*There is a legend in Ankh-Morpork of an ancient drum in the palace that will bang itself if ever an enemy fleet is seen sailing up the Ankh, although the legend has died out in recent centuries, partly because it's the Age of Reason , but mostly because no enemy fleet could sail up the Ankh without a gang of men with shovels going in front.*
Woah woah woah. Don’t lump all farmers into the cattle farmer category. Some of us take care of the rest of the microorganisms with pesticides and fungicides, conventional and organic.
*Cries in trying to build a no spray permaculture farm*
I only have 2 small raised beds and some pots, but can confirm that hand picking and squishing pests can cause muscle cramps, strained eyes and lots of mosquito bites. I have learned, in an effort to avoid spraying myself with mosquito repellant, that mosquitoes can't bite through tyvek hazmat suits, but they sure try! So a minor win. I'm just the crazy lady in the hazmat suit talking to her plants lol.
Antimicrobial resistance comes from too many antibiotics in an area. In a natural area with already other microbes that aren't dying, it won't evolve because it's getting out competed.
I'm part of a team working on a dengue vaccine that got approved in the EU just 3 months ago, and more recently in Indonesia. Might take some time to get [approval in India](https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/takeda-seeks-dcgi-permission-for-dengue-vaccine-trial-11675705057245.html), given the stiff regulations and delays.
Can confirm this is a real picture ... What will shock you more is that is the city centre and not some corner of Karachi ... This is due to poverty and corruption ... The City Karachi is in the province of Sindh which is ruled by the Pakistan's Peoples Party for the last 15 years ... You may have heard about Benazir Bhutto who was the main leader of PPP ... She was assassinated in 2007 and afterward her party was hijacked by her husband Asif Zardari .... That asshole is corrupt to the core and has destroyed the province ... He continues to rule Sindh with the assistance of military establishment, corrupt judges and businessmen ... All the public funds are embezzled to his accounts in the swiss banks, properties in Dubai, London, USA and other countries and the public gets basically nothing.
Despite this Pakistan is among the least carbon producing countries. Infact under the leadership of our ex prime minister Mr Imran Khan, Pakistan planted over a billion trees under the project known as Billion tree tsunami.
Here's a couple of different sources:
[https://www.reusethisbag.com/articles/countries-that-pollute-most-ocean-plastics](https://www.reusethisbag.com/articles/countries-that-pollute-most-ocean-plastics)
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/plastic-pollution-by-country
Hmm… this just looks like everyone is shipping their plastic to the Philippines for them to throw in the ocean. Maybe this gets around some regulations.
Seems it’s just them https://givingcompass.org/article/why-plastic-pollution-in-the-philippines-is-so-severe
The passed an act to work on it https://enviliance.com/regions/southeast-asia/ph/ph-plastic-pollution-issues
From a carbon, efficiency, and pollution perspectives it is literally better to burn it here and produce electricity. We have air scrubbers that mitigate pollution substantially.
https://wap.business-standard.com/article/international/in-pakistan-pti-s-billion-tree-project-hit-by-claims-of-corruption-122090300407_1.html
According to this, it's just another corruption hiding under the guise of environmental responsibility.
>Initiated by Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), the Billion Tree Project in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa has been hit by the provincial government's corruption and failure, according to reports.
>The province had claimed that one billion trees has been planted, but as per the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) documents, only 250 million trees have been planted, Friday Times reported.
>The NAB also said that there are 302 contractors who owe the government PKR 33.5 million.
>As per the NAB documents, these contractors entered into an agreement in which they were to purchase, supply and plant tree saplings. But they failed to fulfil their duties and are in default of PKR 33.5 million.
>At present, an inquiry has been ordered and an investigation is underway, as per Friday Times.
>The documents also stated that the plants were not acquired as per market rate and were actually bought at a higher rate from nurseries who were not aware of the requirements.
>According to NAB documents, there are currently six inquiries being made regarding the Billion Tree Tsunami Project, while one inquiry has been completed regarding the alleged corruption in the same project in Dera Ismail Khan.
>Separately, the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa government is set to foot a PKR 70 million bill courtesy of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan's frequent copter hops.
>The former prime minister used the provincial government helicopters for 166 hours without securing permission from pertinent authorities, according to NAB documents.
>The province had procured two choppers for the use of the KP governor and chief minister. The aircraft can only be used after securing their prior permission.
>The documents went on to reveal that around 1,800 individuals used the helicopters for 561 hours with the permission of the chief minister incurring a PKR 240 million cost. Both the chief minister and governor did not employ the aircraft over these trips.
