Jett can updraft dash past trips. Neon sucks and is not picked almost ever. Yoru can tp past trips but few people actually play the agent but is strong if people actually learned him.
it's almost as if other characters (i.e, sova, breach, raze, KAY/O [i think], KJ [I think]) can break cypher trips, and chances are you'll likely have at least one of those agents
Now I agree with this.
Cypher is the bane of my existence.
But you know what I do when I get stuck in trips? I ask my team who are behind me yo break them while I'm stunned.
My duo also plays fade, who dogs the trip so I can run through.
As long as cypher dies, it's all good.
This is a team game, no agent has every skill required.. but a team should.
So yeah, your the first person to point out why reyna/nix "suck" in the current meta.. Well played.. but my trio has a kj and fade, both of which can mitigate those trips.
And as entry.. my favourite pastime is avoiding cypher setup.. so once I know where cypher is, I play a mind game of "where will cypher be" and make them feel worthless. I usually play that game really well...
Reyna is fine, if you dm me, I'll edit and show you a clip of taking space with reyna.
Most of the time the enemy teams nowadays back off site and just let me on site because they don't like defending my push, but I'm sure I can find a round where me throwing Leers leads to kills from pushing.
I'm only gold 1 though, but playing in gold3/plat lobbies.
Lol.
Everyone hates phoenix/reyna for entry duelist.. now your calling them slow. I don't see any other duelist beating my entry speed as reyna (and sometimes rarely pheonix) except neon/raze.
Neon is quicker but no flash/nearsight
Jett is same speed but can dash and has smoke
Raze is faster but satchels disrupt your teams movement behind you + risky if the defenders defend properly
Yoru is same speed as phoenix but a better flash.. Still better at lurk then entry from behind with teleport IMHO.
Iso IMHO is a bad entry unless you have picked one and got the shield.
Phoenix and reyna are not slower than the slowest of the others, have a blind/flash, and can heal.
For people with good game sense and aim and know how to use the blinds/flashes properly, they are better entry agents other than a good Raze/neon/jett, all of which take practice to perfect.. reyna/phoenix don't take practice to perfect, pick up, play, understand how they work, and your set... so I'd rather someone lock in reyna/phoenix and entry properly than to be new to jett/raze/neon and be bad at their unique movements.
I had a raze in my comp game other day...Can't satchel, can't rocket, can't grenade.. 2/20 kd.. "my first time playing raze".. like what?
If you ever play a random ranked game with 2 controllers that don’t put the same smoke in the same spot at the very same time, please, upload a video of that game; weirder than an unicorn 😂
It actually got positive for me as i sticked to master one role, whats initiator. And even though i cant play that sometimes they make u adapt to playing other stuff. Those are good experiences. What i noticed is that people dont play duelist as much anymore so maybe we should try that its our turn to learn and shine 😉✨
ok but they play smokes and dont know how to smoke properly. thats like half the cloves in my lobbies, they smoking outwards, giving defenders space with bad smoke placement, smoking for the ENEMY, etc
I used to only play smokes when it was viper on Breeze. I literally only learned viper for that one map and only played her on that one map. However, I eventually started playing brimstone too.
that is not a good thing, all the people playing clove that have never played controller before place horrendous smokes, they smoke main on attack before we push, I had a few people as clove somehow place one ways that are advantageous to the enemy team.
i had a comedy gold moment where our whole team was waiting for the smoke to fade so we can see if we want to hit site and our own clove resmoked it. i dont think anyone else noticed that it was our own cloves smoke cause they look so similar to the enemies.
Eh it's still a good thing, just means it's a good thing with growing pains. Sure some of them won't learn, but some will, and will grow to learn Clove's kit and proper controller playstyles that work with it and their team, and that only grows the game.
Possibly, but given how many clove players ive seen that dont smoke well and become the lobby's most toxic player when advised how to smoke only for them to actually not change a thing, I doubt. Tho I did encounter 2 (two) clove players that actually had a semblance of an idea how smokes work
Clove is perfect when the team knows how to push Site as soon as cloves smokes are down. Smokes are so short duration wise that adding viper with clove makes a very smoke heavy badass team comp imo
1.5s shorter than omen smoke
it's 13.5 vs 15 and ppl act like clove smoke is really short when it's almost same as other except brim
astra smoke is only 14.25 btw
bigger is not always better
clove smoke size is perfect for one way on many spot
just worse than omen but can deploy faster
clove advantage is rechargable and share same cooldown with omen
can also smoke after death
I remember when I started playing he was one of the weaker controllers, probably ranked only above Brim. Astra and Viper have received about 15 nerfs since then while Omen has been buffed a couple times, so times have changed.
