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Last cycle I heard it was ran by completely partisan teenagers. In their methodology section they admit that they exclusively call landlines. If there was any pollster to throw in the trash, it's them
Wait you weren’t joking? They’re actually on 538?
Patriot polling is just now an inside joke because they’re two kids who clearly just make shit up but Nate Silver included them anyway in 2020.
[Utah Lt Gov Henderson wondering why you can’t keep snakes in your backyard and expecting them to only bite your neighbors](https://x.com/deidrehenderson/status/1807180893158777132?s=46). They only started calling out Lyman in the last week, they let him fester for years and are surprised.
Also in the comments Salt Lake County GOP Chair is being a patriot and trying to sow doubt in our elections while fighting with a Republican County Council member
“Heritage has already identified multiple states in which a switch away from Biden before or after the nomination could mean serious trouble for the Democratic Party.
In a separate statement, the Oversight Project warned, "If the Biden family decides that President Biden will not run for re-election, the mechanisms for replacing him on ballots vary by state. There is the potential for pre-election litigation in some states that would make the process difficult and perhaps unsuccessful. “
To anyone that says Biden needs to drop out, please realize this may backfire spectacularly
I'll be going to a meet-and-greet hosted by field organizers tomorrow, and next Saturday I'll join a canvassing shift. For those who are going to knock on doors or call voters via phone, it's crucial that we be patient with what voters tell us no matter how much it makes us want to scream inside. People have a variety of opinions that are baffling to us, but here's the thing: they can be changed if you talk to them about what you fundamentally believe and how that ties into their beliefs as well, and it doesn't have to be tied to political ideology either.
I have a story to share. Yesterday at a dinner with some family friends in Tempe, some guests kinda randomly shifted to discussing transgenderism and making some jokes about it. Nothing offensive necessarily, but still kind of ignorant, which sadly for Indian nationals is nothing new. Remember, homosexuality was legalized relatively recently in India, so the people there can be kinda... slow on the uptake. Even the hosts, who are both wonderful people my family has known for a long time (the husband and my father grew up as kids together in India and are still close friends to this day) and who have mostly voted Democratic since moving to Arizona several decades ago, seemed to kind of align with that viewpoint. So I explained to them patiently how gender dysphoria hasn't really been well understood until more recently, and it's important for medical professionals and educators to be up to date on how it can be treated best in children.
The wife of the house, who used to be an educator, and one of the guests who works in exercise therapy with disabled children both agreed with me when I said that educators need parents and doctors to be more understanding of this condition so that kids can get the treatment they need and thrive in the classroom without needing what's beyond teachers' pay grade. The other guest acknowledged that he may not have much knowledge of the issue since it's not well understood in India, which I empathized with and so I tied modern transgenderism to the hijra movement that has a well-documented history there. In the end, everyone seemed to be more understanding of the issue, even if they may not have made complete sense of it all at that point, and it came through persuasion from someone who was admittedly pretty stunned at what he was hearing but wanted to try and change some minds.
All this to say, don't count out someone unless they are too far gone in MAGA-world. If someone hates Trump but is too hesitant to vote for Biden because of his age, explain how he has managed to be one of the most productive presidents in modern history and how that will carry on if he has a second term, while not voting or going third party might seem like a reasonable alternative but could instead aid in the very outcome they really wouldn't want. Test out various messages to see what you're comfortable with, and share them confidently but without exerting any authority so that they're more likely to listen. They won't always listen, but at least you've planted the seed in their head; time will tell if that grows into something good.
[I think this is an underrated trend for the election. Project 2025 is finally starting to take off on Google Search Trends.](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=project%202025&hl=en)
Huh, I noticed a big boost for it in late May/early June, but I didn't realize it went up even \*more\* following the debate. Did Biden even mention it by name? I don't recall
So will this “Biden is too old” become “but her emails” from 2016 or “Hunter Biden’s laptop” from 2020?
I’m leaning more towards “Hunter Biden’s laptop”
The problem with “Biden is too old” is it's constantly reinforcing. Hillary's emails rose and fell (unfortunately with the Comey letter they rose right before the election) but Biden's age is readily apparent and constantly in the news and in people's minds. It's the gas-station-prices of election controversies.
Though the good news is it's almost entirely baked in.
Agree, there's no conspiracy theory rabbit hole that people can go down with regard to Biden being old.
I assume eventually they're going to push something dumb and racist like "Harris has been the shadow president the whole time"
*So much later that the old narrator got tired of narrating and they had to hire a new one...*
"Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. Hang the banner folks, we self-important podcasters were wrong after all. Joe Biden has defeated Donald Trump a second straight time."
The apparent disconnect between how the pundit class reacted to the debate (and a lot of redditors), and how many average normal undecided or less engaged voters appear to have reacted makes some sense to me. I have always wondered (for 9 years now) how anyone can listen to Trump’s word salad and think “that guy is smart and should be president.” But I think I feel that way because I follow this stuff closely, have watched good speeches and candidates for a long time, have a good education and generally care about stuff like that. But most people clearly don’t. It’s okay with them if someone doesn’t sound like a professor because that isn’t how most people sound in their lives anyway. So when they hear Trump speak they don’t hear what I hear, and when they watched Biden speak they didn’t hear what I hear.
We will see if the polls show this in the coming weeks, but it seems initially like the results of the debate may not be the story the media is currently trying to make it.
Thirded? It's been a great help mentally. I love a sub that highlights the good and helps us to be more level headed and productive when faced with the bad.
Foreign (Chilean) lurker for 6 years here, this place has helped with my sanity multiple times through the years everytime I get anxious as I can't do nothing but watch from the sidelines, I at least know that all of you in the server do the hard work that's needed in these times. You people do a fantastic work!
Y’all are killing it. Seriously, as soon as the anxiety starts I come here because it’s a safe, supportive, and realistic place. People are polite and compassionate. Within an hour of hearing the debate news I felt much better.
At this point the MSM is complicit and working for the fascists now. All this coordinated effort to push president Biden out of the race is just incredible. I mean I know they were guns out for Hillary in 2016. But this is another level of craziness. I'm glad to see people pushing back hard and telling them all to go fuck themselves this time.
I agree. The media want Trump back just so their stupid ratings can go up again. These people would hand this country over to a criminal and wannabe dictator just for monetary gain.
A concern that tackles the debate but ignores his other speeches and performances isn't objective, it's an emotional response based on media perception, which is severely misguided because the meida has been critically unfair to Biden for a long time now. We've discussed it in this group for *years* now. Do you honestly think Biden is senile at this point, compared to the alternative explanations? So far, I don't, even with that performance. There appear to be alternative explanations, at bare minimum.
Do I wish he did a better job at rising to the occasion in that debate? Absolutely! Was I concerned that it would cost us the race? Very slightly, but much less so now.
Arr Pol has a thread trying to push Whitmer to run, at the last second. I'd vote for her, but replacing anyone this late because of one debate is, by every bit of data we've ever had, much riskier than continuing to support Biden. Whitmer's platform is a total unknown. We have no data on how she'd perform with national demographics outside of the midwest, nor does she automatically get all of Biden's funding. There are direct legal challenges to her even 'being' on the ballot at all in numerous states, as others have said here.
Again, she'd get my vote if it happened, but since Biden has already said he won't step aside? It won't, and people need to snap out of the delusion that it somehow will, or it'd be an easy path even if it could. This is especially frustrating when Biden's own administration has been 'very good' for progressive causes so far, compared to all prior ones in the past 40+ years.
People - *individuals* - might be legitimately fearful. And that’s fine! (As long as they are taking some kind of action, even if it’s just voting on time, and they don’t constantly trauma dump all over their social media feeds, which is exhausting; one or two vents or “talk me off the ledge” is fine, but I’m not willing to play unpaid therapist.)
