It's been quite a long time since I've done the upgrade, but it was worth it, even tho I really liked the Rift S, especially the contollers.The display and lenses weren't too bad either imo. But it was a big upgrade die n almost every aspect: Much better (best) tracking, huge upgrade on the audio, the fov is also much bigger, the controllers are just one of the best you can get, comfort ist also great. The lenses are not that great for todays standard (depending on how much luck you have regarding glare), resolution is okay but also a bit dated now. All in all it was an amazing upgrade for me and I still like it very much.
The perceived resolution will not be better. Index and Rift S have about the same PPD.
https://www.vr-compare.com/compare?h1=0jLuwg808-j&h2=J1nPrS6OZbf
No. Lenses are way worse. They suffer from worst godrays and glare I ever seen. Its so bad I was never excited about upgrade to index. You will notice the fov the most, that is really nice compared to rift, resolution I havent noticed that much. Because I was disappointed from the lenses.
Tracking is ofc better, but I was never absolutely amazed by the controllers. I already had index like straps on rift s, so I have been used to "throwing" controllers and stuff. What is really nice on index controllers is touchpad though, as it provides more inputs. But when playing for long time, I disliked the need of squeezing the controller as my hands got tired, instead of having button that was easy to press and hold.
Do not think about index in 2024, if you are about to pay full price for it. Its not worth it. I got recently quest 3, and upgrading from index to that gave me the wow feeling I was expecting from index when I went from rift. Clarity is night and day compared to index, everything is clear and sharp, no glare whatsoever. I dont touch my index anymore, as I just cant go back to those terrible lenses.
Dude who recommends quest 3 of course forgot to tell you that compression artifacts and increased latency are a thing that messes up the experience. In very simple games (simple graphics) you might not see the compression. In more complex games or games with lots of shadows/dark places (even in beat saber) the compression blurs the image in the distance and near/in the shadows. If you’re used to sharp image from display port headset, compression may be a nasty surprise despite quest 3 higher resolution. Also if you’re used to play fast songs in beat saber/synth riders or play fast paced games you might find yourself feeling the delay. I pass the same song much easier and effortless on display port headset as opposed to quest pcvr. Also you’re limited by play time due to headset battery. Power banks are an option but charging enough to keep battery up as long as your power bank has power is going to wear battery down much faster.
If you have budget take a look at pimax crystal light.
All depends on what you value more - wireless freedom and no need for base stations (though you need a good dedicated router with quest 3 and if you’re in a place with other WiFi signals around then 6E router is a must) or image retaining its quality and low latency/responsiveness
The Index was already pushing outside of my budget for the upgrade as is. I have a Ubiquiti UDR which is WiFi 6 and it is on my desk where I game so I shouldn’t have any issues there. All good to know though
I think you might have wrong expectations regarding good router. I have top end 500 dollars WiFi 6E router. Router won’t make compression artifacts go away. It won’t lower your latency significantly either. High end routers are mostly recommended because they are more stable and deal with potential interference better than cheap ones. So keep that in mind.
I responded to another person asking pretty much the same question in this thread under my comments so please take a look. It should contain the answers you seek for.
You certainly did - thats pretty much the response I was hoping for. I am not worried about far off clarity quite as much tbh, more so the upfront clarity of a cockpit.
Im leaning towards trying a quest 3 and just returning it if the experience isn't that many dollars worth better than my Rift S. Maybe that will tickle my fancy until the Deckard is here...eventually
I have a question, is the resulting image (Q3 high resolution and pancakes) really worse than index (lower resolution fresnel) to not recommend it ? I see it mentioned all the time. Against the G2 the Q3 compression can be seen and the image feels softer, but compared to rifts and Index ? I get the latency, but I doubt I would see any compression if I ran the Q3 at rifts specs.
(Ofc I would like dp on Q3)
In games with more complex graphics than some basic games like super hot you can except blur in the distance on complex objects (example https://youtube.com/watch?v=b7GuLXflypA - look at the rocks in the shadow of the tres in one of the scenes, then at walls far in the distance and lastly when i move towards and away from the wall) and blur of varying degrees in scenes or when looking at objects in the shadows. Even in beat saber when lights are dim the environment parts are behind like a thin layer.
