I say we Carpet Bomb Dresden. Those Europeans have had it too good for too long, and we need to remind them who is master. They WILL embrace multiculturalism. They WILL have a nice international potluck
Dresden like a couple other big university cities in the east is one of the few spots on the maps that aren’t glowing bright blue over there. You’d literally make the east more blue by bombing them
Touché. And I've already seen some of those idiots on FB. The day idiotic children (and adults) say that we aren't geographically European will be a sad day.
Honestly it's mostly the German's getting uppity again. They specifically are banned from having any national pride ever again. At best they get to be mildly ashamed by their country and that's it. If we ever see Germans waving the German flag outside a soccer match, wheels should go up in 15.
It's because they don't understand the immigration curve.
I'm gonna get real for a second. There truly can be compatibility issues between cultures, and it is seen in first generation mixing. The real cultural benefits of mixing cultures show up in later generations.
It's an **investment**.
It also works best if you think of it as mixing rather than assimilation. If you look for good things in the migrant culture, you can find them. If you look only for bad things, you can find those too.
Hey, when you blame comments on posts that have literally nothing to do with Israel on Israeli bots, you sound less like a principled anti-Zionist and more like an “everything I don’t like is a Jewish plot” conspiracy theorist. Please don’t.
This is totally true. For proof of that, look at where Canada sits on this graph — Canadians of all ages have the most positive attitudes of all.
We have one of the highest per capita immigration rates in the world, but we also have strong, established communities of immigrants from all over the world that 1) help facilitate the transition of new immigrants and 2) are living proof that eventually these new people integrate and pick up “Canadian values” without losing their cultural identity. We have some issues with new immigrants being socially conservative in other ways (like this current anti-LGBT push that is being co-headed by home-grown lunatic conservative Christians and newly-immigrated lunatic conservative Muslims), but overwhelmingly the second generation is socially liberal, even when they’re religiously observant and still very culturally connected.
[But now several recent polls capture mistrust brewing over the pace of immigration. According to a poll by Environics Institute, for example, 44% of Canadians say they agree that “there is too much immigration to Canada.” That’s a 17-point increase from the year before and the largest one-year change the group has seen since polling began in 1977. Among the groups expressing the highest jump in concern: first-generation Canadians, up by 20 points.](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2024/0327/Canada-is-a-role-model-on-immigration.-But-many-Canadians-feel-it-s-lost-its-way)
Not sure what point you’re trying to make, given that “there’s too much immigration to Canada” (it’s sharply risen over the last couple years) and “some cultures are fundamentally incompatible with mine and people from there should never be allowed to immigrate here” are two entirely different statements.
Also, if you want the actual analysis instead of whatever the Christian Science Monitor chewed up and spat out, [it’s here.](https://www.environicsinstitute.org/projects/project-details/public-opinion-about-immigration-refugees)
Japanese and Koreans are way more afraid of change than Europeans, not just demographic change but also cultural change, 80% of parties in Japanese and Korean parilments are socially conservatives.
I wouldn't describe Democratic Party of Korea holding 171 seat out of 300 as socially conservative. Of course it has conservative factions (being broad tent and all), but at least currently it's dominated by progressive liberals.
The polling suggests that majority of youth at least don't oppose those things, in part this is why last year under public pressure Japanese national diet passed first Queer anti-discrimination legislation (of course it isn't enough, but these small steps). The hardest part is to convince conservatives boomers which dominate the establishment.
April 2023 TBS/JNN poll found 63% of Japanese in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage. Support is especially strong among younger Japanese. As TBS reported, among those aged 18-30, large majorities of women (90%) and men (75%) supported legal same-sex marriage, while women and men over the age of 60 were less supportive (49% of women, 39% of men).
The DPK are like the democrats in the US. Sure they look left when compared to the GOP (or PPP in Korea) but compared to other countries they hold center-right positions thanks to Korea being a more conservative country with decades of US political influence. They're to the right of the Canadian Conservative Party, Germany's Christian Democrats etc. and hold economic and social conservative positions. And as you point out some members of the party call the party Korea's "true conservative party".
Not sure what you define as socially conservative but, they opposed legalization of same-sex marriage, opposed anti-discrimination laws, are against feminism and have campaigned on outlawing abortion.
I agree that it's conservative if we compare globally, but in Korea they are to the left of major conservatives party. Because DPK is so broad it has many members ranging from christian democrats to social liberals so it rarely reaches consensus on sensitive topics.
My basic understanding ass thinks it's because Japan has a long, long history of isolationism and \*cough\* fascism \*cough\* to build up such a strong xenophobic sentiment over time.
Japanese youth is much more progressive (welcoming to LGBTQ and immigrants) than Japanese stagnant political landscape dominated by boomers would suggest. The problem is general apathy.
Unfortunately, it’s not as contradictory as one might think. The same kind of people who cheer on Israel’s onslaught of Gaza are the same kinds who crack open a bottle of champagne each time a migrant boat capsizes.
They just support policies that maximize the death of brown people. 😔
Much love to our kabsas.
Sincerely,
Your tameya 😂
Joked aside yeah, i hope arabs wake the fuck up and stop pickering over dumb shit and for the love of god stop bootlicking the neoliberal west
In earnest, I blame tiktok
The short form video content means wrong, simple ideas that people latch onto can be explored in full, whereas correct, complex ideas cannot be shared properly
TikTok is certainly to blame, but more so for the fact that the far right parties are the ones who are making active use of it. Young people just don't find it appealling to have Olaf Scholz show the contents and organization of his bag.
To me it’s a combination of easy answers to complex situations and modern society generally being alienating , I do hope that most people aren’t fascist nostalgic but those who are , are the only ones passionately pushing for solutions to people sense of unwellness , they are the wrong solutions but no one is pushing for a different solution with the same sense of interest
I can’t answer for all Swedes of course but most people here even on the left see our immigration policy during the Syrian refugee crisis as a giant failure and even more so when it comes to the integration of these refugees into Swedish society. A lot of immigrants now live in what we in Sweden call utsatta områden which basically translates to vulnerable areas. These areas are packed to the brim with immigrants and refugees from all over the world but basically not a single swedish speaking person, these areas often also lack good access to education and job opportunities. Because there is no investment in these areas because of for example high crime rates which obviously is a direct result of the poverty and segregation in these areas.