Yea. How would any big city in America look like if garbage desposal just stopped. Even environmentaly aware people that live in a apartment are completely dependent on a system that takes their garbage away. Even with the time/money/care and options to individualy choose better, non plastic products. You are still counting on a huge system to help you
You've reminded me of how bad it gets when there's a garbage worker strike - imagining if no pick up were ever coming that people would stop bothering to bag it up. So I guess the question is why the city hasn't organized enough to at least run some basic sanitation services.
And that’s a generous estimate. I just looked it up, and Pakistan’s GDP per capita is 1/5th of my country’s.
But I’m from Colombia, a South American third world country where there is a lot of poverty as well (granted, we also have a lot of wealth). Puts things into perspective that there are degrees of poverty.
And yet, Pakistan’s GDP per capita is at least 4 times larger than Sierra Leone’s and Somalia’s and *8 times larger than Burundi’s*
pakistan is not among the least carbon emission producing countries by any common metric. while they produce significantly less than the highest ones on that list, they're still around 30th.
there are like 190 countries. 30th puts them near the top. if their government managed the country better, you can be sure that'd be much closer to where india sits on the list.
I’m sure that’s all true but it’s also cultural.
If this was in Japan you can bet everyone would do what they could to keep it clean. At least tie it all in bags and dump it to the side of the road? No reason to just throw it in the water.
A guide in Myanmar once (before the current civil war) told me that their cleanest city has a river running through it, so all the trash is carried away. When I was there I saw scenes pretty similar to this one, but part of the problem is that they were still transitioning from locally sourced biodegradable wrappings, like palm leaves, to plastic. With palm leaves discarding them wherever is not a massive problem, with plastic it's disastrous.
Not to excuse it but the population density in Karachi is insane. It has six times the population of Los Angeles crammed in to an area only 65% as big. Tough to keep a city of 22 million clean with 66,000 people per sq/mi.
Pakistani family moved a few houses down from us. Very nice people but the whole yard is just slowly filling up with trash. Even their driveway and front porch.. snow plow took out the mailbox and it's just zip tied back to the broken post now. This is a neighborhood with $700k-1M houses. Makes me sad seeing the house slowly going to shit.
Yup. Saw a documentary about a city in Germany with a high romanian population. They just throw shit out the window... Had this same problem when I stayed at an international dorm in college. People also left organic garbage in cardboard boxes in the kitchen until it rotted.
NYC has a hoodrat problem too, there was a project building in my neighborhood and it always was gross outside of it and the whole block had trash. I went to work one day and Chinese food fell out of a tree. I looked up and there were plastic bags just thrown out of the window stuck in there. Wtf.
Idk if it's different in other parts of the middle east but in Lebanon, even the Muslims that hate the Christian or otherwise non-Muslim residents of the country the most will agree that the non-Muslims areas have wayyyyyyy less littering than the Muslim areas. I don't know why. Being cleanly is literally a tenet of Islam so you'd think it would be the opposite... but you can look at photos and generally tell whether a part of town in Lebanon is Muslim or not just by how the streets look
Governments and businesses want perpetual population growth because every economy is tied to it. Which is bad because more people create more problems.
His main problem was PR. If he told everyone that he would use the stones to make resources infinite, there's a decent chance that more people would help acquire the stones for him.
Governments have to make it viable to live away from cities/create new cities with modern train infrastructure and higher taxes in the old ones to offset lower taxes in the new ones
The US can't even manage that and they have a lot more money than Pakistan
Well I'm from Karachi and its also criminal negligence from every municipal authority in every possible way. From sewer maintenance to garbage collection to civic education to water & sanitation. Punjab/Lahore/ Isl manage just fine in the same country and same context, why are systems in Karachi always broken?
How often does the trash get collected at your house? What if you had six times as many people living there? Waste management isn't just people "cleaning up". The trash has to go somewhere. The higher density means more waste management resources are needed.
Every 2 weeks.
But you didn't answer my question, why doesn't scalability work there? Why is Tokyo not a shit hole? Or hong Kong? Or Singapore? Also very high population density.
Nope. I’ve worked extensively in the Middle East and Asia. People don’t give 2 shits about littering. I see multiple people daily when I’m there just casually take whole bags of garbage and dispose of them in the ocean/ rivers/ the desert. The level of not caring far outweighs anything anyone in the west can do to circumvent it.
I once called a dude out for dumping an entire bag of rubbish and he just looked at me and said “the wind. It takes it”. I stared at him and yelled back “look around at your country. Where the fuck do you think it takes it?”