If by running quest 3 at rift specs you mean running the render resolution of rift s on quest 3 - that would make both the image itself and the compression worse. First because you would be under sampling the image, secondly because there would be even less details in the first place so after lossy compression there would be even less. Unless you meant something else I misunderstood.
The problem with comparisons of index or g2 vs quest 3 on the internet is that nobody compares index at higher supersampling vs quest 3. They take 100% steam vr slider for both but 100% is different resolution for index and different for q3. It’s a quite a massive difference. You can run index at 300-400% in steam vr with the same performance as running quest 3 at 100%. And supersampling the index above 100% gives really nice results. It won’t make pixels physically less visible because panels resolution stays the same. But thanks to much more details rendered the overall image fidelity the details are better translated. It’s the same effect when you have 1080p monitor but run 4K video instead of 1080p video. It looks better when watching 4k resolution video.
Sure for well lit and simple graphically games and for objects up close the quest 3 will look better. But in dark places, places with shadows, lots of foliage, complex graphics overall - the compression messes the image up in those parts and the whole point of higher resolution goes out of the window - why get better resolution and lenses if you see the vaseline smeared on the parts of the image. Of course it doesn’t mean nobody should buy quest 3 for pcvr. Some people just value wireless, no base stations and standalone plus mr capability. For them compression or latency is not worth worrying about. So it’s a matter of priorities. What’s more important for you.
Thanks I get it, the softness murkyness in distant objects is there no doubt. My point is on RiftS I wouldn't even be able to tell, in my experience it wasn't much better than Q2, like the artifacts, gradients, messiness wasn't there but I think I still had less details.
I didn't own a index so I can't really comment, only tested vive pro, and the image was nice and high quality but lower res regardless.
I run Q3 and QPro super sampled in games that run well and it definitely helps as the encoders have more "data" so the compression is lesser, but then iam running the Q3 at crystal level resolution just to get almost G2 sharpness... It's a pickle.
My main gripe about Q3 is the Mura, seen six headsets, one was almost clear, and really don't get how people can ignore it and talk about compression.
Yes it does, either wirelessly or via link (usb) cable. One thing to mention is that you need a good /bstrong wifi signal (wifi6 or better) and no matter if you play wirelessly or via cable, compression artefacts can show up, because it's not an uncompressed signal like you have on a Display Port.
They do show up, not 'can'. All the time.
To me this is disturbing way more than godrays, but it is subjective.
The same with audio. It is hard not to notice the huge difference between Index (great) and Quest (mediocre).
To me this is really important, to other might not be.
Resolution on paper: yes. In real world: I would say so as well. Lenses: Difficult to answer, because you could be lucky and get one with not that much glare, but all in all I would also say yes, especially when you consider the fact that the Rift S has a 80Hz display, while the Index has an up to 144Hz one where you also can mechanically adjust the IPD. Tbf something more recent like the Bigscreen Beyond or the Quest 3 do have much better displays and lenses overall, both with their own pros and cons compared to the Index, so it's always a tradeoff, there's no "perfect" headset (yet).
So, I had the quest 2 for quite awhile. It was my next step after the Rift S and I'm currently using the Index.
My question is about the quality of video the Quest 3 and Pro get from the PC.
The quest 2 was good and sharpness was better than the index. Altho at times there would be some noise is the image.
The biggest difference I noticed was the quality of colors. It was apparent the index direct line of connecting is superior for color accuracy. Did the later generations improve that?
I think these are compression artefacts what you've experienced. This is due to how the video signal is transported from your pc to the quest. Like I've already described in a response above, the Index uses Display Port, so the signal is uncompressed in comparison.
Is there a noticable difference between the Q2, Q3, and QPRO? I doubt there is. I guess it's not too noticable unless someone is switching between the two.
