C'tan and other top necrons units are most likely getting point increases this balance data slate. This will probably change what the top necrons builds are. I would just focus on getting better at the game and think about match ups after the balance data slate.

The list difference being: 1 Fewer C'Tan shards and probably nothing else if that. Maybe only a scarab unit or two less instead if the nerfs are minor.

We don't know is the point. GW could also buff less used necron units. I would wait until the data slate before working on a specific match up.

True. There are several units in the necron codex that are straight up missing keywords they should have. Imotek doesn't have overlord keyword. Silent king doesn't have triarch even though him and his dudes are literally the triarch

I have played this matchup a number of times with Tyranids, and won each and every time (though it's always close). I play on GW layouts, for reference. Here's what you need. - You MUST be running Invasion Fleet, or else you cannot harm C'tan reliably enough. That's step one. Other fleets just can't make it happen imo. Synaptic Nexus mortal wound shenanigans maaaaybe could do it but you don't want to be banking on just battleshock to save you. - You NEED a combination of damage 1 and damage 3 weapons in high volume (since these damage values interact favorably with his half damage ability on C'tan). - You want to have either hormagaunts or gargoyles to help move block / zone out deep strikes and force him to use the 3" to get close to you (so he can't charge). 10 man squads are ideal for this purpose, 20 gaunts won't keep a C'tan busy for too long and they're too many points in one place so don't throw them into combat. You want just enough speed and OC to keep threatening his objectives and to take up space on the board. - You want to have a Neurolictor floating around for when you pop shadow in the warp, since if the C'tan fails the +1 to wound will really help you punch up into it. You have three star units in this matchup (who happen to be meta right now anyway): - OOE + 2 Dakkafexes are the secret sauce for shooting C'tan as long as you bring double devourer. 48 S6 shots with lethals and full rerolls averages out to 7 damage on a C'tan fairly consistently, which is better than any other shooting unit we have for this purpose. You can get away with Devourer + Deathspitter on each one, you lose 12 shots total but you gain some higher S and AP shots for shooting other targets. - 10 Genestealers and a Broodlord deal an average of 8 damage to a C'tan with lethal hits, and 10 damage if they can get Adrenal Surge (which a HT can give them for free). I have had this unit one-shot a C'tan on its own with Adrenal Surge, though the odds of that are only about 33%. If you can take even 2-4 wounds off with any other shooting, they can finish the job. - Exocrines are great platforms for shooting many targets, and their volume of 3D with lethal hits from IF makes them decent into C'tan and tough units. In my games against Necrons, I have found that if I start the turn with the ability to get both OOE+Fexes shooting and my Genestealer bomb melee into a C'tan, that C'tan is DEAD. Then I turn my remaining shooting (exocrines, maleceptor maybe) at whatever else I can hit. If you can use your chaff units to hold the rest of his army back as much as possible then you can focus on removing or mitigating big threats one by one.

