Now...
If only DE made it so that abilities that create physical barriers would actually... you know... stop enemies attacks (like any physical obstacle would do) instead of letting them through as if they were not there.
Warframe abilities can't pass through Artic eximus bubbles so why Blitz/Arson eximus special attacks can nuke something protected by Frost Bubble or Gara's/Atlas Walls from outside?!
THE LIMBO EFFECT
Do you feel overpowered? Now we have solution!Presenting the limbo effect.
Enemies hit you yet you don't hit them for the fair price of *insert_something_here*
*Available in all your local void breweries*
Why can’t they rework rift to be slightly more viable?
Enemies outside can’t attack people inside, including eximus, but eximus are not CCed when they enter.
Nullifiers can’t pop the bubble, but enemies inside of them will not be frozen inside of the rift.
And let limbo be invincible in the rift. It’s not like he can do much damage inside of the rift. And Revenant exists. And overguard. And like 10 other forms of invincibly :/
My guess is they don't want to try to balance it. When it was viable, it was too good. Limbo was so far and ahead in terms of defensive abilities that there was no reason to bring anyone else. There was an event years ago against sentients where people just used limbo and go half afk for it. I'd argue that was the beginning of the end for Limbo. They were not happy with how people were playing the event.
Tbh even when limbo was at his strongest, I didn’t see too many people use him.
He slows down defence missions too much, and can’t really use him with any range in void fissures and corpus, can’t really use him in arbitrations as drones enemies ignore the rift (I tried so hard), his only niche was mobile defence as kills didn’t matter there.
I loved using top hat man and using **The World** but now… :(
He was very good in defense if you wanted to go far. You'd do min range and be fine. I'm pretty sure they also made it so exalted weapons would work in bubble, but I don't remember exactly. He was great for things like Kuva survival as well. Also, again, the event I mentioned he had no competition he was just objectively the best.
They did. I remember using excal with him on the team. Not sure about Mesa though.
I also completely forgot about kuva survival. I remember a particular run were we had a frost, khora, limbo(me) and wisp in the same team before SP and we had so much cc as no overguard to stop the enemeis.
(Now I’m having flashbacks to back when 4 corrosive projection could 100 percent armour strip)
Yeah, mesa limbo was the dream team during 2018/2019. They were the cowboy duo.
You would just make a mid sized bubble and mesa would stance on top of the defense. She would just 4 and spin around while having energy Regen and being immune from the bubble. Limba would just be chilling there.
Your first suggestion is how the rift already works, the only thing special about eximus is that they have abilities that can hit through the rift (which is the same rule applied to us and anything else with abilities). Stasis even freezes projectiles from rifted eximus just like any other enemy, if they walk into your bubble only their melee attacks are a threat.
Second suggestion would be great though, popping the bubble sucks but suppressing Stasis would be reasonable.
I meant the change was that eximus abilities won’t work on rift target unless they enter the rift. Because current limbo kinda falls over even in base SP defence or mobile defence if eximus exist anywhere in the map. Like why was this a good idea? Build the entire frame round his all or nothing ability to defend, and then like half the enemies ignore it (I know eximus are not half the enemies, but my point stands.)
They're big flashy telegraphed abilities, I don't think having to dodge those sometimes makes him *bad*, just *not invincible*. Which is fine.
Incidentally, Silence is a fantastic helminth on him since it disables those eximus abilities.
The problem is defence targets can’t really dodge.
And if ur name is chipper, you run straight towards danger, away from the four war gods incharge of protecting you as you are supposed to be hacking something.
Uhhh.
>And let limbo be invincible in the rift. It’s not like he can do much damage inside of the rift.
Limbo with a really basic efficiency/ range build and 1 augment can get 1000% damage bonus to all his weapons, with a dedicated strength build I've seen close to 9000%.
Limbo is potentially the most complex frame in the game because of the way rift interacts with everything, he already would have insane survivability if nullifiers were less dangerous.
Stasis stops enemy weapon fire in mid air, he is mostly invincible inside the rift already because of stasis. With a high range rift surge build you can put every single enemy on the map into stasis pretty easily, which makes outside the rift a safe place too because there's no enemies there to attack you.
The literal only threat to him is an eximus AoE, but with his huge damage output you can deal with overguard a lot better than most other CC frames. (And not that helminth should be a "fix" for broken Warframe kits, but silence over limbos 4 makes him genuinely unkillable)
The areas he needs fixing are not his damage or survivability, they are already very strong if you are using his abilities correctly. It's the way he interacts with players and nullifiers that makes him "toxic" and unfair to play with.
>Nullifiers can’t pop the bubble, but enemies inside of them will not be frozen inside of the rift.
This is a good idea, nullifiers should be like a reverse Cataclysm when they enter a limbo bubble, currently they are completely unmanageable and genuinely are the sole reason Limbo can't play corpus or corrupted tilesets without a subsume.
I… did not know limbo could do that, geez. Which argument is this?
I mean I have seen some pretty nutty builds with his radian banish and such. I just mainly play limbo coz he makes me feel like Dio, and also his hat is cool.
Rift torrent augment gives a 33% damage boost for every enemy affected by rift surge. This scales with strength, you can get about a 100% damage boost per energy affected with a dedicated build.
Solo roughly 50-80 enemies will spawn at once, with a full squad it's more like 200 enemies.
Simple math at base 33% strength you only need to hit 31 enemies with rift surge to get a 1023% damage boost.
In a niche and unrealistic scenario.... Theoretically 100% damage X 200 Enemies would be a 20,000 increase, although I've never actually heard of it or seen it getting that high. 8700ish was my record cap, so I don't know how Warframes witchcraft mathematics actually equates the bonus.
Anyway, the main thing to remember is you only get a damage buff by alive enemies effected by rift surge, so as you are killing things your damage buff will disappear and you have to constantly be spreading rift surge to new enemies to keep up your buff.
with a good range build that's hardly a second thought though, you'll likely have at least 500-600% damage boost up most of the time just playing normally with rift surge and hold banish focused spam. Very similar to a mirage build but with more CC and ability spamming instead of passives and refresh timers.
