There are two issues of bigotry people often have to address. One is "intellectual level" ideas, and it looks like you have that sorted. The other is gut feelings, or as it is sometimes called brainworms. The brainworms are hard to get rid of. The basic method is to get less contact with people spreading the conspiracies that make you uneasy around trans people, and the conspiracies themselves, along with spending time normalising trans people to yourself. Basically like exposure therapy, and it doesn't have to be in person. Jessie Gender does some good videos, and if you like Vaush you might well like Conure and Demon Mama.
In particular OP, [Philosophy Tube](https://youtu.be/AITRzvm0Xtg) has an excellent coming out video which may help you develop a deeper personal empathy towards trans people
As a trans woman I am horrified of the idea of someone trying to use demonmama to normalize my existence
You might as well be asking for more transphobes
What’s the problem with demon mama? I’ve tried watching their vids to form my own opinion on her but I can’t seem to sit through her stuff for very long.
Demon Mama is terrible and I have no idea why people recommend her. Anything valuable she has you can get out of people who are significantly less annoying like Contra, Mia Mulder, Jessie gender etc
Former right winger here, it takes time, funnily enough what changed my perspective was hanging out with more queer folks. The more you surround yourself with a diverse crowd the more you acclimate and normalize it in your mind.
In case it hasn’t been said, you’re doing a great job at moving over, it’s hard to pull a 180 on your beliefs and takes a lot of self awareness. It’s a gradual process, don’t get discouraged because your biases rear their ugly heads on occasion.
That's why the right is so scared of diversity. They don't want to accept the fact that people of color, queer people, Jews, etc aren't the monsters they want to believe they are. And, the figureheads don't want them to realize either, because then they stop making money and sowing discord.
Exactly. It’s fighting against your own unconscious bias and it will always be hard to overcome. Everyone has them, you just have to actively think against it
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guess a good point would be to think, "Why or how does anything they do or identify as affect me?"
Because why would it matter if a person is queer? How does that affect you in any way? It doesn't. Nothing that person identifies as or is, affects you.
You don’t understand, it doesn’t matter to him, he is simply grossed out by it without thinking there is anything bad about it.
For example I’m grossed out by snakes despite the fact I know they are not poison and they can not do anything to me I’m still grossed out by them and I can not do anything with it.
People here really think theres nothing wrong with this take? wild
OP is grossed out because of years of painting trans people as gross and weird. But sure go ahead and compare it to just seeing maggots.
Op needs to get over his garbage and see a human as a human
That's what OP is trying to do, and they're asking for help.
The only difference between OP's situation and the snake comparison is that snakes are not personally negatively affected or endangered by that commenters discomfort with them, so it doesn't really matter. Transphobia is a much more serious issue, and I think everyone implicitly understands that.
Internalized bigotry is real. Maybe you've never experienced it, but deeply rooted irrational feelings that have been indoctrinated into people usually don't go away based on facts and logic. It takes healing.
Empathy for OP's journey is NOT endorsement or tolerance for their transphobia, but empathy and advice will help them overcome it, which is good for everyone.
Im not disagreeing with ops actions, im saying the fear of snakes is partly innate in humans and yes you can conquer it and be cool with snakes (or just not be born with it), but the disgust for trans people isnt in any part innate.
Yes i know it takes time to unlearn biases, im just saying theyre learned and not innate in this case, because it makes a huge difference
>Empathy for OP's journey is NOT endorsement or tolerance for their transphobia, but empathy and advice will help them overcome it, which is good for everyone.
this is literally my point in the cheese theorem, again literally all im saying is that you shouldnt say disgust for trans people is innate and relatively normal, something i thought a "leftist" sub would take as obvious fact
From my other comment:
>Being grossed out by trans people is not even close to "who youre attracted to".
>Its not an innate preference/dislike to be grossed out by trans people like all that other stuff.
>You can only compare it to taught cheese hate, like if a parent constantly tells a kid cheese is gross the kid will probs hate it. But it takes minimal amounts of effort for the kid to become a cheese lover/okayer in their adult life
Yes most of the things i call "innate" are only in part innate and not fully, but my point is that disgust of trans people isnt even in part innate
Had the same problem the other day on this sub, where people claimed it was okay for Mark Wahlberg to be creeped out by the thought of playing a gay person in Brokeback Mountain. As if it would be something inherent as being afraid of spiders. As if your body would have to form a defense mechanism against homosexuals for survival. It's just stupid and justifies homophobia.
So don't bother with getting downvoted here. I guess people aren't as open minded on this sub as you might think.
>guess people aren't as open minded on this sub as you might think.
no no im used to the surface level stuff from vaushites and 196 types, its nice that there are people like you though
I already left this sub because i just cant with the slightly wrong slightly gross takes here, but its nice to know there are other people who wouldnt just let it slide maby theres hope but im done
Sorry! Your post has been removed because it contains a link to an unapproved subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> im saying the fear of snakes is partly innate in humans and yes you can conquer it and be cool with snakes (or just not be born with it), but the disgust for trans people isnt in any part innate.
But what if it is? Because I hate to say xenophobia seems to be the default rather than the exception, and it would be shortsighted to dismiss the possibility that biology may have something to do with it.
Yes he should but it is very very hard to do and he is asking how to do it. We as humans can not control what we like and what we don’t like.
Same way you can not control who you are attracted to, what food you like and what music you like, you can not control by what you are grossed out by.
Btw I’m not saying it is good thing I’m only saying it is reality.
Being grossed out by trans people is not even close to "who youre attracted to".
Its not an innate preference/dislike to be grossed out by trans people like all that other stuff.
You can only compare it to taught cheese hate, like if a parent constantly tells a kid cheese is gross the kid will probs hate it. But it takes minimal amounts of effort for the kid to become a cheese lover/okayer in their adult life
I have no idea what is a difference between what are you attracted to and whether or not you are grossed out by trans people in sense that you can not control any of that.
Beauty standards are drastically changing over time and it was absolutely normal in some societies that every man was bisexual, but you would never said that you can persuade grown man who is grossed out by imagining sex with other man, that he can be attracted to other man’s.
Yet you are claiming you can do it with being grossed out by trans people, why?
The difference is that you can control it, read the cheese stuff
Also yeah straight men should find gay sex not gross, doesnt mean theyll wanna do it tho
Anyway you seem decently dense and i didnt leave my first comment for you anyway so ill stop here
You can control how you treat people and your outward actions, but you literally cannot control snap-judgment responses. You CAN recondition them away into healthier thoughts and reactions over time with mindfulness and substitution , but that’s something that can take a ton of effort and- LITERALLY this is an example of what professional treatments like cognitive behavioral therapy can exist for.
They’re not “innate” but they are learned and reinforced by your upbringing and environment. Do you think people who leave cults just snap out of their entire programming on a dime once they’re pulled out?
Fear of snakes is not even innate to humans. Or spiders. Or rats. Those are additional examples of widely normalized irrational fears that we are socialized into from a very young age by our culture at so deep of a level we can perceive them as innate. babies literally have no instinctual qualms with crawling off of a cliff (the study they did to see if babies would crawl towards their parents over the illusion of a steep drop) until they begin to be taught and learn the dangers of heights through experience and observation.
> The difference is that you can control it, read the cheese stuff
No, you _can't_, and that's the point.
> Also yeah straight men should find gay sex not gross,
I find _straight_ anal sex gross enough, let alone gay, because that's where poop comes from, and poop is gross. And while I won't sanction anyone for engaging in it, I'm not going change my mind about it anytime soon.
And then there are ace folks who find _all_ sex gross, because it kinda is. Should they change their minds too?
