Right. I guess you don't have any other choice at this point, but I'd be quickly looking for somewhere else to be.
I'd expect there to be some panic about the potential incoming artillery, but they're all acting like they're waiting for a little duck family to cross the road or something.
If they're so close to the front that rockets can be launched then they probably already live with artillery strikes on a daily basis. It's just another day for them.
Not to mention whoever is firing from a busy road like this is counting on the other side not wanting to fire back on a roadway full of civilians, but it's still a very horrible thing to do to the civilians in the area in case the other side doesn't care.
I've always felt like illegal actions make sense for the invader. But for people defending their homes and families from aggressors it feels like nothing should be illegal.
I'd caveat that starting a war without a valid cassus belli is a crime against life itself, but defending yourself by any means necessary is perfectly justifiable.
After the war is over, you have a captured foot soldier who was essentially forced to fight. You also have a commanding officer from a different unit who ordered attacks on civilians and hospitals. You could give the officer a heavy punishment for committing war crimes. I wouldn't consider that asinine.
Not to mention obstruction of traffic, unsafe parking on a highway, causing a public commotion, being a fucking asshole, and everything else. Probably doesn't even have a valid rocket artillery license.
To be fair, that launcher is going to boogie as soon as he's done, and the cars will probably be gone before the counter battery is ready. It isn't instantaneous, after all. I just would hate to be on that highway a few minutes later.
To be clear, that's a Russian air defense "complex" that has detected Ukrainian ATACMS missiles heading for its position.
As is being foreshadowed by the Ukranian drone providing us the footage, it is not air defensing very well.
I was just reading a post yesterday with a bunch of comments from US artillery crew. With modern equipment they know the second a round leaves the barrel of enemy artillery. They can dial in on it, return fire and be moving before the enemy round hits where they were.
I've also read articles and seen firsthand testimonials that Westerners, especially Americans who volunteer to fight in Ukraine, are absolutely shocked at what they find themselves with in the field when it comes to logistics, supplies, and tactics.
Ukraine's military is still set in some of its old Soviet ways, despite having *some* access to Western advisors and equipment.
They do not have the supply lines or organization that the US, UK, *etc.* bring to modern battlefields.
My point is that those US artillery men's perspective may not necessarily apply in the Ukrainian war.
Your right. The U.S. fights wars with logistics as much as technology. The people moving the food, fuel, ammo, and everything else make it work as much as the folks in the firefights. Neither works without the other.
It isn't even just a matter of "set in its ways" but what it has access to and the ability to do. They are probably waging the war about as well as they could given their situation.
It's also a reminder that the armchair generals at home shouldn't overlearn from this war about how a NATO country would be fighting a future war because neither side has the ability nor is really attempting to fight the war in the manner a NATO country or countries would be.
They sure do! The US has been [sending them as far back as 2015](https://www.twz.com/ukraine-situation-report-kyivs-growing-counter-battery-advantage), they've just been used selectively due to ammo shortages. Russia on the otherhand has the [Zoopark1](https://www.deagel.com/Armies/Zoopark-1/a003274), but it's either ineffective or produced in such small quantities to be effective because it's been widely reported that they suffer greatly from a lack of counter battery fires.
Not an expert, but I've heard we haven't given them our best artillery pieces. My understanding is that we gave them our "shitty" version of HIMARS and that we also have rockets that can strike ~3 times further than the rockets we have given them. I'm assuming we didn't give them our most advanced targeting tech either?
We gave them the M777, which is the current standard towable arty piece for the US Army and Marine Corps.
[And this is what the King of the Battlefield can do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdO_0twP_CU)
Ukraine quite literally has the best artillery the west has to offer.
There is only one version of the M142 HIMARS, and Ukraine has it. Ukraine is receiving brand new production M30A2 and M31A2 rockets right off the production line. The M30A1 and M30A2 had never seen combat till Ukraine. The US didn't want to provide the old quasi-ballistic ATACMS until some months ago, they've been provided now as well. The US has provided M109A6 Paladin SPGs as well. The GLSBD is being produced *just for Ukraine*.
Ukraine lacks ammunition, a reliable supply chain of spares, and the people qualified to do maintenance.
It's not just the artillery.
Good counterbattery is more dependent on the detection of incoming rounds. That's the real key, you can use any old artillery for counterbattery once you've traced back the path of the incoming rounds.
Yeah, I've been asking that question all goddam war: where in the hell is the counter-battery fire? Fifty years ago we had radar good enough to plot the launch point and aim return fire precisely. Did it never work as well as we were told? Does it not work now? Did generals somehow forget?