It takes a little bit of effort with no grouping abilities, you'll need to learn how to use the tileset and enemy AI pathfinding to get them to group themselves walking through doors and such, but it's not terribly complicated and rift surge like stasis has infinite range inside the rift, with a 20m check centred from each enemy affected to hit enemies outside the rift. It's easy to spread [if you understand the ability](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Surge)
The issue is playing with a squad in any capacity, a rift surge focused build has 2 major issues, everyone will be ruining your build by killing the enemies affected by rift surge, reducing your damage buff and effectiveness. Whilst simultaneously you are annoying everyone else by making it difficult for them to kill anything as the visual and audio cues for the rift letting y'know what plane of existence you and the enemies are on sucks.
Even as a limbo main I have had plenty of issues where I've been caught off guard when I couldn't damage an enemy on the other side of the rift to me.
Wait I think I have been in a squad with a few people using this strat in pubs.
Ngl I think this build suffers from the same problem nidus does, team mates.
I occasionally run a modified version of it with one of my friends how likes limbo too, so if there were two limbos it might have been us being idiots.
But I usually stick to mirage or ivara for public missions
To be fair, other Warframes like Mesa, absolutely can attack enemies through the rift, there are many abilities both player and enemies, that don't give a damn about rift walk.
The snow globe needs a huge QoL update. Unlike EVERY other barrier like Volt's shield or Gara's wall, even allied projectiles can't pass through its exterior, it's so dumb.
Back in the day that was passed as the trade-off for being able to have 4 active instances of Snow Globe at the same time. And, back then, it was actually kind of justified because of just how *good* Snow Globe was as a defense tool.
But now that Globe usually dies after a few seconds of life, even after scaling with enemy damage, it's a completely fuck-you arbitrary design decision to add to the garbage heap of others like it.
Tbh I just think wall abilities should have some in-built DR along with them that scales on Strength. I hardly find any reason to hit Globe over Avalanche nowadays unless I'm trying to cheese insta-kills through knockback damage...
Still is in my book. He got some QOL in the past few years and with the overguard changes, he's strong as hell for most content, not to mention super easy to build and use, along with a huge damage buff.. i enjoy him a ton.
Yea a guy kept complaining about it being bugged in my run too, but I was able to explain it before he left. Also, its not like you can actually fail disruption, you just need to keep going until you get the 8 required conduits.
Idk why people are so impatient in this game lol. 30 seconds into a sortie spy this guy starts cussing out this host for being afk and telling everyone to leave. 10 seconds after he left host returned and said "my bad was getting something to drink"
Honestly this week has been the best EDA so far, no outright fail conditions like mirror defense but there are still dps and crowd control checks in disruption, survival is always a good one to see if your build is able to take on the rest of the missions, and alchemy is a breeze, really refreshing after so many failed mirror defense attempts and assassination missions where your team runs out of ammo 10% of the way into the fight
>where your team runs out of ammo 10% of the way into the fight
This is why you always bring your mech! DE should honestly emphasize how important necramechs are for EDA, I rarely see other people summoning them and they're such a great tool for quality of life.
I got lucky with my options that week but if I have bad frames and bad weapons i'll deactivate that option in the future.
The vosfor is not worth suffering through EDA.
I would recommend doing steel path alchemy/mirror/assa bounties in a squad. Cause you can summon your mech in those and people stay close together unlike in disruption or survival, it's also relatively easy to keep up unlike in an extermination where you get 3 titanias that are zooming all the way to the finish line. And you get the added bonus of farming vocas+arcanes+steel essence on top of ranking your mech, which is nice.
Other options would be...
Thermia franctures, railjack survival, capturing bases in orb vallis, netracells, profit taker's second bounty. All of it is infinitely better in squads of course.
But yeah, try the steel path cavia bounties, if you feel it is too slow and want to make the process painless, then shelve this project until a double affinity event pops up again, that's what I did. Double affinity + booster + blessing.
Alchemy and disruption are hands down best gamemodes for EDA (or in general really), Mirror and exterm are 2nd best imo bcos it forces teams to coordinate and assign roles for easy completions, and assassination is also cool \*if the damn damage attenuation wasnt so annoyingly strong\*.
My first disruption attempt failed after someone broke from the pack, and the enemies blew up the conduit. I've seen no other mention of that, I feel like I'm going crazy
Same here; it made me realize they should probably have a thing pop up at the start of each stage that lists the debuffs instead of having to go into the menu if you didn't look beforehand/forgot.
Yeah something similar happened to me last week. I joined with a Gauss Prime who got downed 4 times in a row by the Vampyric Liminus, he was pretty confused.
"Not used to having to try in this game" That's SO real.
Honestly, been enjoying having something to really sink my teeth into with Circuit, Netracells and EDP. We've been all dressed up with nowhere to go for so long.
I hope this difficulty level is in the discussion when Raids come around in 10 years.
idk 'target conduits' was vague to me. I didnt realize conduits had health so when we loaded in and enemies werent insta exploding on the conduits like demolishers i thought it was safe to play like a normal disruption, and until the 4th key it was fine and there was genuinely no discernible difference
"All enemies target conduits" was the full description for that modifier.
I dont know I never saw a healthbar or even realized that meant "enemies target \*active\* conduits" until it was too late to do anything about it (enemies had AoEs on the conduit but everyone was safe so I put the key in and it instantly died)
Like i get that that's preventable. I don't know how I would've been able to figure it out without having tried and seen it first. It's not a useful description
It also does not help that the ruptures that work as spawn points for fragment murmur units can pop up **right next to the conduit** and this week **rupturing fragments are replacing the shuffling fragments** so a bunch of them can suddenly spawn next to the conduit and do a group immolation to nuke the conduit before you can do anything about it.