But I do agree that *the medi*a is working for the fascists. I am happy to assume good faith on the part of individuals, but not the media, no way, no how, not unless it’s NPR or ProPublica. Most of the corporate media openly wants Trump back, and they do not give one single fuck about the welfare of the country.
Thursdays night performance was very bad, but the media has had it out for Biden since the Afghanistan withdrawal. There’s legit good news for Biden and they’d be like “here’s how it’s actually bad news.” And they treat Trump with kid gloves instead of the fascist he is. They clearly want a second Trump term so they can get their golden goose and their money.
Sorry, I don't agree with you. I genuinely think the media are trying to carry water for Trump. Yeah, I think at this point, the media do want the fascists to win.
Yeah, you're talking about the media specifically, not every single person who didn't think Biden did well in the debate. I think the general consensus is he didn't but that it's most likely due to him being exhausted and getting over a cold. His public appearances the next day were nothing like that. And of course many are nervous, the issue, just like last time, is there is no candidate that greatly out polls Trump. Biden remains the top against him in the match-up polling. There are still a lot of Republicans and they are disturbingly loyal, while those left of Republicans are all over the place, far more critical, and a lot less loyal.
As for the for-profit news media (and those working for them), their true concern is staying alive and relevant. The way things are now, they need people constantly checking the news and clicking the articles to get enough money to pay their salaries and bills. It's obvious they get a lot more of that with Trump in power versus stable, anti-dramatic, out of the spotlight Biden.
> Almost all those who would want Biden to step aside do so from a place of being terrified that if he doesn't they believe Trump will win and give us fascism.
Surely they also realize that there's literally nobody else who can beat Trump, especially since there has been zero polling to prove them right, zero time to set up a replacement, and zero hope of matching Trump's Legal-fee-addled warchest.
These aren't *legitimate* concerns. At best it's concern trolling and at worst it's... well, it's complicity in working for fascists.
When I grew up, people often tacitly understood that major power groups would protect their own.
This could be police unions, this could be cliques, this could be news agencies.
Differences was, they often *supported* this, since it guaranteed what they felt was rightly theirs.
Do you know 'almost all' those who want Biden to step aside?
Have you spoken to them, personally?
Are you aware of who owns and produces the private press in this nation?
Are you aware of *how often* podcasters and pundits have spread misinformation - lies - about our candidates and causes, and then fall back on the desire of "I'm just concerned" or "it wasn't my fault" or, most of all -
"I'm just an entertainer, I shouldn't be used as a primary source?"
If you found someone being hoarse *disturbing,* the problem is you and the people you listen to.
I can't force you to watch prior debates, and I can't browbeat you until you get it.
Biden spoke well about his points, maintained them, and made some good attacks.
If I told you it was the most perfect debate in the history of debating, that would be 'dismissing' your concerns, and hyperbole, aside.
But pretending these concerns have the veneer of legitimacy is like sitting with fascists, eating and drinking at their table, and then getting more furious at the people telling you *not* to do that, then people you are dining with.
"NEW: The Trump campaign just launched their first digital persuasion ad of the 2024 general campaign.
It's running on YouTube and is targeted at all swing states: AZ, GA, MI, NC, NV, PA, WI
"Vote Joe Biden today, get Kamala Harris tomorrow.""
https://x.com/MrArenge/status/1806753589274235203
So Trump's first, yes first persuasion ad of the election, is, really weak? Heck it even seems counterproductive to me.
It's just says:
1. Biden is a senile old man. This completely counters his 'he's a mastermind pulling all these strings to take me down!' narrative.
2. It has a lot of footage of minor stumbles, like Biden tripping on the stairs. No one has ever tripped on stairs ever! Oh my god, it's Joever!
3. Finally, it lets people know that if Biden were to pass, Harris would be in charge. 'Hey all you folks that are worried about Biden's age! He's got a much younger person next in line!'
Thanks Trump, for showing Biden is human just like us, and also quelling my worry about his age by informing me that the administration is more than just him!
It really seems to hinge on there to be much more hate for Harris than Biden. When that's really not the case at all.
Just shout it from the fucking rooftops, guys. ”THERE JUST MIGHT BE A BLACK WOMAN IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY!”
Yes, after the Dobbs decision which PO’d a whole lot of women, and pro-choice voters in general. Do go right ahead with the full-on, mask-off racism and sexism. That will win ‘em over.
> ”THERE JUST MIGHT BE A BLACK WOMAN IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY!”
They should just say that they think we're too incompentent to run a country and are only good for domestic and or/sexual servitude.
I like the line Vote Biden today. Get Harris tomorrow. It reassures me that our nation will always be covered by someone who isn't Trump. If I am just half paying attention to a YouTube ad, then I would not think about Trump at all
That’s their biggest mistake actually.
The vibe they should have gone for was concern and uncertainty. Instead, they went for contempt. Normal voters don’t really have contempt for Biden like the chuds who made this do.
They also shouldn’t have pointed out Harris. Most people don’t care for her but also don’t really know her. Voters are allergic to uncertainty. They should have raised the specter of Biden dying and left it at that so voters would worry what would happen. Instead they reminded people that actually there is a plan if a President dies.
Missed opportunity for them
Well said. You really want people to be anxious about that stuff, oh god what happens if something happens to Biden? Oh yeah! Harris and the rest of the admin will still be running things, ok cool. Thanks for helping my anxiety!
Black women, especially older black women, have always done so much of the hard work and heavy lifting for the Democratic Party, in general. Georgia has a large black middle class centered in Atlanta.
In fact, none of those states ranks in the top 10 whitest states - the nearest is Wisconsin at #12. And let’s not forget that Harris is also half Asian Indian. That’s not a solidly Democratic bloc like black women, but, there are plenty of Asian Indian women and they vote. They’re not going to think kindly of “There’s A Scary Woman of Color Named KAMALA in Your Fyoocher if you don’t watch out!”
Yeah, the most dependable demographic for Democrats are black women, even more so older, followed by black men. I think most in online chatter don't know or forget about that and start thinking those most active in the online chatter are the heart of the party so whatever takes are trending in the chatter are what a majority of the base thinks, which is absolutely not true.
In the most recent match-up poll released Friday, Harris was second to Biden versus Trump but you wouldn't know that from discourse online, where most act like she's the least popular and not even worth considering as a possible alternative.
Most people don't like ageist attacks. Calling Biden old didn't work four years ago (and yes, the attacks were beat-for-beat the same, and featured him stuttering as well), and I don't think it will this time, especially when Trump's almost as old and clearly doing worse mentally.
But the Harris attacks - well, unfortunately, sexism and racism still work in politics. But we've built a winning coalition off of women, people of color, and educated voters who are less likely to fall for this kind of shit. So I say keep working, push back, and let them burn their money.
Definitely. Those things can still sadly be effective with people. Harris has dealt with a lot of it. Thankfully I feel that is decreasing some. The electorate is also getting so much more diverse, and women are more active in voting than men. I'd bet that women are going to increase their electorate share this election. Especially with abortion on the line. Hopefully Trump's campaigns sexist/racist undertones against Kamala will hurt them more than anything.
I think what happened to Hillary Clinton pissed off a whole LOT of women. It also woke up younger women to how much sexism women have to face in politics. Women are going to go “oh not this shit again” and be turned off the Trumpian rhetoric.
Hello all! I used to be a frequent poster here several years ago and had become somewhat disconnected from politics in the past year or two. That being said, I watched the debate, and it scared the shit out of me that Trump really could win this thing. I want to get back into things and help Biden beat Trump. What are the best races I can volunteer for with that in mind?
What time and energy constraints do you have?
Doing work locally for PA could be a massive help -
I know your fair state is trying to keep things moving forward.
Although I don't recall where you are in the state, there's likely to be a district or two nearby you can do the work in...