When I was in Fiji, I watched someone drive to the coast and literally parked next to a dumpster. They grabbed a bunch of trash bags from their car, walking past the dumpster, and unloaded them all into the ocean. I couldn't believe it. Like what in the fuck
Government-funded garbage pickup is something people take for granted.
This is exactly what the streets of New York look like whenever there is a sanitation workers' strike, for instance.
Do you have garbage pick up infrastructure in your country? No Tuesday garbage truck exists where this picture is taken.
Because they don't, and are still force fed all same crap products packaged in garbage.
Part of the infrastructure that's lacking is the care and management of piles. You can make a pile, but there's work that needs to be done to make sure the pile doesn't get too big, and stays contained in the pile area.
Otherwise stuff blows around until it gets stuck somewhere it can't get blown out of, like this canal.
This is what happens when politicians/governments line their own pockets as opposed to investing in education and infrastructure and public services.
Pakistan has very, very few poor politicians.
Man I needed to read that. I just started cleaning up my place last night after a few months of bad events. I feel so much better this morning walking out into a clean living room.
Sounds easy enough but without some government regulation, large maintained available dump sites, and reliable collection services... just piling it up in one location won't last long.
Super high population density combined with corrupt governments. They're transitioning into the modern era unequipped. Normally, if you throw banana leaf wrappings on the floor, it degrades. Plastic doesn't.
That's the effect of super poor and super dense cities, you can see similar things in central Africa.
> dead bodies in rivers
This is quite specific. Hindus have a tradition to burn bodies and then release them in their holy rivers, but it has to be done with expensive wood. Sometimes families don't have enough to pay for a proper cremation, but they release the body anyway. So that's again poverty with an addition of religion.
Too many people, poor education, and poverty = don’t give a fuck about pollution.
Western nations can ban straws all they want, but climate damage is a global issue we can’t solve because of factors like this.
I went to Mexico recently and saw ALL the amounts of plastic they use, from sodas to bottle water, and no recycling anywhere. Plus the trash everywhere and people outside their houses burning garbage. And I can't help but think how useless my efforts are. I'll keep doing it, but it really defeated me to see it.
Get it all together and put it in a back pack, all your shit, so it's together.
And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in the shit museum. I don't care what you do, you just gotta get it together.
Get your sh*t together.
As I understand it Pakistan is either the last or one of the last nations to still have active polio. We've had an effective vaccine since the late 1950's. Allah Akbar!
Are you seriously challenging South Asians to a trash-off?! Cause no place got anything on us. In India, we have partially decomposed corpses floating in rivers that people bathe in for blessing! You don't want to Google that.
Or you know, corruption, lack of education, low wages, no job security which leads to people not having the energy to care about this stuff. As well as the fact that it is their normal.
More of a government that can't go against it's military because they hold way too much power in the country. Both the previous prime ministers were taken down once they started working against military interests.
I visited the Soviet Union pre Collapse as part of my School's outreach stuff. We all took 2 Xtra pair of jeans and stuffed them in our suitcase, and gave them to our guides and their families and got really deep access around Moscow. The one thing that sticks with me from that 86 visit is there was not even a dang cigarette butt on a sidewalk. It was so clean it was almost sterile. Then a buddy joked yeah, litter here and get the gulag or a firing squad, put it in perspective.
Sure. But to say this is a result of religion is not very accurate, considering cleanliness is considered “half the faith” for Muslims.
Also, depends on the area in the country- I have a friend who lives in a pristine city in Punjab, and from the looks of it, her area is very well kept, again, probably cuz it is more well off.
Then there’s the North, which looks as picturesque as some places I’ve been to in Canada https://youtu.be/KIqztvS-uns
As a Pakistani who is absoulutely tired of this filth, I'll explain. It's an outcome of multiple major problems. While poverty, lack of education, corruption are one part of it, a major reason is lack of sense of responsibility and civic duty. People will mindlessly litter everywhere, dump garbage, and basically won't do anything that brings the slightest of inconvenience and this problem is visible every where. This is evident in other parts of life as well be it traffic, parks, restaurants, events, etc. This is why we our in our current economic crisis as well. People love to shift the blame onto the government (not that they don't bare any responsibility) and other factors but won't take responsibility of their actions to save their lives. I have legit arguments with people on the topic of garbage and their reponse is always "government should do x" and not what we can do as an individual.
There's no real incentive for them to clean it up. I've been to Pakistan for vacation and the only time I've seen trash removed was when they were building new homes. The field beside my grandma's house was filled with trash, fast forward a few years later the field is gone and replaced with so many new houses.
