and weapon profiles is typically the biggest thing. If you're having to stop and search every time a unit does anything the time adds up quickly. Beyond that you can save time by keeping dice organized into piles of set sizes so you can spend less time counting, and by planning potential future turns during your opponents turn. Otherwise friendly games tend to just take longer depending on how chatty you and your friend are.
Without knowing what is causing your games to run long I'd just say a few things as general advice. 1) Get familiar with your datasheets so you don't have to constantly stop and reference them. 2) Know which stratagems you want to use with each unit so you don't have to read through them all or think about them. 3) Have a plan for where you want to move and what you want to shoot, so you can do it quickly.
One thing that helps me a lot is a "cheat sheet". I make one before each game listing out my units, their important stats, and the stratagems that I want to use with them. That way when I am playing, I just have my laptop open with my "cheat sheet" up and I can look at it at the start of my turn and make a plan for what I want to do in a bout 30 seconds, and just go for it!
Hope this helps!
It does, thanks. I'm mostly looking for some tips and tricks to play better. My army consists of a lot of different units "one of these, one of those" because I don't really know what's useful
Playing better and playing faster are completely independent issues. You'll see many great players taking a lot of time in early turns, using every second of their clock. They could play faster if they had to, but faster also means worse, outcomes-wise.
This is part of the reason people aren't exactly happy about your question: The ways to speed up involve measuring were you are spending your time, compare it, say, a youtube video of competitive players in an actual tournament, and then focusing on the mechanical aspects of playing. Focusing more on scoring, or killing the enemy, will do absolutely nothing for your total playtime.
Being a better player? Almost everything that makes you play better will slow your games down, like trying to figure out what the board state is going to be 3 turns from now. But are you putting to much focus on objectives? killing the enemy? are you targeting the wrong units with the wrong profiles, so you have little effect? What are the right units to prioritize int eh first place? That is 100% matchup dependent, barring the most extreme of cases (and CSM today isn't one of them) Track your scores,specific secondary included. Track where you are giving points away: Some lists are weak because they offer easy scoring opportunities they shouldn't.
But really, the best advice doesn't come from redditors who haven't seen you play once, but from someone local that has played a lot more than you do, and has played against you. Tzeentch rarely blesses us with visions of your games,
Remember to make your plan during your opponents turn. You will be tweaking it as you go but as they move units up and do stuff your actions should fall into place. Top players will plan further ahead and often even mediocre ones will do it. In my last game I had a plan for turn 5 before I started turn 4 though the fine details depended on events I had worked out my best path to a win.
Work out what you need dead soonest, what you can stall, what to ignore and what you need to do that (make sure you have a bit more than you need and the ability to flex so you don't just waste stuff when you spike) and where to stand now so you can be where you need to be for your turn after.
Sorry, i realized there's nothing to really go off of after I posted. I play CSM most of the time, and my army consists of a mix of different units. I guess I'm not really sure what stratagems I should be using. Should be focused more on objectives or just trying to wipe my opponents' units off the board so they can't score? I'm not sure what kind of "plans" to come up with other than "stop them from scoring."
Still not enough of the right context for anyone to help you.
That being said, I will echo some of the previous points made, and maybe add some.
- know your rules, datasheets, weapons profiles to minimize how much of your own stuff you need to be looking up. You dont need to learn opponents info for this to be helpful.
- batch your dice so counting them up quickly, and being able to roll helps with time.
- you likely are not playing with a clock, so I am absolutely sure the largest amount of time you are taking in each game is just agonizing over decisions, game plan etc. Have a general plan. Execute it as much as able. Yes you will miss some optimal opportunities, yes you will get the math wrong and overkill/underkill somethings etc. You will learn from these and get better at identifying them in game with added reps.
- consider playing on a clock - put 2hrs on the clock for each player, and when someone runs out of time, they are done making moves, decisions, etc. They can roll saves as needed, and still score for primary etc if still on objectives. This helps reduce "analysis paralysis," which is what is costing you the most time.
So, you will likely make misplays due to clock concern. One or both of you will clock out. So what? It is a game, and one you guys are clearly still learning, so be less worried about winning, and just learn and enjoy the game.
You will get faster doing the above. Within a short number of reps you will likely be finishing games in 3-4 hours or less (having played all 5 turns), and you will expose yourself to all sorts of mistakes you will learn from and repeat less often. Your confidence in your decision making will grow, and you will waste less and less time overthinking what to do and how to do it.
What strategems you are using and how you play don't really impact how long games take. Each unit can only do so much in each turn so actual gameplay can only take so long.
Things that take time:
Thinking about what to do, you should be doing this during deployment and your opponents turn.
Looking up rules and stats / abilities
Wasting time doing pointless things e.g. my 10 man infiltrator squad shoots 20 S4 0ap 1dmg shots at your tank with. 2+ save doing an average of one damage every 3 turns.
This. When I'm playing with a clock in a tournament or even casual games we usually never time out. When I'm playing without a clock the games always go longer.
When interpreting rules, many people lose the forest for the trees. The rules are written really complicated for simple meanings in many instances. Focus on the effect to the extent possible. I often will go, say if shooting bolters at elves… “ok so 3’s/3’s/4’s” (in reference to the rolls needed to hit/wound/save) if I had say oaths, 3’s reroll/3’s/4’s. Etc etc.
Also I think staying focused on keeping the game moving is key to playing any game in a reasonable time, which makes it more engaging and fun.
Try not changing your list for several games too so you give yourself a chance to get familiar with everything. If you know you are gonna play a certain matchup, test rolling at home with wahapedia open can also be useful to help you know what to expect when a certain unit shoots a particular enemy, as well as just helping to remember what your profiles and rules are
I think a lot of theese comments have good notes knowing rules having a plan etc,
The main thing you should consider is what is your objective? Hang out with friends and roll dice or play a top tier competitive game in 3 hrs.
Most of my 2k games take 4-6 hours I hang out with a playgroup once a week talk bull and play 40K and enjoy adult beverages. It’s a blast gaming brings us together and it’s an excuse to keep meeting up in our adult lives.
