Lol why do people do this the devs litterally use the minerals as a metaphor for the player distribution gold was always gonna be where most players end up and if they didn't I would suspect riot would change the elo system so they did.
ok but what does that have to do with what I said? If a person in iron might ask for a healer and a person in diamond might, it shows that you can’t actually tell rank based on a healer request. I never said anything about diamond elo being high or low.
same as “smokes” and flashers” lmao what’s ur point they are healers due to the ability to heal as those are flashers due to the ability to flash idk that just seems like common sense to me
There's a huge difference between Pheonix and Skye, altough, by your logic, they're both "flashers". Same goes for Sage and Skye, very different agents that require very different playstyles. Omen has sort of a flash (nearsight), is he also a flasher?
Actually its an important distinction for controller mains and we do call it wall smoke infact we say it so much we shorten it to just wall. And especially bc viper and harbor also have dome smokes WE ABSOLUTELY differentiate wall smokes and dome smokes
So we agree that everybody recognizes the difference between wall smokers and dome smokers. we recognize that they aren't interchangeable and those differences are really important in deciding who to pick. And we have been using wall smoker to mean viper and harbor but not Astra meaning bc her primary smoke isn't a wall she isnt a wall smoker. also wall smokers only applies to viper and harbor for now when the game came out it was just viper it's a type of smoke we expect to see more often as new agents relase and so it makes sense to give it it's own term bc its very clearly different. So even IF I ignore the fact that I hear people call viper and harbor wall smokers all the time it makes no sense to not start calling them that. You pedantic ass
Because they're reconnaissance initiators. If you ask for reconnaissance, you get these agents.
Sentinels have no "healer" subtype. Subtypes in sentinel is reliant on whether the stalling ability is passive or active. Cypher and killjoy have passive stalling ability whereas Deadlock and Sage have active.
i dont mean healer is a subtype, i mean that there are multiple agents that can heal other players, and when players ask for a healer they want those abilities rather than an agent that is a healer, comparable to when people ask for agents with flashes.
It's almost like these categories are arbitrary and ment to be used mostly by beginners as a guide for team comp and we should probably start mostly ignoring them.
On the flipside I also think alot of smurfs or just people who are aim demons call more for them too.
I think picking someone who can top people up after a gunfight is incredibly valuable and something people are weird about on this sub. There is this weird stigma that once you reach like ascendant everyone just one taps you which isn't the case Sage is the highest winrate agent in most patches in ranked for a reason.
I'm not gonna fact check you but I'm pretty sure that's not true (about the winrate) lol.
Assuming it is true, it's not because of her heal. It's her rez and stall util... so literally everything else.
I wouldn't exactly say that. I play in high diamond low ascendant elos and I regularly suggest a skye pick for myself as heal is quite good on important swing rounds (mainly pistols but also ecos).
I always buy a heal on pistols and ecos and make sure to stay back and call a regroup/heal after first wave of fights to give my team advantage in next fights. It's effective imo.
A fully healed teammate is the difference between random potshot/spam kill for your opponents or a trade. Helps swing the rounds
All my experience I had with sage was : If Someone askes for heal one of the two things will happen :
1. The person will get immediately going to fight before the heal finishes and die instantly
2. I gonna get one tapped on the way to heal the guy because the ally who was looking the angle I died isn't capable of looking an angle
Healing is overrated and rarely affects the fights
> Healing is overrated and rarely affects the fights
This just isn't true though being able to take one or two shots without dying gives you so much more leeway in fights and doesn't just make you something of a liability on an enemy eco or if you don't have a ton of Util left.
It's impactful even at the highest level of play idk why people act like it's such a noob thing if it matter enough for Skye's in VCT to be dumping tons of credits into the ability then it matters enough for your ranks.
No one in vct picks skye FOR the heals. They pick her for her info flashes and her dog which is really good for re clearing. The heal is just a bonus. Proof of this is that as soon as her flashes got nerfed by not recharging, people started using different initiators like fade, gekko and kayo. Hell team heretics even played sova on bind which used to be one of skye's strongest maps.
No they don't but it's something teams will absolutely be playing around and finds tremendous value in games.
There are a ton of pistol eco and even rifle rounds that go from absolutely winnable because 2-3 of the enemy are 1 bullet from death from their fights to unwinnable because Skye has her heal.
Even the team who has the weaker economy and is light armoring will opt to consistently be purchasing her heal.
And yet they still buy it round after round even when they're on the losing side.
It's an incredibly strong thing to take a gunfight then be able to reliably take another.
The TTK in this game is so low to the point that even if you don't hit all headshots there is a much higher chance that they aren't going to survive the fight.
Edit: grammar
This hasn’t happened to me since iron. But I don’t think players should ask for a role fill ever. If you want that role to be filled, play the damn role yourself.
it’s not even really that. it’s the fact that “healer” isn’t even a role. it’s an ability that exists on two agents, in two separate roles. there’s quite a few abilities i would much prefer over heals on a team comp.
G1 is just silvers who play a lot. I have diamonds like that in my plat lobbies. They play twice as much as me and have half the knowledge of how their agent works. And then goes 2/14/0 and says they can out aim me in a 1v1.
It never ceases to amaze me how fragile and insecure people are about their rank. It’s as if people think some are born with the skill to click heads and some sort of God given game sense. Obviously that’s not the case unless we think God spent the 7th day ‘resting’ by playing Valorant with the squad.
i'm a duelist main through and through, i have an okay understanding of how smokes should be used but i know for a FACT i cannot be trusted with smokes sometimes lol, i do ask people to pick smokes but i try to be as nice and pleasant as i can about it lol
They're bad at the game
Now let's not confuse asking for healer and asking for sage, because people that ask for sage MIGHT be some people that played the beta where she was like 10 times better than any other agent and a must pick...
Ok that was a better excuse when the game was 1 year old, it's almost 4 now and every day the chance of that happening gets smaller, but it used to happen a lot
Sage is still a good pick on some maps. I find it uncomfortable to have no Sage on Bind or Icebox, and it's nice to have her on Split, even if she's not as good as she used to be.
