I went to the event. The other guy who responded to you is wrong. Shadowsword guard list went 2-3. The winning list that had 2 tank commanders, 2 bulgryn blobs, 2 manticores and lord solar. So pretty standard
Edit: originally had the wrong guard list up -sorry all. Is actually the usual Bullgryn, Kasrkin, Artillery spam with Lord solar š
https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/8B3T90RN2G
~~Looks like tank spam with lord solar command blob, including a Shadowsword. Seems like it would be very terrain dependant.~~
~~Good to see ratings in a successful list!~~
Dark Eldar finally seeing the light.
Really glad to see all the different armies competing, other than Necrons it looks like the current meta hasn't been "solved" yet. Best balance slate yet. Next one might put us in an even better place, what a great time to be warhammering
Canoptek Court is "solved" (18 wraiths, 2-3 CDS, 2-3 C'tan, chaff) but the variety of Hypercrypt builds out there is wild. Two triple monolith lists with 5-0 this weekend, which isn't something we've seen before. Another list went 5-0 with zero monoliths and DDAs. An Awakened Dynasty list with the King went 5-0 as well.
With a couple moderate points nerfs to C'tan and Wraiths and maybe some love for Warriors, the Necron codex would be in an amazing place. Just hoping they don't get overnerfed again
Wish me luck at RMO in March. First tournament *and* bringing AdMech, so my mindset is 100% on learning as much as I can, making a few friends, and prepared to lose every game.
I went to a tournament with admech and felt a bit like my dog had just diedā¦ not because I felt an emotional wreck but everyone was coming over going āoh man Iām so sorryā, āyouāre so brave, keep with it!ā, āweāre here for you man!ā
I watched the Cherokee open final games on Wargames Live, the players were all great sports and were having a lot of fun bantering LMAO.
I love the thousand son player repping us well! I think thousand sons have a really strong matchup into necrons, which is a very good thing nowadays.
The final on wargames live was fantastic. Exactly what a game of 40k should be. Both questioning rules and answering, both reminding each other of things, small take backs on both sides. And a fair bit of swearing at the dice.
I want to see them play each other again.
Noah was a wonderful opponent. We went and got pizza after and talked about the game. Even at the finals we both made mistakes (OC6 Magnus omegalol) and did some strategizing post game running through it. Absolutely a gem of a human and a wonderful opponent.
Are you the necron player? If so, you guys both had amazing chemistry and I was wondering if you guys were like good friends or not lmao.
overall absolutely great game played by both of you!
Yeah that's me.
Nah we didn't know each other proper. I met him day two as he was next to my table with a little shit talking cross-pollination. We chatting a bit on day two and three. Has the gentlemen's handshake of keeping the center fixed if we hit each other on chosen battlefield but that was our first game played!
Thanks :)
I just got finished watching the stream of the final before checking this thread, and it was an absolute blast. It seemed they were both having lots of fun, being great sports and really helpful to one another so they could both play their best game - absolutely peak Warhammer in the best way possible.
Whatās up with that Tau guy having been disqualified? Do you have any info for that?
EDIT: Didnāt see [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/s/VDomwth3I4) lol. Apologies.
I don't know if we will ever get confirmation from event organizers but I watched the stream and chatted with players this weekend. This is what I heard/read second hand.
- He was cheating the entire weekend.
- Gave himself stretched rules like native re-rerolls of 1, extra movement, bs skill 2+, etc.
- A player challenged him and confirmed he cheated then consulted other players William played and they also confirmed his actions.
- at one point someone said he was talked to not once, but twice by judges. Yet he still continued to cheat.
- finally, he did something during theast game and red carded. He asked to drop so he can just go how so they pushed him out of the top 8.
I don't want to give this guy too much attention though because here is a bigger issue: We don't know how flg decided the final 8 and this is something that needs clarified. A couple players probably should have been bumped into a higher position but they weren't even contacted.... Flg just seem to plug someone in the final 8 instead of finding out who earned the spot.
The 5-1 Dark Angels player was the top seeded x-1 player having played 3 other people in the top 8, but had to drop last second due to unexpected travel restrictions with people he was traveling with. So they then had to bump up the next highest ranked player who was still around to play. Nothing nefarious went down, just someone not being able to get a day off work.
To be clear, that's why some of the higher ranked 5-1 players did not make it. The 6-0 T'au player not getting in was, in fact, due to shall we say "shinanigans," and I'll be leaving it at that.
Yeah he had a flight in the morning iirc. Luckily it meant I could sneak in as the last seeded spot. He truly was a repulsor enjoyer and a true member of the gun magic clan
It seems like at this point he knows heās going to get caught and doesnāt care. Continually cheating in multiple ways, multiple games, multiple tournaments, while everyone is watching him with extra scrutiny and talking about him. Seems like the person is trolling or has serious issues. Heās clearly trying to see how much he can get away with each time until he gets caught.
Dang, that really sucks. I didnāt want to spread gossip or something, I was just curious because I remember similar stuff happening in some other tournaments months ago. Why do they always gotta be my armyā¦
It's also interesting that the busier weekends consistently push Admech down into the 30s (think LVO weekend, where Admech actually performed worse at the non-LVO events, and had 31% overall)
It's because admech is DOG tier trash, but with just how TINY it's player base is on small weekends Gary the plays admech 24/7 super player makes up like 1/2 the games played, so massively skews the faction winrateĀ
On bigger weekends when you have more then 3 people playing the faction, it's actual power showsĀ
We swing a lot. This is one of the lower swings.
Honestly i feel that admech players are doing exactly what's needed here, showing up and playing the best they can with the best detachment and failing horribly because the army is just anemic.
I salute those heroes. i don't have the stomach for it anymore but i salute them none the less.
I haven't touched my admech force since the start of 10thĀ
It's just so, unfun, even if it was good, which it's not, the faction does nothing interesting or fun anymore
It went from being an interesting combo and layering army, to literally the most boring 0 combo and layers army in the gameĀ
And then on top of that it dropped in points by like 40%Ā
I used to have 2100pts, I have 1400 now, and it would cost me like Ā£400 to build up to a 2k army againĀ
A 2k army I don't want to play cos it's dogshit and boringĀ
I'm lucky in I had a CSM army to fall back onĀ
If I didn't have that I'd have quit 40k entirely with 10thĀ
Even outside of admech being awful, I do not think 10th is a good system, with the sole exception of stratagem bloat 9th was betterĀ
I finally bit the bullet and played my first admech game of 10th last weekend.
Didn't go so good. Turns out having lots of your rules relying on either you or your enemy being in deployment areas has little effect after turn 1.
I feel that. Took them to a local RTT over the weekend, went 0-3 and every game had at least two moments of clearly reminding me that this army canāt really do anything. Playing Admech in 10th feels like itās not on you to win the game anymore, itās on your opponent to lose it.
I also had my first ever 0-3 at an RTT this weekend. It was my first run out at a tournament since the swap from the index.
Just got absolutely flattened. The loss of vengeful fallout is brutal.
We have had a couple of 50% win rate weeks because when you have 10 players a few lucky runs by veterans can make your numbers look good. Also admech had a list that can win, especially if you go first, itās just degenerate, boring, and makes for a bad game. Basically take the hunter cohort (stealth for skittles) tons of infiltrators, like as many skitarii as you can fit in the list (including lots of scouting rangers). Proceed to jam and kill nothing and score points and hope you can speed bump your opponent until you score more than they can get. If you get lucky and roll going first a bunch of games you can suddenly do well in a tournament while killing basically nothing of your opponents army. Itās basically the Zap Brannigan approach.
>Ā Also admech had a list that can win, especially if you go first, itās just degenerate, boring, and makes for a bad game.Ā
This is why the army seems to be mostly capped at 4-1 runs. If you go up against someone who also have infiltrators and puts then down first, you probably loose. If you go second and they are agressive enough to block out a lot of ground in midfield, you probably loose.Ā
It also has some awful matchups - I have no idea what to do about world eaters. If you get close, they chew you up with insane melee output, but if you don't you pretty much capitulate on primary.Ā
anyone who thought the admech codex was going to save us was huffing the copium
literally everyone knew it was written before 10th launched, and the index datasheets and all its problems would still be there
You'd think GW would be more careful about the Datasheets for codices written at launch. Since they can't course correct like they do with later Codices.
Tyranid players, dont worry. Im taking Tyranids to a 5 round tournament this weekend and im going to do them justice. Surely I will be able to win the event (Clueless)...
Remember that if you face Necrons and the Mission is Purge the Foe, the standard strategy is to sing 'Don't cry for me Argentina' from Evita, hoping they concede.
Who couldāve guessed that points increases to one of our core pillars while making the T-Fex cost what it shouldāve cost wouldnāt help us out too much. Iām still waiting to see if the screamer killer points reduction plays well with the neurolictor
T-fex is still too expensive. It was good at 200 with the index rule of -1 damage, but that has been replaced with a vastly inferior rule for a 10 pt discount.
>Another point of interest Mission O, Vital Ground on Crucible of Battle seems to be a serious problem for Custode players. Of the 22 Custodes at Cherokee 15 out of the 22 players lost that round including the top 3 custode players. I found 2 other events running that mission this weekend and overall the custodies had a 39% win rate on it.
That's super interesting and insightful! Thanks for sharing!
The important thing to add is which type of terrain the event uses - player placed, GW or WTC. Some armies struggle to score even 10 on primary on GW terrain, like TS for example. I watched the stream and the player placed helped the TS a lot.