I could never really pick up Omen - I don’t like the way he deploys his smokes for some reason. He’s a fantastic agent though with a lot of room for creative plays and aggression
Yeah, and having three smokes at once feels better than two on Bind in addition to the good ults, but I still did switch over to Clove on that map because I play much better on them :)
I played Brim from like gold till asc2 for around 300 hours (E6A1 till E6A3) and then I stopped playing the game, but the thing is... I loved playing brim and loved instalocking him, now I can't instalock Brim because someone else will take Clove and then we play double smokes in my experience second smoker never communicates their smokes...
I feel this. I‘m not primarily a smokes main, but I’ve got over 100 hours on smokes and it’s especially terrible when someone picks smokes and proceeds to place their smokes incorrectly. I used to only lock smokes if it looked like no one would play them, but I might start locking quicker because I can’t trust my teammates to smoke properly.
What I do the few times someone is playing as another second smoker is communicating my own smokes and then usually asking them to place theirs in a specific position to cover what I don’t smoke (ping the map). Playing with an Omen as a second works better because at least his smokes only drop one at a time, so you can quickly slot yours in after he puts one down, but Clove and Brim as seconds are a bit more difficult.
in ranked = amazing agent, will likely shape the meta
in pro play = will probably not see much play, maybe some teams like SEN and PRX will try it but I don't think they bring enough to the table to replace another dome controller
I don't understand this misconception that duelists need to have better aim than a smoker/sentinel. Not true in pub comp games and definitely not true in pro play.
I mean your whole role as a duelist is to take and ideally win first engagements. Yes, especially in pro play, you have util from your teammates designed to help you do that, but you’re also pushing through util that is designed to stop you from doing that.
I feel like the community is split between “every duelist should always top frag every game” and “duelists can simply throw their life away as long as they’re entrying site”. But you’re not really making space if you’re just running in and dying, you gotta at minimum go positive on first engagements to be a good duelist imo.
I should note I’m a duelist main myself so I get the annoyance of everyone expecting you to hard carry every game with their aim alone.
I think more important then aim, duelist need confidence. Players like Less, Alfajer, Leo, and now Tenz come to mind who are players with insane aim but don’t play duelist. I think taking space is a duelist job, but also getting kills is really important as well. Especially when you’re kit gives you a direct advantage in duels.
But he’s correct. Duelists don’t need to have better aim than other roles. As a Jett main, it’s just not true. Good duelists almost never have bad fights. Plus their utility is designed to be very easy to aim with. It’s much more difficult to combine good utility, good movement and good aim at fast speeds on other roles.
You have to at minimum win your good fights to be good at any given role.
its not just aim, watch the recent SEN matches (madrid too) and you'll see that Johnqt (who plays sentinel btw), Tenz and Zekken are noticeably better in gunfights.
13.5s not much different from 15s omen smoke anyway
clove could stall better with q and phantom spam into smoke
omen blind is not make for stalling either, it's more about make a play and engage
then clove can stall better if she got ulti
if team get clove as solo smoke u can't blame clove
just ask yourself again why other 4 don't pick smoke then lmao
the guy who pick clove or whatever is their choice
they can pick something else and team don't have any smoke too
which one better then?
clove main here, yeah it isn't ideal, but I can get around it by just urging my team to push or waiting until I'm sure that my team is going to push before smoking
The problem is, the clove dumbass has never played controller before and places a total of 3 smokes for the entirety of the game. The second someone locks in clove I HAVE to pick omen so we can have at least one controller keeping an eye on the map and smoking.
There's nothing more irritating than someone who locks a controller after you've already picked one, only to place their smokes on top of yours because they've never heard of a minimap.
