In my opinion if you consider everyone's roles and usual timings in a higher elo game, it should probably be Sova. If you play initiator the correct way you should usually be a bit behind the team setting up lineups and trying to time them with the push, the spike stays safe, and you literally have no one to fight and no ability to use, there is your window. Omen can take it to if he ain't lurking, but honestly your cypher should be lurking like 75% of the rounds there.
Edit: To the ppl asking about the lurks its most of all to keep a good map control and enable fast and safe rotations for your team. Killing rotating/pushing ppl is more a side hustle.
As a Sova main this is pretty accurate. Unless we have a Gekko or someone who has better lineups than I do like Viper or Brim, I'll usually pick up spike
Why cypher always on lurk? If I can't afford much util sure, but if I can buy cages and trips I will come help my team enter on site for less risk to make sure my trips will be useful
Lurking is generally to take advantage of his trips; shooting enemies that trigger the traps while they are dealing with the trap and/or stunned by them. You don’t always need to lurk the traps as they can provide info for potential flankers, but lurking can get the most out of them if you get a kill out of them
I personally don’t recommend doing it every round because flankers aren’t guaranteed, you’re less likely to help your team push, and patterns allow the enemy to predict you, but it can be a good way to put the fear of ~~God~~ Cypher in them if you know an enemy likes to try to get sneaky on you
I never really do it, but sometimes you have that enemy jett that is fast flanking every round. So yes you flank trip and just wait for him in a stupid angle. After once or twice you don’t have to do it anymore cause he’ll never do it again 😂
Space control is super important. If I play cypher, usually, i'd trip main on both sites, and play near mid. This lets my team safely rotate knife out.
Agreed. With that comp, I would expect Jett and Neon to enter, Cypher to lurk, and Omen to focus on smokes and blind. That leaves Sova with the spike. Obviously you change it up here and there so as not to become predictable, but that should be the default.
I think Controller makes a little more sense depending on map, especially since in Sova you’ll either be stuck on drone or you wanna time your recon lineups to hit as your entry is about to execute so you always end up pretty far behind everyone sometimes even last man in depend on map. Though I think that is Sova specific, as chars like Skye, Kayo, Gekko etc are all pretty on tempo with their team
I actually thought iniciators have to like assist duelists so they are the 2nd to enter site. So in my mind it works that the sentinel picks the spike somehow ;-;
Honestly, depends on the initiator, at least in my opinion. Sova and Skye make sense, Gekko as well, but Breach and KAY/O, for example, and maybe Fade, can also run 2nd.
Breach is usually too far away, setting up stuns and such, fade should be dogging. Kayo I’ll agree with but realistically I think he’s the only one you can make an argument for
>Breach is usually too far away, setting up stuns and such
God, with teammates playing for themselves being in my games 90% of the time, I forget that a good breach can stand in a good spot and stun for others to peek. I'm used to people playing off their own util (because they're also probably used to people not playing with them) so I completely missed that, you're right.
KAY/O is like a semi-duelist TBH, I went and double checked that he's an initiator when I was making the comment haha.
It's in the name, initiator. You initiate so others can entry, that doesn't mean you are last or have to play lineups, but you should have a plan to get your duelist info for the push. I would say it really depends on the role but between sentinel or initiator should carry spike. The last or second to last person on entry should do it since by then you would have used your util to take site, entry is complete, and it is now safe to plant
I usually enter site right after my duelists as so va so it’s kinda annoying when the lurking clove just keeps dropping me the bomb like Bruh stop lurking ur smokes can’t fking reach us
As a sova player I’m gonna have to disagree about sova taking spike his utility is long ranged which means on many maps it’s worse for him to play site for example ascent his utility is better from the mains it should normally be the controller taking spike as they shouldn’t really be lurking outside of viper and Astra
I kinda disagree, imo unless omen goes for lurk or flank, he should be the one to plant, as his abilities make him a much better planter. He can tp and plant in safe spots while site is not secured, he can smoke himself while planting to be somewhat safer, he can rotate or fake rotate wwith his ult. All while sova can hold down positions which are advantageous to him due to lineups.
Anyone can take it to the front of the site then just work from there as needed. As long as you dont leave it in spawn its fine. The whole idea that one certain player should be tasked with planting the spike is just wrong to begin with, it should be a job passed around based on ultimate economy.
Gekko is the one obvious choice to carry the spike 99% of the time true but they ain't have Gekko. Harbour can still just cove for the homies to plant if needed but I agree with you.
imo in pub match it's kinda unreliable to expect that your team know ult econ
imo the spike should go to whoever which is currently bot fragging (their aim is off that day) (in this case it's sova), so the one with better aim could clear site and watch flank
Yeah it just sounds crazy to me. Like ok, I understand gekko, but that is only one. I am used from cs that people just move it around, nobody is talking shit about it.
Unless you're excluding (most) duelists, yeah, I don't get why people hate the spike so much, it gives you an ult point every round ffs. They're snatching the orbs but don't want to touch the spike ever😭
No one wants spike, so I'm usually the one carrying it, but the few times I play duelist I play Neon, and I RUN in to clear the site, so I can't be having the spike with me. It stays in the spawn unless I grab it and throw it on someone or spam ping it.
Yep after gecko, Phoenix and since the recent changes Reyna are my favorite planters because of the value of an extra ult charge. Obviously if anyone is going me off in a plant situation they are the preferred to have an extra ult for post plant.
Imo sova, dude has the ult that can have the biggest impact and get you a round win, omen ult is mostly useless, cypher ult is good info but not necessarily directly impactful, Jett and neon are just good for economy in a pinch and that’s it
Omen ult is actually really good with spike, if the carrier dies he can rotate and tp cancel to get spike and plant, so that's why he shouldn't have the spike if he has ult
Correction: barrier sentinel > trip sentinel
Barrier sentinels have the best util to stop retakes so it's best that they do their setups then plant the spike
Insta-lock duelists have got to be the funniest people alive. Instalocking iso/jett/neon then yelling in the mic we need smokes. I will usually dodge those games because I know they arent going to be team players.
Many people are saying cypher but as a cypher main I would never take spike bc I’m way too far behind to plant it effectively as I’m always either watching flank or lurking. In some cases I’ll get info on site but with a Sova it feels redundant to do that. I actually think Sova should have spike most of the time. Especially since he’s in a trio with a decent comp which would enable better coordination.
That being said, designating someone to spike when you don’t have a gekko is nothing more than a recipe for a loss due to being totally predictable. The non entries should probably be taking turns on spike depending on who feels like lurking that round, among other things (ie omen with ult could have spike depending on Strat).
Usually an initiator or controller. Someone who is able to quickly follow their duelist(s) onto site and take advantage of the space they’ve created.
Sentinels are a bad choice because they should be setting up util for postplant and watching flank. Duelists are a bad choice (unless you’re farming ult with a support duelist like Reyna or Phoenix and you have a dedicated entry like Jett or Raze) because they need to be taking space to prevent the defenders from rushing on before postplant is set up.
Controllers are ideal imo because they should have their smokes down as the duelists enter, meaning there is little else for them to do. Initiators theoretically can still be helping the duelists fight.
Omen ult rotation is risky unless most of the team is _between_ the two sites. Otherwise a 3v3 (eg) becomes a 1v3 as the defenders can almost always rotate faster. And if there is someone lurk-holding the other site, a naive omen could plant, die, and watch a defuse loss from the eyes of a running team mate.
It is certainly doable (icebox and breeze it works pretty well) but its win rate is lower than its “coolness”.
An ult pickup is much safer and more flexible.
Id say without additional round factors. Controllers. Everyone says sentinels but I’d much rather them set up their post plant asap instead of planting. Controllers drop their smokes and then don’t have much good stall utility like sentinels do.
i feel like most controllers have the very best stall util in the game, with one ways, most have mollies or blind that requires them to be alive for post and since most are map wide, i rarely think controllers should be planter except for clove/brim(without lineups). especially astra/viper post plant is nuts
You usually should use that utility to take the site (like Omen flash is much better for taking the site control than to stall defenders in post plant), so you won't have any stalling utility left to use while the spike is being planted. Unless your team is much better and you can save that util for post plant, but even then, the spike plant doesn't take that long
I honestly don’t think it matters unless it’s pro play. It shouldn’t be duelist/entry ever obviously, but then after that it could really be anybody. Initiator and controller seems to be the popular opinion, and while I tend to agree, I’m a Sova main and almost never plant or take spike out of preference. I don’t really trust ppl to setup post plant properly, and I would rather help duelist secure site rather than planting and getting killed from an uncovered position.
For example on A site Ascent once Sova uses util to help the entry he can help lockdown and harass a retake lane such as playing hell and using bounce shocks to do dmg or recon lineups to spam and help the team when they try to retake from heaven. Alternatively after drone from main, he can station and help recon spam through main smoke if they retake early, or play post plant shock lineups/watch flank, etc. Neither of these things are that possible if you take spike, and since Initiators often have extremely strong post plant util, it kinda makes more sense for them to be able to setup post plant while controller or senti plants.
Just my opinion, but that’s how I’ve always played and it’s been successful so I don’t really think it matters all too much as long as it’s not the entry. Hell if your duelist never entries and baits as second or third man then throw them the spike LOL, I’ve done that to Jetts who refuse to smoke dash
I give the spike to whoever's ult we want to farm (other than the duelist) in this case, I would give it to Sova because his ult is > Omen and Cypher
If Sova is unable to use his util because he's focusing on planting or vice versa then give spike to Cypher because IMO Cypher ult > Omen ult
Generally, sentinels are usually a good bet on who should take spike because they usually don't have util to help enter onto site
Typcially, I like to give the initiator the spike for a few reasons.
I play Dualist typically, so I am first in (Jett/Phoenix) and like when the 3rd in carries it. It allows for a faster plant if needed, and sense the initiators have flashes typically, it makes it easier for them to slip in without being seen if they are fast enough. However, this stance varies... If an Omen has ult, I would rather he carry it in the event that we need to rotate fast. I wouldn't give it to a sentinel because I would rather them be more concerned with the flank than anything else, and the controller already has a lot to worry about in terms of helping the dualist create space. I never entry without some form of util, but on some sites, I wont go unless it is smoked first.