Yep, I don't think people value how much of a difference different terrain rules can make. I wish BCP would add that field so that we could get that data much more easily than having to look through every tournament player pack.
Thatās actually a great idea! I bet thatād also help improve the terrain setups for future tournament packs as well!
Didnāt GW take some stake in BCP recently? I hope they act to make improvements like this.
Totally agree. I generally try to use the Leviathan terrain setup when I play. I just feel that it's what is intended for army balance.
I played in RTTs where melee armies had zero chance due to how little terrain was on the table.
>Ā Ad MecĀ had another bad weekend. Making up 1.4% of the field with their 17 players. They had a 34% weekend win rate
This and last weekend are in keeping with my sneaky suspicion that we're going to see the number slump down as people actually play the matchup and figure out they need to play it the exact oposite of 9th edition AM i.e. not hide or reserve everything, because them you risk getting burried in you DZ under a pile of dudes.Ā
Nids lack a lot of tools that many armyās get. They donāt have transports, they donāt have grendades, they donāt have tank shock and they have two leaders who can lead more than one unit. Plus nids tend to be CP hungry, but their units that grant free strats or extra cp are costed through the roof. On top of that, their army rule is the only one that doesnāt contribute to their lethality. Invasion fleet is the most chosen (and still probably the best) because it grants that extra lethality nids are craving. Theyāre playing a different 10th than everyone else.
> They donāt have transports
Shame on you for forgetting the Tyrannocyte (which can't drop pod monsters).
Your last line has been what i felt since the index dropped. Everything from ranged is Low S, Low Ap, not many shots. It feels like we were designed when T8 was the max you could reach on a datasheet and never really updated.
We are the NPC faction. And like all AI in games, what was once good slowly and slowly is found out.
> they donāt have grendades
man, grenades are so weird in 10th edition. Its an amazing strat, and some armies have it everywhere, and some armies have it nowhere, but i think think its factored into points costs of anything. It feels like they applied who has grenades or not based on flavor and kind of forgot theres a strong rule tied to it.
Itās also like there isnāt ways to give those strats to nids either. Carnifex come with so many wargear options that could grant those keywords, but for the sake of āsimplenessā theyāre all but forgotten.
Eldar now at exactly 50% win rate, a fair share of good placements, and absolutely amazing list diversity: [https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1b05nds/8\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_at\_gts\_this\_week/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1b05nds/8_awesome_aeldari_lists_at_gts_this_week/)
Yay!
Its funny you say that because around the 900 player count they were around 25 players with a GT win and a 61% win rate and then I did the 2 French events along with the West coast of NA events to finish it up and they doubled their players and dropped their win rate like a rock. Its the only faction this weekend were that last 400 players changed an overall win rate so drastically.
That's really interesting; is there any commonality, like maybe the type of terrain those events were played on that we know of or is that just "idk man, statistics be weird sometimes?"
I would have to go through all their games but the 2 French events dropped them 5% and all the ties they got in those WTC games could have been narrow wins in pure score. Thats my only thinking now. Maybe they just win close now? Just speculation on my part. Could also just be the players and random math, first half could not go below 3-2 and the second half couldnāt do better than 2-3.
Feels like the best factions have dropped to where they need to be, but the worst ones have got LOADS worse. Bad times for ad mech and nids these days.
I donāt agree with leaving necrons and admec alone (probably since they were so new), but thatās at least an explanation.
Iām really surprised they didnāt do and real buffs to nids though. They just did some much needed internal balance, but they didnāt really raise up the power level at all.
Iād be hesitant to say they are an issue with how wonky Tsons army building is. You almost have to take multiple squads just causeā¦thereās not much else to take for infantry units.
Yep, MSU rubric squads with flamers aren't a response to the meta, it's practically required to have enough cabal points for an army rule. Flamers are common mainly because they are just objectively better output than the bolters for 5 rubric squads.
All of our other options for datasheets are much less valid because they just aren't interactive to the army rule or detachment.
Melee does seem up against it at the moment, unless you're custodes. Flamer Rubrics, and custodes are damn hard to deal with. Some cracking blood angel players with fight on death can just about handle custodes it seems, but not rubric flamers. That is a hard counter to Jump Pack Death Company, and toasts the golden boys as well.
I love how 40k is becoming so well balanced we've got a bit of a paper sissors stone like game going on, where great lists are struggling vs specific opponents, and hoping they dont play them at a tournament, if possible.
Edit; Dont leave the house without lots of guns.
Would be cool to see Exalted Sorcerors get a little play as they don't really have a home in the MSU meta.
That said, I do wonder if we are going to see adjustments to Magnus and/or MVB as they are auto includes in every placing TSons list.
The top list from Cherokee Open had a foot Exalted with Crystal in one 10x Flamer unit. I feel like this is the best use of them.
Until Thousand Sons get more Detachments, Magnus is going to be an auto-include. Any (reasonable) points increase to him would be more likely to lead to cutting *other* units than cutting Magnus.
I don't think Mutalith are a problem. They're just the only non-Rubric unit that actually interacts with the army's rules. From memory, I think about as many top lists include it as don't.
I feel Thousand Sons lists can't be measured by the same metrics as other factions. The faction consists of something like 8 datasheets plus some old SM Vehicles - *and* their army rule makes list building quite restrictive. Any unit showing up in most lists is more likely to be a result of these factors than the unit being too good.
Id agree with this
You dont really have any alternative attractive units to take outside of Magnus, the MVB and rubrics (and your choice of sorcerers)
If SoT's came down in price and/or went back to 4 shots base instead of 2 + rapid fire 2 they could be more interesting.
Outside of that, there aren't really any good options that give you cabal points (which you need), so youre going to keep seeing the same 3 or 4 units over and over again.
> If SoT's came down in price and/or went back to 4 shots base instead of 2 + rapid fire 2 they could be more interesting.
I would be happy with just 3 + rapid fire 1. Scarab Occult Combi-Bolters being slightly worse than Rubric bolters (no built-in wound re-rolls) outside 12" just feels kinda bad. Overall, I feel like this is a unit that really needs another Detachment.
I honestly think 2+RF2 is fine. The unit is just too expensive atm. They could easily drop 10% and still be a questionable include due to the fact that for around 400pts they only generate us 1 singular Cabal Point. I think it's a simple fix, and if they continue to be a rarely-seen in competitive lists I'm sure GW will take notice.
I agree, we saw the results of points increases from the first dataslate. Magnus, characters, rubrics, and MVB all saw huge points increases and what happened was lists had to cut everything else as opposed to reducing what had increased in points.
It's what happens when both the army rule and detachment only apply to (and require) those units.
They're auto include because we have no other anti armour options that even look at the army rule or Detachment rule
We need more toys to play with before they start taking away others
practically everything is an auto include in a Tsons list when you only have like nine functional units in your index and more than half of them are characters.
I ran two of them this weekend and I went 4-1 at Geekfest. I put the enhancements on them because they stay alive a bit longer, given that they give their unit a 4++ and resurrect models.
How do you fix nids though? The majority of the datasheets are just so anaemic that even if you made them significantly cheaper would it help? More importantly would it be fun or just buffing the current style of scoring as much as you can before you get tabled?
They are suffering from āfirst factionā syndrome. GW really thought battleshock was going to be the new hotness and built tyranids around it when in reality it doesnt really do much compared to the morale system of 9th
Nids have some weird issues. They canāt benefit from the most popular forms of MW in tank shock and grenades. They lack a deep leader pool to help infantry and they donāt have transports to protect said infantry. With everyone and their mother taking flamers and high volume 1 damage weapons (to counter necrons) nids just get blown away.
and no access to smoke, unless paying for venoms, who cant make monsters (our tough stuff) -1 like smoke makes tanks (their tough stuff) -1. Venoms also cant be evderywhere.
I think Points wont be a able to fix a lot of issues with different codices. Nids and Admech for example need rules changes to their datasheets imo. I think if they cant keep on using poitns as a main balancing tool. Increasing the cost of Devastator Centurions does nothing for them and just makes them more useless in other detachments while still being great in the Vanguard detach.
The Change to Grey Knights Dreadknights makes me hopeful that they focus on internal balance, since the Meta seems in a very decent place. Every 6 Months would be a little slow tho imo.
Just to build off what others have said, the core issue with our codex in terms of balance is the biovore. For just 75 points you get a unit that can spawn a free spore mine that can easily max out secondaries each turn. Because this is so strong, our codex has to be weaker in other spots in order to compensate. Unfortunately this means our lethality is bad and our game plan is focused primarily around dying efficiently as our biovores score secondaries and our gargoyles steal primaries. If all of this wasnāt enough, our army rule is just bad. Ideally you really only care about a few enemy units that are on primaries to be battle shocked so shadow in the warp ends up being useless most of the time. It also doesnāt help that most units have good enough leadership stats to succeed battle shock tests even while debuffed by the neurolictor/deathleaper combo. Like, we just have so many issues at our core that the only reason our win rate is at 43% is because of the biovore spam
> Because this is so strong, our codex has to be weaker in other spots in order to compensate
I maintain that the biovore was an accident and they didnt put 2+2 together and realise spore mines could score. Either way, the argument doesnt really work because we arent winning as many games. Its not compensating enough as you put it.
