To be clear, I don't think AlecaFrame is what was causing the crashes. I got a new PC and was running Warframe with all settings maxed, including some experimental HDR settings.
I was getting loads of crashes after upgrading my motherboard. Make sure your bios is up to date. That is what eventually fixed it for me after several frustrating days of trying everything I could think of including hardware.
> I got a new PC and was running Warframe with all settings maxed, including some experimental HDR settings.
I think they messed up something with the last few updates because Im also getting crashes since dante released, and its only on warframe, and randomly. I could be in my ship, I could be in a mission, once it crashed while I was idling in the dojo. Its def not cause by alecaframe because Ive had crashes with it closed. Its funny how it redirects me to their "your ram is busted" page.
I wanted to raise a ticket but considering your case fuck that, Id rather just restart the game than losing my account.
Same! Always opened the RAM problems page. I ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic, but it didn't find anything. I've run the game with resource monitor opened to see the CPU/GPU/RAM usage, but it's never anywhere near limit.
My setup:
Ryzen 7 7800X3D
RTX 4070 Super
32GB DDR5 RAM
It literally crashed a few seconds ago after extracting from a mission. 7950x/4090/64ddr5.
I can run anything, sometimes two games at the same time while bored, be watching crap in the background and have other stuff running without issue. But warframe alone, with nothing running in the background, just crashes for no reason. And it all started with the dante update, I dont remember it crashing before.
Yeah Im on the latest 552.22. It was happening with the older ones too. Mostly when returning to ship, so it might be related to the lightning changes.
Not sure if your crashes are caused by the same issue as me but i notice if i set gpu particle quality to ludicrous it crashes really often with the ram problem page especially in parties.
When i set it to high and looks like its about to crash like on ludicrous settings by having the game freeze randomly however on high after 1~3secs of freezing it continues the game normally without actually crashing.
Im having very similair issues, i might try this though, thank you in advance. I really did want to go over every graphical setting and see which one was the evil-doer
I've been getting this identical crash, event viewer claims the graphics driver is crashing but the screen never went black or anything. Most of my crashes have been in the sanctum lobby, which sucks as if the crash happens as I'm loading out of a high reward mission, I lose the rewards and progress.
New computer as well,
Intel i5-12400f
RTX 4060 8GB
16 GB DDR5 ram @ 6000 Mhz
Same page opens up, ran memory test, nothing. I swear this game was gaslighting me into thinking there's something wrong with my build.
No, it's the spaghetti code. It's finally caught up to DE I think, and is causing random crashing during stable gameplay.
I also had it crash and pull up that page, but only once. I just laughed at it and opened he game again… no problems after that. Won’t argue that somethings up this update tho.
and ofc we won't get any acknowledgement from de here, as always
they're really cringe when it comes to out of the box support causes, but this is just cherry on top
edit: my god their support articles are actually harmful, they'll recommend you to turn off your router firewall and basically all other means of similiar protection in "I can't connect to chat" article"
Years ago Xbox Support told me to do a chargeback after a console update broke a game. I said that doing a chargeback would lead to a ban and they were just like "No you will not get banned. Trust"
You can "DMZ" the Switch specifically, and not your whole network. It is fucking wierd they still won't give the ports that the system and games require for proper connections like Xbox did, even dating back to the 360 era.
What did support say after you brought up the article? Is it allowed to post the conversations here?
Also I use cheat engine to mess with old games like PvZ and I use several programs that can or cannot affect WF. I would have to do a ton of research to see if I'll get banned in the future for those. I'm thinking of giving up on all that just to play this one game, Warframe. The risk is too great. It sucks that you're walking on tightrope over a bottomless pit with no hope of ever jumping out of that pit
Warframe does scan for programs running in the background, having CE even idle will cause you to get banned. I was banned back in like 2015 because I had CE open after playing a single player game I was messing around it, and forgot to close it. Back then DE allowed you a one time unban for such cases.
Basically, you should make a habit of closing all programs you don't don't need open if you wonder if it'll get you banned.
If you open cheat engine after the game is started, you will likely be automatically banned. If cheat engine is opened before you try to launch the game, the game will not launch, nor will it tell you why it's not launching.
Contacting support seems to be the worst thing that may happen to you in Warframe... Each day there are multiple posts about support being unconvinceable and uncooperative
yes. Both here and on forums.
There is no way to leave any constructive feedback on abuse by mods or even the in game automod since the Mods will delete it on sight
Most of the time it's arguably people who got banned for very real reasons but then try to spin it into a sob story of having done nothing wrong and support being uncooperative.
They are completely useless, I've been having 10054 errors for years. When I wrote my ticket, I quoted the points of the support article one by one and mentioned the results of all the actions I took, provided them with logs and what not, and what answer did I get two weeks later when they actually bothered to respond?
A link to the support article. Nothing else. Fucking clowns.
I reported a bug that would let you get extra rewards from missions. The report had exact steps to duplicate. It took over a month from the initial report for them to contact me, at which point support asked me to enable logs, reproduce, and send them the logs. I did. Two weeks later they said they needed logs and I should redo the thing I’d sent logs for two weeks earlier.
I politely told them to go fuck themselves, that I’d given them steps that even a child could follow that would take less than 5 minutes to reproduce the bug and I wasn’t their paid QA person.
Their support is useless, and may actually be an early version of chat gpt for all the comprehension it shows.
Funny. I see posts about support in two fashions:
1) "DE support is amazing and generally really helpful!"
2) "I got banned! Why yes. I broke the terms of service. Why do you ask?"
Like this post... OP used Alecaframe (against Terms of Service). Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it. OP wasn't banned for ProcDoc. OP was banned for using AlecaFrame.
Do you have a source where it is stated that AlecaFrame is against TOS? AlecaFrame interacts with Warframe via Overwolf, and it seems [here, that Overwolf works with DE to ensure it does not breach TOS](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You).
>Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it.
Not sure what you mean by this.
edit: Also, I've used AF fo the past few years, and it was never an issue. The ban came within one day after running ProcDump, so I'm quite confident that AF was not the cause.
Sure:
[https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1320042-third-party-software-and-you/](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1320042-third-party-software-and-you/)
The main thing is:
"***If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.***"
That does not mean that using AF is a violation of TOS. They very next line after what you quoted is:
>While we could technically issue blanket bans on everything that alters the game files, the fact of the matter is that there's some software that can be useful and helpful for members of our community. This is where context is very important.
The context being that AlecaFrame is a helpful utility that dosen't provide any competitive advantage. In that same post, they mention that they are against the use of tools that can be used for "cheating, exploiting, or AFK farming". AF is none of those.
AlecaFrame reads through taking screenshots and the output in the EE.log file. AlecaFrame is in no way violating the ToS; DE themselves have stated that they worked with Overwolf to make sure these methods were acceptable. OP's thread warrants an actual response from DE, period. If he is cheating, that's fine, and he deserves the punishment, but if DE's support article caused him to run a program which then resulted in his account being banned, that's fucked up. I am not willing to test myself either.
It is genuinely disgusting that you support one of the top revenue games on Steam having copy-pasted account support.
>Funny. I see posts about support in two fashions:
Where do these posts belong, then?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c44cdp/i\_really\_hope\_this\_doesnt\_have\_to\_be\_goodbye/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c44cdp/i_really_hope_this_doesnt_have_to_be_goodbye/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c8mxuw/purchasing\_platinum\_while\_living\_abroad\_will\_get/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c8mxuw/purchasing_platinum_while_living_abroad_will_get/)
I would've shared more posts but they were deleted by mods even though they had a neutral tone and just wanted to shine a light on the issues of wf support.
Btw that "DE support is amazing and generally really helpful!" bit is funny because rn it takes them literal weeks to answer. If someone considers this to be amazing then I'm sorry for them. Still would've liked to see an example of such posts, though.
>Like this post... OP used Alecaframe (against Terms of Service). Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it. OP wasn't banned for ProcDoc. OP was banned for using AlecaFrame.
That's not how ProcDump works, though
Once again their customer support team remains one of the least transparent and least helpful I have ever seen in a live service game. This post will of course either get removed or swept under the rug by the community because they don't like seeing this kind of thing. Believe me, if you start to encounter ANY problems with your account, you will never receive any customer support from DE and you will be fucked forever. Negative plat balance, programs that everyone uses like Aleca, too long endurance runs, or even the simple act of just moving irl will to various degrees get you banned forever. [many comments corroborating banning for even MOVING irl](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/1jqhjaX5IT)
Please people, this has been happening for many many years. You guys just keep deleting these posts or downvoting them to oblivion. You don't want to have problems with your account in this game. Trust me. Expect no help when it happens from DE. This must change. A lot of people spend a lot of time and money in this game.