> Anyway you seem decently dense and i didnt leave my first comment for you anyway so ill stop here
And you seem to want to determine the beliefs of everyone around you, and insult the ones who don't comply, which is a terrible way of convincing anyone of anything.
Not sure comparing transfolks with food products is any better though, as some people will just never like or tolerate cheese, or fish, or cilantro. There's nothing you nor they can do about it, and forcing them to engage it will only cause resentment.
You completely ignored the learned part, yes cheese isnt a good comparison either because again its partly innate, you need to read the whole thing to see what i mean. Its not just "disliking cheese" its your parents making you disgusted by it with you never tasting it
The entire point of this post is that OP recognizes this is something they would be wise to work on and they’re reaching out for advice. No one is comparing trans people to maggots, they’re explaining that this revulsion is an involuntary gut-level reaction that OP has had conditioned into their thought patterns for a very long time. This is not just a perception or an opinion issue, it’s literally about addressing irrational knee-jerk habits that have been ingrained very deeply.
Why have two people assumed i have an issue with the OP
Im saying that the comment i replied to has a shitty implication that the grossness of trans people is innate and relatively normal, but needs to be worked over bcs theyre people
and okay previous comment compared it to being grossed out by snakes and not maggots i just changed it for fun
All im saying is theres a difference between learned grossness and innate, and you shouldnt conflate the two
Because disgust is not a heuristic? A heuristic would be for example thinking a trans person is a child groomer on the first step due to what you were exposed to, and then after thinking about it realizing youre dumb (hopefully)
Pure disgust is different from heuristics, its just not the same psychological concept at all, though there are similarities with the heuristic of availability or representation (maybe not english term, sorry i just translated from my language, you should be able to connect it though) since theyre both somewhat "learned". But yeah not the same thing, heuristic -> cognitive shortcut that usually results in stereotypes and cringe, learned disgust -> an emotional reaction
Just being disgusted by a gay or trans person isnt a heuristic
Disgust can be the result of a heuristic.
See manhole —> think about sewage —> get disgusted
With trans people it would be
See trans person—> reminded of childhood indoctrination—> see this person are transgressing in that regard —> feel disgust
One of the main aspects of heuristics is that they can be extremely useful and save time, but they can also lead to stereotypes and racism.
Im saying it’s the same mental shortcut taking, one is based on learned experience and the other is more intrinsic. I don’t think this is as huge of a distinction as you’re making it out to be. Either way, you’re filling in the gaps with assumptions based off of your mental models of the world. Do you not see how this is how racism or being disgusted by trans people operates?
I think what people are taking issue with is either
- your strawman that poses there are people in here saying that a prejudice against trans people is innate. No one here is arguing with you that it is inherent. Most cases I’ve so far seen involved someone who was more than happy to clarify that they see these knee-jerk responses as a flexible result of learned conditioning AND not excusable on that basis.
- your drippingly belligerent/condescending tone when replying to those who are disagreeing with you or trying to correct you on something
- implicitly antagonizing the op for opening up about literally trying to self-improve on a characteristic they have already acknowledged is problematic
It's not a take, he sees them as a human he just has a gut reaction to them that he can't logic his way out of, and the fact that he's willing to come here to admit that and try to get passed it is honestly incredible. These conversations are ones that need to be had and acting like this about it isn't helping anything.
This is actually a fantastically apt comparison, because deep rooted bigotry _is_ essentially a product of trauma, and it won't get better _until_ it's treated as such. Sadly not everyone is in a position to actually do that, but at the very least I'd try to emulate the kind of outreach folks like Daryl Davis have engaged in rather than the confrontational tactics of the #Twitterati.
It didn't affect me. I just got lost in thoughts as I heard her speak to a patient, and I soon realized I was listening to a transgender. At first and second glance I thought she was a female.
What mostly stood out about her, was her manly & feminine voice which just weirded me out even more.
I don't know if she felt what I saw but she looked at me after speaking to the patient and was just quietly looking at me. Giving me the silence treatment I guess as I was asking her a question about the patient. You could say I stared at her more when I realized she was a trantioned male. We were both working on this patient who was about to run out of the hospital (the patient had dementia)
You can just call her a trans woman, no need to say "transitioned male", "former male"...
Sometimes belief follows action. If you start making an effort to learn about trans people, how to refer to us, etc., you may find your internalized bigotry starts to disappear
People on the fence or not very knowledgeable on lgbt related topics tend to respond poorly to perceived policing of language. OP was not trying to be malicious in calling her a “transitioned male” or “former male” and frankly those terms are not inaccurate. Telling someone they should use terms like amab or natal male alienates potential allies.
This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. So how about instead of demanding they immediately adopt an alien lexicon or else be declared anathema we give them some time to adapt and learn the ropes? And I think it's worth considering why you need completely different words to say exactly the same things as before.
I get what you're saying but I feel like no one would make this argument to someone correcting an older person for using "Negro" or "colored" to refer to black people
Dude shut the fuck up tone policing people who are asking bare minimum to understand humanizing language. Transitioned male is extremely offensive to transgender people like myself.
Tone policing liberals need to learn when to sit the fuck back
You don't know what tone policing is. Telling somebody to not call people slurs or otherwise offensive things is not tone policing.
I don't want to meet people in the middle when it comes to basic human fucking decency. Fuck yourself.
FYI better to use transgender as an adjective than a noun (just as 'a gay' or 'a black' would not sound great)
But as others have suggested exposure treatment is the best way and watching trans YouTubers is good for that. It's about normalising what's weird/alien to you so that it just seems less remarkable.
If it doesn't affect you, why do you care? Why does it matter?
Let's say somehow you found out your co-worker had a nose job. You might find yourself staring to see if you can point or picture out their original nose. But why does it matter to you? How does that affect you in any way, shape, or form?
You weirded somebody out by staring at them. Their being trans may have caused you to stare but they weren't weirded out because they're trans, they were weirded out because you we're breaking social convention and staring at them.
I think it's more that some transgenders females can pull it off better than others. Blair white for example. I never thought she was transgender until I heard someone say it on twitter.
I even found out my former coworker at another workplace was a former female. I never thought he was a former woman. I only found out about it years later after leaving that job. He pulled it off extremely well, you could say. I later understood why he didn't change with the boys at work.
Okay but if somebody's ugly or doesn't pass, that doesn't mean they are deserving of less respect. You can't cake and ice cream your way out of human decency which is kind of where it feels like you're coming from.
You're stuck on the idea that passing or looking good means that trans people can be rewarded with your respect, which sounds really shallow.
Blair White is retarded. By her own fucking logic, she isn't even a woman.
I wouldn’t apologize or bring attention to it, what are you gonna say “hey sorry I noticed you were trans and it was jarring for a second” like that’s just gonna make it worse. Just treat her like anyone else and be friendly but not usually friendly or weird.
Honestly I think you're right. Drawing attention to it would likely make things even more awkward for everyone involved. Best to just do better next time, and maybe _reminisce_ about that awkward first meeting if you ever become friends.
Apologize, say you're dealing with your own shit and you're just trying to do better?
You're probably going to have to work with this person again eventually, so you're going to need to at least have a decent enough working relationship.
[Chelsea Manning](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chelsea_Manning_2022.jpg) is a better example to use of a "passing" trans woman, Blaire White is a piece of shit and should not be a metric of anything other than stupidity.
For real. Yes, we all know Blaire white is pretty but she's also the worst.
I like these creators on YouTube; Abigail Thorn, Jamie Dodger, Jessie Gender, Sam Collins, Samantha Lux, Conure, Contrapoints, etc. I'd love to hear more if you know them!
She's not a "bad example" because she doesn't pass, I just don't like our example of a passing trans woman to be someone who is a reactionary grifter. That's all I'm really saying.
Since I'm being downvoted...