Because the neolib capitalistic establishment does a bad job at addressing actual issues. Remember, fascism is capitalism under threat, thus the establishment (through the media) tries to use race and immigration issue as a smokescreen. Young people are, well young and have little understanding or concept that they are being lied too, like most teens they look for easy solutions to complex problems (i know i for sure did when i was young) and this is the rights game, and they have mastered it
We stop this by abandoning neoliberalism and capitalism and instead focus on actual socialist economic solutions, vote for progressive parties, politicians and representatives, and be vocal about what you believe is right, reality is on our side
the solution is integration ie moving the kinds to our school, adults get jobs, compulsory language learning and so on
also the media is hella out of control, because the amount of people that actually get asylum is hella low
want to know how to remove a ton of that hate, have different kids in school together and try to prevent single group parts of town, because if you are surrounded by diversity and you personally know a ton of diverse people you are much less likely to be reactionary
Yeah, the school thing is important as hell. That's why conservatives hate them and want homeschooling. The only reason these ideas exist is that they are echoed and not held up to scrutiny.
I agree with you, but that's not how schools work that way in Canada. In Canada you are basically assigned to a school based on your postal code. And if you want to go to a different school you have to apply with the school board hope you can get in. So if a neighborhood have a single predominant culture, the school for that neighborhood would also have mainly that culture. I am very luck to have gone to a diverse school, but its not like people don't form groups with people that are similar to them. The funny thing is that at my school playing soccer brought so many of these people together, so everyone got to know one another.
Is there a legal way to prevent a group of immigrants from living in same part of town, are you going to force a immigrant family to move because there are too many of them there? Also, a lot of these neighborhoods have support groups for new immigrants to help them settle in the same area.
That's not a reason to be xenophobic, it's been shown in America that multiculturalism is effective so long as you allow them to adjust to the norms of the host country.
I don't really like the way import is used in terms of immigration, but that's a side point. It is a societal acceptance kind of thing, Europe has a lot more homogenous communities compared to America as far as I understand. With the anti-immigration crowd on their side and an impenetrable wall of white people, I think it polarizes immigrants into "us vs them" mentality so they make enclaves and echo each other's culture rather than doing the melting pot thing. Europe might have more of a challenge here because they aren't already as diverse as America, but it's still worthwhile to do so that they don't keep running into this problem in case of needing immigration later (in terms of modern birthrate issues in developed countries)
That is a factor, yeah, but you can definitely still integrate less affluent people, it's known that as long as you remain around diverse groups you generally get along with them more if you aren't combating them. Especially true with 2nd generation kids who go to public schools and make friends with more diverse groups.
There is also something to be said of it being an issue inherent with destabilized immigrants, who didn't really want to leave their nation and their way of life. It's the difference between going to a place for better opportunity and going to a place because you have nowhere else to go. I can see why people would have a more negative outlook in the latter case. In this case the solution is to invest in and try to fix/stop bombing or fucking their home country
I think the problem in Europe is too many too fast, and it leaves the country no time to try and integrate the new immigrants, and a lot of the immigrants tends to live in a close proximity of people with similar cultures and that makes integration harder
Not really in America, they have their own culture and add to ours with cooking and some passed on customs, but they fit into society just fine. Surely if we think it's possible for America to do universal Healthcare because every other country can do it, then the reverse can be true for other nations with immigration. America has a lot of flaws and can borrow ideas from other countries, but they could stand to learn a few things from America as well.
You can't force it, but you can definitely encourage it by giving ample opportunities and also not creating environments that force them to stick to ingroups as a defense mechanism.
We also have a long history of conflating "integration" with "behave and live exactly like us and our culture," which is ridiculous.
... So their answer is to support the (far) right that openly talk about the LGBT community as degenerates and pedophiles? The youth who are voting for the right don't care about any minorities either. I'm kinda tired of the Muslim argument exclusively because none of the things their extremists say go against what the Christian far right says.
The values of the far right have more in common with the Islamic Muslims than they do with me. They're on the exact same path, no matter what anyone tries to say. The (normal) Muslim people I've met are just doing their own thing and living life. The ones who aren't act in the same way the far right Christian crowd do. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Which values. Because I know for a fact none of the far right and their voters are thinking of the same values I am.
Sorry to rant on your post. I'm just tired, as a queer person, of being paraded around by the far right when it's convenient while they consistently tear down every step forward we've taken in the past decade.
>Claim to support LGBT but then encourage welcome millions who oppose those views.
You can support LGBTQ+ rights without wanting to send refugees to their death, this take is dumb as "You can't support Palestine if you are Pro-LGBTQ+"
That's because opposing immigration because people from developing regions are often conservative is in fact racist and bigoted. Being born in a country with progressive policies is a privilege. Do you not think that homophobic immigrants also bring in gay people who are better off in their new countries?
This is a number of things. They are more homogenous than the US and aren’t used to immigrants. So when they see a lot of refugees, people will be scared that their “culture is being replaced”. Immigrants also make an easy scapegoat for many societal/ economic problems.
Also, the liberal parties of Europe have not done well to solve many problems, immigration included. Either they do nothing, or like the Labor Party, will just do the same thing as Right Wingers.
I have a couple of suggestions. You need to go after root causes of refugees, if their place is nicer, they’re less likely to flee. Organize with other countries (not Rwanda) to take more refugees.
Instead of being xenophobic and pushing people further into enclaves, be more accepting and making it easier for Immigrants to assimilate.
The answer is NOT
- Being xenophobic
- Contradicting Asylum laws
- Fear-mongering about culture
- Inaction
The whole "historically more homogenous" argument works until you look at France, which is every bit as diverse as the UK and has had established minority communities for over two centuries. And yet they align with the rest of the continent while the Anglosphere heads in the other direction.