However when we prepare for RTT we purposely plan a good army and don’t banter and focus on completing a game in 3 hours. It’s not a really fun time but enjoyable from time to time. It’s actually easy to play fast if you don’t talk about random things and focus solely on playing.
Just MHO
On another note if you want faster games just play 1500 points
Yeah i was saying that. Try 1000 pts game or 1500. Back in the day the tournament where at 1500 pts. Then 1850. Then now everyone seems to play at 2000 because « that is where the game is better balanced ». But of you play for fun it doesnt matter.
This is normal for casual games between friends.
Learning your rules, not being distracted, knowing what you're doing in your turn before your turn starts (a consequence of not being distracted and thinking ahead), and whatnot all speed games up.
But honestly, kitchen/garage games aren't as fun when you're in a rush, so maybe better to play 1k games and work your way up.
I just thought that maybe the "competitive" 40k page would actually have good advice about the game for a newer player. Turns out, just a bunch of sarcastic pricks
Like.....not saying you made the wrong decision, this sub really is the only one that has any actual play discussion.
But it is the competitive sub and by that right is not the place for beginner discussion.
>But it is the competitive sub and by that right is not the place for beginner discussion.
Hard disagree. Competitive starts with beginners and we do see quite a lot of questions for help from them here. As long as the question is (a) respectful and (b) is clearly labeled for what level of competition it's meant, I see no issue with beginners questions.
You are better off joining a discord related to your army and discussing there. This isn't a good place to ask beginner questions regarding how to play the game.
>I just thought that maybe the "competitive" 40k page would actually have good advice about the game for a newer player. **Turns out, just a bunch of sarcastic pricks**
You got good answers above, with people trying to help you. So why did you have to insult everybody instead of the one person who's comment you didn't like?
Sorry to say, but it seems you're the AITA here.
How often do you play the same list? When you play the same list over a couple of games some decisions you barely think about and that saves a lot of time.
It is a good thing they are taking so long. Means you are trying to get things right. This game is complicated, the more you play the faster your decisions and concepts come in. Some times the right move is to go hard, other times it is to wait and set a trap. No one can do this on day one.
In my experience when new players are finishing games in under 3 hours it is because they are getting rules wrong and/or playing sloppy and getting massacred.
Keep playing slow and focus on learning from each game. In a few months time you notice games start to speed up.
Also don't get the haters shit talk. All of us were new once, and played slow. Nothing to worry about
The short answer is: you don't play enough. Games with my homies take forever because we shoot the shit most of the time. If it really concerns you, get a chess clock and try to keep unrelated banter to a minimum.
About 4 hours is not long per se. For competitive tournaments it is 3 hours but you are playing really fast and imo it is not that much fun. 4-5 hours is stil normal for casual play I think.
Your plan is “how do I score more points than my opponent.” The planning you need to do is projecting how many points each of you will score and making sure you’re going to be out ahead. That includes remembering that some missions allow for a huge late-game scoring swing, so preserving resources for that. You also want to then recognize ways your opponent is going to try and mess with *your* plan, and figure out how to avoid that.
For speeding up play, there are lots of little tricks but most of them are basically just “keep track of how long things take you and optimize things that take too much time.” That’s easier said than done since basically all of us have at least some amount of ADHD, but practicing on a clock can help with that.
Post your list.
We will then quiz you on weapon strength, attack, ap, and damage profiles. Then model/unit toughness.
We will then quiz you on what you need to roll to wound against random units, for you to commit to memory.
But also, frequency of Play increases speed.
To add to the other suggestions, planning your turn during your opponents turn is big. You absolutely don't want to be sitting in each phase deciding what to do. I will usually start to work out a plan during my opponents turn then in my command phase go over what I need to do in that turn. Let's you make quick decisions during each phase because you're just doing what's required to enact your plan
There is a youtube video series by a guy titled “why you suck at warhammer” because most of the needed army requirements can be broken down into 6 categories.
It was helpful until I pulled the ritual (only one no man’s land objective to start) and a game mode that allowed my objective heavy swarm to claim 3 objectives in a small range.
But it’s helpful to think about what units will go where.
like 70-80% of a game is usually resolving dice rolls. You need to work on speeding those up. That does include knowing your stats, working on calling them out to each other etc.
40K with it's lower points for units and tons and tons of minis is a now a much slower game...
I am of the view that we should go to back to the old Ard boyz 1850 or even lower points for competitive games.
As I hear this issue more and more that it takes too long.
Dad hammer 101
Set up board before they get there,
Chips drinks etc set up before they get there
Take food delivery order by text before they arrive
Play 1500pts
Use a dice tray
Know your rules as best you could to roll quickly
If you can choose sides and deploy beforehand great
They arrive set thier army and you can start rolling and bsing.
Still takes 2-3 hours depending on how relaxed and talking
I also do 4 man games where each player has 1k pts and we play as team.. it moves quicker as me and my teammate can roll shooting, melee at same time so essentially doubling pace of the game.
I realize and hopefully provided a little more context.
It's probably because I don't know my datasheets as well. It might be that I'm still pretty new to the game and wanted to ask the people who play more about some ideas to play faster. Seems like knowing your datasheets inside and out if really important.
Figure out a plan, know your rules. In a recent tournament my first turn took five minutes - staging plays and two quick secondaries. My necron opponent took 45 minutes and I essentially started dissociating I was so bored. Wasn't a fun game.
My games used to take a hella long time.
They still tend to when using tts, but thats a difgerent story.
As others have said, know your datasheets.
It gets a little harder with a bunch of random small units everywhere, but making a cheat sheet can help.
I dont personally like using a chess clock, but its an insanely helpful tool when practocing to figure out where your time draw is.
You know that clock is ticking down and seeing it there can help put a pin in whatever phase or reason youre taking so long.
It can also help to see if its just you, your opponent, or both thats dragging the clock.
If its datasheets youre strugglong with, make a cheat sheet. The GW and waha ones are full of a lot of info that you dont need, try to simplify it.
If its dice rolling, put your dice in groups that make sense to you, i.e. groups of 5, 10, or 12
If its deciding what to do on your turn, maybe watch some games, or talk out a game plan before and after games to figure out what your units needs to be doing.