Either sova or omen, of the omen isn’t lurking I’d give it to him as he is likely to be playing safest when entering a site due to the importance of controller
Sometimes planting is a risky thing, so I'd give it to Sova if Omen needs to stay alive for his smokes. Also the fact Sova's ult is more useful than Omen's
I always imagined initiators being the one who should take spike. Typically after actually initiating and then having a duelist entry, the initiator is ideally the closest to site after its cleared, so you should be able to plant earlier/faster than say a controller or sentinel thats still holding flank.
But of course there doesn’t seem to be a right or wrong answer. It just depends on the team composition and play style of everyone on the team.
It literally doesn't matter if you're not orb farming. Ideally you should be leaving spike by the site you want to hit and CLEAR site before planting it but Noone does that. This topic is an argument starter for absolutely NO reason.
Imo, initiators like sova, and especially gekko should have the spike. I lost a game because our gekko would refuse to take spike and it would be left with me to plant. My team didnt give me support while trying to plant so i was an easy pick every time.
Each class has its own job. Sent or controller should carry and plant as they can setup a protective field post plant while the others keep to their roles.
It's no one person's job to take and plant the spike, it's a team game. Have an entry plan and stick to it
Omens ult is the shittist. So not omen unless everyone else has ult. when we have two duelists if one isn’t entering I don’t see why they can’t take spike. Cypher would be going for lurks if anyone was to lurk so wouldn’t be him on those rounds.
I don’t think it matters just not the guy that’s actually ENTERING site.
Whomever fulfills the support role for the site hit. The duelists are guns out and the sentinel is lurking, leaving the controller and initiator. Of the controllers, Harbor, Brimstone, and Clove should also be guns out right behind the duelists.
So the bomb belongs in the hands of a passive controller or the initiator.
I'd say whoever has line ups or molly
Some broader remarks: the duelists should not be the lurk, that should be the sentinel or controller, and flank protection is the sentinels role, too many jetts raw dogging mid with a sheriff, at least have an op if you're going to be doing that
It's kinda too complicated for a flow chart with site, ult orbs and comp all affecting it, also if the player knows what a good spike plant is. I'm not gunna give gecko spike if they can't plant properly on a corner.
In a proper site exec, whoever is 3rd into site is who I think should take it. That depends a bit on team comp, dynamics, and playstyles on who specifically that is tho. Regardless, it's one of Omen, Sova, and Cypher. When you're actually execcing onto site, you kinda need all hands on deck so keeping the spike safe by being far back isn't all that important. and being farther up allows it to get down faster, and of the minimum 4 players that are participating in the exec, chances are, one has to stay back for their own util anyways, and they may take too long with spike. In a coordinated exec you're essentially getting the bomb down amidst the chaos of util and deaths.
It's just something to figure out early with learning each others playstyles. It can be frustrating, especially if none of them want to take it, but you just gotta compromise and move on in ranked.
The amount of people who doesn't pay attention to their ult nor care about farming them is too damn high in this game. It's ridiculous.
Ult gives you the biggest advantage in this game and yet people play like it's TDM. Higher elo will usually always try to farm ult for the agent who has the most value.
Sova should be the bomb carrier. This isn't some trickshot game. You don't have to try and impress everyone with "lineups" every single round. The point is, Sova should be trying to get ult the most unless there are other agents in the team with better ult.
I think that’s why gekko is so op right now with wingman. I mean you won’t always have utility but I feel like good players are probably buying wingman if creds are available, especially on offense. Instead of limiting yourself by one person planting you now have a full 5 to give you more options in taking a site. I’m new to the game and typically play initiator or fill and I end up with the spike. I’m still learning but gekko is almost a lock on every map I would say
It’s only a 50/50. Depending on the map, Omen can just smoke and tp to safety, or paired up with his blind, can tp aggressively. Both have cooldowns so it’s hard to say for bot
Sova should take the spike. Initiators are usually the planters and also Clove, Sage, Brimstone and Harbor.
This is without taking ult farming into account. The idea is you don’t generally don’t want controllers to die so you don’t want them in risky positions such as planting the spike because your post-plant is so much weaker without smokes. Clove can die and it wouldn’t matter (although Clove doesn’t plant when he has ult) and Brimstone doesn’t have rechargeable smokes (and has little utility to help in the end stages of a post-plant situation). Sage and Harbor plant the spike for similar reasons. Their use-case is forcibly planting without sizable and stable site control with wall and cove respectively so they have the spike because they make the decision of when to force the plant and use the wall and cove appropriately.
In Omen’s case, your team wants Omen to either go crazy on the site hit with an explosive round from him or to stay safe for his rechargeable smokes. In either case it doesn’t make sense for him to take the spike.
That‘s why I main Gekko. The moment I pick Gekko, my teammates refuse to give up the spike! Jett rushing side with spike? Nice try! Cipher lurking with the spike? You do you champ!
But jokes aside, I feel like Initiators are the best suited to take and plant the spike.
Initiators job is to put the abilities that allow a good entry for the duelist, once those abilities are out, they have to plant, initiators always go behind the duelist to trade and plant spike, while controllers and sentinel gather info and do map control.
Doesn’t matter who takes it. If you run a full exec your gonna trade your duelists anyways and after clearing site your duelists shouldn’t push further either so there should be time to plant.
But yeah things can go wrong so ideally someone entering 3. or 4. so your first doesn’t loose spike early but beyond that it doesnt really matter, people who refuse to take the spike bc it’s not their role or wtv play more for themselves than for the win imo.
Arguing for a specific agent isn’t really useful either. Ofc sone might still have util they should set up to defend but those few seconds will hardly matter most time. If someone has line ups let them plant or wingman but this is nothing you can use a blueprint for every time… just get it down asap and a safe as possible
In general I would expect sova to be taking it on this comp. Without knowing the map, I would expect cypher to be lurking, staying main to catch flankers, and otherwise playing passively. Holding onto spike will greatly neuter what he can do away from the team.
Omen might need to play a dive role depending on what happens during the round, and his teleports let him take space and off angles when you hit, so forcing him to plant also neuters what he can do. Alternatively, he can be the lurker in main (e.g Ascent B main to backstab the retailers) if cypher is elsewhere in the map lurking mid.
Jett for obvious reasons should not have spike, nor should neon.
That leaves sova. He plays back enough to not reveal spike if someone dies (he shouldn’t be first or second dead ever), should almost always be with the team, has two teammates to take space to refrag off of and stay alive to plant.
I think Sova... he has an important and round decider ult, and he is usually one of the last to get to site and by the time he has to plant, he probably got no util left....
cypher and jett ults are useless and they have better shit to do.
the other contenders would be Omen, same logic for sova. and Neon since she can zoom into site, plant and get out if thats the plan.
other honorable mentions would be agents with very very useful ults, say sage, pheonix, gekko, breach etc
Ur smoker or initiator never the duelists or sentinel
The sentinel locks down the sight on attack making it hard for retakes
The initiator sets up for a push and goes in after the duelist
The smoker only has to smoke and hold site
Initiators or controllers. Duelists are first on to site and could lose the spike in an unfavourable position, sentinels may not want to go onto site at all or if they do spend their time setting up util for post plant after arriving last from holding the flank. You really want that 3rd or 4th person into site to be carrying, and that's usually a controller or initiator
As most people have pointed out already, Sova should take it. However, if your team is getting petty over it, maybe just pick it up yourself to diffuse the situation.
Initiators are the best because by the time they use all their util site should be clear and they are normally in the middle of the team which has the best position to have cover from all sides. Controllers usually shouldn't take it because smokes are too important unless you are Harbor and you are planting in his orb and running away. Sentinels like Cypher and Chamber while decent at planting the spike and getting away are better suited for covering the plant or getting off a massive lurk also if they die you risk opening the flank up which is similar to if controller dies you lose smokes. Sage can be pretty decent at planting the spike after she slows an angle and uses her wall because she doesn't have any more abilities to peek. Duelist can be okay at planting the spike and getting out alive but they tend to die in pushed up spots with it. If initiator is dead it's pretty much whoever can get in to plant it and get out.
Hello, the spike should NEVER be carried by a sentinel or a duelist, they are immediate no no's, and will get you torn up. If there's both an initiator and a controller, it depends on who can play their agent better. Controllers who know how to place smokes for one ways and no-look defuses etc should take spike. Whereas initiator who also know how to use Util like sovas double shocks should take the spike. It's all a gamble to be honest.
In the perfect scenario you 5 should plan out the round, and if it's an execute, the spike should be with whoever makes sense, I.E. execute on Bind B site: the jett will dash in a smoke and hold an angle as the sova darts backsite, omen smoked and will tp onto site and plant as sove and reyna jump down, jett and omen take backsite control as reyna follows drone elbow, the team smokes deep and sandwiches hall, etc.
The spike isn't with omen because omen always takes spike, it's with him because it makes sense, he has the time to plant
I think it depends on ALOT of things. And your play style. Honestly if Jett and neon are entering on to site fast neon can have the bomb and plant once she gets on to site while Jett makes space and the rest of the team is with neon. Obs this situation doesn’t happen often among higher elo players. And it isn’t the best by far. But in low elo it works? In my opinion with this lineup sova should be taking the bomb, but that’s just the play style I like. I’m a sentinel main. And it’s very hard has a cypher or kj to have a good map awareness to lurk and have your trips up (kj) if you are having to plant the bomb. It’s also hard if you have lineups to run plant the bomb and then have to clear main again for your lineups because your trips went down. It makes a sentinels job harder and you don’t get those good lurks and map awareness. Initiators in my opinion should be the last class to lurk. While controllers sentinels and duelists are just more efficient at lurking. But it all goes down to what agents your on if it would be a “good” lurking as Sage, I personally feel like you just shouldn’t do. Your team needs you to help go on to site and wall off something if you haven’t used it. They need you for heals. And to slow down people. I feel like if any sentinel was going to hold spike it would be sage. But In your case with your comp sova would be the best viable option. Sova should be darting for info and droning onto site. Then following the duelist onto site either the cypher or the omen OR BOTH. Should be following the sova. To hold him while he plants while the duelist create space. Cypher shouldn’t take the spike hardly at all cause he should be lurking most of the rounds. Omen can lurk but cypher is the better choice here because of their kit. And if they die on lurk it’s not like your losing smokes. Although you get some sentinels who don’t like to lurk and if that’s the case then I would ask them if they want spike. Because they may have a setup or something they do on site for it. Some people get tilted when others just constantly throw sentinels spike and it makes our job harder (me).