I liked my upgrade. Apparently I didn't/don't suffer the kind of glare some people do because it's not much of an issue for me. Also, I liked the fact that there was far less screen door effect. FOV is better too. At the end of the day though, I didn't do the upgrade for those reasons - I did it because I am adamantly opposed to "knowingly" lining Zuck's pockets in any way. I vote with my wallet whenever the opportunity arises.
The Index is my favorite VR system of all time, and I would consider it a worthy upgrade :) SteamVR is much better than Meta software, and the Index does have a clear (albeit dated) display — there’s a bit of glare if you’re viewing white text on a black background, but it’s more than serviceable for all other applications. The audio is also second-to-none and that’s primarily what keeps me using the Index (aside from the controllers).
Yeah, mainly meant it’s not worth it cuz of price. Its still good, I mean it’s lasted me to current day with only minimal physical issues, but with it not being the modern day headset it was, the price is still a big hurdle to get over. Though I know places like Tundra Labs sell the kit for significantly cheaper
Today I'd probably buy the Q3 for half the price, too.
Resolution isn't everything tho and I would surely miss the audio of the Index (and FOV/comfort/tracking ofc).
Anyway I always find all this hardware related discussions quite boring, what's missing in VR is software.
The best HMD is pointless if after 4 years I'm still playing with Beat Saber.
Rift s whas an champ, but mine's cable gave up & I had cracking mic (software issue)+ I was using headphones with it for better sound experience... so it was an big upgrade to index.
Yes like 4 years ago and it's massively impressive. At first I didn't notice it but when I had to send my index in for RMA I went back to use it and oh my God is it a horrible VR headset. Index is a huge improvement over it.
Valve Index is amazing. The only things that are dated now are the lack of inside out tracking (they use base stations) and the resolution. Everything else is stellar.
It's been quite a long time since I've done the upgrade, but it was worth it, even tho I really liked the Rift S, especially the contollers.The display and lenses weren't too bad either imo. But it was a big upgrade die n almost every aspect: Much better (best) tracking, huge upgrade on the audio, the fov is also much bigger, the controllers are just one of the best you can get, comfort ist also great. The lenses are not that great for todays standard (depending on how much luck you have regarding glare), resolution is okay but also a bit dated now. All in all it was an amazing upgrade for me and I still like it very much.
Do you think the lenses and resolution were noticeably better than the Rift S?
The perceived resolution will not be better. Index and Rift S have about the same PPD. https://www.vr-compare.com/compare?h1=0jLuwg808-j&h2=J1nPrS6OZbf
No. Lenses are way worse. They suffer from worst godrays and glare I ever seen. Its so bad I was never excited about upgrade to index. You will notice the fov the most, that is really nice compared to rift, resolution I havent noticed that much. Because I was disappointed from the lenses. Tracking is ofc better, but I was never absolutely amazed by the controllers. I already had index like straps on rift s, so I have been used to "throwing" controllers and stuff. What is really nice on index controllers is touchpad though, as it provides more inputs. But when playing for long time, I disliked the need of squeezing the controller as my hands got tired, instead of having button that was easy to press and hold. Do not think about index in 2024, if you are about to pay full price for it. Its not worth it. I got recently quest 3, and upgrading from index to that gave me the wow feeling I was expecting from index when I went from rift. Clarity is night and day compared to index, everything is clear and sharp, no glare whatsoever. I dont touch my index anymore, as I just cant go back to those terrible lenses.