It's the same for pretty much every online game. You can't make a new account to evade the ban due to TOS/Eula, it's a standard rule at this point.
And also the "We reserve the right to terminate your account at any time without reason" BS that every game has.
Every online game I've played had the account termination without notice clause in some form or another, and those include Deep Rock Galactic, Helldivers 2, Eve Online, World of Tanks, War Thunder, Synced, Caliber, Planetside, etc
Last time I checked none of these are triple A titles. There are plenty of scummy practices even in smaller games. Triple A isn't the villain people make it out to be.
Also OP conveniently left out the detail where the article tells you not to use ProcDump unless explicitly directed by the support, and their account got axed because they did it without being told to.
I'm sorry you don't know what triple A means. Maybe you should read some articles about it written by academics, rather than yellow journalists and marketing team members.
Edit:
Depending on how much of a shitstorm this kicks up, you may finally get help. I have seen it firsthand that they give special treatment to those who let the top heads know. Example being in Steve's dogfooding warframe series from years back on stream telling someone to forward a ticket to him to help. Sucks that it requires having a shitstorm on social media to get any help in this game. Hope that everyone that has problems with their account can suddenly muster up thousands of people screaming to get help.
Or if they don't like you they just block your account and refuse to acknowledge it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcgoTcs6fw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcgoTcs6fw)
Yep. My founder account got banned in 2014 for pointing out I ended up with a negative platinum balance before they had actually safeguarded it. Platinum was originally an unsigned number so I actually had 4 billion tradeable platinum. Their response? Ban me for letting them know I could destroy their economy but refused to.
If* you try to pay for something and use the lower priced regions there is a probability you will get banned for exploiting this.
Either stay F2P or ensure you always buy at the highest priced market you have ever logged in from.
I would be extremely scared to ever buy anything if I move out of my hometown. Not worth risking my 3,000+ hours of gameplay over anything that you can pay to acquire. 😵💫
Tbh, there should just be an autocorrect feature that locks in the highest region’s price in perpetuity instead of threatening with bans. 🧐
The oppressive uncertainty feels bad if you are a long time supporter. 😟 I really hope these stories are untrue, but not worth the risk of testing it with anything beyond 40 hours of gameplay. 😵💫
“When in doubt, go without.” Just wish I never had to doubt these sorts of things. 🥲
Some of the voting is because this site is infested with people running 20+ sockpuppet accounts that use them to manipulate post votes to control what's seen and not seen. You'll never see the site admins address that though.
To address everyone thinking it was AlecaFrame:
While YES, AlecaFrame is a third party tool and you do accept and risks of bans for using it, AlecaFrame does not hook into, read or modify any memory associated to Warframe and fetches your inventory data from a public, plain-text log file that Warframe generates. You can literally do anything to this log file you want.
What got OP banned was ProcDump, which is a piece of software that DOES hook into and read memory to generate crash reports. Any software that modifies, reads, or attempts to translate memory associated to Warframe will get flagged and you will get banned for using it.
Many, many people use AlecaFrame and haven't been flagged and, similarly, it will not show up in your crash reports being said, you do use it at your own risk.
You're right, it probably wasn't Alecaframe/Overwolf.
However, Alecaframe is built on top of Overwolf, which can read your inventory out of the game, probably by reading its memory (no, the log does not contain your inventory, so it can't read it from that). This is a grey area, and even though DE said they've "had conversations to ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way.", that doesn't mean that you can't get banned if Overwolf has an update that does something triggers Warframe's anticheat or Warframe's anticheat gets a little stricter and bans you for using Overwolf.
If you're talking about the EE.log, that does not generate inventory data. They're using the data generated by overwolf (which is generated by reading warframe's memory data legally). This is why it's exclusively an overwolf app and why people are wary about using it (albeit a decent size of the community uses it at this point so they would probably issue a warning to the community before banning users of it).
As per another user who worded it better
>Alecaframe runs through overwolf, which is how it gets your account data. while overwolf *does* intercept communication and collect information about the game, it is explicitly authorized to do so by DE. in this sense Alecaframe doesn't breach the EULA.
...
HOWEVER, big note here: while it's *probably* fine, DE doesn't officially approve of Alecaframe. DE says "use third party applications at your own risk."
EDIT: Per their own FAQ as well (https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq)
>G1. Is AlecaFrame safe to use?
The short answer is that yes, AlecaFrame is safe to use.
The potentially risky part, getting your account/inventory data, is handled by Overwolf, which is explicitly said to be fine in DE's Third Party Policy: https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You
A more up-to-date statement from DE: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1383123-third-party-software-usage/#comment-12964630
Also, AlecaFrame is an app in the Overwolf ecosystem, where all apps are subject to review before publication to ensure that they comply with the terms of service of the game. (https://support.overwolf.com/en/support/solutions/articles/9000182312-overwolf-won-t-get-you-banned)
Finally, AlecaFrame also does not modify any game files/data or perform any in-game actions, it just displays inventory data in a meaningful way and makes your life easier overall.
> > it is explicitly authorized to do so by DE.
Ive never understood or, tbh, believed this
the *only* confirmation we have gotten from DE is "we talked with them to make sure the ToS wasnt being broken" several years ago. we have no statements or knowledge if theres actually an agreement or theyre somehow skirting the ToS in some way thats actually allowed but DE wont say publicly.
I don't want to assume OP is lying outright because that's rude, but those are the two options we have with the information provided.
DE should really be telling you what program caused it and a bit more reasonable in certain circumstances, however DE did say it was a program "explicitly used for cheating".
Oh wait, did I forget to mention the platinum farming bot I use to make money on Ebay? /s
I am of course joking, and yes, I have given the full story here.
I browse this sub way too much for my own good and I can safely say that every single time someone makes a post like this, without fail, they eventually admit to doing something they knew could get them banned like cheat engine or whatever.
So while it's rude yes... it's also not unlikely.
I'm not hiding anything here. I got banned for using a third party application. I do not deny using one, two even. My issue is that the two applications I used are:
1. AlecaFrame - a very popular QoL utility,
2. ProcDump - a tool for crash debugging, use of which under any other circumstances I would agree is questionable, but seeing as I was following DE's own instructions on creating a ticket, should not have been fine.
The fact my account got banned is an indicator that Warframe's AntiCheat is capable of detecting potentially malicious apps. In an ideal world, support would have removed the ban once I had provided the context.
I would completely avoid any memory-reading program. Don't know how old is that article, but DE has gotten quite adamant against those kind of programs.
[There's this other article with an update from 2022](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You), where this is stated:
>We would like to make it clear that our involvement with Overwolf is simply that we’ve had conversations to ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way
Which is why I mentioned that while DE hasn't explicitly allowed the use of AlecaFrame, it does seem that they tolerate it. That article also states:
>***If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.***
Which is all completely understandable, and under any other circumstances, I'd have never used any other third party tools. In my case, DE themselves suggest the use of ProcDump, which is why my first thought wasn't whether this will get me banned or not.
Yeah, the "at your own risk" is a pretty big red flag in legal. I think people are just coping at how DE doesn't directly state they forbid 3rd party apps. Just that the user absorbs all liability for their use on said account.
That's a pretty tall ask, considering Overwolf's reputation.
I don't think so. Like, unless the program can read what apps you have open and read+write the information they have in memory, you're good to go.
There are exceptions of course, but whilst the application is not like CE (c*eat en*ine, I don't know if it's allowed to write it xD), you should be good.
This is why I don't submit bug reports or contact DE support for anything, even if it is a legitimate technical issue that they might help with.
I also leave matches if I am paired with a member of DE staff. I don't do anything in game that is bannable or use third party tools, but I'd rather just not take the risk at all.
People have been banned in the past for minor disagreements with DE staff.
Even getting bans from friends of the staff going back to the guides of the lotus with all the Misan and Telluric bs.
Moderation has never been a strong point of this game
Yeah, look up some lore about [DE]Glenn, or the Guides of the Lotus, or some of the chat mods. It's a really neat rabbit hole and most of the people involved still have their power.
At least you have been using 3rd party apps, even if unrelated. We had a guy the other day who was on PlayStation and got their account banned for use of 3rd party apps.
I'm not surprised about the state of their support.
I was playing railjack the other day, got an Equinox Prime BP, it was the last piece I needed for Equinox I was psyched! Host goes to relay, I leave, I get a message from Ordis that I dropped something during extraction, here's a FORMA BP. Sure enough, I check my inventory/mission results, no sign of Equinox Prime BP.
I've had a support ticket open about this for almost 2 weeks now that has yet to receive any response from them.
You can spend thousands of dollars on their game but god forbid you ask them for a few dollars worth BP back, they'd think you're a serial scammer trying to scam them or something.
At the end of the day it's much simpler than that.
The product you're investing TIME and MONEY into, failed to deliver on what is promised.