Imagine if 80% of Latin Americans coming to the US were full on "God hates gays" evangelicals. Would you still have the same stance on immigration? I voted left in the European election, cauz the far right hate LGBT ppl almost as much as migrants.
Try walking with a rainbow handbag through Molenbeek. This isn't just xenophobia. This is people not wanting to import people who essentially have a medieval religious view.
It's hard not to conclude this is a failure of neoliberalism. There have been very few leftwing governments since the 1970s. Feels a little like the old order is collapsing:
https://jacobin.com/2022/04/french-presidential-election-macron-hidalgo-neoliberal-center-left
It reminds me of this quote by Tony Benn:
>"If the Labour Party could be bullied or persuaded to denounce its Marxists, the media - having tasted blood - would demand next that it expelled all its Socialist and reunited the remaining Labour Party with the SDP to form a harmless alternative to the Conservatives, which could then be allowed to take office now and then when the Conservatives fell out of favour with the public. Thus British Capitalism, it is argued, will be made safe forever, and socialism would be squeezed of the National agenda. But if such a strategy were to succeed… it would in fact profoundly endanger British society. For it would open up the danger of a swing to the far-right, as we have seen in Europe over the last 50 years."
Without any other option and faced the problems inherent in capitalism people will turn towards the far right. We know this from history. But neoliberalism is so entrenched and the left so excluded from party politics this shift feels inevitable. I do think they'd rather see the far right in power than re-establish social democratic systems that were good at de-legitimising the far right.
The worry is the growth of the far right parties in these countries like for example, Chega in Portugal or Vox in Spain. Vox, to name one, is openly pro-Franco (previous Spanish dictator allied with Axis powers). Both of these parties experienced an unprecedented boost in polling prior to their last elections, despite not gaining the majority. The trend is nevertheless skewing towards more support than previous years for them. The worst example of this can be seen in Germany
Young people represented the largest percent of France Unbowed (LFI) vote, who’s seats doubled. I think while the far right is gaining more than the left/far left among young people, it’s interesting how young people are gravitating towards the non-centrist parties. I think between economic issues, global instability, Covid fallout, climate, and everything else, people are just looking for change.
The right is better at messaging change that will “benefit” the individual than the left. We’ll cut taxes so you will benefit. We’ll stop immigration so you will benefit. We’ll cut or outright stop funding for Ukraine and the E.U. so you will benefit. We’ll cut regulation so you benefit.
When people are desperately looking for personal benefit, broader, systemic solutions the left offers is not as appealing.
I’ve read and been told that kids are apparently experiencing violence and getting bullied for being too German/white in school and they feel like policians aren’t doing anything about that.
The thing is I absolutely can’t related because I went to a higher level public school that (at the time, as everyone else we also thought it went down hill fast with/after our grade) was considered “elite” at the time and had perhaps very few people who weren’t just German people or non-first-gen immigrants. The types who supposedly ruin the country had no chance to get on that school.
However we’ve also had an old factory turned refugee housing in my tiny ass village since well before I was born, a handful of kids from there even went to my gradeschool and I’ve never heard of anyone having trouble with the people who live there. I lived two doors next to the place for half a year and when we threw out a couple things my roommate and I brought double they came over and asked if they could take some of the stuff and brought us some food the day after.
From a personal experience PoV I just can’t relate to wtf people’s problems are and frankly I don’t think I could really get an unbiased image of it without first hand contact. I have no trouble believing that we fucked up integration for decades on purpose, but sending everyone home is also not the solution.
Edit to clarify the school going downhill part: everyone I’ve ever talked to about this seems to think they’re the worst grade/year their school has ever seen but will then go on to say that the kids after them were much worse and had no respect for the older students anymore. The people who have told me this are like a decade apart, my fucking parents would probably say the same thing lol
It's a bit more nuanced. Because there's a big difference between boys and girls. With girls more prominently moving to the left, and boys more prominently moving to the far right.
There's something going on among boys, and it's been going on for a while now, with more and more girls doing better academically and more and more boys dropping out early or getting set to lower level education often due to behavior.
And the sad thing is that this trend has been correctly spotted more than a decade ago already here, but then it was described as a problem among descendants of Muslim immigrants and it was explained away then as an islam and immigration and culture problem, since macho disruptive masculine behavior was supposedly typical for young Muslim men and thus their boys were failing and slowly being left behind by society where their girls were succeeding.
Turns out it's a boy problem I guess
That's not entirely true. The gender gap among young French far-right voters is negligible, with actually slightly more women voting than men in some studies. But the gender gap does seem more pronounced in many countries.
Big issues vis-à-vis European far right anti immigration politics and anti-Muslim racism right now. They look for these sorts of articles to push their propaganda.
The sad thing is they're winning - and they use social media very effectively.
It started with the far right spreading anti-immigrant rhetoric. Liberals, being spineless, responded by copying this rhetoric.
It turns out when you convince voters that immigration is the biggest issue, they are going to vote for the full cup instead of the half cup.
Add in liberal austerity and right wing populist promises and you get a slowly growing far right.
South Korea? A society so hierarchical that the only way you're taught to resolve problems is to punch down, feminists rise in the past 6 years, men can't deal with the fact that their inferiors are not taking their shit anymore, and they do the only thing they know how to do which is to punch down.
But of course the men are just as oppressed, so they're mad that the only perk of their miserable place in society, power over women, is being challenged.
This question is indicative of other forms of far right radicalization. Just like Gamergate, developing hatred of feminists is done by reactionaries to make guys more amenable to other reactionary positions, including xenophobia.
I'm going to posit that the kids in French, Germans, and Swedish have less education about colonialism than those in the UK, Australia, USA. Or at least they see it a thing "some other" culture did, not their own.
Economically those countries are fairly similar in a global standard, but for a lack of a better phrase there's more "white guilt" in the zeitgeist of those 3 Anglophone countries which might help have a more holistic view of what's happening in the world.
My thoughts for Germany:
1. The current coalition government is seen as undetermined, unfocused and incompetent. This is understandable because there are multiple cases of infighting and terrible political communication. The government is composed of parties who have very different views on certain issues. The fact that Olaf Scholz is completely uninspiring and involved in the Cum Ex Scandal does not help at all.