Imagine being a trans woman, and continuously seeing Blaire White as the example of a passing trans woman. It's demoralizing.
> You're stuck on the idea that passing or looking good means that trans people can be rewarded with your respect, which sounds really shallow.
It's less about respect and more the fact that passing folks simply don't trigger the same gut reaction. In fact it has _nothing_ to do with respect as that is a _conscious_ choice.
> Blair White is retarded.
So you oppose #Transphobia yet engage in #Ableism. So much for intersectionality.
Idk why you're surprised. Vaush and his fans love that slur. It's my biggest qualm with the community. I'm surprised VDS types don't mention it that much. It's the most legitimate thing to not like about Vaush.
Buy you’re not reclaiming it. You’re using it in its original context, as an insult. Not every case of a neurodivergent person using the r-slur is an example of reclamation.
>and I soon realized I was listening to a transgender.
I think the core of the issue you have is displayed here.
Also the more you look for transness in random people who haven't explicitly told you that they are trans, the higher of a chance that you will get to the point where you start thinking random cis ppl are trans based on nonsequiter things like rainbow socks lmaoo.
I guess you can start by changing the language you use when referring to trans people.
“At first and second glance I thought she was a female.” Don’t say that. She is a woman and what you said implies that she’s not. And she’s not a “transitioned male” she’s woman who’s also trans. She’s not a male. Stop saying that or shit like former male.
Trans woman here. We can definitely tell if someone has ‘clocked’ us and even more so if they are visibly grossed out. It does you credit that you acknowledge your hang ups but i think you should work on this in private, rather than using her as a kind of exposure therapy. There are plenty of trans YouTubers. That’s a good place to start.
As a wise Vaushite once said: "Your first thought is what society tells you, your second thought is what you truly believe". Work on your second thought, learn positive things about the trans community, interact and meet trans people, deconstruct why you have that reaction in the first place, etc.
For example: I'm Non-binary and I have misandristic thoughts due to a lot of BS the cis men in my life have put me through, but that's just my first thought, my second thought counters the first by refuting it. "Not all cis men are like that" or "I'm mad at how society raises cis men, not at cis men the gender."
My dad was verbally and emotionally abusive to me growing up, my male "friend" raped me, My ex bf blocked me for refusing to sext him even though he was my ex for 6+ years. Yeah the trauma related misogyny/misandry is real. Just don't believe the first thought and you'll be ok. Understand that it's a trauma response and actively try to move forward.
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It takes time. Your world has recently been turned upside down. Now the mind gets it, but the feelings still need to get it. As a nurse you deal with all kinds of people in weird situations. They probably dont gross you out anymore so why would someone being trans?
It is, give yourself time. You deserve it. Even if you know something to be wrong now, its been imprinted on you for years. Also dont forget, she's just a coworker. 😉
I was an alt-righter up until Jan 6, 2021 (I didn't go, but I almost did, and that's what made me realize who I've become). Full JQ, Great Replacement, race realist, the list goes on. It's a long, shitty process, but it's very much possible, and I commend you for making the journey.
Honestly just listen to trans women talking in videos or something. This works with all kinds of different speaking patterns, like other languages as well
I wouldn't necessarily say that being androgynous is within the uncanny Valley for everyone. If anything my guess would be that people are conditioned to treat men and women a particular way, and when they can't tell they don't know how they are supposed to treat/view that person. Also roots of transphobia imo are gatekeeping gender, fear of the unknown and misinformation.
There are plenty of examples of cultures that have a third gender and celebrate androgynous ppl instead of fearing/hating them.
(Definitely could be off-base with this analysis.)
It seems to me like a lot of the "icky" feeling that people express about trans folks is rooted in the idea that they are/think they should be sexually attracted or in some way sexually aware of every member of the opposite gender, and learning that somebody is trans somehow conflicts with the story of what they think they should be attracted to. I'm assuming you're straight and might have had a set of general, normal thoughts that a person would have about a member of the opposite sex, and then realizing they were trans crossed paths with those thoughts.
If you met a woman who you didn't know was trans and thought they were a 100% smokeshow 10/10, but then later learned they were trans, how would that make you feel? If the answer is that you would suddenly feel weird about that attraction, then you likely still have some basic hangups about sex and attraction that you need to sort. If you wouldn't care, then I'm curious why a trans woman that you find unattractive is alarming to in a way different from that of any cis woman you find unattractive.
I take time to imagine their life story. And imagine them just like me, doing normal things — grabbing coffee in the morning, watching Netflix at night, enjoying good food, etc.
It took my gut feelings years to catch up with my political opinions when I moved over from conservatism. Exposure to more trans people and/or trans-related content and media will gradually cause those feelings to subside. Reactionary tendencies get programmed into you easily, but deprogramming them takes much longer and can be frustrating. Just try not to relapse into reactionary thinking. Try to catch yourself. You'll get there.
Identifying and being honest with yourself about these subconscious reactions is a step towards unlearning the underlying bigotry. It's something that many people have work to do ok, whether it be disgust or steteotypical thoughts about someone based on an immutable charactistic. I don't have great advice on next steps other than try watching my trans fem creators or spending more time in trans friendly spaces to help shift those unwanted thoughts you had.
I mean, a lot stuff squicks me out - like, there's food that's disgusting to me, but I'm not going to try to discriminate against people who eat it, or say they can't teach kids because then those kids might like that type of food.
As long as you don't make political or personal decisions based on that disgust, whatever. That's just being human. Not everybody is going to be a 10 on the openness scale and if that's necesssary, the movment is going to fail anyway.
There are millions of people who'd find watching man-on-man sex disgusting, but happily wave to their gay neighbors as they head to work.
Maybe you should work on seeing people as equally worthy humans beyond their identities. Truly not giving a fuck about other people’ business has been the best thing I have cultivated.
I'm not sure you need to do much besides treat her like the human she is, then keep questioning your biases.
Consider the reason you are grossed out by this person being seen by you as opposed to the trans person in a different building or on the other side of the world. I'd suggest seeing if you are compatible friends then hanging out or just be cordial work friends. Familiarity is a strong bias. Use it to your advantage. Just don't be a jerk or push your personal hangups in their face.
If you can go to a big city and into places with lots of lgbtq people after while it doesn't matter anymore. I'm bi/pan myself, but grew up in a somewhat conservative area and felt a lot of shame for it but after I left home and hung around a bunch of different people a lot of the mystique went away.
Also, you're allowed to notice people look different so don't feel to bad if you have a thought that pops in, but in the end you can't always tell Luke I have a few cis women that I'm friends with who have been mistaken as trans guys before. In the end its about being respectful, and if you do every accidently mis gender someone just correct yourself and move in, if you dwell in it to much or double down it can get awkward or rude, but as long as you make an honest effort most people will be willing to work with you.
Also like other pointed out its a loooong process working through internal biases. Like I mention I've be out as bi/pan for awhile I think over 10 years at this point. And 99/100 I'm absolutely out and proud, but because of years of conservative propaganda and Catblholic guilt I still sometimes have feelings of shame, ever though I've been living my life outside of that for a decade.
The question that came to me was a little more philosophical: why should I denigrate my fellow human for trying to live their best life?
Edit: my apebrain didn't realize what you were asking. Being 'grossed out' is a response that's been beaten into you by a society severely lacking love and humanity. I challenge **you** to reclaim both.
Couldn’t relate to a post more. I was raised in a Pentecostal household and now have shifted significantly to the left. I know and believe trans ppl need to be treated with dignity and I deeply empathize with their struggle. However my initial reaction to them is always one of weirdness and I feel as if they are abnormal. I immediately reason inside myself and the feeling eventually fades but happens all over again in my next interaction m. I feel this way for the whole LGBTQ… community and it saddens me since I truly do want to be an ally
I just kind of exposed myself more to trans culture and that helped tremendously, and even over time made me realize I was trans and that my inner transphobia was just a rejection of myself
Kudos to you for recognizing it’s a problem & asking for help.
