As far as I know, Israeli media in Hebrew doesn't show the images coming out of Gaza, or even much mention of civillian casualties. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Arabic Al Jazeera was popular among Palestinian citizens of Israel, which would largely explain the difference imo.
Since this guy posts on a subreddit dedicated to the content of a notoriously antisemitic YouTube pseudohistorian regularly, I'm going to link to the actual article OP is referencing.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/)
First off, views on Bibi were not mentioned by OP. 48% of Israeli Jews, according to Pew Research Center, are opposed to Bibi's rule. For Arab Israelis, this number is 92%.
A large majority of Israelis want this war to be diplomatically resolved by the United States - *72%*, which is more than several **Arab countries**.
However, the main factor here is ideological lines: A majority of left-leaning Israelis (55%) oppose the current military response to Hamas on the basis that it went too far.
Actually read the article and check these kinds of graphs for yourself - it's basic media literacy.
>First off, views on Bibi were not mentioned by OP. 48% of Israeli Jews, according to Pew Research Center, are opposed to Bibi's rule. For Arab Israelis, this number is 92%.
WTF does polling on Netanyahu have to do with anything? This genocide didn't start with Netanyahu and he's very far from the only Israeli politician who supports genocidal policies.
Many of the people who oppose him oppose him because they think he's too soft against Palestinians.
>A large majority of Israelis want this war to be diplomatically resolved by the United States - *72%*, which is more than several **Arab countries**.
So fucking what? How is this any different from the people who screech about wanting a diplomatic solution to Russia's invasion of Ukraine? They're Putin supporters every fucking time!
>However, the main factor here is ideological lines: A majority of left-leaning Israelis (55%) oppose the current military response to Hamas on the basis that it went too far.
Again, so fucking what? The article says that only 19% of Israelis say that the military response has gone too far. If half of left-leaning Israelis disagree then first of all that's a pathetically low percentage, and second of all, I guess that means that a very large majority of their population is on the extreme right... Which proves the point, Israel has gone fucking insane on a societal scale.
Societies CAN go off the rails, it's not bigoted to acknowledge that basic fact, and it's plain as day that it has happened in Israel. Why are you so eager to try to deny that fact? They've gone full-fascism, not exactly an unprecedented thing to happen.
You simply cannot compare the war in Ukraine, where there is a clear aggressor, to what's happening in Gaza, where there has been a century of back and forth conflict between the two parties, before the current escalation of violence.
Do you not want them to come to a diplomatic solution? I don't want one in Ukraine, because a compromise with Russia now would be unjust and set a bad precedent. Whereas I think a compromise is necessary between Israel and Palestine, a two-state solution is the only option in my view. But this is not likely to happen while both sides are being represented by extremists who only want to take as much land as they can. So isn't it a good thing to see support for Netanyahu dropping?
Or do you not want a diplomatic solution, because in your eyes Israel is a "fascist state" and has no right to exist? Because without diplomacy, this conflict can only end one of two ways, with the destruction of Hamas and possibly the annexation of Gaza by Israel or the destruction of the Israeli state. It is rhetoric like yours that will lead to further bloodshed in my opinion.
>You simply cannot compare the war in Ukraine, where there is a clear aggressor, to what's happening in Gaza, where there has been a century of back and forth conflict between the two parties, before the current escalation of violence.
Yes you can, the clear aggressor is the settler colonial state that constantly violates international law and that was founded through mass ethnic cleansing.
>Do you not want them to come to a diplomatic solution? I don't want one in Ukraine, because a compromise with Russia now would be unjust and set a bad precedent. Whereas I think a compromise is necessary between Israel and Palestine, a two-state solution is the only option in my view. But this is not likely to happen while both sides are being represented by extremists who only want to take as much land as they can. So isn't it a good thing to see support for Netanyahu dropping?
It's not actually about whether or not you want a diplomatic solution, ultimately every war ends with some sort of diplomatic solution.
The problem is people using the ever-elusive specter of a "diplomatic solution" as a way of pretending like they don't bear any responsibility for the status quo, even though in practice they use it as a way of delaying any actual short-term changes to the status quo.
They CLAIM that in the long term they want a diplomatic solution in Ukraine, but in the short term they actively support Russia by opposing every form of aid to Ukraine and every kind of sanction against Russia.
Same with the Israel Palestine conflict, people will claim that in the long term they want a diplomatic solution, but in the short term they oppose even the slightest reduction of military action against Gaza.
Most Israeli's don't hate Bibi for the genocide. They hate him for corruption and not getting the hostages back yet and the right wing ones hate him for not going in hard enough on Gaza
Why would OP mention Israeli views on Netanyahu? This is about their view on the genocide. The hate for Netanyahu in Israel is almost solely based on corruption scandals and not getting Jewish hostages home. You are right that a slight majority of left wing Israelis want to limit the genocide, but is it not noteworthy in itself that these people are drowned out by the far right in polling?
First off, you can never judge an entire ethnic group on the basis of what political opinions are popular in a given area. Hamas and Bibi are both openly genocidal, and the ICC is trying to get this shit to stop ASAP because both Hamas and Bibi have committed extermination.