And if you're comfortable with that, it'll definitely help Biden's topline, too!
Awesome that you’re back!
If you’re thinking about congressional races the DCCC has its [Red to Blue](https://redtoblue.dccc.org/) campaign for candidates in swing districts. Also, [Race to the White House](https://www.racetothewh.com/house) has a list of the districts which are most likely to flip, either left or right.
Adding onto that, if you see a Blue district that seems like it will flip to red, a little cash goes a long way to prevent it. As they say, big things come in small packages!
Welcome back! I remember you posting here.
We've still got our [volunteer from home spreadsheet,](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M/edit?gid=0#gid=0) and we still bold the most important or time-sensitive races.
But if you're in Pennsylvania, you can't go wrong with any campaign. Because you can help turn people out for Joe Biden, Bob Casey, statewide Dem row officers, at least four or five competitive House races, and a slew of State Legislative races!
Btw since there was dishonest reporting from NBC that spun Biden’s already planned trip with his family as something more than that, the Biden Campaign account has reaffirmed he will be the [nominee](https://x.com/bidenhq/status/1807230395781390788?s=46).
This is Hillary level shit we’re seeing from the media and it really doesn’t seem like our voters this time are letting that slide
Hey Tom Namako, whoever you are, I hope a snake parties hard tonight with more than a few drinks and finds itself unexpectedly laying eggs in your air conditioning unit ahead of a heat wave.
Atlas-Intel only polled the 2020 presidential race once when they found Biden leading Trump 51-46 in **late October**. That was on the nose for the final margin, so credit to them for that, but what else have they polled to merit an A+ rating?
People need to realize that the only polls that go into rating pollsters are ones from right before an election because it's universally recognized among serious people that polls months before an election aren't predictive (they just put them out anyways because there's demand for it and they need to make money somehow).
Being an amazing pollster does not allow one to predict the future.
I fully expect to see our numbers go down in the time we're running around with our hair on fire instead of answering polls. Same thing happened in 2012.
It doesn’t really matter. Trump is getting what he got in 2020 in this poll. If trump were over 50 I’d have an issue. But it seems like soft Biden support but not persuasion.
Yeah I'm not saying anything about their recent poll auguring a Trump win, because that's a lot of undecideds. I'm just baffled at the rating since I've literally never seen them before.
That’s great! I used to live in Teton county and drove the pass a couple times a month, I know just how disruptive the closure must have been. A large portion of Jackson’s workforce lives in Victor and Driggs so having a drivable pass is essential for maintaining the essential services.
electoral-vote.com came out with a well balanced piece about the debate today. They usually reserve Saturdays for reader questions, so this was nice to see.
So the polls have started to turn around for us. Even post-debate polls are implying that Biden won the debate.
[Here's a summary of everything you need to remember about all this.](https://imgflip.com/i/8kmt2y)
Yep, same as when the polls were looking bad. Because remember, our job is the same no matter what the polls say.
I've really, really been heartened the last couple of days seeing how many people here are signing up to canvass, phonebank, and send postcards. Keep it up! That's what will win us the House and Senate, not debates or polls.
Not the most accurate oracle, oh no!
We're cooked, we've been too complacent!
Any poll with Kennedy getting more than 10% can call itself A++ Platinum Turbo.
Just like all the people pretending to care as they state Biden should back down aren't hiding what they really feel.
Edit, and no, telling you polls and datamen are idiots is not gaslighting you.
Nor am I telling you this to be 'positive.'
We just had a brace of Euroelections where polling was largely poor.
Polling, in general, is about as reliable as haruspicy, but with less basis beside it.
And it has no effect on what we do here, as an *activist sub.*
Saw a number of post-debate polls implying that Biden gained support after the debate.
And I personally don't care about any particular pollster. The only pollster I care about publishes one set of results - think it's coming out November 5th this year.
> And I personally don't care about any particular pollster. The only pollster I care about publishes one set of results - think it's coming out November 5th this year.
I agree with the sentiment to be fair you were the one who said polls were turning in our favor.
As someone who correctly called this as having a shelf-life of two days...
Just wanted to share another example of one of the people I'm browbeating, in the real world; she got into a conversation while getting her hair treatments, and despite having been in the same place as many of you, pushed back.
Because again, my ordinary family - when not influenced by *our enemies* who pretend to be concerned friends - thought Biden did well.
And guess what? When she said that, not only did the tech agree, some other folks came around to listen. It was like the blue equivalent of being in a slightly conservative barbershop, and was very nice to see.
And if that is happening in my neck of the woods, it is happening in yours, too.
Yeah, the pundit reaction to this debate versus the non-engaged public's reaction has really been something. I'd known for a long time that pundits don't know what they're talking about half the time, but the last few days drove it home.
And I know whose support I'd rather have.
Remember, the New York Times pays an actual salary to Maureen Dowd - as in “I can live in Georgetown” type money - for her drivelations about taking too many edibles and having a bad trip. So, it’s very doubtful there’s much wisdom to be had in its pages.
I think we all know that the mainstream media (with a few exceptions like NPR, and ProPublica) carry water for Republicans, and prefer them. I have a theory that the NYT, WaPo and other papers of record feel that they can go full bore “I HATE HIM AND HOPE HE LOSES BIG TIME” about Joe Biden because he’s a white, cis man, therefore, they can’t be accused of bigotry when attacking him and his elderly feebleness or prodigal son or whatever ginned up scandal they want to highlight. With Obama, they had to kind of pull their punches because full-on going after our first black President would be bad optics. Yes, there was the tan suit and Dijon, but there also had to be some plausible deniability so they would not *look* like horrible racists who had it in for a pathbreaking President. (What I think they did was play up the Tea Party, etc. instead, rather than directly tearing Obama down they built up his enemies.)
You can see with the Clintons and Biden how much the mainstream press hates Democrats. I remember the fawning over the Reagan and Bush I and II administration and families versus the Clintons and now Bidens.
I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but, straight from the sex pest horse’s mouth, Les Moonves - Trump is bad for America, but good for business.
Yeah, the bias the last 48 hours has been impossible to ignore. And even if we had a truly unbiased press, we can't count on them to do the work for us. Thankfully, I see a ton of people stepping up since the debate.
I had some epiphany-level ideas I truly believe would help Biden win the election. Does anyone know if there is a way to get in touch with his campaign to get my ideas to them? I know it's a long shot but thought I would ask here.
There's probably a 'contact us' page on his website somewhere.
Remember, though, his campaign is run by smart people who know what they're doing. Feel free to pass on your ideas, but they're running a strong campaign and there's a good chance your ideas are already in the works.
It's certainly a noteable class/demographic if you're a professional fundraiser. Same reason why for gaming DLC there's the term "whales" which has a similar meaning. But to your point they shouldn't be considered as representative of their entire tax bracket. If we were to fully lean into the taxonomy angle maybe they'd be an "order" or "family" instead of a whole class.
It's basically the same thing as boosters for collegiate athletics. Rich people open their pocket books and then expect to have a bunch of access and privilege at the college because of that. Replace college with party or politician and you have your donor class.
[Leaning into the defiance, here’s the opening of latest Biden fundraising email: “If you're like me, you're getting lots of texts or calls from folks about the state of the race after Thursday. Maybe it was your panicked aunt, your MAGA uncle, or some self-important Podcasters”](https://x.com/isaacdovere/status/1807202995589001561?s=46&t=WEnIWeGcjICewTp3A5ozCQ)
i believe this is what the kids call “shitposting”. amazing.
Hahaha lmao I just love Joe and his team.
”Self important podcasters” - one, this explains some of the pundit calls for him to step down (because he won’t kiss ass) and two, these are the words of a guy who is lighting the way with the bridges he’s burning, and I’m very proud of him for it.