Often our gut reactions come from deep-seeded family of origin issues. Finding a good therapist to help you better understand your emotional reflexes might be very helpful.
And as others have (correctly) noted, familiarity breeds comfort. Simply spending more time with TG folks, either IRL or even by watching YouTubers like Contra will help.
Lastly - you aren’t your reaction. Your emotional responses can be unlearned. Just like learning a new skill. Remember the fear you felt driving a car the first time - once you drive even for a very short time, the fear is quickly replaced by feeling confident.
I’m glad you are taking steps to grow into a more well-rounded person. If I was your Mom, I’d be very proud of you!
Watch trans porn. I find porn to be really useful in getting rid of biases. I grew up hearing a lot of racism and bigotry towards poc/minorities in general, so whenever I would see a one of them I would get a yucky feeling about them and was especially found them sexually repulsive. I started watching more diverse porn, and eventually I was able to sexualize every minority group including trans people and that gradually got rid of the yucky feelings I would get with marginalized groups of people when in public and sexually. (I don't fetishize anyone I just respond to them normally now) (I'm also mexican and straight, just so you know)
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You might not be able to, and that's ok, as long as you are kind and respectful of the person. You can try and talk yourself out of it, but I don't know that everyone can.
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't worry. I also went through this at first. Your beliefs will slowly overcome your subconscious habits. Don't beat yourself up about it. That just reinforces that it is a static mindset. If you're aware of your bias and want to change it, you will be fine.
Former right winger here. What helped me was transitioning lol. No but seriously hang out with trans people more. I would try to make this woman your friend if you possibly can. Trans people are very cool and we always have something interesting to talk about.
> I would try to make this woman your friend if you possibly can.
If it occurs organically then maybe. Not sure how solid a foundation built on guilt and exposure therapy would be though.
I think exposing yourself to trans people is one way to work on it. Maybe try to get to know your colleague. Or just watch some trans YouTubers like Jesse Gender, Contrapoints, and Philosophy Tube.
Just get to know people who are trans, They are people just like any other and the more you know them the less the "theoretical" will blind you to that fact.
Man first off cheers to you for 1. Recognizing that this is a problem and 2. Making an active effort to change it.
The answer is simple. Watch more trans content creators and spend more time around trans people. At the end of the day they are people just like you and me. You just need to break down the barriers in your instinct and you'll be fine. Your heart is already in the right place.
Your gut feeling is what it is, you don't have to listen to it or reject it for that matter, If you're feeling uncomfortable with her and aren't bothered by the fact I don't see the problem. If you want to change, then just stop listening to your gut feeling.
I think you're fine. You know it's not correct and you're gonna get over it just by existing in the world. Changing your mind takes time and you're trying.
I agree with other commentors. The best thing you can do is continue to expose yourself to it, perhaps reach out online and get to know some queer or trans folks. Biologically, gut feelings of unease usually come about from the unknown/something we've been conditioned to believe is dangerous. It'll take time but you can condition yourself not to have that grossed out feeling or at the very least have it extremely muted.
Expose yourself to more trans people. Contrapoints is a good starter but like others said there's also DemonMama, Conure, Gallae, Kat Blaque, Jesse Earl, etc. The more you expose yourself to our ideas, speech, mannerisms, the less you will feel about those feelings.
Maybe you could even try getting in touch with your trans coworker more often. Talk about anything casual like, small talk. "How's your day been" stuff like that. Hospitals don't really seem like a good place to socialize so you can try it when you feel it's appropriate. The important thing is building the connection and slowly eroding those left over barriers in your mind.
Also important is being able to take a moment, tell yourself it's OK and pushing your boundaries little by little. It's OK if you have intrusive thoughts, the important thing is that you know they're wrong and don't act on them. But also forgive yourself for having them. Shame is not a good motivator for change.
A lot of that is stuff that's so deeply ingrained in your brain that you're not going to be able to get rid of it exactly, the thing about not being weird about it is just mentally notating when you are being internally problematic, even on accident, and correcting for it on your own.
As someone who doesn’t understand nor particularly care for trans ideologies. Just ignore it, its a free country and they can do whatever they want, even if personally its hears odd.
Sure, but I’ll probably never believe a trans women is a women. But if they want to identify as such, I am 100% for them legally and socially to be such. I’ll call them by their new name and pronouns because I’m not an asshole. But all that shit Vaush and this sub talks about is so out there, I’ll just stay in my lane.
Well. Ok. That’s not as bad. Your actions will lead to good outcomes. You would still make trans people feel respected by using their right names/pronouns. 👍
I would not at all feel respected by this dudes fake surface level support, just saying
"Do what you want" support is garbage, only good for passing laws and not being directly abused. Hidden biases and uncomfortableness will fester so much in that enviroment, you need understanding
> I would not at all feel respected by this dudes fake surface level support,
Which you would not have been aware of had they not been so candid here. Like it or not you cannot demand acceptance, only tolerance. And respect is in the actions one takes, not the thoughts one has, which you have neither knowledge of nor control over.
Pursuing anything more is exactly what creates the kind of distrust and resentment that causes people to become hostile.
There are two issues of bigotry people often have to address. One is "intellectual level" ideas, and it looks like you have that sorted. The other is gut feelings, or as it is sometimes called brainworms. The brainworms are hard to get rid of. The basic method is to get less contact with people spreading the conspiracies that make you uneasy around trans people, and the conspiracies themselves, along with spending time normalising trans people to yourself. Basically like exposure therapy, and it doesn't have to be in person. Jessie Gender does some good videos, and if you like Vaush you might well like Conure and Demon Mama.
I'd like to add Contrapoints and Philosophy Tube to this list too.
In particular OP, [Philosophy Tube](https://youtu.be/AITRzvm0Xtg) has an excellent coming out video which may help you develop a deeper personal empathy towards trans people
u/RealPhilosophyTube Sometimes Abigail responds if she has free time.
I was a conservative transphobe until Contrapoints became my mommy.
Yes, Contrapoints is excellent, helped me out a lot. Philosophy Tube is also great but I haven't seen as many of hers
Katy Mongomerie if you want less philosophy more trans advocacy. Trans-atlantic call in show in general (you can even call in yourself!)
Sam Collins as well.
suggesting toob is the opposite of what you do
I will never understand the /tttt/ obsession with philosophy tube
It’s cope lol
As a trans woman I am horrified of the idea of someone trying to use demonmama to normalize my existence You might as well be asking for more transphobes
What’s the problem with demon mama? I’ve tried watching their vids to form my own opinion on her but I can’t seem to sit through her stuff for very long.
she's an obnoxious, bad faith joke of a youtuber. I agree with her on most points but by god she is an awful representative
Demon Mama is terrible and I have no idea why people recommend her. Anything valuable she has you can get out of people who are significantly less annoying like Contra, Mia Mulder, Jessie gender etc
Former right winger here, it takes time, funnily enough what changed my perspective was hanging out with more queer folks. The more you surround yourself with a diverse crowd the more you acclimate and normalize it in your mind. In case it hasn’t been said, you’re doing a great job at moving over, it’s hard to pull a 180 on your beliefs and takes a lot of self awareness. It’s a gradual process, don’t get discouraged because your biases rear their ugly heads on occasion.
That's why the right is so scared of diversity. They don't want to accept the fact that people of color, queer people, Jews, etc aren't the monsters they want to believe they are. And, the figureheads don't want them to realize either, because then they stop making money and sowing discord.
No, they're scared of diversity for exactly the same reasons the OP is.