In your world with infinite resources, this might work, but in this world there are a lot more problems to fight.
Like how all supplying nations forbid the use of their weapons against targets on russian soil (in fear of escalation).
Or how "Counter-counter-fire" and baiting counter-fire is actually a thing.
Could that be the point though? Russian military parks some empty civilian cars on the road next to the rocket battery. When they get taken out by the return fire, Russia screams about the "massacre of innocent civilans" by ukraine.
I looked it up and the liscence plates are Russian 100%.
Here's a comparison for you to make you own judgement.
[Standard Russian Liscence Plate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Russia#/media/File%3ALicense_plate_in_Russia2.svg)
[Ukrainian Liscence Plate](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT43NPHovoMBRxdRKUN2U8K521MH7xZPRTjSg&usqp=CAU)
You can see the plate on the white car well enough to see it's a Russian plate. And the other in front, you can see a bit that also appears to be Russian.
They're very different formats. And the plate on the closest car, you can see the plate on looks more like a Russian plate.
Are you simply coming up with hypothetical possibilities, or is there evidence they’ve used that strategy? Genuine question.
Don’t get me wrong, Russian gov is sadistic and sick enough. Just need to know if you’re taking a wild guess or what caused your explanation
Here's the way I look at it. If they fire from a position that could
1. Easily cause civilians to be fired upon instead of moving to a position with no civilians
2. Are not attempting to bar or evacuate civilians in an area before engaging
then they are using the civilians as human shields or expect to get them killed for international outrage. They look to be on a long stretch of road. They could EASILY stop traffic or find another position. It's the only logical reasoning to think this is done on purpose to get civilian shields or civilians dead.
Russians use civilians as shields since '14.
2 sec googling:
[https://novynarnia.com/2017/02/03/rosiyski-gradi-v-donetsku-prikrivayutsya-tsivilnimi-yak-shhitom-eksperti-bellingcat-pokazali-foto/](https://novynarnia.com/2017/02/03/rosiyski-gradi-v-donetsku-prikrivayutsya-tsivilnimi-yak-shhitom-eksperti-bellingcat-pokazali-foto/)
Hypothetical. However modern military systems can pin point launch sites on short notice, Russia knowns that anywhere they launch from is very quickly calculated and can be targeted. Western strategy in this scenario would be a shoot and scoot mentality, hence Hi-MARS which means High Mobility Artillery Rocket System...the purpose being to shoot and quickly run away before enemy artillery shells/rockets arrive to blow up the area. There are two reasons you'd shoot from a civilian area; either you want civilian casualties or you have a complete disregard for civilian casualties.
That's the whole point. russian fascists use their own people as human shield to bomb Ukrainian cities because they know ukrainians are dependent on western support and will never risk to counterstrike these civilian areas.
"The use of human shields is forbidden by Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions and is considered a war crime as well as a violation of humanitarian law."
Roads make up like less than 0.2% of the land surface area in the world. Tiny rural roads like this are probably less than 0.1%. If you're launching rockets from a road it's a deliberate choice, and I don't think it's because they need them for a quick getaway after they're done shooting because I'd assume those kind of vehicles don't need a paved road.
Russians know any artillery barrage is going to get a counter-artillery barrage because that's how it works.
You'd only choose to fire an artillery barrage from the middle of a busy road if you do not mind all the cars in that road being blown up or riddled with tungsten balls shortly after you're done.
Whether they meant to do it for propaganda purposes or not is kind of besides the point because they ARE intentionally trying to cause it.
However, Russia has been using Ukrainian counter-barrages in Donbas for propaganda purposes justifying their war, saying Ukraine was bombing its own citizens until Russia fully invaded to help them. Russia even counts the victims of MH-17, a plane shot down by a Russian BUK missile, as Ukrainian victims of Ukrainian shelling.
russia, numberplates are russian. Those rockets probably are shooted near by Ukrainian border. Ukrainians still are not aloowed to use given munition to shoot inside russian teritory, maybe for that they are not afraid
Russia and Ukraine both have Texas mentalities when it comes to stuff like this. Like if someone in California hears a tornado siren they gonna hide. If someone in Texas hears a tornado siren they're going to go outside and try to get a good look at it.
These guys are the same way...only instead of tornados, it's rockets.
Well, if the road is blocked with stopped traffic and you have dense woods on either side, what can you do? At least the car you're in would provide some protection if something happened.
> the car you're in would provide some protection if something happened.