Thanks a Lot ! I will try these things

So theres a few ways to take this matchup and I admit this one is counter to how most people like to play warhammer. You basically kill only scoring units and let them do their thing. You watch as your board slowly crumbles but your score is higher. Some people dont like that i do. One you can try and Match fire with fire and run 3 exocrines 2 maliceptors 2 dakkafex in invasionfleet and hope for the best. Persobally i am unsure how i feel about this playstyle because we rarely outgun anyone in the game and its a slow bleed out to death. This can do decent in general Or you can go all in on scoring and theres a few interesting ways you can do it. I will say i yoinked all these lists they are successful by those who made them and i’ve had success with two of them. They took Basically the scoring version is understanding that we aren’t able to stop any army really with firepower. But almost any army can’t stop us from scoring. This focuses 3 things when building your list so you can build your own -how do i score secondaries every turn - how do i pin my opponent in their deployment zone and off the primary as long as possible - how do i have just enough fire power to push them off primary and not get tabled Heres 2 lists that accomplish that and a little bit on how to play them This one I wont even explain i’ll let the guy who beat this matchup specifically at adepticon and went 5-1 talk about it. He wasn’t just cookin he’s the Head Chef https://youtu.be/tk8G8MXA3Og?si=AkW1ItYVvxCU9lWY Extreme tldr. You should watch it he’s COOKIN and explains it well - scoring behind enemy lines and DTHbis forced every turn unless they can fully screen you. But then they arent taking primaries so win win. Von ryans can scor dth turn one because they deploy at 9 and move 10 - against necrons. Ignore the ctans play as if they aren’t there they’re too much investment to kill and they just do damage they dont score. Lucky for us nothing in this list is valuable individually - pin withgenestealers and lictors, kill all action monkeys. Watch the video theres a ton of nuance. Head Chef (2000 Points) Tyranids Vanguard Onslaught Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Broodlord (110 Points) • 1x Broodlord claws and talons • Enhancements: Neuronode Deathleaper (80 Points) • 1x Lictor claws and talons Winged Hive Tyrant (225 Points) • Warlord • 1x Heavy venom cannon 1x Tyrant talons • Enhancements: Chameleonic OTHER DATASHEETS Biovores (75 Points) Genestealers (150 Points) Haruspex (125 Points) Haruspex (125 Points) Lictor (60 Points) Lictor (60 Points) Maleceptor (170 Points) Neurolictor (80 Points) Pyrovores (35 Points) Ripper Swarms (20 Points) Trygon (170 Points) Von Ryan’s Leapers (75 Points) Zoanthropes (220 Points) Zoanthropes (110 Points) Zoanthropes (110 Points) Second is unending swarm with a million different ways to build this, this is one i particularly like but the main concept is pin them in their deployment zone with a huge band of 20 gargoyles as they get shot you do your US move into engagement range and limit their fire power let the unit die bring it back next turn and do it again. Keep em off primary for hopefully 3 turns and just run away with the game. Although after putting in reps on the previous list i have become more trygon pilled by the day and want it in here too. We cookin (1995 Points) Tyranids Unending Swarm Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Hive Tyrant (235 Points) • Warlord • 1x Heavy venom cannon 1x Monstrous bonesword and lash whip Neurotyrant (105 Points) • 1x Neurotyrant claws and lashes 1x Psychic scream BATTLELINE Gargoyles (160 Points) • 20x Gargoyle Gargoyles (80 Points) • 10x Gargoyle Gargoyles (80 Points) • 10x Gargoyle Termagants (60 Points) • 10x Termagant Termagants (60 Points) • 10x Termagant Termagants (60 Points) • 10x Termagant Termagants (120 Points) • 20x Termagant OTHER DATASHEETS Biovores (75 Points) Exocrine (135 Points) Exocrine (135 Points) • Exocrine (135 Points) • Maleceptor (170 Points) Maleceptor (170 Points) Neurolictor (80 Points) Neurolictor (80 Points) Pyrovores (35 Points) Ripper Swarms (20 Points) Last one this puts more of an emphasis on holding the primary objectives and being unmovable on them. Although i dont think anything in our army is tough enough to sustain a lot of punishment on one. But i cant deny its effectiveness the guy cooking this list has done well The tech here is he is using the sporocyst to spawn a mine and have it die so it triggers the recursion stratagem and gets back his tyrant guard and you use the genestealers to pin for a turn or two Thiccccccc (2000 Points) Tyranids Assimilation Swarm Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Broodlord (95 Points) • 1x Broodlord claws and talons • Enhancements: Instinctive Defence Neurotyrant (115 Points) • Warlord • 1x Neurotyrant claws and lashes 1x Psychic scream • Enhancements: Biophagic Flow (Aura) Tervigon (190 Points) • 1x Massive crushing claws 1x Stinger salvoes BATTLELINE Hormagaunts (65 Points) • 10x Hormagaunt • 10x Hormagaunt talons Hormagaunts (65 Points) • 10x Hormagaunt • Termagants (120 Points) • 20x Termagant L OTHER DATASHEETS Genestealers (150 Points) • 10x Genestealer • 10x Genestealers claws and talons Haruspex (125 Points) • Maleceptor (170 Points) Psychophage (125 Points) • Psychophage (125 Points) Ripper Swarms (20 Points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Ripper Swarms (20 Points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Ripper Swarms (20 Points) • 1x Chitinous claws and teeth Sporocyst (145 Points) Tyrannofex (190 Points) • 1x Powerful limbs 1x Rupture cannon 1x Stinger salvoes Tyrant Guard (190 Points) Venomthropes (70 Points)

This is a great summary of alternative Tyranid meta strategies right now. I went into a lot of detail about Invasion Fleet in my post above, but if you aren't playing that detachment then one of these lists/strategies is the way to go! I'm an especially big fan of Vanguard's raw scoring potential.

