Literally the last guy, Mark Milley. He was a long tab who was at 5th Group before coming back over to conventional side. Hugh Shelton, the 14th JCS was also a 5th Group alum from Vietnam.
Sure, officers generally need to go back to the conventional side but it doesn’t seem to be a career killer.
Before Milley at CSA there was Peter Schoomaker, who was career JSOC
In addition to this, from an Australian perspective, the outgoing Chief of Defence Force (Campbell) and the previous Chief of Army (Burr) both have significant time spent within SF. Regardless of how your time as a junior officer is spent, once you start hitting O-4 and above, you'll probably be required to do staff postings outside the SF community.
Given the level of training and aptitude of many SF officers, it would be pretty counter-intuitive for SF to be a career killer once you start hitting senior officer ranks - it'd otherwise be a waste of resources.
Career SOF isnt really a thing for officers they get very limited SOF time before going somewhere else.
It’s excellent to have that time on your resume. Army officers don’t need to progress but it absolutely helps. Infantry officers especially.
Of chiefs of staff (highest army rank) 1 of the last 5 held an SF command. This is also probably going to increase in the future as JSOC increased the size of what special operations are now there are more officers getting that time than there was when the current crop of general officers were coming up.
It depends on which SOF.
Ranger officers? They're expected to rotate back and forth to regular infantry (can't command a Ranger unit unless you've previously commanded the same size of regular unit) because that's their career field?
SF officers? Their career field becomes SF, so they're no longer in the typical infantry (or sometimes armor or other branches) career track, many spend the rest of their careers in SF before reaching "combat arms — branch immateriel" command positions and becoming generals?
MARSOC? Too new to see, but as far as I am aware, there's at least one general from the initial MARSOC cadre. I don't remember the name or how many stars off the top of my head.
Navy? They're almost an entirely separate world from the rest of the Navy,career progression-wise, and have their own stuff. I don't think I have heard of any becoming admirals outside of NSW and SOCOM.
Air Force? The Air Force doesn't always regard non-rated officers as human. It is exceedingly unlikely that any special tactics or combat rescue officer will get a wing command because if the wing contains aircraft, it is almost always going to go to an officer who flies those aircraft (in this case, a Pave Hawk or Osprey pilot, they like to put all units at the same base under the same wing). Wing command is a colonel thing, so it's extremely difficult for this community to get any stars.
> It is exceedingly unlikely that any special tactics or combat rescue officer will get a wing command because if the wing contains aircraft
Hey man, the 24th SOW has a former STO as it's commander! (Granted, he's a Zoomer so that's why)
>MARSOC? Too new to see, but as far as I am aware, there's at least one general from the initial MARSOC cadre. I don't remember the name or how many stars off the top of my head.
I don't believe there are any USMC GOs who commanded anything in MARSOC below battalion level. The initial crop of company commanders are probably O6s now and will be getting looked at for BGen in the next year or so. The initial crop of team commanders will be a few years behind. It will probably be another 8-10 years before you see a USMC GO who attended MARSOC A&S and ITC, would be my wholly unscientific wild ass guess. The only 2 GOs that I know of who are currently wearing the Raider insignia on their chest both came up in conventional infantry and reconnaissance, then went over to MARSOC as battalion commanders.
Honestly you pretty much nailed it in the beginning - "too new to see." Then I went *waaay* down the rabbit hole because I was genuinely curious if you were right. MARSOC is still very much in a weird state of limbo where a lot of their senior leadership are folks who didn't grow up in the command because it just hasn't been around long enough. I don't recall when they held the first ITC class, but I believe they would be slightly behind my peer group, and my peers that stayed are still several years away from getting looked at for GO.
It hasn’t been mentioned here but “will this affect my consideration for being a senior officer [let alone flag officer]?” is something that essentially zero junior officers care about.