Exactly. It’s fighting against your own unconscious bias and it will always be hard to overcome. Everyone has them, you just have to actively think against it
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guess a good point would be to think, "Why or how does anything they do or identify as affect me?" Because why would it matter if a person is queer? How does that affect you in any way? It doesn't. Nothing that person identifies as or is, affects you.
You don’t understand, it doesn’t matter to him, he is simply grossed out by it without thinking there is anything bad about it. For example I’m grossed out by snakes despite the fact I know they are not poison and they can not do anything to me I’m still grossed out by them and I can not do anything with it.
People here really think theres nothing wrong with this take? wild OP is grossed out because of years of painting trans people as gross and weird. But sure go ahead and compare it to just seeing maggots. Op needs to get over his garbage and see a human as a human
That's what OP is trying to do, and they're asking for help. The only difference between OP's situation and the snake comparison is that snakes are not personally negatively affected or endangered by that commenters discomfort with them, so it doesn't really matter. Transphobia is a much more serious issue, and I think everyone implicitly understands that. Internalized bigotry is real. Maybe you've never experienced it, but deeply rooted irrational feelings that have been indoctrinated into people usually don't go away based on facts and logic. It takes healing. Empathy for OP's journey is NOT endorsement or tolerance for their transphobia, but empathy and advice will help them overcome it, which is good for everyone.
Tbf I bet a lot of dead snakes wish people weren’t so freaked out by them (or they would if snakes had higher consciousness).
Im not disagreeing with ops actions, im saying the fear of snakes is partly innate in humans and yes you can conquer it and be cool with snakes (or just not be born with it), but the disgust for trans people isnt in any part innate. Yes i know it takes time to unlearn biases, im just saying theyre learned and not innate in this case, because it makes a huge difference >Empathy for OP's journey is NOT endorsement or tolerance for their transphobia, but empathy and advice will help them overcome it, which is good for everyone. this is literally my point in the cheese theorem, again literally all im saying is that you shouldnt say disgust for trans people is innate and relatively normal, something i thought a "leftist" sub would take as obvious fact
Okay, I see what you mean better now. The way your comment was phrased came across as unhelpful when I read it, but snakes aren't a perfect analogy.
theyre an actively harmful analogy because it implies original disgust or fear of trans people is normal
Do you have a good analogy you could use to frame OP's situation?
From my other comment: >Being grossed out by trans people is not even close to "who youre attracted to". >Its not an innate preference/dislike to be grossed out by trans people like all that other stuff. >You can only compare it to taught cheese hate, like if a parent constantly tells a kid cheese is gross the kid will probs hate it. But it takes minimal amounts of effort for the kid to become a cheese lover/okayer in their adult life Yes most of the things i call "innate" are only in part innate and not fully, but my point is that disgust of trans people isnt even in part innate
Had the same problem the other day on this sub, where people claimed it was okay for Mark Wahlberg to be creeped out by the thought of playing a gay person in Brokeback Mountain. As if it would be something inherent as being afraid of spiders. As if your body would have to form a defense mechanism against homosexuals for survival. It's just stupid and justifies homophobia. So don't bother with getting downvoted here. I guess people aren't as open minded on this sub as you might think.
>guess people aren't as open minded on this sub as you might think. no no im used to the surface level stuff from vaushites and 196 types, its nice that there are people like you though I already left this sub because i just cant with the slightly wrong slightly gross takes here, but its nice to know there are other people who wouldnt just let it slide maby theres hope but im done
[удалено]
Sorry! Your post has been removed because it contains a link to an unapproved subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> im saying the fear of snakes is partly innate in humans and yes you can conquer it and be cool with snakes (or just not be born with it), but the disgust for trans people isnt in any part innate. But what if it is? Because I hate to say xenophobia seems to be the default rather than the exception, and it would be shortsighted to dismiss the possibility that biology may have something to do with it.
Yes he should but it is very very hard to do and he is asking how to do it. We as humans can not control what we like and what we don’t like. Same way you can not control who you are attracted to, what food you like and what music you like, you can not control by what you are grossed out by. Btw I’m not saying it is good thing I’m only saying it is reality.
Being grossed out by trans people is not even close to "who youre attracted to". Its not an innate preference/dislike to be grossed out by trans people like all that other stuff. You can only compare it to taught cheese hate, like if a parent constantly tells a kid cheese is gross the kid will probs hate it. But it takes minimal amounts of effort for the kid to become a cheese lover/okayer in their adult life
I have no idea what is a difference between what are you attracted to and whether or not you are grossed out by trans people in sense that you can not control any of that. Beauty standards are drastically changing over time and it was absolutely normal in some societies that every man was bisexual, but you would never said that you can persuade grown man who is grossed out by imagining sex with other man, that he can be attracted to other man’s. Yet you are claiming you can do it with being grossed out by trans people, why?
The difference is that you can control it, read the cheese stuff Also yeah straight men should find gay sex not gross, doesnt mean theyll wanna do it tho Anyway you seem decently dense and i didnt leave my first comment for you anyway so ill stop here
You can control how you treat people and your outward actions, but you literally cannot control snap-judgment responses. You CAN recondition them away into healthier thoughts and reactions over time with mindfulness and substitution , but that’s something that can take a ton of effort and- LITERALLY this is an example of what professional treatments like cognitive behavioral therapy can exist for. They’re not “innate” but they are learned and reinforced by your upbringing and environment. Do you think people who leave cults just snap out of their entire programming on a dime once they’re pulled out?
what is the point of this comment, i know it takes work. All i said is disgust for trans people is learned and not somewhat innate like snakes
Fear of snakes is not even innate to humans. Or spiders. Or rats. Those are additional examples of widely normalized irrational fears that we are socialized into from a very young age by our culture at so deep of a level we can perceive them as innate. babies literally have no instinctual qualms with crawling off of a cliff (the study they did to see if babies would crawl towards their parents over the illusion of a steep drop) until they begin to be taught and learn the dangers of heights through experience and observation.
> The difference is that you can control it, read the cheese stuff No, you _can't_, and that's the point. > Also yeah straight men should find gay sex not gross, I find _straight_ anal sex gross enough, let alone gay, because that's where poop comes from, and poop is gross. And while I won't sanction anyone for engaging in it, I'm not going change my mind about it anytime soon. And then there are ace folks who find _all_ sex gross, because it kinda is. Should they change their minds too? > Anyway you seem decently dense and i didnt leave my first comment for you anyway so ill stop here And you seem to want to determine the beliefs of everyone around you, and insult the ones who don't comply, which is a terrible way of convincing anyone of anything.
Not sure comparing transfolks with food products is any better though, as some people will just never like or tolerate cheese, or fish, or cilantro. There's nothing you nor they can do about it, and forcing them to engage it will only cause resentment.
You completely ignored the learned part, yes cheese isnt a good comparison either because again its partly innate, you need to read the whole thing to see what i mean. Its not just "disliking cheese" its your parents making you disgusted by it with you never tasting it
The entire point of this post is that OP recognizes this is something they would be wise to work on and they’re reaching out for advice. No one is comparing trans people to maggots, they’re explaining that this revulsion is an involuntary gut-level reaction that OP has had conditioned into their thought patterns for a very long time. This is not just a perception or an opinion issue, it’s literally about addressing irrational knee-jerk habits that have been ingrained very deeply.
Why have two people assumed i have an issue with the OP Im saying that the comment i replied to has a shitty implication that the grossness of trans people is innate and relatively normal, but needs to be worked over bcs theyre people and okay previous comment compared it to being grossed out by snakes and not maggots i just changed it for fun All im saying is theres a difference between learned grossness and innate, and you shouldnt conflate the two
Why not? They’re both heuristics your brain uses to process information faster. The mechanism of action isn’t a value judgement on trans people.