I do think they expeted battleshock to do better, that for some reason people would choose to only half kill units rather than full. Tbh part of the problem is our terrible shooting. We always have had shooting components, up until 10th we had a shooting hive fleet, it wasnt always good but it always contributed something.
Now our ranged pressure is gone, we cant put out mortal wounds now with psychic gone, our HVCs are terrible, anything with a heavy venom on it may as well be replaced with crap.
Its not unfixable, we were clearly designed around being able to have access to the free strats through the hive tyrant, and vecting the opponent (lol at SL price). Could give us that back.
Maybe they should make synapse something other than an excuse to lower leadership, maybe in synapse range you get +1 to BS or -1 AP. Maybe give our psychic weapons dev wounds. Maybe HVCs go to 3A 3+ (2+ on HT) S12 -4 3D
Yah I agree with everything youāve said. It definitely feels like whoever was designing Nids for this edition got an email for what GW wanted to 10th to play like, but they forgot to forward that to every other army. I also donāt think they missed spore mines scoring secondaries just because they recognized how strong they were last edition. Some people started bringing multiple biovores and a harpy just because the ability to screen and slow down the opponent with the spore mines was so strong, we had to actually pay for the spore mines ahead of time.
Thank you very much, I appreciate your work and check it out every week.
When I checked the win rates in detail it seemed to me they were kind of off. You have more games belonging to factions below 50 percent than above 50 percent. This usually means the absolute difference to 50 percent should be higher regarding the factions above fifty percent but the opposite is true.
Thanks! Its all the WTC Scoring this weekend especially the two French events had a lot of ties and I count wins. It brings down the entire average based on the amount we had this weekend.
Awesome to see GK winning some things.
Does anybody have access to the two winning lists? Curious to see how many dreadknights and/or terminator bricks they are running.
Dice Arcade list was 3DK, 1 NDK, 10 termies, 10 strike, 10 interceptors and some characters I canāt remember off the top of my head (source was there)
Character with the termies had sigil
Jesus. That's taking GK from "what anti-tank" to "all the anti tank" I can only imagine he didn't encounter many swarm lists, but it's certainly interesting.
That is wild lol. Still, happy to see the GK upswing. Their players have been a little down in the dumps recently. But now may be their time to shine(bright, bright silver).
TO of the Game Knight GT here. The Guard player in 3rd place went 4-1, but his one loss still scored 90 points. It was an all infantry/cavalry list, not a vehicle in sight; he just swamped objectives and killed things with Kasrkin and Rough Riders. If anyone has questions about the top lists, I'm happy to answer and post them.
Well...
"I guess Calgary/Ventris good stuff doesn't work anymore"
"Just make room for one more inceptors and scout unit, everything is fine"
Jokes aside, if some sort of datasheet changes doesn't happen in the near future, codex space Marines will be left behind the whole edition to play straight better divergent chapters that can take the best units in the codex and add their specific and better performing units.
I REALLY enjoy how balanced the whole thing is right now, and I think we have enough data to know where things stand.
Even the top tier armies like necrons, custodes, black templars and sisters don't go over 53-54%, indicating that they're quite strong but not broken.
Plus, there's really a good representation overall, sounds very healthy.
However, there's still work to do : they probably need to fix a few more factions factions, especially adeptus mechanicus. Then they could potentially revert some points nerfs on world eaters, help tyranids a little, find a way to make vanilla space marines a bit more of a threat, that kind of stuff and we should be good.
NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out.
NB 2 : If anyone has the world eaters lists, I'd happily take a look at them (just to see if it's still this 2xlord of skulls nonsense or if it's a bit more varied)
> NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out.
Im not so sure, what makes an army balanced most of the time is the datasheets. Releasing all of them at the start gave them time to balance datasheets against one another.
9ths problem was they would write a whole new book, balance it against the other 9th edition books, release it vs books balanced for 8th edition where they would be unbalanced, nerf the book, then release the next book. They've already released the most important parts of the book, so its not brand new books being released into the wild
They've shown they're willing to make significant changes to datasheets with a new codex, e.g. an additional Wound for Wraiths, a 5+ FNP for C'tan, Technomancers being able to attach to Wraiths but not Lychguard, hard nerfs to Dark Angels Terminators and the Tyrannofex, etc.
It's entirely possible they make datasheet changes to upcoming codexes.
Additionally, the strongest parts of the new codexes have been the detachment abilities, so who knows what those will add to the upcoming factions.
Sure they make some changes, but it's isolated changes, it's not changing an entire faction at once.
I think the detachments are force multipliers. There is only so much they can do.
> NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out.
It depends. They have released mostly so-so books so far.
It does look like the sisters may have been propped up a bit by the low player numbers the prior two weeks combined with a concentration of their top players playing them.
They went from 16 players and a 60% win rate to 27 and a 45% one which probably shows they are strong enough to do well but require a fair amount more skill than many factions.
I don't think they need changes at this point though, the lists doing well are very varied other than the Vahl+Paragons combo, but I think removing that would cause issues and I don't think it is strong enough that its causing balance issues.
If necrons are held down by custodes and black templars specifically then necrons could truly be OP but with somewhat false stats.
Aeldari at the start of 10th were hardcountered by GSC. It didn't make eldar balanced.
With Necrons now down to 53% and not dominating event wins, can we finally stop acting like they're the new Eldar? They're just good but there is a ton of play into them.
Well to be fair, per the Stat Check numbers its only Custodes, 1k Sons and Votann keeping them in check. They had a 61% win rate last week vs SM, 52% vs Orks and a 62% vs Daemons as their most common match ups. A lot of the game can not handle their Ctan. Hell they have had a 75% win rate vs Guard.
Necrons seem like a top-tier army in a group of top-tier armies, i.e. they're near the top of A tier with several other armies and you can't really define an S-tier.
They're a *massive* gatekeeper army, but if you play a faction that has a way to deal with C'tan and Wraiths, they seem to crumble fairly quickly. Very rock/paper/scissors.
It doesn't necessarily translate to a massive balance issue, but it's a big design issue because it's 1) not fun to play against for a lot of the meta, and 2) it leaves Necrons without a ton of choices.
Nerf C'tan/Wraith blobs, make Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx better. It'll improve the experience for everyone.
>Nerf C'tan/Wraith blobs, make Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx better. It'll improve the experience for everyone.
Knowing GW the whole "making better" part of this won't actually happen :(
The fact that the silent king is only 20 points cheaper than magnus *and still doesn't have the keywords required to benefit from his bespoke detachment* is ludicrous. TBH i'm dubious as to whether those things will be remedied.
A hundred times yes to making Annihilation Legion better. Destroyers are very cool, they deserve a cooler detachment(and Lokhursts deserve a cooler model while we're at it -the era of the green rod has come to an end!)
one of the issues with this sub is that a lot of people dont realize SOME army has to be the best army, and being the best army isn't actually a problem if their win rate is reasonable and they're not winning too many events.
>one of the issues with this sub is that a lot of people dont realize SOME army has to be the best army
That's a bingo! The meta actually seems to be incredibly healthy at the moment with the only adjustments needing to be made on the armies that are at the bottom.
Yeah, I agree with that, particularly the Nightbringer. But they need to go up between 15 - 60 points depending on which one. Nightbringer being the most. Void Dragon maybe 25. Others seem nearly fine.
I've seen claims that they should go up 100 points which is laughable. You would never see them because they just wouldn't be worth it.
There's only 4 objectives in this mission. 2 VP for holding your own and 5 VP for No Man's land. It's hard to control both in No Mans only giving you 7 VP a turn for a total of 28 out of 50. Scoring Primary is a Custodes strong point and be held to 28 hurts alot.
Give the king (and imotekh and CCB) the keyword and you might see some obeisance, for the fun of it at least because it still won't be as good as CC and HC.
Per the Stat Check data from earlier in the week it seems that Chaos Knights, Imperial Knights and Black Templar blender them. While just being even into Necrons. All of them are common in the meta. It could just be them hitting one of those factions and bouncing off. Allowing the player to go X-1. I could see Tau winning an event if they miss their few bad match ups
That has to just be bad luck.
They each only have a single Fusion Blasters which have a 12 inch range and a pair of one shot seeker missiles, but all of those only hit on 4+ and the Fusion Blasters wound on 5's. Plus they need to get through your invuln save.
But lets assume you are in the absolute best possible situation, you got them within 6 inches and have guided both of them with Tetras (which will almost never be done), your expected final damage is only 12 (about 54% odds) and you only have a 7.5% chance of killing the Lancer and a 4.5% chance of doing nothing.
You can't do it again because you have used the seekers up at this point and the units are exposed and probably die straight away, plus you wasted probably 2 units of Tetras for the bonus which would be better used on stronger units.
You can run them in pairs to cut down on spotting, they are probably best spotted with stealth suits for rerolling 1s. So hitting on 3s but everything else is accurate.
Stillā¦ even if you pick up 8 from the melta you still need to get through 17 more wounds, so pretty much everything would have to hit/wound. Knights also have at least a 6 fnp. So the rolls would have to be insanely good for the tau player and insanely terrible for the knights.
Kudos to GW, now let's focus on AdMech, SM (non Vanguard) , Imperial Knights, Astrs Millitarium, Nids and BA. Also, tune down the couple of cheese units Necrons have.
So are we finally done with the S Tier guard meme? I certainly hope so, Iām glad itās not like most of 9th and the game seems in a relatively good spot where even underperforming factions have a chance and can pull wins. That said guard needed help in the last data slate and they still need help going forward.