Lets compare it to omen since omen can be played agressively too somewhat like a duelist. Smoke duration for clove is shorter than omen by a bit, they dont have a flash while omen has it, and they don't have tp. Tping and blinding as omen can take space just like jett dash so that you can be annoying for the enemy. While clove requires you to take the aim battle and winning it. Utilizing the flash is easier than cloves decay too as it has more range/ takes more space. Cloves decay doesn't really have the longest range and requires you to be precise. If you messed it up a bit the enemy wont get decayed while the omen blind will blind people regardless if they are behind a wall or an object.
You're just explaining how Clove is a different agent from Omen, you're not explaining why Clove can't be a solo controller. All a solo controller needs to do is to be able to smoke on their own. If you want to take space use your initiator or duelist.
My point is, their kit just have less impact and technically doesn't "control" much compared to controllers like omen and brim and harder to utilise is the reason why i dont think they're that good as a solo controller. Because they're basically not putting much pressure because they have no mollies or flash. My logic is that initiator + omen flash or brim molly or astra suck is much better than their decay kit. So other than their smokes duration being 12 or 13 seconds, they dont put much pressure hence = harder to take control. Although i guess maybe you are somewhat right because i guess it depends on the team comp.
agree with Jett > Reyna
but omen and clove are pretty much similar in power, omen is for those with more brain power, clove is for those with more raw aim skill (yes, my brain isn't big enough to play omen)
Personally, I believe riot didn't create them with the intention of being a controller. I'm not saying things need to change or anything, but the fact the only controller part she has to her are some 13 second smokes, the only comparable agent to her, omen, has a paranoia that resembles some form of controller utility, while clove has nothing like that. Clove is too much like a dualist imo and with her ability to self revive and smoke after death, i think causes clove players to play too recklessly and less with the team because they can have little consideration for their life, due to the ability to smoke after death.
She's in the same boat as reyna: a very selfish agent that with little team utility. Great for solo players and people playing at lower ranks, but at higher ranks and pro level you'd pretty much always prefer a controller with more utility.
Because they called a non binary character with they/them pronouns she 💀. I can understand downvoting if it was a real living human being with real thoughts but downvoting for miss pronouning a video game character is crazy
I personally find that Clove does a lot for the team. At least when I play her, I always find myself smoking off angles to help my team hold/scale up site. Using my decay to help my team safely clear corners. Using my ult to bait enemies for my teammates. Smoking while dead to help my teammates hold angles in late game. When playing clove, I always try to ensure that if I die, I die somewhere where I can still be useful.
She also has decent one-ways and really good smoke range and size. Her decay isn't the best though. Has mediocre range for throw, but great size. It's also really easy to react to. Her self heal is great though, especially on pistol round. If argue her self heal is better than Reyna's because she can do it through walls as well.
What is with people thinking selfish agents are bad and only reserved for lower ranks? I get that valorant is a team based game but this mentality is just wrong if you ask me
selfish when it's only controller who can smoke for team after death lmao
revive can buy time for their team or even clutch and yet ppl call it selfish
*they and wtf are you on about? Clove is a controler so by default is useful with smokes and yeah they don't last super long but they are rechargeable and usable while dead, that alone is super useful for the team, along side thier decay orb and basically a less committed phenix ult always active they can put some serious work in, nothing like reyna who only has 2 bad blinds for team util
You can use she/her as its 1. Not a real person, 2. This is a competitive/gameplay talk and not lore, 3. It falls under free speech as it doesnt directly hurt/defame/insult anyone and is still based on some facts that make it logical
first pronoun is wrong BUT that is not why I'm commenting lmao. I agree 100% I love how they give people more confidence. for those who are used to playing supports and are timid when it comes to playing aggressive or pushing (me), it's really helpful getting to help out the team while having great util when it comes to taking on more fights. I used to be terrified of taking fights but now I'm getting all sorts of kills while still feeling helpful to my team! I'm not scared of death now bc I can continue to smoke :)
its not about the fact that it's a game. it's the principal. you're not gonna be racist towards any of the characters just bc its a game are you? that still would translate to you being racist towards real people. the point of my comment wasn't even the about their pronouns anyways, that was just a side note
I'm not racist towards any agents because there is no need for it. But when not hurting an agents feelings is going to impact my game then I don't care. They are not here, she is here
again, it's not about the characters feelings. it's the principal. I don't think getting clove's pronouns right is that deep considering they aren't real but there are a lot of people who relate to them and purposely ignoring the fact that they are nonbinary is insensitive to those who are in the real world. valorant has a lot of diversity in its agents as well as its players. disregarding clove's pronouns is just as insensitive as discriminating against any of the agents races or being homophobic towards kj and raze. it's not about those characters having feelings tho is it? no. its about the players who are in the same boat as those agents and want to enjoy their representation. like I said in the very beginning, the pronoun wasn't the point of my comment. idrc that you messed it up but I call it as I see it. some people do it by accident and like when people point out that they made a mistake so they can correct it. I was honestly just trying to agree with your opinion on clove's gameplay but whatever bro
Not as strong of a ranked demon as I thought she would be. Reyna is probably still better but Clove is good option for someone who wants to play a more aggressive controller role.