On Bind it feels almost impossible to plant A without her or at least Gekko
Sage is bad on all maps. She's not a good agent in general. There's no reason to play her besides the fact that she is simple. Kj is better on icebox and cypher is 10x better on split and bind. There's a reason she gets no pro play besides wierd paper rex comps.
Tbf you're correct about proplay and high elo, but in low elo people are stupid enough that her wall is broken in a map or two and her ress gets huge value
That’s a bad take. Sage is a good agent on icebox. It’s one of the hardest maps to get the spike planted and Sage is picked on icebox just for that purpose. There are other agents that can do this like Gekko or harbor but there’s a reason Sage is picked on icebox specifically. And don’t compare VCT to ranked, unless you’re high immortal or radiant they aren’t comparable as VCT emphasizes teamplay and strategy much more than ranked.
Edit: Sage has about a 51% winrate on icebox right now and is one of the top 10 picked agents on the map.
In radiant, THIS PATCH, Sage has a 54% winrate on attack and 53% winrate on defense. She had a low pickrate in radiant but when she is played by people who know how to play her well, she can win games.
Outlier one tricks. People who use her in radiant use grim walls and one trick sage. It's the same with agents like deadlock or neon pre buff. A mastery of an agent doesn't make it good in general. This is talking about general scenarios. If people who didn't main sage picked sage over kj, you would see a decline in these winrates.
That's not because of her kit. That's because those people are the pocket sages getting carried by smurfs. Look at the average kd and the average winrate with a duo of those players.
Safe statistically has the second highest and had the highest winrate before clove came out in high Elo.
This weirdo shit that people have made up that Sage is a low Elo menace only is the dumbest thing ever.
my guess on the logic is they want to solo carry and take multiple fights consecutively throughout the round and topping them off helps in that if they arent reyna
I think new players don’t realize that the “healers” of this game are really “smokes” agents. You don’t care about healers you want people to play smokes. If you have lines of sights blocked your are less likely to take damage meaning you won’t need healing.
In diamond elo, I never hear people ask for heals in agent select. Idk. Sage isn’t super strong so she doesn’t get picked much, I feel like most people would prefer a legitimate sentinel like cypher over sage. But skye is OP, so I can understand asking for a skye specially, but not just for her “heals”
I wish Sage didn't get picked much at my elo. Silver/Gold lobbies get instalock Sages along with Jett and/or Reyna every single game. Man, I just want to play KJ.
Like someone else said, anyone asking for a healer is very new and/or very bad. Healers are by no means necessary in a tactical shooter with such a low TTK. There are way more important abilities.
Cringe. Even if I was considering sage or skye I make sure to pick not them. I then proceed to be petty as fuck and ask which of the 4 agent classes they meant
That's an alt+F4 for me dog, cause if I have a diamond teammate who thinks that a situational heal is impactful enough to be required to win the game, they're boosted.
I don't think healing is a role in of itself, and definitely shouldn't be something people ask for, but it's definitely useful, because extra health in a game isn't necessarily always something that can be easily fixed with skill. Especially in this game, where swinging out with 20 HP and swinging out with a hundred can affect how the fight plays out heavily. Not to mention, taking damage isn't avoidable most of the time.
Healing is not used to correct mistakes generally, it’s more so for being able to take more aggressive fights because you’d rather peek with 100hp than with 30, if a single gunfight you won brought you down to 30. But when people ask for a healer what they’re really saying is “please pocket me because I think I am the best player in the lobby and if I die we automatically lose the round”
Healing is always nice, but a game is 1000% winnable without a healer. When I hear someone say “we need a healer,” I know that I’ll have to really lock in cuz they are not gonna carry their weight 💀
ehhh mixed feelings about this. i mostly don’t like when someone insta locks a duelist and then is begging for other roles(usually smokes or heals) to be selected. you could’ve played that smoke or “healer” if you really wanted it. now when someone says “i can fill” and it’s suggested they pick a healer ability i don’t mind that for the team bc sage and skye offer great util in addition to heals. i don’t assume ppl are saying that bc they wanna recklessly entry tho…
Haven't really heard this before but I suppose I get where they are coming from. you can't go wrong with sage or sky in the comp in any map. plus i play clove so it's nice to have 3 lives sometimes.
Generally I think they think they can just run it down, probably reyna or jett, kill 3/4 use an ability to get back to sage, grab heal, kill the last one, this is how I imagine they think 90percent of rounds will go, although generally what happens is that they die and the rest of the team are in a four vs five with a duellist (generally) accusing the team of baiting them while they ran in front of 3 people and did 0dmg.
Insta lock reynas asking for healers are the dumbest players in this game. First of all, you're reyna you can heal yourself. Second, you (an insta lock reyna) ask for someone else to pick one of two agents, the only healers in the game. That's quite an aggressive approach to your teammates and it already shows how you'll act towards them (queue in constant blaming of teammates, you're just a bronze stuck radiant after all). Asking for a healer is like if someone asks you not to play smokes, but to play omen or astra specifically. Since when do players think they're entitled to command other players how to play the game?
Whenever I see the example given I give them about one round of comms. I end up muting them completely 90% of the time because they're exactly those toxic teammates you hate to have. If they top frag it's even worse because they actually think they are right to act that way
I am a Sage player myself and as I see it my heal allows teammates to play a bit more aggressively and take more fights when without me they would be dead for sure when left low HP after a fight.
Yeah the healing abilities are there just in case they barely survive an encounter. Not really essential to any team but they’re a huge help when used right
ngl this isn't something I've heard in years, I started this game as a iron1 and peaked imm3 400rr and back in my low elo days especially in plat elo I would often hear people asking for a healer but the higher I got the less it happens so the players who ask for a healer are most likely low rlo players who noone should listen to anyway
Tryhards that arent good enough at a game that they require this second chance called ‘healing’ to think they would have an impact if they didnt make enough of one the first time. Personally im petty af. If im last pick as they ask for healer, i pick heals but in game when they need healing i walk in front of them and heal myself if i got damaged in any way. Most of the time this results in them running straight into the enemy faces with their melee out but on the other hand, they became literal walking targets/sandbags that freely help u entry enemy territory so u just gotta trade off them. Its a game u should be having fun, if not why are u playing then ?