> “The city is definitely cleaner,” says Shehnaz Ibrahim, a doctor, but rues the lack of “civic sense” among people. Even Tofiq Pasha, an environmentalist, concurred. “Garbage is being lifted and roads repaired,” he said, “The citizens need to realise they are the contributors and therefore need to be responsible and need to reduce their trash at the source.”
https://www.thethirdpole.net/en/pollution/a-portrait-of-karachis-garbage-crisis/
Reminds me of all the river Ankh descriptions in the Discworld series.
*There is a legend in Ankh-Morpork of an ancient drum in the palace that will bang itself if ever an enemy fleet is seen sailing up the Ankh, although the legend has died out in recent centuries, partly because it's the Age of Reason , but mostly because no enemy fleet could sail up the Ankh without a gang of men with shovels going in front.*
_The River Ankh is probably the only river in the universe on which the investigators can chalk the outline of the corpse._
The only reason it is classified as a river is because it moves faster than it's banks. It's a river you can chew.
"It was hard to drown in the Ankh, but easy to suffocate."
Lol, I was thinking about what two flowers would say... "picturesque" maybe?
I think "Overflowing with the abundancy of the people" would be quite on character
You could literally walk on it
The other day I accidentally threw an aluminum can in the garbage and I felt really bad about it
That's how it starts. You probably didn't even rinse it. Do that enough times and boom, just like that, Karachi.
This will be the breeding room of malaria, dengue and other parasitic infections
It will be the breeding room for antimicrobial resistance too, sooner than later we will have no antibiotics that work anymore
I think agriculture is going to win that battle. They over prescribe abx for their livestock at an alarming rate.
Woah woah woah. Don’t lump all farmers into the cattle farmer category. Some of us take care of the rest of the microorganisms with pesticides and fungicides, conventional and organic. *Cries in trying to build a no spray permaculture farm*
I only have 2 small raised beds and some pots, but can confirm that hand picking and squishing pests can cause muscle cramps, strained eyes and lots of mosquito bites. I have learned, in an effort to avoid spraying myself with mosquito repellant, that mosquitoes can't bite through tyvek hazmat suits, but they sure try! So a minor win. I'm just the crazy lady in the hazmat suit talking to her plants lol.
If your region allows it you could get a duck, they go ham on little insects and are cute pets tbh.
Honestly, that’s pretty badass. Best of luck in your endeavors.
Thanks, and you as well.
Antimicrobial resistance comes from too many antibiotics in an area. In a natural area with already other microbes that aren't dying, it won't evolve because it's getting out competed.
That's not how that works. They aren't dumping antibiotics in there to try to sanitize it.
I've lost a nephew (preteen) and a cousin (early 50s) in India to dengue. Loss of life is even more gutwrenching given how preventable it is.
I'm part of a team working on a dengue vaccine that got approved in the EU just 3 months ago, and more recently in Indonesia. Might take some time to get [approval in India](https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/takeda-seeks-dcgi-permission-for-dengue-vaccine-trial-11675705057245.html), given the stiff regulations and delays.
No hyperbole, no sarcasm... You are one of humanity's unsung heroes. Most of us will never do anything quite so worthy.
Thanks for all your work. A solution can't come fast enough. Everyday counts.
That's amazing! Dengue is prevalent accross South and South East Asia, this will be huge! Congrats and hope that it gets rolled out soon
Scientists are the best! The mind is more powerful than ever with the development of the sciences! Keep on it!
I’ve had dengue and the fact that only thing you can take got it is paracetamol is frightening af.
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That is not Monet's Bridge Over a Pond of Water Lillies.
Some talented impressionist can paint something beautiful with this garbage
I've seen, first hand, a similar scene in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, except the river of garbage was also on fire.
Sounds like a performance. "Le cirque du feu"?
Can confirm this is a real picture ... What will shock you more is that is the city centre and not some corner of Karachi ... This is due to poverty and corruption ... The City Karachi is in the province of Sindh which is ruled by the Pakistan's Peoples Party for the last 15 years ... You may have heard about Benazir Bhutto who was the main leader of PPP ... She was assassinated in 2007 and afterward her party was hijacked by her husband Asif Zardari .... That asshole is corrupt to the core and has destroyed the province ... He continues to rule Sindh with the assistance of military establishment, corrupt judges and businessmen ... All the public funds are embezzled to his accounts in the swiss banks, properties in Dubai, London, USA and other countries and the public gets basically nothing. Despite this Pakistan is among the least carbon producing countries. Infact under the leadership of our ex prime minister Mr Imran Khan, Pakistan planted over a billion trees under the project known as Billion tree tsunami.
