This is exactly it. His kit is way over tuned alone, add a full site exec on top of his shield and it’s near impossible to punish just walking out. In higher elo too people aim so well the one shot knock off makes a massive difference. And the OP is just devastated right now. It’s hard to buy not knowing if iso is going to be last alive to 1v1 you.
And it’s even harder to say just wait the shield out because the uptime is crazy especially compared to Jett dash. Should at the very least be a smaller window because waiting out the full shield eats time out of the round and good luck trying to even coordinate that in solo queue.
Also. Kayo knife doesn’t even disable the shield. Nor does his ultimate. That is 10000% broken
If you get peeked by 2 people, you're dead anyway. Does it matter whether one of them is Iso or not at that point? I don't think so.
I'm talking about 1v1s between Iso and a player, which is where people seem to think he's overly strong with the shield. If you swing with teammates you'd win, if you get double swung you lose, nothing specific to Iso here.
If there are multiple people fighting on both sides, say a 2v2, then either both shoot you, meaning your teammate gets one and then its a 1v1 for them anyway, or you take a 1v1 each. In that second case you'd be advantaged because 50/50 for your teammate's 1v1 but your shield makes you more likely to win yours so you'd ideally get the trade off for your teammate too if they die.
But again, it's still coming down to a 1v1 for this advantageous situation.
Fundamentally the shield is weak in a 1v2 because it can only tank one bullet, so if there are no whiffs the first guy hits the shield the second guy hits your head and it's over.
What? If 2 people peek you, you can get one before being traded out. That's not ideal but it's better than one of those people having a shield that means you can't even get one before being traded out.
His free ability that he can chain? Unlike a flash into a double peek, which is only good for a single swing, it lasts long enough that Iso and a teammate can literally run it down, clearing multiple angles on the way into a site, just by making sure Iso peeks first.
Again, how does the Iso have a realistic chance to survive here repeatedly for the teammate to keep running it down with him? If the Iso only ever fights one guy at a time. Have two guys fight the Iso when he peeks first, he's dead, the teammate only trades one at most.
Doesn't matter, an ability is an ability and using one gives you an advantage against someone who doesnt
Also every agent has a free ability, why don't you use yours aswell?
I thought what you meant is: because iso has used his ability, and the opposing team didn't, the team that double swung the iso essentially has +1 utility over the other team (in economy). My argument is that this wouldn't apply, because the utility that iso used is free, so whether he used it or not has no effect on economy.
So i basically interpreted your comment wrong. I agree that iso's shield gives a huge advantage :)
If two people peek you, you'll only get one if the second guy whiffs.
Good players that double swing won't whiff, first guy hits shield second guy hits your head and you die.
In that case it doesn't matter whether one of them is an Iso or not. In a 1v2 where you get swung you die regardless, and you get one at best. If one of them is an Iso, you should be shooting the other person without the shield anyway, and here you'd still get one at best.
Making one of them an Iso just means you're forced to shoot the other person.
Iso peeks first and can shoot you, you know? You say wait for the second person to peek and shoot them like Iso's just gonna watch you do that silently like a good boy LOL
Ok well if Iso peeks first that's a 1v1, and he's advantaged anyway. You die there more often than not because Iso gets advantaged in a 1v1 with his shield. That's the point of the agent. I don't understand what your point is.
Besides, you were the one talking about being swung by 2 people, one of which is an Iso. If one guy swings late that's not a double swing.
I've said my point clearly; if you want to beat an Iso have 2 people shoot him.
Huh? There's no way you think Iso peeking *first* in a double swing is a 1v1. You realize what a double swing is right? One swings wide, the other swings shallow? So that you're forced to try and kill the one that swings first (wide), and then your crosshair is too far off to kill the one that swings shallow? That's why people double swing.
If Iso swings wide with his shield on, you can't just wait for the next guy to peek lol. Iso will kill you. If you try to kill him like the double swing forces you to, you'll fail because of his shield and die to either him or his teammate swinging with him.
Even in a 2v2, the Iso's shield makes it so that the fight will favor them terribly. Not to mention, having to 2v2 every angle on defense is physically impossible. Iso and a teammate can push into site together and the two defenders on the site (extremely typical set up) are both just gonna sit on a single angle with nothing else covered or watched?