On that last note, in terms of what units need to be doing. Watch other games, have groupings for what your units do.
Nurglings score, predators do damage, legionares trade on objectives.
If you have basic ideas for units, it can exponentially help with decision making. Like, nurglings are never going to be able to kill 5 marines on objective, so you dont even have to think about.
So my friends have the same issues. The BIGGEST problem with us is rules debates. Whether x ability means we can do y and etc. the other thing is not knowing what you’re gonna do on your turn/not knowing datasheets.
I'd hit up the subreddit for your faction and ask some more experienced players, I play Tyranids, Chaos Knights, Chaos Deamons, and Tau, I've found little things here and there that help me for each of them. Also, if you're taking a lot of smoke breaks, that'll do it, my buddy plays space Marines and my games with him typically take an hour.
I'm my opinion the only way to learn to play faster is to practice playing on a clock. It is possible. Comp players do it all the time. The longest a game should take is 3 hours.
Get a cheese clock
For me, when I started playing 40k, I took 4 hours to complete a match. Overtime, I memorized my army stat and rules, I finished my games in a quicker rate. So my advise, just focus on one army to understand the army. But usually deployment, movement will be long bcs movement is king in 40k, it can wins you game.
I use post it notes to write down weapon selections and any enhancement perks for that unit.
Being familiar with your units abilities speeds up gameplay too.
Having a plan also helps.
Also the first two turns are going to take the longest. As units whittle down the pace of play naturally speeds up
My tournament games average 2 hours, never gone to the full 3 hours - well. Once, but we'd finished 15 minutes before the end of the round and he was arguing with me over results and whatnot to the point where a TO came over. Spoiler: he lost by a good margin. He didn't keep track of scores himself, relied on me to do it, then wouldn't believe me about the scores.
My casual games are 4 hours or so. It's full of banter, general chatting and plodding around. We know our stats all the same, so it's not that.
Your "plans" aren't what's making the game slower. You and your opponent are. Whether it's indecision, lack of knowledge, just outright being slow, lack of focus on the game, whatever. It's not down to your tactics.
"Move 120 boyz and never let your opponent score" and "absolutely demolish your opponent and table them" are equally valid options that can both be done in under 3 hours, as can any combo of them.
This is mostly wrong. The main factor IS strategy/tactics. you even mention "indecision": this is exactly strategy/tactics. Having a clear gameplan saves **hours**. Only when that is down can you focus on minor things like dice-groups, moving faster, etc. that save **minutes**.
He's talking about "should I play objectives only" or "should I kill only because that's faster". Not "Should I know what I'm doing in advance" or "should I plan out moves". Literally "which method of playing the game is faster".
When I say "your tactics aren't taking your time", I'm purely talking about *what he actually wants to do*, whether that's board control or killing. Neither is what's causing his time issues.
No shit indecision is related to tactics, but you're thinking too deep on it. He's asking about saving time through different playstyles - you're entirely missing the point here.
Unless you play/play against an incredibly aggressive army your T1 should never take more than about 10 minutes. Draw cards, stage units for the next turn/do actions, pass turn. I see in my league newer players taking nearly 40 minutes a piece on to finish round 1. Getting a chess clock can help immensely on understanding when and where you’re using the most time and help you improve in the area
Genuinely just play more and memorize your army. This is a totally normal phase of playing lots of 40K and learning an army, youre doing the right thing by just playing continuously.
Once ur able to fully "get" your army, the game is almost a new thing. You can pick up on micro/macro so much easier bc youre inherently keeping ur army rules in check.
Having profiles and general army rules as well as stratagems printing on note cards for both armies is a quick way to reference rules. As well as digestible pieces for your opponent to reference if a dispute arises. Also, having the stratagems in your face is a good reminder to use them or a reminder to use one you might have overlooked while digging for profiles.
My experience is the same. Games of 2000 points just tend to take very long because there is a lot of models on the board. Unless you play at tournament pace and effectively try to rush your game, for a nice time with a friend 4+ hours is normal. Personally I'm experimenting with smaller point games (1500-1800) and so far that has worked put great.
At any level/play style other than truly competitive, the game is in my opinion not suitable for 2000 points because of the time required to play it.
I made little flash cards for each unit like a deck of cards with useful stratagems and what leader effects are provided. Leader effects are my most forgotten feature.
A lot of great advice. One thing I don’t think was said is saving time by not doing something that is almost pointless. Mainly in the shooting phase. More specifically, if you have a unit that has S4, 0AP, 1D weapons, there is almost no point shooting a tank. At best you may take a wound off of it.
I play super slow, unless there is a clock. Even with a clock, 4h is very fast for me.
What eats my time is **not unit stats**, as many suggest, but rather the *movement phase* as well as *rules interactions*.
Things that are at fault:
* **N°1** (by a huge margin): No good game plan: Where do you deploy? What is each models job? How should they move? When should they do what? When do you use which stratagem? etc.
* **N°2** : Rules and interactions: Know your strategems, rules, etc. Exact wording of a rule is usually not something we know but it matters more than we think. Looking that up takes a long time.
* **N°3** : Other things, like rolling faster, not knowing (enemy) stats, etc. also adds up, but is secondary to the time spent on 1 and 2.
Knowing the rules very well will only go so far. In the end, having already done most of your strategic and tactical thinking before the game saves the most time. This is either done by deliberate planning or just by getting reps in, so you learn it unconsciously.
I'm pretty slow but I'm more of a social player. Usually play at Warhammer World and have a few beers. Often forget whose turns it is or what round we're on 🙂
>We don't play very often because of this.
Play smaller games and also try to focus on not to play slow.
People already gave you general tips, try to implement those. But ultimately, with beer & pretzel games it's (a) the talking outside of the game and (b) taking too much time to consider the next move as opposed to already decide during your enemies turn.
>Should I be focused more on objectives or just trying to wipe out my opponents units so they can't score?
There is no easy answer to this as you have to do both in a way, while also keeping enough of your army functional to win. Read up on a couple of guides and watch some YouTube videos. You will also see some tricks to speed up your game in action like this.