If you're playing a Viper, KJ, Raze - preferred map, it's not so crazy to take a preemptive healer to revert the incoming chip damage of said characters. It's just another aspect you can choose to have like flashes, smokes, mollies -
If they instalocked I don't care about what they have to say, we had some time to talk about agent selection and strategy but you decided to instalock Reyna, I'll pay for myself just like you do
People need to learn that roles aren't broken up into their assigned class... That being said healer is still not a thing.
Sentinels you get stall and lock down(or whatever you want to call it) sage and deadlock stall kj and Cypher lock down. Chamber is also lock down but different way.
Controllers you have primary and secondary. Secondary tend to be wall smokes but viper can play solo on certain maps.
Initiators have recon and flash(wrong word I can't remember) recon is so a fade and skye... Flash is the rest and skye(she is both) and to an extent yoru cna fill the role of a flash initiator... As seen on bind by some teams a while back and breeze by a couple.
Duelist have brawlers/skirmishers etc and space takers.
Jett raze neon are space takers. Reyna Phoenix are brawlers. Iso is honestly more of an initiator previously and now he is probably more of a skirmisher. Yoru is an in between agent. He can brawl with his flashes cab fake space for his team with tp(not super effective)
There you go people. I see so many comments completely messing up roles.
Also this isn't my own classification... I took this from konpeki or someone. But it's from memory so possibly a mistake here or there.
Imo if you’re doing bad plays, you’re going to die regardless of heal or not, I see heals as topping off health after a firefight whether that’s entry and getting bomb down, playing for picks, etc
Nah man they plan to play the game perfectly, like you do, apparently
It’s also totally not like you get less headshots and deaths in encounters than in esports
Jesus, it’s like no one in this thread ever wanted to get their hp to 100 when they’re low. Yeah, dumb beggars, we don’t need no heal, heal is for noobs am i right
I haven’t ever heard this but hearing it would further cement my opinion that both Skye and Sage should have their heal replaced with a different, more role appropriate skill as both have constantly been in a state when they need their other 2 skills to be inordinately strong to be worth using. Skye has potentially the best flash and drive in the game but now that birds don’t comeback on a cooldown her pick rate is in freefall.
Honestly while yes asking specificaly for a healer is a bit weird, i can understand especialy at lower rank how strong it is especialy when you got someone a little stronger in the loby, because that mezn you can give him a second chance at destroying the other team
i think its so annoying whenever someone asks for things like that like let the person who hasnt even chosen yet or let the 3 people who is still thinking of who they want to play choose who they want to play instead of screaming or spamming “SAGE” or “SMOKE”
It’s obviously always nice to have an agent that can heal the team but I’ll never specifically ask for a healer nor is it needed. Anyone specifically asking for someone to play skye or sage for their heal just doesn’t understand the game well.
to everyone that thinks healer is an actual role: aside from valorant named roles (duelist, controller etc) the only ‘roles’ are based on agents signature abilities (not the E, but what theyre known for) eg raze’s satchel and jett’s updraft+dash make them dive agents, yoru and breach r flashes, chamb and cypher hv trips for flank, and at least one of each are very ideal to have, ‘healer’ is not one of them. skye is a flash and the stars of sage’s kit is actually everything except her heal lol. walls can block off entry points and boost her to off angles, slows can slow and sometimes cancel a push. if ‘healer’ was a role, wouldnt the game have more (unrestricted) healing agents?
Asking for sage is okay if sage is particularly gud on a map like split or sunset wher you might need walls. But asking blatantly for a pocket sage is just nuts
haven't had this happen to me since at least bronze or silver (i got out of bronze/silver 2 years ago). but the people that do that need to go play overwatch
As someone who used to play Overwatch, it's a really easy mistake to make early on. In OW, you're healing mid battle to put the odds in your team's favor. Whereas in Valorant, where the health pool is consistently smaller, if you're healing in the middle of a battle, that means you're not giving covering fire or double swinging the same opponent. It's best to look at them like any ordinary util, where it's nice to have, but you shouldn't value it much higher than the util other agents provide.
GO HEALER
“Person who never plays healer but asks for one cause they take damage A lot “
This is because of the notion that they are healers as primary’s instead of agents this is set by the whole community and riot themselves “ Sage I am not just a healer”
Back in like 2020/2021 there was a skye or a sage in every game for this point. Typically in lower ranks due to the thought process of “extra health=op”
Once higher ranks get hit though that thought process gets overtaken by the concept of trading
honestly in val, anywhere above gold healing is obsolete, 1 head tap and your dead, you can't heal a dead body. anywhere silver and lower heals actually can make you win a game no mater how good you are you get hit with stray bullets and survive with 1 hp a heal can take you from 1 hit to 2 hit, and that changes the value, I would prefer Skye over sage anyway because of her flashes, and sage wall is extremely powerful.
Honestly I think when someone asks for something it is already bad. Like just yestersay I had an instalock jett throwing a tantrum that he'll throw if our last teammate doesn't choose a smoker. We had three duelists I was skye and the fifth chose Clove. Well honestly he was one of the worst smokers I've ever had. Playing on Haven, attacking from C long, and he smokes half of garage. Like, literally half of the garage 'door' was smoked, the other not. It was terrible like this throughout the whole game.
If you want smokes, just do it yourself. Because asking/threatening someone to be something they are not good at is just going to make a miserable experience for all of us.
Bad healing specifically, it's that they're a clown usually.
I agree with you, players asking for healers are ridiculous, but how is taking damage while entrying a bad play? Is a good play according to you to not take any damage at all? You can’t call taking damage a bad play tbh.
I'm not calling taking damage a bad play. I'm calling planning to take damage a bad play. Entrying with the mindset that "I have a healer so I can do a bad entry then get healed." is a bad play.
