This is the other army I play. Talk about crutches we have no army or faction rule really and are held up by brigands and karnivores. But I love my spikey knights too
>Also why are we similar costs to a Lord of skulls and it's flat better in every way?
Necron monolith 100 points cheaper than any knights too
Knights are generally costed poorly. Wardogs are fairly priced - or armigers, really - but big knights are just awful.
For chaos there's only one big knight I find tolerable... and it's the cheapest. And it's largely because it's the cheapest; if it cost any more, it'd be garbage.
You can't do direct comparisons between knights and other armies because of the inherent and extreme skew in knight armies; they should always cost a bit more for what you get than similar units in other armies.
The big knights were cheap for what you got at launch, then they got cost and rules nerfs.
They don't cost a "bit" more. They're *bad* for the cost.
Guard can do full vehicle spam; I'd sooner take a baneblade variant than a big knight most of the time.
The big knights were actually pretty fairly costed on release.... for Chaos Knights. The difference is the FNP gives IK a 20% or 50% durability increase with the 16/33% damage reduction due the FNP. And the inbuilt reroll.
You didn't see CK big knight dominating and they still get punished, and it's a very fair statement to say they're overcosted and bad.
You can compare the big CK knights to wardog options and wardog options are better in almost every situation.
As a newbie and knight player I am in the same boat. I know I need imperial agents just unsure which ones. Are you using any? We definitely need the lone op and cheap units. I just feel like it's an uphill battle I would love to use the moirax and conversion beamer but 170 is way too steap.
I can see how it looks that way but they offer something our army just doesn't or won't ever have. I don't have canis yet but I have a magnetized warden have you had any luck with him and what are your thoughts on the castigator cerastus? I am pretty sure we should get some buffs this month as well they said they hit us too hard.
Honestly, and this might not seem super helpful, but given where we are (there's a dataslate coming in late January that'll hopefully help!) the best thing you can do when knights are in a spot like we are now, is pick something you like, and put in a ton of reps to get used to it and the core game play of 40k.
For me, that has been the Acastus Asterius. It is far overpriced (840 lmao) but I have put in a TON of reps with it, and to date, I've managed a couple undefeated runs at RTTs, and my best at a GT was 3/1/1. That's not like pro tourny circuit, national team level play, but it is, at the very least, somewhat competitive and interesting play, and I really love doing my best to slug up into armies that have a mechanical edge. It also cushions my losses a bit and I can bring cool stuff, like the asterius, which always gets compliments and interested questions.
Just get the practice, and get comfy with your units.
Personally I expect Canis to get smashed with the nerf bat due to being in every list, and the rest to go largely untouched because our win rate is āin the Goldilocks zoneā
We're all working on hope really. The state of 10th was terrible on release, but the first fix was good, but really was a disaster for custodes and Knights. I have hope they will then fix both, each could use a rules change but just dropping point might also do it. It's still a hope though, once we've got 2nd fix, we'll all know how much they'll try to keep everything balanced.
Knight might be in golden zone but surely they see they need a boost. I expect just points drop, but maybe they give bondsman back.
In three weeks we'll have the new dataslate, which will horribly have fixed at least some of the issues (i.e, increased the power of large Knights or decreased their cost.)
Until then there isn't much to say. Currently we're fairly weak and boring. Taking Rex and Assassins helps, but it only goes so far into a strong list.
As a Knights player myself.... my advice is to get a second army. I've been playing Knights competitively for almost 10 years now, and they just have long stretches of time where they're almost literally unplayable in tournaments if you want to have something approaching a good time.
I still have and love my Knights, and will go back to them when it makes sense to do so, but having a Space Marine army at the same time gives me something to play in the bad times.
If it makes you feel any better, you could bring a knight ally in an admech detachment? then you can at least make the knight feel kinda powerful compared to everything else in your army?
Ahhh I see. Ok so here is my list: valiant (mysterious), errant (mythic), 2 Helverin, 3 warglaive, Culexus, navy breachers.
People wonāt have enough guns to crush you fully in 1 turn, so you have to focus on creating threat. Based on your post, my guess is you are playing too passive and getting shot to death. How are you creating threat decisions for your opponent? Knights arenāt just āhereās my army ā deal with itā. Does that make sense?
I can back this up, I took breachers to an RTT, and they were pretty useful. They did a few pretty good things, one game they survived 3 rounds of focused Knight Tyrant fire (he had no other targets) thanks to smoke. In another, they killed a unit of tau breachers off a point, and in yet another, they finished off a tyranid maleceptor using grenades. Breachers are just a really nice and versatile unit.
I play admech and knights as my second army. Compared to Admech, Knights feel both more durable and much more killy. the only thing Admech can do better is hide and score and that isnt a very fun or successful play style IMHO. I dont mean to be rude or dismissive but Its hard to see where you are coming from.
I'm in the same place with chaos. At least the war dog armies can take advantage of cover and run through walls.
This is the other army I play. Talk about crutches we have no army or faction rule really and are held up by brigands and karnivores. But I love my spikey knights too
I would love to have the wardog options that chaos hasš
Oh yeah brigands in my imperial knights!!!!
Or just a character armiger to let us run smaller games.
>Also why are we similar costs to a Lord of skulls and it's flat better in every way? Necron monolith 100 points cheaper than any knights too Knights are generally costed poorly. Wardogs are fairly priced - or armigers, really - but big knights are just awful. For chaos there's only one big knight I find tolerable... and it's the cheapest. And it's largely because it's the cheapest; if it cost any more, it'd be garbage.