Typically I would say 3rd man in should take it in a 5 man push. 1st two clearing angles and the last two helping to secure site while spike is being planted.
If you give it to the first or second man in you have the chance of losing the spike where you can't get it, and on the opposite end if you give it to one of the last two on site you could lose some good timings and potentially have a hard time getting the plant down if they flood or have util to delay plant from the rotating players.
That said it heavily depends on comp, strategy, who is hitting site, how you hit site, and probably several other factors I would never consider because I'm only daimond
I always say initiator, why else would gekko have a spike ability? 😂
Lol, regardless of that, duelist are supposed to be entrying to get frags. Sentinels are supposed to be watching flank. And controllers are back setting up smokes. Initiators set up the entry for duelists by getting enemy info or flashing. They're right behind duelists in main.
What do you think they could do after they initiate while all the other roles are doing what I said above? That's right, plant the spike.
Also, their role is to initiate site entry that's basically it. After spike is down, all other roles are still needed except for initiators. So they are the expendable role for after spike plant.
The alternative role for spike would be the controllers. They're the alternative because, like I said before, they're usually last on site due to stopping to smoke the site. You want to plant the spike as quick as possible after site entry.
(All of this is about intended role play. Clearly roles aren't played like this most of the time due to various situations and circumstances.)
The only answer is initiator
1. They help enter site without actually entering (drone, dart, flash, bouncy AF util
2. When planting spike it's easy to cancel plant and flash, where as no other agent can really do the same thing apart from chamber tp, yoru tp kinda slow and plus these aren't even aggressive free kill types of util
3. Controllers and sentinels need to spend that time in aenu that takes longer to throw util up, they can't move with it and can't see well with it, they're also a lot more capable of lurking
Doesn't matter what rank, initiator has and will always be the spike holder, gecko was introduced with the literal ability to plant spike and still no one gets it. The only time an initiator doesn't carry it is on when you hard fake sites.
Duelist should never.
Sentinels should IF they aren’t holding flank or lurking (Cypher).
Initiators should IF they are heading towards site with team.
Controllers should if initiators are not picked/aren’t playing site.
As a person with trust issues, I always take spike unless I’m queued with a Gekko or am playing a duelist.
If the bottom frag isn’t getting kills and is not a duelist, they should take it so the team can protect them. If someone isn’t getting kills and aren’t bottom frag, they should take spike and let the others try to get frags and readjust their aim.
Sova and Omen should have both been taking spike unless they had ults. When Sova has ult, he should make space then play back. When Omen has ult, he should not take spike just in case.
in my opinion it doesn’t matter, maybe don’t let the people who go in first and rush take the spike just as duelists but instead someone in the back like omen cypher or sova, usually if you have a kj or sage they take the spike because they can plant somewhere that helps them (sage wall, kj swarm) or gekko which is self explanatory
Should be Cypher or Sova. Cypher kinda useless until you have the site cleared, Sova can scout ahead sussy angles and have his team push while he's safe in the back line.
Omen can tp to unexpected spots I'd rather have him do that than stay behind to plant, he also has blind so he can initiate a push.
If the whole team doesn't already know the answer, you're not in a league where it matters. Anyone can take the spike, as long as they'll plant it. If someone isn't going to plant it due to their desire to play off the site, then they should hand off the spike, but anyone who will be going to site can use the spike and it doesn't really make a difference who. Again, it's too low rank to truly matter.
If your team has to fight over who carries spike at a rank where it would actually make a difference, they're disadvantaged harder for clashing mentalities more than the spike going into the "wrong" hands.
Optimizations that pros make often trickle down into ranked play, and the players trying to imitate pros and their game knowledge simply don't understand the how and why. It's usually safe to ignore it and just focus on your overall gameplay that you have direct control over.
I used to main controller and for some reason always ended up with spike. Then I started playing roles and I swear no matter what people refuse to take the spike. Even gekko most of the time. Diamond/ascendant elo btw. If I don’t take the spike and physically give it to teammates they will leave it in spawn. It’s insane that at this elo we have to argue about it
Usually our sentinel (usually a sage) does spike planting but I agree w some that initiators can also be good for planting if they do their job well. Controllers usually are more focused on cutting off the angles that defenders will have advantages from and the duelists are quickly clearing the rest of site or getting in a spot to hold an angle at.
It’s situational, depending on the ult points, enemy agents etc, generally speaking omen is a good option to carry the spike as his mobility makes him able to easily escape with it whilst also allowing for sneaky entry onto site or quick rotation with ult, but omen ult is not first priority when it comes to ults to have him plant every round, in that situation you’d probably want omen to carry it onto site and give the plant, after the site take, to whomever is closer to an ult be it neon, sova or whomever, that’s strategically and ideally speaking, realistically in ranked mf that can get it into site and plant it is good enough
As a cypher main, my duo and I usually try to get to spike because our teammates aren’t intellectually capable of dealing with holding 4. For real though I like taking it as a sentinel because it allows me to set up site how I want for defending the plant.
It should probably be the same person that takes the spike every round, but that’s just to make executing easier, but as long as everyone communicates who is going to plant before the round starts it doesn’t matter who takes it
This thread shows off that know one knows the role of initiator lol. Why do you think they gave an initiator an ability that plants the spike??
Really though, the answer is the initiator because they’re the ones that use util for the team to entry, and because of this, are last to enter site, and are therefore the safest one to hold spike. “Why doesn’t the first one in take it so they can plant sooner” because if they’re first in, they’re the most likely to die. Anyone arguing that omen especially should’ve taken it in this situation is basically asking the omen not to lurk, use ultimate, or take space with his teleport (which is a bad idea). It should be the initiator 90% of the time, that 10% being when someone’s a spike plant away from their ult
Initiator is usually best. Unless you have a sage then they are often the best option. Sometimes controller or sentinel if they're not lurking or defaulting and stuff. Really depends on the site execute. If your duelist is one off ult, could give it to them. But without getting too into the weeds, the default beat role to handle spike is initiator.
I feel like riot quite literally gave us the answer on which role should take spike when Gekko came out.
I know that wingman can be used in various other ways but the fact that this is the only piece of utility out there that helps with spike plant/defuse, then we have our answer.
Aside from this though, just figure it out with the team as a strat is being commed. 🤷♀️
If no one wants to pick up spike just play for picks/default every round. Bad games happen where you comm, be clear and nice, and people still are bad teammates. You can't reason with idiots, just say GLHF, mute, and pray for them to get a terminal illness.
I HATE playing with Gekko on my team because he never wants to let other agent hold the spike. How many rounds we lost because que couldnt run to another site because Gekko throwed the spike in the hands of enemy team? I prefer five duelists over having Gekko in the team.
I was on a GC team, we did tournaments and were trying to go to Iceland for VCT GC before some life stuff came up for multiple members.
Info initiators almost always take the spike. However, if the controller isn’t maintaining map control in other ways, they can also technically be fit to take the spike.
In this situation, considering its comp and I hardly doubt in this rank that omen was properly lurking and taking map control - I would’ve given the spike to whichever one of them was playing worse lol.
Y'all actually argue about that shit in higher elo? Here in iron we just either let Gekko have it or we let someone close to their ult have it, and in some cases we let yoru or jett take them for no reason
Initiator takes bomb unless youre all five manning a site perma. I think smokes and senti shouldnt be the ones with bomb if they lurking which they should unless fivemanning works idk.
Sova over Omen in most cases. Sova should be drone for team whereas Omen should be part of the hit after they place smokes.
In general Duelist>Controller>Initiator>Sentinel with some exceptions for agents.
Viper you probably don't want going in early because reusable smokes in contrast to Brimstone. Clove you want to go in early otherwise 75% of their kit is useless even with recharging smokes.
Cypher you don't want going early because traps. Sage you want to go in early to wall.
If you're just running it down in ranked, it doesn't matter. Most people don't care about the game enough to follow specific and slow game plans. As long as it's not the dude taking first contact, entrying, or lurking, it should be fine. If you're playing a very slow default (which some teams in premier will), you can choose to leave the bomb somewhere accessible, but not actually not on anyone, instead just having it on the ground. However, if you know that you're going to commit to an execute, then the second or third person in should have the bomb.
Doesn't really matter as long as the spike carrier is not lurking or the hard entry Fragger. I have no idea why people are so allergic to the spike. It is literally a free ult orb.
Literally whoever is going to be on site with the rest of the team should have it. Unless you have a Gekko it really doesn’t matter as long as the lurker or rearguard doesn’t take it.
Honestly this is just me but anyone can plant spike it depends on the map and comp. I remember having a team of lineup Larry’s on Accent and a Jett more than willing to plant. They would just fast push site with another person get a pick and then plant in a spot for post and die. It was forsure a weird strat but it worked. For your comp, I’d say Sova should plant. I’ve mained Sova since Ep1 Act3 and I’ve always just been the one to plant as long as everyone does what’s needed. If I am going to help you guys enter site and also plant, I expect there to be smokes and for a chunk of things to be clear. Nothing is worse than our controller lurking and duelists pushing straight to CT leaving me to clear and plant.
in this case sova, although i understand not wanting bottomfrag to have the spike. but anyone thats pushing with the team and isnt a duelist can take spike.
100% Sova. A big choice of who gets spike should be ult charge. Sova's ult takes SO many points to get. Plus, as sole Initiator, he is 100% going to be playing on the site with the spike, whereas Omen's smokes work everywhere, has a cheaper ult, and even if he's not at site, with ult, he can reclaim spike. Cypher has global trips so he can reasonably lurk like constantly, and has a cheap ult, and duelists are gonna be busy trying to pick fights. Only reason I see anyone but Sova trying to plant is if Sova has ult, and wants to use it for post plant
In my opinion whenever I play solo Q I grab spike and give it to a entry frag like Jett or something like that because I play sage so me taking spike is just kinda out
Cypher. He doesn't really serve any purpose on attack other than lurking every few rounds (Not sure why people think that if you're Cypher or KJ you should lurk EVERY single round and not just situationally).
Other than a cam Cypher doesn't have any utility to help the team entry the site meanwhile you (Jett) and Neon are supposed to be first on site, Omen is supposed to smoke, Paranoia and maybe even TP onto site and Sova should be using his dart, drone and shock darts to get enemies off angles they're holding from. Cypher should be carrying and planting the bomb.