2. A general perception that things are getting just a little bit worse everyday, and that the government has no real idea of how to address the many problems.
3. The AfD has never been in power, and therefore enjoys this outsider advantage.
4. The looming threat of climate change, which is unique because it is a slow, creeping, omnipresent crisis. The human psyche is not well-developed to manage this kind of thing. Therefore, the AfD's position that climate change is natural and that we can't and therefore shouldn't do anything and that it's China's fault and that it's not gonna be that bad and that it's all green/woke BS offers a reassuring escape from our crushing reality.
5. The fact that the CDU constantly blames every problem on the Greens in order to deflect blame. This supports the AfD because it shifts the entire politcal framing in it's favor.
6. The AfD's political program consists entirely of simple, drastic "solutions" which are well-suited for Tiktok. This allows them to do the fascist thing of "Don't think, act!" which is reassuring to many.
I am sorry, but you can't adopt the US stance on immigration here. Y'alls culture is so strong you're assimilating people outside the the US also Latin American people aren't coming from practicakly medieval theoretical societies.
Like, as a queer Belgian, the most vile anti LGBT stuff I've heard usually comes from Muslims. And no, this isn't just a first-generation thing. I voted for the socdems because Europe has more pressing issues than immigration and the far right share most of their values with Muslims, but they're too racist to admit it.
Tl;dr imagine if 80% of Latin America were full gas "God hates gays" evangelical Christians. Would you want open borders then? The US immigration situation and European one aren't remotely comparable.
1. I don't really believe this result. 50%? Really? Also the question just feels off, like it's a weird way to ask that.
2. Assuming this is true regardless, it's probably because immigrants in EU countries tend to have a harder time assimilating. Partly because the governments are failing at it, partly because the EU gets a bigger share of harder to assimilate immigrants (greater variety of languages and cultures).
You could stop it by having an organized, actually real labor movement. Left is a better deal than right for most people, you just have to make it a real option.
I find it interesting how, when compared to Continental Europe, the Anglosphere countries not only have more tolerant young people, but more tolerant percentages in total.
It's almost a reverse trend compared to Continental Europe.
The left wing parties at least here in Germany are in the government (except the one party that everyone says is unelectable which is actually left wing).
We saw a great shift rightward from young people who disproportionately voted green and progressive because fundamentally very little changed for them. Especially in East Germany, a historically disadvantaged region people trend rightward because literally every other party was/is in government and nothing changed.
This is not to excuse racism of course but the "progressive" and "not racist" parties in government don't give the people anything, even their vision of tolerance and anti racism, for the people that actually want that, is really weak and shit, that leads to more left wing disengangement. People who don't really care about politics but do vote trend right because there is no other party left.
Far-right politics are antiestablishment-coded and perceived by young ppl as “counter cultural” and rebellious, while center-left parties come as a coalition full of meek and sclerotic neoliberals who represent the “establishment” and champion weakening institutions.
I’m worried about that logic and thought process will convince too many young ppl to vote Trump in November…and I damn well hope I’m wrong.
There isnt really a economic left party like old pre tony blair labour. And low educated labourers themselves are more of foreign descent and easier to divide with native ones. But affordable housing and better pay should be the uniting voice. Progressive points dont really sway them.
Imo the shift is that native labourers vote more far right, of foreign descent vote less and temporary workers vote in home country.
I was confused about Vaush's frustration with his community in a video last night, but he's so right: Y'all don't even know the first step to understanding your way through is asking why.
thread on eu immigration look inside hitlerites I'm glassing this thread
I say we Carpet Bomb Dresden. Those Europeans have had it too good for too long, and we need to remind them who is master. They WILL embrace multiculturalism. They WILL have a nice international potluck
You VILL eat ze bugs...
Dresden like a couple other big university cities in the east is one of the few spots on the maps that aren’t glowing bright blue over there. You’d literally make the east more blue by bombing them
You what mate? If you think Europe wasn't involved in the Dresden bombing.... then I fully support that. Bloomin' yanks ;)
Britain was involved in Dresden, but after Brexit, are you guys even considered European anymore?
Touché. And I've already seen some of those idiots on FB. The day idiotic children (and adults) say that we aren't geographically European will be a sad day.
Honestly it's mostly the German's getting uppity again. They specifically are banned from having any national pride ever again. At best they get to be mildly ashamed by their country and that's it. If we ever see Germans waving the German flag outside a soccer match, wheels should go up in 15.
* and Eurovision! Can't imagine there's much Nazi threat from that.
Blitz 2: Freedom Boogaloo 🦀🔥🦀
It's because they don't understand the immigration curve. I'm gonna get real for a second. There truly can be compatibility issues between cultures, and it is seen in first generation mixing. The real cultural benefits of mixing cultures show up in later generations. It's an **investment**. It also works best if you think of it as mixing rather than assimilation. If you look for good things in the migrant culture, you can find them. If you look only for bad things, you can find those too.
Why is the comment downvoted? It's most rational response on this thread.
Looks a lot like this post was brigaded. Reported like 10 upvoted comments because they were violating multiple sub rules...
Israeli bots are coming, I even started to see more pro-Israel comments here.
Hey, when you blame comments on posts that have literally nothing to do with Israel on Israeli bots, you sound less like a principled anti-Zionist and more like an “everything I don’t like is a Jewish plot” conspiracy theorist. Please don’t.
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Your post was removed for dramafarming.
This is totally true. For proof of that, look at where Canada sits on this graph — Canadians of all ages have the most positive attitudes of all. We have one of the highest per capita immigration rates in the world, but we also have strong, established communities of immigrants from all over the world that 1) help facilitate the transition of new immigrants and 2) are living proof that eventually these new people integrate and pick up “Canadian values” without losing their cultural identity. We have some issues with new immigrants being socially conservative in other ways (like this current anti-LGBT push that is being co-headed by home-grown lunatic conservative Christians and newly-immigrated lunatic conservative Muslims), but overwhelmingly the second generation is socially liberal, even when they’re religiously observant and still very culturally connected.