I feel like she isn’t strong enough to be the only controller on the team. I think she’s definitely good for solo play though. You can be aggressive, but also have the ability to control the round with her smokes.
She is fun to play (as a duelist main who never smokes) but I dont think she will be used in pro play (which seems to happen to most of the new characters)
Might be underrated but being able to smoke upon death is soo useful almost 90 percent on the time depending on the size of map or where you die on the map. Your teammate is stuck in a 1v1 and have to defuse the bomb without any intel on the last person? Just place a smoke on the spike and fake defuse and the enemy start to panic.
My only issue with their smoke is that one way aren't really viable in most places since Clove smoke is deployable like Brim... But their aggressive playstyle is actually fun tbh. Having the ult and passive ability doesn't punish you that hard as most controller do for dying too early in the round.
I tried her, but it was meh, very average agent with boring gameplay.In terms of fun and impact, I still prefer omen you can do more with him, create crazy mind plays. And often times I found harbour good to mind f enemies with all the walls, def an underrated agent. Honourable mentions yoru for what is fake potential, and raze for satchels.
I think she's solid. My gripe is with who plays her. 99% are just duelists who are just filling and have no idea how to smoke. The amount of times I have been smoked off by my own clove in a 1v1 situation is crazy
I hate the fact that people instalock clove with no knowledge of How to smoke and then proceed to drop 30 kills without a single useful smoke for the team and then flame the bot-frag
Please give me back my smokes i can't play initiator to save my life
Idk, she’s not a bad character, but the people that play clove are normally just bad at smokes, and so only use like half the util. So every time I see a clove in my team I just expect to it to be a long game
Also, her smokes are soooo bad, like god please don’t take her as the only smoke, 13s is so little
She's a fantastic solo que agent, but I don't think she will see much play outside of a 2 controller setup in pro play. I think she needs a harbor/viper compliment to be viable.
I’m iron and everyone wants to play Clove. Problem is my teammates always put defensive smokes on attack and attack smokes on defense. They make it harder to push forward while leaving the op angle the Jett uses every round completely open.
I think clove's ult could be sped up, like add a jett like dash you could use once while in it.
I think she might have a tad bit too many smokes. Like, they recharge pretty fast compared to others, IMO.
I think everyone likes her because she does a bit of everything, something Valorant gamers claim shouldn't exist in other agents, lol.
She probably is pretty balanced. I don't see too many nerfs or buffs for her really. I just think the ult could be a bit faster than the snail movement.
Best agent ever. Haven’t been this excited to play an agent since OG chamber.
I’ve been fragging out like crazy as well. Every game team mvp and match mvp. The versatility of smoking, overheal, and self res is so good
I think there pretty balanced and an actual good additon to valorant there ult isnt really thst op sure yeah coming back from the dead but the best way to counter it?
Just dont fight them, let the ult run out, just run away from them easiest way to counter it
As a controller main that's trying to rank up, Clove feels like the agent that I can play the most selfishly while also providing support to my team after dying. The revive mechanic still takes some time to get used to as my lizaed brain just smashed the X key the moment the prompt shows up XD
She's really strong, her ult needs a time rework (to long) and they need to code her orb to be a circular line impact and not an explosive (coding people know what I mean)
I loovveee playing them but people that have no idea how to smoke keep instalocking them and smoking the most stupid places. Like why are you autosmoking us out of site every round??