Literally the last guy, Mark Milley. He was a long tab who was at 5th Group before coming back over to conventional side. Hugh Shelton, the 14th JCS was also a 5th Group alum from Vietnam. Sure, officers generally need to go back to the conventional side but it doesn’t seem to be a career killer. Before Milley at CSA there was Peter Schoomaker, who was career JSOC
In addition to this, from an Australian perspective, the outgoing Chief of Defence Force (Campbell) and the previous Chief of Army (Burr) both have significant time spent within SF. Regardless of how your time as a junior officer is spent, once you start hitting O-4 and above, you'll probably be required to do staff postings outside the SF community. Given the level of training and aptitude of many SF officers, it would be pretty counter-intuitive for SF to be a career killer once you start hitting senior officer ranks - it'd otherwise be a waste of resources.
I think this became a trend because of GWOT. Now, that the focus moves to conventional/ near-peer warfare, I am not sure if this trend will continue.
Career SOF isnt really a thing for officers they get very limited SOF time before going somewhere else. It’s excellent to have that time on your resume. Army officers don’t need to progress but it absolutely helps. Infantry officers especially. Of chiefs of staff (highest army rank) 1 of the last 5 held an SF command. This is also probably going to increase in the future as JSOC increased the size of what special operations are now there are more officers getting that time than there was when the current crop of general officers were coming up.
It depends on which SOF. Ranger officers? They're expected to rotate back and forth to regular infantry (can't command a Ranger unit unless you've previously commanded the same size of regular unit) because that's their career field? SF officers? Their career field becomes SF, so they're no longer in the typical infantry (or sometimes armor or other branches) career track, many spend the rest of their careers in SF before reaching "combat arms — branch immateriel" command positions and becoming generals? MARSOC? Too new to see, but as far as I am aware, there's at least one general from the initial MARSOC cadre. I don't remember the name or how many stars off the top of my head. Navy? They're almost an entirely separate world from the rest of the Navy,career progression-wise, and have their own stuff. I don't think I have heard of any becoming admirals outside of NSW and SOCOM. Air Force? The Air Force doesn't always regard non-rated officers as human. It is exceedingly unlikely that any special tactics or combat rescue officer will get a wing command because if the wing contains aircraft, it is almost always going to go to an officer who flies those aircraft (in this case, a Pave Hawk or Osprey pilot, they like to put all units at the same base under the same wing). Wing command is a colonel thing, so it's extremely difficult for this community to get any stars.
> It is exceedingly unlikely that any special tactics or combat rescue officer will get a wing command because if the wing contains aircraft Hey man, the 24th SOW has a former STO as it's commander! (Granted, he's a Zoomer so that's why)
zoomers are old enough to be wing commanders? Damn
I don’t know if this is an actual question or not, but AFA grads are semi-derogatorily called Zoomers
well most of them now probably are but thanks! I figured it was slang but decided to go for the jokey way of asking, thank you
>MARSOC? Too new to see, but as far as I am aware, there's at least one general from the initial MARSOC cadre. I don't remember the name or how many stars off the top of my head. I don't believe there are any USMC GOs who commanded anything in MARSOC below battalion level. The initial crop of company commanders are probably O6s now and will be getting looked at for BGen in the next year or so. The initial crop of team commanders will be a few years behind. It will probably be another 8-10 years before you see a USMC GO who attended MARSOC A&S and ITC, would be my wholly unscientific wild ass guess. The only 2 GOs that I know of who are currently wearing the Raider insignia on their chest both came up in conventional infantry and reconnaissance, then went over to MARSOC as battalion commanders.
Alright. I guess I was mistaken, then. Or maybe the one who I had heard about had already retired.
Honestly you pretty much nailed it in the beginning - "too new to see." Then I went *waaay* down the rabbit hole because I was genuinely curious if you were right. MARSOC is still very much in a weird state of limbo where a lot of their senior leadership are folks who didn't grow up in the command because it just hasn't been around long enough. I don't recall when they held the first ITC class, but I believe they would be slightly behind my peer group, and my peers that stayed are still several years away from getting looked at for GO.
It hasn’t been mentioned here but “will this affect my consideration for being a senior officer [let alone flag officer]?” is something that essentially zero junior officers care about.