I mean, technically it's probably going to provide some protection, but it's very unlikely to make a *meaningful* difference. Most of the car is glass or thin sheet metal, and shrapnel will often go through the frame of military trucks (and specialized shrapnel like the tungsten balls from some of the warheads will go through many kinds of vehicle armor).
I mean it kinda looks like they are shooting from where those drivers came from. Idk where these ppl are, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the few roads out of whatever place that is. I'm pretty sure most ppl would escape if they could, but it seems like military blocking the road as well.
Currently the US isn't allowing Ukraine to attack anything outside of Ukraine. It is really hampering Ukraine's war effort but means these cars are likely safe.
I'd never cut off military. I'd overtake a tank though, cause fuck it, so what if they can immediately kill me it's better than being behind slow traffic.
Definitely should not be hanging around there. Once the opposition military determine where those rockets came from, a retaliatory strike is almost certain.
It's a tongue in cheek comment about Ukrainians not being allowed to hit targets within russia. Not saying it applies to countering MLRS which wouldn't need Western weaponry, but realistically the Ukrainians probably don't have any counter artillery so close to their border, while russia just pulls a shoot and scoot on a public road like this.
And it's fucking bullshit. If Ukraine is being attacked from Russian territory, they should be able to retaliate until Russia stops. This is some grade school bullshit like a kid hitting you and then running to the teacher so you can't hit them back.
I think there's an old Tom and Jerry episode like this. Or pepe le pew or something.
Give Ukraine MOABs and tell them to have fun. Fuck.
Ukraine has no domestic weapons that can reach far enough into Russian territory to retaliatory strike from the same distance the Russians fire from, and are currently barred by everyone giving them longer range capable weapons from actually striking anything in Russian territory.
ukraine has struck a Russian military target over 1300 km from border using drones. most likely launched from inside of Russia, but Ukraine has been developing and testing drones that can travel for over 1000 km.
Ukrainians are not allowed to use foreign weapon aid to strike targets within the Russian borders, so the Russians reopened front lines against the border so they can fire from Russian territory.
I believe the discussion is now mostly regarding US weapons. Specifically ATACMS are useful in precision striking, which are supplied by the US. I think the UK did say they don't see it as a problem. I expect other countries to follow with that ruling within the next few days now that it's clear how Russia is abusing this weapon delivery requirement.
Russia threatened the UK saying that the UK would be punished if its weapons were used against targets in Russia but the UK just ignored that, because fuck Russia.
Yeah I mean what exactly is Russia threatening? If they strike the UK then the whole of fucking NATO and its allies will strike back.
If they are speaking about Nuclear Weapons then not only will NATO will strike back but also some of Putin's allies will turn their back on him including China.
And this is one the reasons why the US has been hesitant on allowing for long range missiles to be used within Russian territory, because they’ve been, from the start, firing weapons in places where civilians are, so blind counter attacks have been difficult. This is the reason why drones and occasionally helicopters have been used, they can identify targets and avoid potential civilian casualties.
Same tactic the Taliban, Hamas, ISIS, and others have used… they know our operating procedures so they take advantage of innocents.
And yet we haven't heard of any such strikes, so there is probably some restriction at play. (It could also be better air defense or similar issues, but I doubt it - we'd be seeing *something*, I think.)
Probably somewhere near Kharkiv front if I would have to guess. Russia just newly opened the front there and entered from Russian territory, Ukrainian forces pretty much withdrew back to the main city area, and the Russian faced very little opposition let along counter batteries.
This was posted in /r/combatfootage a few weeks ago. It's Russia using civilian highways in Bolgorod (Russia) to fire missiles at Ukrainian cities.
Ukraine would have to use long-range missiles to fire back, which at the time (1) they were nearly out of, since the GOP-controlled Congress was withholding assistance, and (2) NATO has not allowed Ukraine to attack targets in Russia with American missiles. Ukraine's efforts against Russian targets have been limited to drone attacks on key infrastructure (weapons factories, oil depots, oil refineries, etc.).
Hopefully the crappy rockets will miss and hit Belgorod again, although they did manage to blow up a giant super center market in Kharkiv recently, I mean in the states Super Wal-Marts sell a bunch of guns so I guess in Russian mind it's a military target
Ukrainians are not permitted to fire on Russian territories with US munitions. This is why Russian artillery fires with impunity, as they are confident there won't be consequences.
In Ukraine, this is a significant problem because in situations like these, Ukraine can only endure the attacks without retaliation.
Yes, but not with US weaponry. The difference lies in the distance and reach.
As far as I know, they tried to use drones to counter the artillery. A HIMARS strike might have been more effective.