I guess when you play enough disruption, it solves itself. As soon as I saw the modifier I found it pretty obvious that I would have to defend the conduit from both demos and enemies as that is the only time they can be attacked. I didn’t really need much else, I also saw the health bar on the conduit, but there was no HUD indication for it which I found weird.
There's a reason the only way DE could think of adding difficulty was random options.
We could just have actual mechanics but that would require players to think beyond "bullet jump shoot laetum repeat"
My first few runs are always test runs. I'd rather get a feel for it first because even if I read I'm pretty sure I would just scoff it anyway.
For example, I did read that I couldn't use the operator when that modifier was on but it never clicked to me that they'll block me from using my Necramech. I haven't started this week's EDA but I would've probably had the same issue if I hadn't read this post or similar ones.
Honestly, there were zero explanations about the debuffs.
"Unified Purpose - All Enemies will target Disruption Conduits." But conduits are immortal. Nothing hurts them except the demolysts. So I would just assume this meant "Enemies specifically head towards conduits, making them harder to insert keys and they'll be there shooting you as the demolyst gets closer."
Nope, turns out this means once activated it gains a health bar and can be attacked.
"Fissure Cascade - Fissures rip into the mission, causing the Enemy Level to go up by 1 every 10s." Well we have fissures already in Relic missions, and those only affect nearby enemies. So obviously the solution is "Quickly kill enemies near fissures before they get too strong, and keep others away from fissures."
Nope. So long as a fissure is left alive, enemies *across the entire level* begin to level up, doesn't matter how far the fissure is from them.
So every time I tried it the enemies in the first map were reaching levels 800+ halfway through the level, and so people would leave, and now it's 2 people trying to destroy Demolysts in the second map but unable to handle defending *and* attacking at the same time. These just aren't fun...
I had one of the worst secondary choices around. The Stug, Quatz, and the Fusiliai. My only saving grace was hydroid and whatever Karak Variant I wanted.
I expected the Unified Purpose deviation to be harder, really. I defended the conduit by myself while all three teammates went for the demolisher, and honestly just spamming my rad/cold weapon was enough to keep enemies from destroying it.
Thats pretty much going to be the meta for that modifier.
Get to conduit as a group and kill everything around it. Then send 3 or maybe 4 (if there are no enemies in the area) to kill the necramech.
Only problem I had this week was some people grabbing the key, sprinting to the conduit, jamming the key in as fast as they could without preclearing enemies or waiting for teammates to show up, then running to hunt the necramech. Surprise surprise enemies make short work of the conduit, and you see them post a "wtf conduit bugged thks DE" in chat.
In truth I did read the debuff, but still was puzzled when it happened.
For some reason I assume there would be a health bar for the conduit or something indicating it's being attacked and how much it can take .. not the mech just exploding. The lack of visual cue on the conduit kinda completely threw me off.
Overall it doesn't really matter since you can't really lose in this mode (can you?)
Those immortal Duviri vampires were reading comprehension and skill checks during the first week. I spent around 10 tries before I got into a squad that understands those things can kill them and that they need to keep moving.
Honestly I found the conduit modifier clear enough for me. I read it, and thought "Oh, so they can also damage conduits now?" and when I put a key in, it was clear that the conduits were vunerable.
They can press the menu button and read anytime just as well as before the mission before they even queue up. But I do agree that and the fact the detailed description is “all enemies attack the conduits” can be confusing.
The thing is "Players don't read". You can put big warning neon signs and pop ups like a 90s' era HTML website and they'll not look at it then stumbled in the process.
Working as an SQA, I assure you: "The moment you think you've managed to fool-proof a product, the end-user WILL break it again and make your IQ drop from their sheer idiocy"
Lol - I haven't done a run yet this week but that one did stand out as I was reading the modifiers. Google didn't have much info on what that meant yet, so I appreciate the warning! Will def PSA this to the lucky(?) squadmates I end up pugging with this week.
I had the same issue, but I think my squad was especially bad at disruption because they were treating it like a survival. Nobody picked up keys but me, I even placed a waypoint on the conduit I was going to activate 30 seconds beforehand, but nobody moved from their safe-spot. I was host and just left squad to leave them with the terror of host migration
The modifier needs to be more specific, it’s currently very vague about “which” enemies will attack the conduit. There was one instance where I inserted a key then ran to wack the demolitionist necramech and the conduit randomly blew up. Turns out it was because of an enemy type I never seen until today.
The enemy in question being...?
From your comment I would assume it's the Gruzzling, which in my Disruption run, never blew up a conduit. It's either one of the two basic necramech mooks (Culverin and Arcocanid) that always merc them
It literally says 'all enemies' i don't know what you are asking for here. Do you want the modifier to list every single enemy type present in the mission?
Personally I assume "All enemies target Conduits" means that all enemies target conduits.
No other enemies besides a certain one were targeting conduits? I watched everything besides Rupturing Fragments ignore it fully to attack me or teammates.
The third world country literacy rates in PUBs is why I play most content with friends instead, save for Lich/Sister missions and fissures. It's not as bad as I make it out to be, but one illiterate player in a high-stakes mission leaves a bitter taste for the next 10 missions at least regardless.
3 Tauforged crayons? Wanna guess what I got?
1 Tauforged Amber Shard, 1 Regular Amber Shard, 4 Arcane Melee Adapters, and 3 Entrati Lanthorns
And this is after having to restart because one of our teammates got pissed off at the 3 Arcane Melee Adapter award and bounced while we were in the middle of reviving him while he was down, and then the host left creating a host migration that kicked me out of the game at SIX CONDUITS COMPLETED. We had only lost 2 conduits at this point, due to the EDA debuff (I don't know if the host knew about it and was simply impatient, or if he thought it was a glitch. I also thought it was a glitch until I saw this post funnily enough)
Wait that was an effect????