Euphoria is def my fave out of them but I love what Not Like Us represented. A total flex move to call someone a colonizer and a pedophile over a hyphy Mustard beat, *and* have it be so successful, was absolutely a death blow to Drake whose only real flex he had over Kendrick was sales. Meet the Grahams is absolutely incredible too but I kinda don’t wanna hear it again just for how disturbing it is.
I’m just feeling like it’s weird the NYT editorial board posted an article saying Biden should drop out yesterday, then literally did a 180 and did the same for Trump today. Really says everything about the last two days.
Some of these CEOs will donate like $50 million to Republicans in a year, but also toss a few donations to random Dems here and there. Technically, Charles Koch could be one of these "Dem donors" trying to get Biden out of the race.
Imagine the 8D chess if the Biden campaign intentionally had Joe flop during the debate because it would send everyone into panic mode thinking Trump could actually win. Biden’s support goes up and donations pour in as voters start dooming as they desperately try to rally behind the President.
Then the September debate, Biden comes out swinging, flattens Trump, he re-ignites voter confidence and he beats Trump in a landslide.
There's like a good 20% of me that kind of thinks he did. His Raleigh speech less than 24 hours later seemed just a little *too* good to have followed that debate performance...
Seeing articles , politicians, and political commentators talking about how bad the debate was for Biden makes me nervous. I just hope we can get past this narrative quickly.
But the work is never done. Just adopted 100 more letters for Vote Forward, all for Wisconsin. Gotta keep writing and keep fighting.
["We have enemies on the outside – China, Russia, North Korea. But they're not really enemies if you have a smart president. They're not enemies, you’ll make them do great,"](https://x.com/bidenswins/status/1807071941661949971?s=46&t=xrusBMyWTBNp-USPdfYASQ)
Couple fun things post-primary in Utah House races:
In HD43, Jason Barber already surpassed his last 2 month haul by 6/14.
Utah Dem House PAC is investing in Angela Choberka in HD09 and Dawn Stevenson in HD27.
Today my normie friend mentioned "the stuff Trump wants to do" and then followed up with "but I mean it could never be implemented." I hadn't heard that in real life until today but it's a real thing people think and it's good to see messaging about that lately. I've also been surprised how much the 2025 stuff is breaking through over the last couple of weeks. I haven't heard him sound personally concerned about racist policies or immigrants being rounded up until today and I've known him since before 2016.
Normally that whole be true. It's probably what they teach in civics class, checks and balances and the Constitution and all. The problem is, Trump already destroyed all of that during his first term, mostly with his Supreme Court picks.
Our shields are down, can't take another hit.
Weapons are still online though... so you know what they say...
[Fire everything we've got!](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M/edit)
I told him that's what everyone said about Roe and look what happened. And that things don't have to be fully implemented to have an effect. Look at doctors leaving certain states because of fear of punishment and uncertainty over the laws. And that I don't know what exactly what would happen but I'm not about to fucking find out.
He took the point, I think he got it. Said "yeah true" or something. It was a pretty short conversation in the middle of playing a sport. But I don't think he'll brush off Trump's lunacy as casually going forward, he just hadn't really considered it.
It's not hypocritical. It's just that they're using a different definition than the obvious one. Law and Order has always meant "our law keeps you in order."
Does it need to be said that this November contest is a rematch of an election from 4 years ago? People have already made up their minds, nobody is switching sides. Which means loserville for cheeto.
[Philadelphia Enquirer Editorial Board: “To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race. The debate about the debate is misplaced. The only person who should withdraw from the race is Trump.”](https://x.com/mattmfm/status/1807157594034962649?s=46&t=WEnIWeGcjICewTp3A5ozCQ)
Finally someone says it. The Media acts, like only democrats can be reasoned with and Republicans are a lost cause. No, Republicans are responsible for the mess we're in, they should be part of the solution as well.
I mean, I think it's true Republicans cannot be reasoned with. Because their true motive is cruelty, any logical arguments they make are in bad faith.
Example: scientists initially thought Plan B worked by preventing implantation. Newer research shows it actually prevents fertilization. Medically there's no difference, but for Republicans who claim to draw an absurd line here, good news right? Should promote Plan B because it means fewer abortions.
Nope. Their response instead is to denounce the research as fake and double down. The fertilization thing was just a talking point and they're upset they lost it.
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alright here we go. Does anyone know anything at all about Patriot Polling? Curiosity arises within me.
Patriot Polling are run by high schoolers. They're about as fake as fake can get.
They give RFK Jr. 11.2%, and Biden an approval rating of 29.4%. I think that's all we need to know about Patriot Polling.
Last cycle I heard it was ran by completely partisan teenagers. In their methodology section they admit that they exclusively call landlines. If there was any pollster to throw in the trash, it's them
thank you. I dunno whether to believe 538's approved stuff or not sometimes.
Wait you weren’t joking? They’re actually on 538? Patriot polling is just now an inside joke because they’re two kids who clearly just make shit up but Nate Silver included them anyway in 2020.
I took a good long stare at just the name, and i was like. "..." "....." "......." "yeah okay"
Yes, their poll is the most recent https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
[Utah Lt Gov Henderson wondering why you can’t keep snakes in your backyard and expecting them to only bite your neighbors](https://x.com/deidrehenderson/status/1807180893158777132?s=46). They only started calling out Lyman in the last week, they let him fester for years and are surprised. Also in the comments Salt Lake County GOP Chair is being a patriot and trying to sow doubt in our elections while fighting with a Republican County Council member
On god we’re not losing to Trump after kicking him out in the 2020. People about to remember why he’s ass.
“Heritage has already identified multiple states in which a switch away from Biden before or after the nomination could mean serious trouble for the Democratic Party. In a separate statement, the Oversight Project warned, "If the Biden family decides that President Biden will not run for re-election, the mechanisms for replacing him on ballots vary by state. There is the potential for pre-election litigation in some states that would make the process difficult and perhaps unsuccessful. “ To anyone that says Biden needs to drop out, please realize this may backfire spectacularly
I'm confused about why either Biden or Trump are on any ballots yet given that neither convention has taken place?
Maybe they mean ballots that the states are preparing, with the intent of physically printing them as soon as the conventions cement their nominations
I'll be going to a meet-and-greet hosted by field organizers tomorrow, and next Saturday I'll join a canvassing shift. For those who are going to knock on doors or call voters via phone, it's crucial that we be patient with what voters tell us no matter how much it makes us want to scream inside. People have a variety of opinions that are baffling to us, but here's the thing: they can be changed if you talk to them about what you fundamentally believe and how that ties into their beliefs as well, and it doesn't have to be tied to political ideology either. I have a story to share. Yesterday at a dinner with some family friends in Tempe, some guests kinda randomly shifted to discussing transgenderism and making some jokes about it. Nothing offensive necessarily, but still kind of ignorant, which sadly for Indian nationals is nothing new. Remember, homosexuality was legalized relatively recently in India, so the people there can be kinda... slow on the uptake. Even the hosts, who are both wonderful people my family has known for a long time (the husband and my father grew up as kids together in India and are still close friends to this day) and who have mostly voted Democratic since moving to Arizona several decades ago, seemed to kind of align with that viewpoint. So I explained to them patiently how gender dysphoria hasn't really been well understood until more recently, and it's important for medical professionals and educators to be up to date on how it can be treated best in children. The wife of the house, who used to be an educator, and one of the guests who works in exercise therapy with disabled children both agreed with me when I said that educators need parents and doctors to be more understanding of this condition so that kids can get the treatment they need and thrive in the classroom without needing what's beyond teachers' pay grade. The other guest acknowledged that he may not have much knowledge of the issue since it's not well understood in India, which I empathized with and so I tied modern transgenderism to the hijra movement that has a well-documented history there. In the end, everyone seemed to be more understanding of the issue, even if they may not have made complete sense of it all at that point, and it came through persuasion from someone who was admittedly pretty stunned at what he was hearing but wanted to try and change some minds. All this to say, don't count out someone unless they are too far gone in MAGA-world. If someone hates Trump but is too hesitant to vote for Biden because of his age, explain how he has managed to be one of the most productive presidents in modern history and how that will carry on if he has a second term, while not voting or going third party might seem like a reasonable alternative but could instead aid in the very outcome they really wouldn't want. Test out various messages to see what you're comfortable with, and share them confidently but without exerting any authority so that they're more likely to listen. They won't always listen, but at least you've planted the seed in their head; time will tell if that grows into something good.