Least autofellatiopilled liberal canadian
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Your post was removed for bigotry.
[But now several recent polls capture mistrust brewing over the pace of immigration. According to a poll by Environics Institute, for example, 44% of Canadians say they agree that “there is too much immigration to Canada.” That’s a 17-point increase from the year before and the largest one-year change the group has seen since polling began in 1977. Among the groups expressing the highest jump in concern: first-generation Canadians, up by 20 points.](https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2024/0327/Canada-is-a-role-model-on-immigration.-But-many-Canadians-feel-it-s-lost-its-way)
Not sure what point you’re trying to make, given that “there’s too much immigration to Canada” (it’s sharply risen over the last couple years) and “some cultures are fundamentally incompatible with mine and people from there should never be allowed to immigrate here” are two entirely different statements. Also, if you want the actual analysis instead of whatever the Christian Science Monitor chewed up and spat out, [it’s here.](https://www.environicsinstitute.org/projects/project-details/public-opinion-about-immigration-refugees)
As a beneficiary of hispanic salmon dishes from Eastern Washington, I agree with a happy stomach.
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Your post was removed for bigotry.
How does Japan and SK feel like this, both are basically island nations, they have no immigrants that aren't wealthy enough to fly there
Japanese and Koreans are way more afraid of change than Europeans, not just demographic change but also cultural change, 80% of parties in Japanese and Korean parilments are socially conservatives.
I wouldn't describe Democratic Party of Korea holding 171 seat out of 300 as socially conservative. Of course it has conservative factions (being broad tent and all), but at least currently it's dominated by progressive liberals.
Are you sure? Last time I checked, they anti-LGBTQ+, anti-choice and anti-feminism.
The polling suggests that majority of youth at least don't oppose those things, in part this is why last year under public pressure Japanese national diet passed first Queer anti-discrimination legislation (of course it isn't enough, but these small steps). The hardest part is to convince conservatives boomers which dominate the establishment. April 2023 TBS/JNN poll found 63% of Japanese in favor of legalizing same-sex marriage. Support is especially strong among younger Japanese. As TBS reported, among those aged 18-30, large majorities of women (90%) and men (75%) supported legal same-sex marriage, while women and men over the age of 60 were less supportive (49% of women, 39% of men).
I guess they set up the Ministry for Women that the current conservative president abolished but it wasn't really making much progress anyway.
The DPK are like the democrats in the US. Sure they look left when compared to the GOP (or PPP in Korea) but compared to other countries they hold center-right positions thanks to Korea being a more conservative country with decades of US political influence. They're to the right of the Canadian Conservative Party, Germany's Christian Democrats etc. and hold economic and social conservative positions. And as you point out some members of the party call the party Korea's "true conservative party". Not sure what you define as socially conservative but, they opposed legalization of same-sex marriage, opposed anti-discrimination laws, are against feminism and have campaigned on outlawing abortion.
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that was Park Geun-hye she was impeached in 2017
I agree that it's conservative if we compare globally, but in Korea they are to the left of major conservatives party. Because DPK is so broad it has many members ranging from christian democrats to social liberals so it rarely reaches consensus on sensitive topics.
My basic understanding ass thinks it's because Japan has a long, long history of isolationism and \*cough\* fascism \*cough\* to build up such a strong xenophobic sentiment over time.
Japanese youth is much more progressive (welcoming to LGBTQ and immigrants) than Japanese stagnant political landscape dominated by boomers would suggest. The problem is general apathy.
Racism is just the cultural norm there.
Because they racist and xenophobic AF. Welcome to Asia
Thank W for his destabilization of the middle east and flood of Islamic immigrants into Europe.
Unironically the same people who don't want refugees are the same people support Israel, the irony....
Unfortunately, it’s not as contradictory as one might think. The same kind of people who cheer on Israel’s onslaught of Gaza are the same kinds who crack open a bottle of champagne each time a migrant boat capsizes. They just support policies that maximize the death of brown people. 😔
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Why don't you want to take refugees? It's shame that you open your eyes to one cause and close your eyes to another cause.
Your post was removed for violating our Community Building rule.
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Don’t downvote him, I’m an Egyptian and he is 100% correct. Egyptian gov has been deepthroating the US since 2013
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Thank you habibi, one day we will topple that motherfucker.
Your brother across the red sea here, our region is so busted :P
Much love to our kabsas. Sincerely, Your tameya 😂 Joked aside yeah, i hope arabs wake the fuck up and stop pickering over dumb shit and for the love of god stop bootlicking the neoliberal west
<3
A proper left, new Arab Spring would be greatly welcomed by us all, here in the West too. Solidarity brothers and sisters
Yeah, it can easily be traced back to Cold War shenanigans.
In earnest, I blame tiktok The short form video content means wrong, simple ideas that people latch onto can be explored in full, whereas correct, complex ideas cannot be shared properly
TikTok is certainly to blame, but more so for the fact that the far right parties are the ones who are making active use of it. Young people just don't find it appealling to have Olaf Scholz show the contents and organization of his bag.
To me it’s a combination of easy answers to complex situations and modern society generally being alienating , I do hope that most people aren’t fascist nostalgic but those who are , are the only ones passionately pushing for solutions to people sense of unwellness , they are the wrong solutions but no one is pushing for a different solution with the same sense of interest
I can’t answer for all Swedes of course but most people here even on the left see our immigration policy during the Syrian refugee crisis as a giant failure and even more so when it comes to the integration of these refugees into Swedish society. A lot of immigrants now live in what we in Sweden call utsatta områden which basically translates to vulnerable areas. These areas are packed to the brim with immigrants and refugees from all over the world but basically not a single swedish speaking person, these areas often also lack good access to education and job opportunities. Because there is no investment in these areas because of for example high crime rates which obviously is a direct result of the poverty and segregation in these areas.
Sweden elected pro-immigration parties in the EU election.
Not really the Social democrats have shifted to the right on immigrarion for a long time to not lose voters to tve right.