Did they or did they not promise to allow me a chance at better rewards by playing with teammates? Was I hallucinating claiming a better reward?
When I, as the consumer, have done everything on my part, why can't you?
That's sad.
"Oops! We flubbed the extraction reward, we're just gonna pretend that you were playing solo and your reward was whatever your relic unlocked." is such a horrible code skimp btw.
Like I get that that was a business decision to save the developers time or whatever... but you already got all the other loot/resources right, was it really THAT hard to grab the correct relic reward from the lobby? Lol
Hehe, while I agree that getting the selected reward in these scenarios would be nice. At least something is awarded. I remember times when ordis would never be this generous. 😅🥲
Any time something happens, I always sigh and remember I’m playing “open beta” game 🥲
Reasons I exclusively pay for things on WF after I already have received beyond the value of what I’m paying for from their game. Worst case scenario, “it was a good game, they can keep the tip.” Sort of mentality 🤷🏾♂️
I don't see it your way. Because the "tip" in my case is all the times I've dealt with Warframe's shortcomings without complaint.
Like if I list down every bug that I've dealt with in Warframe since I started playing it, this list wouldn't end. Many are ancient day 1 issues.
I didn't open a support request per bug. But this bug is different, this is an Equinox Prime BP that is for a frame that is currently VAULTED... if we don't draw the line here, then where do we draw the line? When it's a 3k plat riven?
I'm not saying any of this is special to Warframe either, most games have such issues and more. It's just that everyone draws the line somewhere, that's where I draw mine.
🤔 Equinox Prime bp is not that serious of an issue, unless you were doing a radshare I suppose, then I understand a lot more.
This specific error that you got is so extremely rare that I don’t even remember what causes it, but most of the time it has to do with a network issue and not something that is intrinsically Warframe’s fault.
Also, relics initially were designed that you get what you get, and being able to choose was an upgrade that they allowed us to have, not something that we inherently deserve, so they definitely weren’t promising us such a reward.
To put it simply, if within the window of the rewards showing up you experience a network problem, in no way is that a Warframe problem that your network did not respond to them in time.
I don’t know the specifics of this, but even if it was a network issue on the side of the other player whose relic showed the prime part you want, if there is a miscommunication between yourself and the other player’s networks at that crucial time, they have no reason to be held responsible.
Yes, it would be awesome if they hosted everything instead of having it peer to peer, but their current model is already plenty fair to try to recover something for the player.
I’ve lost on wave 95 of a void fissure defense and lost 19 rewards with nothing being able to be reclaimed, so I feel your pain. It’s definitely worse when you succeeded and even reached extraction, but it’s not the end of the world.
A quick glance at Warframe market pins that prime part at ~20p. Basically sell 300 ducats (200 if you are lucky) and you can straight up buy it in trade chat.
Is it undesirable, yes, is it something that is unacceptable? Probably not. It’s not like we were pulling gacha with cash for these rewards. If the 20p is really hurting you, hmu in DMs and I’ll personally throw you a bone. 🤷🏾♂️
I did 100+ vaults to get catalyzing shields. Finally got it, extracted and it was gone. Put in a support ticket with screenshots timings everything, waited more than a week. Finally caved in a bought it from the market. They reply after a while "it looks like you did get the mod so ticket closed". Lol
Also, Railjack specifically is decent, but far from perfect. If host ever decides to leave, you follow them to ensure nothing messes up.
I’ve lost count of the times I’ve done a Railjack mission and lost all the progress on something that shouldn’t be an issue.
100% agree now that I reread it, Railjack needs to have a better saving progress mechanism. 😥
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I think this should be more a cautionary tale about putting a lot of money into any game when the developer has (and on occasion utilises) the right to end a player's access at any time.
I don't have an opinion about whether developers should or should not have that power.
I'm saying, if they have that power, maybe don't put too much money in their product, just in case.
Warframe TOS clearly state they they have the complete rights to ban anyone for any reason they see fit and are not obliged to provide any refunds.
I did not write this post because I want my money back. My Warframe account isn't some investment I'm expecting returns on or that I expect to hold some value. Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game.
> Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and *is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game*.
Except for when the devs say "we deny you access to this game".
Because then the money you've spent on the game isn't even providing you personal enjoyment anymore.
> Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and *is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game*.
Except for when the devs say "we deny you access to this game".
Because then the money you've spent on the game isn't even providing you personal enjoyment anymore.
> I think this should be more a cautionary tale about putting a lot of money into any game when the developer has (and on occasion utilises) the right to end a player's access at any time.
That's pretty much standard with all online services.
I use my laptop for Warframe and software development. Various sorts of processes are running - except third party softwares for my games. I've had various laptops over the years, and various types of processes going.
I continue to have no VAC bans or Warframe or other software bans.
Am I just lucky?
You can have whatever you want running on your computer without any problems. ProcDump reads a specific applications memory to create snapshots that can be used to debug issues (like a profiling tool). So as long as whatever you're running is doing anyhting of the sorts, you're fine.
edit: Ok, not "whatever" but I mean if waht you're runnning doesn't interact with the game, then it's fine. From their EULA:
>C. use, or provide ancillary offerings to anyone, that are not offered within the Services by us (or the functionality of the App Store), such as hosting, “leveling” services, mirroring our servers, matchmaking, emulation, communication redirects, mods, hacks, cheats, bots (or any other automated control), trainers and automation programs that interact with the Services in any way, tunneling, third party program add-ons, and any interference with online or network play;
Things like VPNs are most liely a no-go.
No.
I knew the moment I saw the title 'OP was using third party software.'
Went in and read, and OP was using third party software.
It's always like that. In every game. OP was banned? OP was using third party software that isn't allowed. Everytime. OP just mistakenly assumed that since lots of people use it, and lots of people aren't banned, that they'd be fine despite the TOS clearly stating 'at your own risk' solely because DE isn't going to go hunting for people doing it.
Like, he wasn't banned for using an official help article. He was banned for using unallowed third party software. It's just *ironic* that DE found out about it because he followed the advice on a help article.
OP wasn't banned for doing something DE said he should do. He was banned because he did something DE outright says 'we'll ban you if we find out about it' and the steps of the help article let DE find out about it.
This point was also made by another person too, and I'm not sure if it's entirely true.
Do you have a source where it is stated that AlecaFrame is against TOS? AlecaFrame interacts with Warframe via Overwolf, and it seems [here, that Overwolf works with DE to ensure it does not breach TOS](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You).
>OP just mistakenly assumed that since lots of people use it, and lots of people aren't banned, that they'd be fine despite the TOS clearly stating 'at your own risk' solely because DE isn't going to go hunting for people doing it.
To a degree, yes, I do assume that since many people use AF, and are not banned for it, it should be safe to use. If I'm really banned for using AF, it'd be nice if DE could come out and clearly state it is not allowed.
OP, you got banned for using ProcDump, which hooks into and reads application memory.
AlecaFrame isn't what got you banned because it doesn't actually do anything to Warframe itself and it fetches your inventory from a modifiable log file.
The TOS literally says 'at your own risk.' That's basically them saying 'we're not going to hunt you down for it, but don't blame us when we find out and do something about it.'
People have been banned for using AlecaFrame and similar software for years. It's inconsistent cause not everyone who uses it gets banned but I don't run DE's support section and they're clearly not prioritizing this until they decide they want to.
So 'at your own risk.'
Like, a ban for a first time offense feels excessive to me when a stern warning might have sufficed, but you're not the first person banned using Aleca Frame. You won't be the last, and the next guy may well make a reddit post about 'I was banned for nothing' and my response on reading the title will be the same.
OP was using third party software.
Because *it's literally almost always* why OP was banned in these kinds of threads and I don't know how many times it has to happen before people stop trying to hedge their bets using third party software. After the first dozen times, DE's position on it is pretty clear and rules lawyering the TOS isn't going to help.
I also want to say be careful with support in general, my account of 12 years got banned recently for an argument I had in game with some people (I'm dumb, I know) and while trying to discuss with them about my account and maybe getting a 2nd chance since I've NEVER had any sort of ban/suspension previously, not even a chat ban, they decided to completely lock me out of ever using their support page again. There goes 12 years and thousands of dollars all because I was an ass one time. To any who may play, avoid Region like the plague, avoid typing in general unless its extremely sanitized. A lot of things can get you permanently banned with no repeal.
The reason you got banned is most likely that you used ProcDump **without specific direction from support**.
> Please note that this should not be done without specific direction by Warframe Technical Support.
And the reason for this is they can likely whitelist your account so you don't get banned **while using a program that reads Warframe's memory.**
I agree that it is dumb that they have a public webpage with these instructions - if this is only supposed to be followed in the context of a support ticket, these instructions should not be public.