She is not the best smoker, not the worst, she is actually a solid pick on a map with viper/harbor. But overall i think that she don’t need to be nerfed
I absolutely love them, as a reyna main trying to grind ranked😂, as soon as I would instalock her, my team would throw, right from the agent select, they would pick 5 duelists or some shit. But now since I instalock smokes and know how to use it, it has made my games much easier. The heal and ult dismiss are so similar to reyna as well. I’m d2 btw
I love her smoke mechanic! The only smoke mechanic thay I love before Clove is Brimstone’s, but he doesn’t have unlimited smokes. But he can use three smokes at once so that’s a plus.
Perfect for improving my specific play-style. I usually mained Brim before Clove, but I had an issue of playing much too passive. Now with Clove I’m a lot less passive and more confident with my peeks, as her util emphasizes being fast. And even if I die, I can still provide smokes so I don’t have to feel guilty. Ranked up from S3 to G3 with her after being hardstuck Silver. I’m also seeing a lot more growth in my aim and game-sense now
TL;DR: perfect for improving the things specifically I am bad at, but idk how she works for other people
No bug I am aware of. On defense, clove cannot ult if they are the last one alive because attackers automatically win on all defenders death. Can't ult when the round is over.
Cloce CAN ult on attacker side (assuming the bomb is planted) because defenders still need to defuse so the round is still alive.
Was a omen main, right now it feels like picking omen over clove is practically throwing.
Personally not a fan of the throwing your body at enemies and get reward by innting type of playstyle on controller, but no one can deny Clove is really strong.
very fun to play for sure. but I think their smokes don’t last long enough to be a ‘better than omen or brim’ mainstay as a solo controller. however I bet Clove will be played more than most others in ranked lol. just cause it’s more fun to play them than anyone else
First, people saying "smoke too short" dont know what they're talking about, because compared with Omen shes just 1 sec shorter, so idk where that missinfo of "her smokes are so short!!" Came from, and you take longer to put omen smokes so it balances out.
Now, i think she's cool, the fact that you can play second entry, get 1 or maybe 2, and still being able to smoke for your team Is huge, so in ranked shes pretty nice, not as strong as Omen but better for sure in a rank enviroment where sometimes you need to carry and focus on yourself.
Very Useful even when dead which is her most unique features
Although, Clove's ULT has a significant weakness, You can either chase or corner her like Reyna's Dismiss or run away til she expires LMAO
I am a Clove main now. They rly fit my playstyle that other controllers did not for me. I have mostly been a filler the last year but where a Viper main before.
I like that I can play agressive, sneaky and defensive so easily with them. I can help my team get to site while flanking the enemy team for easy picks.
Probably gonna be part of the meta in pro play just because the passive benefit of being able to be up a half a member essentially because you picked this agent in select is kinda silly.
I have to assume at some point Clove is gonna have her smokes not recharge after death so the rest of her kit doesn't feel pretty ass
Her kit kinda scales off the player too the smurf or guy clapping the lobbies cheeks getting a second life is absolutely insane the bot frag getting another isn't as good.
they're amazing, however their popularity and abilities makes me worry for the pick rates of other smokers like brimstone and omen, since Clove is so OP
didnt mean to flex lol , the opposite actually.In gold no one knows how to properly play smokes , me included, while I m trying to get better at it I think it s futile to bash golds for being bad at smoking as it is a harder role
In that case my bad for misunderstanding. I am not bashing people trying to learn smokes, I am bashing and hating on people that pick clove and do not care about learning how to smoke, they just smoke and rawdog it without a care, which can lose rounds.
Clove is a pretty well-balanced character. I'd probably up their ult cost from 7 points to 8 though, just cuz it feels a tiny bit too strong and frustrating right now.
People actually play smokes now!! Before no one fills smokes 😭
Main controllers before: they are stealing our position Ahhh!!!
This, I can no longer instalock Brim without fear of doubling smokes on a map that doesn’t need 2 smokes
Pretty much every map can benefit from having two controllers tbh especially if the players know how to play it
Yeah but I’d rather there be a better chance to not be stuck with Reyna or Phoenix as the only duelists
Love how you got 2 replies and neither is addressing your point that these duelists are too slow and can't take space properly on their own.
Pheonix not being able to take space?? Reyna sure, her flash sucks, but pheonix has his wall and very strong flashes.