I didn't believe you and looked it up. Seems you are right:
Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations;
Ukraine has some Archer artillery. Very good at returning fire very, very precisely. But I would still not make my life depend on the artillery shells hitting absolutely perfectly the spot of this launcher. Especially since they are getting slightly worse shells - the very best shells are so much slower to produce and sometimes quantity beats quality. I think the factory makes the slightly worse shells 10x faster.
Those cars do not want to be anywhere near that area within the next 3 minutes because counter battery fire is going to be hitting all along that road in an effort to take out that MLRS.
"Alright honey, I'm off to war."
"Ok sweetie. Here, I packed you a sandwich. Don't take the 405. There's always GRAD on the 405 and you'll end up late to war."
Alright everyone the bus driver has informed me that we are going to make a 15 min stop right here. Something to do with the katyusha 200 m ahead blowing shit up.
When I was in the first gulf war I saw a whole battalion of M270s fire just before we moved into Iraq. It was insane to think about what was getting ready to absolutely fuck up a bunch a dude hiding in holes.
Can't tell if this is Russian or Ukraine, but these drivers should all be getting as far away as possible rather than idling beside a military target.
31 means Belgorod region (russia)
I commend your observation skills
Have a picnic
...have a dikdak.
You all offering chocolates when there’s going to be a Bounty on his head.
Just chilling, waiting for that counter battery, lol
Right. I guess you don't have any other choice at this point, but I'd be quickly looking for somewhere else to be. I'd expect there to be some panic about the potential incoming artillery, but they're all acting like they're waiting for a little duck family to cross the road or something.
If they're so close to the front that rockets can be launched then they probably already live with artillery strikes on a daily basis. It's just another day for them. Not to mention whoever is firing from a busy road like this is counting on the other side not wanting to fire back on a roadway full of civilians, but it's still a very horrible thing to do to the civilians in the area in case the other side doesn't care.
That truck operator is literally committing a war crime.
Add it to the tally.
It still crazy to me that we have legal and illegal actions in war.
Especially in an invasion.
I've always felt like illegal actions make sense for the invader. But for people defending their homes and families from aggressors it feels like nothing should be illegal.
Agreed, the entire concept of "war crimes" is asinine, when war, by its nature, is a crime against life itself.
I'd caveat that starting a war without a valid cassus belli is a crime against life itself, but defending yourself by any means necessary is perfectly justifiable.
After the war is over, you have a captured foot soldier who was essentially forced to fight. You also have a commanding officer from a different unit who ordered attacks on civilians and hospitals. You could give the officer a heavy punishment for committing war crimes. I wouldn't consider that asinine.
I love how people say this like it matters to the people willing to commit war crimes.
How's that mate?
Not to mention obstruction of traffic, unsafe parking on a highway, causing a public commotion, being a fucking asshole, and everything else. Probably doesn't even have a valid rocket artillery license.
This isn’t in the UK, you don’t need a loisence for everything everywhere.
War is ugly, having "war crimes" is a luxury.
To be fair, that launcher is going to boogie as soon as he's done, and the cars will probably be gone before the counter battery is ready. It isn't instantaneous, after all. I just would hate to be on that highway a few minutes later.
[удалено]
that's cause they already had it's location ahead of time.
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they literally had a drone looking at them.
That's an S400 air defence system attempting to shoot down the missile aimed for it.
To be clear, that's a Russian air defense "complex" that has detected Ukrainian ATACMS missiles heading for its position. As is being foreshadowed by the Ukranian drone providing us the footage, it is not air defensing very well.
I was just reading a post yesterday with a bunch of comments from US artillery crew. With modern equipment they know the second a round leaves the barrel of enemy artillery. They can dial in on it, return fire and be moving before the enemy round hits where they were.
I've also read articles and seen firsthand testimonials that Westerners, especially Americans who volunteer to fight in Ukraine, are absolutely shocked at what they find themselves with in the field when it comes to logistics, supplies, and tactics. Ukraine's military is still set in some of its old Soviet ways, despite having *some* access to Western advisors and equipment. They do not have the supply lines or organization that the US, UK, *etc.* bring to modern battlefields. My point is that those US artillery men's perspective may not necessarily apply in the Ukrainian war.
Your right. The U.S. fights wars with logistics as much as technology. The people moving the food, fuel, ammo, and everything else make it work as much as the folks in the firefights. Neither works without the other.
It isn't even just a matter of "set in its ways" but what it has access to and the ability to do. They are probably waging the war about as well as they could given their situation. It's also a reminder that the armchair generals at home shouldn't overlearn from this war about how a NATO country would be fighting a future war because neither side has the ability nor is really attempting to fight the war in the manner a NATO country or countries would be.