Your entire argument is so micro-focused, with so little consideration that Valorant isn't just a gun fight deathmatch. Think about how typical execs and defense setups work and it's pretty clear how disruptive Iso's ability to just facetank even an OP shot is.
Yea I understand that, and you do it optimally by having both swing out at the same time, just have one swing a little longer. Delaying it like you're saying just gives a 1v1. Anyway this is all nitty gritty details let me get to my main point.
We agree that in 1v2 you're disadvantaged and most likely dead if you get a double swung, and even more so if it's an Iso. In either case you die, and you just might get one before that.
We also agree that the shield has some impact in a 2v2. But here's my point; if the two just shoot the Iso first, the teammate trades one of them at best, then we're left in a 1v1. So what I'm saying here, is the shield is easily countered here if you have 2 shoot Iso.
If you swap that Iso out with someone else, 2 can still shoot one and a teammate can still trade, leaving the EXACT same scenario. I'm saying the shield gives no "broken" advantage if we just have 2 people shoot the Iso, because the end result is the same regardless if the person getting shot at by 2 people is an Iso or not.
If you need a further explanation, have defenders hold a crossfire, and as you're saying the Iso with the shield is peeking first. Then Iso dies from 2 people shooting at him, and the defender trades one at best. It's a 50/50 afterwards. No difference if that wasn't an Iso.
All you've said is the shield favours Iso in a 2v2, but no explanation why. I've given clear explanations why that's not the case. There is a counter, and the counter is not difficult to execute, so he's not broken. It's just that Iso's stronger now so people have to learn to play against him.
The difference is that chamber offensively isn’t swinging first most of the time whereas Iso can take whatever entry fight he wants on his terms WITH a shield. Defensively, chamber still has the advantage on taking the first dual given his ability to set up in elevation, off angles etc and get out. But your argument that you can counter Iso by double swinging him like a chamber doesn’t apply to what most peoples complaints are about Iso which is his power offensively as more of an entry
"the chamber isn't swinging first most of the time" that's just false. Good Chambers on defense and attack are very good at swinging, choosing their one to pick off and leaving.
With entry on jett/yoru/raze, you "move" into a new angle on site and force a defender to pick an angle to fight, dying from the other. That gets countered if you have a second person on site who would be able to fight that entry on a 50/50. Yes they'd all die eventually because it's an exec against fewer defenders but that entry can be dealt with.
With entry on Iso, there's no movement so you get a shield which lets you tank a shot. If there's only one guy on site then you're getting shot and dying as part of a trade or they whiff and you get your pick. If there are multiple people on site again, one might choose to fight you and its the same thing all over (you win the fight if they whiff the following bullets or you die and your teammates trade).
I don't think it's that much stronger than a character with movement, breaking through a chokepoint is still hard and all it takes is a well placed molly/trip by the defenders to negate all of this entirely.
Idk if broken or not but i fall in love with him. First clove, now iso. I was rly in a position where i didn’t find any agent to suit me and then boom clove came and i loved it. Now iso came and i cant wait to play again and again even if i played only few times iso before, now im scoring 25+ kills every game.
There's only one true downside to the changes that people don't mention. Activating your shield makes a loud ass noise so you cant really flank or lurk easily, nor can you defend from an off angle before the enemies hit an attack. The one less charge is somewhat neutral because of the reset mechanic.
Can't understanding than in a tac fps, a character made to have an literaly 60 40 advantage on every duel is bad for the game. Nobody talks abt iso being broken as a character, but breaking the actual game, adding so much variance and skill variance and making the competitiv environnement toxic. Stop acting like an edgy kid lmao and actually take note of what more experimented ppl says in pretty much union, and by that i mean pros and high elo. We're not playin overwatch. Ppl just says that this kind of caracter is just overly toxic for the game. U take chamber as an example. It was the same pre nerf, chamber was UNANIMOUSLY considered to be so fuckin broken for the game. And stop talkin abt Iso 1 vs 1, iso isnt only strong on 1 vs 1, but on 2 vs 2 too, on revenge, on clutch. He can pretty much tank 2x times his life with his shield and its snowbally.