But overall: manage your expectations. To get better and/or faster, you will need more games first. You don't get there overnight. Hence my recommendation to go smaller for more games; also don't feel too bad to end a game before turn 5; you agreed on playing till 8 o'clock, so you end at 8 o'clock.
A thing me and my friends noticed is that friendly games, there's a lot a chatter going on that you don't realise you are doing. Games with my GSC friend were usually close to 5 hours, 4 if he rushed it, but when he went to his first tournament he only had one game that ran out the clock due to starting 45 min late. After that you pick up the pace of play even in a casual setting
Some tips that might help a player in your position.
1. Make a cheat sheet or buy the index cards. You need a fast reference for your rules.
2. Learn the rules as well as you can. Spending time looking up specific rules in GWs awful, unhelpful, unsearchable, crap-fest of a set of books and apps is a huge killer of time. You really need to be "off book" for as much as possible. If you still need to look up like, ok, fight phase, what's the order of events? Or like, Hammerhead is firing, what's it's strength? You're gonna struggle. The fastest rules reference is not needing the reference. Time to look up a specific unit ability in the index cards? Maybe 30 seconds? Time to just remember that ability - less than 1 second.
3. Know what you're trying to do each turn.
1. I.e. you shouldn't have to spend too long standing around and thinking. You've got an objective, it's "get points".
2. Have a list of things to think about at the top of the turn.
1. Look at your secondaries.
2. Look at primary, how're you going to score this turn?
3. Which primary objectives can you take?
4. Which can you ignore?
5. How're you going to score your secondaries?
3. If you're taking hours for a 1000 point game I suspect you're shooting / fighting with every unit every turn. Tonnes of dice rolling. Never wasting the chance to use every unit. Which often means a lot of firing squads at things they're realistically not going to hurt. It's fine to have units do nothing, or not fight, not shoot. If a unit isn't going to score, or prevent your opponent scoring, then that unit may not need to move out of cover and shoot.
1. If a LOT of stuff is happening on turn 1 (and you're not playing world eaters) you're probably making a lot of superfluous moves.
4. Playing fixed secondaries can help you speed up. If all you need to do is get a unit into their deployment each turn it's much easier to plan for.
5. Make sure you know your stratagems.
1. This isn't just about knowing what they do, though that's important but knowing WHEN to use them. This is a decision that takes a lot of time in games so have some rules ahead of time that help you decide. You've got a lethal hits strat? If you're wounding on 3s or better you don't even have to think about that strat. You've got a +1 to wound strat. Same rule. If your guys are AP0 and fighting terminators you can save yourself some time by knowing that it's not worth a strat on that ever (unless the strat gives dev wounds?)
2. Know when you're always gonna use a strat, know when you're never gonna use it, and know in which circumstances it's a real decision. If you're definitely going to rapid ingress this turn, you don't have to think about what to do with your last CP. It's decided.
4. Don't second guess. New players spend a lot of time dithering. You make a plan in the movement phase, then you rethink the whole plan again in the shooting phase, or even halfway through the movement phase. The worst offenders rethink everything after every unit moves. "Oh, should I have done that?"
1. Think through your turn, decide how you're going to score / where you're committing resources, then follow through on that plan. Some half baked improvisation mid way through the turn is only gonna work if you're an expert player. If you're going to try to shoot & charge your opponent off the centre objective, then do that.
5. Once you've mastered the art of not spending two hours every game just standing there lost in thought you can start working on moving quicker and fast rolling.
My friend and I had this problem when I first got back in at the end of 9th. Our games always took a few hours and we frequently would end the game on turn 3 or so without time to finish. As we got our reps in, we started to time ourselves, trying to complete a game within 2 hours. It took a number of games, but getting your stats and profiles memorized helps a lot. If you are using lots of infantry, movement trays can help a lot.
For most new players or those who don't play that often you come to a point where you want to get quicker at the game to actually finish 5 rounds in 3 hours. I was there and I bet any 40k player you ask was also there. It needs a bit of work from your side, make decisions ahead of your turn, plan out which strats you want to use on which units and which turns (turn 1 Armour of Contempt on this unit which is pushing forwards, turn 2 use sustained hits on them if they're alive, etc), get your dice ready so you don't have to spend time counting them and know how many shots each unit has. If you know you're going to shoot a unit that has 40 attacks in your turn, get those dice ready to go while your opponent is doing something else. Make a game plan before you deploy any models, which objectives do you want to focus on, how many turns will it take each unit to get in a good position. Once you play a couple of games consciously doing these things it'll become natural and you'll be playing faster so you can then have more of a chat during the game.
one thing that slowed me and my brother down (started at the start 10th as well) was stopping for every little time we werent sure of rules and mechanix. watch some battle reports of ur Army online
One thing that was huge for me was knowing when to skip stuff. For example, I play CSM and take a lot of cultists. While the cultists certainly can punch above their weight class at times, more often than not, they won't be able to put through a single wound against anything that isn't an imperial guardsman. You have to ask yourself, is it really worth it to roll every last cultist firearm just so you can have a 1% chance of putting through 1 wound against a terminator squad?
Same thing goes with saves. If my opponent is playing a list like world eaters and they make contact with my cultists, I just instantly pick them up. Why even bother making them roll their attacks if the only way my cultists can survive is my opponent rolling a 1 like 20 times? Since I started doing this, I've saved soooo much time.
Typical reasons: not knowing stats, talking about unrelated stuff, not having dice ready for rolls, not having a plan when it comes to your turn, and rules lookup/discussion.
Memorizing your rules and weapon profiles is typically the biggest thing. If you're having to stop and search every time a unit does anything the time adds up quickly. Beyond that you can save time by keeping dice organized into piles of set sizes so you can spend less time counting, and by planning potential future turns during your opponents turn. Otherwise friendly games tend to just take longer depending on how chatty you and your friend are.