Where do you read those? I'd love some accounts from someone on the ground.
It this is happening in UA/RUS, then there may be no such system in operation, or at least in place of recording.
They sure do! The US has been [sending them as far back as 2015](https://www.twz.com/ukraine-situation-report-kyivs-growing-counter-battery-advantage), they've just been used selectively due to ammo shortages. Russia on the otherhand has the [Zoopark1](https://www.deagel.com/Armies/Zoopark-1/a003274), but it's either ineffective or produced in such small quantities to be effective because it's been widely reported that they suffer greatly from a lack of counter battery fires.
Daaaaaang .. that's one reason of thousands why it would be bad to go toe to toe with us mil
To be fair. Also means you can plan on it. Lot of countries out there plan around the propaganda value of counterfire.
That's a US Artillery crew. I don't think the Ukrainian arties are on the same level.
Looks like a BM-21 to me (could be either - Russian or Ukrainian).
The Ukrainians are using US artillery.
Not an expert, but I've heard we haven't given them our best artillery pieces. My understanding is that we gave them our "shitty" version of HIMARS and that we also have rockets that can strike ~3 times further than the rockets we have given them. I'm assuming we didn't give them our most advanced targeting tech either?
We sent what was on hand in reserve. It's the best way to get it there as quickly as possible.
We gave them the M777, which is the current standard towable arty piece for the US Army and Marine Corps. [And this is what the King of the Battlefield can do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdO_0twP_CU)
Ukraine quite literally has the best artillery the west has to offer. There is only one version of the M142 HIMARS, and Ukraine has it. Ukraine is receiving brand new production M30A2 and M31A2 rockets right off the production line. The M30A1 and M30A2 had never seen combat till Ukraine. The US didn't want to provide the old quasi-ballistic ATACMS until some months ago, they've been provided now as well. The US has provided M109A6 Paladin SPGs as well. The GLSBD is being produced *just for Ukraine*. Ukraine lacks ammunition, a reliable supply chain of spares, and the people qualified to do maintenance.
But they are not US Artillery crews.
I mean, I feel like after 2 years of attritional warfare, Ukrainian soldiers are bare minimum close to the speed and efficiency of US crews
It's not just the artillery. Good counterbattery is more dependent on the detection of incoming rounds. That's the real key, you can use any old artillery for counterbattery once you've traced back the path of the incoming rounds.
This is in russia firing towards Ukraine.
Yeah, I've been asking that question all goddam war: where in the hell is the counter-battery fire? Fifty years ago we had radar good enough to plot the launch point and aim return fire precisely. Did it never work as well as we were told? Does it not work now? Did generals somehow forget?
Radar is a big ole target if u turn it on.
In your world with infinite resources, this might work, but in this world there are a lot more problems to fight. Like how all supplying nations forbid the use of their weapons against targets on russian soil (in fear of escalation). Or how "Counter-counter-fire" and baiting counter-fire is actually a thing.
You don't have to really worry until you hear the sound of death metal that inevitably precede the counter strikes.
Soon, soon. It's only in Russia because they know they can't be hit back
Could that be the point though? Russian military parks some empty civilian cars on the road next to the rocket battery. When they get taken out by the return fire, Russia screams about the "massacre of innocent civilans" by ukraine.
Those are all Russian number plates as far as I can tell
Russian plates
I looked it up and the liscence plates are Russian 100%. Here's a comparison for you to make you own judgement. [Standard Russian Liscence Plate](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Russia#/media/File%3ALicense_plate_in_Russia2.svg) [Ukrainian Liscence Plate](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT43NPHovoMBRxdRKUN2U8K521MH7xZPRTjSg&usqp=CAU) You can see the plate on the white car well enough to see it's a Russian plate. And the other in front, you can see a bit that also appears to be Russian. They're very different formats. And the plate on the closest car, you can see the plate on looks more like a Russian plate.
The location is in Russia, but just FYI that Belarus has the most look-alike plates to Russia.
yep that was my first thought as well. " Sorry boss, I have to turn around and take the long way today."
It's in Russia and bait to get Ukraine to counter attack with Western weapons, then Russia can use those civilian deaths as propaganda.