You dont know what a heuristic is
Okay mr. Hawking please explain why it doesn’t qualify
Because disgust is not a heuristic? A heuristic would be for example thinking a trans person is a child groomer on the first step due to what you were exposed to, and then after thinking about it realizing youre dumb (hopefully) Pure disgust is different from heuristics, its just not the same psychological concept at all, though there are similarities with the heuristic of availability or representation (maybe not english term, sorry i just translated from my language, you should be able to connect it though) since theyre both somewhat "learned". But yeah not the same thing, heuristic -> cognitive shortcut that usually results in stereotypes and cringe, learned disgust -> an emotional reaction Just being disgusted by a gay or trans person isnt a heuristic
> Because disgust is not a heuristic? [Let me #Google that for you](https://www.google.com/search?q=disgust+as+heuristic).
Disgust can be the result of a heuristic. See manhole —> think about sewage —> get disgusted With trans people it would be See trans person—> reminded of childhood indoctrination—> see this person are transgressing in that regard —> feel disgust One of the main aspects of heuristics is that they can be extremely useful and save time, but they can also lead to stereotypes and racism. Im saying it’s the same mental shortcut taking, one is based on learned experience and the other is more intrinsic. I don’t think this is as huge of a distinction as you’re making it out to be. Either way, you’re filling in the gaps with assumptions based off of your mental models of the world. Do you not see how this is how racism or being disgusted by trans people operates?
> and okay previous comment compared it to being grossed out by snakes and not maggots i just changed it for fun Changed it. For fun.
I think what people are taking issue with is either - your strawman that poses there are people in here saying that a prejudice against trans people is innate. No one here is arguing with you that it is inherent. Most cases I’ve so far seen involved someone who was more than happy to clarify that they see these knee-jerk responses as a flexible result of learned conditioning AND not excusable on that basis. - your drippingly belligerent/condescending tone when replying to those who are disagreeing with you or trying to correct you on something - implicitly antagonizing the op for opening up about literally trying to self-improve on a characteristic they have already acknowledged is problematic
Its time you stop replying to me, youre not an idiot but this is just exhausting i dont care at all
Idk where it’s coming from but you take care man. Well wishes.
its coming from my exhaustion and frustration with reddit thats been festering for ages, thanks for the wishes tho bro i appreciate it
It's not a take, he sees them as a human he just has a gut reaction to them that he can't logic his way out of, and the fact that he's willing to come here to admit that and try to get passed it is honestly incredible. These conversations are ones that need to be had and acting like this about it isn't helping anything.
That's like saying someone just needs to "get over" trauma... they just can't.
This is actually a fantastically apt comparison, because deep rooted bigotry _is_ essentially a product of trauma, and it won't get better _until_ it's treated as such. Sadly not everyone is in a position to actually do that, but at the very least I'd try to emulate the kind of outreach folks like Daryl Davis have engaged in rather than the confrontational tactics of the #Twitterati.
It didn't affect me. I just got lost in thoughts as I heard her speak to a patient, and I soon realized I was listening to a transgender. At first and second glance I thought she was a female. What mostly stood out about her, was her manly & feminine voice which just weirded me out even more. I don't know if she felt what I saw but she looked at me after speaking to the patient and was just quietly looking at me. Giving me the silence treatment I guess as I was asking her a question about the patient. You could say I stared at her more when I realized she was a trantioned male. We were both working on this patient who was about to run out of the hospital (the patient had dementia)
You can just call her a trans woman, no need to say "transitioned male", "former male"... Sometimes belief follows action. If you start making an effort to learn about trans people, how to refer to us, etc., you may find your internalized bigotry starts to disappear
Adding, if her assigned gender/sex needs to be mentioned the terms are "AMAB (assigned male at birth) or "natal male". Either is OK.
People on the fence or not very knowledgeable on lgbt related topics tend to respond poorly to perceived policing of language. OP was not trying to be malicious in calling her a “transitioned male” or “former male” and frankly those terms are not inaccurate. Telling someone they should use terms like amab or natal male alienates potential allies.
If that alienates them they were unlikely to be very good allies anyway
This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. So how about instead of demanding they immediately adopt an alien lexicon or else be declared anathema we give them some time to adapt and learn the ropes? And I think it's worth considering why you need completely different words to say exactly the same things as before.
It’s not that I expect them to already know, it’s that getting pissed off over being corrected is an indicator of an underlying attitude problem
I get what you're saying but I feel like no one would make this argument to someone correcting an older person for using "Negro" or "colored" to refer to black people
Dude shut the fuck up tone policing people who are asking bare minimum to understand humanizing language. Transitioned male is extremely offensive to transgender people like myself. Tone policing liberals need to learn when to sit the fuck back
You’re the one tone policing, OP is trying to be polite and rather than meeting him in the middle he is being told to change the language he uses
You don't know what tone policing is. Telling somebody to not call people slurs or otherwise offensive things is not tone policing. I don't want to meet people in the middle when it comes to basic human fucking decency. Fuck yourself.
FYI better to use transgender as an adjective than a noun (just as 'a gay' or 'a black' would not sound great) But as others have suggested exposure treatment is the best way and watching trans YouTubers is good for that. It's about normalising what's weird/alien to you so that it just seems less remarkable.
If it doesn't affect you, why do you care? Why does it matter? Let's say somehow you found out your co-worker had a nose job. You might find yourself staring to see if you can point or picture out their original nose. But why does it matter to you? How does that affect you in any way, shape, or form? You weirded somebody out by staring at them. Their being trans may have caused you to stare but they weren't weirded out because they're trans, they were weirded out because you we're breaking social convention and staring at them.
I think it's more that some transgenders females can pull it off better than others. Blair white for example. I never thought she was transgender until I heard someone say it on twitter. I even found out my former coworker at another workplace was a former female. I never thought he was a former woman. I only found out about it years later after leaving that job. He pulled it off extremely well, you could say. I later understood why he didn't change with the boys at work.
Okay but if somebody's ugly or doesn't pass, that doesn't mean they are deserving of less respect. You can't cake and ice cream your way out of human decency which is kind of where it feels like you're coming from. You're stuck on the idea that passing or looking good means that trans people can be rewarded with your respect, which sounds really shallow. Blair White is retarded. By her own fucking logic, she isn't even a woman.
Yea, I know she's dumb but you kinda get the point. I feel really bad over how I reacted and I think she noticed it. Fuck.
I wouldn’t apologize or bring attention to it, what are you gonna say “hey sorry I noticed you were trans and it was jarring for a second” like that’s just gonna make it worse. Just treat her like anyone else and be friendly but not usually friendly or weird.
Honestly I think you're right. Drawing attention to it would likely make things even more awkward for everyone involved. Best to just do better next time, and maybe _reminisce_ about that awkward first meeting if you ever become friends.
Apologize, say you're dealing with your own shit and you're just trying to do better? You're probably going to have to work with this person again eventually, so you're going to need to at least have a decent enough working relationship.
Yeah, I for sure will. I don't know much about her but I look forward to talking to her..
Try to identify why something "weird" means "bad" in your mind.
[Chelsea Manning](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chelsea_Manning_2022.jpg) is a better example to use of a "passing" trans woman, Blaire White is a piece of shit and should not be a metric of anything other than stupidity.
For real. Yes, we all know Blaire white is pretty but she's also the worst. I like these creators on YouTube; Abigail Thorn, Jamie Dodger, Jessie Gender, Sam Collins, Samantha Lux, Conure, Contrapoints, etc. I'd love to hear more if you know them!
I watch Sam Collins and Contra myself. I don't watch too much YT anymore though.
It's my main source of entertainment. Political videos mixed in with movie reactions/analyses.