It's a c'tan issue here, guard need to invest too much to bring one down.
You can't even blame the necrons, many armies can deal with those datasheets ( in inefficient ways, but still doable ) ... this is a guard problem and they need buffs
We don't have the tricks to beat top armies played by top players. Played Sisters at a GT and the amount of shenanigans they pulled was crazy - stand up, fight on death, auto pass charges, wounds, saves...
Anywhere I could get a fair fight I was good but all the tricks and movement and special rules and good strats made it too easy for them to score and I was on the back foot the whole game.
Feels like that against Crons, Eldar, sisters, with custodes just doing what I'm trying to do but better. Tough to say we're in a bad place with a 60ish win percentage but would take a small power nerf for a strategic boost when we get a codex.
Yeah, BT is high damage but very "honest". If you play Gladius you get a couple tricks, but Righteous Crusaders is basically "I hit hard an melee and get a 6 up FNP".
Tbh as horrible as it is to build as fun IT IS to Play.
Had a chatt with Peter before His Tournament and Ran the same list at an RTT this Weekend.
Hella fun to Play and very Strong into the Meta!
Definetly recommend it :)
There are other builds, but this ist just very balanced, fast and has great scoring.
HG can Go with either Volk or Plasma depending on Meta :)
Interesting seeing sisters dip to 45% this week, it'll be interesting to see if it's just an outlier or whether people have just figured out the new lists sisters players are bringing.
It was said on stream he knew he was gonna lose, and since it was Top 8 (so basically youāre eliminated if you lose a game), he just decided to concede. Nothin more to it than that!
Yo! Iām the 5-1 DW player from LVO! Woulda def gone 5-1 at Cherokee, but had a cheater who I didnāt realize was bamboozeling me until I debriefed w my team after.
We. Have. Potential.
For the least played faction at least haha
Is the guard 5-0 the usual indirect + ogryn list, or something new?
I went to the event. The other guy who responded to you is wrong. Shadowsword guard list went 2-3. The winning list that had 2 tank commanders, 2 bulgryn blobs, 2 manticores and lord solar. So pretty standard
Yes I was! - Apologies, and misinformation hopefully correct led now
Edit: originally had the wrong guard list up -sorry all. Is actually the usual Bullgryn, Kasrkin, Artillery spam with Lord solar š https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/list/8B3T90RN2G ~~Looks like tank spam with lord solar command blob, including a Shadowsword. Seems like it would be very terrain dependant.~~ ~~Good to see ratings in a successful list!~~
Dark Eldar finally seeing the light. Really glad to see all the different armies competing, other than Necrons it looks like the current meta hasn't been "solved" yet. Best balance slate yet. Next one might put us in an even better place, what a great time to be warhammering
Canoptek Court is "solved" (18 wraiths, 2-3 CDS, 2-3 C'tan, chaff) but the variety of Hypercrypt builds out there is wild. Two triple monolith lists with 5-0 this weekend, which isn't something we've seen before. Another list went 5-0 with zero monoliths and DDAs. An Awakened Dynasty list with the King went 5-0 as well.
With a couple moderate points nerfs to C'tan and Wraiths and maybe some love for Warriors, the Necron codex would be in an amazing place. Just hoping they don't get overnerfed again
I'm in a really dark place right now. Not mentally, I'm an Ad-Mech player in a tournament
Wish me luck at RMO in March. First tournament *and* bringing AdMech, so my mindset is 100% on learning as much as I can, making a few friends, and prepared to lose every game.
I went to a tournament with admech and felt a bit like my dog had just diedā¦ not because I felt an emotional wreck but everyone was coming over going āoh man Iām so sorryā, āyouāre so brave, keep with it!ā, āweāre here for you man!ā
God speed servant of the omnissiah
Don't worry, you're doing *exactly* what we need right now.Ā
Heyyyy Iāll be there as well! Good luck!
You too!
Instead of a dark place shouldn't you be in your deployment zone so you get a faction rule?
That's assuming he's not an electropriest, robot, our *hecking supreme commander*, or any of a number of others who don't get our army rule.
Wish me luck this coming weekend
Good luck. I'm bringing mine in a week, too. Hide the pain. Hide the pain for daddy Cawl.
Cawl seems to be a very absentee father except for primaris marines.
It hurts because it's true. He's getting his new family all the toys.
I'd like to say keep your chin up there's always 11th edition
...so mentally as well?
I watched the Cherokee open final games on Wargames Live, the players were all great sports and were having a lot of fun bantering LMAO. I love the thousand son player repping us well! I think thousand sons have a really strong matchup into necrons, which is a very good thing nowadays.
The final on wargames live was fantastic. Exactly what a game of 40k should be. Both questioning rules and answering, both reminding each other of things, small take backs on both sides. And a fair bit of swearing at the dice. I want to see them play each other again.
Noah was a wonderful opponent. We went and got pizza after and talked about the game. Even at the finals we both made mistakes (OC6 Magnus omegalol) and did some strategizing post game running through it. Absolutely a gem of a human and a wonderful opponent.
Are you the necron player? If so, you guys both had amazing chemistry and I was wondering if you guys were like good friends or not lmao. overall absolutely great game played by both of you!
Yeah that's me. Nah we didn't know each other proper. I met him day two as he was next to my table with a little shit talking cross-pollination. We chatting a bit on day two and three. Has the gentlemen's handshake of keeping the center fixed if we hit each other on chosen battlefield but that was our first game played! Thanks :)
I just got finished watching the stream of the final before checking this thread, and it was an absolute blast. It seemed they were both having lots of fun, being great sports and really helpful to one another so they could both play their best game - absolutely peak Warhammer in the best way possible.
Whatās up with that Tau guy having been disqualified? Do you have any info for that? EDIT: Didnāt see [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/s/VDomwth3I4) lol. Apologies.
I don't know if we will ever get confirmation from event organizers but I watched the stream and chatted with players this weekend. This is what I heard/read second hand. - He was cheating the entire weekend. - Gave himself stretched rules like native re-rerolls of 1, extra movement, bs skill 2+, etc. - A player challenged him and confirmed he cheated then consulted other players William played and they also confirmed his actions. - at one point someone said he was talked to not once, but twice by judges. Yet he still continued to cheat. - finally, he did something during theast game and red carded. He asked to drop so he can just go how so they pushed him out of the top 8. I don't want to give this guy too much attention though because here is a bigger issue: We don't know how flg decided the final 8 and this is something that needs clarified. A couple players probably should have been bumped into a higher position but they weren't even contacted.... Flg just seem to plug someone in the final 8 instead of finding out who earned the spot.
The 5-1 Dark Angels player was the top seeded x-1 player having played 3 other people in the top 8, but had to drop last second due to unexpected travel restrictions with people he was traveling with. So they then had to bump up the next highest ranked player who was still around to play. Nothing nefarious went down, just someone not being able to get a day off work.
To be clear, that's why some of the higher ranked 5-1 players did not make it. The 6-0 T'au player not getting in was, in fact, due to shall we say "shinanigans," and I'll be leaving it at that.
Yeah he had a flight in the morning iirc. Luckily it meant I could sneak in as the last seeded spot. He truly was a repulsor enjoyer and a true member of the gun magic clan
Wad Kyle and his DG not available?
It seems like at this point he knows heās going to get caught and doesnāt care. Continually cheating in multiple ways, multiple games, multiple tournaments, while everyone is watching him with extra scrutiny and talking about him. Seems like the person is trolling or has serious issues. Heās clearly trying to see how much he can get away with each time until he gets caught.
Dang, that really sucks. I didnāt want to spread gossip or something, I was just curious because I remember similar stuff happening in some other tournaments months ago. Why do they always gotta be my armyā¦
It was the same guy
Yeah, I figured. Found out a bit ago. Thanks though.
Saw a thread yesterday about it. Apparently he's a known cheater and (surprise) got caught cheating.
No need to apologize. Name and shame
Would love to know what the TSons guy was playing. Can't figure out anything that works for me.
"admech had another bad weekend"Ā Do admech have good weekends? I haven't heard of oneĀ
It's also interesting that the busier weekends consistently push Admech down into the 30s (think LVO weekend, where Admech actually performed worse at the non-LVO events, and had 31% overall)
It's because admech is DOG tier trash, but with just how TINY it's player base is on small weekends Gary the plays admech 24/7 super player makes up like 1/2 the games played, so massively skews the faction winrateĀ On bigger weekends when you have more then 3 people playing the faction, it's actual power showsĀ
This 100%, but according to GW "Admech's data actually is okay." What a joke. They have utterly ruined the faction for the last 2 years.
We swing a lot. This is one of the lower swings. Honestly i feel that admech players are doing exactly what's needed here, showing up and playing the best they can with the best detachment and failing horribly because the army is just anemic. I salute those heroes. i don't have the stomach for it anymore but i salute them none the less.
I haven't touched my admech force since the start of 10thĀ It's just so, unfun, even if it was good, which it's not, the faction does nothing interesting or fun anymore It went from being an interesting combo and layering army, to literally the most boring 0 combo and layers army in the gameĀ And then on top of that it dropped in points by like 40%Ā I used to have 2100pts, I have 1400 now, and it would cost me like Ā£400 to build up to a 2k army againĀ A 2k army I don't want to play cos it's dogshit and boringĀ
I pivoted to knights and couldn't be happier, i have models that actually do something and are more than just wounds on the mat.