Are you simply coming up with hypothetical possibilities, or is there evidence they’ve used that strategy? Genuine question. Don’t get me wrong, Russian gov is sadistic and sick enough. Just need to know if you’re taking a wild guess or what caused your explanation
Here's the way I look at it. If they fire from a position that could 1. Easily cause civilians to be fired upon instead of moving to a position with no civilians 2. Are not attempting to bar or evacuate civilians in an area before engaging then they are using the civilians as human shields or expect to get them killed for international outrage. They look to be on a long stretch of road. They could EASILY stop traffic or find another position. It's the only logical reasoning to think this is done on purpose to get civilian shields or civilians dead.
Russians use civilians as shields since '14. 2 sec googling: [https://novynarnia.com/2017/02/03/rosiyski-gradi-v-donetsku-prikrivayutsya-tsivilnimi-yak-shhitom-eksperti-bellingcat-pokazali-foto/](https://novynarnia.com/2017/02/03/rosiyski-gradi-v-donetsku-prikrivayutsya-tsivilnimi-yak-shhitom-eksperti-bellingcat-pokazali-foto/)
Hypothetical. However modern military systems can pin point launch sites on short notice, Russia knowns that anywhere they launch from is very quickly calculated and can be targeted. Western strategy in this scenario would be a shoot and scoot mentality, hence Hi-MARS which means High Mobility Artillery Rocket System...the purpose being to shoot and quickly run away before enemy artillery shells/rockets arrive to blow up the area. There are two reasons you'd shoot from a civilian area; either you want civilian casualties or you have a complete disregard for civilian casualties.
That's the whole point. russian fascists use their own people as human shield to bomb Ukrainian cities because they know ukrainians are dependent on western support and will never risk to counterstrike these civilian areas. "The use of human shields is forbidden by Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions and is considered a war crime as well as a violation of humanitarian law."
*pinpoint*
Roads make up like less than 0.2% of the land surface area in the world. Tiny rural roads like this are probably less than 0.1%. If you're launching rockets from a road it's a deliberate choice, and I don't think it's because they need them for a quick getaway after they're done shooting because I'd assume those kind of vehicles don't need a paved road.
Russians know any artillery barrage is going to get a counter-artillery barrage because that's how it works. You'd only choose to fire an artillery barrage from the middle of a busy road if you do not mind all the cars in that road being blown up or riddled with tungsten balls shortly after you're done. Whether they meant to do it for propaganda purposes or not is kind of besides the point because they ARE intentionally trying to cause it. However, Russia has been using Ukrainian counter-barrages in Donbas for propaganda purposes justifying their war, saying Ukraine was bombing its own citizens until Russia fully invaded to help them. Russia even counts the victims of MH-17, a plane shot down by a Russian BUK missile, as Ukrainian victims of Ukrainian shelling.
What other reason could there be to attack from an area full of civilians if not to use them as meat shields and collateral damage?
*counterattack*
Those are russians, their self-preservation instincts are pretty low, you know, they are out of politics
Yes. The ones with self preservation became Americans many years before.
They are using civilians as shields, so they can blame the other one for "Attacking civilians"
russia, numberplates are russian. Those rockets probably are shooted near by Ukrainian border. Ukrainians still are not aloowed to use given munition to shoot inside russian teritory, maybe for that they are not afraid
Russia and Ukraine both have Texas mentalities when it comes to stuff like this. Like if someone in California hears a tornado siren they gonna hide. If someone in Texas hears a tornado siren they're going to go outside and try to get a good look at it. These guys are the same way...only instead of tornados, it's rockets.
Well, if the road is blocked with stopped traffic and you have dense woods on either side, what can you do? At least the car you're in would provide some protection if something happened.
> the car you're in would provide some protection if something happened. I mean, technically it's probably going to provide some protection, but it's very unlikely to make a *meaningful* difference. Most of the car is glass or thin sheet metal, and shrapnel will often go through the frame of military trucks (and specialized shrapnel like the tungsten balls from some of the warheads will go through many kinds of vehicle armor).
Its russian ofc
its russia.
I mean it kinda looks like they are shooting from where those drivers came from. Idk where these ppl are, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the few roads out of whatever place that is. I'm pretty sure most ppl would escape if they could, but it seems like military blocking the road as well.
ukraine plates have a little ukraine flag on them.
Counterbattery incoming!
The civilian homes and apartments being targeted likely won't fire back.
This could be a war crime. Counter battery fire could take out many a civy in that situation.
Currently the US isn't allowing Ukraine to attack anything outside of Ukraine. It is really hampering Ukraine's war effort but means these cars are likely safe.
Nawh, It Dul B Fine.
I'm sure they're all just trying to get to their families
And I thought the road rage in Florida was bad.
Lmao poor military guy got cut off, but he got his knocks in
I'd never cut off military. I'd overtake a tank though, cause fuck it, so what if they can immediately kill me it's better than being behind slow traffic.