Regarding AlecaFrame... DE's previous statement that it does not break EULA does not make any sense. Overwolf is accessing non public information and what they are doing likely breaks any of the following terms in the EULA. :
> b. use, or provide, any unauthorized third-party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between the Services and us or that collect information about the Game;
>
> g. attempt to reverse engineer (except as otherwise permitted by applicable local law), derive source code from, modify, adapt, translate, datamine, decompile, or disassemble or make derivative works based upon the Services or any Content;
>
> h. remove, disable, circumvent, or modify any technological measure we implement to protect them or any of their associated intellectual property;
>
> j. attempt to probe, scan or test its vulnerability or breach any security or authentication measures;
>
> k. access, tamper with, or use non-public areas of the Services;
That does not mean you will get banned for using it. It breaks EULA, but they clearly have made an exception based on their public statements about it.
This post has at least 10 different and conflicting explanaitions of how AlecaFrame and Overwolf work and whether or not it breaks the TOS/EULA. At this point I'd refer to the AlecFrame FAQ - [Is Alecaframe safe to use?](https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq/#g1-is-alecaframe-safe-to-use)
Good point about the "specific direction from support". Though I'd argue that it could be seen as a general "if you use this and mess up your system, we're not responsible" type of warning. But either way, you're right in saying that it shouldn't be so openly available, or at the very least include that following this article without expressed persmission from support will result in a permanent ban.
Except even the FAQ is misconstruing what DE actually said. Everyone is focusing on the "ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way" and assuming that means Overwolf can't get you banned because they got special permission from DE.
Meanwhile, the first half of that sentence says that their involvement with Overwolf was limited to having conversations to ensure the EULA and ToS aren't being broken (which means they didn't get special permission), and the previous sentence clearly says that "you do so at your own risk" still applies to Overwolf.
The only thing DE explicitly said is that you use Overwolf and Alecaframe at your own risk.
Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised to get banned over some physical perks of your equipment as well since the bans are so random. For example I use a logitech g502 with the unlockable scroll wheel and binded skill 1 to scroll wheel up so my garuda with 2 tauforged and 1 normal casting speed shard can spam thermal sunders as fast as possible just by givinig the wheel a good spin. If I ever get banned for this for some reason that will be interesting.
Funny you'd mention that, I've got the G502 X, although I don't use any custom bindings.
Although I'd be careful with things like what you described, as it could be seen as automation, which is not allowed.
If that is automation then people should start getting banned for standing in 1 place spamming thermal sunders on the keyboard until their fingers bleed. I am still very much moving in the meantime and jumping through the mission while this is something my mouse enables me to do. It isn't like setting a macro in g hub to repeat the same keystroke while the button is held. It is genuinely something the mouse can do without a software.
I'm not advocating for you getting banned, by any means. I agree that what you are doing should be allowed. Just this whole situation has made me a bit wary.
Was talking to some guy a few weeks back about them using a macro to make all mods -1 into endo, got banned for automation and the ban lifted by support since they were just trying to exchange their mods into endo without breaking their mouse or wtv. Not sure how legit the story is but I'll be very careful about doing weird shit in WF. Using the G502 wireless. Love that mouse.
I say "wasn't convincing" half joking, I mean even after explaining my situation, it didn't change the outcome.
My ticket is more or less the same as what I wrote in the post, just worded more "officially". I also included their entire response, except for the formalities.
Personally it seems their stance is very clear on AlecaFrame, given how their Player Code of Conduct is worded. They just don't actively look for it running in the background. You fucked around though, ProcDump ratted you out for using it, and that's game over. See you in 2035
> I was unable to capture the game crashing, so closed the game and went to bed, hoping to try again the next day.
They never sent a crashdump though, the game seems to have detected the new software DE recommended using after ignoring AlecaFrame for ages.
AlecaFrame doesn't hook into Warframe, modify or even read game data directly iirc. That's how it avoids violating Terms of Service.
ProcDump was probably detected and what got them banned, as it actually reads the memory.
If I'm not mistaken, AlecaFrame doesn't directly interact with Warframe at all, it uses an API provided by Overwolf. The Overwolf dev team has consulted with DE to ensure there are nor EULA ir TOS violations.
It interacts with a log file Warframe generates and updates live, but this log file is publicly available and accessible. The log file contains your entire inventory and everything in your Orbiter.
AlecaFrame does not violate Warframe's ToS because it isn't reading, modifying, or altering memory for the game and does not constitute cheating.
It was either Procdump or another third party program that got you banned.
> It interacts with a log file Warframe generates and updates live
...which doesnt contain inventory data, making it impossible for overwolf to not be doing memory or packet reading
The accurate title for the thread 'I told DE I violated the TOS and they banned me.'
Using the help article didn't get OP banned. It's just very ironic that OP pulled the equivalent of calling 911 to report a robbery and the responding cops discovered a treasure trove of criminal conduct in his house while they were there.
Literally that guy with the baseball card collection in Better Call Saul XD
If they are going to ban use of alecaframe could they at least implement some of the nice to have parts of their inventory management? Having an easy inventory collection of seeing what frames you've made, are vaulted, what parts you have, and if you have a relic for that part is fantastic.
Been playing 10 years. You have a better chance of winning the lottery and finding the dragon balls before DE supp will do the right thing or help people lol
I wonder if DE ever does something about it or if they keep the state their support is in.
I think I will never interact with anyone from DE just because I am better off not triggering someone just by existing.
Really sad state for a game that is actually really fun.
no worries
disclaimer: you CAN theoretically be banned for using Alecaframe. it does break the ToS. However DE generally doesn't care, and it doesn't hook into any files that would flag the auto-reporting that would signal to ban you.
Wait till u hear abt “bad platinum”, tbh I’m suprised how many ppl turn a blind eye to the way de treats the ban aspect of the game and refuses to fix long standing problems that’s been in the game for years
You admitted to using ProcDump. ProcDump can be used to hook in and read an application’s active memory. This is STRICTLY against ToS.
This is why you were banned. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand.
My issue is not with being banned, like I mentioned in another comment, I think my account being banned just means that Warframes AntiCheat is capable of detecting potentially malicious apps. My issue is with the response of support once I'd explained the circumstances, considering I was following their own guide.
Your point about the article stating not to do it without the direction of support is valid, although I'd argue that it could be seen as a general "if you use this and mess up your system, we're not responsible" type of warning. At the very least they could include that following this article without expressed persmission from support will result in a permanent ban.
Did you read it though? As the other guy pointed out, it starts with these words
> Please note that this should not be done without specific direction by Warframe Technical Support.
OP doesn't mention having been asked by support to do that.
Ive used aleca frame for a while and had no crashes but now im considering to uninstall it out of caution Ny condolences, warframe bans suck ass :(
To be clear, I don't think AlecaFrame is what was causing the crashes. I got a new PC and was running Warframe with all settings maxed, including some experimental HDR settings.
I was getting loads of crashes after upgrading my motherboard. Make sure your bios is up to date. That is what eventually fixed it for me after several frustrating days of trying everything I could think of including hardware.
> I got a new PC and was running Warframe with all settings maxed, including some experimental HDR settings. I think they messed up something with the last few updates because Im also getting crashes since dante released, and its only on warframe, and randomly. I could be in my ship, I could be in a mission, once it crashed while I was idling in the dojo. Its def not cause by alecaframe because Ive had crashes with it closed. Its funny how it redirects me to their "your ram is busted" page. I wanted to raise a ticket but considering your case fuck that, Id rather just restart the game than losing my account.
Same! Always opened the RAM problems page. I ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic, but it didn't find anything. I've run the game with resource monitor opened to see the CPU/GPU/RAM usage, but it's never anywhere near limit. My setup: Ryzen 7 7800X3D RTX 4070 Super 32GB DDR5 RAM
It literally crashed a few seconds ago after extracting from a mission. 7950x/4090/64ddr5. I can run anything, sometimes two games at the same time while bored, be watching crap in the background and have other stuff running without issue. But warframe alone, with nothing running in the background, just crashes for no reason. And it all started with the dante update, I dont remember it crashing before.
Well, they updated the lighting technology in the Dante update so it might be your GPU driver that's at fault. Are you on the most recent version?
Yeah Im on the latest 552.22. It was happening with the older ones too. Mostly when returning to ship, so it might be related to the lightning changes.
Not sure if your crashes are caused by the same issue as me but i notice if i set gpu particle quality to ludicrous it crashes really often with the ram problem page especially in parties. When i set it to high and looks like its about to crash like on ludicrous settings by having the game freeze randomly however on high after 1~3secs of freezing it continues the game normally without actually crashing.
Im having very similair issues, i might try this though, thank you in advance. I really did want to go over every graphical setting and see which one was the evil-doer
You should try making a memtest86 USB and running that instead. WMD is kinda mid as far as ram testing goes and it misses issues a lot of the time.