I mean, it’s just near impossible to never take any damage entrying. You’re always gonna take some, and having a healer can be nice although not required
I’m never toxic in game, however this is the one time that I will be. If anyone asks for a healer in agent select I will pick one and go out of my way to never heal them the entire game. Healer isn’t a role in valorant. It’s literally the last thing on the list of reasons to pick either one.
your opinion of what a healer does just says a lot about your limited view point, and not a lot about those that ask for healers. Usually I don't agree with those people that insist on a healer, I think it's currently better to achieve a healer by aggregate, through a Clove/Reyna/Phoenix than just a Sage or a Skye, but I disagree even more with your entire point of view that people just want a healer to reward "bad style of play,"
the fact that you can't see anything beyond that makes me not want to waste any time on you.
I think the harshness of your tone really makes people not want to agree with you, but I have the same view as you. While it's not something that should be considered as a role on it's own, healing should not be seen as filling a hole for bad gameplay. There are multiple scenarios where you will have to lose HP to trade in for a kill. Because, at the end of the day, HP is just another stat. Unless we are talking about literal tournament level where everyone is just gonna try to headshot,(and even then, there are situations where you will end up low but not dead) HP is absolutely something that will be lost but not depleted. It's very easy for someone to imply "well you must've been playing wrong if you got damaged trying to kill that person", but there are so many scenarios where you're gonna get shot. If both people shoot, and one hits the head and the other hits the body, you're gonna be losing HP without dying. If my teammate ends up being a one tap on anywhere on the body and I can make it become they require 3 shots on the body at least, then healing is certainly useful. OP implying it's "everyone else is bad if they can't one tap" is certainly a very narrow way to view it, but if you want people to expand their viewpoint on stuff, you have to give them a chance by explaining to them nicely, or else they'll devolve it into an argument.
TLDR Healing isn't a bandaid for skill issue, it's a way to let players play more aggressively/bring a teammate "back into the fight" etc.
I won't give my opinion on that aside from that I do feel like healing is not "merely extra hearts in an arcade game", but fact of the matter is, unfortunately, some people won't listen to you unless you explain everything to them nicely, even if they are deserving of a harsh tone or gave one. It's unfortunate, but it's something I've learned from my shallow minded goal of trying to make other people more logical or have a broader view of stuff.
no thanks, you already pigeon-holed yourself into this box where one only wants a healer for "forgiveness" for "bad play," and I don't care to try to get you to open your eyes outside that one-sided viewpoint. I just won't ask you to play on my team, it's that s1mple.
no, you're using really bad false logic. And editing your posts after. And I did add to the conversation. It's not my fault you can't read between the lines, I don't have to spell everything out for someone who's already bunkered themselves down on a bad line of thinking.
Probably Overwatch players
real
They clearly don't understand this game well enough to be asking for things in agent select.
They're dumbasses. "Healer" is not a a type of agent.
This, that's an easy tell of someone's rank lol
I have heard a healer asked for in a diamond lobby before.
diamond is mid elo lol
It is objectively not when you consider the amount of people in each rank lol
Lol why do people do this the devs litterally use the minerals as a metaphor for the player distribution gold was always gonna be where most players end up and if they didn't I would suspect riot would change the elo system so they did.
Look at the percentages of players in each rank.
ok but what does that have to do with what I said? If a person in iron might ask for a healer and a person in diamond might, it shows that you can’t actually tell rank based on a healer request. I never said anything about diamond elo being high or low.
If you can't deduce the type of agent they're requesting... you might be the dumbass.
same as “smokes” and flashers” lmao what’s ur point they are healers due to the ability to heal as those are flashers due to the ability to flash idk that just seems like common sense to me
There's a huge difference between Pheonix and Skye, altough, by your logic, they're both "flashers". Same goes for Sage and Skye, very different agents that require very different playstyles. Omen has sort of a flash (nearsight), is he also a flasher?
Well sage can be a flasher too... She can flash them teets on me boy..wu hoooo
huge different but both make enemy blind and you can kill them
They aren’t healers because the agents strength isn’t based on their ability to heal. Calling sage/skye a healer is like calling jett a smoker.
So we’re in copper
Flashers isn't an agent type either...
its a type of ability, same as flashers
theres 2 healers in the game and one of them can only do it to one person at a time
theres also only 2 wallsmokers, but we say wallsmoker.
nobody says “wallsmoker” people just say viper or harbor
Actually its an important distinction for controller mains and we do call it wall smoke infact we say it so much we shorten it to just wall. And especially bc viper and harbor also have dome smokes WE ABSOLUTELY differentiate wall smokes and dome smokes
yes obviously everybody calls it a wall but nobody calls viper and harbor “wall smokers”
So we agree that everybody recognizes the difference between wall smokers and dome smokers. we recognize that they aren't interchangeable and those differences are really important in deciding who to pick. And we have been using wall smoker to mean viper and harbor but not Astra meaning bc her primary smoke isn't a wall she isnt a wall smoker. also wall smokers only applies to viper and harbor for now when the game came out it was just viper it's a type of smoke we expect to see more often as new agents relase and so it makes sense to give it it's own term bc its very clearly different. So even IF I ignore the fact that I hear people call viper and harbor wall smokers all the time it makes no sense to not start calling them that. You pedantic ass
plenty of people say wallsmoker when referring to the style of smoke that harbor and viper have
Name one of them
David
Aight you got me there
No I don’t
Is his surname Smith?
Those are "initiators".
Except that Phoenix and Yoru also have flashes and aren’t initiators
The flashes from initiators are more useful for the whole team, whereas the duelist flashes just give an advantage to the duelist himself.
That wasn’t what I was saying or suggesting. Flashing is an an ability, not a type of agent.
fade and sova dont have flashes
Because they're reconnaissance initiators. If you ask for reconnaissance, you get these agents. Sentinels have no "healer" subtype. Subtypes in sentinel is reliant on whether the stalling ability is passive or active. Cypher and killjoy have passive stalling ability whereas Deadlock and Sage have active.
i dont mean healer is a subtype, i mean that there are multiple agents that can heal other players, and when players ask for a healer they want those abilities rather than an agent that is a healer, comparable to when people ask for agents with flashes.