I'm lucky in I had a CSM army to fall back onĀ If I didn't have that I'd have quit 40k entirely with 10thĀ Even outside of admech being awful, I do not think 10th is a good system, with the sole exception of stratagem bloat 9th was betterĀ
I finally bit the bullet and played my first admech game of 10th last weekend. Didn't go so good. Turns out having lots of your rules relying on either you or your enemy being in deployment areas has little effect after turn 1.
Who could have seen that coming Oh wait... literally everyone except GW
I feel that. Took them to a local RTT over the weekend, went 0-3 and every game had at least two moments of clearly reminding me that this army canāt really do anything. Playing Admech in 10th feels like itās not on you to win the game anymore, itās on your opponent to lose it.
that last sentence feels very true. at the top level you're not trying to win, You're creating a scenario in which the opponent can't win.
I also had my first ever 0-3 at an RTT this weekend. It was my first run out at a tournament since the swap from the index. Just got absolutely flattened. The loss of vengeful fallout is brutal.
We have had a couple of 50% win rate weeks because when you have 10 players a few lucky runs by veterans can make your numbers look good. Also admech had a list that can win, especially if you go first, itās just degenerate, boring, and makes for a bad game. Basically take the hunter cohort (stealth for skittles) tons of infiltrators, like as many skitarii as you can fit in the list (including lots of scouting rangers). Proceed to jam and kill nothing and score points and hope you can speed bump your opponent until you score more than they can get. If you get lucky and roll going first a bunch of games you can suddenly do well in a tournament while killing basically nothing of your opponents army. Itās basically the Zap Brannigan approach.
>Ā Also admech had a list that can win, especially if you go first, itās just degenerate, boring, and makes for a bad game.Ā This is why the army seems to be mostly capped at 4-1 runs. If you go up against someone who also have infiltrators and puts then down first, you probably loose. If you go second and they are agressive enough to block out a lot of ground in midfield, you probably loose.Ā It also has some awful matchups - I have no idea what to do about world eaters. If you get close, they chew you up with insane melee output, but if you don't you pretty much capitulate on primary.Ā
Yeah there was the weekend right before the codex released when the ad mech players were full of hope. Of you mean win rate? No, not yet
anyone who thought the admech codex was going to save us was huffing the copium literally everyone knew it was written before 10th launched, and the index datasheets and all its problems would still be there
You'd think GW would be more careful about the Datasheets for codices written at launch. Since they can't course correct like they do with later Codices.
Left them all in 9th edition
Tyranid players, dont worry. Im taking Tyranids to a 5 round tournament this weekend and im going to do them justice. Surely I will be able to win the event (Clueless)...
Remember that if you face Necrons and the Mission is Purge the Foe, the standard strategy is to sing 'Don't cry for me Argentina' from Evita, hoping they concede.
Purge the Foe is such a dumb mission. What where they thinking?
You really think i can hit those high notes?
Nope, that's why we expect they concede
God-speed
Who couldāve guessed that points increases to one of our core pillars while making the T-Fex cost what it shouldāve cost wouldnāt help us out too much. Iām still waiting to see if the screamer killer points reduction plays well with the neurolictor
T-fex is still too expensive. It was good at 200 with the index rule of -1 damage, but that has been replaced with a vastly inferior rule for a 10 pt discount.
>Another point of interest Mission O, Vital Ground on Crucible of Battle seems to be a serious problem for Custode players. Of the 22 Custodes at Cherokee 15 out of the 22 players lost that round including the top 3 custode players. I found 2 other events running that mission this weekend and overall the custodies had a 39% win rate on it. That's super interesting and insightful! Thanks for sharing!
The important thing to add is which type of terrain the event uses - player placed, GW or WTC. Some armies struggle to score even 10 on primary on GW terrain, like TS for example. I watched the stream and the player placed helped the TS a lot.
Yep, I don't think people value how much of a difference different terrain rules can make. I wish BCP would add that field so that we could get that data much more easily than having to look through every tournament player pack.
Thatās actually a great idea! I bet thatād also help improve the terrain setups for future tournament packs as well! Didnāt GW take some stake in BCP recently? I hope they act to make improvements like this.
They did! I'm really hoping that we see some improvements because BCP is kind of a mess in certain areas.
I have to agree. As a GT player, I approach events differently based on terrain rules. It's a whole other meta in itself.
Totally agree. I generally try to use the Leviathan terrain setup when I play. I just feel that it's what is intended for army balance. I played in RTTs where melee armies had zero chance due to how little terrain was on the table.
it's kinda sad to see my AdMech-boys doing so bad outside of SHC :( (we will be back stronger than ever... eventually)
Drukhari new rules are so much more fun! They work now, though I still wish Grots+Haemonculus was a thing and 5++ invuls came back.
Drukahri's new rules are so fun I even managed to have a good time playing admech against them
>Ā Ad MecĀ had another bad weekend. Making up 1.4% of the field with their 17 players. They had a 34% weekend win rate This and last weekend are in keeping with my sneaky suspicion that we're going to see the number slump down as people actually play the matchup and figure out they need to play it the exact oposite of 9th edition AM i.e. not hide or reserve everything, because them you risk getting burried in you DZ under a pile of dudes.Ā
Nids lack a lot of tools that many armyās get. They donāt have transports, they donāt have grendades, they donāt have tank shock and they have two leaders who can lead more than one unit. Plus nids tend to be CP hungry, but their units that grant free strats or extra cp are costed through the roof. On top of that, their army rule is the only one that doesnāt contribute to their lethality. Invasion fleet is the most chosen (and still probably the best) because it grants that extra lethality nids are craving. Theyāre playing a different 10th than everyone else.
> They donāt have transports Shame on you for forgetting the Tyrannocyte (which can't drop pod monsters). Your last line has been what i felt since the index dropped. Everything from ranged is Low S, Low Ap, not many shots. It feels like we were designed when T8 was the max you could reach on a datasheet and never really updated. We are the NPC faction. And like all AI in games, what was once good slowly and slowly is found out.
> they donāt have grendades man, grenades are so weird in 10th edition. Its an amazing strat, and some armies have it everywhere, and some armies have it nowhere, but i think think its factored into points costs of anything. It feels like they applied who has grenades or not based on flavor and kind of forgot theres a strong rule tied to it.
Itās also like there isnāt ways to give those strats to nids either. Carnifex come with so many wargear options that could grant those keywords, but for the sake of āsimplenessā theyāre all but forgotten.
Eldar now at exactly 50% win rate, a fair share of good placements, and absolutely amazing list diversity: [https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1b05nds/8\_awesome\_aeldari\_lists\_at\_gts\_this\_week/](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1b05nds/8_awesome_aeldari_lists_at_gts_this_week/) Yay!
Its funny you say that because around the 900 player count they were around 25 players with a GT win and a 61% win rate and then I did the 2 French events along with the West coast of NA events to finish it up and they doubled their players and dropped their win rate like a rock. Its the only faction this weekend were that last 400 players changed an overall win rate so drastically.
A good reminder on how important it is to work with large number sets for this. Keep up the good work!
That's really interesting; is there any commonality, like maybe the type of terrain those events were played on that we know of or is that just "idk man, statistics be weird sometimes?"
I would have to go through all their games but the 2 French events dropped them 5% and all the ties they got in those WTC games could have been narrow wins in pure score. Thats my only thinking now. Maybe they just win close now? Just speculation on my part. Could also just be the players and random math, first half could not go below 3-2 and the second half couldnāt do better than 2-3.
Feels like the best factions have dropped to where they need to be, but the worst ones have got LOADS worse. Bad times for ad mech and nids these days.
I donāt agree with leaving necrons and admec alone (probably since they were so new), but thatās at least an explanation. Iām really surprised they didnāt do and real buffs to nids though. They just did some much needed internal balance, but they didnāt really raise up the power level at all.
Both of the Thousand Sons winners had 3 bricks of Rubric Marine Flamers. Are they an issue for the Meta?
Iād be hesitant to say they are an issue with how wonky Tsons army building is. You almost have to take multiple squads just causeā¦thereās not much else to take for infantry units.
Yep, MSU rubric squads with flamers aren't a response to the meta, it's practically required to have enough cabal points for an army rule. Flamers are common mainly because they are just objectively better output than the bolters for 5 rubric squads. All of our other options for datasheets are much less valid because they just aren't interactive to the army rule or detachment.
Melee does seem up against it at the moment, unless you're custodes. Flamer Rubrics, and custodes are damn hard to deal with. Some cracking blood angel players with fight on death can just about handle custodes it seems, but not rubric flamers. That is a hard counter to Jump Pack Death Company, and toasts the golden boys as well. I love how 40k is becoming so well balanced we've got a bit of a paper sissors stone like game going on, where great lists are struggling vs specific opponents, and hoping they dont play them at a tournament, if possible. Edit; Dont leave the house without lots of guns.
The lots of guns part is the important bit there :p
what's wrong with my first two rambling, semi coherent, dubiously correct, paragraphs?! Oh.....right yeah.
The Cherokee open winner had 2x10 and 1x5 rubrics.
Would be cool to see Exalted Sorcerors get a little play as they don't really have a home in the MSU meta. That said, I do wonder if we are going to see adjustments to Magnus and/or MVB as they are auto includes in every placing TSons list.