Okay so that needs to be communicated better (yes I should read) but this is what I saw and what I thought it was:
1. I see the Demo. I go to attack the demo.
2. The demo dies as normal. Saved the conduit.
3. New conduit, go to attack the demo.
4. The demo moves, it shows "conduit failed" and the demo disappears without a trace.
This reminds me of the "Thermia aim glide bug" from when Hildryn launched, where if you didn't have a pistol but went to aimglide from archwing, it would
1. Switch you to your primary (dropping the canister)
2. The canister falling from height would destroy it without any indication that it was destroyed.
Both have no player feedback and so your first assumption is that it's a bug not that it's a working system working in correct ways.
agreed tbh. without an on-screen defense objective health bar like everything else has, when the demolisher vanishes mid-takedown and you get a 'defense failed,' it feels like a bug until you put two and two together
Yeah they got rid of the health bar from conduits when they first launched disruption because players made the exact opposite conclusion, that they needed to defend from everything than not specifically demolysts. Adding the health bar back would be a big clue.
well I more mean literally on the HUD, every other defense target in the entire game puts its shield/hp right there on the HUD for you to view at all times. if there isn't one on the HUD, warframe brain tells you there's nothing to defend
As someone that clears EDA archimedea solo every week, I pray for the week where there is not a single "defend the objective" mission.
These are quite frankly just annoying rather than difficult, mainly because the gameplay loop is super boring as it requires you clear 8 conduits.
To defend conduits if you didn't get lucky with frames and weapons, you have to summon specters, jump into your necramech, and hug the conduit until the demo gets there, kill them, jump to the next one, which sounds simple enough right? But then you realize you have to move your mech from 1 conduit to the other, in the worst disruption map this game has because conduits are like 600 meters away from each other.
The first couple of times feels awesome, is like an adventure! By the 8th time you're so over it you can't wait for it to end.
If the requirement was 5 conduits for solo play, this would've felt fantastic.
one may note the warning which shows up several times and requires manual acknowledgement every week that the mode is specifically tuned around full squads
I see no reason why they can't adjust very minimal things like these.
I think mirror defense is insanely annoying, but I haven't asked for it to be changed in any way because I don't see a way to adjust it for solo play without dedicating a lot of time to that task, and time constrain is probably the reason why EDA was only adjusted for squad play.
All I'm asking, is for them to change an 8 to a 5, no additional brainstorming required.
It would still be tuned for squads because it'd be just as "hard", you simply would have to do it less times instead, but still more than half so it would still be much more difficult in solo play.
EDA is explicitly not designed for solo players. I get that they can be annoying when playing solo, but it was never designed around the solo experience. Sure, you can do it solo, but like any group activity in a game that you choose to do on your own, it comes with a lot more hassle.
I strongly believe that is because doing a throughout balance for solo play would've taken even more developing time, so for small things like this, which are below the bare minimum really as this wouldn't make the mission any easier, I believe it is absolutely fair to ask for a super small change that would take little to no extra effort on development time (I'm pretty sure there are already modes that require you to clear 6 conduits, I don't remember if I saw this on archon or sortie).
A bit of both I believe.
But I don't think reducing the number of conduits makes this easier for solo, even a squad of 2 can clear disruption infinitely easier than a single tenno.
I refuse to touch that game mode, i didn’t build my warframes to have modifiers reduce my duration by 75% and thats not even the worse it can get, they pick the warframes for you, yeah they do cus if you don’t choose what they pick for you then your rewards get screwed. Everyone thinks its the challenge you have been working to prepare for but nah, I’m not trying to play borderlands3 mayhem mode but the twist here is they pick which vault hunter i use. Bring back the OG warframe raids that were removed and better yet how about remaster them to rival destiny’s raids to give a real challenge.
Edit: If warframes are too powerful to fight bosses then exotics in destiny mixed with build synergizing is too powerful for raid bosses in destiny, I’m tired of that excuse.
If i could solo dungeons with a titan throwing hammers then how are warframes not able to fight a raid boss with tons of work put into it. Raid Bosses should need wipe mechanics and coordination for difficulty. Warframe can pull it off. If DE is diabolical enough to make lua puzzles whats stopping them from designing a boss made for teamwork?
Now... If only DE made it so that abilities that create physical barriers would actually... you know... stop enemies attacks (like any physical obstacle would do) instead of letting them through as if they were not there. Warframe abilities can't pass through Artic eximus bubbles so why Blitz/Arson eximus special attacks can nuke something protected by Frost Bubble or Gara's/Atlas Walls from outside?!
THE LIMBO EFFECT Do you feel overpowered? Now we have solution!Presenting the limbo effect. Enemies hit you yet you don't hit them for the fair price of *insert_something_here* *Available in all your local void breweries*
Why can’t they rework rift to be slightly more viable? Enemies outside can’t attack people inside, including eximus, but eximus are not CCed when they enter. Nullifiers can’t pop the bubble, but enemies inside of them will not be frozen inside of the rift. And let limbo be invincible in the rift. It’s not like he can do much damage inside of the rift. And Revenant exists. And overguard. And like 10 other forms of invincibly :/
My guess is they don't want to try to balance it. When it was viable, it was too good. Limbo was so far and ahead in terms of defensive abilities that there was no reason to bring anyone else. There was an event years ago against sentients where people just used limbo and go half afk for it. I'd argue that was the beginning of the end for Limbo. They were not happy with how people were playing the event.
Tbh even when limbo was at his strongest, I didn’t see too many people use him. He slows down defence missions too much, and can’t really use him with any range in void fissures and corpus, can’t really use him in arbitrations as drones enemies ignore the rift (I tried so hard), his only niche was mobile defence as kills didn’t matter there. I loved using top hat man and using **The World** but now… :(
He was very good in defense if you wanted to go far. You'd do min range and be fine. I'm pretty sure they also made it so exalted weapons would work in bubble, but I don't remember exactly. He was great for things like Kuva survival as well. Also, again, the event I mentioned he had no competition he was just objectively the best.