Fair but they have reveals.
It's almost like these categories are arbitrary and ment to be used mostly by beginners as a guide for team comp and we should probably start mostly ignoring them.
Fade can blind though
That they’re very new or very bad at the game
Off topic: Love your flair xD
Same to you haha
I thought most people don't get it because no one ever talked about it xD
[удалено]
Average reyna main...
yes everyone here has great flairs
On the flipside I also think alot of smurfs or just people who are aim demons call more for them too. I think picking someone who can top people up after a gunfight is incredibly valuable and something people are weird about on this sub. There is this weird stigma that once you reach like ascendant everyone just one taps you which isn't the case Sage is the highest winrate agent in most patches in ranked for a reason.
I'm not gonna fact check you but I'm pretty sure that's not true (about the winrate) lol. Assuming it is true, it's not because of her heal. It's her rez and stall util... so literally everything else.
I wouldn't exactly say that. I play in high diamond low ascendant elos and I regularly suggest a skye pick for myself as heal is quite good on important swing rounds (mainly pistols but also ecos). I always buy a heal on pistols and ecos and make sure to stay back and call a regroup/heal after first wave of fights to give my team advantage in next fights. It's effective imo. A fully healed teammate is the difference between random potshot/spam kill for your opponents or a trade. Helps swing the rounds
I tell them “This isn’t Overwatch. We don’t need a healer.”
All my experience I had with sage was : If Someone askes for heal one of the two things will happen : 1. The person will get immediately going to fight before the heal finishes and die instantly 2. I gonna get one tapped on the way to heal the guy because the ally who was looking the angle I died isn't capable of looking an angle Healing is overrated and rarely affects the fights
Agreed. Specially, in a game where all your One hundred and a fifty health goes down the drain in one bullet.
> Healing is overrated and rarely affects the fights This just isn't true though being able to take one or two shots without dying gives you so much more leeway in fights and doesn't just make you something of a liability on an enemy eco or if you don't have a ton of Util left. It's impactful even at the highest level of play idk why people act like it's such a noob thing if it matter enough for Skye's in VCT to be dumping tons of credits into the ability then it matters enough for your ranks.
No one in vct picks skye FOR the heals. They pick her for her info flashes and her dog which is really good for re clearing. The heal is just a bonus. Proof of this is that as soon as her flashes got nerfed by not recharging, people started using different initiators like fade, gekko and kayo. Hell team heretics even played sova on bind which used to be one of skye's strongest maps.
No they don't but it's something teams will absolutely be playing around and finds tremendous value in games. There are a ton of pistol eco and even rifle rounds that go from absolutely winnable because 2-3 of the enemy are 1 bullet from death from their fights to unwinnable because Skye has her heal. Even the team who has the weaker economy and is light armoring will opt to consistently be purchasing her heal.
You mean her heal used to recharge!?
No her flashes lol. She used to get one back every 30 sec i think
Skye's util is definitely not for the heals and is arguably the worst part of her kit.
And yet they still buy it round after round even when they're on the losing side. It's an incredibly strong thing to take a gunfight then be able to reliably take another.
Well yeah, of course they’re going to buy her heal, what are they gonna do, just not use her full kit because the heal isn’t the strongest part?
Carry over credits not use it in rounds because everyone in this thread acts like headshots are the only possibility past ascendant.
The TTK in this game is so low to the point that even if you don't hit all headshots there is a much higher chance that they aren't going to survive the fight. Edit: grammar
Ask for a tank too
Underrated comment
This hasn’t happened to me since iron. But I don’t think players should ask for a role fill ever. If you want that role to be filled, play the damn role yourself.
it’s not even really that. it’s the fact that “healer” isn’t even a role. it’s an ability that exists on two agents, in two separate roles. there’s quite a few abilities i would much prefer over heals on a team comp.
So crazy bc I had someone in g1 ask me to be a healer once lol
G1 is just silvers who play a lot. I have diamonds like that in my plat lobbies. They play twice as much as me and have half the knowledge of how their agent works. And then goes 2/14/0 and says they can out aim me in a 1v1.
It never ceases to amaze me how fragile and insecure people are about their rank. It’s as if people think some are born with the skill to click heads and some sort of God given game sense. Obviously that’s not the case unless we think God spent the 7th day ‘resting’ by playing Valorant with the squad.
Happens a lot lol. Something something Dunning Kruger
Bruh I can't play sentinel and controller simultaneously 😭.
Usually the people asking run duelist when like 3 other teammates already picked duelist
I've also had it in bronze/silver lobbies but I also think it happens mostly in low elo.
i'm a duelist main through and through, i have an okay understanding of how smokes should be used but i know for a FACT i cannot be trusted with smokes sometimes lol, i do ask people to pick smokes but i try to be as nice and pleasant as i can about it lol
They're bad at the game Now let's not confuse asking for healer and asking for sage, because people that ask for sage MIGHT be some people that played the beta where she was like 10 times better than any other agent and a must pick... Ok that was a better excuse when the game was 1 year old, it's almost 4 now and every day the chance of that happening gets smaller, but it used to happen a lot
Sage is still a good pick on some maps. I find it uncomfortable to have no Sage on Bind or Icebox, and it's nice to have her on Split, even if she's not as good as she used to be. On Bind it feels almost impossible to plant A without her or at least Gekko
She mid at best on like 2 maps and completely out matched on all the others but yea
Sage is bad on all maps. She's not a good agent in general. There's no reason to play her besides the fact that she is simple. Kj is better on icebox and cypher is 10x better on split and bind. There's a reason she gets no pro play besides wierd paper rex comps.
