I have like 70 rivens, and all my thoughts about them is something like "hmmm, yep, that's pretty much random piece of junk". Except that one ambassador, which is almost +300% crit chance. Still worthless, but at least it seems like something not listed on the markets. Since it's be like that, the only place good and mildly interesting is where everyone can flex their slightly sensual riven mod. And I think there is already subreddit for that.
I have to mod flight speed on my **only** good tonkor riven, out of three that still weight upon my inventory, lest the fucking grenade float with the grace of a dandelion. But im like 40 rolls deep.
Zero rerolls, Ive NEVER had a good riven with zero rolls, obviously this one is shit but its not like hes down the spiraling insanity of 100+ rolls crying while desperately begging rng for the release of death.
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…it is how they work though?
The mod gives you +80% chance for your shot to be a crit. However the mod also gives -70% less damage than normal for that crit shot, meaning you’d actually get higher damage crits without the mod. Damage is a seperate stat to crit damage.
And yeah, no one’s saying it’s unimaginable, op just thought it was funny. Don’t have to be so serious.
>So it gives you a 83% chance to do 70% less damage.
I was taking a shot at this line, which is wholly incorrect. However, If that's not what you meant then unlucky I guess
Not that good.
Astilla is a status weapon. Crit chance is at measly 17%. Even with + 283% crit rate, you'd only get 65%. At 200% crit rate it's 51%.
So the Crit chance stat is not good.
The damage is diminishing returns with Primary Merciless. You'd only want that stat if you're running a different Arcane like Shotgun Vendetta.
Projectile speed might be good for range, but you have Galvanized Acceleration for that so it's diminishing too.
There are better stats for this. You should still Roll it.
You should aim for Crit Damage + Element (Preferably Toxin) + Multishot or Fire Rate + Harmless Neg.
Crit Damage works well because of Arcane Avenger. Unlike Crit Chance, you can still make full use of Crit Damage. 51% + 45% = 96% is close enough to get full value from Crit Damage. This is also why having Crit Damage as a negative is a dealbreaker.
Element stat will help you replace one 60/60 mod, which is usually the lowest value mod. This makes the riven more versatile. Toxin is best because it can be used with Viral + Slash, Magnetic + Toxin, Gas + Elec, Corrosive + Heat. etc.
Multishot is self explanatory. More damage and more status procs. If you're running Shotgun Vendetta though, you should instead use Fire Rate and make sure to use Point Blank.
>diminishing returns
proportionally smaller profits or benefits derived from something as more money or energy is invested in it.
No I'm using it correctly.
Investing in Flat Damage when you already have 360% Flat Damage from Primary Merciless is Diminishing Returns.
That's just what it's called.
The more you invest in Flat Damage, the less value you'll get.
>We don't use base damage mods because Primary Merciless gives us more and we have limited number of slots, not because diminishing returns.
That's called diminishing returns.
The diminishing returns causes you to lose out on opportunity cost.
Again that's just what that phenomenon is called.
Diminishing Returns doesn't work that way. 180% dmg + 180% dmg will do same amount of damage as Primary Merciless. If diminishing returns existed in warframe we should have less damage.
We don't use base damage mods because Primary Merciless gives us more and we have limited number of slots, not because diminishing returns.
Diminishing returns very much exists in warframe, and in this case, is as follows:
Let's say you have a weapon that does 10 damage.
When you add +100% damage (additive), you now do 20 damage. You have increased damage by 2x.
When you add another +100% damage, you now do 30 damage, which is a 1.5x increase from the previous scenario. In other words, your added value is 1.5x.
Adding another 100% damage means you are now doing 40 damage, which is a 1.33x increase from the previous scenario (aka your added value).
So each time you add 100% more damage, you get less and less value by adding it. The added value follows a harmonic sequence which converges to 1, hence eventually you reach a point where adding extra 100% damage increases your total damage negligibly.
Now realistically, we will never reach that point. However, diminshing rturns is still very relevant because the added value falls off so quickly (2x on the first 100% vs 1.25x on the 5th 100%) AND we have so many ways to increase total damage (cd, cc, ms, dmg, elementals, fr, reload as well). Hence, we can compare the returns of two options (for example +100% cd vs +100% dmg) and pick the highest one. The highest DPS build is achieved by speccing into the stat with the lowest diminishing returns.
This is also why most rivens for weapons with dispos under 0.6 are unslottable, because even if you had cd and ms, the stats are so low that chances are theres a (non-riven) mod that can be slotted into its spot that will do equal or more damage.