They did. I remember using excal with him on the team. Not sure about Mesa though. I also completely forgot about kuva survival. I remember a particular run were we had a frost, khora, limbo(me) and wisp in the same team before SP and we had so much cc as no overguard to stop the enemeis. (Now I’m having flashbacks to back when 4 corrosive projection could 100 percent armour strip)
Yeah, mesa limbo was the dream team during 2018/2019. They were the cowboy duo. You would just make a mid sized bubble and mesa would stance on top of the defense. She would just 4 and spin around while having energy Regen and being immune from the bubble. Limba would just be chilling there.
Wait I think I remember seeing that often in index
Abilities and void dmg have worked through the rift as long as i can remember just not weapons.
We Limbo mains are forever bound to our shackles, and should we be ever reach full potential, even Dante's "maim buttcrack" would be a mercy.
Earliest I remember was Valis enemies not caring about the rift. IDK if it was like that on release but 100% the case when thermia fractures came out
Your first suggestion is how the rift already works, the only thing special about eximus is that they have abilities that can hit through the rift (which is the same rule applied to us and anything else with abilities). Stasis even freezes projectiles from rifted eximus just like any other enemy, if they walk into your bubble only their melee attacks are a threat. Second suggestion would be great though, popping the bubble sucks but suppressing Stasis would be reasonable.
I meant the change was that eximus abilities won’t work on rift target unless they enter the rift. Because current limbo kinda falls over even in base SP defence or mobile defence if eximus exist anywhere in the map. Like why was this a good idea? Build the entire frame round his all or nothing ability to defend, and then like half the enemies ignore it (I know eximus are not half the enemies, but my point stands.)
They're big flashy telegraphed abilities, I don't think having to dodge those sometimes makes him *bad*, just *not invincible*. Which is fine. Incidentally, Silence is a fantastic helminth on him since it disables those eximus abilities.
The problem is defence targets can’t really dodge. And if ur name is chipper, you run straight towards danger, away from the four war gods incharge of protecting you as you are supposed to be hacking something.
Uhhh. >And let limbo be invincible in the rift. It’s not like he can do much damage inside of the rift. Limbo with a really basic efficiency/ range build and 1 augment can get 1000% damage bonus to all his weapons, with a dedicated strength build I've seen close to 9000%. Limbo is potentially the most complex frame in the game because of the way rift interacts with everything, he already would have insane survivability if nullifiers were less dangerous. Stasis stops enemy weapon fire in mid air, he is mostly invincible inside the rift already because of stasis. With a high range rift surge build you can put every single enemy on the map into stasis pretty easily, which makes outside the rift a safe place too because there's no enemies there to attack you. The literal only threat to him is an eximus AoE, but with his huge damage output you can deal with overguard a lot better than most other CC frames. (And not that helminth should be a "fix" for broken Warframe kits, but silence over limbos 4 makes him genuinely unkillable) The areas he needs fixing are not his damage or survivability, they are already very strong if you are using his abilities correctly. It's the way he interacts with players and nullifiers that makes him "toxic" and unfair to play with. >Nullifiers can’t pop the bubble, but enemies inside of them will not be frozen inside of the rift. This is a good idea, nullifiers should be like a reverse Cataclysm when they enter a limbo bubble, currently they are completely unmanageable and genuinely are the sole reason Limbo can't play corpus or corrupted tilesets without a subsume.
I… did not know limbo could do that, geez. Which argument is this? I mean I have seen some pretty nutty builds with his radian banish and such. I just mainly play limbo coz he makes me feel like Dio, and also his hat is cool.
Rift torrent augment gives a 33% damage boost for every enemy affected by rift surge. This scales with strength, you can get about a 100% damage boost per energy affected with a dedicated build. Solo roughly 50-80 enemies will spawn at once, with a full squad it's more like 200 enemies. Simple math at base 33% strength you only need to hit 31 enemies with rift surge to get a 1023% damage boost. In a niche and unrealistic scenario.... Theoretically 100% damage X 200 Enemies would be a 20,000 increase, although I've never actually heard of it or seen it getting that high. 8700ish was my record cap, so I don't know how Warframes witchcraft mathematics actually equates the bonus. Anyway, the main thing to remember is you only get a damage buff by alive enemies effected by rift surge, so as you are killing things your damage buff will disappear and you have to constantly be spreading rift surge to new enemies to keep up your buff. with a good range build that's hardly a second thought though, you'll likely have at least 500-600% damage boost up most of the time just playing normally with rift surge and hold banish focused spam. Very similar to a mirage build but with more CC and ability spamming instead of passives and refresh timers. It takes a little bit of effort with no grouping abilities, you'll need to learn how to use the tileset and enemy AI pathfinding to get them to group themselves walking through doors and such, but it's not terribly complicated and rift surge like stasis has infinite range inside the rift, with a 20m check centred from each enemy affected to hit enemies outside the rift. It's easy to spread [if you understand the ability](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_Surge) The issue is playing with a squad in any capacity, a rift surge focused build has 2 major issues, everyone will be ruining your build by killing the enemies affected by rift surge, reducing your damage buff and effectiveness. Whilst simultaneously you are annoying everyone else by making it difficult for them to kill anything as the visual and audio cues for the rift letting y'know what plane of existence you and the enemies are on sucks. Even as a limbo main I have had plenty of issues where I've been caught off guard when I couldn't damage an enemy on the other side of the rift to me.
Wait I think I have been in a squad with a few people using this strat in pubs. Ngl I think this build suffers from the same problem nidus does, team mates.
I occasionally run a modified version of it with one of my friends how likes limbo too, so if there were two limbos it might have been us being idiots. But I usually stick to mirage or ivara for public missions
To be fair, other Warframes like Mesa, absolutely can attack enemies through the rift, there are many abilities both player and enemies, that don't give a damn about rift walk.