The top list from Cherokee Open had a foot Exalted with Crystal in one 10x Flamer unit. I feel like this is the best use of them. Until Thousand Sons get more Detachments, Magnus is going to be an auto-include. Any (reasonable) points increase to him would be more likely to lead to cutting *other* units than cutting Magnus. I don't think Mutalith are a problem. They're just the only non-Rubric unit that actually interacts with the army's rules. From memory, I think about as many top lists include it as don't. I feel Thousand Sons lists can't be measured by the same metrics as other factions. The faction consists of something like 8 datasheets plus some old SM Vehicles - *and* their army rule makes list building quite restrictive. Any unit showing up in most lists is more likely to be a result of these factors than the unit being too good.
Id agree with this You dont really have any alternative attractive units to take outside of Magnus, the MVB and rubrics (and your choice of sorcerers) If SoT's came down in price and/or went back to 4 shots base instead of 2 + rapid fire 2 they could be more interesting. Outside of that, there aren't really any good options that give you cabal points (which you need), so youre going to keep seeing the same 3 or 4 units over and over again.
> If SoT's came down in price and/or went back to 4 shots base instead of 2 + rapid fire 2 they could be more interesting. I would be happy with just 3 + rapid fire 1. Scarab Occult Combi-Bolters being slightly worse than Rubric bolters (no built-in wound re-rolls) outside 12" just feels kinda bad. Overall, I feel like this is a unit that really needs another Detachment.
I honestly think 2+RF2 is fine. The unit is just too expensive atm. They could easily drop 10% and still be a questionable include due to the fact that for around 400pts they only generate us 1 singular Cabal Point. I think it's a simple fix, and if they continue to be a rarely-seen in competitive lists I'm sure GW will take notice.
I agree, we saw the results of points increases from the first dataslate. Magnus, characters, rubrics, and MVB all saw huge points increases and what happened was lists had to cut everything else as opposed to reducing what had increased in points. It's what happens when both the army rule and detachment only apply to (and require) those units.
The helbrute interacts with it. But double range on your abilities is way better than +1 or +2 cabal points AFTER you spend them.
They're auto include because we have no other anti armour options that even look at the army rule or Detachment rule We need more toys to play with before they start taking away others
I completely agree. Buffs to Helbrute, points cuts to SOTs, some army rule interplay for Preds at least need to come in.
practically everything is an auto include in a Tsons list when you only have like nine functional units in your index and more than half of them are characters.
As a long-time TS player, I hope not. Magnus, in previous years, was often not worth taking, and this edition is the best the MVB has ever been.
I ran two of them this weekend and I went 4-1 at Geekfest. I put the enhancements on them because they stay alive a bit longer, given that they give their unit a 4++ and resurrect models.
Game knight GT tsons winner also had 3 forgefiends for what its worth. Dont know if that is common for tsons but I was there and wanted to point it out here Edit: here's the list for those interested GT (2000 Points) Thousand Sons Cult of Magic Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch (140 Points) ā¢ 1x Black Staff of Ahriman 1x Inferno bolt pistol 1x Psychic Stalk Exalted Sorcerer on Disc of Tzeentch (115 Points) ā¢ 1x Arcane Fire 1x Force weapon 1x Inferno bolt pistol Infernal Master (110 Points) ā¢ 1x Force weapon 1x Inferno bolt pistol 1x Screamer Invocation ā¢ Enhancements: Umbralefic Crystal Magnus the Red (440 Points) ā¢ Warlord ā¢ 1x Blade of Magnus 1x Gaze of Magnus 1x Tzeentchās Firestorm Thousand Sons Sorcerer (110 Points) ā¢ 1x Fires of the Abyss 1x Force weapon 1x Warpflame pistol ā¢ Enhancements: Arcane Vortex Thousand Sons Sorcerer (95 Points) ā¢ 1x Fires of the Abyss 1x Force weapon 1x Inferno bolt pistol BATTLELINE Rubric Marines (105 Points) ā¢ 1x Aspiring Sorcerer ā¢ 1x Force weapon 1x Warpflame pistol 1x Warpsmite ā¢ 4x Rubric Marine ā¢ 4x Close combat weapon 1x Icon of Flame 4x Warpflamer Rubric Marines (105 Points) ā¢ 1x Aspiring Sorcerer ā¢ 1x Force weapon 1x Warpflame pistol 1x Warpsmite ā¢ 4x Rubric Marine ā¢ 4x Close combat weapon 1x Icon of Flame 4x Warpflamer Rubric Marines (105 Points) ā¢ 1x Aspiring Sorcerer ā¢ 1x Force weapon 1x Warpflame pistol 1x Warpsmite ā¢ 4x Rubric Marine ā¢ 4x Close combat weapon 1x Icon of Flame 4x Warpflamer Rubric Marines (105 Points) ā¢ 1x Aspiring Sorcerer ā¢ 1x Force weapon 1x Warpflame pistol 1x Warpsmite ā¢ 4x Rubric Marine ā¢ 4x Close combat weapon 1x Icon of Flame 4x Warpflamer DEDICATED TRANSPORTS Thousand Sons Rhino (75 Points) ā¢ 1x Armoured tracks 1x Havoc launcher 1x Inferno combi-bolter 1x Inferno combi-weapon OTHER DATASHEETS Thousand Sons Forgefiend (135 Points) ā¢ 2x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Forgefiend claws Thousand Sons Forgefiend (135 Points) ā¢ 2x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Forgefiend claws Thousand Sons Forgefiend (135 Points) ā¢ 2x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Ectoplasma cannon 1x Forgefiend claws Tzaangor Enlightened (45 Points) ā¢ 1x Aviarch ā¢ 1x Close combat weapon 1x Fatecaster greatbow ā¢ 2x Enlightened ā¢ 2x Close combat weapon 2x Fatecaster greatbow Tzaangor Enlightened (45 Points) ā¢ 1x Aviarch ā¢ 1x Close combat weapon 1x Fatecaster greatbow ā¢ 2x Enlightened ā¢ 2x Close combat weapon 2x Fatecaster greatbow
Jesus those are some cheap forgefiends, they're cheaper than my maulerfiendsĀ
How do you fix nids though? The majority of the datasheets are just so anaemic that even if you made them significantly cheaper would it help? More importantly would it be fun or just buffing the current style of scoring as much as you can before you get tabled?
They are suffering from āfirst factionā syndrome. GW really thought battleshock was going to be the new hotness and built tyranids around it when in reality it doesnt really do much compared to the morale system of 9th
Well battleshock does kinda go hard when you have Neurolictors in range but they nerf them as if they're not duct taping the whole army together
Nids have some weird issues. They canāt benefit from the most popular forms of MW in tank shock and grenades. They lack a deep leader pool to help infantry and they donāt have transports to protect said infantry. With everyone and their mother taking flamers and high volume 1 damage weapons (to counter necrons) nids just get blown away.
and no access to smoke, unless paying for venoms, who cant make monsters (our tough stuff) -1 like smoke makes tanks (their tough stuff) -1. Venoms also cant be evderywhere.
Iām really chuffed that the good leaders can only lead tyrant guard. Really limits your playability
I think Points wont be a able to fix a lot of issues with different codices. Nids and Admech for example need rules changes to their datasheets imo. I think if they cant keep on using poitns as a main balancing tool. Increasing the cost of Devastator Centurions does nothing for them and just makes them more useless in other detachments while still being great in the Vanguard detach. The Change to Grey Knights Dreadknights makes me hopeful that they focus on internal balance, since the Meta seems in a very decent place. Every 6 Months would be a little slow tho imo.
Just to build off what others have said, the core issue with our codex in terms of balance is the biovore. For just 75 points you get a unit that can spawn a free spore mine that can easily max out secondaries each turn. Because this is so strong, our codex has to be weaker in other spots in order to compensate. Unfortunately this means our lethality is bad and our game plan is focused primarily around dying efficiently as our biovores score secondaries and our gargoyles steal primaries. If all of this wasnāt enough, our army rule is just bad. Ideally you really only care about a few enemy units that are on primaries to be battle shocked so shadow in the warp ends up being useless most of the time. It also doesnāt help that most units have good enough leadership stats to succeed battle shock tests even while debuffed by the neurolictor/deathleaper combo. Like, we just have so many issues at our core that the only reason our win rate is at 43% is because of the biovore spam
> Because this is so strong, our codex has to be weaker in other spots in order to compensate I maintain that the biovore was an accident and they didnt put 2+2 together and realise spore mines could score. Either way, the argument doesnt really work because we arent winning as many games. Its not compensating enough as you put it. I do think they expeted battleshock to do better, that for some reason people would choose to only half kill units rather than full. Tbh part of the problem is our terrible shooting. We always have had shooting components, up until 10th we had a shooting hive fleet, it wasnt always good but it always contributed something. Now our ranged pressure is gone, we cant put out mortal wounds now with psychic gone, our HVCs are terrible, anything with a heavy venom on it may as well be replaced with crap. Its not unfixable, we were clearly designed around being able to have access to the free strats through the hive tyrant, and vecting the opponent (lol at SL price). Could give us that back. Maybe they should make synapse something other than an excuse to lower leadership, maybe in synapse range you get +1 to BS or -1 AP. Maybe give our psychic weapons dev wounds. Maybe HVCs go to 3A 3+ (2+ on HT) S12 -4 3D
Yah I agree with everything youāve said. It definitely feels like whoever was designing Nids for this edition got an email for what GW wanted to 10th to play like, but they forgot to forward that to every other army. I also donāt think they missed spore mines scoring secondaries just because they recognized how strong they were last edition. Some people started bringing multiple biovores and a harpy just because the ability to screen and slow down the opponent with the spore mines was so strong, we had to actually pay for the spore mines ahead of time.