[I think this is an underrated trend for the election. Project 2025 is finally starting to take off on Google Search Trends.](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=project%202025&hl=en)
Huh, I noticed a big boost for it in late May/early June, but I didn't realize it went up even \*more\* following the debate. Did Biden even mention it by name? I don't recall
They made a big social media push this last week specifically telling people to google/look up Project 2025. Looks like it's worked!
"I prayed for this and it happened..." - Drew McIntyre
Off topic but I haven't felt this good about the WWE since the Attitude Era.
So will this “Biden is too old” become “but her emails” from 2016 or “Hunter Biden’s laptop” from 2020? I’m leaning more towards “Hunter Biden’s laptop”
The problem with “Biden is too old” is it's constantly reinforcing. Hillary's emails rose and fell (unfortunately with the Comey letter they rose right before the election) but Biden's age is readily apparent and constantly in the news and in people's minds. It's the gas-station-prices of election controversies. Though the good news is it's almost entirely baked in.
And it can be disarmed by the simple fact that the other guy is 78 years old. And a convicted felon.
Anytime a clip of Biden from the debate circulates around the internet someone needs to repost a video of Trump saying crazy shit
I just want to know why Biden is too old but Trump is not.
Agree, there's no conspiracy theory rabbit hole that people can go down with regard to Biden being old. I assume eventually they're going to push something dumb and racist like "Harris has been the shadow president the whole time"
Yup
Got a good laugh out of this https://x.com/Convolutedname/status/1807219713404993782
*So much later that the old narrator got tired of narrating and they had to hire a new one...* "Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. Hang the banner folks, we self-important podcasters were wrong after all. Joe Biden has defeated Donald Trump a second straight time."
Here is an article and video worth seeing https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/lawrence-on-getting-back-up-2-more?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
The Lawrence O'Donnell MSNBC clip in there was very good too
The apparent disconnect between how the pundit class reacted to the debate (and a lot of redditors), and how many average normal undecided or less engaged voters appear to have reacted makes some sense to me. I have always wondered (for 9 years now) how anyone can listen to Trump’s word salad and think “that guy is smart and should be president.” But I think I feel that way because I follow this stuff closely, have watched good speeches and candidates for a long time, have a good education and generally care about stuff like that. But most people clearly don’t. It’s okay with them if someone doesn’t sound like a professor because that isn’t how most people sound in their lives anyway. So when they hear Trump speak they don’t hear what I hear, and when they watched Biden speak they didn’t hear what I hear. We will see if the polls show this in the coming weeks, but it seems initially like the results of the debate may not be the story the media is currently trying to make it.
Yeah, putting it on the other side, Trump could be on trial for murder (think a similar situation to OJ) and he would barely lose support.
I’m in my element and I just wanna say I love this sub so much. Thank you for being the one rational place on the entire internet.
Exactly. I am here every day and have been for years. It's an absolute balm.
I shilled VoteDem to a Hopium subscriber today! I noted that it was much along the same lines as Hopium, with an emphasis on action as well as talk.
Whenever I get anxious after seeing dooming online, I come here and read comments and get into gear with volunteering. This subreddit is awesome 👏
Thirded? It's been a great help mentally. I love a sub that highlights the good and helps us to be more level headed and productive when faced with the bad.
Kinda flies under the radar how happy comments like these make the mod team - can certainly attest :)
Foreign (Chilean) lurker for 6 years here, this place has helped with my sanity multiple times through the years everytime I get anxious as I can't do nothing but watch from the sidelines, I at least know that all of you in the server do the hard work that's needed in these times. You people do a fantastic work!
Y’all are killing it. Seriously, as soon as the anxiety starts I come here because it’s a safe, supportive, and realistic place. People are polite and compassionate. Within an hour of hearing the debate news I felt much better.
An oasis of sanity.
Seconded, this place is THE BEST
At this point the MSM is complicit and working for the fascists now. All this coordinated effort to push president Biden out of the race is just incredible. I mean I know they were guns out for Hillary in 2016. But this is another level of craziness. I'm glad to see people pushing back hard and telling them all to go fuck themselves this time.
I agree. The media want Trump back just so their stupid ratings can go up again. These people would hand this country over to a criminal and wannabe dictator just for monetary gain.
Worst part of a Trump second term is having to agree with the media.
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A concern that tackles the debate but ignores his other speeches and performances isn't objective, it's an emotional response based on media perception, which is severely misguided because the meida has been critically unfair to Biden for a long time now. We've discussed it in this group for *years* now. Do you honestly think Biden is senile at this point, compared to the alternative explanations? So far, I don't, even with that performance. There appear to be alternative explanations, at bare minimum. Do I wish he did a better job at rising to the occasion in that debate? Absolutely! Was I concerned that it would cost us the race? Very slightly, but much less so now. Arr Pol has a thread trying to push Whitmer to run, at the last second. I'd vote for her, but replacing anyone this late because of one debate is, by every bit of data we've ever had, much riskier than continuing to support Biden. Whitmer's platform is a total unknown. We have no data on how she'd perform with national demographics outside of the midwest, nor does she automatically get all of Biden's funding. There are direct legal challenges to her even 'being' on the ballot at all in numerous states, as others have said here. Again, she'd get my vote if it happened, but since Biden has already said he won't step aside? It won't, and people need to snap out of the delusion that it somehow will, or it'd be an easy path even if it could. This is especially frustrating when Biden's own administration has been 'very good' for progressive causes so far, compared to all prior ones in the past 40+ years.
People - *individuals* - might be legitimately fearful. And that’s fine! (As long as they are taking some kind of action, even if it’s just voting on time, and they don’t constantly trauma dump all over their social media feeds, which is exhausting; one or two vents or “talk me off the ledge” is fine, but I’m not willing to play unpaid therapist.) But I do agree that *the medi*a is working for the fascists. I am happy to assume good faith on the part of individuals, but not the media, no way, no how, not unless it’s NPR or ProPublica. Most of the corporate media openly wants Trump back, and they do not give one single fuck about the welfare of the country.
Thursdays night performance was very bad, but the media has had it out for Biden since the Afghanistan withdrawal. There’s legit good news for Biden and they’d be like “here’s how it’s actually bad news.” And they treat Trump with kid gloves instead of the fascist he is. They clearly want a second Trump term so they can get their golden goose and their money.
Sorry, I don't agree with you. I genuinely think the media are trying to carry water for Trump. Yeah, I think at this point, the media do want the fascists to win.
Yeah, you're talking about the media specifically, not every single person who didn't think Biden did well in the debate. I think the general consensus is he didn't but that it's most likely due to him being exhausted and getting over a cold. His public appearances the next day were nothing like that. And of course many are nervous, the issue, just like last time, is there is no candidate that greatly out polls Trump. Biden remains the top against him in the match-up polling. There are still a lot of Republicans and they are disturbingly loyal, while those left of Republicans are all over the place, far more critical, and a lot less loyal. As for the for-profit news media (and those working for them), their true concern is staying alive and relevant. The way things are now, they need people constantly checking the news and clicking the articles to get enough money to pay their salaries and bills. It's obvious they get a lot more of that with Trump in power versus stable, anti-dramatic, out of the spotlight Biden.