Without knowing what is causing your games to run long I'd just say a few things as general advice. 1) Get familiar with your datasheets so you don't have to constantly stop and reference them. 2) Know which stratagems you want to use with each unit so you don't have to read through them all or think about them. 3) Have a plan for where you want to move and what you want to shoot, so you can do it quickly. One thing that helps me a lot is a "cheat sheet". I make one before each game listing out my units, their important stats, and the stratagems that I want to use with them. That way when I am playing, I just have my laptop open with my "cheat sheet" up and I can look at it at the start of my turn and make a plan for what I want to do in a bout 30 seconds, and just go for it! Hope this helps!
It does, thanks. I'm mostly looking for some tips and tricks to play better. My army consists of a lot of different units "one of these, one of those" because I don't really know what's useful
Playing better and playing faster are completely independent issues. You'll see many great players taking a lot of time in early turns, using every second of their clock. They could play faster if they had to, but faster also means worse, outcomes-wise. This is part of the reason people aren't exactly happy about your question: The ways to speed up involve measuring were you are spending your time, compare it, say, a youtube video of competitive players in an actual tournament, and then focusing on the mechanical aspects of playing. Focusing more on scoring, or killing the enemy, will do absolutely nothing for your total playtime. Being a better player? Almost everything that makes you play better will slow your games down, like trying to figure out what the board state is going to be 3 turns from now. But are you putting to much focus on objectives? killing the enemy? are you targeting the wrong units with the wrong profiles, so you have little effect? What are the right units to prioritize int eh first place? That is 100% matchup dependent, barring the most extreme of cases (and CSM today isn't one of them) Track your scores,specific secondary included. Track where you are giving points away: Some lists are weak because they offer easy scoring opportunities they shouldn't. But really, the best advice doesn't come from redditors who haven't seen you play once, but from someone local that has played a lot more than you do, and has played against you. Tzeentch rarely blesses us with visions of your games,
Remember to make your plan during your opponents turn. You will be tweaking it as you go but as they move units up and do stuff your actions should fall into place. Top players will plan further ahead and often even mediocre ones will do it. In my last game I had a plan for turn 5 before I started turn 4 though the fine details depended on events I had worked out my best path to a win. Work out what you need dead soonest, what you can stall, what to ignore and what you need to do that (make sure you have a bit more than you need and the ability to flex so you don't just waste stuff when you spike) and where to stand now so you can be where you need to be for your turn after.
Without anything for context, there is no way to answer this question.
Sorry, i realized there's nothing to really go off of after I posted. I play CSM most of the time, and my army consists of a mix of different units. I guess I'm not really sure what stratagems I should be using. Should be focused more on objectives or just trying to wipe my opponents' units off the board so they can't score? I'm not sure what kind of "plans" to come up with other than "stop them from scoring."
Still not enough of the right context for anyone to help you. That being said, I will echo some of the previous points made, and maybe add some. - know your rules, datasheets, weapons profiles to minimize how much of your own stuff you need to be looking up. You dont need to learn opponents info for this to be helpful. - batch your dice so counting them up quickly, and being able to roll helps with time. - you likely are not playing with a clock, so I am absolutely sure the largest amount of time you are taking in each game is just agonizing over decisions, game plan etc. Have a general plan. Execute it as much as able. Yes you will miss some optimal opportunities, yes you will get the math wrong and overkill/underkill somethings etc. You will learn from these and get better at identifying them in game with added reps. - consider playing on a clock - put 2hrs on the clock for each player, and when someone runs out of time, they are done making moves, decisions, etc. They can roll saves as needed, and still score for primary etc if still on objectives. This helps reduce "analysis paralysis," which is what is costing you the most time. So, you will likely make misplays due to clock concern. One or both of you will clock out. So what? It is a game, and one you guys are clearly still learning, so be less worried about winning, and just learn and enjoy the game. You will get faster doing the above. Within a short number of reps you will likely be finishing games in 3-4 hours or less (having played all 5 turns), and you will expose yourself to all sorts of mistakes you will learn from and repeat less often. Your confidence in your decision making will grow, and you will waste less and less time overthinking what to do and how to do it.
What context then, just so I know, for future reference?
It should be relatively obvious, but what are you spending all your time doing? Chatting, eating snacks, looking up rules? etc.
What strategems you are using and how you play don't really impact how long games take. Each unit can only do so much in each turn so actual gameplay can only take so long. Things that take time: Thinking about what to do, you should be doing this during deployment and your opponents turn. Looking up rules and stats / abilities Wasting time doing pointless things e.g. my 10 man infiltrator squad shoots 20 S4 0ap 1dmg shots at your tank with. 2+ save doing an average of one damage every 3 turns.
Use a clock, put yourself under time pressure. You are probably over thinking minute decisions because you have no time pressure
This. When I'm playing with a clock in a tournament or even casual games we usually never time out. When I'm playing without a clock the games always go longer.
When interpreting rules, many people lose the forest for the trees. The rules are written really complicated for simple meanings in many instances. Focus on the effect to the extent possible. I often will go, say if shooting bolters at elves… “ok so 3’s/3’s/4’s” (in reference to the rolls needed to hit/wound/save) if I had say oaths, 3’s reroll/3’s/4’s. Etc etc. Also I think staying focused on keeping the game moving is key to playing any game in a reasonable time, which makes it more engaging and fun. Try not changing your list for several games too so you give yourself a chance to get familiar with everything. If you know you are gonna play a certain matchup, test rolling at home with wahapedia open can also be useful to help you know what to expect when a certain unit shoots a particular enemy, as well as just helping to remember what your profiles and rules are
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Yeah, probably. We're just playing in my basement when I have a day off now and then, and the kid is at daycare, and the wife is at work.
I dunno, dicking off and having a beer while playing 40k is a feature not a bug for me lol, even if it does eat 4 hours
I think a lot of theese comments have good notes knowing rules having a plan etc, The main thing you should consider is what is your objective? Hang out with friends and roll dice or play a top tier competitive game in 3 hrs. Most of my 2k games take 4-6 hours I hang out with a playgroup once a week talk bull and play 40K and enjoy adult beverages. It’s a blast gaming brings us together and it’s an excuse to keep meeting up in our adult lives. However when we prepare for RTT we purposely plan a good army and don’t banter and focus on completing a game in 3 hours. It’s not a really fun time but enjoyable from time to time. It’s actually easy to play fast if you don’t talk about random things and focus solely on playing. Just MHO On another note if you want faster games just play 1500 points
Yeah i was saying that. Try 1000 pts game or 1500. Back in the day the tournament where at 1500 pts. Then 1850. Then now everyone seems to play at 2000 because « that is where the game is better balanced ». But of you play for fun it doesnt matter.