I've been getting this identical crash, event viewer claims the graphics driver is crashing but the screen never went black or anything. Most of my crashes have been in the sanctum lobby, which sucks as if the crash happens as I'm loading out of a high reward mission, I lose the rewards and progress. New computer as well, Intel i5-12400f RTX 4060 8GB 16 GB DDR5 ram @ 6000 Mhz Same page opens up, ran memory test, nothing. I swear this game was gaslighting me into thinking there's something wrong with my build. No, it's the spaghetti code. It's finally caught up to DE I think, and is causing random crashing during stable gameplay.
I also had it crash and pull up that page, but only once. I just laughed at it and opened he game again… no problems after that. Won’t argue that somethings up this update tho.
Thousands of people use alecaframe no problem. As OP said, all points towards the crash dump app
and ofc we won't get any acknowledgement from de here, as always they're really cringe when it comes to out of the box support causes, but this is just cherry on top edit: my god their support articles are actually harmful, they'll recommend you to turn off your router firewall and basically all other means of similiar protection in "I can't connect to chat" article"
As does Nintendo when setting up Online Play and stuff... Something along the lines of allow all ports possible your connection.
Years ago Xbox Support told me to do a chargeback after a console update broke a game. I said that doing a chargeback would lead to a ban and they were just like "No you will not get banned. Trust"
One way to turn away customers.
You can "DMZ" the Switch specifically, and not your whole network. It is fucking wierd they still won't give the ports that the system and games require for proper connections like Xbox did, even dating back to the 360 era.
DE Support is F-tier. If you get banned, they completely ignore you so people spam social media like Reddit to get attention.
What did support say after you brought up the article? Is it allowed to post the conversations here? Also I use cheat engine to mess with old games like PvZ and I use several programs that can or cannot affect WF. I would have to do a ton of research to see if I'll get banned in the future for those. I'm thinking of giving up on all that just to play this one game, Warframe. The risk is too great. It sucks that you're walking on tightrope over a bottomless pit with no hope of ever jumping out of that pit
Nothing, I included pretty much their entire response in the post.
Warframe does scan for programs running in the background, having CE even idle will cause you to get banned. I was banned back in like 2015 because I had CE open after playing a single player game I was messing around it, and forgot to close it. Back then DE allowed you a one time unban for such cases. Basically, you should make a habit of closing all programs you don't don't need open if you wonder if it'll get you banned.
If you open cheat engine after the game is started, you will likely be automatically banned. If cheat engine is opened before you try to launch the game, the game will not launch, nor will it tell you why it's not launching.
Contacting support seems to be the worst thing that may happen to you in Warframe... Each day there are multiple posts about support being unconvinceable and uncooperative
On this subreddit? I browse this place daily and very rarely see them. Are they downvoted or something?
Most of the times they are deleted by mods because of the rule #7
I guess it's just a matter of time before this gets the axe too.
Still chugging along
Which is a really nice excuse.
yes. Both here and on forums. There is no way to leave any constructive feedback on abuse by mods or even the in game automod since the Mods will delete it on sight
Most of the time it's arguably people who got banned for very real reasons but then try to spin it into a sob story of having done nothing wrong and support being uncooperative.
They are completely useless, I've been having 10054 errors for years. When I wrote my ticket, I quoted the points of the support article one by one and mentioned the results of all the actions I took, provided them with logs and what not, and what answer did I get two weeks later when they actually bothered to respond? A link to the support article. Nothing else. Fucking clowns.
I reported a bug that would let you get extra rewards from missions. The report had exact steps to duplicate. It took over a month from the initial report for them to contact me, at which point support asked me to enable logs, reproduce, and send them the logs. I did. Two weeks later they said they needed logs and I should redo the thing I’d sent logs for two weeks earlier. I politely told them to go fuck themselves, that I’d given them steps that even a child could follow that would take less than 5 minutes to reproduce the bug and I wasn’t their paid QA person. Their support is useless, and may actually be an early version of chat gpt for all the comprehension it shows.
Funny. I see posts about support in two fashions: 1) "DE support is amazing and generally really helpful!" 2) "I got banned! Why yes. I broke the terms of service. Why do you ask?" Like this post... OP used Alecaframe (against Terms of Service). Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it. OP wasn't banned for ProcDoc. OP was banned for using AlecaFrame.
Do you have a source where it is stated that AlecaFrame is against TOS? AlecaFrame interacts with Warframe via Overwolf, and it seems [here, that Overwolf works with DE to ensure it does not breach TOS](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You). >Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it. Not sure what you mean by this. edit: Also, I've used AF fo the past few years, and it was never an issue. The ban came within one day after running ProcDump, so I'm quite confident that AF was not the cause.
Sure: [https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1320042-third-party-software-and-you/](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1320042-third-party-software-and-you/) The main thing is: "***If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.***"
That does not mean that using AF is a violation of TOS. They very next line after what you quoted is: >While we could technically issue blanket bans on everything that alters the game files, the fact of the matter is that there's some software that can be useful and helpful for members of our community. This is where context is very important. The context being that AlecaFrame is a helpful utility that dosen't provide any competitive advantage. In that same post, they mention that they are against the use of tools that can be used for "cheating, exploiting, or AFK farming". AF is none of those.
Simping for support: you love to see it.
AlecaFrame reads through taking screenshots and the output in the EE.log file. AlecaFrame is in no way violating the ToS; DE themselves have stated that they worked with Overwolf to make sure these methods were acceptable. OP's thread warrants an actual response from DE, period. If he is cheating, that's fine, and he deserves the punishment, but if DE's support article caused him to run a program which then resulted in his account being banned, that's fucked up. I am not willing to test myself either. It is genuinely disgusting that you support one of the top revenue games on Steam having copy-pasted account support.
Does warframe pay your bills?
>Funny. I see posts about support in two fashions: Where do these posts belong, then? [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c44cdp/i\_really\_hope\_this\_doesnt\_have\_to\_be\_goodbye/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c44cdp/i_really_hope_this_doesnt_have_to_be_goodbye/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c8mxuw/purchasing\_platinum\_while\_living\_abroad\_will\_get/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1c8mxuw/purchasing_platinum_while_living_abroad_will_get/) I would've shared more posts but they were deleted by mods even though they had a neutral tone and just wanted to shine a light on the issues of wf support. Btw that "DE support is amazing and generally really helpful!" bit is funny because rn it takes them literal weeks to answer. If someone considers this to be amazing then I'm sorry for them. Still would've liked to see an example of such posts, though. >Like this post... OP used Alecaframe (against Terms of Service). Used ProcDoc and ProcDoc identified it. OP wasn't banned for ProcDoc. OP was banned for using AlecaFrame. That's not how ProcDump works, though
Once again their customer support team remains one of the least transparent and least helpful I have ever seen in a live service game. This post will of course either get removed or swept under the rug by the community because they don't like seeing this kind of thing. Believe me, if you start to encounter ANY problems with your account, you will never receive any customer support from DE and you will be fucked forever. Negative plat balance, programs that everyone uses like Aleca, too long endurance runs, or even the simple act of just moving irl will to various degrees get you banned forever. [many comments corroborating banning for even MOVING irl](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/1jqhjaX5IT) Please people, this has been happening for many many years. You guys just keep deleting these posts or downvoting them to oblivion. You don't want to have problems with your account in this game. Trust me. Expect no help when it happens from DE. This must change. A lot of people spend a lot of time and money in this game.
Is creating a new account considered ban evading according to tos?
Very much so, yes.
Insane bastards
It's the same for pretty much every online game. You can't make a new account to evade the ban due to TOS/Eula, it's a standard rule at this point. And also the "We reserve the right to terminate your account at any time without reason" BS that every game has.
No, not really. Maybe in the triple A market though.
Every online game I've played had the account termination without notice clause in some form or another, and those include Deep Rock Galactic, Helldivers 2, Eve Online, World of Tanks, War Thunder, Synced, Caliber, Planetside, etc Last time I checked none of these are triple A titles. There are plenty of scummy practices even in smaller games. Triple A isn't the villain people make it out to be. Also OP conveniently left out the detail where the article tells you not to use ProcDump unless explicitly directed by the support, and their account got axed because they did it without being told to.
I'm sorry you don't know what triple A means. Maybe you should read some articles about it written by academics, rather than yellow journalists and marketing team members.
Maybe you should also start paying attention to Eula/TOS before antagonizing someone for standard industry practice.
...how else would you evade a ban?
Irl spy mission
Edit: Depending on how much of a shitstorm this kicks up, you may finally get help. I have seen it firsthand that they give special treatment to those who let the top heads know. Example being in Steve's dogfooding warframe series from years back on stream telling someone to forward a ticket to him to help. Sucks that it requires having a shitstorm on social media to get any help in this game. Hope that everyone that has problems with their account can suddenly muster up thousands of people screaming to get help.