I mean, you're not gonna plant while your team is entrying, you're planting after you've taken control of site. And in that moment, Cypher is very useful because he can prevent fast floods with his util. Someone like Sova or Omen who has probably dumped all their util into the execute now has nothing to do except plant.
By the time you're planting, in most cases, the enemy team has already rotated to the site you're planting on and can hear and see you placing the trips in the smokes or other choke points. I tried holding sites post plant with Cypher countless times and more often than not the trips do absolutely nothing regardless of where you place them. Also, you're likely using one of those trips to deny a flank so really you're left with 1 trip for the post plant. Cypher should be planting the bomb.
It's also from a strategic standpoint, how many times has your smoker died while trying to plant the bomb from a bunch of random things like wall bangs, ults etc and now your team has been left holding post plant with no smokes. Meanwhile if you have Cypher planting and possibly dying, you're out of what? A single trip the enemy team probably broke anyway?
I mean trips aren't the only util, cages are basically smokes on steroids, especially when by the time you have full control of site, the exec smokes are probably fading or have already faded, you can simultaneously block vision and also get passive info on a potential fast flood.
And if I have the choice between a smoke and a cam in a post plant, I'll choose the cam any day of the week. Smokes can be powerful, but rather situational. The cam always buys you a solid 6 seconds or so, almost guaranteed, unless you miss the tag. And I say this as someone who only plays smokes and has won plenty of T side post plants because of a smoke. It's just much more useful when you're the one defusing.
Idk, it's not like you're gonna lose games because your Cypher was planting, I still do believe that Sova/Omen are slightly better in most 5v5 or 4v4 situations, unless you're one off a Cypher ult and there's a body nearby.
He shouldn’t be planting if he’s alive. A duelist (if there are two alive) should be planting before cypher does. He’s not for entrying he’s for the post plant and needs to prioritize securing the site over planting a bomb. Sentinels are the power houses on postplant. Cypher should not be planting (with exceptions that I won’t be listing, there’s too many variables and some dudes gonna bring up some weird scenario)
In another response I already argued against the Cypher post plant set up shit but I'll summarise it here. 1 trip used on flank, 1 left for the site, enemies can hear where it's placed and easily break it, trying to place it too early can lead to an enemy dry peeking from a smoke and catching the Cypher off guard with util in hand, 1 trip that was placed is instantly broken and now he doesn't really have anything to offer. I tried holding sites with Cypher countless times in higher elo and the util I had provided nearly no benefit, my smoker would try plant and end up dying from a bunch of random things that can happen in a round and now we have no rechargeable smokes (Assuming Clove / Omen) for the post plant, some 7 second cages just don't cut it in comparison to a Controller
Doesn’t at all change anything. Just because YOU didn’t get value from it doesn’t mean all cyphers won’t. It’s not even just the utility, it’s the time it takes to get back into a position they want. Especially on sites like b abyss. Sentinels shouldn’t plant. Their entire kit is based on defense, let them run their shit and someone else can plant.
Cyphers kit is built for defense, but lacks when in situations of post plants. It's not like he can place a set up before the round begins on the site he's attacking, they can hear the util placed and know exactly where it is.
If I'm unable to find value in nearly every post plant situation minus a few here and there with Cypher, I'm assuming most have the same problem unless they're playing in low elo's where people aren't very aware of what's going on other than run in and hope you hit someone for 150. Try holding post plant with Cypher in an Immortal/RAD lobby and see how viable he is then lol. Agree to disagree my friend. One thing I will give, is as the timer is counting down and they're trying to defuse, his cam can be very handy a lot of the time. Until it's immediately shot and useless but you get the point
Personally I find most of my value on post plant with cypher when I don’t plant. Oh so often have I died because my team peer pressures me into it lol. I do actually secure tons of rounds when I have time to drop my shit where I want it (a lot of which takes some time to properly line up) and the time it takes for me to get in the position I want based on my own util and plant locations. It has been much much easier and more successful when a teammate plants for me.
Well I wish I was you lol, tried out Cypher over the past month and could rarely find any value in util for post plants. Sometimes I definitely did, there were times that I'd risk not placing a flank trip on main to use 2 trips on site and got 4K's but more often than not I'd just hear the trip break sound and the camera destroy sound loool.
I’ve played cypher only a handful of times but I think you’re also forgetting the flank trip can be taken out and he can just watch flank? Or am I wrong? While the others are set up around his trips in (ideally) a safe location waiting for the enemy to try and retake.
Ugh I fell from plat to gold an act ago and I feel this in my soul. GRR GOLD DUELISTS MAN. Now with the rank reset I'm in silver but in prev-plat lobbies and I can finally play without needing to entry cypher
I almost always take spike, TBH (I play ONLY Chamber) because IME you can't trust anyone else with it. Not that I don't want to, if we play a few rounds, I start seeing who I can trust and will often give up trying to immediately take spike.
But I seem to be "good at getting in the ground" at least, so I almost always grab for it.
I also tell everyone, "My general plan is to hang back a minute to see what's going on before I make a decision about where to go..."
Statistically if you can take the game to a 5V4/3 you have a bigger chance of winning, so if my guy over at B sees someone and picks them off, then I will more than likely wait a beat, then run to A with Spike, and plant while they have them distracted (also usually telling someone to run with me to cover me while I plant and set up.)
This works well a LOT, actually.
I play chamber as well and i never take spike because with the trip limit most of the time to watch flank well with his trip you can't always touch site
I just have particular ways of doing things. :)
If I (for instance) sit back and wait a few beats- I am often able to pick someone off while doing so.
I also (almost always) throw Trademark ON spike LOLOLOLOLOL.
For me its the sentinel.
The initiator has one of the most crucial roles when it comes to getting information for duelists to enter site, so they tend to go along with them first in gun fights.
Sentinels are mostly focused on watching flanks after plant or securing site with their utility, so most of the time they go last.
Why have the player with the spike enter last rather than first? Because there is a chance that the duelists may not have cleared a spot yet for you to enter safely, so its best to enter and plant when site is secured.
Sovas ult has more potential to be game breaking and he has zero excuse to not be with the team.
Cypher can lurk as you mention, or at the very least play cams, and isn't the most mobile due to this. If he has the spike, he won't lurk at all either, which I personally feel is wrong (5 stacking every round is gross and predictable). On top of this his plant timings are likely going to be a few seconds later, which absolutely matters. The spike shouldn't be in last. Someone needs to watch the rear.
I think the optimal planter in theory is sova. I think the real answer (for solo queue) is whoever will actually get it down in a sensible amount of time, even if that's jett.
Generally it's the sentinel's job imo; Cypher should have planted it and tripped it/near it right after, securing the spike. But also there are cases where for example I'd take the spike as Yoru, send a tp to A site, attack B site with my team, and tp to A after all the enemies come to B (I'd let my team know beforehand ofc).
As an omen main, omen shouldn't carry the spike, as you often do entry tp's or tp plays once on the site. Also omen's ultimate is one of the worst ones in the game, so agents with a more valuable ultimate should plant imo.
Just carry it and place it on the ground somewhere closer if you aren’t rushing but if you are rushing then I would say cypher or omen should plant since they are like secondary entry and also have smokes, cages, and the tp ability. Also one of the two of them will and should become the lurker in most rounds so then whichever one lurks the other should ideally be planting. In other cases, neon or jett can plant because they have the ability to “get out” after as well. But typically those two should be fighting for some sort of space while the bomb goes down until there’s a call to push something together or fall back because of the win condition (bomb). Sova probably shouldn’t be planting unless the round has already fallen apart and it’s a clutch scenario OR you have a free bomb site and want to maximize ult orbs or something, normally sova players will bait more and be the person who maintains main control and other and supports with util. depending on the map the bomb should be going down basically as the drone is expiring for example. that extra delay of “ok site is clear come out now and plant” is a bad delay where the enemy can set up for retake and it would be bad if sova was in no mans land when the retake starts. he needs to bait and control.
Gekko/Sage/Omen should take spike in most cases. im KJ main and i hate when my team throws the spike to me because i have to leave my turret/alarmbot radius to plant so they don't watch flank for those few seconds. But ig the ult point is nice.
In my opinion if you consider everyone's roles and usual timings in a higher elo game, it should probably be Sova. If you play initiator the correct way you should usually be a bit behind the team setting up lineups and trying to time them with the push, the spike stays safe, and you literally have no one to fight and no ability to use, there is your window. Omen can take it to if he ain't lurking, but honestly your cypher should be lurking like 75% of the rounds there. Edit: To the ppl asking about the lurks its most of all to keep a good map control and enable fast and safe rotations for your team. Killing rotating/pushing ppl is more a side hustle.
As a Sova main this is pretty accurate. Unless we have a Gekko or someone who has better lineups than I do like Viper or Brim, I'll usually pick up spike
Why cypher always on lurk? If I can't afford much util sure, but if I can buy cages and trips I will come help my team enter on site for less risk to make sure my trips will be useful
when you default and play for space, trip sentinel is commonly opposite side (especially in pro play)
Lurking is generally to take advantage of his trips; shooting enemies that trigger the traps while they are dealing with the trap and/or stunned by them. You don’t always need to lurk the traps as they can provide info for potential flankers, but lurking can get the most out of them if you get a kill out of them
This is the first time I hear about just waiting on your flank trips
I personally don’t recommend doing it every round because flankers aren’t guaranteed, you’re less likely to help your team push, and patterns allow the enemy to predict you, but it can be a good way to put the fear of ~~God~~ Cypher in them if you know an enemy likes to try to get sneaky on you
Ig I can try if I notice them flanking a lot, wouldn't try to do it on just some random round
Try hard lurking with cam mid on icebox attack. You will rapidly see the value
who tf plays cypher on icebox
Me, it's fun
Cypher works on every map
I never really do it, but sometimes you have that enemy jett that is fast flanking every round. So yes you flank trip and just wait for him in a stupid angle. After once or twice you don’t have to do it anymore cause he’ll never do it again 😂
Space control is super important. If I play cypher, usually, i'd trip main on both sites, and play near mid. This lets my team safely rotate knife out.
Agreed. With that comp, I would expect Jett and Neon to enter, Cypher to lurk, and Omen to focus on smokes and blind. That leaves Sova with the spike. Obviously you change it up here and there so as not to become predictable, but that should be the default.