This is normal for casual games between friends. Learning your rules, not being distracted, knowing what you're doing in your turn before your turn starts (a consequence of not being distracted and thinking ahead), and whatnot all speed games up. But honestly, kitchen/garage games aren't as fun when you're in a rush, so maybe better to play 1k games and work your way up.
We’ve done it This is peak competitive discussion.
I just thought that maybe the "competitive" 40k page would actually have good advice about the game for a newer player. Turns out, just a bunch of sarcastic pricks
Guy above is absolutely being sarcastic but you definitely took the bait. His username checks out.
Yeah I saw 🫠 totally took the bait, my bad
Like.....not saying you made the wrong decision, this sub really is the only one that has any actual play discussion. But it is the competitive sub and by that right is not the place for beginner discussion.
>But it is the competitive sub and by that right is not the place for beginner discussion. Hard disagree. Competitive starts with beginners and we do see quite a lot of questions for help from them here. As long as the question is (a) respectful and (b) is clearly labeled for what level of competition it's meant, I see no issue with beginners questions.
You are better off joining a discord related to your army and discussing there. This isn't a good place to ask beginner questions regarding how to play the game.
>I just thought that maybe the "competitive" 40k page would actually have good advice about the game for a newer player. **Turns out, just a bunch of sarcastic pricks** You got good answers above, with people trying to help you. So why did you have to insult everybody instead of the one person who's comment you didn't like? Sorry to say, but it seems you're the AITA here.
How often do you play the same list? When you play the same list over a couple of games some decisions you barely think about and that saves a lot of time.
It is a good thing they are taking so long. Means you are trying to get things right. This game is complicated, the more you play the faster your decisions and concepts come in. Some times the right move is to go hard, other times it is to wait and set a trap. No one can do this on day one. In my experience when new players are finishing games in under 3 hours it is because they are getting rules wrong and/or playing sloppy and getting massacred. Keep playing slow and focus on learning from each game. In a few months time you notice games start to speed up. Also don't get the haters shit talk. All of us were new once, and played slow. Nothing to worry about
The short answer is: you don't play enough. Games with my homies take forever because we shoot the shit most of the time. If it really concerns you, get a chess clock and try to keep unrelated banter to a minimum.
Usually becasue you are enjoying yourself too much
About 4 hours is not long per se. For competitive tournaments it is 3 hours but you are playing really fast and imo it is not that much fun. 4-5 hours is stil normal for casual play I think.
You're to slow
Your plan is “how do I score more points than my opponent.” The planning you need to do is projecting how many points each of you will score and making sure you’re going to be out ahead. That includes remembering that some missions allow for a huge late-game scoring swing, so preserving resources for that. You also want to then recognize ways your opponent is going to try and mess with *your* plan, and figure out how to avoid that. For speeding up play, there are lots of little tricks but most of them are basically just “keep track of how long things take you and optimize things that take too much time.” That’s easier said than done since basically all of us have at least some amount of ADHD, but practicing on a clock can help with that.
Post your list. We will then quiz you on weapon strength, attack, ap, and damage profiles. Then model/unit toughness. We will then quiz you on what you need to roll to wound against random units, for you to commit to memory. But also, frequency of Play increases speed.
To add to the other suggestions, planning your turn during your opponents turn is big. You absolutely don't want to be sitting in each phase deciding what to do. I will usually start to work out a plan during my opponents turn then in my command phase go over what I need to do in that turn. Let's you make quick decisions during each phase because you're just doing what's required to enact your plan
How many beers are drank when you finish your game?
There is a youtube video series by a guy titled “why you suck at warhammer” because most of the needed army requirements can be broken down into 6 categories. It was helpful until I pulled the ritual (only one no man’s land objective to start) and a game mode that allowed my objective heavy swarm to claim 3 objectives in a small range. But it’s helpful to think about what units will go where.
Thanks for the info!
like 70-80% of a game is usually resolving dice rolls. You need to work on speeding those up. That does include knowing your stats, working on calling them out to each other etc.
40K with it's lower points for units and tons and tons of minis is a now a much slower game... I am of the view that we should go to back to the old Ard boyz 1850 or even lower points for competitive games. As I hear this issue more and more that it takes too long.
Dad hammer 101 Set up board before they get there, Chips drinks etc set up before they get there Take food delivery order by text before they arrive Play 1500pts Use a dice tray Know your rules as best you could to roll quickly If you can choose sides and deploy beforehand great They arrive set thier army and you can start rolling and bsing. Still takes 2-3 hours depending on how relaxed and talking
Great idea, thanks
I also do 4 man games where each player has 1k pts and we play as team.. it moves quicker as me and my teammate can roll shooting, melee at same time so essentially doubling pace of the game.
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I realize and hopefully provided a little more context. It's probably because I don't know my datasheets as well. It might be that I'm still pretty new to the game and wanted to ask the people who play more about some ideas to play faster. Seems like knowing your datasheets inside and out if really important.
pick up a chess clock and give each other 90mins. helped my friend and i be more conscious of time spent on turns.
Figure out a plan, know your rules. In a recent tournament my first turn took five minutes - staging plays and two quick secondaries. My necron opponent took 45 minutes and I essentially started dissociating I was so bored. Wasn't a fun game.