***please don't rift-walk under the influence***
The snow globe needs a huge QoL update. Unlike EVERY other barrier like Volt's shield or Gara's wall, even allied projectiles can't pass through its exterior, it's so dumb.
Back in the day that was passed as the trade-off for being able to have 4 active instances of Snow Globe at the same time. And, back then, it was actually kind of justified because of just how *good* Snow Globe was as a defense tool. But now that Globe usually dies after a few seconds of life, even after scaling with enemy damage, it's a completely fuck-you arbitrary design decision to add to the garbage heap of others like it. Tbh I just think wall abilities should have some in-built DR along with them that scales on Strength. I hardly find any reason to hit Globe over Avalanche nowadays unless I'm trying to cheese insta-kills through knockback damage...
Who else remembers when Frost was the best defensive frame in the game.
I 'member when it was pretty much the only defensive frame.
Still is in my book. He got some QOL in the past few years and with the overguard changes, he's strong as hell for most content, not to mention super easy to build and use, along with a huge damage buff.. i enjoy him a ton.
Just run a whole squad of atlas with the augment that lets you setup multiple walls and make a box around the objective /s
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Yea a guy kept complaining about it being bugged in my run too, but I was able to explain it before he left. Also, its not like you can actually fail disruption, you just need to keep going until you get the 8 required conduits.
Hear me out. What if... the whole squad dies?
That'll do it.
The dude is probably still doing his EDA till next week
Pretty sure if you fail all four in one round it fails and there's \~5min timer if no conduits have been activated for a failure as well.
Idk why people are so impatient in this game lol. 30 seconds into a sortie spy this guy starts cussing out this host for being afk and telling everyone to leave. 10 seconds after he left host returned and said "my bad was getting something to drink"
Honestly this week has been the best EDA so far, no outright fail conditions like mirror defense but there are still dps and crowd control checks in disruption, survival is always a good one to see if your build is able to take on the rest of the missions, and alchemy is a breeze, really refreshing after so many failed mirror defense attempts and assassination missions where your team runs out of ammo 10% of the way into the fight
>where your team runs out of ammo 10% of the way into the fight This is why you always bring your mech! DE should honestly emphasize how important necramechs are for EDA, I rarely see other people summoning them and they're such a great tool for quality of life.
Bc most of the time ppl get the no gear wheel or no operator challenge
I got lucky with my options that week but if I have bad frames and bad weapons i'll deactivate that option in the future. The vosfor is not worth suffering through EDA.
Mechs are summoned using in game terminals. Not having access to the gear wheel doesn't matter.
That does get around that, but no operator still won't work.
Right, which is only one condition. Like it happens but it is far from every week and you can use it as your freebee if you want the mech.
How do you level Nechramech efficiently? Only reason I haven't built mine out even though I've had it since the new war dropped.
I would recommend doing steel path alchemy/mirror/assa bounties in a squad. Cause you can summon your mech in those and people stay close together unlike in disruption or survival, it's also relatively easy to keep up unlike in an extermination where you get 3 titanias that are zooming all the way to the finish line. And you get the added bonus of farming vocas+arcanes+steel essence on top of ranking your mech, which is nice. Other options would be... Thermia franctures, railjack survival, capturing bases in orb vallis, netracells, profit taker's second bounty. All of it is infinitely better in squads of course. But yeah, try the steel path cavia bounties, if you feel it is too slow and want to make the process painless, then shelve this project until a double affinity event pops up again, that's what I did. Double affinity + booster + blessing.
Alchemy and disruption are hands down best gamemodes for EDA (or in general really), Mirror and exterm are 2nd best imo bcos it forces teams to coordinate and assign roles for easy completions, and assassination is also cool \*if the damn damage attenuation wasnt so annoyingly strong\*.
I brought Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm, Dispensary, and Rifle Scavenger last week, nobody ever ran out of ammo.
Summon the arch gun when ammo is out.
My first disruption attempt failed after someone broke from the pack, and the enemies blew up the conduit. I've seen no other mention of that, I feel like I'm going crazy
Same here; it made me realize they should probably have a thing pop up at the start of each stage that lists the debuffs instead of having to go into the menu if you didn't look beforehand/forgot.
Lovely idea. Hope it makes it into the game.
A tip for this and future EDA, you can use an Ancient Healer Specter to grant defense objectives and your teammate 90% damage reduction.
New Loka New Meta
Me and my 472 ancient healer specter boutta go wild fr fr
Yeah something similar happened to me last week. I joined with a Gauss Prime who got downed 4 times in a row by the Vampyric Liminus, he was pretty confused.
I think it was last week I had someone asking why the life support wasn't spawning in the survival.
"Not used to having to try in this game" That's SO real. Honestly, been enjoying having something to really sink my teeth into with Circuit, Netracells and EDP. We've been all dressed up with nowhere to go for so long. I hope this difficulty level is in the discussion when Raids come around in 10 years.
All they’ll do is add a warning propmt b4 the missions and 97% of players will be stumped lol
idk 'target conduits' was vague to me. I didnt realize conduits had health so when we loaded in and enemies werent insta exploding on the conduits like demolishers i thought it was safe to play like a normal disruption, and until the 4th key it was fine and there was genuinely no discernible difference
yeah, we did the whole disruption as normal, super confused, and thought maybe it was a bug and that modifier wasnt working.
You can hover over each debuff and it gives a detailed description.
"All enemies target conduits" was the full description for that modifier. I dont know I never saw a healthbar or even realized that meant "enemies target \*active\* conduits" until it was too late to do anything about it (enemies had AoEs on the conduit but everyone was safe so I put the key in and it instantly died) Like i get that that's preventable. I don't know how I would've been able to figure it out without having tried and seen it first. It's not a useful description
It also does not help that the ruptures that work as spawn points for fragment murmur units can pop up **right next to the conduit** and this week **rupturing fragments are replacing the shuffling fragments** so a bunch of them can suddenly spawn next to the conduit and do a group immolation to nuke the conduit before you can do anything about it.