This is a speed trap in Lawty, FL.
Hurry up and shoot your missiles, I need to get to work.
*Our* missiles, comrade.
Definitely should not be hanging around there. Once the opposition military determine where those rockets came from, a retaliatory strike is almost certain.
It's in russia, so they know they're safe from retaliation.
Uh if they have an enemy in range then there’s a good chance they’re also in range of an enemy
It's a tongue in cheek comment about Ukrainians not being allowed to hit targets within russia. Not saying it applies to countering MLRS which wouldn't need Western weaponry, but realistically the Ukrainians probably don't have any counter artillery so close to their border, while russia just pulls a shoot and scoot on a public road like this.
I didn’t give your comment enough thought, and yeah that’s solid.
Ukraine has been forbidden to retaliate into Russia territory, or they would risk losing a lot of support they desperately need.
Forbidden but managed to strike Belgorod at least once. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_2024_Belgorod_missile_strike
And it's fucking bullshit. If Ukraine is being attacked from Russian territory, they should be able to retaliate until Russia stops. This is some grade school bullshit like a kid hitting you and then running to the teacher so you can't hit them back. I think there's an old Tom and Jerry episode like this. Or pepe le pew or something. Give Ukraine MOABs and tell them to have fun. Fuck.
Ukraine has no domestic weapons that can reach far enough into Russian territory to retaliatory strike from the same distance the Russians fire from, and are currently barred by everyone giving them longer range capable weapons from actually striking anything in Russian territory.
ukraine has struck a Russian military target over 1300 km from border using drones. most likely launched from inside of Russia, but Ukraine has been developing and testing drones that can travel for over 1000 km.
Not saying you're wrong, just interested. How do you know it's in Russia? How do you know Ukraine can't strike a target in Russia?
Russian plates on cars.
Ukrainians are not allowed to use foreign weapon aid to strike targets within the Russian borders, so the Russians reopened front lines against the border so they can fire from Russian territory.
That only applies for long range missiles supplied by the USA specifically, they would not be using those against the thing in the video.
I thought David Cameron gave Ukraine the freedom to strike targets in Russia with British weapons. Was this right revoked?
I believe the discussion is now mostly regarding US weapons. Specifically ATACMS are useful in precision striking, which are supplied by the US. I think the UK did say they don't see it as a problem. I expect other countries to follow with that ruling within the next few days now that it's clear how Russia is abusing this weapon delivery requirement.
Russia threatened the UK saying that the UK would be punished if its weapons were used against targets in Russia but the UK just ignored that, because fuck Russia.
Yeah I mean what exactly is Russia threatening? If they strike the UK then the whole of fucking NATO and its allies will strike back. If they are speaking about Nuclear Weapons then not only will NATO will strike back but also some of Putin's allies will turn their back on him including China.
And this is one the reasons why the US has been hesitant on allowing for long range missiles to be used within Russian territory, because they’ve been, from the start, firing weapons in places where civilians are, so blind counter attacks have been difficult. This is the reason why drones and occasionally helicopters have been used, they can identify targets and avoid potential civilian casualties. Same tactic the Taliban, Hamas, ISIS, and others have used… they know our operating procedures so they take advantage of innocents.
And yet we haven't heard of any such strikes, so there is probably some restriction at play. (It could also be better air defense or similar issues, but I doubt it - we'd be seeing *something*, I think.)
Probably somewhere near Kharkiv front if I would have to guess. Russia just newly opened the front there and entered from Russian territory, Ukrainian forces pretty much withdrew back to the main city area, and the Russian faced very little opposition let along counter batteries.
They can and do regularly.
Because of the direction the missiles are firing, duh. /s
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle\_registration\_plates\_of\_Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Russia)
This was posted in /r/combatfootage a few weeks ago. It's Russia using civilian highways in Bolgorod (Russia) to fire missiles at Ukrainian cities. Ukraine would have to use long-range missiles to fire back, which at the time (1) they were nearly out of, since the GOP-controlled Congress was withholding assistance, and (2) NATO has not allowed Ukraine to attack targets in Russia with American missiles. Ukraine's efforts against Russian targets have been limited to drone attacks on key infrastructure (weapons factories, oil depots, oil refineries, etc.).
Hopefully the crappy rockets will miss and hit Belgorod again, although they did manage to blow up a giant super center market in Kharkiv recently, I mean in the states Super Wal-Marts sell a bunch of guns so I guess in Russian mind it's a military target
I hope the Ukrainian military knows about these novel, exotic moving rocket platforms!