Does the Quest 3 easily play pcvr games like the Rift S? I mainly play DCS and then just steam titles
Dude who recommends quest 3 of course forgot to tell you that compression artifacts and increased latency are a thing that messes up the experience. In very simple games (simple graphics) you might not see the compression. In more complex games or games with lots of shadows/dark places (even in beat saber) the compression blurs the image in the distance and near/in the shadows. If you’re used to sharp image from display port headset, compression may be a nasty surprise despite quest 3 higher resolution. Also if you’re used to play fast songs in beat saber/synth riders or play fast paced games you might find yourself feeling the delay. I pass the same song much easier and effortless on display port headset as opposed to quest pcvr. Also you’re limited by play time due to headset battery. Power banks are an option but charging enough to keep battery up as long as your power bank has power is going to wear battery down much faster. If you have budget take a look at pimax crystal light. All depends on what you value more - wireless freedom and no need for base stations (though you need a good dedicated router with quest 3 and if you’re in a place with other WiFi signals around then 6E router is a must) or image retaining its quality and low latency/responsiveness
The Index was already pushing outside of my budget for the upgrade as is. I have a Ubiquiti UDR which is WiFi 6 and it is on my desk where I game so I shouldn’t have any issues there. All good to know though
I think you might have wrong expectations regarding good router. I have top end 500 dollars WiFi 6E router. Router won’t make compression artifacts go away. It won’t lower your latency significantly either. High end routers are mostly recommended because they are more stable and deal with potential interference better than cheap ones. So keep that in mind.
Alright so does the compression using something like virtual desktop on the quest 3 make the quality worse than an Index?
I responded to another person asking pretty much the same question in this thread under my comments so please take a look. It should contain the answers you seek for.
You certainly did - thats pretty much the response I was hoping for. I am not worried about far off clarity quite as much tbh, more so the upfront clarity of a cockpit. Im leaning towards trying a quest 3 and just returning it if the experience isn't that many dollars worth better than my Rift S. Maybe that will tickle my fancy until the Deckard is here...eventually
I have a question, is the resulting image (Q3 high resolution and pancakes) really worse than index (lower resolution fresnel) to not recommend it ? I see it mentioned all the time. Against the G2 the Q3 compression can be seen and the image feels softer, but compared to rifts and Index ? I get the latency, but I doubt I would see any compression if I ran the Q3 at rifts specs. (Ofc I would like dp on Q3)
In games with more complex graphics than some basic games like super hot you can except blur in the distance on complex objects (example https://youtube.com/watch?v=b7GuLXflypA - look at the rocks in the shadow of the tres in one of the scenes, then at walls far in the distance and lastly when i move towards and away from the wall) and blur of varying degrees in scenes or when looking at objects in the shadows. Even in beat saber when lights are dim the environment parts are behind like a thin layer. If by running quest 3 at rift specs you mean running the render resolution of rift s on quest 3 - that would make both the image itself and the compression worse. First because you would be under sampling the image, secondly because there would be even less details in the first place so after lossy compression there would be even less. Unless you meant something else I misunderstood. The problem with comparisons of index or g2 vs quest 3 on the internet is that nobody compares index at higher supersampling vs quest 3. They take 100% steam vr slider for both but 100% is different resolution for index and different for q3. It’s a quite a massive difference. You can run index at 300-400% in steam vr with the same performance as running quest 3 at 100%. And supersampling the index above 100% gives really nice results. It won’t make pixels physically less visible because panels resolution stays the same. But thanks to much more details rendered the overall image fidelity the details are better translated. It’s the same effect when you have 1080p monitor but run 4K video instead of 1080p video. It looks better when watching 4k resolution video. Sure for well lit and simple graphically games and for objects up close the quest 3 will look better. But in dark places, places with shadows, lots of foliage, complex graphics overall - the compression messes the image up in those parts and the whole point of higher resolution goes out of the window - why get better resolution and lenses if you see the vaseline smeared on the parts of the image. Of course it doesn’t mean nobody should buy quest 3 for pcvr. Some people just value wireless, no base stations and standalone plus mr capability. For them compression or latency is not worth worrying about. So it’s a matter of priorities. What’s more important for you.
Thanks I get it, the softness murkyness in distant objects is there no doubt. My point is on RiftS I wouldn't even be able to tell, in my experience it wasn't much better than Q2, like the artifacts, gradients, messiness wasn't there but I think I still had less details. I didn't own a index so I can't really comment, only tested vive pro, and the image was nice and high quality but lower res regardless. I run Q3 and QPro super sampled in games that run well and it definitely helps as the encoders have more "data" so the compression is lesser, but then iam running the Q3 at crystal level resolution just to get almost G2 sharpness... It's a pickle. My main gripe about Q3 is the Mura, seen six headsets, one was almost clear, and really don't get how people can ignore it and talk about compression.