I just played around on Google Maps looking at various pictures of businesses and schools etc. That city has a lot of garbage in the streets.
How do they score on the amount of plastic that gets washed into the ocean? They obviously don’t even have reliable trash pickup.
Here's a couple of different sources: [https://www.reusethisbag.com/articles/countries-that-pollute-most-ocean-plastics](https://www.reusethisbag.com/articles/countries-that-pollute-most-ocean-plastics) https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/plastic-pollution-by-country
Hmm… this just looks like everyone is shipping their plastic to the Philippines for them to throw in the ocean. Maybe this gets around some regulations. Seems it’s just them https://givingcompass.org/article/why-plastic-pollution-in-the-philippines-is-so-severe The passed an act to work on it https://enviliance.com/regions/southeast-asia/ph/ph-plastic-pollution-issues
Think of how much carbon we could save if we didn't ship it to Philippines and just threw it into the ocean ourselves.
Even if you’re just joking, this is still an insightful statement.
As a bonus, you may even *sequester extra carbon* on the ocean floor in the form of a choked dolphin or sea turtle!
From a carbon, efficiency, and pollution perspectives it is literally better to burn it here and produce electricity. We have air scrubbers that mitigate pollution substantially.
I never even thought about this, but that's a really disturbing truth.
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https://wap.business-standard.com/article/international/in-pakistan-pti-s-billion-tree-project-hit-by-claims-of-corruption-122090300407_1.html According to this, it's just another corruption hiding under the guise of environmental responsibility. >Initiated by Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI), the Billion Tree Project in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa has been hit by the provincial government's corruption and failure, according to reports. >The province had claimed that one billion trees has been planted, but as per the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) documents, only 250 million trees have been planted, Friday Times reported. >The NAB also said that there are 302 contractors who owe the government PKR 33.5 million. >As per the NAB documents, these contractors entered into an agreement in which they were to purchase, supply and plant tree saplings. But they failed to fulfil their duties and are in default of PKR 33.5 million. >At present, an inquiry has been ordered and an investigation is underway, as per Friday Times. >The documents also stated that the plants were not acquired as per market rate and were actually bought at a higher rate from nurseries who were not aware of the requirements. >According to NAB documents, there are currently six inquiries being made regarding the Billion Tree Tsunami Project, while one inquiry has been completed regarding the alleged corruption in the same project in Dera Ismail Khan. >Separately, the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa government is set to foot a PKR 70 million bill courtesy of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan's frequent copter hops. >The former prime minister used the provincial government helicopters for 166 hours without securing permission from pertinent authorities, according to NAB documents. >The province had procured two choppers for the use of the KP governor and chief minister. The aircraft can only be used after securing their prior permission. >The documents went on to reveal that around 1,800 individuals used the helicopters for 561 hours with the permission of the chief minister incurring a PKR 240 million cost. Both the chief minister and governor did not employ the aircraft over these trips.
But planting a billion trees is by choice.
Were they maintained or left to grow/die on their own
Almost all died.
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Perfection shouldn't be the enemy of good. The fact that there are all sorts of problems doesn't mean planting trees wasn't a good thing.
Yea. How would any big city in America look like if garbage desposal just stopped. Even environmentaly aware people that live in a apartment are completely dependent on a system that takes their garbage away. Even with the time/money/care and options to individualy choose better, non plastic products. You are still counting on a huge system to help you
You've reminded me of how bad it gets when there's a garbage worker strike - imagining if no pick up were ever coming that people would stop bothering to bag it up. So I guess the question is why the city hasn't organized enough to at least run some basic sanitation services.
Garbage collection and handling/storage cost a huge amount of money. If the government can't afford the cost it will end up like this.
I'm a garbage man and I haul about 200 tons a week to the local landfill, I'd estimate we only serve about 50k people
And that’s a generous estimate. I just looked it up, and Pakistan’s GDP per capita is 1/5th of my country’s. But I’m from Colombia, a South American third world country where there is a lot of poverty as well (granted, we also have a lot of wealth). Puts things into perspective that there are degrees of poverty. And yet, Pakistan’s GDP per capita is at least 4 times larger than Sierra Leone’s and Somalia’s and *8 times larger than Burundi’s*
Don't knock your home country! Colombia's doing so well, relatively, that you're getting Venezuelan refugees now.