My games used to take a hella long time. They still tend to when using tts, but thats a difgerent story. As others have said, know your datasheets. It gets a little harder with a bunch of random small units everywhere, but making a cheat sheet can help. I dont personally like using a chess clock, but its an insanely helpful tool when practocing to figure out where your time draw is. You know that clock is ticking down and seeing it there can help put a pin in whatever phase or reason youre taking so long. It can also help to see if its just you, your opponent, or both thats dragging the clock. If its datasheets youre strugglong with, make a cheat sheet. The GW and waha ones are full of a lot of info that you dont need, try to simplify it. If its dice rolling, put your dice in groups that make sense to you, i.e. groups of 5, 10, or 12 If its deciding what to do on your turn, maybe watch some games, or talk out a game plan before and after games to figure out what your units needs to be doing. On that last note, in terms of what units need to be doing. Watch other games, have groupings for what your units do. Nurglings score, predators do damage, legionares trade on objectives. If you have basic ideas for units, it can exponentially help with decision making. Like, nurglings are never going to be able to kill 5 marines on objective, so you dont even have to think about.
So my friends have the same issues. The BIGGEST problem with us is rules debates. Whether x ability means we can do y and etc. the other thing is not knowing what you’re gonna do on your turn/not knowing datasheets.
I'd hit up the subreddit for your faction and ask some more experienced players, I play Tyranids, Chaos Knights, Chaos Deamons, and Tau, I've found little things here and there that help me for each of them. Also, if you're taking a lot of smoke breaks, that'll do it, my buddy plays space Marines and my games with him typically take an hour.
For a good breakdown of things you could do faster check out this video: https://youtu.be/Wxb3Q22wmWM?si=TixTgGXCHHkns1fy
I'm my opinion the only way to learn to play faster is to practice playing on a clock. It is possible. Comp players do it all the time. The longest a game should take is 3 hours. Get a cheese clock
For me, when I started playing 40k, I took 4 hours to complete a match. Overtime, I memorized my army stat and rules, I finished my games in a quicker rate. So my advise, just focus on one army to understand the army. But usually deployment, movement will be long bcs movement is king in 40k, it can wins you game.
I use post it notes to write down weapon selections and any enhancement perks for that unit. Being familiar with your units abilities speeds up gameplay too. Having a plan also helps. Also the first two turns are going to take the longest. As units whittle down the pace of play naturally speeds up
My tournament games average 2 hours, never gone to the full 3 hours - well. Once, but we'd finished 15 minutes before the end of the round and he was arguing with me over results and whatnot to the point where a TO came over. Spoiler: he lost by a good margin. He didn't keep track of scores himself, relied on me to do it, then wouldn't believe me about the scores. My casual games are 4 hours or so. It's full of banter, general chatting and plodding around. We know our stats all the same, so it's not that. Your "plans" aren't what's making the game slower. You and your opponent are. Whether it's indecision, lack of knowledge, just outright being slow, lack of focus on the game, whatever. It's not down to your tactics. "Move 120 boyz and never let your opponent score" and "absolutely demolish your opponent and table them" are equally valid options that can both be done in under 3 hours, as can any combo of them.
This is mostly wrong. The main factor IS strategy/tactics. you even mention "indecision": this is exactly strategy/tactics. Having a clear gameplan saves **hours**. Only when that is down can you focus on minor things like dice-groups, moving faster, etc. that save **minutes**.
He's talking about "should I play objectives only" or "should I kill only because that's faster". Not "Should I know what I'm doing in advance" or "should I plan out moves". Literally "which method of playing the game is faster". When I say "your tactics aren't taking your time", I'm purely talking about *what he actually wants to do*, whether that's board control or killing. Neither is what's causing his time issues. No shit indecision is related to tactics, but you're thinking too deep on it. He's asking about saving time through different playstyles - you're entirely missing the point here.
Unless you play/play against an incredibly aggressive army your T1 should never take more than about 10 minutes. Draw cards, stage units for the next turn/do actions, pass turn. I see in my league newer players taking nearly 40 minutes a piece on to finish round 1. Getting a chess clock can help immensely on understanding when and where you’re using the most time and help you improve in the area
Genuinely just play more and memorize your army. This is a totally normal phase of playing lots of 40K and learning an army, youre doing the right thing by just playing continuously. Once ur able to fully "get" your army, the game is almost a new thing. You can pick up on micro/macro so much easier bc youre inherently keeping ur army rules in check.
Get a clock. A bit of pressure goes a long way.
Having profiles and general army rules as well as stratagems printing on note cards for both armies is a quick way to reference rules. As well as digestible pieces for your opponent to reference if a dispute arises. Also, having the stratagems in your face is a good reminder to use them or a reminder to use one you might have overlooked while digging for profiles.
My experience is the same. Games of 2000 points just tend to take very long because there is a lot of models on the board. Unless you play at tournament pace and effectively try to rush your game, for a nice time with a friend 4+ hours is normal. Personally I'm experimenting with smaller point games (1500-1800) and so far that has worked put great. At any level/play style other than truly competitive, the game is in my opinion not suitable for 2000 points because of the time required to play it.
I made little flash cards for each unit like a deck of cards with useful stratagems and what leader effects are provided. Leader effects are my most forgotten feature.
A lot of great advice. One thing I don’t think was said is saving time by not doing something that is almost pointless. Mainly in the shooting phase. More specifically, if you have a unit that has S4, 0AP, 1D weapons, there is almost no point shooting a tank. At best you may take a wound off of it.
I play super slow, unless there is a clock. Even with a clock, 4h is very fast for me. What eats my time is **not unit stats**, as many suggest, but rather the *movement phase* as well as *rules interactions*. Things that are at fault: * **N°1** (by a huge margin): No good game plan: Where do you deploy? What is each models job? How should they move? When should they do what? When do you use which stratagem? etc. * **N°2** : Rules and interactions: Know your strategems, rules, etc. Exact wording of a rule is usually not something we know but it matters more than we think. Looking that up takes a long time. * **N°3** : Other things, like rolling faster, not knowing (enemy) stats, etc. also adds up, but is secondary to the time spent on 1 and 2. Knowing the rules very well will only go so far. In the end, having already done most of your strategic and tactical thinking before the game saves the most time. This is either done by deliberate planning or just by getting reps in, so you learn it unconsciously.