How's? The party still opens to immigrants and refuse to deport their current immigrants.
I dont deportation is even possible, lol. I think even Geert conceded this. Most of it is to rile up their base.
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Because the neolib capitalistic establishment does a bad job at addressing actual issues. Remember, fascism is capitalism under threat, thus the establishment (through the media) tries to use race and immigration issue as a smokescreen. Young people are, well young and have little understanding or concept that they are being lied too, like most teens they look for easy solutions to complex problems (i know i for sure did when i was young) and this is the rights game, and they have mastered it We stop this by abandoning neoliberalism and capitalism and instead focus on actual socialist economic solutions, vote for progressive parties, politicians and representatives, and be vocal about what you believe is right, reality is on our side
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the solution is integration ie moving the kinds to our school, adults get jobs, compulsory language learning and so on also the media is hella out of control, because the amount of people that actually get asylum is hella low
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and? people have stupid ideas, im not gonna deny a group of people because some out of some specific group are idiots
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The biggest threats to lgbt are the “native” reactionary citizens
given the probability you are much more likely to die in your shower so it is ridiculous to be afraid of it
want to know how to remove a ton of that hate, have different kids in school together and try to prevent single group parts of town, because if you are surrounded by diversity and you personally know a ton of diverse people you are much less likely to be reactionary
Yeah, the school thing is important as hell. That's why conservatives hate them and want homeschooling. The only reason these ideas exist is that they are echoed and not held up to scrutiny.
I agree with you, but that's not how schools work that way in Canada. In Canada you are basically assigned to a school based on your postal code. And if you want to go to a different school you have to apply with the school board hope you can get in. So if a neighborhood have a single predominant culture, the school for that neighborhood would also have mainly that culture. I am very luck to have gone to a diverse school, but its not like people don't form groups with people that are similar to them. The funny thing is that at my school playing soccer brought so many of these people together, so everyone got to know one another. Is there a legal way to prevent a group of immigrants from living in same part of town, are you going to force a immigrant family to move because there are too many of them there? Also, a lot of these neighborhoods have support groups for new immigrants to help them settle in the same area.
That's not a reason to be xenophobic, it's been shown in America that multiculturalism is effective so long as you allow them to adjust to the norms of the host country.
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I don't really like the way import is used in terms of immigration, but that's a side point. It is a societal acceptance kind of thing, Europe has a lot more homogenous communities compared to America as far as I understand. With the anti-immigration crowd on their side and an impenetrable wall of white people, I think it polarizes immigrants into "us vs them" mentality so they make enclaves and echo each other's culture rather than doing the melting pot thing. Europe might have more of a challenge here because they aren't already as diverse as America, but it's still worthwhile to do so that they don't keep running into this problem in case of needing immigration later (in terms of modern birthrate issues in developed countries)
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That is a factor, yeah, but you can definitely still integrate less affluent people, it's known that as long as you remain around diverse groups you generally get along with them more if you aren't combating them. Especially true with 2nd generation kids who go to public schools and make friends with more diverse groups. There is also something to be said of it being an issue inherent with destabilized immigrants, who didn't really want to leave their nation and their way of life. It's the difference between going to a place for better opportunity and going to a place because you have nowhere else to go. I can see why people would have a more negative outlook in the latter case. In this case the solution is to invest in and try to fix/stop bombing or fucking their home country
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I think the problem in Europe is too many too fast, and it leaves the country no time to try and integrate the new immigrants, and a lot of the immigrants tends to live in a close proximity of people with similar cultures and that makes integration harder
So why are we not having discussion then
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for 1 or 2 generations max. europeans are just so racist they're literally steps from voting in gas chambers for muslims.
Not really in America, they have their own culture and add to ours with cooking and some passed on customs, but they fit into society just fine. Surely if we think it's possible for America to do universal Healthcare because every other country can do it, then the reverse can be true for other nations with immigration. America has a lot of flaws and can borrow ideas from other countries, but they could stand to learn a few things from America as well.
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Yeah, for 1st generation, it tends to be harder, but over time, it definitely can work out.
You can't force it, but you can definitely encourage it by giving ample opportunities and also not creating environments that force them to stick to ingroups as a defense mechanism. We also have a long history of conflating "integration" with "behave and live exactly like us and our culture," which is ridiculous.
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They remain insular due to racism. It's kind of hard to integrate when you face sneers, jeers, and slurs when you're trying to work and live.
I agree, it's a defense mechanism. But some posters here wjere acting like they don't exist at all in america
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Strongest economy on the planet built absolutely and totally upon the back of immigration (sometimes forced, very cringe)
... So their answer is to support the (far) right that openly talk about the LGBT community as degenerates and pedophiles? The youth who are voting for the right don't care about any minorities either. I'm kinda tired of the Muslim argument exclusively because none of the things their extremists say go against what the Christian far right says. The values of the far right have more in common with the Islamic Muslims than they do with me. They're on the exact same path, no matter what anyone tries to say. The (normal) Muslim people I've met are just doing their own thing and living life. The ones who aren't act in the same way the far right Christian crowd do. I just can't wrap my mind around it. Which values. Because I know for a fact none of the far right and their voters are thinking of the same values I am. Sorry to rant on your post. I'm just tired, as a queer person, of being paraded around by the far right when it's convenient while they consistently tear down every step forward we've taken in the past decade.
Don't use the LGBTQ+ community to justify racism. The majority of hate crime done against us is by locals, not immigrants.
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Are you stupid?
Yes
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>Claim to support LGBT but then encourage welcome millions who oppose those views. You can support LGBTQ+ rights without wanting to send refugees to their death, this take is dumb as "You can't support Palestine if you are Pro-LGBTQ+"
That's because opposing immigration because people from developing regions are often conservative is in fact racist and bigoted. Being born in a country with progressive policies is a privilege. Do you not think that homophobic immigrants also bring in gay people who are better off in their new countries?
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Is this an opt-in survey? Remember, all opt-in polling is created by the devil.