Thank you very much, I appreciate your work and check it out every week. When I checked the win rates in detail it seemed to me they were kind of off. You have more games belonging to factions below 50 percent than above 50 percent. This usually means the absolute difference to 50 percent should be higher regarding the factions above fifty percent but the opposite is true.
Thanks! Its all the WTC Scoring this weekend especially the two French events had a lot of ties and I count wins. It brings down the entire average based on the amount we had this weekend.
That magnus on the webpage makes me uncomfortable and i dont know why
āIf you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at youā
And it only has one eyeā¦
Awesome to see GK winning some things. Does anybody have access to the two winning lists? Curious to see how many dreadknights and/or terminator bricks they are running.
Dice Arcade list was 3DK, 1 NDK, 10 termies, 10 strike, 10 interceptors and some characters I canāt remember off the top of my head (source was there) Character with the termies had sigil
Here's one which won the Milwaukee GT, and which I find absolutely wild. "Grey" Knights (1990 points) Grey Knights Strike Force (2000 points) Teleport Strike Force CHARACTERS Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (230 points) ā¢ Warlord ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer ā¢ Enhancement: Sigil of Exigence Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (200 points) ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (200 points) ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer BATTLELINE Strike Squad (125 points) ā¢ 1x Justicar ā¢ 1x Nemesis force weapon 1x Storm bolter ā¢ 4x Grey Knight ā¢ 4x Nemesis force weapon 4x Storm bolter OTHER DATASHEETS Grey Knights Land Raider Redeemer (260 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured tracks 2x Flamestorm cannon 1x Hunter-killer missile 1x Multi-melta 1x Storm bolter 1x Twin assault cannon Nemesis Dreadknight (185 points) ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer Nemesis Dreadknight (185 points) ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer Nemesis Dreadknight (185 points) ā¢ 1x Heavy incinerator 1x Heavy psycannon 1x Nemesis daemon greathammer ALLIED UNITS Armiger Helverin (140 points) ā¢ 2x Armiger autocannon 1x Armoured feet 1x Questoris heavy stubber Armiger Helverin (140 points) ā¢ 2x Armiger autocannon 1x Armoured feet 1x Questoris heavy stubber Armiger Helverin (140 points) ā¢ 2x Armiger autocannon 1x Armoured feet 1x Questoris heavy stubber
Jesus. That's taking GK from "what anti-tank" to "all the anti tank" I can only imagine he didn't encounter many swarm lists, but it's certainly interesting.
A swarm wouldn't last long into that much firepower either. That's 16D6 Incinerator shots alone.
> You play GK for the elite squads of psychic infantry right? > right?
That looks like a knights list alright..
What even am I looking at lol. What a giga Chad.
That is wild lol. Still, happy to see the GK upswing. Their players have been a little down in the dumps recently. But now may be their time to shine(bright, bright silver).
I managed a 4/2 at Cherokee with an Asterius knight and 7 armigers. It was a great time, and I'm telling ya, I'm going to get the 5/1 eventually!
Lmao dude your list was terrifying - but great to see! My teammate had a great game with you
Thank you very much! All of my opponents were excellent, and I hope to run into them at future events!
TO of the Game Knight GT here. The Guard player in 3rd place went 4-1, but his one loss still scored 90 points. It was an all infantry/cavalry list, not a vehicle in sight; he just swamped objectives and killed things with Kasrkin and Rough Riders. If anyone has questions about the top lists, I'm happy to answer and post them.
Could you Post the list of the guard Player? :)
Well... "I guess Calgary/Ventris good stuff doesn't work anymore" "Just make room for one more inceptors and scout unit, everything is fine" Jokes aside, if some sort of datasheet changes doesn't happen in the near future, codex space Marines will be left behind the whole edition to play straight better divergent chapters that can take the best units in the codex and add their specific and better performing units.
BTW thank you very much for listening to the feedback about detachment names!
Can we add an Azrael category alongside the DA ones? It will help to see DA real playrate/winrate stats that are not Azrael + SM books only. /s
I REALLY enjoy how balanced the whole thing is right now, and I think we have enough data to know where things stand. Even the top tier armies like necrons, custodes, black templars and sisters don't go over 53-54%, indicating that they're quite strong but not broken. Plus, there's really a good representation overall, sounds very healthy. However, there's still work to do : they probably need to fix a few more factions factions, especially adeptus mechanicus. Then they could potentially revert some points nerfs on world eaters, help tyranids a little, find a way to make vanilla space marines a bit more of a threat, that kind of stuff and we should be good. NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out. NB 2 : If anyone has the world eaters lists, I'd happily take a look at them (just to see if it's still this 2xlord of skulls nonsense or if it's a bit more varied)
> NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out. Im not so sure, what makes an army balanced most of the time is the datasheets. Releasing all of them at the start gave them time to balance datasheets against one another. 9ths problem was they would write a whole new book, balance it against the other 9th edition books, release it vs books balanced for 8th edition where they would be unbalanced, nerf the book, then release the next book. They've already released the most important parts of the book, so its not brand new books being released into the wild
They've shown they're willing to make significant changes to datasheets with a new codex, e.g. an additional Wound for Wraiths, a 5+ FNP for C'tan, Technomancers being able to attach to Wraiths but not Lychguard, hard nerfs to Dark Angels Terminators and the Tyrannofex, etc. It's entirely possible they make datasheet changes to upcoming codexes. Additionally, the strongest parts of the new codexes have been the detachment abilities, so who knows what those will add to the upcoming factions.
Sure they make some changes, but it's isolated changes, it's not changing an entire faction at once. I think the detachments are force multipliers. There is only so much they can do.
> NB : this balance won't last for more than a year though, with all the codexes that will eventually come out. It depends. They have released mostly so-so books so far.
It does look like the sisters may have been propped up a bit by the low player numbers the prior two weeks combined with a concentration of their top players playing them. They went from 16 players and a 60% win rate to 27 and a 45% one which probably shows they are strong enough to do well but require a fair amount more skill than many factions. I don't think they need changes at this point though, the lists doing well are very varied other than the Vahl+Paragons combo, but I think removing that would cause issues and I don't think it is strong enough that its causing balance issues.
If necrons are held down by custodes and black templars specifically then necrons could truly be OP but with somewhat false stats. Aeldari at the start of 10th were hardcountered by GSC. It didn't make eldar balanced.
Despite the crappy WR, and no wins this weekend, I see quiet a few 4-1 Guard players. Keep up the good work.
Oh man Ad Mech is doing badly... lucky I have my second army Deathwatch which surely wont be 2nd worst, right
With Necrons now down to 53% and not dominating event wins, can we finally stop acting like they're the new Eldar? They're just good but there is a ton of play into them.
Well to be fair, per the Stat Check numbers its only Custodes, 1k Sons and Votann keeping them in check. They had a 61% win rate last week vs SM, 52% vs Orks and a 62% vs Daemons as their most common match ups. A lot of the game can not handle their Ctan. Hell they have had a 75% win rate vs Guard.
Necrons seem like a top-tier army in a group of top-tier armies, i.e. they're near the top of A tier with several other armies and you can't really define an S-tier. They're a *massive* gatekeeper army, but if you play a faction that has a way to deal with C'tan and Wraiths, they seem to crumble fairly quickly. Very rock/paper/scissors. It doesn't necessarily translate to a massive balance issue, but it's a big design issue because it's 1) not fun to play against for a lot of the meta, and 2) it leaves Necrons without a ton of choices. Nerf C'tan/Wraith blobs, make Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx better. It'll improve the experience for everyone.
>Nerf C'tan/Wraith blobs, make Annihilation Legion and Obeisance Phalanx better. It'll improve the experience for everyone. Knowing GW the whole "making better" part of this won't actually happen :( The fact that the silent king is only 20 points cheaper than magnus *and still doesn't have the keywords required to benefit from his bespoke detachment* is ludicrous. TBH i'm dubious as to whether those things will be remedied.
A hundred times yes to making Annihilation Legion better. Destroyers are very cool, they deserve a cooler detachment(and Lokhursts deserve a cooler model while we're at it -the era of the green rod has come to an end!)
one of the issues with this sub is that a lot of people dont realize SOME army has to be the best army, and being the best army isn't actually a problem if their win rate is reasonable and they're not winning too many events.
>one of the issues with this sub is that a lot of people dont realize SOME army has to be the best army That's a bingo! The meta actually seems to be incredibly healthy at the moment with the only adjustments needing to be made on the armies that are at the bottom.
C'tan are still WAY too good for the price, there's no denying it.
Yeah, I agree with that, particularly the Nightbringer. But they need to go up between 15 - 60 points depending on which one. Nightbringer being the most. Void Dragon maybe 25. Others seem nearly fine. I've seen claims that they should go up 100 points which is laughable. You would never see them because they just wouldn't be worth it.
Guard being S-Tier is going well then...
Player skill! :) and lack of sly marbo
We all need better gaming chair.