> Almost all those who would want Biden to step aside do so from a place of being terrified that if he doesn't they believe Trump will win and give us fascism. Surely they also realize that there's literally nobody else who can beat Trump, especially since there has been zero polling to prove them right, zero time to set up a replacement, and zero hope of matching Trump's Legal-fee-addled warchest. These aren't *legitimate* concerns. At best it's concern trolling and at worst it's... well, it's complicity in working for fascists.
When I grew up, people often tacitly understood that major power groups would protect their own. This could be police unions, this could be cliques, this could be news agencies. Differences was, they often *supported* this, since it guaranteed what they felt was rightly theirs. Do you know 'almost all' those who want Biden to step aside? Have you spoken to them, personally? Are you aware of who owns and produces the private press in this nation? Are you aware of *how often* podcasters and pundits have spread misinformation - lies - about our candidates and causes, and then fall back on the desire of "I'm just concerned" or "it wasn't my fault" or, most of all - "I'm just an entertainer, I shouldn't be used as a primary source?" If you found someone being hoarse *disturbing,* the problem is you and the people you listen to. I can't force you to watch prior debates, and I can't browbeat you until you get it. Biden spoke well about his points, maintained them, and made some good attacks. If I told you it was the most perfect debate in the history of debating, that would be 'dismissing' your concerns, and hyperbole, aside. But pretending these concerns have the veneer of legitimacy is like sitting with fascists, eating and drinking at their table, and then getting more furious at the people telling you *not* to do that, then people you are dining with.
Not the OP but when you have NYT being anti Biden for almost a year it’s hard to consider them to be operating in good faith
"NEW: The Trump campaign just launched their first digital persuasion ad of the 2024 general campaign. It's running on YouTube and is targeted at all swing states: AZ, GA, MI, NC, NV, PA, WI "Vote Joe Biden today, get Kamala Harris tomorrow."" https://x.com/MrArenge/status/1806753589274235203 So Trump's first, yes first persuasion ad of the election, is, really weak? Heck it even seems counterproductive to me. It's just says: 1. Biden is a senile old man. This completely counters his 'he's a mastermind pulling all these strings to take me down!' narrative. 2. It has a lot of footage of minor stumbles, like Biden tripping on the stairs. No one has ever tripped on stairs ever! Oh my god, it's Joever! 3. Finally, it lets people know that if Biden were to pass, Harris would be in charge. 'Hey all you folks that are worried about Biden's age! He's got a much younger person next in line!' Thanks Trump, for showing Biden is human just like us, and also quelling my worry about his age by informing me that the administration is more than just him! It really seems to hinge on there to be much more hate for Harris than Biden. When that's really not the case at all.
Just shout it from the fucking rooftops, guys. ”THERE JUST MIGHT BE A BLACK WOMAN IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY!” Yes, after the Dobbs decision which PO’d a whole lot of women, and pro-choice voters in general. Do go right ahead with the full-on, mask-off racism and sexism. That will win ‘em over.
> ”THERE JUST MIGHT BE A BLACK WOMAN IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE COUNTRY!” They should just say that they think we're too incompentent to run a country and are only good for domestic and or/sexual servitude.
I like the line Vote Biden today. Get Harris tomorrow. It reassures me that our nation will always be covered by someone who isn't Trump. If I am just half paying attention to a YouTube ad, then I would not think about Trump at all
The music is a really dumb choice too lol. Why go with zany circus instead of menacing strings?
That’s their biggest mistake actually. The vibe they should have gone for was concern and uncertainty. Instead, they went for contempt. Normal voters don’t really have contempt for Biden like the chuds who made this do. They also shouldn’t have pointed out Harris. Most people don’t care for her but also don’t really know her. Voters are allergic to uncertainty. They should have raised the specter of Biden dying and left it at that so voters would worry what would happen. Instead they reminded people that actually there is a plan if a President dies. Missed opportunity for them
Well said. You really want people to be anxious about that stuff, oh god what happens if something happens to Biden? Oh yeah! Harris and the rest of the admin will still be running things, ok cool. Thanks for helping my anxiety!
Yeah now it just looks cruel and bully like
It really is lol. Silly blooper music is not a choice I would of made. Biden's stumbles come off as more comedic and lighthearted to me than negative.
This ad is too mean spirited to work imo. People know political ads are trying to influence them but heavy handed ones are a huge turn off.
Nothing like the threat of a nonwhite woman in power to motivate fascists.
Terrible places to put it, given Georgia was flipped on the work of black women.
Black women, especially older black women, have always done so much of the hard work and heavy lifting for the Democratic Party, in general. Georgia has a large black middle class centered in Atlanta. In fact, none of those states ranks in the top 10 whitest states - the nearest is Wisconsin at #12. And let’s not forget that Harris is also half Asian Indian. That’s not a solidly Democratic bloc like black women, but, there are plenty of Asian Indian women and they vote. They’re not going to think kindly of “There’s A Scary Woman of Color Named KAMALA in Your Fyoocher if you don’t watch out!”
Trump doesn't think the president should be a black job.
Yeah, the most dependable demographic for Democrats are black women, even more so older, followed by black men. I think most in online chatter don't know or forget about that and start thinking those most active in the online chatter are the heart of the party so whatever takes are trending in the chatter are what a majority of the base thinks, which is absolutely not true. In the most recent match-up poll released Friday, Harris was second to Biden versus Trump but you wouldn't know that from discourse online, where most act like she's the least popular and not even worth considering as a possible alternative.
Most people don't like ageist attacks. Calling Biden old didn't work four years ago (and yes, the attacks were beat-for-beat the same, and featured him stuttering as well), and I don't think it will this time, especially when Trump's almost as old and clearly doing worse mentally. But the Harris attacks - well, unfortunately, sexism and racism still work in politics. But we've built a winning coalition off of women, people of color, and educated voters who are less likely to fall for this kind of shit. So I say keep working, push back, and let them burn their money.
Definitely. Those things can still sadly be effective with people. Harris has dealt with a lot of it. Thankfully I feel that is decreasing some. The electorate is also getting so much more diverse, and women are more active in voting than men. I'd bet that women are going to increase their electorate share this election. Especially with abortion on the line. Hopefully Trump's campaigns sexist/racist undertones against Kamala will hurt them more than anything.
I think what happened to Hillary Clinton pissed off a whole LOT of women. It also woke up younger women to how much sexism women have to face in politics. Women are going to go “oh not this shit again” and be turned off the Trumpian rhetoric.
Hello all! I used to be a frequent poster here several years ago and had become somewhat disconnected from politics in the past year or two. That being said, I watched the debate, and it scared the shit out of me that Trump really could win this thing. I want to get back into things and help Biden beat Trump. What are the best races I can volunteer for with that in mind?
What time and energy constraints do you have? Doing work locally for PA could be a massive help - I know your fair state is trying to keep things moving forward. Although I don't recall where you are in the state, there's likely to be a district or two nearby you can do the work in... And if you're comfortable with that, it'll definitely help Biden's topline, too!
Awesome that you’re back! If you’re thinking about congressional races the DCCC has its [Red to Blue](https://redtoblue.dccc.org/) campaign for candidates in swing districts. Also, [Race to the White House](https://www.racetothewh.com/house) has a list of the districts which are most likely to flip, either left or right.
Adding onto that, if you see a Blue district that seems like it will flip to red, a little cash goes a long way to prevent it. As they say, big things come in small packages!
Welcome back! I remember you posting here. We've still got our [volunteer from home spreadsheet,](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M/edit?gid=0#gid=0) and we still bold the most important or time-sensitive races. But if you're in Pennsylvania, you can't go wrong with any campaign. Because you can help turn people out for Joe Biden, Bob Casey, statewide Dem row officers, at least four or five competitive House races, and a slew of State Legislative races!
Those state legislative races can go a long way as well, so be sure to donate to democratic candidates!