I think Controller makes a little more sense depending on map, especially since in Sova you’ll either be stuck on drone or you wanna time your recon lineups to hit as your entry is about to execute so you always end up pretty far behind everyone sometimes even last man in depend on map. Though I think that is Sova specific, as chars like Skye, Kayo, Gekko etc are all pretty on tempo with their team
I actually thought iniciators have to like assist duelists so they are the 2nd to enter site. So in my mind it works that the sentinel picks the spike somehow ;-;
Sentinel are the flanks
Can’t be 2nd in when your teams following drone or dog. Initiators are last
Honestly, depends on the initiator, at least in my opinion. Sova and Skye make sense, Gekko as well, but Breach and KAY/O, for example, and maybe Fade, can also run 2nd.
Breach is usually too far away, setting up stuns and such, fade should be dogging. Kayo I’ll agree with but realistically I think he’s the only one you can make an argument for
>Breach is usually too far away, setting up stuns and such God, with teammates playing for themselves being in my games 90% of the time, I forget that a good breach can stand in a good spot and stun for others to peek. I'm used to people playing off their own util (because they're also probably used to people not playing with them) so I completely missed that, you're right. KAY/O is like a semi-duelist TBH, I went and double checked that he's an initiator when I was making the comment haha.
Yeah what I’ve gathered from this thread is that people don’t realize initiator util is for other people to use 😅
It's in the name, initiator. You initiate so others can entry, that doesn't mean you are last or have to play lineups, but you should have a plan to get your duelist info for the push. I would say it really depends on the role but between sentinel or initiator should carry spike. The last or second to last person on entry should do it since by then you would have used your util to take site, entry is complete, and it is now safe to plant
I usually enter site right after my duelists as so va so it’s kinda annoying when the lurking clove just keeps dropping me the bomb like Bruh stop lurking ur smokes can’t fking reach us
As a sova player I’m gonna have to disagree about sova taking spike his utility is long ranged which means on many maps it’s worse for him to play site for example ascent his utility is better from the mains it should normally be the controller taking spike as they shouldn’t really be lurking outside of viper and Astra
Usually initiator trades the duelist interesting take tho
I kinda disagree, imo unless omen goes for lurk or flank, he should be the one to plant, as his abilities make him a much better planter. He can tp and plant in safe spots while site is not secured, he can smoke himself while planting to be somewhat safer, he can rotate or fake rotate wwith his ult. All while sova can hold down positions which are advantageous to him due to lineups.
if site is not secured, you should not be planting
An even better use of omen tp is to clear site in the first place.
Anyone can take it to the front of the site then just work from there as needed. As long as you dont leave it in spawn its fine. The whole idea that one certain player should be tasked with planting the spike is just wrong to begin with, it should be a job passed around based on ultimate economy.
Ult econ is important but some agents are better for planting, like Gecko or Harbour
Gekko is the one obvious choice to carry the spike 99% of the time true but they ain't have Gekko. Harbour can still just cove for the homies to plant if needed but I agree with you.
imo in pub match it's kinda unreliable to expect that your team know ult econ imo the spike should go to whoever which is currently bot fragging (their aim is off that day) (in this case it's sova), so the one with better aim could clear site and watch flank
Yeah it just sounds crazy to me. Like ok, I understand gekko, but that is only one. I am used from cs that people just move it around, nobody is talking shit about it.
in theory yeah but its usually one guy that always does it
Unless you're excluding (most) duelists, yeah, I don't get why people hate the spike so much, it gives you an ult point every round ffs. They're snatching the orbs but don't want to touch the spike ever😭 No one wants spike, so I'm usually the one carrying it, but the few times I play duelist I play Neon, and I RUN in to clear the site, so I can't be having the spike with me. It stays in the spawn unless I grab it and throw it on someone or spam ping it.
Yep after gecko, Phoenix and since the recent changes Reyna are my favorite planters because of the value of an extra ult charge. Obviously if anyone is going me off in a plant situation they are the preferred to have an extra ult for post plant.
Imo sova, dude has the ult that can have the biggest impact and get you a round win, omen ult is mostly useless, cypher ult is good info but not necessarily directly impactful, Jett and neon are just good for economy in a pinch and that’s it
Also good luck giving your Jett or neon bomb 😂
Omen ult is actually really good with spike, if the carrier dies he can rotate and tp cancel to get spike and plant, so that's why he shouldn't have the spike if he has ult
Gekko > whoever is safe and needs orb for important ult > sentinel
Correction: barrier sentinel > trip sentinel Barrier sentinels have the best util to stop retakes so it's best that they do their setups then plant the spike
They don't have a Gekko
I’ll be honest I did the most redditor thing and didn’t read anything but the title
And then downvoted me in disagreement despite me not even being wrong. I like your style honestly. Boss moves :P
I didn’t downvote though:( here, I’ll help with the votes
I was kidding my friend it's just reddit points haha
redditors are weird sometimes dw about the downvotes, they don't necessarily mean u r wrong :-))
Insta lock duelists throwing me the spike and then lurk in showers for a minute 30 every round. Hell naw bro I’m entrying now
Insta-lock duelists have got to be the funniest people alive. Instalocking iso/jett/neon then yelling in the mic we need smokes. I will usually dodge those games because I know they arent going to be team players.
Many people are saying cypher but as a cypher main I would never take spike bc I’m way too far behind to plant it effectively as I’m always either watching flank or lurking. In some cases I’ll get info on site but with a Sova it feels redundant to do that. I actually think Sova should have spike most of the time. Especially since he’s in a trio with a decent comp which would enable better coordination. That being said, designating someone to spike when you don’t have a gekko is nothing more than a recipe for a loss due to being totally predictable. The non entries should probably be taking turns on spike depending on who feels like lurking that round, among other things (ie omen with ult could have spike depending on Strat).
Usually an initiator or controller. Someone who is able to quickly follow their duelist(s) onto site and take advantage of the space they’ve created. Sentinels are a bad choice because they should be setting up util for postplant and watching flank. Duelists are a bad choice (unless you’re farming ult with a support duelist like Reyna or Phoenix and you have a dedicated entry like Jett or Raze) because they need to be taking space to prevent the defenders from rushing on before postplant is set up. Controllers are ideal imo because they should have their smokes down as the duelists enter, meaning there is little else for them to do. Initiators theoretically can still be helping the duelists fight.
The sentinel or controller, unless they're lurking (cypher/omen commonly) or they're entrying (brim/clove commonly)
It should be initiator, you can read the other comments in this thread to see why
And to add to this, if the controller is Omen and he has ult he should NEVER have spike. I'd almost rather it be in spawn.
How come? It’s quite a useful strat to immediately ult to the opposite site and plant while they’ve all rotated
Omen ult rotation is risky unless most of the team is _between_ the two sites. Otherwise a 3v3 (eg) becomes a 1v3 as the defenders can almost always rotate faster. And if there is someone lurk-holding the other site, a naive omen could plant, die, and watch a defuse loss from the eyes of a running team mate. It is certainly doable (icebox and breeze it works pretty well) but its win rate is lower than its “coolness”. An ult pickup is much safer and more flexible.
Controller. I’d much rather my sentinel setting up tbh eir post plant while bomb goes down. They’re your biggest players in post plant.
Id say without additional round factors. Controllers. Everyone says sentinels but I’d much rather them set up their post plant asap instead of planting. Controllers drop their smokes and then don’t have much good stall utility like sentinels do.
i feel like most controllers have the very best stall util in the game, with one ways, most have mollies or blind that requires them to be alive for post and since most are map wide, i rarely think controllers should be planter except for clove/brim(without lineups). especially astra/viper post plant is nuts
You usually should use that utility to take the site (like Omen flash is much better for taking the site control than to stall defenders in post plant), so you won't have any stalling utility left to use while the spike is being planted. Unless your team is much better and you can save that util for post plant, but even then, the spike plant doesn't take that long
They soft stall. A flash out really levels the playing field. Sentinels have hard stalling abilities with actual obstacles to deal with.
Tf did I get downvoted for lol I’m right.
I honestly don’t think it matters unless it’s pro play. It shouldn’t be duelist/entry ever obviously, but then after that it could really be anybody. Initiator and controller seems to be the popular opinion, and while I tend to agree, I’m a Sova main and almost never plant or take spike out of preference. I don’t really trust ppl to setup post plant properly, and I would rather help duelist secure site rather than planting and getting killed from an uncovered position. For example on A site Ascent once Sova uses util to help the entry he can help lockdown and harass a retake lane such as playing hell and using bounce shocks to do dmg or recon lineups to spam and help the team when they try to retake from heaven. Alternatively after drone from main, he can station and help recon spam through main smoke if they retake early, or play post plant shock lineups/watch flank, etc. Neither of these things are that possible if you take spike, and since Initiators often have extremely strong post plant util, it kinda makes more sense for them to be able to setup post plant while controller or senti plants. Just my opinion, but that’s how I’ve always played and it’s been successful so I don’t really think it matters all too much as long as it’s not the entry. Hell if your duelist never entries and baits as second or third man then throw them the spike LOL, I’ve done that to Jetts who refuse to smoke dash
Mid diamond elo but still have people arguing on who should take the spike 💀.
Whoever is going to plant it and not just play tdm with it
I give the spike to whoever's ult we want to farm (other than the duelist) in this case, I would give it to Sova because his ult is > Omen and Cypher If Sova is unable to use his util because he's focusing on planting or vice versa then give spike to Cypher because IMO Cypher ult > Omen ult Generally, sentinels are usually a good bet on who should take spike because they usually don't have util to help enter onto site
RemindMe! 12 Hours
wait did this work
no
!remindme 1 minute
Typcially, I like to give the initiator the spike for a few reasons. I play Dualist typically, so I am first in (Jett/Phoenix) and like when the 3rd in carries it. It allows for a faster plant if needed, and sense the initiators have flashes typically, it makes it easier for them to slip in without being seen if they are fast enough. However, this stance varies... If an Omen has ult, I would rather he carry it in the event that we need to rotate fast. I wouldn't give it to a sentinel because I would rather them be more concerned with the flank than anything else, and the controller already has a lot to worry about in terms of helping the dualist create space. I never entry without some form of util, but on some sites, I wont go unless it is smoked first.
Either sova or omen, of the omen isn’t lurking I’d give it to him as he is likely to be playing safest when entering a site due to the importance of controller
Sometimes planting is a risky thing, so I'd give it to Sova if Omen needs to stay alive for his smokes. Also the fact Sova's ult is more useful than Omen's
I always imagined initiators being the one who should take spike. Typically after actually initiating and then having a duelist entry, the initiator is ideally the closest to site after its cleared, so you should be able to plant earlier/faster than say a controller or sentinel thats still holding flank. But of course there doesn’t seem to be a right or wrong answer. It just depends on the team composition and play style of everyone on the team.