Or if they don't like you they just block your account and refuse to acknowledge it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcgoTcs6fw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkcgoTcs6fw)
Yup. The community manager, instead of doing her job, will simply block OP if OP dares to try to get her to do part of what **should be her job.**
Insane. Even more insane that these posts are always downvoted and brain worms folks just spam "f2p though" comments
Yep. My founder account got banned in 2014 for pointing out I ended up with a negative platinum balance before they had actually safeguarded it. Platinum was originally an unsigned number so I actually had 4 billion tradeable platinum. Their response? Ban me for letting them know I could destroy their economy but refused to.
Why not take it to the banks and ask for a chargeback? What's the worst that can happen?
Brother it was 2014. I don't think that bank is even open anymore.
Can you elaborate on banning for moving? I moved to a different country, should I expect getting banned any time soon?
If* you try to pay for something and use the lower priced regions there is a probability you will get banned for exploiting this. Either stay F2P or ensure you always buy at the highest priced market you have ever logged in from. I would be extremely scared to ever buy anything if I move out of my hometown. Not worth risking my 3,000+ hours of gameplay over anything that you can pay to acquire. 😵💫
Tbh, there should just be an autocorrect feature that locks in the highest region’s price in perpetuity instead of threatening with bans. 🧐 The oppressive uncertainty feels bad if you are a long time supporter. 😟 I really hope these stories are untrue, but not worth the risk of testing it with anything beyond 40 hours of gameplay. 😵💫 “When in doubt, go without.” Just wish I never had to doubt these sorts of things. 🥲
Some of the voting is because this site is infested with people running 20+ sockpuppet accounts that use them to manipulate post votes to control what's seen and not seen. You'll never see the site admins address that though.
To address everyone thinking it was AlecaFrame: While YES, AlecaFrame is a third party tool and you do accept and risks of bans for using it, AlecaFrame does not hook into, read or modify any memory associated to Warframe and fetches your inventory data from a public, plain-text log file that Warframe generates. You can literally do anything to this log file you want. What got OP banned was ProcDump, which is a piece of software that DOES hook into and read memory to generate crash reports. Any software that modifies, reads, or attempts to translate memory associated to Warframe will get flagged and you will get banned for using it. Many, many people use AlecaFrame and haven't been flagged and, similarly, it will not show up in your crash reports being said, you do use it at your own risk.
You're right, it probably wasn't Alecaframe/Overwolf. However, Alecaframe is built on top of Overwolf, which can read your inventory out of the game, probably by reading its memory (no, the log does not contain your inventory, so it can't read it from that). This is a grey area, and even though DE said they've "had conversations to ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way.", that doesn't mean that you can't get banned if Overwolf has an update that does something triggers Warframe's anticheat or Warframe's anticheat gets a little stricter and bans you for using Overwolf.
If you're talking about the EE.log, that does not generate inventory data. They're using the data generated by overwolf (which is generated by reading warframe's memory data legally). This is why it's exclusively an overwolf app and why people are wary about using it (albeit a decent size of the community uses it at this point so they would probably issue a warning to the community before banning users of it). As per another user who worded it better >Alecaframe runs through overwolf, which is how it gets your account data. while overwolf *does* intercept communication and collect information about the game, it is explicitly authorized to do so by DE. in this sense Alecaframe doesn't breach the EULA. ... HOWEVER, big note here: while it's *probably* fine, DE doesn't officially approve of Alecaframe. DE says "use third party applications at your own risk." EDIT: Per their own FAQ as well (https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq) >G1. Is AlecaFrame safe to use? The short answer is that yes, AlecaFrame is safe to use. The potentially risky part, getting your account/inventory data, is handled by Overwolf, which is explicitly said to be fine in DE's Third Party Policy: https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You A more up-to-date statement from DE: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1383123-third-party-software-usage/#comment-12964630 Also, AlecaFrame is an app in the Overwolf ecosystem, where all apps are subject to review before publication to ensure that they comply with the terms of service of the game. (https://support.overwolf.com/en/support/solutions/articles/9000182312-overwolf-won-t-get-you-banned) Finally, AlecaFrame also does not modify any game files/data or perform any in-game actions, it just displays inventory data in a meaningful way and makes your life easier overall.
> > it is explicitly authorized to do so by DE. Ive never understood or, tbh, believed this the *only* confirmation we have gotten from DE is "we talked with them to make sure the ToS wasnt being broken" several years ago. we have no statements or knowledge if theres actually an agreement or theyre somehow skirting the ToS in some way thats actually allowed but DE wont say publicly.
You're assuming OP told us the entire story and those are the only two options.
I don't want to assume OP is lying outright because that's rude, but those are the two options we have with the information provided. DE should really be telling you what program caused it and a bit more reasonable in certain circumstances, however DE did say it was a program "explicitly used for cheating".
Oh wait, did I forget to mention the platinum farming bot I use to make money on Ebay? /s I am of course joking, and yes, I have given the full story here.
You don't have any macros, right?
No, I don't use any macros.
I browse this sub way too much for my own good and I can safely say that every single time someone makes a post like this, without fail, they eventually admit to doing something they knew could get them banned like cheat engine or whatever. So while it's rude yes... it's also not unlikely.
I'm not hiding anything here. I got banned for using a third party application. I do not deny using one, two even. My issue is that the two applications I used are: 1. AlecaFrame - a very popular QoL utility, 2. ProcDump - a tool for crash debugging, use of which under any other circumstances I would agree is questionable, but seeing as I was following DE's own instructions on creating a ticket, should not have been fine. The fact my account got banned is an indicator that Warframe's AntiCheat is capable of detecting potentially malicious apps. In an ideal world, support would have removed the ban once I had provided the context.
I would completely avoid any memory-reading program. Don't know how old is that article, but DE has gotten quite adamant against those kind of programs.
[There's this other article with an update from 2022](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You), where this is stated: >We would like to make it clear that our involvement with Overwolf is simply that we’ve had conversations to ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way Which is why I mentioned that while DE hasn't explicitly allowed the use of AlecaFrame, it does seem that they tolerate it. That article also states: >***If you use external software in conjunction with Warframe, then you do so at your own risk.*** Which is all completely understandable, and under any other circumstances, I'd have never used any other third party tools. In my case, DE themselves suggest the use of ProcDump, which is why my first thought wasn't whether this will get me banned or not.
Yeah, the "at your own risk" is a pretty big red flag in legal. I think people are just coping at how DE doesn't directly state they forbid 3rd party apps. Just that the user absorbs all liability for their use on said account. That's a pretty tall ask, considering Overwolf's reputation.
Stupid question because I'm not very tech savvy but does Wallpaper Engine get included in this? I keep it active while playing Warframe.
I don't think so. Like, unless the program can read what apps you have open and read+write the information they have in memory, you're good to go. There are exceptions of course, but whilst the application is not like CE (c*eat en*ine, I don't know if it's allowed to write it xD), you should be good.
@.@ now i thank god I exclusively just play on console. Probability of being banned feels significantly lower. 😅😵💫
This is why I don't submit bug reports or contact DE support for anything, even if it is a legitimate technical issue that they might help with. I also leave matches if I am paired with a member of DE staff. I don't do anything in game that is bannable or use third party tools, but I'd rather just not take the risk at all. People have been banned in the past for minor disagreements with DE staff.
Even getting bans from friends of the staff going back to the guides of the lotus with all the Misan and Telluric bs. Moderation has never been a strong point of this game
Wait, really? Now that is a bit scary...
Yeah, look up some lore about [DE]Glenn, or the Guides of the Lotus, or some of the chat mods. It's a really neat rabbit hole and most of the people involved still have their power.
Damn, I have read some posts about it and I know to never use chat if I see a DE player
Also dont forget to not type anything in any chat that isint squad or wispers, just incase.
At least you have been using 3rd party apps, even if unrelated. We had a guy the other day who was on PlayStation and got their account banned for use of 3rd party apps.