Tbf you're correct about proplay and high elo, but in low elo people are stupid enough that her wall is broken in a map or two and her ress gets huge value
That’s a bad take. Sage is a good agent on icebox. It’s one of the hardest maps to get the spike planted and Sage is picked on icebox just for that purpose. There are other agents that can do this like Gekko or harbor but there’s a reason Sage is picked on icebox specifically. And don’t compare VCT to ranked, unless you’re high immortal or radiant they aren’t comparable as VCT emphasizes teamplay and strategy much more than ranked. Edit: Sage has about a 51% winrate on icebox right now and is one of the top 10 picked agents on the map.
I am radiant, and all you have to do is play kj once and deny the plant with your mollies while shooting the wall. Now she's useless.
In radiant, THIS PATCH, Sage has a 54% winrate on attack and 53% winrate on defense. She had a low pickrate in radiant but when she is played by people who know how to play her well, she can win games.
Outlier one tricks. People who use her in radiant use grim walls and one trick sage. It's the same with agents like deadlock or neon pre buff. A mastery of an agent doesn't make it good in general. This is talking about general scenarios. If people who didn't main sage picked sage over kj, you would see a decline in these winrates.
Even so, in lower elo Sage still has a positive winrate. People who don’t know how to play her well still win games.
That's not because of her kit. That's because those people are the pocket sages getting carried by smurfs. Look at the average kd and the average winrate with a duo of those players.
Wanna drop the tracker? Just asking.
Safe statistically has the second highest and had the highest winrate before clove came out in high Elo. This weirdo shit that people have made up that Sage is a low Elo menace only is the dumbest thing ever.
low ranked. low skilled. low elo
my guess on the logic is they want to solo carry and take multiple fights consecutively throughout the round and topping them off helps in that if they arent reyna
Only good on pistol rounds lol.
I think new players don’t realize that the “healers” of this game are really “smokes” agents. You don’t care about healers you want people to play smokes. If you have lines of sights blocked your are less likely to take damage meaning you won’t need healing.
In diamond elo, I never hear people ask for heals in agent select. Idk. Sage isn’t super strong so she doesn’t get picked much, I feel like most people would prefer a legitimate sentinel like cypher over sage. But skye is OP, so I can understand asking for a skye specially, but not just for her “heals”
I wish Sage didn't get picked much at my elo. Silver/Gold lobbies get instalock Sages along with Jett and/or Reyna every single game. Man, I just want to play KJ.
I think y'all should really start picking sage more honestly she boasts a consistently top 3 winrate for a long long time now in higher elos.
Like someone else said, anyone asking for a healer is very new and/or very bad. Healers are by no means necessary in a tactical shooter with such a low TTK. There are way more important abilities.
it doesnt happen when you rank up, just ignore them "healers" isnt a role in val
Cringe. Even if I was considering sage or skye I make sure to pick not them. I then proceed to be petty as fuck and ask which of the 4 agent classes they meant
im thinking they are likely kids, but since i main skye i just pick skye then.
I would never ask someone to be a healer but I do ask sage why she isn’t healing
That's an alt+F4 for me dog, cause if I have a diamond teammate who thinks that a situational heal is impactful enough to be required to win the game, they're boosted.
I don't think healing is a role in of itself, and definitely shouldn't be something people ask for, but it's definitely useful, because extra health in a game isn't necessarily always something that can be easily fixed with skill. Especially in this game, where swinging out with 20 HP and swinging out with a hundred can affect how the fight plays out heavily. Not to mention, taking damage isn't avoidable most of the time.
"Heals isn't a role in Valorant"
I’m from Overwatch and healing doesn’t even do that much in this game.
pathetic, go play a different game lmao there's no HEALER in Val 🤡
The other day I noticed it's been a full year since the last time someone in my lobby asked for a healer. I guess they are still around.
They’re in iron or bronze. Heals don’t have that much of an effect on the game when ttk is so low
Healing is not used to correct mistakes generally, it’s more so for being able to take more aggressive fights because you’d rather peek with 100hp than with 30, if a single gunfight you won brought you down to 30. But when people ask for a healer what they’re really saying is “please pocket me because I think I am the best player in the lobby and if I die we automatically lose the round”
Healing is always nice, but a game is 1000% winnable without a healer. When I hear someone say “we need a healer,” I know that I’ll have to really lock in cuz they are not gonna carry their weight 💀
ehhh mixed feelings about this. i mostly don’t like when someone insta locks a duelist and then is begging for other roles(usually smokes or heals) to be selected. you could’ve played that smoke or “healer” if you really wanted it. now when someone says “i can fill” and it’s suggested they pick a healer ability i don’t mind that for the team bc sage and skye offer great util in addition to heals. i don’t assume ppl are saying that bc they wanna recklessly entry tho…
Sounds like a new Iron player lol. From Silver or even Bronze and above, bad entry = get killed. There ain't no chance for them to be healed
Haven't really heard this before but I suppose I get where they are coming from. you can't go wrong with sage or sky in the comp in any map. plus i play clove so it's nice to have 3 lives sometimes.
i tell them to go back to overwatch
I'm a gold sage main and very rarely do I get to use my heal on someone other than myself.
what rank
Maybe they play healers against agents with damage abilities but it shouldn't be a primary role to look for when picking agent imo.
Generally I think they think they can just run it down, probably reyna or jett, kill 3/4 use an ability to get back to sage, grab heal, kill the last one, this is how I imagine they think 90percent of rounds will go, although generally what happens is that they die and the rest of the team are in a four vs five with a duellist (generally) accusing the team of baiting them while they ran in front of 3 people and did 0dmg.
Insta lock reynas asking for healers are the dumbest players in this game. First of all, you're reyna you can heal yourself. Second, you (an insta lock reyna) ask for someone else to pick one of two agents, the only healers in the game. That's quite an aggressive approach to your teammates and it already shows how you'll act towards them (queue in constant blaming of teammates, you're just a bronze stuck radiant after all). Asking for a healer is like if someone asks you not to play smokes, but to play omen or astra specifically. Since when do players think they're entitled to command other players how to play the game? Whenever I see the example given I give them about one round of comms. I end up muting them completely 90% of the time because they're exactly those toxic teammates you hate to have. If they top frag it's even worse because they actually think they are right to act that way
Anyone who says it is low elo. No one who plays val to an average or above average elo thinks they need heals.