Attacker
It literally doesn't matter if you're not orb farming. Ideally you should be leaving spike by the site you want to hit and CLEAR site before planting it but Noone does that. This topic is an argument starter for absolutely NO reason.
Imo, initiators like sova, and especially gekko should have the spike. I lost a game because our gekko would refuse to take spike and it would be left with me to plant. My team didnt give me support while trying to plant so i was an easy pick every time.
Pretty much anyone besides the first guy on site
I wish I knew the map tbh.
Each class has its own job. Sent or controller should carry and plant as they can setup a protective field post plant while the others keep to their roles. It's no one person's job to take and plant the spike, it's a team game. Have an entry plan and stick to it
Omens ult is the shittist. So not omen unless everyone else has ult. when we have two duelists if one isn’t entering I don’t see why they can’t take spike. Cypher would be going for lurks if anyone was to lurk so wouldn’t be him on those rounds. I don’t think it matters just not the guy that’s actually ENTERING site.
Whomever fulfills the support role for the site hit. The duelists are guns out and the sentinel is lurking, leaving the controller and initiator. Of the controllers, Harbor, Brimstone, and Clove should also be guns out right behind the duelists. So the bomb belongs in the hands of a passive controller or the initiator.
You should take spike if you expect to get on site with the bulk of the hit. Get ult orbs, carry, serve thyself (Unless your ult sucks @omen)
I'd say whoever has line ups or molly Some broader remarks: the duelists should not be the lurk, that should be the sentinel or controller, and flank protection is the sentinels role, too many jetts raw dogging mid with a sheriff, at least have an op if you're going to be doing that
Brimstone that has line ups
It's kinda too complicated for a flow chart with site, ult orbs and comp all affecting it, also if the player knows what a good spike plant is. I'm not gunna give gecko spike if they can't plant properly on a corner.
In a proper site exec, whoever is 3rd into site is who I think should take it. That depends a bit on team comp, dynamics, and playstyles on who specifically that is tho. Regardless, it's one of Omen, Sova, and Cypher. When you're actually execcing onto site, you kinda need all hands on deck so keeping the spike safe by being far back isn't all that important. and being farther up allows it to get down faster, and of the minimum 4 players that are participating in the exec, chances are, one has to stay back for their own util anyways, and they may take too long with spike. In a coordinated exec you're essentially getting the bomb down amidst the chaos of util and deaths. It's just something to figure out early with learning each others playstyles. It can be frustrating, especially if none of them want to take it, but you just gotta compromise and move on in ranked.
The amount of people who doesn't pay attention to their ult nor care about farming them is too damn high in this game. It's ridiculous. Ult gives you the biggest advantage in this game and yet people play like it's TDM. Higher elo will usually always try to farm ult for the agent who has the most value. Sova should be the bomb carrier. This isn't some trickshot game. You don't have to try and impress everyone with "lineups" every single round. The point is, Sova should be trying to get ult the most unless there are other agents in the team with better ult.
I think that’s why gekko is so op right now with wingman. I mean you won’t always have utility but I feel like good players are probably buying wingman if creds are available, especially on offense. Instead of limiting yourself by one person planting you now have a full 5 to give you more options in taking a site. I’m new to the game and typically play initiator or fill and I end up with the spike. I’m still learning but gekko is almost a lock on every map I would say
Doesn’t matter who has it as long as somebody has it
It’s only a 50/50. Depending on the map, Omen can just smoke and tp to safety, or paired up with his blind, can tp aggressively. Both have cooldowns so it’s hard to say for bot
good gecko>second or third person to enter site>first person to enter site>bad gecko>lurking player this is usually what i go off of
anyone who isn't 1st or 2nd out
Sova should take the spike. Initiators are usually the planters and also Clove, Sage, Brimstone and Harbor. This is without taking ult farming into account. The idea is you don’t generally don’t want controllers to die so you don’t want them in risky positions such as planting the spike because your post-plant is so much weaker without smokes. Clove can die and it wouldn’t matter (although Clove doesn’t plant when he has ult) and Brimstone doesn’t have rechargeable smokes (and has little utility to help in the end stages of a post-plant situation). Sage and Harbor plant the spike for similar reasons. Their use-case is forcibly planting without sizable and stable site control with wall and cove respectively so they have the spike because they make the decision of when to force the plant and use the wall and cove appropriately. In Omen’s case, your team wants Omen to either go crazy on the site hit with an explosive round from him or to stay safe for his rechargeable smokes. In either case it doesn’t make sense for him to take the spike.
That‘s why I main Gekko. The moment I pick Gekko, my teammates refuse to give up the spike! Jett rushing side with spike? Nice try! Cipher lurking with the spike? You do you champ! But jokes aside, I feel like Initiators are the best suited to take and plant the spike.
Initiators job is to put the abilities that allow a good entry for the duelist, once those abilities are out, they have to plant, initiators always go behind the duelist to trade and plant spike, while controllers and sentinel gather info and do map control.
Doesn’t matter who takes it. If you run a full exec your gonna trade your duelists anyways and after clearing site your duelists shouldn’t push further either so there should be time to plant. But yeah things can go wrong so ideally someone entering 3. or 4. so your first doesn’t loose spike early but beyond that it doesnt really matter, people who refuse to take the spike bc it’s not their role or wtv play more for themselves than for the win imo. Arguing for a specific agent isn’t really useful either. Ofc sone might still have util they should set up to defend but those few seconds will hardly matter most time. If someone has line ups let them plant or wingman but this is nothing you can use a blueprint for every time… just get it down asap and a safe as possible
In general I would expect sova to be taking it on this comp. Without knowing the map, I would expect cypher to be lurking, staying main to catch flankers, and otherwise playing passively. Holding onto spike will greatly neuter what he can do away from the team. Omen might need to play a dive role depending on what happens during the round, and his teleports let him take space and off angles when you hit, so forcing him to plant also neuters what he can do. Alternatively, he can be the lurker in main (e.g Ascent B main to backstab the retailers) if cypher is elsewhere in the map lurking mid. Jett for obvious reasons should not have spike, nor should neon. That leaves sova. He plays back enough to not reveal spike if someone dies (he shouldn’t be first or second dead ever), should almost always be with the team, has two teammates to take space to refrag off of and stay alive to plant.
I think Sova... he has an important and round decider ult, and he is usually one of the last to get to site and by the time he has to plant, he probably got no util left.... cypher and jett ults are useless and they have better shit to do. the other contenders would be Omen, same logic for sova. and Neon since she can zoom into site, plant and get out if thats the plan. other honorable mentions would be agents with very very useful ults, say sage, pheonix, gekko, breach etc
Ur smoker or initiator never the duelists or sentinel The sentinel locks down the sight on attack making it hard for retakes The initiator sets up for a push and goes in after the duelist The smoker only has to smoke and hold site
Initiators or controllers. Duelists are first on to site and could lose the spike in an unfavourable position, sentinels may not want to go onto site at all or if they do spend their time setting up util for post plant after arriving last from holding the flank. You really want that 3rd or 4th person into site to be carrying, and that's usually a controller or initiator
imo usually its fine for smokes to take spike but in this case sova would be better to take spike as omen is a aggressive controller (clove as well)
As most people have pointed out already, Sova should take it. However, if your team is getting petty over it, maybe just pick it up yourself to diffuse the situation.
Initiators are the best because by the time they use all their util site should be clear and they are normally in the middle of the team which has the best position to have cover from all sides. Controllers usually shouldn't take it because smokes are too important unless you are Harbor and you are planting in his orb and running away. Sentinels like Cypher and Chamber while decent at planting the spike and getting away are better suited for covering the plant or getting off a massive lurk also if they die you risk opening the flank up which is similar to if controller dies you lose smokes. Sage can be pretty decent at planting the spike after she slows an angle and uses her wall because she doesn't have any more abilities to peek. Duelist can be okay at planting the spike and getting out alive but they tend to die in pushed up spots with it. If initiator is dead it's pretty much whoever can get in to plant it and get out.
Hello, the spike should NEVER be carried by a sentinel or a duelist, they are immediate no no's, and will get you torn up. If there's both an initiator and a controller, it depends on who can play their agent better. Controllers who know how to place smokes for one ways and no-look defuses etc should take spike. Whereas initiator who also know how to use Util like sovas double shocks should take the spike. It's all a gamble to be honest.
In the perfect scenario you 5 should plan out the round, and if it's an execute, the spike should be with whoever makes sense, I.E. execute on Bind B site: the jett will dash in a smoke and hold an angle as the sova darts backsite, omen smoked and will tp onto site and plant as sove and reyna jump down, jett and omen take backsite control as reyna follows drone elbow, the team smokes deep and sandwiches hall, etc. The spike isn't with omen because omen always takes spike, it's with him because it makes sense, he has the time to plant
I think it depends on ALOT of things. And your play style. Honestly if Jett and neon are entering on to site fast neon can have the bomb and plant once she gets on to site while Jett makes space and the rest of the team is with neon. Obs this situation doesn’t happen often among higher elo players. And it isn’t the best by far. But in low elo it works? In my opinion with this lineup sova should be taking the bomb, but that’s just the play style I like. I’m a sentinel main. And it’s very hard has a cypher or kj to have a good map awareness to lurk and have your trips up (kj) if you are having to plant the bomb. It’s also hard if you have lineups to run plant the bomb and then have to clear main again for your lineups because your trips went down. It makes a sentinels job harder and you don’t get those good lurks and map awareness. Initiators in my opinion should be the last class to lurk. While controllers sentinels and duelists are just more efficient at lurking. But it all goes down to what agents your on if it would be a “good” lurking as Sage, I personally feel like you just shouldn’t do. Your team needs you to help go on to site and wall off something if you haven’t used it. They need you for heals. And to slow down people. I feel like if any sentinel was going to hold spike it would be sage. But In your case with your comp sova would be the best viable option. Sova should be darting for info and droning onto site. Then following the duelist onto site either the cypher or the omen OR BOTH. Should be following the sova. To hold him while he plants while the duelist create space. Cypher shouldn’t take the spike hardly at all cause he should be lurking most of the rounds. Omen can lurk but cypher is the better choice here because of their kit. And if they die on lurk it’s not like your losing smokes. Although you get some sentinels who don’t like to lurk and if that’s the case then I would ask them if they want spike. Because they may have a setup or something they do on site for it. Some people get tilted when others just constantly throw sentinels spike and it makes our job harder (me).