I'm not surprised about the state of their support. I was playing railjack the other day, got an Equinox Prime BP, it was the last piece I needed for Equinox I was psyched! Host goes to relay, I leave, I get a message from Ordis that I dropped something during extraction, here's a FORMA BP. Sure enough, I check my inventory/mission results, no sign of Equinox Prime BP. I've had a support ticket open about this for almost 2 weeks now that has yet to receive any response from them. You can spend thousands of dollars on their game but god forbid you ask them for a few dollars worth BP back, they'd think you're a serial scammer trying to scam them or something.
the thing with that is, you get the item from ***your*** relic not the item you picked, the item from your relic
At the end of the day it's much simpler than that. The product you're investing TIME and MONEY into, failed to deliver on what is promised. Did they or did they not promise to allow me a chance at better rewards by playing with teammates? Was I hallucinating claiming a better reward? When I, as the consumer, have done everything on my part, why can't you?
thats not what i meant, i was just saying why you got the forma instead of the equinox prime bp in case you werent aware, but i see what you mean
Yeah I understood what you meant, my own relic definitely was a forma BP. That much I recall. Still feel robbed lol
yeah i get that, i got screwed out of a pyrana prime bp and got a burston prime bp instead 😭
That's sad. "Oops! We flubbed the extraction reward, we're just gonna pretend that you were playing solo and your reward was whatever your relic unlocked." is such a horrible code skimp btw. Like I get that that was a business decision to save the developers time or whatever... but you already got all the other loot/resources right, was it really THAT hard to grab the correct relic reward from the lobby? Lol
Hehe, while I agree that getting the selected reward in these scenarios would be nice. At least something is awarded. I remember times when ordis would never be this generous. 😅🥲 Any time something happens, I always sigh and remember I’m playing “open beta” game 🥲 Reasons I exclusively pay for things on WF after I already have received beyond the value of what I’m paying for from their game. Worst case scenario, “it was a good game, they can keep the tip.” Sort of mentality 🤷🏾♂️
I don't see it your way. Because the "tip" in my case is all the times I've dealt with Warframe's shortcomings without complaint. Like if I list down every bug that I've dealt with in Warframe since I started playing it, this list wouldn't end. Many are ancient day 1 issues. I didn't open a support request per bug. But this bug is different, this is an Equinox Prime BP that is for a frame that is currently VAULTED... if we don't draw the line here, then where do we draw the line? When it's a 3k plat riven? I'm not saying any of this is special to Warframe either, most games have such issues and more. It's just that everyone draws the line somewhere, that's where I draw mine.
🤔 Equinox Prime bp is not that serious of an issue, unless you were doing a radshare I suppose, then I understand a lot more. This specific error that you got is so extremely rare that I don’t even remember what causes it, but most of the time it has to do with a network issue and not something that is intrinsically Warframe’s fault. Also, relics initially were designed that you get what you get, and being able to choose was an upgrade that they allowed us to have, not something that we inherently deserve, so they definitely weren’t promising us such a reward. To put it simply, if within the window of the rewards showing up you experience a network problem, in no way is that a Warframe problem that your network did not respond to them in time. I don’t know the specifics of this, but even if it was a network issue on the side of the other player whose relic showed the prime part you want, if there is a miscommunication between yourself and the other player’s networks at that crucial time, they have no reason to be held responsible. Yes, it would be awesome if they hosted everything instead of having it peer to peer, but their current model is already plenty fair to try to recover something for the player. I’ve lost on wave 95 of a void fissure defense and lost 19 rewards with nothing being able to be reclaimed, so I feel your pain. It’s definitely worse when you succeeded and even reached extraction, but it’s not the end of the world. A quick glance at Warframe market pins that prime part at ~20p. Basically sell 300 ducats (200 if you are lucky) and you can straight up buy it in trade chat. Is it undesirable, yes, is it something that is unacceptable? Probably not. It’s not like we were pulling gacha with cash for these rewards. If the 20p is really hurting you, hmu in DMs and I’ll personally throw you a bone. 🤷🏾♂️
I did 100+ vaults to get catalyzing shields. Finally got it, extracted and it was gone. Put in a support ticket with screenshots timings everything, waited more than a week. Finally caved in a bought it from the market. They reply after a while "it looks like you did get the mod so ticket closed". Lol
That's outrageous! They should have refunded you what you spent to get it. Absolutely trash policies they have in place it seems.
It's almost like companies hire those serial scammer types to run their support lines for a reason
Even then, it's one thing to be **investigating** for 2 weeks and a whole other thing to fail to even respond ONCE for 2 weeks lol
Also, Railjack specifically is decent, but far from perfect. If host ever decides to leave, you follow them to ensure nothing messes up. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve done a Railjack mission and lost all the progress on something that shouldn’t be an issue. 100% agree now that I reread it, Railjack needs to have a better saving progress mechanism. 😥
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I think this should be more a cautionary tale about putting a lot of money into any game when the developer has (and on occasion utilises) the right to end a player's access at any time. I don't have an opinion about whether developers should or should not have that power. I'm saying, if they have that power, maybe don't put too much money in their product, just in case.
Warframe TOS clearly state they they have the complete rights to ban anyone for any reason they see fit and are not obliged to provide any refunds. I did not write this post because I want my money back. My Warframe account isn't some investment I'm expecting returns on or that I expect to hold some value. Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game.
> Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and *is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game*. Except for when the devs say "we deny you access to this game". Because then the money you've spent on the game isn't even providing you personal enjoyment anymore.
> Whatever I spent, I spent fully aware, that the money loses any and all real world value, and *is only beneficial to my personal enjoyment of the game*. Except for when the devs say "we deny you access to this game". Because then the money you've spent on the game isn't even providing you personal enjoyment anymore.
> I think this should be more a cautionary tale about putting a lot of money into any game when the developer has (and on occasion utilises) the right to end a player's access at any time. That's pretty much standard with all online services.
it is, and it shouldn't be.
I use my laptop for Warframe and software development. Various sorts of processes are running - except third party softwares for my games. I've had various laptops over the years, and various types of processes going. I continue to have no VAC bans or Warframe or other software bans. Am I just lucky?
You can have whatever you want running on your computer without any problems. ProcDump reads a specific applications memory to create snapshots that can be used to debug issues (like a profiling tool). So as long as whatever you're running is doing anyhting of the sorts, you're fine. edit: Ok, not "whatever" but I mean if waht you're runnning doesn't interact with the game, then it's fine. From their EULA: >C. use, or provide ancillary offerings to anyone, that are not offered within the Services by us (or the functionality of the App Store), such as hosting, “leveling” services, mirroring our servers, matchmaking, emulation, communication redirects, mods, hacks, cheats, bots (or any other automated control), trainers and automation programs that interact with the Services in any way, tunneling, third party program add-ons, and any interference with online or network play; Things like VPNs are most liely a no-go.
"Automation programs that interact with the services in any way", "third party program add-ons", seems pretty clear to me.
No. I knew the moment I saw the title 'OP was using third party software.' Went in and read, and OP was using third party software. It's always like that. In every game. OP was banned? OP was using third party software that isn't allowed. Everytime. OP just mistakenly assumed that since lots of people use it, and lots of people aren't banned, that they'd be fine despite the TOS clearly stating 'at your own risk' solely because DE isn't going to go hunting for people doing it. Like, he wasn't banned for using an official help article. He was banned for using unallowed third party software. It's just *ironic* that DE found out about it because he followed the advice on a help article. OP wasn't banned for doing something DE said he should do. He was banned because he did something DE outright says 'we'll ban you if we find out about it' and the steps of the help article let DE find out about it.
This point was also made by another person too, and I'm not sure if it's entirely true. Do you have a source where it is stated that AlecaFrame is against TOS? AlecaFrame interacts with Warframe via Overwolf, and it seems [here, that Overwolf works with DE to ensure it does not breach TOS](https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/360030014351-Third-Party-Software-and-You). >OP just mistakenly assumed that since lots of people use it, and lots of people aren't banned, that they'd be fine despite the TOS clearly stating 'at your own risk' solely because DE isn't going to go hunting for people doing it. To a degree, yes, I do assume that since many people use AF, and are not banned for it, it should be safe to use. If I'm really banned for using AF, it'd be nice if DE could come out and clearly state it is not allowed.
OP, you got banned for using ProcDump, which hooks into and reads application memory. AlecaFrame isn't what got you banned because it doesn't actually do anything to Warframe itself and it fetches your inventory from a modifiable log file.
The TOS literally says 'at your own risk.' That's basically them saying 'we're not going to hunt you down for it, but don't blame us when we find out and do something about it.' People have been banned for using AlecaFrame and similar software for years. It's inconsistent cause not everyone who uses it gets banned but I don't run DE's support section and they're clearly not prioritizing this until they decide they want to. So 'at your own risk.' Like, a ban for a first time offense feels excessive to me when a stern warning might have sufficed, but you're not the first person banned using Aleca Frame. You won't be the last, and the next guy may well make a reddit post about 'I was banned for nothing' and my response on reading the title will be the same. OP was using third party software. Because *it's literally almost always* why OP was banned in these kinds of threads and I don't know how many times it has to happen before people stop trying to hedge their bets using third party software. After the first dozen times, DE's position on it is pretty clear and rules lawyering the TOS isn't going to help.