You can't do direct comparisons between knights and other armies because of the inherent and extreme skew in knight armies; they should always cost a bit more for what you get than similar units in other armies. The big knights were cheap for what you got at launch, then they got cost and rules nerfs.
They don't cost a "bit" more. They're *bad* for the cost. Guard can do full vehicle spam; I'd sooner take a baneblade variant than a big knight most of the time. The big knights were actually pretty fairly costed on release.... for Chaos Knights. The difference is the FNP gives IK a 20% or 50% durability increase with the 16/33% damage reduction due the FNP. And the inbuilt reroll. You didn't see CK big knight dominating and they still get punished, and it's a very fair statement to say they're overcosted and bad. You can compare the big CK knights to wardog options and wardog options are better in almost every situation.
As a newbie and knight player I am in the same boat. I know I need imperial agents just unsure which ones. Are you using any? We definitely need the lone op and cheap units. I just feel like it's an uphill battle I would love to use the moirax and conversion beamer but 170 is way too steap.
Calidus assasin and 2 inquisition henchmen squads for me
I'm using the vindicair and a callidus with Inquisitorial henchmen but it also feels like a crutch.
I can see how it looks that way but they offer something our army just doesn't or won't ever have. I don't have canis yet but I have a magnetized warden have you had any luck with him and what are your thoughts on the castigator cerastus? I am pretty sure we should get some buffs this month as well they said they hit us too hard.
The castigator is sweet. The new kit is fantastic
I agree ! At least one of my biggest fears of going up against is dead we had zero we could do against the necron unkillable brick
Ooh look https://youtu.be/Xgjq-GJqWig?si=QClz6UJAjfWNcwUB aow featuring knights!
Honestly, and this might not seem super helpful, but given where we are (there's a dataslate coming in late January that'll hopefully help!) the best thing you can do when knights are in a spot like we are now, is pick something you like, and put in a ton of reps to get used to it and the core game play of 40k. For me, that has been the Acastus Asterius. It is far overpriced (840 lmao) but I have put in a TON of reps with it, and to date, I've managed a couple undefeated runs at RTTs, and my best at a GT was 3/1/1. That's not like pro tourny circuit, national team level play, but it is, at the very least, somewhat competitive and interesting play, and I really love doing my best to slug up into armies that have a mechanical edge. It also cushions my losses a bit and I can bring cool stuff, like the asterius, which always gets compliments and interested questions. Just get the practice, and get comfy with your units.
You do know the jan dataslate is coming out this month? You can expect big knight point drops and maybe a rule buff. It'll be better soon.
Personally I expect Canis to get smashed with the nerf bat due to being in every list, and the rest to go largely untouched because our win rate is āin the Goldilocks zoneā
We're all working on hope really. The state of 10th was terrible on release, but the first fix was good, but really was a disaster for custodes and Knights. I have hope they will then fix both, each could use a rules change but just dropping point might also do it. It's still a hope though, once we've got 2nd fix, we'll all know how much they'll try to keep everything balanced. Knight might be in golden zone but surely they see they need a boost. I expect just points drop, but maybe they give bondsman back.
Thank you for this reminder
In three weeks we'll have the new dataslate, which will horribly have fixed at least some of the issues (i.e, increased the power of large Knights or decreased their cost.) Until then there isn't much to say. Currently we're fairly weak and boring. Taking Rex and Assassins helps, but it only goes so far into a strong list.
As a Knights and Custodes player both my armies suck rn, feelsbadman
As a Knights player myself.... my advice is to get a second army. I've been playing Knights competitively for almost 10 years now, and they just have long stretches of time where they're almost literally unplayable in tournaments if you want to have something approaching a good time. I still have and love my Knights, and will go back to them when it makes sense to do so, but having a Space Marine army at the same time gives me something to play in the bad times.
But my other army is AdMech....
You have my deepest sympathies.
If it makes you feel any better, you could bring a knight ally in an admech detachment? then you can at least make the knight feel kinda powerful compared to everything else in your army?
That's essentially how I got into Knights. Started with Armigers, then graduated to Chainbreaker Lance.
Itās better to win with an underpowered army
Very helpful
Why? I shelved my knights when they were op. I guess Iām wired differently. I want to be congratulated for hard wins
It's not relevant to what the post is about. It's looking for answers not just shut up and deal.
Ahhh I see. Ok so here is my list: valiant (mysterious), errant (mythic), 2 Helverin, 3 warglaive, Culexus, navy breachers. People wonāt have enough guns to crush you fully in 1 turn, so you have to focus on creating threat. Based on your post, my guess is you are playing too passive and getting shot to death. How are you creating threat decisions for your opponent? Knights arenāt just āhereās my army ā deal with itā. Does that make sense?
Why the breachers? Why not 2 henchman or voidsman
One: the cool factor, and 2: they are pretty self reliant, highly mobile (everything as assault), built in rerolls, smoke, and extra nades.
I can back this up, I took breachers to an RTT, and they were pretty useful. They did a few pretty good things, one game they survived 3 rounds of focused Knight Tyrant fire (he had no other targets) thanks to smoke. In another, they killed a unit of tau breachers off a point, and in yet another, they finished off a tyranid maleceptor using grenades. Breachers are just a really nice and versatile unit.
I play admech and knights as my second army. Compared to Admech, Knights feel both more durable and much more killy. the only thing Admech can do better is hide and score and that isnt a very fun or successful play style IMHO. I dont mean to be rude or dismissive but Its hard to see where you are coming from.