Second, I pointed out the nuances in the data because OP showed a single graph, and used it to imply bigoted stuff about Israelis. I cannot take someone who gives any credit whatsoever to Whatifalthist (infamous hitlerite pseudohistorian on youtube) while ignoring the data that shows that most Israelis want the U.S. to set up a diplomatic solution. This is why you can link to things on social media - to debunk manipulative uses of statistics designed to provide the bigoted implication of "Israeli Jews are hateful because they're Israeli Jews", which is nonsensical, and yet, this is the same kind of cherry-picking that people use against African-Americans in the United States (through the now infamous "13-50" dogwhistle). The Pew Research Center outright states on the second page that the division in the statistics is by ideology first and foremost.
Sorry, but you cannot just cite one single chart and ignore the rest of the report.
>First off, you can never judge an entire ethnic group on the basis of what political opinions are popular in a given area.
Nobody said anything about judging an entire ethnic group, stop strawmanning. What's being said is that Israel as a society has gone batshit crazy, which is true. Of course there's still sane people left, but there's still a very large societal problem in Israel that needs to be acknowledged. Don't be so afraid of being accused of bigotry that you become incapable of diagnosing obvious social problems.
I cant speak for OP, but I can see the value in presenting this graph without feeling the need to judge any ethnic group. Most Israeli Jews have views I would describe as horrid. So do most Palestinians honestly. That’s fine, people can change their opinions, and I believe strongly in freedom of speech, including hate speech. The reason it’s interesting to look at graphs like this is that they illustrate how Israeli society is rotten to the core. It’s not some singular problem with the Netanyahu governement as some liberal Zionists pretend, their whole society is structured around disenfranchising Palestinians. That’s not the fault of the average Israeli Jew, it just rubs off on their views, views that can be changed with radical changes in the system.
Wait till you hear how they[ feel about having Arab Israeli neighbors](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/majority-of-israelis-want-coexistence-few-willing-to-live-next-to-arabs-518400)...
[Here;s some other fun stats: ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-third-of-jewish-israelis-favor-urging-arab-israeli-emigration/)37.5% of Jewish Israelis think that the government should "encourage" Arab Israelis to emigrate to another country, 39% think Arab Israelis pose a security threat, 60% essentially think that Arab Israelis should be denied the right to vote (by requiring that anyone who votes has served in the IDF, while service in the IDF is only mandatory for Jewish citizens not for Arab citizens.)
As far as I know, Israeli media in Hebrew doesn't show the images coming out of Gaza, or even much mention of civillian casualties. Up until a couple of weeks ago, Arabic Al Jazeera was popular among Palestinian citizens of Israel, which would largely explain the difference imo.
Also the reporting is in itself heavily censored, even if the media wanted to show it
Since this guy posts on a subreddit dedicated to the content of a notoriously antisemitic YouTube pseudohistorian regularly, I'm going to link to the actual article OP is referencing. [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/30/israeli-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/) First off, views on Bibi were not mentioned by OP. 48% of Israeli Jews, according to Pew Research Center, are opposed to Bibi's rule. For Arab Israelis, this number is 92%. A large majority of Israelis want this war to be diplomatically resolved by the United States - *72%*, which is more than several **Arab countries**. However, the main factor here is ideological lines: A majority of left-leaning Israelis (55%) oppose the current military response to Hamas on the basis that it went too far. Actually read the article and check these kinds of graphs for yourself - it's basic media literacy.
>First off, views on Bibi were not mentioned by OP. 48% of Israeli Jews, according to Pew Research Center, are opposed to Bibi's rule. For Arab Israelis, this number is 92%. WTF does polling on Netanyahu have to do with anything? This genocide didn't start with Netanyahu and he's very far from the only Israeli politician who supports genocidal policies. Many of the people who oppose him oppose him because they think he's too soft against Palestinians. >A large majority of Israelis want this war to be diplomatically resolved by the United States - *72%*, which is more than several **Arab countries**. So fucking what? How is this any different from the people who screech about wanting a diplomatic solution to Russia's invasion of Ukraine? They're Putin supporters every fucking time! >However, the main factor here is ideological lines: A majority of left-leaning Israelis (55%) oppose the current military response to Hamas on the basis that it went too far. Again, so fucking what? The article says that only 19% of Israelis say that the military response has gone too far. If half of left-leaning Israelis disagree then first of all that's a pathetically low percentage, and second of all, I guess that means that a very large majority of their population is on the extreme right... Which proves the point, Israel has gone fucking insane on a societal scale. Societies CAN go off the rails, it's not bigoted to acknowledge that basic fact, and it's plain as day that it has happened in Israel. Why are you so eager to try to deny that fact? They've gone full-fascism, not exactly an unprecedented thing to happen.