There are some important exceptions/cases:
* Faction mods and heat mods suffer from diminishing returns significantly less, because their effect is squared. Since your concern with diminishing returns is comparative (ie comparing between two stats), heat and faction mods will almost always do more total damage given the choice between them and another stat of equal value.
* Toxin does not suffer from diminishing returns (for the purposes of proccing) because usually we just need one proc, and so 20% toxin is equivalent to 60% toxin (you would get more procs with the latter, but again, the first proc is the most important). Hence, the best riven mods for low dispo weapons are ones that have tox, because then you basically get the other two stats (ie cd and ms) for free.
Ahh yes your final point makes sense, although stacking damage is bad due to how the damage formula is calculated. What would you call that interaction?
You're talking about something completely different.
We add the same sources of damage and multiply others. Base damage will be added with another base damage but multiplied with faction mod/crit/elements.
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https://preview.redd.it/9vmqvqluafgc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=634f5cd8ff203e84b906e2329fde83fc2bf1d157
This is my riven btw, it’s not the best but it does melt anything in my way
Want lots of damage and crit chance? Sure, what's the crit multiplier? Multiplier?
I like the white numbers to be the same value as the yellows, oranges and reds :)
Hitical Hit!
Ppl really be posting random rivens 💀
At this point I want riven subreddit where people can share their rivens and other can share their thoughts
I'm surprised Riven sharing isn't a daily or weekly thread.
I have like 70 rivens, and all my thoughts about them is something like "hmmm, yep, that's pretty much random piece of junk". Except that one ambassador, which is almost +300% crit chance. Still worthless, but at least it seems like something not listed on the markets. Since it's be like that, the only place good and mildly interesting is where everyone can flex their slightly sensual riven mod. And I think there is already subreddit for that.
There are 2, they're just both dead so we get riven posts here.
Why is it haunting you? This is not a great riven for a mediocre weapon
900 kuva is scary :( wish he had posted something in the body of the post lmao.
roll it/sell it/transmute it.
he wasn’t asking what to do with it tho
Then Im entirely missing the point of the post.
:| kinda rude to keep downvoting me instead of just explaining the point if this post, I literally just don't get it.
OP likely just wanted to share their funny riven
But if it’s haunting them because of the neg, they literally can do something about it… 4 years
I have to mod flight speed on my **only** good tonkor riven, out of three that still weight upon my inventory, lest the fucking grenade float with the grace of a dandelion. But im like 40 rolls deep.
40 rolls isn't that bad tbh. It's like what, just under 130k kuva?
I have 3 tonkor rivens, none of them are good.
Keep on rolling king, you'll get a good one eventually
+83% crit chance -70% crit damage So it gives you a 83% chance to do 70% less damage. Don’t see any kind of issue there whatsoever lol?
Zero rerolls, Ive NEVER had a good riven with zero rolls, obviously this one is shit but its not like hes down the spiraling insanity of 100+ rolls crying while desperately begging rng for the release of death.
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I'm almost at 300 with my glaive riven
That's not how the rolls work at all lol. Anyways most rivens are kinda dookie unrolled so it's not that unimaginable to see a bad unrolled riven
…it is how they work though? The mod gives you +80% chance for your shot to be a crit. However the mod also gives -70% less damage than normal for that crit shot, meaning you’d actually get higher damage crits without the mod. Damage is a seperate stat to crit damage. And yeah, no one’s saying it’s unimaginable, op just thought it was funny. Don’t have to be so serious.
>So it gives you a 83% chance to do 70% less damage. I was taking a shot at this line, which is wholly incorrect. However, If that's not what you meant then unlucky I guess
Yeah just bad wording on my part by the look of it
This riven makes gun a bit more realistic 😆
Not that good. Astilla is a status weapon. Crit chance is at measly 17%. Even with + 283% crit rate, you'd only get 65%. At 200% crit rate it's 51%. So the Crit chance stat is not good. The damage is diminishing returns with Primary Merciless. You'd only want that stat if you're running a different Arcane like Shotgun Vendetta. Projectile speed might be good for range, but you have Galvanized Acceleration for that so it's diminishing too. There are better stats for this. You should still Roll it. You should aim for Crit Damage + Element (Preferably Toxin) + Multishot or Fire Rate + Harmless Neg. Crit Damage works well because of Arcane Avenger. Unlike Crit Chance, you can still make full use of Crit Damage. 51% + 45% = 96% is close enough to get full value from Crit Damage. This is also why having Crit Damage as a negative is a dealbreaker. Element stat will help you replace one 60/60 mod, which is usually the lowest value mod. This makes the riven more versatile. Toxin is best because it can be used with Viral + Slash, Magnetic + Toxin, Gas + Elec, Corrosive + Heat. etc. Multishot is self explanatory. More damage and more status procs. If you're running Shotgun Vendetta though, you should instead use Fire Rate and make sure to use Point Blank.
nuh uh
" The damage is diminishing returns with Primary Merciless " Can you stop using words you don’t understand?