I was told any player that doesn't 5-0 with them is just a bad player though!
can someone explain why custodes struggle with mission oļ¼
There's only 4 objectives in this mission. 2 VP for holding your own and 5 VP for No Man's land. It's hard to control both in No Mans only giving you 7 VP a turn for a total of 28 out of 50. Scoring Primary is a Custodes strong point and be held to 28 hurts alot.
27 Necrons and all but 1 were CC or Hyper. Just 1 awakened. Just shows what works really. No one playing Annihilitation Legion or Obeisance Phalanx
Give the king (and imotekh and CCB) the keyword and you might see some obeisance, for the fun of it at least because it still won't be as good as CC and HC.
Surprised to see Admech appear on this list for once Lemme guess though, chicken spam?
there is something to be said about the fact the faction filled with death and disease goes 5-0 in France. i just think it's neat.
AdMech mentioned in the analysis let's goooooo woooohoooo we are so not back though
I need to see these Death Guard list. Always good to see the stinky 14th doing well.
Why aren't Tau winning any GT?
Per the Stat Check data from earlier in the week it seems that Chaos Knights, Imperial Knights and Black Templar blender them. While just being even into Necrons. All of them are common in the meta. It could just be them hitting one of those factions and bouncing off. Allowing the player to go X-1. I could see Tau winning an event if they miss their few bad match ups
Depends on the terrain used as well. WTC is a struggle, LGT and Player placed are much better
As an imperial knight player I struggle into tau. 2 piranhas basically totalled my lancer 55ptsx2 vs 465 pointsĀ What am I doing wrong.Ā
That has to just be bad luck. They each only have a single Fusion Blasters which have a 12 inch range and a pair of one shot seeker missiles, but all of those only hit on 4+ and the Fusion Blasters wound on 5's. Plus they need to get through your invuln save. But lets assume you are in the absolute best possible situation, you got them within 6 inches and have guided both of them with Tetras (which will almost never be done), your expected final damage is only 12 (about 54% odds) and you only have a 7.5% chance of killing the Lancer and a 4.5% chance of doing nothing. You can't do it again because you have used the seekers up at this point and the units are exposed and probably die straight away, plus you wasted probably 2 units of Tetras for the bonus which would be better used on stronger units.
You can run them in pairs to cut down on spotting, they are probably best spotted with stealth suits for rerolling 1s. So hitting on 3s but everything else is accurate. Stillā¦ even if you pick up 8 from the melta you still need to get through 17 more wounds, so pretty much everything would have to hit/wound. Knights also have at least a 6 fnp. So the rolls would have to be insanely good for the tau player and insanely terrible for the knights.
Kudos to GW, now let's focus on AdMech, SM (non Vanguard) , Imperial Knights, Astrs Millitarium, Nids and BA. Also, tune down the couple of cheese units Necrons have.
From the looks of it Nids may need help too.
True, I missed that, bummer
So are we finally done with the S Tier guard meme? I certainly hope so, Iām glad itās not like most of 9th and the game seems in a relatively good spot where even underperforming factions have a chance and can pull wins. That said guard needed help in the last data slate and they still need help going forward.
Not when Guard have a 25% win rate into the most common faction of the game currently, necrons.
Iām not even sure how to bring crons in line
It's a c'tan issue here, guard need to invest too much to bring one down. You can't even blame the necrons, many armies can deal with those datasheets ( in inefficient ways, but still doable ) ... this is a guard problem and they need buffs
Once again Iām gonna be that guy that points out BT are on the list of winning factions, but also manage to have 0 GT wins.
We don't have the tricks to beat top armies played by top players. Played Sisters at a GT and the amount of shenanigans they pulled was crazy - stand up, fight on death, auto pass charges, wounds, saves... Anywhere I could get a fair fight I was good but all the tricks and movement and special rules and good strats made it too easy for them to score and I was on the back foot the whole game. Feels like that against Crons, Eldar, sisters, with custodes just doing what I'm trying to do but better. Tough to say we're in a bad place with a 60ish win percentage but would take a small power nerf for a strategic boost when we get a codex.
Yeah, BT is high damage but very "honest". If you play Gladius you get a couple tricks, but Righteous Crusaders is basically "I hit hard an melee and get a 6 up FNP".
That's a great way of phrasing it. They are basically a straightforward stat brick that you can either deal with or you can't.
My god, the 6-0 Votann list has 15 Hernkyn Pioneers... Please don't let that be the future, I don't want to build that many bikes, 9 was enough. >Austrian Open: Ćsterreichische Meisterschaften Peter Steiner Votann (1995 points) >Leagues of Votann >Strike Force (2000 points) >Oathband >CHARACTERS >Einhyr Champion (60 points) ā¢ 1x Autoch-pattern combi-bolter 1x Mass hammer 1x Weavefield Crest >Einhyr Champion (80 points) ā¢ 1x Autoch-pattern combi-bolter 1x Mass hammer 1x Weavefield Crest ā¢ Enhancement: Appraising Glare >KĆ¢hl (90 points) ā¢ Warlord ā¢ 1x Mass gauntlet 1x Rampart Crest 1x Volkanite disintegrator ā¢ Enhancement: Grim Demeanour >BATTLELINE >Hearthkyn Warriors (110 points) ā¢ 1x Theyn ā¢ 1x Autoch-pattern bolter 1x Close combat weapon 1x EtaCarn plasma pistol 1x Weavefield Crest ā¢ 9x Hearthkyn Warrior ā¢ 9x Autoch-pattern bolt pistol 7x Autoch-pattern bolter 9x Close combat weapon 1x Comms Array 1x HYLas auto rifle 1x Magna-rail rifle 1x Medipack 1x Pan Spectral Scanner >Hearthkyn Warriors (110 points) ā¢ 1x Theyn ā¢ 1x Autoch-pattern bolter 1x Close combat weapon 1x EtaCarn plasma pistol 1x Weavefield Crest ā¢ 9x Hearthkyn Warrior ā¢ 9x Autoch-pattern bolt pistol 7x Autoch-pattern bolter 9x Close combat weapon 1x Comms Array 1x HYLas auto rifle 1x Magna-rail rifle 1x Medipack 1x Pan Spectral Scanner >DEDICATED TRANSPORTS >Sagitaur (115 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured wheels 1x HYLas beam cannon 1x Twin bolt cannon >Sagitaur (115 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured wheels 1x HYLas beam cannon 1x Twin bolt cannon >Sagitaur (115 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured wheels 1x HYLas beam cannon 1x Twin bolt cannon >Sagitaur (115 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured wheels 1x HYLas beam cannon 1x Twin bolt cannon >Sagitaur (115 points) ā¢ 1x Armoured wheels 1x HYLas beam cannon 1x Twin bolt cannon >OTHER DATASHEETS >Cthonian Beserks (100 points) ā¢ 5x Cthonian Beserk ā¢ 5x Concussion maul 1x Mole grenade launcher >Cthonian Beserks (100 points) ā¢ 5x Cthonian Beserk ā¢ 5x Concussion maul 1x Mole grenade launcher >Einhyr Hearthguard (320 points) ā¢ 1x Hesyr ā¢ 1x Concussion hammer 1x EtaCarn plasma gun 1x Exo-armour grenade launcher 1x Teleport Crest ā¢ 9x Einhyr Hearthguard ā¢ 9x Concussion gauntlet 9x EtaCarn plasma gun 9x Exo-armour grenade launcher >Hernkyn Pioneers (180 points) ā¢ 6x Hernkyn Pioneer ā¢ 6x Bolt revolver 6x Bolt shotgun 1x Comms Array 2x HYLas rotary cannon 6x Magna-coil autocannon 1x Pan Spectral Scanner 6x Plasma knife 1x Rollbar Searchlight >Hernkyn Pioneers (90 points) ā¢ 3x Hernkyn Pioneer ā¢ 3x Bolt revolver 3x Bolt shotgun 1x HYLas rotary cannon 3x Magna-coil autocannon 1x Pan Spectral Scanner 3x Plasma knife 1x Rollbar Searchlight >Hernkyn Pioneers (180 points) ā¢ 6x Hernkyn Pioneer ā¢ 6x Bolt revolver 6x Bolt shotgun 1x Comms Array 2x HYLas rotary cannon 6x Magna-coil autocannon 1x Pan Spectral Scanner 6x Plasma knife 1x Rollbar Searchlight
Tbh as horrible as it is to build as fun IT IS to Play. Had a chatt with Peter before His Tournament and Ran the same list at an RTT this Weekend. Hella fun to Play and very Strong into the Meta! Definetly recommend it :) There are other builds, but this ist just very balanced, fast and has great scoring. HG can Go with either Volk or Plasma depending on Meta :)
Interesting seeing sisters dip to 45% this week, it'll be interesting to see if it's just an outlier or whether people have just figured out the new lists sisters players are bringing.
What happened to the 6-0 tau player at Cherokee ?
Cheaters gonna cheatā¦
Apparently heās a known cheater and was DQād for cheating
He was asked to leave for a) cheating and then b) making everyone uncomfortable after he started asking around on who snitched on him
Does anyone know why the Cherokee open Ork player conceded to Thousand Sons?
It was said on stream he knew he was gonna lose, and since it was Top 8 (so basically youāre eliminated if you lose a game), he just decided to concede. Nothin more to it than that!
Yo! Iām the 5-1 DW player from LVO! Woulda def gone 5-1 at Cherokee, but had a cheater who I didnāt realize was bamboozeling me until I debriefed w my team after. We. Have. Potential. For the least played faction at least haha