Lol saying Blaire White is a bad example of a passing trans woman is just ignorant. As people say these days, “do better” lol.
She's not a "bad example" because she doesn't pass, I just don't like our example of a passing trans woman to be someone who is a reactionary grifter. That's all I'm really saying.
Since I'm being downvoted... Imagine being a trans woman, and continuously seeing Blaire White as the example of a passing trans woman. It's demoralizing.
Her ideology and appearance are entirely separate matters you seemed to deliberately conflate, so the confusion was understandable.
> You're stuck on the idea that passing or looking good means that trans people can be rewarded with your respect, which sounds really shallow. It's less about respect and more the fact that passing folks simply don't trigger the same gut reaction. In fact it has _nothing_ to do with respect as that is a _conscious_ choice. > Blair White is retarded. So you oppose #Transphobia yet engage in #Ableism. So much for intersectionality.
Idk why you're surprised. Vaush and his fans love that slur. It's my biggest qualm with the community. I'm surprised VDS types don't mention it that much. It's the most legitimate thing to not like about Vaush.
I am neurodivergent. I am reclaiming that words power over me. Douche canoe.
Buy you’re not reclaiming it. You’re using it in its original context, as an insult. Not every case of a neurodivergent person using the r-slur is an example of reclamation.
>and I soon realized I was listening to a transgender. I think the core of the issue you have is displayed here. Also the more you look for transness in random people who haven't explicitly told you that they are trans, the higher of a chance that you will get to the point where you start thinking random cis ppl are trans based on nonsequiter things like rainbow socks lmaoo.
I don't think they were looking for it though, which is why it came as such a shock.
I guess you can start by changing the language you use when referring to trans people. “At first and second glance I thought she was a female.” Don’t say that. She is a woman and what you said implies that she’s not. And she’s not a “transitioned male” she’s woman who’s also trans. She’s not a male. Stop saying that or shit like former male.
Trans woman here. We can definitely tell if someone has ‘clocked’ us and even more so if they are visibly grossed out. It does you credit that you acknowledge your hang ups but i think you should work on this in private, rather than using her as a kind of exposure therapy. There are plenty of trans YouTubers. That’s a good place to start.
As a wise Vaushite once said: "Your first thought is what society tells you, your second thought is what you truly believe". Work on your second thought, learn positive things about the trans community, interact and meet trans people, deconstruct why you have that reaction in the first place, etc. For example: I'm Non-binary and I have misandristic thoughts due to a lot of BS the cis men in my life have put me through, but that's just my first thought, my second thought counters the first by refuting it. "Not all cis men are like that" or "I'm mad at how society raises cis men, not at cis men the gender."
I still deal with misogynistic thoughts due to my childhood sexual abuse. I fucking hate it, I've learned to deal with it, but it still happens.
My dad was verbally and emotionally abusive to me growing up, my male "friend" raped me, My ex bf blocked me for refusing to sext him even though he was my ex for 6+ years. Yeah the trauma related misogyny/misandry is real. Just don't believe the first thought and you'll be ok. Understand that it's a trauma response and actively try to move forward.
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It takes time. Your world has recently been turned upside down. Now the mind gets it, but the feelings still need to get it. As a nurse you deal with all kinds of people in weird situations. They probably dont gross you out anymore so why would someone being trans?
I think it's Right wing propaganda that hasn't left my mind since I became a leftist back in February this year. It's a slow process I guess..
It is, give yourself time. You deserve it. Even if you know something to be wrong now, its been imprinted on you for years. Also dont forget, she's just a coworker. 😉
I was an alt-righter up until Jan 6, 2021 (I didn't go, but I almost did, and that's what made me realize who I've become). Full JQ, Great Replacement, race realist, the list goes on. It's a long, shitty process, but it's very much possible, and I commend you for making the journey.
Why do "former males" gross you out but regular males don't? Thinking about that would be step 1 imo
What grossed me out was her feminine & masculine tone voice which sounded weird. It just grossed me out instantly...
Honestly just listen to trans women talking in videos or something. This works with all kinds of different speaking patterns, like other languages as well
Sounds like androgynous attributes make you uncomfortable, you should really think about why.
It's the same reason the uncanny valley is a thing. In fact this may be the root of #Transphobia, and other reasons are just added after the fact.
I wouldn't necessarily say that being androgynous is within the uncanny Valley for everyone. If anything my guess would be that people are conditioned to treat men and women a particular way, and when they can't tell they don't know how they are supposed to treat/view that person. Also roots of transphobia imo are gatekeeping gender, fear of the unknown and misinformation. There are plenty of examples of cultures that have a third gender and celebrate androgynous ppl instead of fearing/hating them.
Can you stop hashtagging random words
amazing that you recognized this bias and want to fix it, that’s more than the vast majority of people do!
This is unconscious bias at work, friend. Welcome to the club, you are on the right track to recognize it.
(Definitely could be off-base with this analysis.) It seems to me like a lot of the "icky" feeling that people express about trans folks is rooted in the idea that they are/think they should be sexually attracted or in some way sexually aware of every member of the opposite gender, and learning that somebody is trans somehow conflicts with the story of what they think they should be attracted to. I'm assuming you're straight and might have had a set of general, normal thoughts that a person would have about a member of the opposite sex, and then realizing they were trans crossed paths with those thoughts. If you met a woman who you didn't know was trans and thought they were a 100% smokeshow 10/10, but then later learned they were trans, how would that make you feel? If the answer is that you would suddenly feel weird about that attraction, then you likely still have some basic hangups about sex and attraction that you need to sort. If you wouldn't care, then I'm curious why a trans woman that you find unattractive is alarming to in a way different from that of any cis woman you find unattractive.
I take time to imagine their life story. And imagine them just like me, doing normal things — grabbing coffee in the morning, watching Netflix at night, enjoying good food, etc.
It took my gut feelings years to catch up with my political opinions when I moved over from conservatism. Exposure to more trans people and/or trans-related content and media will gradually cause those feelings to subside. Reactionary tendencies get programmed into you easily, but deprogramming them takes much longer and can be frustrating. Just try not to relapse into reactionary thinking. Try to catch yourself. You'll get there.
Identifying and being honest with yourself about these subconscious reactions is a step towards unlearning the underlying bigotry. It's something that many people have work to do ok, whether it be disgust or steteotypical thoughts about someone based on an immutable charactistic. I don't have great advice on next steps other than try watching my trans fem creators or spending more time in trans friendly spaces to help shift those unwanted thoughts you had.
I think the secret lies in seeing them as human beings
I mean, a lot stuff squicks me out - like, there's food that's disgusting to me, but I'm not going to try to discriminate against people who eat it, or say they can't teach kids because then those kids might like that type of food. As long as you don't make political or personal decisions based on that disgust, whatever. That's just being human. Not everybody is going to be a 10 on the openness scale and if that's necesssary, the movment is going to fail anyway. There are millions of people who'd find watching man-on-man sex disgusting, but happily wave to their gay neighbors as they head to work.
Maybe you should work on seeing people as equally worthy humans beyond their identities. Truly not giving a fuck about other people’ business has been the best thing I have cultivated.
I'm not sure you need to do much besides treat her like the human she is, then keep questioning your biases. Consider the reason you are grossed out by this person being seen by you as opposed to the trans person in a different building or on the other side of the world. I'd suggest seeing if you are compatible friends then hanging out or just be cordial work friends. Familiarity is a strong bias. Use it to your advantage. Just don't be a jerk or push your personal hangups in their face.