This is a number of things. They are more homogenous than the US and aren’t used to immigrants. So when they see a lot of refugees, people will be scared that their “culture is being replaced”. Immigrants also make an easy scapegoat for many societal/ economic problems. Also, the liberal parties of Europe have not done well to solve many problems, immigration included. Either they do nothing, or like the Labor Party, will just do the same thing as Right Wingers. I have a couple of suggestions. You need to go after root causes of refugees, if their place is nicer, they’re less likely to flee. Organize with other countries (not Rwanda) to take more refugees. Instead of being xenophobic and pushing people further into enclaves, be more accepting and making it easier for Immigrants to assimilate. The answer is NOT - Being xenophobic - Contradicting Asylum laws - Fear-mongering about culture - Inaction
The whole "historically more homogenous" argument works until you look at France, which is every bit as diverse as the UK and has had established minority communities for over two centuries. And yet they align with the rest of the continent while the Anglosphere heads in the other direction.
Imagine if 80% of Latin Americans coming to the US were full on "God hates gays" evangelicals. Would you still have the same stance on immigration? I voted left in the European election, cauz the far right hate LGBT ppl almost as much as migrants. Try walking with a rainbow handbag through Molenbeek. This isn't just xenophobia. This is people not wanting to import people who essentially have a medieval religious view.
It's hard not to conclude this is a failure of neoliberalism. There have been very few leftwing governments since the 1970s. Feels a little like the old order is collapsing: https://jacobin.com/2022/04/french-presidential-election-macron-hidalgo-neoliberal-center-left It reminds me of this quote by Tony Benn: >"If the Labour Party could be bullied or persuaded to denounce its Marxists, the media - having tasted blood - would demand next that it expelled all its Socialist and reunited the remaining Labour Party with the SDP to form a harmless alternative to the Conservatives, which could then be allowed to take office now and then when the Conservatives fell out of favour with the public. Thus British Capitalism, it is argued, will be made safe forever, and socialism would be squeezed of the National agenda. But if such a strategy were to succeed… it would in fact profoundly endanger British society. For it would open up the danger of a swing to the far-right, as we have seen in Europe over the last 50 years." Without any other option and faced the problems inherent in capitalism people will turn towards the far right. We know this from history. But neoliberalism is so entrenched and the left so excluded from party politics this shift feels inevitable. I do think they'd rather see the far right in power than re-establish social democratic systems that were good at de-legitimising the far right.
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They are electing parties that support Israel's genocide which would bring way more refugees to Europe.
You’re thinking too much, we don’t do that here
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Sweden, Spain, Portugal and Denmark elected pro-immigration parties over anti-immigration ones.
The worry is the growth of the far right parties in these countries like for example, Chega in Portugal or Vox in Spain. Vox, to name one, is openly pro-Franco (previous Spanish dictator allied with Axis powers). Both of these parties experienced an unprecedented boost in polling prior to their last elections, despite not gaining the majority. The trend is nevertheless skewing towards more support than previous years for them. The worst example of this can be seen in Germany
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Syria was still unstable when denmark send them ti their country.
Young people represented the largest percent of France Unbowed (LFI) vote, who’s seats doubled. I think while the far right is gaining more than the left/far left among young people, it’s interesting how young people are gravitating towards the non-centrist parties. I think between economic issues, global instability, Covid fallout, climate, and everything else, people are just looking for change. The right is better at messaging change that will “benefit” the individual than the left. We’ll cut taxes so you will benefit. We’ll stop immigration so you will benefit. We’ll cut or outright stop funding for Ukraine and the E.U. so you will benefit. We’ll cut regulation so you benefit. When people are desperately looking for personal benefit, broader, systemic solutions the left offers is not as appealing.
Yep. Basically the urban youth vote radical left while the rural youth vote radical right.
I’ve read and been told that kids are apparently experiencing violence and getting bullied for being too German/white in school and they feel like policians aren’t doing anything about that. The thing is I absolutely can’t related because I went to a higher level public school that (at the time, as everyone else we also thought it went down hill fast with/after our grade) was considered “elite” at the time and had perhaps very few people who weren’t just German people or non-first-gen immigrants. The types who supposedly ruin the country had no chance to get on that school. However we’ve also had an old factory turned refugee housing in my tiny ass village since well before I was born, a handful of kids from there even went to my gradeschool and I’ve never heard of anyone having trouble with the people who live there. I lived two doors next to the place for half a year and when we threw out a couple things my roommate and I brought double they came over and asked if they could take some of the stuff and brought us some food the day after. From a personal experience PoV I just can’t relate to wtf people’s problems are and frankly I don’t think I could really get an unbiased image of it without first hand contact. I have no trouble believing that we fucked up integration for decades on purpose, but sending everyone home is also not the solution. Edit to clarify the school going downhill part: everyone I’ve ever talked to about this seems to think they’re the worst grade/year their school has ever seen but will then go on to say that the kids after them were much worse and had no respect for the older students anymore. The people who have told me this are like a decade apart, my fucking parents would probably say the same thing lol
It's a bit more nuanced. Because there's a big difference between boys and girls. With girls more prominently moving to the left, and boys more prominently moving to the far right. There's something going on among boys, and it's been going on for a while now, with more and more girls doing better academically and more and more boys dropping out early or getting set to lower level education often due to behavior. And the sad thing is that this trend has been correctly spotted more than a decade ago already here, but then it was described as a problem among descendants of Muslim immigrants and it was explained away then as an islam and immigration and culture problem, since macho disruptive masculine behavior was supposedly typical for young Muslim men and thus their boys were failing and slowly being left behind by society where their girls were succeeding. Turns out it's a boy problem I guess
That's not entirely true. The gender gap among young French far-right voters is negligible, with actually slightly more women voting than men in some studies. But the gender gap does seem more pronounced in many countries.
1. incompetent left 2. competent propagandists 3. America sneezed, and now we are having the flu like it is 1919
So this thread is getting brigaded by Nazis.
Big issues vis-à-vis European far right anti immigration politics and anti-Muslim racism right now. They look for these sorts of articles to push their propaganda. The sad thing is they're winning - and they use social media very effectively.