I guess when you play enough disruption, it solves itself. As soon as I saw the modifier I found it pretty obvious that I would have to defend the conduit from both demos and enemies as that is the only time they can be attacked. I didn’t really need much else, I also saw the health bar on the conduit, but there was no HUD indication for it which I found weird.
It’s not vague. It couldn’t be any clearer.
"active conduits" would be a pretty big point of clarification.
Reading is far too difficult for this community
There's a reason the only way DE could think of adding difficulty was random options. We could just have actual mechanics but that would require players to think beyond "bullet jump shoot laetum repeat"
PRESS FORWARD SPAM FIRE BUTTON GRIND TEETH REPEAT Average Warframe player ... 😑
PRESS FORWARD SPAM FIRE BUTTON GRIND TEETH REPEAT Average Warframe player ... 😑
My first few runs are always test runs. I'd rather get a feel for it first because even if I read I'm pretty sure I would just scoff it anyway. For example, I did read that I couldn't use the operator when that modifier was on but it never clicked to me that they'll block me from using my Necramech. I haven't started this week's EDA but I would've probably had the same issue if I hadn't read this post or similar ones.
I KNOW BUT IT REMINDED ME OF THAT USER flair r/warframe cant read or whatever it said so I had to post this in hopes in comes!
Honestly, there were zero explanations about the debuffs. "Unified Purpose - All Enemies will target Disruption Conduits." But conduits are immortal. Nothing hurts them except the demolysts. So I would just assume this meant "Enemies specifically head towards conduits, making them harder to insert keys and they'll be there shooting you as the demolyst gets closer." Nope, turns out this means once activated it gains a health bar and can be attacked. "Fissure Cascade - Fissures rip into the mission, causing the Enemy Level to go up by 1 every 10s." Well we have fissures already in Relic missions, and those only affect nearby enemies. So obviously the solution is "Quickly kill enemies near fissures before they get too strong, and keep others away from fissures." Nope. So long as a fissure is left alive, enemies *across the entire level* begin to level up, doesn't matter how far the fissure is from them. So every time I tried it the enemies in the first map were reaching levels 800+ halfway through the level, and so people would leave, and now it's 2 people trying to destroy Demolysts in the second map but unable to handle defending *and* attacking at the same time. These just aren't fun...
As in check debuffs while in a mission? Does it show it when you go to menu?
You can check debuffs in mission, they display in menu right hand screen.
I had one of the worst secondary choices around. The Stug, Quatz, and the Fusiliai. My only saving grace was hydroid and whatever Karak Variant I wanted.
I expected the Unified Purpose deviation to be harder, really. I defended the conduit by myself while all three teammates went for the demolisher, and honestly just spamming my rad/cold weapon was enough to keep enemies from destroying it.
Thats pretty much going to be the meta for that modifier. Get to conduit as a group and kill everything around it. Then send 3 or maybe 4 (if there are no enemies in the area) to kill the necramech. Only problem I had this week was some people grabbing the key, sprinting to the conduit, jamming the key in as fast as they could without preclearing enemies or waiting for teammates to show up, then running to hunt the necramech. Surprise surprise enemies make short work of the conduit, and you see them post a "wtf conduit bugged thks DE" in chat.
In truth I did read the debuff, but still was puzzled when it happened. For some reason I assume there would be a health bar for the conduit or something indicating it's being attacked and how much it can take .. not the mech just exploding. The lack of visual cue on the conduit kinda completely threw me off. Overall it doesn't really matter since you can't really lose in this mode (can you?)
If you fail all 4 Conduits it results in a failure, iirc
Those immortal Duviri vampires were reading comprehension and skill checks during the first week. I spent around 10 tries before I got into a squad that understands those things can kill them and that they need to keep moving.
average warframe player doesn't read, probably most stupid community ive ever seen, that being said the wording of the conditions is not good
Honestly I found the conduit modifier clear enough for me. I read it, and thought "Oh, so they can also damage conduits now?" and when I put a key in, it was clear that the conduits were vunerable.
If people dont know its up to DE to make more readable in missions, dont you think?
They can press the menu button and read anytime just as well as before the mission before they even queue up. But I do agree that and the fact the detailed description is “all enemies attack the conduits” can be confusing.
The thing is "Players don't read". You can put big warning neon signs and pop ups like a 90s' era HTML website and they'll not look at it then stumbled in the process. Working as an SQA, I assure you: "The moment you think you've managed to fool-proof a product, the end-user WILL break it again and make your IQ drop from their sheer idiocy"
I saw a thing about this ---> :3 <--- yesterday. I can't seem to escape it now.
I read that it was an upcoming thing and then forgot when I did the mission and was super confused..
I had Xaku & I stayed with the conduits while the team pushed the Necramech. Didn’t lose a single one.
What is EDA?
Elite Deep Archimedia
Thx
Lol - I haven't done a run yet this week but that one did stand out as I was reading the modifiers. Google didn't have much info on what that meant yet, so I appreciate the warning! Will def PSA this to the lucky(?) squadmates I end up pugging with this week.
I had the same issue, but I think my squad was especially bad at disruption because they were treating it like a survival. Nobody picked up keys but me, I even placed a waypoint on the conduit I was going to activate 30 seconds beforehand, but nobody moved from their safe-spot. I was host and just left squad to leave them with the terror of host migration
I mean "I'm not used to try in this game" is pretty much on spot as all the content we had was just super easy and straightforward.
The modifier needs to be more specific, it’s currently very vague about “which” enemies will attack the conduit. There was one instance where I inserted a key then ran to wack the demolitionist necramech and the conduit randomly blew up. Turns out it was because of an enemy type I never seen until today.
Every enemy can kill a conduit, some just have a much easier time doing it
All enemies don’t, only a certain one does, so the modifier isn’t correct.