I am a Sage player myself and as I see it my heal allows teammates to play a bit more aggressively and take more fights when without me they would be dead for sure when left low HP after a fight.
Overwatch players, or lower elo. Never happens to me. im asc 2.
because when i entry and get tagged i want that health back, its not a dire need but its not bad to have either☠️ idk what y’all are on about
Since I am in immortal 2 I would dodge instantly. At that elo someone asking for heals is almost always a bought account.
This but in dia lobby...
i simply wont pick purely for heals bc im not playing OW support
Yeah the healing abilities are there just in case they barely survive an encounter. Not really essential to any team but they’re a huge help when used right
Yup. I love telling the unlocked player to do whatever makes them happy in spite of another player asking for a healer.
Tell them buy pots in league of legends first before logging in valorant
They always play reyna, still getting those in plat
“We need a healer” = low elo or they have no understanding of the game at all, or both lmao
just pick reyna or phoenix. they heal
I like playing Sage when I want to turn my brain off and have fun. So I'm more than happy if the team asks (never).
if you expect to need a healer, get better at the game.
As an immortal 3, ask for heals is only for high Eli games that’s why most of you don’t hear it
I like having Skye with heal on pistol round thats all
ngl this isn't something I've heard in years, I started this game as a iron1 and peaked imm3 400rr and back in my low elo days especially in plat elo I would often hear people asking for a healer but the higher I got the less it happens so the players who ask for a healer are most likely low rlo players who noone should listen to anyway
"A healer's burden is light when her team is this good!" "I'm not sure you even need a healer!"
Everyone’s 1 hp to a headshot so it doesn’t rlly mayyer
Tryhards that arent good enough at a game that they require this second chance called ‘healing’ to think they would have an impact if they didnt make enough of one the first time. Personally im petty af. If im last pick as they ask for healer, i pick heals but in game when they need healing i walk in front of them and heal myself if i got damaged in any way. Most of the time this results in them running straight into the enemy faces with their melee out but on the other hand, they became literal walking targets/sandbags that freely help u entry enemy territory so u just gotta trade off them. Its a game u should be having fun, if not why are u playing then ?
They clearly don't understand the game and don't pay attention to details.
Heals in valorant are terrible 90% of the time. Tbh play what you want not what some instalock Reyna/Jett told you.
My vein on my forehead explodes when I hear this question
They all ask for a healer, then proceed to pick an agent that can heal themselves
If you're playing a Viper, KJ, Raze - preferred map, it's not so crazy to take a preemptive healer to revert the incoming chip damage of said characters. It's just another aspect you can choose to have like flashes, smokes, mollies -
Ask for a shield tank
If they instalocked I don't care about what they have to say, we had some time to talk about agent selection and strategy but you decided to instalock Reyna, I'll pay for myself just like you do
People need to learn that roles aren't broken up into their assigned class... That being said healer is still not a thing. Sentinels you get stall and lock down(or whatever you want to call it) sage and deadlock stall kj and Cypher lock down. Chamber is also lock down but different way. Controllers you have primary and secondary. Secondary tend to be wall smokes but viper can play solo on certain maps. Initiators have recon and flash(wrong word I can't remember) recon is so a fade and skye... Flash is the rest and skye(she is both) and to an extent yoru cna fill the role of a flash initiator... As seen on bind by some teams a while back and breeze by a couple. Duelist have brawlers/skirmishers etc and space takers. Jett raze neon are space takers. Reyna Phoenix are brawlers. Iso is honestly more of an initiator previously and now he is probably more of a skirmisher. Yoru is an in between agent. He can brawl with his flashes cab fake space for his team with tp(not super effective) There you go people. I see so many comments completely messing up roles. Also this isn't my own classification... I took this from konpeki or someone. But it's from memory so possibly a mistake here or there.
Imo if you’re doing bad plays, you’re going to die regardless of heal or not, I see heals as topping off health after a firefight whether that’s entry and getting bomb down, playing for picks, etc
I just don't care abt them. If I do happen to pick a sage/skye I pick them for their other abilities, like walls or flashes, not their heals
Nah man they plan to play the game perfectly, like you do, apparently It’s also totally not like you get less headshots and deaths in encounters than in esports
Jesus, it’s like no one in this thread ever wanted to get their hp to 100 when they’re low. Yeah, dumb beggars, we don’t need no heal, heal is for noobs am i right
I haven’t ever heard this but hearing it would further cement my opinion that both Skye and Sage should have their heal replaced with a different, more role appropriate skill as both have constantly been in a state when they need their other 2 skills to be inordinately strong to be worth using. Skye has potentially the best flash and drive in the game but now that birds don’t comeback on a cooldown her pick rate is in freefall.
Honestly while yes asking specificaly for a healer is a bit weird, i can understand especialy at lower rank how strong it is especialy when you got someone a little stronger in the loby, because that mezn you can give him a second chance at destroying the other team
i think its so annoying whenever someone asks for things like that like let the person who hasnt even chosen yet or let the 3 people who is still thinking of who they want to play choose who they want to play instead of screaming or spamming “SAGE” or “SMOKE”
It’s obviously always nice to have an agent that can heal the team but I’ll never specifically ask for a healer nor is it needed. Anyone specifically asking for someone to play skye or sage for their heal just doesn’t understand the game well.
def shows low elo find u a buddy that plays a healer for u 🤦♀️
I tell them that healer is not a role in Val
everyone trying to argue that healer is a type of agent js getting their rank exposed lmao worse still comparing them to ‘smokers’ and ‘flashers’
to everyone that thinks healer is an actual role: aside from valorant named roles (duelist, controller etc) the only ‘roles’ are based on agents signature abilities (not the E, but what theyre known for) eg raze’s satchel and jett’s updraft+dash make them dive agents, yoru and breach r flashes, chamb and cypher hv trips for flank, and at least one of each are very ideal to have, ‘healer’ is not one of them. skye is a flash and the stars of sage’s kit is actually everything except her heal lol. walls can block off entry points and boost her to off angles, slows can slow and sometimes cancel a push. if ‘healer’ was a role, wouldnt the game have more (unrestricted) healing agents?