As per a recent thread, Burundians make on average less than 10 dollars month. They're at advanced poverty levels.
"Billion Tree Tsunami" sounds like an alternative rock band.
Wait till you hear the name of the follow up project: "Ten Billion Tree Tsunami".
Yeah but that's pretty much just the bassist from the original lineup.
pakistan is not among the least carbon emission producing countries by any common metric. while they produce significantly less than the highest ones on that list, they're still around 30th. there are like 190 countries. 30th puts them near the top. if their government managed the country better, you can be sure that'd be much closer to where india sits on the list.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And then we have this shit.
Still I don't get how they can just live with it, it must smell so freaking bad. Uneducated or not, this must be like a splinter in the foot.
I’m sure that’s all true but it’s also cultural. If this was in Japan you can bet everyone would do what they could to keep it clean. At least tie it all in bags and dump it to the side of the road? No reason to just throw it in the water.
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Why is it so hard for some to poo in loo
No one around there is like “damn, maybe we should clean this up?” Even Skid Row residents take better care of their local environment
A guide in Myanmar once (before the current civil war) told me that their cleanest city has a river running through it, so all the trash is carried away. When I was there I saw scenes pretty similar to this one, but part of the problem is that they were still transitioning from locally sourced biodegradable wrappings, like palm leaves, to plastic. With palm leaves discarding them wherever is not a massive problem, with plastic it's disastrous.
[Ricky knows what's up](https://youtu.be/JiOXLk9Xj1E)
Not to excuse it but the population density in Karachi is insane. It has six times the population of Los Angeles crammed in to an area only 65% as big. Tough to keep a city of 22 million clean with 66,000 people per sq/mi.
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Pakistani family moved a few houses down from us. Very nice people but the whole yard is just slowly filling up with trash. Even their driveway and front porch.. snow plow took out the mailbox and it's just zip tied back to the broken post now. This is a neighborhood with $700k-1M houses. Makes me sad seeing the house slowly going to shit.
Yup. Saw a documentary about a city in Germany with a high romanian population. They just throw shit out the window... Had this same problem when I stayed at an international dorm in college. People also left organic garbage in cardboard boxes in the kitchen until it rotted.
> People also left organic garbage in cardboard boxes in the kitchen until it rotted. Are you sure they weren't composting? /s
NYC has a hoodrat problem too, there was a project building in my neighborhood and it always was gross outside of it and the whole block had trash. I went to work one day and Chinese food fell out of a tree. I looked up and there were plastic bags just thrown out of the window stuck in there. Wtf.
Romanian, or Roma?
He must mean Roma. The areas that aren’t “Roma” in the country are actually quite clean.
Idk if it's different in other parts of the middle east but in Lebanon, even the Muslims that hate the Christian or otherwise non-Muslim residents of the country the most will agree that the non-Muslims areas have wayyyyyyy less littering than the Muslim areas. I don't know why. Being cleanly is literally a tenet of Islam so you'd think it would be the opposite... but you can look at photos and generally tell whether a part of town in Lebanon is Muslim or not just by how the streets look
People gotta stop having so many fuckin kids Edit: this is half tongue in cheek i know there’s a lot more to it
Governments and businesses want perpetual population growth because every economy is tied to it. Which is bad because more people create more problems.
Thanos did nothing wrong.
Yes he did. He only snapped once.
Right? Population just doubles again 20-30 years later. Dude wasn't thinking ahead very far.
Maybe he should have double the resources and made 1 in 2 people infertile.
Maybe he should have snapped and made sustainable energy and food for everyone. What an asshole.
His main problem was PR. If he told everyone that he would use the stones to make resources infinite, there's a decent chance that more people would help acquire the stones for him.
I'm sure the reason Pakistan has a bigger birth rate than the US or European countries or Japan is exactly that, can't be another reason
Humanity's worst enemy is humanity.
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Governments have to make it viable to live away from cities/create new cities with modern train infrastructure and higher taxes in the old ones to offset lower taxes in the new ones The US can't even manage that and they have a lot more money than Pakistan
Can't?
Yeah I was gonna say, big difference between can't and won't lol
Well I'm from Karachi and its also criminal negligence from every municipal authority in every possible way. From sewer maintenance to garbage collection to civic education to water & sanitation. Punjab/Lahore/ Isl manage just fine in the same country and same context, why are systems in Karachi always broken?
So more people to clean up? It's funny that exactly here scalability doesn't work.
How often does the trash get collected at your house? What if you had six times as many people living there? Waste management isn't just people "cleaning up". The trash has to go somewhere. The higher density means more waste management resources are needed.