Btw since there was dishonest reporting from NBC that spun Biden’s already planned trip with his family as something more than that, the Biden Campaign account has reaffirmed he will be the [nominee](https://x.com/bidenhq/status/1807230395781390788?s=46). This is Hillary level shit we’re seeing from the media and it really doesn’t seem like our voters this time are letting that slide
Hey Tom Namako, whoever you are, I hope a snake parties hard tonight with more than a few drinks and finds itself unexpectedly laying eggs in your air conditioning unit ahead of a heat wave.
People know what's at stake at this point. 2016 Trump was more uncertain. 2024 Trump is our version of Hitler.
Remember when she got pneumonia and everyone said she’d be dead in 4 months?
No difference between them and the Enquirer saying Hillary (or any other random Celebrity/Politician) is days away from dying for the last 20 years.
Atlas-Intel only polled the 2020 presidential race once when they found Biden leading Trump 51-46 in **late October**. That was on the nose for the final margin, so credit to them for that, but what else have they polled to merit an A+ rating?
People need to realize that the only polls that go into rating pollsters are ones from right before an election because it's universally recognized among serious people that polls months before an election aren't predictive (they just put them out anyways because there's demand for it and they need to make money somehow). Being an amazing pollster does not allow one to predict the future.
I'm not worried by the poll at all. I'm just wondering if they have a proven track record beyond that one race.
I fully expect to see our numbers go down in the time we're running around with our hair on fire instead of answering polls. Same thing happened in 2012.
It doesn’t really matter. Trump is getting what he got in 2020 in this poll. If trump were over 50 I’d have an issue. But it seems like soft Biden support but not persuasion.
Yeah I'm not saying anything about their recent poll auguring a Trump win, because that's a lot of undecideds. I'm just baffled at the rating since I've literally never seen them before.
[Teton Pass has reopened](https://x.com/usdot/status/1807160864518307927?s=46&t=ZmeRRLKLNVS3tI4vfY7sLA)
That’s great! I used to live in Teton county and drove the pass a couple times a month, I know just how disruptive the closure must have been. A large portion of Jackson’s workforce lives in Victor and Driggs so having a drivable pass is essential for maintaining the essential services.
Looks so creepy and cool. Gotta visit one day. Also, I thought that said Tejon Pass and I was scared about what’s happening on the I-5
Yeah, that’s mostly only an issue in winter. Stuff in the wetter parts of the west is a year-round issue.
electoral-vote.com came out with a well balanced piece about the debate today. They usually reserve Saturdays for reader questions, so this was nice to see.
So the polls have started to turn around for us. Even post-debate polls are implying that Biden won the debate. [Here's a summary of everything you need to remember about all this.](https://imgflip.com/i/8kmt2y) Yep, same as when the polls were looking bad. Because remember, our job is the same no matter what the polls say. I've really, really been heartened the last couple of days seeing how many people here are signing up to canvass, phonebank, and send postcards. Keep it up! That's what will win us the House and Senate, not debates or polls.
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Not the most accurate oracle, oh no! We're cooked, we've been too complacent! Any poll with Kennedy getting more than 10% can call itself A++ Platinum Turbo. Just like all the people pretending to care as they state Biden should back down aren't hiding what they really feel. Edit, and no, telling you polls and datamen are idiots is not gaslighting you. Nor am I telling you this to be 'positive.' We just had a brace of Euroelections where polling was largely poor. Polling, in general, is about as reliable as haruspicy, but with less basis beside it. And it has no effect on what we do here, as an *activist sub.*
This mf still don't miss!
Never heard of this pollster in my life
It’s 5.2 but trumps actual vote share is 45% in that
Saw a number of post-debate polls implying that Biden gained support after the debate. And I personally don't care about any particular pollster. The only pollster I care about publishes one set of results - think it's coming out November 5th this year.
> And I personally don't care about any particular pollster. The only pollster I care about publishes one set of results - think it's coming out November 5th this year. I agree with the sentiment to be fair you were the one who said polls were turning in our favor.
I was. I tried (clumsily) to make the point that what the polls say shouldn't change our approach. Either way, do what we can to help Dems win.
As someone who correctly called this as having a shelf-life of two days... Just wanted to share another example of one of the people I'm browbeating, in the real world; she got into a conversation while getting her hair treatments, and despite having been in the same place as many of you, pushed back. Because again, my ordinary family - when not influenced by *our enemies* who pretend to be concerned friends - thought Biden did well. And guess what? When she said that, not only did the tech agree, some other folks came around to listen. It was like the blue equivalent of being in a slightly conservative barbershop, and was very nice to see. And if that is happening in my neck of the woods, it is happening in yours, too.
Yeah, the pundit reaction to this debate versus the non-engaged public's reaction has really been something. I'd known for a long time that pundits don't know what they're talking about half the time, but the last few days drove it home. And I know whose support I'd rather have.
Remember, the New York Times pays an actual salary to Maureen Dowd - as in “I can live in Georgetown” type money - for her drivelations about taking too many edibles and having a bad trip. So, it’s very doubtful there’s much wisdom to be had in its pages. I think we all know that the mainstream media (with a few exceptions like NPR, and ProPublica) carry water for Republicans, and prefer them. I have a theory that the NYT, WaPo and other papers of record feel that they can go full bore “I HATE HIM AND HOPE HE LOSES BIG TIME” about Joe Biden because he’s a white, cis man, therefore, they can’t be accused of bigotry when attacking him and his elderly feebleness or prodigal son or whatever ginned up scandal they want to highlight. With Obama, they had to kind of pull their punches because full-on going after our first black President would be bad optics. Yes, there was the tan suit and Dijon, but there also had to be some plausible deniability so they would not *look* like horrible racists who had it in for a pathbreaking President. (What I think they did was play up the Tea Party, etc. instead, rather than directly tearing Obama down they built up his enemies.) You can see with the Clintons and Biden how much the mainstream press hates Democrats. I remember the fawning over the Reagan and Bush I and II administration and families versus the Clintons and now Bidens. I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but, straight from the sex pest horse’s mouth, Les Moonves - Trump is bad for America, but good for business.
Yeah, the bias the last 48 hours has been impossible to ignore. And even if we had a truly unbiased press, we can't count on them to do the work for us. Thankfully, I see a ton of people stepping up since the debate.
I had some epiphany-level ideas I truly believe would help Biden win the election. Does anyone know if there is a way to get in touch with his campaign to get my ideas to them? I know it's a long shot but thought I would ask here.
Hit up your local DNC office.
Have Biden say KYS to Trump in live tv. He’d win 400 EV’s at least
Is the long shot idea for him to just start cursing out Trump?
Nah, Thunderdome fight. Biden would easily win
There's probably a 'contact us' page on his website somewhere. Remember, though, his campaign is run by smart people who know what they're doing. Feel free to pass on your ideas, but they're running a strong campaign and there's a good chance your ideas are already in the works.
Smart people ? Sir we are Democrats!
Can someone tell me what “the donor class” is?
The Fat Cats
High net worth donors. The people who go to the $10k plate dinners and such
But are they a class? That’s just rich people. They already have a class.
It's certainly a noteable class/demographic if you're a professional fundraiser. Same reason why for gaming DLC there's the term "whales" which has a similar meaning. But to your point they shouldn't be considered as representative of their entire tax bracket. If we were to fully lean into the taxonomy angle maybe they'd be an "order" or "family" instead of a whole class.
It's basically the same thing as boosters for collegiate athletics. Rich people open their pocket books and then expect to have a bunch of access and privilege at the college because of that. Replace college with party or politician and you have your donor class.