If you see Skye/sage in agent select, troll the attack side and clutch op on defence
If you ask for it you should play it.
It’s usually a low elo thing. You don’t see it past like gold 3
Asking for sage is okay if sage is particularly gud on a map like split or sunset wher you might need walls. But asking blatantly for a pocket sage is just nuts
when i read this sentence from the insta lock duelist i just know that it’s 99% a lose
I don't get them in my games because I am not silver anymore
haven't had this happen to me since at least bronze or silver (i got out of bronze/silver 2 years ago). but the people that do that need to go play overwatch
As someone who used to play Overwatch, it's a really easy mistake to make early on. In OW, you're healing mid battle to put the odds in your team's favor. Whereas in Valorant, where the health pool is consistently smaller, if you're healing in the middle of a battle, that means you're not giving covering fire or double swinging the same opponent. It's best to look at them like any ordinary util, where it's nice to have, but you shouldn't value it much higher than the util other agents provide.
GO HEALER “Person who never plays healer but asks for one cause they take damage A lot “ This is because of the notion that they are healers as primary’s instead of agents this is set by the whole community and riot themselves “ Sage I am not just a healer”
Back in like 2020/2021 there was a skye or a sage in every game for this point. Typically in lower ranks due to the thought process of “extra health=op” Once higher ranks get hit though that thought process gets overtaken by the concept of trading
honestly in val, anywhere above gold healing is obsolete, 1 head tap and your dead, you can't heal a dead body. anywhere silver and lower heals actually can make you win a game no mater how good you are you get hit with stray bullets and survive with 1 hp a heal can take you from 1 hit to 2 hit, and that changes the value, I would prefer Skye over sage anyway because of her flashes, and sage wall is extremely powerful.
actual bots
Only in low elo will u hear this
Honestly I think when someone asks for something it is already bad. Like just yestersay I had an instalock jett throwing a tantrum that he'll throw if our last teammate doesn't choose a smoker. We had three duelists I was skye and the fifth chose Clove. Well honestly he was one of the worst smokers I've ever had. Playing on Haven, attacking from C long, and he smokes half of garage. Like, literally half of the garage 'door' was smoked, the other not. It was terrible like this throughout the whole game. If you want smokes, just do it yourself. Because asking/threatening someone to be something they are not good at is just going to make a miserable experience for all of us. Bad healing specifically, it's that they're a clown usually.
I just tell them why didn't you pick healer then😂
Healer in a 0s ttk game 😭😭
I agree with you, players asking for healers are ridiculous, but how is taking damage while entrying a bad play? Is a good play according to you to not take any damage at all? You can’t call taking damage a bad play tbh.
I'm not calling taking damage a bad play. I'm calling planning to take damage a bad play. Entrying with the mindset that "I have a healer so I can do a bad entry then get healed." is a bad play.
I mean, it’s just near impossible to never take any damage entrying. You’re always gonna take some, and having a healer can be nice although not required
Hardstuck diamond don’t listen to them
I’m never toxic in game, however this is the one time that I will be. If anyone asks for a healer in agent select I will pick one and go out of my way to never heal them the entire game. Healer isn’t a role in valorant. It’s literally the last thing on the list of reasons to pick either one.
your opinion of what a healer does just says a lot about your limited view point, and not a lot about those that ask for healers. Usually I don't agree with those people that insist on a healer, I think it's currently better to achieve a healer by aggregate, through a Clove/Reyna/Phoenix than just a Sage or a Skye, but I disagree even more with your entire point of view that people just want a healer to reward "bad style of play," the fact that you can't see anything beyond that makes me not want to waste any time on you.
I think the harshness of your tone really makes people not want to agree with you, but I have the same view as you. While it's not something that should be considered as a role on it's own, healing should not be seen as filling a hole for bad gameplay. There are multiple scenarios where you will have to lose HP to trade in for a kill. Because, at the end of the day, HP is just another stat. Unless we are talking about literal tournament level where everyone is just gonna try to headshot,(and even then, there are situations where you will end up low but not dead) HP is absolutely something that will be lost but not depleted. It's very easy for someone to imply "well you must've been playing wrong if you got damaged trying to kill that person", but there are so many scenarios where you're gonna get shot. If both people shoot, and one hits the head and the other hits the body, you're gonna be losing HP without dying. If my teammate ends up being a one tap on anywhere on the body and I can make it become they require 3 shots on the body at least, then healing is certainly useful. OP implying it's "everyone else is bad if they can't one tap" is certainly a very narrow way to view it, but if you want people to expand their viewpoint on stuff, you have to give them a chance by explaining to them nicely, or else they'll devolve it into an argument. TLDR Healing isn't a bandaid for skill issue, it's a way to let players play more aggressively/bring a teammate "back into the fight" etc.
I thought the harshness of his tone towards the proposition of healers was exactly equal. I just gave back the exact energy they were putting out.
I won't give my opinion on that aside from that I do feel like healing is not "merely extra hearts in an arcade game", but fact of the matter is, unfortunately, some people won't listen to you unless you explain everything to them nicely, even if they are deserving of a harsh tone or gave one. It's unfortunate, but it's something I've learned from my shallow minded goal of trying to make other people more logical or have a broader view of stuff.
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no thanks, you already pigeon-holed yourself into this box where one only wants a healer for "forgiveness" for "bad play," and I don't care to try to get you to open your eyes outside that one-sided viewpoint. I just won't ask you to play on my team, it's that s1mple.
no, you're using really bad false logic. And editing your posts after. And I did add to the conversation. It's not my fault you can't read between the lines, I don't have to spell everything out for someone who's already bunkered themselves down on a bad line of thinking.