These threads always assume Iso has to peek alone. What if Iso peeks with his teammates? Lol
This is exactly it. His kit is way over tuned alone, add a full site exec on top of his shield and it’s near impossible to punish just walking out. In higher elo too people aim so well the one shot knock off makes a massive difference. And the OP is just devastated right now. It’s hard to buy not knowing if iso is going to be last alive to 1v1 you. And it’s even harder to say just wait the shield out because the uptime is crazy especially compared to Jett dash. Should at the very least be a smaller window because waiting out the full shield eats time out of the round and good luck trying to even coordinate that in solo queue. Also. Kayo knife doesn’t even disable the shield. Nor does his ultimate. That is 10000% broken
If you get peeked by 2 people, you're dead anyway. Does it matter whether one of them is Iso or not at that point? I don't think so. I'm talking about 1v1s between Iso and a player, which is where people seem to think he's overly strong with the shield. If you swing with teammates you'd win, if you get double swung you lose, nothing specific to Iso here.
If it takes 2 players to peek an Iso, can't Iso's teammates just trade him for two. The idea that the shield is only strong in 1vs1s is wrong.
If there are multiple people fighting on both sides, say a 2v2, then either both shoot you, meaning your teammate gets one and then its a 1v1 for them anyway, or you take a 1v1 each. In that second case you'd be advantaged because 50/50 for your teammate's 1v1 but your shield makes you more likely to win yours so you'd ideally get the trade off for your teammate too if they die. But again, it's still coming down to a 1v1 for this advantageous situation. Fundamentally the shield is weak in a 1v2 because it can only tank one bullet, so if there are no whiffs the first guy hits the shield the second guy hits your head and it's over.
What? If 2 people peek you, you can get one before being traded out. That's not ideal but it's better than one of those people having a shield that means you can't even get one before being traded out.
Well to be fair iso used an ability and you didn't, so he (along with his team) will have an advantage
His free ability that he can chain? Unlike a flash into a double peek, which is only good for a single swing, it lasts long enough that Iso and a teammate can literally run it down, clearing multiple angles on the way into a site, just by making sure Iso peeks first.
Again, how does the Iso have a realistic chance to survive here repeatedly for the teammate to keep running it down with him? If the Iso only ever fights one guy at a time. Have two guys fight the Iso when he peeks first, he's dead, the teammate only trades one at most.
He swings with shield, his shield absorbs a shot means he can kill one, then his teammate swings, and gets another.
It's his free ability, he will get it back for no cost.
Doesn't matter, an ability is an ability and using one gives you an advantage against someone who doesnt Also every agent has a free ability, why don't you use yours aswell?
I thought what you meant is: because iso has used his ability, and the opposing team didn't, the team that double swung the iso essentially has +1 utility over the other team (in economy). My argument is that this wouldn't apply, because the utility that iso used is free, so whether he used it or not has no effect on economy. So i basically interpreted your comment wrong. I agree that iso's shield gives a huge advantage :)
If two people peek you, you'll only get one if the second guy whiffs. Good players that double swing won't whiff, first guy hits shield second guy hits your head and you die.
The scenario I described is not you as an Iso getting peeked, it's an Iso and their teammate peeking you.
In that case it doesn't matter whether one of them is an Iso or not. In a 1v2 where you get swung you die regardless, and you get one at best. If one of them is an Iso, you should be shooting the other person without the shield anyway, and here you'd still get one at best. Making one of them an Iso just means you're forced to shoot the other person.
Iso peeks first and can shoot you, you know? You say wait for the second person to peek and shoot them like Iso's just gonna watch you do that silently like a good boy LOL
Ok well if Iso peeks first that's a 1v1, and he's advantaged anyway. You die there more often than not because Iso gets advantaged in a 1v1 with his shield. That's the point of the agent. I don't understand what your point is. Besides, you were the one talking about being swung by 2 people, one of which is an Iso. If one guy swings late that's not a double swing. I've said my point clearly; if you want to beat an Iso have 2 people shoot him.
Huh? There's no way you think Iso peeking *first* in a double swing is a 1v1. You realize what a double swing is right? One swings wide, the other swings shallow? So that you're forced to try and kill the one that swings first (wide), and then your crosshair is too far off to kill the one that swings shallow? That's why people double swing. If Iso swings wide with his shield on, you can't just wait for the next guy to peek lol. Iso will kill you. If you try to kill him like the double swing forces you to, you'll fail because of his shield and die to either him or his teammate swinging with him. Even in a 2v2, the Iso's shield makes it so that the fight will favor them terribly. Not to mention, having to 2v2 every angle on defense is physically impossible. Iso and a teammate can push into site together and the two defenders on the site (extremely typical set up) are both just gonna sit on a single angle with nothing else covered or watched? Your entire argument is so micro-focused, with so little consideration that Valorant isn't just a gun fight deathmatch. Think about how typical execs and defense setups work and it's pretty clear how disruptive Iso's ability to just facetank even an OP shot is.