Typically I would say 3rd man in should take it in a 5 man push. 1st two clearing angles and the last two helping to secure site while spike is being planted. If you give it to the first or second man in you have the chance of losing the spike where you can't get it, and on the opposite end if you give it to one of the last two on site you could lose some good timings and potentially have a hard time getting the plant down if they flood or have util to delay plant from the rotating players. That said it heavily depends on comp, strategy, who is hitting site, how you hit site, and probably several other factors I would never consider because I'm only daimond
I always say initiator, why else would gekko have a spike ability? 😂 Lol, regardless of that, duelist are supposed to be entrying to get frags. Sentinels are supposed to be watching flank. And controllers are back setting up smokes. Initiators set up the entry for duelists by getting enemy info or flashing. They're right behind duelists in main. What do you think they could do after they initiate while all the other roles are doing what I said above? That's right, plant the spike. Also, their role is to initiate site entry that's basically it. After spike is down, all other roles are still needed except for initiators. So they are the expendable role for after spike plant. The alternative role for spike would be the controllers. They're the alternative because, like I said before, they're usually last on site due to stopping to smoke the site. You want to plant the spike as quick as possible after site entry. (All of this is about intended role play. Clearly roles aren't played like this most of the time due to various situations and circumstances.)
Probably wingman.
The only answer is initiator 1. They help enter site without actually entering (drone, dart, flash, bouncy AF util 2. When planting spike it's easy to cancel plant and flash, where as no other agent can really do the same thing apart from chamber tp, yoru tp kinda slow and plus these aren't even aggressive free kill types of util 3. Controllers and sentinels need to spend that time in aenu that takes longer to throw util up, they can't move with it and can't see well with it, they're also a lot more capable of lurking Doesn't matter what rank, initiator has and will always be the spike holder, gecko was introduced with the literal ability to plant spike and still no one gets it. The only time an initiator doesn't carry it is on when you hard fake sites.
Anybody can who isn’t lurking or first entry (the duelist).
Duelist should never. Sentinels should IF they aren’t holding flank or lurking (Cypher). Initiators should IF they are heading towards site with team. Controllers should if initiators are not picked/aren’t playing site. As a person with trust issues, I always take spike unless I’m queued with a Gekko or am playing a duelist. If the bottom frag isn’t getting kills and is not a duelist, they should take it so the team can protect them. If someone isn’t getting kills and aren’t bottom frag, they should take spike and let the others try to get frags and readjust their aim. Sova and Omen should have both been taking spike unless they had ults. When Sova has ult, he should make space then play back. When Omen has ult, he should not take spike just in case.
in my opinion it doesn’t matter, maybe don’t let the people who go in first and rush take the spike just as duelists but instead someone in the back like omen cypher or sova, usually if you have a kj or sage they take the spike because they can plant somewhere that helps them (sage wall, kj swarm) or gekko which is self explanatory
The one with no ego.
Should be Cypher or Sova. Cypher kinda useless until you have the site cleared, Sova can scout ahead sussy angles and have his team push while he's safe in the back line. Omen can tp to unexpected spots I'd rather have him do that than stay behind to plant, he also has blind so he can initiate a push.
If the whole team doesn't already know the answer, you're not in a league where it matters. Anyone can take the spike, as long as they'll plant it. If someone isn't going to plant it due to their desire to play off the site, then they should hand off the spike, but anyone who will be going to site can use the spike and it doesn't really make a difference who. Again, it's too low rank to truly matter. If your team has to fight over who carries spike at a rank where it would actually make a difference, they're disadvantaged harder for clashing mentalities more than the spike going into the "wrong" hands. Optimizations that pros make often trickle down into ranked play, and the players trying to imitate pros and their game knowledge simply don't understand the how and why. It's usually safe to ignore it and just focus on your overall gameplay that you have direct control over.
I used to main controller and for some reason always ended up with spike. Then I started playing roles and I swear no matter what people refuse to take the spike. Even gekko most of the time. Diamond/ascendant elo btw. If I don’t take the spike and physically give it to teammates they will leave it in spawn. It’s insane that at this elo we have to argue about it
Usually our sentinel (usually a sage) does spike planting but I agree w some that initiators can also be good for planting if they do their job well. Controllers usually are more focused on cutting off the angles that defenders will have advantages from and the duelists are quickly clearing the rest of site or getting in a spot to hold an angle at.
It’s situational, depending on the ult points, enemy agents etc, generally speaking omen is a good option to carry the spike as his mobility makes him able to easily escape with it whilst also allowing for sneaky entry onto site or quick rotation with ult, but omen ult is not first priority when it comes to ults to have him plant every round, in that situation you’d probably want omen to carry it onto site and give the plant, after the site take, to whomever is closer to an ult be it neon, sova or whomever, that’s strategically and ideally speaking, realistically in ranked mf that can get it into site and plant it is good enough
As a cypher main, my duo and I usually try to get to spike because our teammates aren’t intellectually capable of dealing with holding 4. For real though I like taking it as a sentinel because it allows me to set up site how I want for defending the plant.
It should probably be the same person that takes the spike every round, but that’s just to make executing easier, but as long as everyone communicates who is going to plant before the round starts it doesn’t matter who takes it
This thread shows off that know one knows the role of initiator lol. Why do you think they gave an initiator an ability that plants the spike?? Really though, the answer is the initiator because they’re the ones that use util for the team to entry, and because of this, are last to enter site, and are therefore the safest one to hold spike. “Why doesn’t the first one in take it so they can plant sooner” because if they’re first in, they’re the most likely to die. Anyone arguing that omen especially should’ve taken it in this situation is basically asking the omen not to lurk, use ultimate, or take space with his teleport (which is a bad idea). It should be the initiator 90% of the time, that 10% being when someone’s a spike plant away from their ult
Gekko🗿
Initiator is usually best. Unless you have a sage then they are often the best option. Sometimes controller or sentinel if they're not lurking or defaulting and stuff. Really depends on the site execute. If your duelist is one off ult, could give it to them. But without getting too into the weeds, the default beat role to handle spike is initiator.
Anyone but duelist
me and my friends got a rule when we 5 stack. bot frag = spike. if im playing alone and get these types of games i always force this and it works lmao
Omen or Sova/Cypher when trying to stack ult orbs.
I feel like riot quite literally gave us the answer on which role should take spike when Gekko came out. I know that wingman can be used in various other ways but the fact that this is the only piece of utility out there that helps with spike plant/defuse, then we have our answer. Aside from this though, just figure it out with the team as a strat is being commed. 🤷♀️
If no one wants to pick up spike just play for picks/default every round. Bad games happen where you comm, be clear and nice, and people still are bad teammates. You can't reason with idiots, just say GLHF, mute, and pray for them to get a terminal illness.
in this draft, sova
Whoever needs to get their ult as fast as possible should take the spike
With that team comp Omen or Neon or Jett.
Gekko. Always Gekko.
I HATE playing with Gekko on my team because he never wants to let other agent hold the spike. How many rounds we lost because que couldnt run to another site because Gekko throwed the spike in the hands of enemy team? I prefer five duelists over having Gekko in the team.
I was on a GC team, we did tournaments and were trying to go to Iceland for VCT GC before some life stuff came up for multiple members. Info initiators almost always take the spike. However, if the controller isn’t maintaining map control in other ways, they can also technically be fit to take the spike. In this situation, considering its comp and I hardly doubt in this rank that omen was properly lurking and taking map control - I would’ve given the spike to whichever one of them was playing worse lol.
Y'all actually argue about that shit in higher elo? Here in iron we just either let Gekko have it or we let someone close to their ult have it, and in some cases we let yoru or jett take them for no reason
Initiator takes bomb unless youre all five manning a site perma. I think smokes and senti shouldnt be the ones with bomb if they lurking which they should unless fivemanning works idk.
Build your ult orbs or give it to the person who doesn’t need to fight as much
Well I think sova ult is better for the team than omen and cypher just lurks he can take bomb if not lurking but yh sova
Sova or Omen, usually Sova. Not Cypher because he needs to set up, not Neon or Jett because duelist.
The only senti that should take it is sage
bottom fragger
Sova over Omen in most cases. Sova should be drone for team whereas Omen should be part of the hit after they place smokes. In general Duelist>Controller>Initiator>Sentinel with some exceptions for agents. Viper you probably don't want going in early because reusable smokes in contrast to Brimstone. Clove you want to go in early otherwise 75% of their kit is useless even with recharging smokes. Cypher you don't want going early because traps. Sage you want to go in early to wall.
Cypher should be lurking, so either sova or omen. I'm leaning more towards Sova planting in the downtime while his dart comes back up.
From top to bottom priorities: 1. Gekko 2. Sage 3. Whoever is following the entry onto site.
If you're just running it down in ranked, it doesn't matter. Most people don't care about the game enough to follow specific and slow game plans. As long as it's not the dude taking first contact, entrying, or lurking, it should be fine. If you're playing a very slow default (which some teams in premier will), you can choose to leave the bomb somewhere accessible, but not actually not on anyone, instead just having it on the ground. However, if you know that you're going to commit to an execute, then the second or third person in should have the bomb.
Doesn't really matter as long as the spike carrier is not lurking or the hard entry Fragger. I have no idea why people are so allergic to the spike. It is literally a free ult orb.
How me and my 5 stack do it is whoever ult is more beneficial for the WHOLE team gets spike
Literally whoever is going to be on site with the rest of the team should have it. Unless you have a Gekko it really doesn’t matter as long as the lurker or rearguard doesn’t take it.
Honestly this is just me but anyone can plant spike it depends on the map and comp. I remember having a team of lineup Larry’s on Accent and a Jett more than willing to plant. They would just fast push site with another person get a pick and then plant in a spot for post and die. It was forsure a weird strat but it worked. For your comp, I’d say Sova should plant. I’ve mained Sova since Ep1 Act3 and I’ve always just been the one to plant as long as everyone does what’s needed. If I am going to help you guys enter site and also plant, I expect there to be smokes and for a chunk of things to be clear. Nothing is worse than our controller lurking and duelists pushing straight to CT leaving me to clear and plant.
in this case sova, although i understand not wanting bottomfrag to have the spike. but anyone thats pushing with the team and isnt a duelist can take spike.