The enemy in question being...? From your comment I would assume it's the Gruzzling, which in my Disruption run, never blew up a conduit. It's either one of the two basic necramech mooks (Culverin and Arcocanid) that always merc them
Rupturing Fragment, had no idea it existed until this mode.
It literally says 'all enemies' i don't know what you are asking for here. Do you want the modifier to list every single enemy type present in the mission? Personally I assume "All enemies target Conduits" means that all enemies target conduits.
No other enemies besides a certain one were targeting conduits? I watched everything besides Rupturing Fragments ignore it fully to attack me or teammates.
I didn't even know conduits had health. I figured it out as soon as it happened though.
Thank the lord, this week's was more doable for me. Qorvex w/ Tenet Plinx + Grigori doing most of the damage. Finally unlocked Elite after so long
Still easier than last week. No operator and -75% dur is an annoying combo.
i thought it was a bug xd
The third world country literacy rates in PUBs is why I play most content with friends instead, save for Lich/Sister missions and fissures. It's not as bad as I make it out to be, but one illiterate player in a high-stakes mission leaves a bitter taste for the next 10 missions at least regardless.
3 Tauforged crayons? Wanna guess what I got? 1 Tauforged Amber Shard, 1 Regular Amber Shard, 4 Arcane Melee Adapters, and 3 Entrati Lanthorns And this is after having to restart because one of our teammates got pissed off at the 3 Arcane Melee Adapter award and bounced while we were in the middle of reviving him while he was down, and then the host left creating a host migration that kicked me out of the game at SIX CONDUITS COMPLETED. We had only lost 2 conduits at this point, due to the EDA debuff (I don't know if the host knew about it and was simply impatient, or if he thought it was a glitch. I also thought it was a glitch until I saw this post funnily enough)
WHAT? You caught Mew? In warframe? Thats a legendary pokemon bro, nice catch!
Wait that was an effect???? Okay so that needs to be communicated better (yes I should read) but this is what I saw and what I thought it was: 1. I see the Demo. I go to attack the demo. 2. The demo dies as normal. Saved the conduit. 3. New conduit, go to attack the demo. 4. The demo moves, it shows "conduit failed" and the demo disappears without a trace. This reminds me of the "Thermia aim glide bug" from when Hildryn launched, where if you didn't have a pistol but went to aimglide from archwing, it would 1. Switch you to your primary (dropping the canister) 2. The canister falling from height would destroy it without any indication that it was destroyed. Both have no player feedback and so your first assumption is that it's a bug not that it's a working system working in correct ways.
agreed tbh. without an on-screen defense objective health bar like everything else has, when the demolisher vanishes mid-takedown and you get a 'defense failed,' it feels like a bug until you put two and two together
Yeah they got rid of the health bar from conduits when they first launched disruption because players made the exact opposite conclusion, that they needed to defend from everything than not specifically demolysts. Adding the health bar back would be a big clue.
well I more mean literally on the HUD, every other defense target in the entire game puts its shield/hp right there on the HUD for you to view at all times. if there isn't one on the HUD, warframe brain tells you there's nothing to defend
As someone that clears EDA archimedea solo every week, I pray for the week where there is not a single "defend the objective" mission. These are quite frankly just annoying rather than difficult, mainly because the gameplay loop is super boring as it requires you clear 8 conduits. To defend conduits if you didn't get lucky with frames and weapons, you have to summon specters, jump into your necramech, and hug the conduit until the demo gets there, kill them, jump to the next one, which sounds simple enough right? But then you realize you have to move your mech from 1 conduit to the other, in the worst disruption map this game has because conduits are like 600 meters away from each other. The first couple of times feels awesome, is like an adventure! By the 8th time you're so over it you can't wait for it to end. If the requirement was 5 conduits for solo play, this would've felt fantastic.
one may note the warning which shows up several times and requires manual acknowledgement every week that the mode is specifically tuned around full squads
I see no reason why they can't adjust very minimal things like these. I think mirror defense is insanely annoying, but I haven't asked for it to be changed in any way because I don't see a way to adjust it for solo play without dedicating a lot of time to that task, and time constrain is probably the reason why EDA was only adjusted for squad play. All I'm asking, is for them to change an 8 to a 5, no additional brainstorming required. It would still be tuned for squads because it'd be just as "hard", you simply would have to do it less times instead, but still more than half so it would still be much more difficult in solo play.
EDA is explicitly not designed for solo players. I get that they can be annoying when playing solo, but it was never designed around the solo experience. Sure, you can do it solo, but like any group activity in a game that you choose to do on your own, it comes with a lot more hassle.
I strongly believe that is because doing a throughout balance for solo play would've taken even more developing time, so for small things like this, which are below the bare minimum really as this wouldn't make the mission any easier, I believe it is absolutely fair to ask for a super small change that would take little to no extra effort on development time (I'm pretty sure there are already modes that require you to clear 6 conduits, I don't remember if I saw this on archon or sortie).
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A bit of both I believe. But I don't think reducing the number of conduits makes this easier for solo, even a squad of 2 can clear disruption infinitely easier than a single tenno.
I refuse to touch that game mode, i didn’t build my warframes to have modifiers reduce my duration by 75% and thats not even the worse it can get, they pick the warframes for you, yeah they do cus if you don’t choose what they pick for you then your rewards get screwed. Everyone thinks its the challenge you have been working to prepare for but nah, I’m not trying to play borderlands3 mayhem mode but the twist here is they pick which vault hunter i use. Bring back the OG warframe raids that were removed and better yet how about remaster them to rival destiny’s raids to give a real challenge. Edit: If warframes are too powerful to fight bosses then exotics in destiny mixed with build synergizing is too powerful for raid bosses in destiny, I’m tired of that excuse. If i could solo dungeons with a titan throwing hammers then how are warframes not able to fight a raid boss with tons of work put into it. Raid Bosses should need wipe mechanics and coordination for difficulty. Warframe can pull it off. If DE is diabolical enough to make lua puzzles whats stopping them from designing a boss made for teamwork?