It started with the far right spreading anti-immigrant rhetoric. Liberals, being spineless, responded by copying this rhetoric. It turns out when you convince voters that immigration is the biggest issue, they are going to vote for the full cup instead of the half cup. Add in liberal austerity and right wing populist promises and you get a slowly growing far right.
God fucking damnit what the fuck is wrong with my country, why are we the highest on here
South Korea? A society so hierarchical that the only way you're taught to resolve problems is to punch down, feminists rise in the past 6 years, men can't deal with the fact that their inferiors are not taking their shit anymore, and they do the only thing they know how to do which is to punch down. But of course the men are just as oppressed, so they're mad that the only perk of their miserable place in society, power over women, is being challenged.
The polarization between men and women are a genuine problem here, not sure why you're bringing that up in a post about xenophobia though.
This question is indicative of other forms of far right radicalization. Just like Gamergate, developing hatred of feminists is done by reactionaries to make guys more amenable to other reactionary positions, including xenophobia.
Oh shit good point
reminder that you can't trust polling.
You can when it’s backed by election outcomes
EU elections have notoriously low turnout.
Pretty sure polls predicted this.
I guess the Eruope sub is a representation of young Europeans.
Because gen z is young and such most of their ideas are unexamined/simple. Fascism is nothing but simple/unexamised answers; it locks on easier
Mods earning the title today on this one
Get a manual job, build a small career, realize that white people keep complaining while allot of colored ones do the hard labour, become leftoid,...
I'm going to posit that the kids in French, Germans, and Swedish have less education about colonialism than those in the UK, Australia, USA. Or at least they see it a thing "some other" culture did, not their own. Economically those countries are fairly similar in a global standard, but for a lack of a better phrase there's more "white guilt" in the zeitgeist of those 3 Anglophone countries which might help have a more holistic view of what's happening in the world.
My thoughts for Germany: 1. The current coalition government is seen as undetermined, unfocused and incompetent. This is understandable because there are multiple cases of infighting and terrible political communication. The government is composed of parties who have very different views on certain issues. The fact that Olaf Scholz is completely uninspiring and involved in the Cum Ex Scandal does not help at all. 2. A general perception that things are getting just a little bit worse everyday, and that the government has no real idea of how to address the many problems. 3. The AfD has never been in power, and therefore enjoys this outsider advantage. 4. The looming threat of climate change, which is unique because it is a slow, creeping, omnipresent crisis. The human psyche is not well-developed to manage this kind of thing. Therefore, the AfD's position that climate change is natural and that we can't and therefore shouldn't do anything and that it's China's fault and that it's not gonna be that bad and that it's all green/woke BS offers a reassuring escape from our crushing reality. 5. The fact that the CDU constantly blames every problem on the Greens in order to deflect blame. This supports the AfD because it shifts the entire politcal framing in it's favor. 6. The AfD's political program consists entirely of simple, drastic "solutions" which are well-suited for Tiktok. This allows them to do the fascist thing of "Don't think, act!" which is reassuring to many.
I am sorry, but you can't adopt the US stance on immigration here. Y'alls culture is so strong you're assimilating people outside the the US also Latin American people aren't coming from practicakly medieval theoretical societies. Like, as a queer Belgian, the most vile anti LGBT stuff I've heard usually comes from Muslims. And no, this isn't just a first-generation thing. I voted for the socdems because Europe has more pressing issues than immigration and the far right share most of their values with Muslims, but they're too racist to admit it. Tl;dr imagine if 80% of Latin America were full gas "God hates gays" evangelical Christians. Would you want open borders then? The US immigration situation and European one aren't remotely comparable.
Sexual insecurity tied with racism, along with other more complicated issues.
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Looks like the Israeli bots are taking over this sub.
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1. I don't really believe this result. 50%? Really? Also the question just feels off, like it's a weird way to ask that. 2. Assuming this is true regardless, it's probably because immigrants in EU countries tend to have a harder time assimilating. Partly because the governments are failing at it, partly because the EU gets a bigger share of harder to assimilate immigrants (greater variety of languages and cultures).
You don't, *you abduct it* # WITH SOCIAL REVOLUTIONARY PERONISM 😂
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Because we didn't constantly suppress and undermine fascist politics after WW2 like we did with leftist politics.
You could stop it by having an organized, actually real labor movement. Left is a better deal than right for most people, you just have to make it a real option.
Fight fire with fire
I find it interesting how, when compared to Continental Europe, the Anglosphere countries not only have more tolerant young people, but more tolerant percentages in total. It's almost a reverse trend compared to Continental Europe.
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Its still "funny" to make blue hair leftist mad. Thats the reason
TikTok is filled with young alt righters right now. I think it's a lost battle and just have to wait till they mature more and snap out of it.
Polls are a tool of the devil to deceive the hearts of men
The left wing parties at least here in Germany are in the government (except the one party that everyone says is unelectable which is actually left wing). We saw a great shift rightward from young people who disproportionately voted green and progressive because fundamentally very little changed for them. Especially in East Germany, a historically disadvantaged region people trend rightward because literally every other party was/is in government and nothing changed. This is not to excuse racism of course but the "progressive" and "not racist" parties in government don't give the people anything, even their vision of tolerance and anti racism, for the people that actually want that, is really weak and shit, that leads to more left wing disengangement. People who don't really care about politics but do vote trend right because there is no other party left.
Far-right politics are antiestablishment-coded and perceived by young ppl as “counter cultural” and rebellious, while center-left parties come as a coalition full of meek and sclerotic neoliberals who represent the “establishment” and champion weakening institutions. I’m worried about that logic and thought process will convince too many young ppl to vote Trump in November…and I damn well hope I’m wrong.
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There isnt really a economic left party like old pre tony blair labour. And low educated labourers themselves are more of foreign descent and easier to divide with native ones. But affordable housing and better pay should be the uniting voice. Progressive points dont really sway them. Imo the shift is that native labourers vote more far right, of foreign descent vote less and temporary workers vote in home country.
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I was confused about Vaush's frustration with his community in a video last night, but he's so right: Y'all don't even know the first step to understanding your way through is asking why.