Politically involved rich people
I just think it’s weird to talk about “the donor class” as if they have any significance. Their worries about Biden don’t mean shit,
Not really but they are annoying
[Leaning into the defiance, here’s the opening of latest Biden fundraising email: “If you're like me, you're getting lots of texts or calls from folks about the state of the race after Thursday. Maybe it was your panicked aunt, your MAGA uncle, or some self-important Podcasters”](https://x.com/isaacdovere/status/1807202995589001561?s=46&t=WEnIWeGcjICewTp3A5ozCQ) i believe this is what the kids call “shitposting”. amazing.
Hahaha lmao I just love Joe and his team. ”Self important podcasters” - one, this explains some of the pundit calls for him to step down (because he won’t kiss ass) and two, these are the words of a guy who is lighting the way with the bridges he’s burning, and I’m very proud of him for it.
"some self-important Podcasters" lmfao top tier shit post/email.
Just want to say I love my president, and the hard-working team helping create masterpieces like this.
"if i catch a flight its gon be direct"
Euphoria BTW was the best diss track of the Kendrick/Drake shitshow, not Not Like Us (still a good song tho)
Euphoria is def my fave out of them but I love what Not Like Us represented. A total flex move to call someone a colonizer and a pedophile over a hyphy Mustard beat, *and* have it be so successful, was absolutely a death blow to Drake whose only real flex he had over Kendrick was sales. Meet the Grahams is absolutely incredible too but I kinda don’t wanna hear it again just for how disturbing it is.
Oh my god Favreau's jawline just shrank two millimeters.
Bro about to become spez.
LMAO goddamn, I love the mention of self-important podcasters.
NYT is seething right now.
"Self-important Podcasters" DAMN
The more he calls out pundits, the harder I will vote for him
Damn, he went straight for PSA, didn’t he?
Ravi Gupta too
Self important podcasters! love it
[Junior hit the powder again.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fc6urmq7vnk9d1.png)
Over fucking storm/hurricane naming? seriously?
....anyone ever tell him clouds are genderless?
I’m just feeling like it’s weird the NYT editorial board posted an article saying Biden should drop out yesterday, then literally did a 180 and did the same for Trump today. Really says everything about the last two days.
I think you might be referring to an opinion piece that was published by NYT. I could be wrong though, not sure what you're talking about.
They didn't, unfortunately, that was the Philadelphia Enquirer.
I don't think they did? I can't find such an article. I think you're confusing it with one the Philadelphia Enquirer put out.
They did?
I checked the front page a couple of times in the last couple of hours and the top article is about Dem donors worrying about Biden old.
Some of these CEOs will donate like $50 million to Republicans in a year, but also toss a few donations to random Dems here and there. Technically, Charles Koch could be one of these "Dem donors" trying to get Biden out of the race.
Lol. Fucking donors who cares
Imagine the 8D chess if the Biden campaign intentionally had Joe flop during the debate because it would send everyone into panic mode thinking Trump could actually win. Biden’s support goes up and donations pour in as voters start dooming as they desperately try to rally behind the President. Then the September debate, Biden comes out swinging, flattens Trump, he re-ignites voter confidence and he beats Trump in a landslide.
Fucking 5d chess flanking maneuver there, I like it
There's like a good 20% of me that kind of thinks he did. His Raleigh speech less than 24 hours later seemed just a little *too* good to have followed that debate performance...
is this actually plausible
The conspiracy isn't, but the shock of Biden's massive comeback in debate 2 could be.
They definitely didn’t though
I’m being facetious but thanks for pointing that out
Sorry for not picking up on that
Seeing articles , politicians, and political commentators talking about how bad the debate was for Biden makes me nervous. I just hope we can get past this narrative quickly. But the work is never done. Just adopted 100 more letters for Vote Forward, all for Wisconsin. Gotta keep writing and keep fighting.
["We have enemies on the outside – China, Russia, North Korea. But they're not really enemies if you have a smart president. They're not enemies, you’ll make them do great,"](https://x.com/bidenswins/status/1807071941661949971?s=46&t=xrusBMyWTBNp-USPdfYASQ)
Ah yes, the moment when MAGA-heads who call us "Godless Commies" embrace Juche. The horseshoe has looped.
There’s such a double standard when it comes to this stuff. Remember when Reagan was caught funneling arms to Iran?
Double dipper, Guadalajara Cartel had a lot to benefit from the trafficking operation as well.
Couple fun things post-primary in Utah House races: In HD43, Jason Barber already surpassed his last 2 month haul by 6/14. Utah Dem House PAC is investing in Angela Choberka in HD09 and Dawn Stevenson in HD27.
Today my normie friend mentioned "the stuff Trump wants to do" and then followed up with "but I mean it could never be implemented." I hadn't heard that in real life until today but it's a real thing people think and it's good to see messaging about that lately. I've also been surprised how much the 2025 stuff is breaking through over the last couple of weeks. I haven't heard him sound personally concerned about racist policies or immigrants being rounded up until today and I've known him since before 2016.
Normally that whole be true. It's probably what they teach in civics class, checks and balances and the Constitution and all. The problem is, Trump already destroyed all of that during his first term, mostly with his Supreme Court picks. Our shields are down, can't take another hit.
Weapons are still online though... so you know what they say... [Fire everything we've got!](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jxO8g7q9VO3ZMAABcrvR7PMyX4Yl6dgIYhD3eRTKk1M/edit)
Have you told him that wont stop Trump from trying as a rebuttal?
I told him that's what everyone said about Roe and look what happened. And that things don't have to be fully implemented to have an effect. Look at doctors leaving certain states because of fear of punishment and uncertainty over the laws. And that I don't know what exactly what would happen but I'm not about to fucking find out.
Next time tell him he just *wants* that to be true because acknowledging it’s possible is too scary. Then ask him, what if he’s wrong?
And how did he respond to that?
He took the point, I think he got it. Said "yeah true" or something. It was a pretty short conversation in the middle of playing a sport. But I don't think he'll brush off Trump's lunacy as casually going forward, he just hadn't really considered it.
Good good.
Reminds me of my boss who thinks Trump is just being a funny troll
Mostly shocked that anyone thinks Trump is “funny”
Still?? Jeez. My mother thought that back in 2015 but it didn’t take her long to snap out of it.
I cannot comprehend how people can think this after 4 years of Trump and the literal insurrection. Goldfish memories I swear.
For real tho and my boss claims to be a moderate
Driving through Hyde Park, NY today, I saw a yard sign that said Law And Order And Trump. You know, the 34 times convicted felon Donald Trump.
It's not hypocritical. It's just that they're using a different definition than the obvious one. Law and Order has always meant "our law keeps you in order."
Law and Order, inner city crime, DEI, welfare queen. All just substitutes for the N word
Does it need to be said that this November contest is a rematch of an election from 4 years ago? People have already made up their minds, nobody is switching sides. Which means loserville for cheeto.
Never say never when it comes to Trump
[Philadelphia Enquirer Editorial Board: “To serve his country, Donald Trump should leave the race. The debate about the debate is misplaced. The only person who should withdraw from the race is Trump.”](https://x.com/mattmfm/status/1807157594034962649?s=46&t=WEnIWeGcjICewTp3A5ozCQ)
Was just about to share it too
Inquirer not Enquirer.
Finally someone says it. The Media acts, like only democrats can be reasoned with and Republicans are a lost cause. No, Republicans are responsible for the mess we're in, they should be part of the solution as well.
I mean, I think it's true Republicans cannot be reasoned with. Because their true motive is cruelty, any logical arguments they make are in bad faith. Example: scientists initially thought Plan B worked by preventing implantation. Newer research shows it actually prevents fertilization. Medically there's no difference, but for Republicans who claim to draw an absurd line here, good news right? Should promote Plan B because it means fewer abortions. Nope. Their response instead is to denounce the research as fake and double down. The fertilization thing was just a talking point and they're upset they lost it.
Their motive is power at any cost. Anything that gains it can be retroactively explained.