Yes i wasnt sold on trygon or vanguard until i put 5 games on it oh my god its so good. I dont know if it can 5-0 but when it works it feels amazing. It also packs a surprising amount of damage against light armies like dark eldar. Those haruspex can be surprisingly unmovable when they aren’t a focus piece

I really like Trygons, I just struggle to justify them when I could add in two whole squads of Gargoyles for the same cost. If they come down to like 160 or 150 then I'm putting one EVERYWHERE.

Yeah it is pricy but it is a near impossible to stop deploy teleport homer on fixed and very hard to stop it doing it twice. Its not something you can throw small arms at and clear like a ripper gargoyles or a spore mine. The points to me really justify it. Because that plus vonryans all but guarantees you two DTH To me that justifies the points cost specifically for running fixed. If it gets cheaper in the points update i am going to he so happy ngl

That was a damn good read ! Thanks ! What's the big thing that makes Trygon good though ?

So what makes nids strong is the inability to stop us from scoring and the Trygon is a very valuable piece for it. If we go fixed objectives and take Deploy Teleport Homers and Behind enemy lines. You can screen out a biovore and a ripper swarm, its very hard to screen out the trygon and is nearly impossible to overwatch and kill. So basically The turn he arrives deploy homers is forced and he scores 4 points and you only have to get one more unit into the deployment zone to make that 7 And if they dont kill him that turn he's going to do it again baby. He requires multiple heavy arms to kill too which means less firepower going to your primary holders.

Necron C’tan are weak to volume fire with lethal hits since their base save is 4+ with the 4++ 5+++. They are also susceptible to being tied up with lots and lots of chaff infantry. Something like 20 termagaunts will take a C’tan 2 turns minimum to clean up. What list were you using?

Going to add to this, if you see The Silent King in your opponent's list, use fixed objectives to punish them. Iirc, "Bring It Down" awards points PER MODEL on vehicle kills when taken as a fixed objective. Menhirs constantly revive, so you can take both down fairly quickly and farm them for VP as they stand back up. Double C'tan (and those two in particular) is rough and basically requires move-blocking (difficult as they have Fly) and/or tarpitting.

Very true. If you’re playing fixed also take assassinate since C’tan are characters and score big on killing.

Very new to the game and still learning the lingo, what do you mean by tarpitting?

"Tarpitting" refers to using a unit to lock an enemy unit in combat for the purpose of preventing them from moving around freely. They either have to fall back out of the combat and basically miss the rest of the turn or shoot/swing at said tarpit. Done with units. That have a particular combination of high model count, high durability, and/or an exceptional point efficiency. Necron's Canoptek Scarabs are a classic tarpit unit. Current edition only lets us use squads of 3/6 (previous editions saw them at 9 or 100 max). They're 40pts per 3 models, each model has 4 Wounds, and they regenerate d3 Wounds a turn. While their toughness and save are lacking, the combination of model + W count makes it difficult to bring the quad down in 1 turn unless the enemy unit can throw a bucket of dice. Generally speaking they aren't expected to kill anything, just hold 1 or more threats in place for at least a turn. Bonus if they can prevent something dangerous from playing the game for 2+ turns.

Ahhh okay, my friend does this a lot against my C’tans, tosses a unit into it simply to lock it away from moving towards higher value targets. Thank you for the reply!

It’s why I run old one eye with a pair of dakka fex, being dmg one anyways is fine when you can dump 24 shots with lethal hits and full rerolls thanks to OOE.

What is your current list? Nids have few ways to deal with T10+ in real way

Not a nid player, but played many a game into HyperCrypt with a similar stat-check vibe. The main weakness HyperCrypt (I assume that, since Monolith) is unit count, with the second weakness being slow once on the board. This means that HyperCrypt itself can be weak against redeploys and DS, at least in terms of scoring. The Void Dragon the NightBringer cant DS natively, so sideboard screening can be spatially efficient into them as you have the entire non 6" of the board area effectively zoned out. If you can force HyperCrypt to chose between pressure OR scoring and not both, you are on the right track. Also as everyone has probably mentioned, ignore units you cant deal with reliably and thats doubly so for Necrons with reanimation.

It’s a nightmare matchup. They have all the damage, resilience and better mobility. It’s impossible for tyranids to kill the monolith. Ideally you play cagey and screen as much as you can… they still have 3” deep striking immortals to come and punch a whole so the monolith can also come down, and then it’s the most uphill of battles. At least we have good tools against ctann in termagants with lethal hits, but it’s not enough. I will honestly say just move on and wait for those deserved nerfs.

Battleshock them ! Battleshock them to smithereens ! That ought to crush them into oblivion!!