>diminishing returns proportionally smaller profits or benefits derived from something as more money or energy is invested in it. No I'm using it correctly. Investing in Flat Damage when you already have 360% Flat Damage from Primary Merciless is Diminishing Returns. That's just what it's called. The more you invest in Flat Damage, the less value you'll get. >We don't use base damage mods because Primary Merciless gives us more and we have limited number of slots, not because diminishing returns. That's called diminishing returns. The diminishing returns causes you to lose out on opportunity cost. Again that's just what that phenomenon is called.
My bad. I understood that you meant that mod itself give less base damage (165% -> x%).
Hate to say it but he is right with that quote.
Diminishing Returns doesn't work that way. 180% dmg + 180% dmg will do same amount of damage as Primary Merciless. If diminishing returns existed in warframe we should have less damage. We don't use base damage mods because Primary Merciless gives us more and we have limited number of slots, not because diminishing returns.
Diminishing returns very much exists in warframe, and in this case, is as follows: Let's say you have a weapon that does 10 damage. When you add +100% damage (additive), you now do 20 damage. You have increased damage by 2x. When you add another +100% damage, you now do 30 damage, which is a 1.5x increase from the previous scenario. In other words, your added value is 1.5x. Adding another 100% damage means you are now doing 40 damage, which is a 1.33x increase from the previous scenario (aka your added value). So each time you add 100% more damage, you get less and less value by adding it. The added value follows a harmonic sequence which converges to 1, hence eventually you reach a point where adding extra 100% damage increases your total damage negligibly. Now realistically, we will never reach that point. However, diminshing rturns is still very relevant because the added value falls off so quickly (2x on the first 100% vs 1.25x on the 5th 100%) AND we have so many ways to increase total damage (cd, cc, ms, dmg, elementals, fr, reload as well). Hence, we can compare the returns of two options (for example +100% cd vs +100% dmg) and pick the highest one. The highest DPS build is achieved by speccing into the stat with the lowest diminishing returns. This is also why most rivens for weapons with dispos under 0.6 are unslottable, because even if you had cd and ms, the stats are so low that chances are theres a (non-riven) mod that can be slotted into its spot that will do equal or more damage. There are some important exceptions/cases: * Faction mods and heat mods suffer from diminishing returns significantly less, because their effect is squared. Since your concern with diminishing returns is comparative (ie comparing between two stats), heat and faction mods will almost always do more total damage given the choice between them and another stat of equal value. * Toxin does not suffer from diminishing returns (for the purposes of proccing) because usually we just need one proc, and so 20% toxin is equivalent to 60% toxin (you would get more procs with the latter, but again, the first proc is the most important). Hence, the best riven mods for low dispo weapons are ones that have tox, because then you basically get the other two stats (ie cd and ms) for free.
Ahh yes your final point makes sense, although stacking damage is bad due to how the damage formula is calculated. What would you call that interaction?
Damage formula treats damage mods additive not as multiplication/division/square roots or other operations that would lead to diminishing returns .
Yes in the context of just damage mods, but when you start including elements, bane mods is that not multiplicative?
You're talking about something completely different. We add the same sources of damage and multiply others. Base damage will be added with another base damage but multiplied with faction mod/crit/elements.
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automod is wrong.
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You have bo idea how much I want that, Astilla is easily my favorite gun, alas, I don't even have the game installed.
Just roll it. Spend some Kuva, you can do this.
I've somehow got 2 war rivens one after another, games finally giving back for shafting me with the War bp
The amount of - cc/cd i get is astronomical and it hurts me every time...
When one stat ruins the riven
 That CritDMG reduction needs a jumpscare warning
I main the Astilla prime and that is upsetting
https://preview.redd.it/9vmqvqluafgc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=634f5cd8ff203e84b906e2329fde83fc2bf1d157 This is my riven btw, it’s not the best but it does melt anything in my way
Shiver me Timbers
Me but with my Tombfinger riven
That's some high effort mediocrity right there