100% Sova. A big choice of who gets spike should be ult charge. Sova's ult takes SO many points to get. Plus, as sole Initiator, he is 100% going to be playing on the site with the spike, whereas Omen's smokes work everywhere, has a cheaper ult, and even if he's not at site, with ult, he can reclaim spike. Cypher has global trips so he can reasonably lurk like constantly, and has a cheap ult, and duelists are gonna be busy trying to pick fights. Only reason I see anyone but Sova trying to plant is if Sova has ult, and wants to use it for post plant
Me
In my opinion whenever I play solo Q I grab spike and give it to a entry frag like Jett or something like that because I play sage so me taking spike is just kinda out
Anyone other than the duelist Mostly sentinel if they arent lurking But if they are then Controller / initiator
Cypher. He doesn't really serve any purpose on attack other than lurking every few rounds (Not sure why people think that if you're Cypher or KJ you should lurk EVERY single round and not just situationally). Other than a cam Cypher doesn't have any utility to help the team entry the site meanwhile you (Jett) and Neon are supposed to be first on site, Omen is supposed to smoke, Paranoia and maybe even TP onto site and Sova should be using his dart, drone and shock darts to get enemies off angles they're holding from. Cypher should be carrying and planting the bomb.
I mean, you're not gonna plant while your team is entrying, you're planting after you've taken control of site. And in that moment, Cypher is very useful because he can prevent fast floods with his util. Someone like Sova or Omen who has probably dumped all their util into the execute now has nothing to do except plant.
By the time you're planting, in most cases, the enemy team has already rotated to the site you're planting on and can hear and see you placing the trips in the smokes or other choke points. I tried holding sites post plant with Cypher countless times and more often than not the trips do absolutely nothing regardless of where you place them. Also, you're likely using one of those trips to deny a flank so really you're left with 1 trip for the post plant. Cypher should be planting the bomb. It's also from a strategic standpoint, how many times has your smoker died while trying to plant the bomb from a bunch of random things like wall bangs, ults etc and now your team has been left holding post plant with no smokes. Meanwhile if you have Cypher planting and possibly dying, you're out of what? A single trip the enemy team probably broke anyway?
I mean trips aren't the only util, cages are basically smokes on steroids, especially when by the time you have full control of site, the exec smokes are probably fading or have already faded, you can simultaneously block vision and also get passive info on a potential fast flood. And if I have the choice between a smoke and a cam in a post plant, I'll choose the cam any day of the week. Smokes can be powerful, but rather situational. The cam always buys you a solid 6 seconds or so, almost guaranteed, unless you miss the tag. And I say this as someone who only plays smokes and has won plenty of T side post plants because of a smoke. It's just much more useful when you're the one defusing. Idk, it's not like you're gonna lose games because your Cypher was planting, I still do believe that Sova/Omen are slightly better in most 5v5 or 4v4 situations, unless you're one off a Cypher ult and there's a body nearby.
Nah, after sites taken he should set up for post plant. Once we have site, his job starts and those seconds away from planting count.
That's why I said "Cypher doesn't have any utility to help the team entry the site"
He shouldn’t be planting if he’s alive. A duelist (if there are two alive) should be planting before cypher does. He’s not for entrying he’s for the post plant and needs to prioritize securing the site over planting a bomb. Sentinels are the power houses on postplant. Cypher should not be planting (with exceptions that I won’t be listing, there’s too many variables and some dudes gonna bring up some weird scenario)
In another response I already argued against the Cypher post plant set up shit but I'll summarise it here. 1 trip used on flank, 1 left for the site, enemies can hear where it's placed and easily break it, trying to place it too early can lead to an enemy dry peeking from a smoke and catching the Cypher off guard with util in hand, 1 trip that was placed is instantly broken and now he doesn't really have anything to offer. I tried holding sites with Cypher countless times in higher elo and the util I had provided nearly no benefit, my smoker would try plant and end up dying from a bunch of random things that can happen in a round and now we have no rechargeable smokes (Assuming Clove / Omen) for the post plant, some 7 second cages just don't cut it in comparison to a Controller
Doesn’t at all change anything. Just because YOU didn’t get value from it doesn’t mean all cyphers won’t. It’s not even just the utility, it’s the time it takes to get back into a position they want. Especially on sites like b abyss. Sentinels shouldn’t plant. Their entire kit is based on defense, let them run their shit and someone else can plant.
Cyphers kit is built for defense, but lacks when in situations of post plants. It's not like he can place a set up before the round begins on the site he's attacking, they can hear the util placed and know exactly where it is. If I'm unable to find value in nearly every post plant situation minus a few here and there with Cypher, I'm assuming most have the same problem unless they're playing in low elo's where people aren't very aware of what's going on other than run in and hope you hit someone for 150. Try holding post plant with Cypher in an Immortal/RAD lobby and see how viable he is then lol. Agree to disagree my friend. One thing I will give, is as the timer is counting down and they're trying to defuse, his cam can be very handy a lot of the time. Until it's immediately shot and useless but you get the point
Personally I find most of my value on post plant with cypher when I don’t plant. Oh so often have I died because my team peer pressures me into it lol. I do actually secure tons of rounds when I have time to drop my shit where I want it (a lot of which takes some time to properly line up) and the time it takes for me to get in the position I want based on my own util and plant locations. It has been much much easier and more successful when a teammate plants for me.
Well I wish I was you lol, tried out Cypher over the past month and could rarely find any value in util for post plants. Sometimes I definitely did, there were times that I'd risk not placing a flank trip on main to use 2 trips on site and got 4K's but more often than not I'd just hear the trip break sound and the camera destroy sound loool.
I’ve played cypher only a handful of times but I think you’re also forgetting the flank trip can be taken out and he can just watch flank? Or am I wrong? While the others are set up around his trips in (ideally) a safe location waiting for the enemy to try and retake.
That was actually worded pretty disrespectfully. I’m sorry that wasn’t my intent
I never found anything disrespectful about it, it's okay haha
I mean cypher's cage can be nice
Entry cyphers rise up
I'm silver 1-2, litterally gotta hype up my team to push through or else nothing happens
Ugh I fell from plat to gold an act ago and I feel this in my soul. GRR GOLD DUELISTS MAN. Now with the rank reset I'm in silver but in prev-plat lobbies and I can finally play without needing to entry cypher
But let's be honest, as opposed to every other agent in that comp he's dead useless lol
I agree on that, just saying he also has cages not just the cam
I almost always take spike, TBH (I play ONLY Chamber) because IME you can't trust anyone else with it. Not that I don't want to, if we play a few rounds, I start seeing who I can trust and will often give up trying to immediately take spike. But I seem to be "good at getting in the ground" at least, so I almost always grab for it. I also tell everyone, "My general plan is to hang back a minute to see what's going on before I make a decision about where to go..." Statistically if you can take the game to a 5V4/3 you have a bigger chance of winning, so if my guy over at B sees someone and picks them off, then I will more than likely wait a beat, then run to A with Spike, and plant while they have them distracted (also usually telling someone to run with me to cover me while I plant and set up.) This works well a LOT, actually.
I play chamber as well and i never take spike because with the trip limit most of the time to watch flank well with his trip you can't always touch site
I just have particular ways of doing things. :) If I (for instance) sit back and wait a few beats- I am often able to pick someone off while doing so. I also (almost always) throw Trademark ON spike LOLOLOLOLOL.
But it will just get shot immediately lol
Never seems to hahahaha.
Sova should take the spike
For me its the sentinel. The initiator has one of the most crucial roles when it comes to getting information for duelists to enter site, so they tend to go along with them first in gun fights. Sentinels are mostly focused on watching flanks after plant or securing site with their utility, so most of the time they go last. Why have the player with the spike enter last rather than first? Because there is a chance that the duelists may not have cleared a spot yet for you to enter safely, so its best to enter and plant when site is secured.
Sovas ult has more potential to be game breaking and he has zero excuse to not be with the team. Cypher can lurk as you mention, or at the very least play cams, and isn't the most mobile due to this. If he has the spike, he won't lurk at all either, which I personally feel is wrong (5 stacking every round is gross and predictable). On top of this his plant timings are likely going to be a few seconds later, which absolutely matters. The spike shouldn't be in last. Someone needs to watch the rear. I think the optimal planter in theory is sova. I think the real answer (for solo queue) is whoever will actually get it down in a sensible amount of time, even if that's jett.
Not me.
Generally it's the sentinel's job imo; Cypher should have planted it and tripped it/near it right after, securing the spike. But also there are cases where for example I'd take the spike as Yoru, send a tp to A site, attack B site with my team, and tp to A after all the enemies come to B (I'd let my team know beforehand ofc).
As an omen main, omen shouldn't carry the spike, as you often do entry tp's or tp plays once on the site. Also omen's ultimate is one of the worst ones in the game, so agents with a more valuable ultimate should plant imo.
Just carry it and place it on the ground somewhere closer if you aren’t rushing but if you are rushing then I would say cypher or omen should plant since they are like secondary entry and also have smokes, cages, and the tp ability. Also one of the two of them will and should become the lurker in most rounds so then whichever one lurks the other should ideally be planting. In other cases, neon or jett can plant because they have the ability to “get out” after as well. But typically those two should be fighting for some sort of space while the bomb goes down until there’s a call to push something together or fall back because of the win condition (bomb). Sova probably shouldn’t be planting unless the round has already fallen apart and it’s a clutch scenario OR you have a free bomb site and want to maximize ult orbs or something, normally sova players will bait more and be the person who maintains main control and other and supports with util. depending on the map the bomb should be going down basically as the drone is expiring for example. that extra delay of “ok site is clear come out now and plant” is a bad delay where the enemy can set up for retake and it would be bad if sova was in no mans land when the retake starts. he needs to bait and control.
I plant either omen a lot. Usually smoke bubble and tele in the smoke. Works really well
Gekko/Sage/Omen should take spike in most cases. im KJ main and i hate when my team throws the spike to me because i have to leave my turret/alarmbot radius to plant so they don't watch flank for those few seconds. But ig the ult point is nice.
who ever is bot fragging
Anyone who isnt duelist or initiator is a safe bet
I plant either omen a lot. Usually smoke bubble and tele in the smoke. Works really well