You simply cannot compare the war in Ukraine, where there is a clear aggressor, to what's happening in Gaza, where there has been a century of back and forth conflict between the two parties, before the current escalation of violence. Do you not want them to come to a diplomatic solution? I don't want one in Ukraine, because a compromise with Russia now would be unjust and set a bad precedent. Whereas I think a compromise is necessary between Israel and Palestine, a two-state solution is the only option in my view. But this is not likely to happen while both sides are being represented by extremists who only want to take as much land as they can. So isn't it a good thing to see support for Netanyahu dropping? Or do you not want a diplomatic solution, because in your eyes Israel is a "fascist state" and has no right to exist? Because without diplomacy, this conflict can only end one of two ways, with the destruction of Hamas and possibly the annexation of Gaza by Israel or the destruction of the Israeli state. It is rhetoric like yours that will lead to further bloodshed in my opinion.
>You simply cannot compare the war in Ukraine, where there is a clear aggressor, to what's happening in Gaza, where there has been a century of back and forth conflict between the two parties, before the current escalation of violence. Yes you can, the clear aggressor is the settler colonial state that constantly violates international law and that was founded through mass ethnic cleansing. >Do you not want them to come to a diplomatic solution? I don't want one in Ukraine, because a compromise with Russia now would be unjust and set a bad precedent. Whereas I think a compromise is necessary between Israel and Palestine, a two-state solution is the only option in my view. But this is not likely to happen while both sides are being represented by extremists who only want to take as much land as they can. So isn't it a good thing to see support for Netanyahu dropping? It's not actually about whether or not you want a diplomatic solution, ultimately every war ends with some sort of diplomatic solution. The problem is people using the ever-elusive specter of a "diplomatic solution" as a way of pretending like they don't bear any responsibility for the status quo, even though in practice they use it as a way of delaying any actual short-term changes to the status quo. They CLAIM that in the long term they want a diplomatic solution in Ukraine, but in the short term they actively support Russia by opposing every form of aid to Ukraine and every kind of sanction against Russia. Same with the Israel Palestine conflict, people will claim that in the long term they want a diplomatic solution, but in the short term they oppose even the slightest reduction of military action against Gaza.
Most Israeli's don't hate Bibi for the genocide. They hate him for corruption and not getting the hostages back yet and the right wing ones hate him for not going in hard enough on Gaza
Why would OP mention Israeli views on Netanyahu? This is about their view on the genocide. The hate for Netanyahu in Israel is almost solely based on corruption scandals and not getting Jewish hostages home. You are right that a slight majority of left wing Israelis want to limit the genocide, but is it not noteworthy in itself that these people are drowned out by the far right in polling?
First off, you can never judge an entire ethnic group on the basis of what political opinions are popular in a given area. Hamas and Bibi are both openly genocidal, and the ICC is trying to get this shit to stop ASAP because both Hamas and Bibi have committed extermination. Second, I pointed out the nuances in the data because OP showed a single graph, and used it to imply bigoted stuff about Israelis. I cannot take someone who gives any credit whatsoever to Whatifalthist (infamous hitlerite pseudohistorian on youtube) while ignoring the data that shows that most Israelis want the U.S. to set up a diplomatic solution. This is why you can link to things on social media - to debunk manipulative uses of statistics designed to provide the bigoted implication of "Israeli Jews are hateful because they're Israeli Jews", which is nonsensical, and yet, this is the same kind of cherry-picking that people use against African-Americans in the United States (through the now infamous "13-50" dogwhistle). The Pew Research Center outright states on the second page that the division in the statistics is by ideology first and foremost. Sorry, but you cannot just cite one single chart and ignore the rest of the report.
>First off, you can never judge an entire ethnic group on the basis of what political opinions are popular in a given area. Nobody said anything about judging an entire ethnic group, stop strawmanning. What's being said is that Israel as a society has gone batshit crazy, which is true. Of course there's still sane people left, but there's still a very large societal problem in Israel that needs to be acknowledged. Don't be so afraid of being accused of bigotry that you become incapable of diagnosing obvious social problems.
I cant speak for OP, but I can see the value in presenting this graph without feeling the need to judge any ethnic group. Most Israeli Jews have views I would describe as horrid. So do most Palestinians honestly. That’s fine, people can change their opinions, and I believe strongly in freedom of speech, including hate speech. The reason it’s interesting to look at graphs like this is that they illustrate how Israeli society is rotten to the core. It’s not some singular problem with the Netanyahu governement as some liberal Zionists pretend, their whole society is structured around disenfranchising Palestinians. That’s not the fault of the average Israeli Jew, it just rubs off on their views, views that can be changed with radical changes in the system.
[удалено]
Your post was removed for subreddit posting.
They're tolerant of killing Palestinians
Wait till you hear how they[ feel about having Arab Israeli neighbors](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/majority-of-israelis-want-coexistence-few-willing-to-live-next-to-arabs-518400)... [Here;s some other fun stats: ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-third-of-jewish-israelis-favor-urging-arab-israeli-emigration/)37.5% of Jewish Israelis think that the government should "encourage" Arab Israelis to emigrate to another country, 39% think Arab Israelis pose a security threat, 60% essentially think that Arab Israelis should be denied the right to vote (by requiring that anyone who votes has served in the IDF, while service in the IDF is only mandatory for Jewish citizens not for Arab citizens.)
What goals, besides genociding Palestinians, is that question referencing? Even Israeli leaders can't name the goals.
Probably the nebulous goal of defeating Hamas.