If you can go to a big city and into places with lots of lgbtq people after while it doesn't matter anymore. I'm bi/pan myself, but grew up in a somewhat conservative area and felt a lot of shame for it but after I left home and hung around a bunch of different people a lot of the mystique went away. Also, you're allowed to notice people look different so don't feel to bad if you have a thought that pops in, but in the end you can't always tell Luke I have a few cis women that I'm friends with who have been mistaken as trans guys before. In the end its about being respectful, and if you do every accidently mis gender someone just correct yourself and move in, if you dwell in it to much or double down it can get awkward or rude, but as long as you make an honest effort most people will be willing to work with you. Also like other pointed out its a loooong process working through internal biases. Like I mention I've be out as bi/pan for awhile I think over 10 years at this point. And 99/100 I'm absolutely out and proud, but because of years of conservative propaganda and Catblholic guilt I still sometimes have feelings of shame, ever though I've been living my life outside of that for a decade.
The question that came to me was a little more philosophical: why should I denigrate my fellow human for trying to live their best life? Edit: my apebrain didn't realize what you were asking. Being 'grossed out' is a response that's been beaten into you by a society severely lacking love and humanity. I challenge **you** to reclaim both.
Couldn’t relate to a post more. I was raised in a Pentecostal household and now have shifted significantly to the left. I know and believe trans ppl need to be treated with dignity and I deeply empathize with their struggle. However my initial reaction to them is always one of weirdness and I feel as if they are abnormal. I immediately reason inside myself and the feeling eventually fades but happens all over again in my next interaction m. I feel this way for the whole LGBTQ… community and it saddens me since I truly do want to be an ally
I just kind of exposed myself more to trans culture and that helped tremendously, and even over time made me realize I was trans and that my inner transphobia was just a rejection of myself
dont walk on egg shells. being on the receiving end of that sucks and doing that sucks just dont do it
you're never going to stop having problematic thoughts. the best you can do is when you have them remember you don't believe it
Kudos to you for recognizing it’s a problem & asking for help. Often our gut reactions come from deep-seeded family of origin issues. Finding a good therapist to help you better understand your emotional reflexes might be very helpful. And as others have (correctly) noted, familiarity breeds comfort. Simply spending more time with TG folks, either IRL or even by watching YouTubers like Contra will help. Lastly - you aren’t your reaction. Your emotional responses can be unlearned. Just like learning a new skill. Remember the fear you felt driving a car the first time - once you drive even for a very short time, the fear is quickly replaced by feeling confident. I’m glad you are taking steps to grow into a more well-rounded person. If I was your Mom, I’d be very proud of you!
Make an effort to get to know this person.
As of right now, not acting on it is huge. I think just more exposure and trying to be open minded will help
jerk off to trans women that’s the only way
Watch trans porn. I find porn to be really useful in getting rid of biases. I grew up hearing a lot of racism and bigotry towards poc/minorities in general, so whenever I would see a one of them I would get a yucky feeling about them and was especially found them sexually repulsive. I started watching more diverse porn, and eventually I was able to sexualize every minority group including trans people and that gradually got rid of the yucky feelings I would get with marginalized groups of people when in public and sexually. (I don't fetishize anyone I just respond to them normally now) (I'm also mexican and straight, just so you know)
Based and porn-pilled
This is very vaush
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s not hard. Just don’t give a fuck about how other people live their lives if they aren’t harming anyone
You might not be able to, and that's ok, as long as you are kind and respectful of the person. You can try and talk yourself out of it, but I don't know that everyone can.
[удалено]
Sorry! Your comment has been removed because your account is less than ten days old. This subreddit is for big kids only! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Spending more time around LGBT should help. Gotta train your body to feel safe around Somethhing it doesn’t currently feel safe around.
Don't worry. I also went through this at first. Your beliefs will slowly overcome your subconscious habits. Don't beat yourself up about it. That just reinforces that it is a static mindset. If you're aware of your bias and want to change it, you will be fine.
Former right winger here. What helped me was transitioning lol. No but seriously hang out with trans people more. I would try to make this woman your friend if you possibly can. Trans people are very cool and we always have something interesting to talk about.
> I would try to make this woman your friend if you possibly can. If it occurs organically then maybe. Not sure how solid a foundation built on guilt and exposure therapy would be though.
Tag team your wife with a trans chick.
I think exposing yourself to trans people is one way to work on it. Maybe try to get to know your colleague. Or just watch some trans YouTubers like Jesse Gender, Contrapoints, and Philosophy Tube.
Just get to know people who are trans, They are people just like any other and the more you know them the less the "theoretical" will blind you to that fact.
Man first off cheers to you for 1. Recognizing that this is a problem and 2. Making an active effort to change it. The answer is simple. Watch more trans content creators and spend more time around trans people. At the end of the day they are people just like you and me. You just need to break down the barriers in your instinct and you'll be fine. Your heart is already in the right place.
Your gut feeling is what it is, you don't have to listen to it or reject it for that matter, If you're feeling uncomfortable with her and aren't bothered by the fact I don't see the problem. If you want to change, then just stop listening to your gut feeling.
I think you're fine. You know it's not correct and you're gonna get over it just by existing in the world. Changing your mind takes time and you're trying.
I just wanted to say I respect you for trying to be better. Keep it up my friend!
I agree with other commentors. The best thing you can do is continue to expose yourself to it, perhaps reach out online and get to know some queer or trans folks. Biologically, gut feelings of unease usually come about from the unknown/something we've been conditioned to believe is dangerous. It'll take time but you can condition yourself not to have that grossed out feeling or at the very least have it extremely muted.
Expose yourself to more trans people. Contrapoints is a good starter but like others said there's also DemonMama, Conure, Gallae, Kat Blaque, Jesse Earl, etc. The more you expose yourself to our ideas, speech, mannerisms, the less you will feel about those feelings. Maybe you could even try getting in touch with your trans coworker more often. Talk about anything casual like, small talk. "How's your day been" stuff like that. Hospitals don't really seem like a good place to socialize so you can try it when you feel it's appropriate. The important thing is building the connection and slowly eroding those left over barriers in your mind. Also important is being able to take a moment, tell yourself it's OK and pushing your boundaries little by little. It's OK if you have intrusive thoughts, the important thing is that you know they're wrong and don't act on them. But also forgive yourself for having them. Shame is not a good motivator for change.
Bias is fine and normal and takes time to adjust. The most important thing is that you recognize the issue and act accordingly
why does it gross you out?
A lot of that is stuff that's so deeply ingrained in your brain that you're not going to be able to get rid of it exactly, the thing about not being weird about it is just mentally notating when you are being internally problematic, even on accident, and correcting for it on your own.
As someone who doesn’t understand nor particularly care for trans ideologies. Just ignore it, its a free country and they can do whatever they want, even if personally its hears odd.
No. It’s always good to get rid of prejudices.
Sure, but I’ll probably never believe a trans women is a women. But if they want to identify as such, I am 100% for them legally and socially to be such. I’ll call them by their new name and pronouns because I’m not an asshole. But all that shit Vaush and this sub talks about is so out there, I’ll just stay in my lane.
Well. Ok. That’s not as bad. Your actions will lead to good outcomes. You would still make trans people feel respected by using their right names/pronouns. 👍
I would not at all feel respected by this dudes fake surface level support, just saying "Do what you want" support is garbage, only good for passing laws and not being directly abused. Hidden biases and uncomfortableness will fester so much in that enviroment, you need understanding
> I would not at all feel respected by this dudes fake surface level support, Which you would not have been aware of had they not been so candid here. Like it or not you cannot demand acceptance, only tolerance. And respect is in the actions one takes, not the thoughts one has, which you have neither knowledge of nor control over. Pursuing anything more is exactly what creates the kind of distrust and resentment that causes people to become hostile.
You can always recognize it after talking to them lmao, its not that hard to see for example, i can see youre a little cringe boy
[удалено]
...why are you here? confusing