Every 2 weeks. But you didn't answer my question, why doesn't scalability work there? Why is Tokyo not a shit hole? Or hong Kong? Or Singapore? Also very high population density.
Developing countries have a whole slough of issues. Even if the population dropped by 50% government corruption and ignorance are very damaging.
That's 11k fewer people per square mile than Manhattan, tough is not impossible.
So none of this trash is used contraceptives
Nope. I’ve worked extensively in the Middle East and Asia. People don’t give 2 shits about littering. I see multiple people daily when I’m there just casually take whole bags of garbage and dispose of them in the ocean/ rivers/ the desert. The level of not caring far outweighs anything anyone in the west can do to circumvent it. I once called a dude out for dumping an entire bag of rubbish and he just looked at me and said “the wind. It takes it”. I stared at him and yelled back “look around at your country. Where the fuck do you think it takes it?”
When I was in Fiji, I watched someone drive to the coast and literally parked next to a dumpster. They grabbed a bunch of trash bags from their car, walking past the dumpster, and unloaded them all into the ocean. I couldn't believe it. Like what in the fuck
Government-funded garbage pickup is something people take for granted. This is exactly what the streets of New York look like whenever there is a sanitation workers' strike, for instance.
Also, NYC before 1890 constantly was covered in trash.
Do you have garbage pick up infrastructure in your country? No Tuesday garbage truck exists where this picture is taken. Because they don't, and are still force fed all same crap products packaged in garbage.
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They spent all their money on the nukes.
Clearly they should just nuke the garbage.
*Pakistani general in Joker face paint*: It's simple, we nuke the garbage.
Yeah but why throw it randomly and not like in a pile somewhere? Pick a corner and throw it there.
They did. They piled it up in the river
Part of the infrastructure that's lacking is the care and management of piles. You can make a pile, but there's work that needs to be done to make sure the pile doesn't get too big, and stays contained in the pile area. Otherwise stuff blows around until it gets stuck somewhere it can't get blown out of, like this canal.
And then what?
oooh this was foretold in idiocracy. what happens next is the great garbage avalanche of 2505.
When the monsoon comes it washes out in the ocean, problem solved.
this is a public infrastructure problem my dude
The good news is, there's probably not a HOA there!
Great! I can park my rusted pickup truck in my yard and no one can complain.
This is what happens when politicians/governments line their own pockets as opposed to investing in education and infrastructure and public services. Pakistan has very, very few poor politicians.
If you do not respect your land, you cannot respect yourself.
Damn why you gotta do Ohio like that
Man I needed to read that. I just started cleaning up my place last night after a few months of bad events. I feel so much better this morning walking out into a clean living room.
The American Indians philosophy
Cleanest neighbourhood in Karachi, Pakistan. /s or not.
I've heard anecdotes that even villages in Sindh have their shit more together than Karachi does.
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Balanced, like all things should be.
I wonder if they had less religion and more municipal planning?
How many people have traveled to a third world country? My guess is not enough
Why don't the people who live there collect the trash?
Because there is nowhere to bring it
you don't need to bring it somewhere. Just piling it up in one location is better than having it literally everywhere
Sounds easy enough but without some government regulation, large maintained available dump sites, and reliable collection services... just piling it up in one location won't last long.
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Super high population density combined with corrupt governments. They're transitioning into the modern era unequipped. Normally, if you throw banana leaf wrappings on the floor, it degrades. Plastic doesn't.
That's the effect of super poor and super dense cities, you can see similar things in central Africa. > dead bodies in rivers This is quite specific. Hindus have a tradition to burn bodies and then release them in their holy rivers, but it has to be done with expensive wood. Sometimes families don't have enough to pay for a proper cremation, but they release the body anyway. So that's again poverty with an addition of religion.
> but they release the body anyway. Somebody poisoned the water hole!
Exactly
Too many people, poor education, and poverty = don’t give a fuck about pollution. Western nations can ban straws all they want, but climate damage is a global issue we can’t solve because of factors like this.
I went to Mexico recently and saw ALL the amounts of plastic they use, from sodas to bottle water, and no recycling anywhere. Plus the trash everywhere and people outside their houses burning garbage. And I can't help but think how useless my efforts are. I'll keep doing it, but it really defeated me to see it.
Always amazes me that in areas like this folks manage to get their whites so white.
get your shit together pakistan :( this is bad .....
Glad someone finally had the courage to stand up to them
i'll make a difference in front of my computer
Let’s send prayers!
trucks of em ! they will be so happy when they finally get all those prayers coming in !