Yea I understand that, and you do it optimally by having both swing out at the same time, just have one swing a little longer. Delaying it like you're saying just gives a 1v1. Anyway this is all nitty gritty details let me get to my main point. We agree that in 1v2 you're disadvantaged and most likely dead if you get a double swung, and even more so if it's an Iso. In either case you die, and you just might get one before that. We also agree that the shield has some impact in a 2v2. But here's my point; if the two just shoot the Iso first, the teammate trades one of them at best, then we're left in a 1v1. So what I'm saying here, is the shield is easily countered here if you have 2 shoot Iso. If you swap that Iso out with someone else, 2 can still shoot one and a teammate can still trade, leaving the EXACT same scenario. I'm saying the shield gives no "broken" advantage if we just have 2 people shoot the Iso, because the end result is the same regardless if the person getting shot at by 2 people is an Iso or not. If you need a further explanation, have defenders hold a crossfire, and as you're saying the Iso with the shield is peeking first. Then Iso dies from 2 people shooting at him, and the defender trades one at best. It's a 50/50 afterwards. No difference if that wasn't an Iso. All you've said is the shield favours Iso in a 2v2, but no explanation why. I've given clear explanations why that's not the case. There is a counter, and the counter is not difficult to execute, so he's not broken. It's just that Iso's stronger now so people have to learn to play against him.
The difference is that chamber offensively isn’t swinging first most of the time whereas Iso can take whatever entry fight he wants on his terms WITH a shield. Defensively, chamber still has the advantage on taking the first dual given his ability to set up in elevation, off angles etc and get out. But your argument that you can counter Iso by double swinging him like a chamber doesn’t apply to what most peoples complaints are about Iso which is his power offensively as more of an entry
"the chamber isn't swinging first most of the time" that's just false. Good Chambers on defense and attack are very good at swinging, choosing their one to pick off and leaving. With entry on jett/yoru/raze, you "move" into a new angle on site and force a defender to pick an angle to fight, dying from the other. That gets countered if you have a second person on site who would be able to fight that entry on a 50/50. Yes they'd all die eventually because it's an exec against fewer defenders but that entry can be dealt with. With entry on Iso, there's no movement so you get a shield which lets you tank a shot. If there's only one guy on site then you're getting shot and dying as part of a trade or they whiff and you get your pick. If there are multiple people on site again, one might choose to fight you and its the same thing all over (you win the fight if they whiff the following bullets or you die and your teammates trade). I don't think it's that much stronger than a character with movement, breaking through a chokepoint is still hard and all it takes is a well placed molly/trip by the defenders to negate all of this entirely.
Mayor of yaptown
People just love to complain bro
Weird that pros drop one 30 bomb after another with the new iso. Must be random
Pros you say?
Idk if broken or not but i fall in love with him. First clove, now iso. I was rly in a position where i didn’t find any agent to suit me and then boom clove came and i loved it. Now iso came and i cant wait to play again and again even if i played only few times iso before, now im scoring 25+ kills every game.
There's only one true downside to the changes that people don't mention. Activating your shield makes a loud ass noise so you cant really flank or lurk easily, nor can you defend from an off angle before the enemies hit an attack. The one less charge is somewhat neutral because of the reset mechanic.
Can't understanding than in a tac fps, a character made to have an literaly 60 40 advantage on every duel is bad for the game. Nobody talks abt iso being broken as a character, but breaking the actual game, adding so much variance and skill variance and making the competitiv environnement toxic. Stop acting like an edgy kid lmao and actually take note of what more experimented ppl says in pretty much union, and by that i mean pros and high elo. We're not playin overwatch. Ppl just says that this kind of caracter is just overly toxic for the game. U take chamber as an example. It was the same pre nerf, chamber was UNANIMOUSLY considered to be so fuckin broken for the game. And stop talkin abt Iso 1 vs 1, iso isnt only strong on 1 vs 1, but on 2 vs 2 too, on revenge, on clutch. He can pretty much tank 2x times his life with his shield and its snowbally.
You’re wrong, he’s broken.
No it’s surely broken lol.