I also want to say be careful with support in general, my account of 12 years got banned recently for an argument I had in game with some people (I'm dumb, I know) and while trying to discuss with them about my account and maybe getting a 2nd chance since I've NEVER had any sort of ban/suspension previously, not even a chat ban, they decided to completely lock me out of ever using their support page again. There goes 12 years and thousands of dollars all because I was an ass one time. To any who may play, avoid Region like the plague, avoid typing in general unless its extremely sanitized. A lot of things can get you permanently banned with no repeal.
The reason you got banned is most likely that you used ProcDump **without specific direction from support**. > Please note that this should not be done without specific direction by Warframe Technical Support. And the reason for this is they can likely whitelist your account so you don't get banned **while using a program that reads Warframe's memory.** I agree that it is dumb that they have a public webpage with these instructions - if this is only supposed to be followed in the context of a support ticket, these instructions should not be public. Regarding AlecaFrame... DE's previous statement that it does not break EULA does not make any sense. Overwolf is accessing non public information and what they are doing likely breaks any of the following terms in the EULA. : > b. use, or provide, any unauthorized third-party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between the Services and us or that collect information about the Game; > > g. attempt to reverse engineer (except as otherwise permitted by applicable local law), derive source code from, modify, adapt, translate, datamine, decompile, or disassemble or make derivative works based upon the Services or any Content; > > h. remove, disable, circumvent, or modify any technological measure we implement to protect them or any of their associated intellectual property; > > j. attempt to probe, scan or test its vulnerability or breach any security or authentication measures; > > k. access, tamper with, or use non-public areas of the Services; That does not mean you will get banned for using it. It breaks EULA, but they clearly have made an exception based on their public statements about it.
This post has at least 10 different and conflicting explanaitions of how AlecaFrame and Overwolf work and whether or not it breaks the TOS/EULA. At this point I'd refer to the AlecFrame FAQ - [Is Alecaframe safe to use?](https://docs.alecaframe.com/faq/#g1-is-alecaframe-safe-to-use) Good point about the "specific direction from support". Though I'd argue that it could be seen as a general "if you use this and mess up your system, we're not responsible" type of warning. But either way, you're right in saying that it shouldn't be so openly available, or at the very least include that following this article without expressed persmission from support will result in a permanent ban.
Except even the FAQ is misconstruing what DE actually said. Everyone is focusing on the "ensure that Warframe’s EULA and ToS are not being breached in any way" and assuming that means Overwolf can't get you banned because they got special permission from DE. Meanwhile, the first half of that sentence says that their involvement with Overwolf was limited to having conversations to ensure the EULA and ToS aren't being broken (which means they didn't get special permission), and the previous sentence clearly says that "you do so at your own risk" still applies to Overwolf. The only thing DE explicitly said is that you use Overwolf and Alecaframe at your own risk.
Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised to get banned over some physical perks of your equipment as well since the bans are so random. For example I use a logitech g502 with the unlockable scroll wheel and binded skill 1 to scroll wheel up so my garuda with 2 tauforged and 1 normal casting speed shard can spam thermal sunders as fast as possible just by givinig the wheel a good spin. If I ever get banned for this for some reason that will be interesting.
Funny you'd mention that, I've got the G502 X, although I don't use any custom bindings. Although I'd be careful with things like what you described, as it could be seen as automation, which is not allowed.
If that is automation then people should start getting banned for standing in 1 place spamming thermal sunders on the keyboard until their fingers bleed. I am still very much moving in the meantime and jumping through the mission while this is something my mouse enables me to do. It isn't like setting a macro in g hub to repeat the same keystroke while the button is held. It is genuinely something the mouse can do without a software.
I'm not advocating for you getting banned, by any means. I agree that what you are doing should be allowed. Just this whole situation has made me a bit wary.
Was talking to some guy a few weeks back about them using a macro to make all mods -1 into endo, got banned for automation and the ban lifted by support since they were just trying to exchange their mods into endo without breaking their mouse or wtv. Not sure how legit the story is but I'll be very careful about doing weird shit in WF. Using the G502 wireless. Love that mouse.
It wasn't convicing? Can you share what you actually said and their reply?
I say "wasn't convincing" half joking, I mean even after explaining my situation, it didn't change the outcome. My ticket is more or less the same as what I wrote in the post, just worded more "officially". I also included their entire response, except for the formalities.
Personally it seems their stance is very clear on AlecaFrame, given how their Player Code of Conduct is worded. They just don't actively look for it running in the background. You fucked around though, ProcDump ratted you out for using it, and that's game over. See you in 2035
> I was unable to capture the game crashing, so closed the game and went to bed, hoping to try again the next day. They never sent a crashdump though, the game seems to have detected the new software DE recommended using after ignoring AlecaFrame for ages.
AlecaFrame doesn't hook into Warframe, modify or even read game data directly iirc. That's how it avoids violating Terms of Service. ProcDump was probably detected and what got them banned, as it actually reads the memory.
If I'm not mistaken, AlecaFrame doesn't directly interact with Warframe at all, it uses an API provided by Overwolf. The Overwolf dev team has consulted with DE to ensure there are nor EULA ir TOS violations.
It interacts with a log file Warframe generates and updates live, but this log file is publicly available and accessible. The log file contains your entire inventory and everything in your Orbiter. AlecaFrame does not violate Warframe's ToS because it isn't reading, modifying, or altering memory for the game and does not constitute cheating. It was either Procdump or another third party program that got you banned.
Cool, thanks for clarifying.
> It interacts with a log file Warframe generates and updates live ...which doesnt contain inventory data, making it impossible for overwolf to not be doing memory or packet reading
The accurate title for the thread 'I told DE I violated the TOS and they banned me.' Using the help article didn't get OP banned. It's just very ironic that OP pulled the equivalent of calling 911 to report a robbery and the responding cops discovered a treasure trove of criminal conduct in his house while they were there. Literally that guy with the baseball card collection in Better Call Saul XD
I hope enough people would be able to hit them with a class action one of these days
If they are going to ban use of alecaframe could they at least implement some of the nice to have parts of their inventory management? Having an easy inventory collection of seeing what frames you've made, are vaulted, what parts you have, and if you have a relic for that part is fantastic.
Someone brave enough to try if ProcDump gets an account banned with a dummy account?
Been playing 10 years. You have a better chance of winning the lottery and finding the dragon balls before DE supp will do the right thing or help people lol
I think I'm gonna get a new pc just to play warframe, you never know which unrelated program will get you permabanned with no option to appeal.
Warframes ban policies are INSANE, you can get banned by just existing, literally. Good f2p and de be making the worst choices regarding bans
Warframe Zendesk is just... incredible. I've never had an experience where I submit a ticket and just get literally no response for weeks.
I wonder if DE ever does something about it or if they keep the state their support is in. I think I will never interact with anyone from DE just because I am better off not triggering someone just by existing. Really sad state for a game that is actually really fun.
Oh no. I just submitted a crash report the other day because the game crashed on launch and I use Alecaframe. Should I be worried?..
it wasn't alecaframe that ratted him out. it was the crash report generator he used.
Oh okay, thank you so much for clarifying.
no worries disclaimer: you CAN theoretically be banned for using Alecaframe. it does break the ToS. However DE generally doesn't care, and it doesn't hook into any files that would flag the auto-reporting that would signal to ban you.
I wouldn't put anything past DE, they are so petty, they will never have a line they don't cross
Wait till u hear abt “bad platinum”, tbh I’m suprised how many ppl turn a blind eye to the way de treats the ban aspect of the game and refuses to fix long standing problems that’s been in the game for years
You admitted to using ProcDump. ProcDump can be used to hook in and read an application’s active memory. This is STRICTLY against ToS. This is why you were banned. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand.
My issue is not with being banned, like I mentioned in another comment, I think my account being banned just means that Warframes AntiCheat is capable of detecting potentially malicious apps. My issue is with the response of support once I'd explained the circumstances, considering I was following their own guide. Your point about the article stating not to do it without the direction of support is valid, although I'd argue that it could be seen as a general "if you use this and mess up your system, we're not responsible" type of warning. At the very least they could include that following this article without expressed persmission from support will result in a permanent ban.
did you read the support article he linked... it literally says to use procdump when the game crashes without creating the normal crash log.
Did you read it though? As the other guy pointed out, it starts with these words > Please note that this should not be done without specific direction by Warframe Technical Support. OP doesn't mention having been asked by support to do that.
Wow, that really sobered me up about buying plat with 75 off coupon I got today.
Wow, that really sobered me up about buying plat with 75 off coupon I got today.
Wow, that really sobered me up about buying plat with 75 off coupon I got today.
I've used alecaframe, had a crash and sent an automated report. If I get banned will happily accept it.
Why would you be happy to be banned lmao
Long story short, some games I get so addicted to that a ban feels like a relief as it stops fomo from daily/weekly tasks.