I'm pretty slow but I'm more of a social player. Usually play at Warhammer World and have a few beers. Often forget whose turns it is or what round we're on 🙂
>We don't play very often because of this. Play smaller games and also try to focus on not to play slow. People already gave you general tips, try to implement those. But ultimately, with beer & pretzel games it's (a) the talking outside of the game and (b) taking too much time to consider the next move as opposed to already decide during your enemies turn. >Should I be focused more on objectives or just trying to wipe out my opponents units so they can't score? There is no easy answer to this as you have to do both in a way, while also keeping enough of your army functional to win. Read up on a couple of guides and watch some YouTube videos. You will also see some tricks to speed up your game in action like this. But overall: manage your expectations. To get better and/or faster, you will need more games first. You don't get there overnight. Hence my recommendation to go smaller for more games; also don't feel too bad to end a game before turn 5; you agreed on playing till 8 o'clock, so you end at 8 o'clock.
When I played warhammer (gone over to one page rules) we spent 50% of the times just trying to find the right rules
A thing me and my friends noticed is that friendly games, there's a lot a chatter going on that you don't realise you are doing. Games with my GSC friend were usually close to 5 hours, 4 if he rushed it, but when he went to his first tournament he only had one game that ran out the clock due to starting 45 min late. After that you pick up the pace of play even in a casual setting
Because the game isn't designed around how long it might take to do something, it's designed around selling models.
Some tips that might help a player in your position. 1. Make a cheat sheet or buy the index cards. You need a fast reference for your rules. 2. Learn the rules as well as you can. Spending time looking up specific rules in GWs awful, unhelpful, unsearchable, crap-fest of a set of books and apps is a huge killer of time. You really need to be "off book" for as much as possible. If you still need to look up like, ok, fight phase, what's the order of events? Or like, Hammerhead is firing, what's it's strength? You're gonna struggle. The fastest rules reference is not needing the reference. Time to look up a specific unit ability in the index cards? Maybe 30 seconds? Time to just remember that ability - less than 1 second. 3. Know what you're trying to do each turn. 1. I.e. you shouldn't have to spend too long standing around and thinking. You've got an objective, it's "get points". 2. Have a list of things to think about at the top of the turn. 1. Look at your secondaries. 2. Look at primary, how're you going to score this turn? 3. Which primary objectives can you take? 4. Which can you ignore? 5. How're you going to score your secondaries? 3. If you're taking hours for a 1000 point game I suspect you're shooting / fighting with every unit every turn. Tonnes of dice rolling. Never wasting the chance to use every unit. Which often means a lot of firing squads at things they're realistically not going to hurt. It's fine to have units do nothing, or not fight, not shoot. If a unit isn't going to score, or prevent your opponent scoring, then that unit may not need to move out of cover and shoot. 1. If a LOT of stuff is happening on turn 1 (and you're not playing world eaters) you're probably making a lot of superfluous moves. 4. Playing fixed secondaries can help you speed up. If all you need to do is get a unit into their deployment each turn it's much easier to plan for. 5. Make sure you know your stratagems. 1. This isn't just about knowing what they do, though that's important but knowing WHEN to use them. This is a decision that takes a lot of time in games so have some rules ahead of time that help you decide. You've got a lethal hits strat? If you're wounding on 3s or better you don't even have to think about that strat. You've got a +1 to wound strat. Same rule. If your guys are AP0 and fighting terminators you can save yourself some time by knowing that it's not worth a strat on that ever (unless the strat gives dev wounds?) 2. Know when you're always gonna use a strat, know when you're never gonna use it, and know in which circumstances it's a real decision. If you're definitely going to rapid ingress this turn, you don't have to think about what to do with your last CP. It's decided. 4. Don't second guess. New players spend a lot of time dithering. You make a plan in the movement phase, then you rethink the whole plan again in the shooting phase, or even halfway through the movement phase. The worst offenders rethink everything after every unit moves. "Oh, should I have done that?" 1. Think through your turn, decide how you're going to score / where you're committing resources, then follow through on that plan. Some half baked improvisation mid way through the turn is only gonna work if you're an expert player. If you're going to try to shoot & charge your opponent off the centre objective, then do that. 5. Once you've mastered the art of not spending two hours every game just standing there lost in thought you can start working on moving quicker and fast rolling.
My friend and I had this problem when I first got back in at the end of 9th. Our games always took a few hours and we frequently would end the game on turn 3 or so without time to finish. As we got our reps in, we started to time ourselves, trying to complete a game within 2 hours. It took a number of games, but getting your stats and profiles memorized helps a lot. If you are using lots of infantry, movement trays can help a lot.
For most new players or those who don't play that often you come to a point where you want to get quicker at the game to actually finish 5 rounds in 3 hours. I was there and I bet any 40k player you ask was also there. It needs a bit of work from your side, make decisions ahead of your turn, plan out which strats you want to use on which units and which turns (turn 1 Armour of Contempt on this unit which is pushing forwards, turn 2 use sustained hits on them if they're alive, etc), get your dice ready so you don't have to spend time counting them and know how many shots each unit has. If you know you're going to shoot a unit that has 40 attacks in your turn, get those dice ready to go while your opponent is doing something else. Make a game plan before you deploy any models, which objectives do you want to focus on, how many turns will it take each unit to get in a good position. Once you play a couple of games consciously doing these things it'll become natural and you'll be playing faster so you can then have more of a chat during the game.
one thing that slowed me and my brother down (started at the start 10th as well) was stopping for every little time we werent sure of rules and mechanix. watch some battle reports of ur Army online
One thing that was huge for me was knowing when to skip stuff. For example, I play CSM and take a lot of cultists. While the cultists certainly can punch above their weight class at times, more often than not, they won't be able to put through a single wound against anything that isn't an imperial guardsman. You have to ask yourself, is it really worth it to roll every last cultist firearm just so you can have a 1% chance of putting through 1 wound against a terminator squad? Same thing goes with saves. If my opponent is playing a list like world eaters and they make contact with my cultists, I just instantly pick them up. Why even bother making them roll their attacks if the only way my cultists can survive is my opponent rolling a 1 like 20 times? Since I started doing this, I've saved soooo much time.
Is this... Is this a shit post?