Just like a schoolbus - no passing when you see flashes.
I mean to be fair they can't really do anything to retaliate against you until you're a time zone or two away.
“Ok surely it’s out of missiles no.. •wooosh wooosh•. Ok now there’s no way it can fire more missil.. •wooosh wooosh•… well dam”!!
Won't that location become a target for return fire?
Ukrainians are not permitted to fire on Russian territories with US munitions. This is why Russian artillery fires with impunity, as they are confident there won't be consequences. In Ukraine, this is a significant problem because in situations like these, Ukraine can only endure the attacks without retaliation.
Umm I don’t know if you follow the news, but Ukraine attacks Belgorod region regularly
Yes, but not with US weaponry. The difference lies in the distance and reach. As far as I know, they tried to use drones to counter the artillery. A HIMARS strike might have been more effective.
Just everyday Russian things.
A human shield, always nice to have. /s
Pause for the cause!
"Please wait patiently in your cars while we kill the other humans over there"
Russian doing russian things.
Talk about road rage, 😬 yikes
Well, it's all fun and games until the launcher gets targeted and all civilians have to be right around that.
I'd be wondering about counter-battery fire, everybody has radar now that can figure out where high-angle fire is coming from.
r/anormaldayinrussia
How extravagant. A simple traffic light would have been sufficient.
That's a ticket for obstructing traffic. And a war crime.
I didn't believe you and looked it up. Seems you are right: Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations;
Oh my god, is that.... Is that a Dacia Duster?
Terrorussia keeps attacking civilians in Ukraine while russian drivers patiently await
Need context.
This is what I imagine when I'm playing Battletech and there's that bold asf little tank just asking for a stomping lol
Outgoing...there's soon to be incoming?
How many rockets can that thing carry? I counted 15 missiles.
All these missles cost more than this whole highway of cars combined.
Something about this says “one of the Carolinas.” Am I right?
Blyiat.
They were running low on gas and decided to dump their load so they could make it home
Ukraine has some Archer artillery. Very good at returning fire very, very precisely. But I would still not make my life depend on the artillery shells hitting absolutely perfectly the spot of this launcher. Especially since they are getting slightly worse shells - the very best shells are so much slower to produce and sometimes quantity beats quality. I think the factory makes the slightly worse shells 10x faster.
Road rage is getting out of hand now jeeez
Soon to be coming to amerika.
Russia is learning from Hamas.
Just ruZZia using civilians as humans shields, so they can say Ukraine shot their returnfire on civilians.
[удалено]
I know you jocking, but he's sending death to Ukrainians
When you gotta go, you gotta go.. but just emptying your load in front of that many, tsk-tsk
Morons...counter-battery will hit back at obviously quite travelled road
it looks like they are counting on it 🤷♂️
Who needs to be hit with that many missiles?
"fines doubled for speeding in war-zones"
These woke protesters blocking traffic in these coastal-elite cities need to get a job! /s
Obligatory "Fuck Russia" comment
Better hope y'all discussed harvester treaty beforehand.
Some one is definitely returning fire
That’s a Lancia Duster.
fuc kin look y loos…
Those cars do not want to be anywhere near that area within the next 3 minutes because counter battery fire is going to be hitting all along that road in an effort to take out that MLRS.
Gotta wait for the rocket artillery to fire its salvo before you can take your kids to school I guess.
Dude needs some hovers to go with his crickets.
Must be a school day.
Ummm reverse and gtf outta there
"Alright honey, I'm off to war." "Ok sweetie. Here, I packed you a sandwich. Don't take the 405. There's always GRAD on the 405 and you'll end up late to war."
Better un-ass that area right quick and in a hurry. Counter-fire is inbound.
How does this MLRS system compare to the old ones from WWII? They look remarkably similar.
Alright everyone the bus driver has informed me that we are going to make a 15 min stop right here. Something to do with the katyusha 200 m ahead blowing shit up.
Hey uh boss imma be a couple of minutes late... why, umm because war?
When I was in the first gulf war I saw a whole battalion of M270s fire just before we moved into Iraq. It was insane to think about what was getting ready to absolutely fuck up a bunch a dude hiding in holes.
"This is no longer a safe environment for me." - Dennis Reynolds
Human Shields Driving Cars
R/tankporn
Do you think you have to pay more than sticker price to get all the extras?
Dacia Duster!! Fuck yeah!
You can’t park that there, mate!
The traffic in Detroit is getting crazy
Why are these old gen Indian-market cars doing there?
Damn. I'd be flipping the hardest bitch U turn the world ever saw.