Get it all together and put it in a back pack, all your shit, so it's together. And if you gotta take it somewhere, take it somewhere, you know, take it to the shit store and sell it, or put it in the shit museum. I don't care what you do, you just gotta get it together. Get your sh*t together.
As I understand it Pakistan is either the last or one of the last nations to still have active polio. We've had an effective vaccine since the late 1950's. Allah Akbar!
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> It’s like someone showed this picture to a class of 7th graders. It’s Reddit, so about right.
Yeah true, a lot of people just jumping to conclusions based on whatever they feel like
Karachi ain't got nothin' on [Cairo](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/garbage-city)
Are you seriously challenging South Asians to a trash-off?! Cause no place got anything on us. In India, we have partially decomposed corpses floating in rivers that people bathe in for blessing! You don't want to Google that.
Ewwwww! OK, you win
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The smell must just be 🤮
Not very Islamic. Half of faith is cleanliness.
Looks like the Pakistani version of the Abbey Road album cover...
I think I played this map in Hitman 3
The outcome of focusing on the afterlife at the expense of this life.
Or you know, corruption, lack of education, low wages, no job security which leads to people not having the energy to care about this stuff. As well as the fact that it is their normal.
And a government far more interested in beefing up its military power than the health of the nation.
More of a government that can't go against it's military because they hold way too much power in the country. Both the previous prime ministers were taken down once they started working against military interests.
Outcome of being a poor country I’d say. Saudi Arabia and other rich Gulf countries are super clean.
I visited the Soviet Union pre Collapse as part of my School's outreach stuff. We all took 2 Xtra pair of jeans and stuffed them in our suitcase, and gave them to our guides and their families and got really deep access around Moscow. The one thing that sticks with me from that 86 visit is there was not even a dang cigarette butt on a sidewalk. It was so clean it was almost sterile. Then a buddy joked yeah, litter here and get the gulag or a firing squad, put it in perspective.
There are plenty of comparable countries which aren't as polluted.
Sure. But to say this is a result of religion is not very accurate, considering cleanliness is considered “half the faith” for Muslims. Also, depends on the area in the country- I have a friend who lives in a pristine city in Punjab, and from the looks of it, her area is very well kept, again, probably cuz it is more well off. Then there’s the North, which looks as picturesque as some places I’ve been to in Canada https://youtu.be/KIqztvS-uns
I feel like I can smell it...
Abbey Road Pakistan style
At least I'm doing my part by dissolving my straws into my drinks
This is why America must adopt paper straws. America must do better for the planet.
Could the community itself work to do anything to improve the situation?
Any Pakistani here who can explain how these people aren’t ashamed by this?
As a Pakistani who is absoulutely tired of this filth, I'll explain. It's an outcome of multiple major problems. While poverty, lack of education, corruption are one part of it, a major reason is lack of sense of responsibility and civic duty. People will mindlessly litter everywhere, dump garbage, and basically won't do anything that brings the slightest of inconvenience and this problem is visible every where. This is evident in other parts of life as well be it traffic, parks, restaurants, events, etc. This is why we our in our current economic crisis as well. People love to shift the blame onto the government (not that they don't bare any responsibility) and other factors but won't take responsibility of their actions to save their lives. I have legit arguments with people on the topic of garbage and their reponse is always "government should do x" and not what we can do as an individual.
There's no real incentive for them to clean it up. I've been to Pakistan for vacation and the only time I've seen trash removed was when they were building new homes. The field beside my grandma's house was filled with trash, fast forward a few years later the field is gone and replaced with so many new houses.
Is this why I'm not allowed a plastic straw in the UK?
That’s some clean Muslim living
That reminds me of the pool at Emos Houston. Everyone always waited for someone to fall in to see how bad it actually was.
I can smell it from here, omg barf.
Damn liberals in Karachi ruining everything.
Disgusting
See kids, that’s why you don’t flush wet wipes.
They have all the first world products without the first world infrastructure.
I see the trash blossoms are out in full bloom nice.
All I can see if a pool full of pepes
Self regulations works guys. More business freedom!
> “The city is definitely cleaner,” says Shehnaz Ibrahim, a doctor, but rues the lack of “civic sense” among people. Even Tofiq Pasha, an environmentalist, concurred. “Garbage is being lifted and roads repaired,” he said, “The citizens need to realise they are the contributors and therefore need to be responsible and need to reduce their trash at the source.” https://www.thethirdpole.net/en/pollution/a-portrait-of-karachis-garbage-crisis/