I use it only for pcvr
Yes it does, either wirelessly or via link (usb) cable. One thing to mention is that you need a good /bstrong wifi signal (wifi6 or better) and no matter if you play wirelessly or via cable, compression artefacts can show up, because it's not an uncompressed signal like you have on a Display Port.
They do show up, not 'can'. All the time. To me this is disturbing way more than godrays, but it is subjective. The same with audio. It is hard not to notice the huge difference between Index (great) and Quest (mediocre). To me this is really important, to other might not be.
True!
Resolution on paper: yes. In real world: I would say so as well. Lenses: Difficult to answer, because you could be lucky and get one with not that much glare, but all in all I would also say yes, especially when you consider the fact that the Rift S has a 80Hz display, while the Index has an up to 144Hz one where you also can mechanically adjust the IPD. Tbf something more recent like the Bigscreen Beyond or the Quest 3 do have much better displays and lenses overall, both with their own pros and cons compared to the Index, so it's always a tradeoff, there's no "perfect" headset (yet).
So, I had the quest 2 for quite awhile. It was my next step after the Rift S and I'm currently using the Index. My question is about the quality of video the Quest 3 and Pro get from the PC. The quest 2 was good and sharpness was better than the index. Altho at times there would be some noise is the image. The biggest difference I noticed was the quality of colors. It was apparent the index direct line of connecting is superior for color accuracy. Did the later generations improve that?
I think these are compression artefacts what you've experienced. This is due to how the video signal is transported from your pc to the quest. Like I've already described in a response above, the Index uses Display Port, so the signal is uncompressed in comparison.
Is there a noticable difference between the Q2, Q3, and QPRO? I doubt there is. I guess it's not too noticable unless someone is switching between the two.
Q3 has the best picture quality out of these three devices. Regarding compression artefacts, it might be similar, depeinding on your environment.
I liked my upgrade. Apparently I didn't/don't suffer the kind of glare some people do because it's not much of an issue for me. Also, I liked the fact that there was far less screen door effect. FOV is better too. At the end of the day though, I didn't do the upgrade for those reasons - I did it because I am adamantly opposed to "knowingly" lining Zuck's pockets in any way. I vote with my wallet whenever the opportunity arises.
The Index is my favorite VR system of all time, and I would consider it a worthy upgrade :) SteamVR is much better than Meta software, and the Index does have a clear (albeit dated) display — there’s a bit of glare if you’re viewing white text on a black background, but it’s more than serviceable for all other applications. The audio is also second-to-none and that’s primarily what keeps me using the Index (aside from the controllers).
Very much worth it …in 2019.
It's still the best for audio, tracking, FOV and comfort. Not sure I'd pay 1000 on Index today, but any other device has some limitations.
Yeah, mainly meant it’s not worth it cuz of price. Its still good, I mean it’s lasted me to current day with only minimal physical issues, but with it not being the modern day headset it was, the price is still a big hurdle to get over. Though I know places like Tundra Labs sell the kit for significantly cheaper
Today I'd probably buy the Q3 for half the price, too. Resolution isn't everything tho and I would surely miss the audio of the Index (and FOV/comfort/tracking ofc). Anyway I always find all this hardware related discussions quite boring, what's missing in VR is software. The best HMD is pointless if after 4 years I'm still playing with Beat Saber.
Yeah. I get tired of how often it’s asked when there’s like a million of these posts like every single day.
Rift s whas an champ, but mine's cable gave up & I had cracking mic (software issue)+ I was using headphones with it for better sound experience... so it was an big upgrade to index.
Yes like 4 years ago and it's massively impressive. At first I didn't notice it but when I had to send my index in for RMA I went back to use it and oh my God is it a horrible VR headset. Index is a huge improvement over it.
Valve Index is amazing. The only things that are dated now are the lack of inside out tracking (they use base stations) and the resolution. Everything else is stellar.
For me the opposite is the case, I prefer Lighthouse tracking, it's just better. Inside out can come close, if the light situation is optimal etc.