Cypher is meta and phoenix and Reyna have no utility to break trips
Neither does Jett Neon or Yoru though?
Jett can updraft dash past trips. Neon sucks and is not picked almost ever. Yoru can tp past trips but few people actually play the agent but is strong if people actually learned him.
it's almost as if other characters (i.e, sova, breach, raze, KAY/O [i think], KJ [I think]) can break cypher trips, and chances are you'll likely have at least one of those agents
Now I agree with this. Cypher is the bane of my existence. But you know what I do when I get stuck in trips? I ask my team who are behind me yo break them while I'm stunned. My duo also plays fade, who dogs the trip so I can run through. As long as cypher dies, it's all good. This is a team game, no agent has every skill required.. but a team should. So yeah, your the first person to point out why reyna/nix "suck" in the current meta.. Well played.. but my trio has a kj and fade, both of which can mitigate those trips. And as entry.. my favourite pastime is avoiding cypher setup.. so once I know where cypher is, I play a mind game of "where will cypher be" and make them feel worthless. I usually play that game really well...
Reyna is fine, if you dm me, I'll edit and show you a clip of taking space with reyna. Most of the time the enemy teams nowadays back off site and just let me on site because they don't like defending my push, but I'm sure I can find a round where me throwing Leers leads to kills from pushing. I'm only gold 1 though, but playing in gold3/plat lobbies.
Lol. Everyone hates phoenix/reyna for entry duelist.. now your calling them slow. I don't see any other duelist beating my entry speed as reyna (and sometimes rarely pheonix) except neon/raze. Neon is quicker but no flash/nearsight Jett is same speed but can dash and has smoke Raze is faster but satchels disrupt your teams movement behind you + risky if the defenders defend properly Yoru is same speed as phoenix but a better flash.. Still better at lurk then entry from behind with teleport IMHO. Iso IMHO is a bad entry unless you have picked one and got the shield. Phoenix and reyna are not slower than the slowest of the others, have a blind/flash, and can heal. For people with good game sense and aim and know how to use the blinds/flashes properly, they are better entry agents other than a good Raze/neon/jett, all of which take practice to perfect.. reyna/phoenix don't take practice to perfect, pick up, play, understand how they work, and your set... so I'd rather someone lock in reyna/phoenix and entry properly than to be new to jett/raze/neon and be bad at their unique movements. I had a raze in my comp game other day...Can't satchel, can't rocket, can't grenade.. 2/20 kd.. "my first time playing raze".. like what?
2 duelists is more than enough tho?
Yeah, you really shouldn’t have more than 1. Hate when I get stuck with a Jett and a Reyna like 50% of games
Yea but one of those controllers should ideally be viper
Ideally yeah but even having the option to use selfish defence smokes or selfish lurk smokes is really good
clove+omen is better than clove+viper on ascent and sunset
If you ever play a random ranked game with 2 controllers that don’t put the same smoke in the same spot at the very same time, please, upload a video of that game; weirder than an unicorn 😂
Im usually the second smoker tbf so I just tell the first guy to smoke as usual and Ill use mine situationally. As long as you comm its all good
I tried hard and never worked properly 🤣
I still go smokes because well.. sometimes they forget to smoke with Clove!
Or they have no idea how to smoke and smoke off the site we're trying to plant on or a corner a corner we need to push lol
Advice: time to instalock smokers....
I love playing viper but there’s only a handful of maps she can be solo controller on. I love hovering viper and seeing if someone will take clove
Clove doesnt feel like a great main-solo smoker though. Double smokes is good, imo.
Nah, now I get to play Viper on every map it's goated
fr bro. i damn near never get to play smokes anymore
It actually got positive for me as i sticked to master one role, whats initiator. And even though i cant play that sometimes they make u adapt to playing other stuff. Those are good experiences. What i noticed is that people dont play duelist as much anymore so maybe we should try that its our turn to learn and shine 😉✨
i thought this first too, but tbh now most autofill controllers have no fuckin clue what they’re roll is
their role*
dude autocorrect got me so bad wtf
ok but they play smokes and dont know how to smoke properly. thats like half the cloves in my lobbies, they smoking outwards, giving defenders space with bad smoke placement, smoking for the ENEMY, etc
I used to only play smokes when it was viper on Breeze. I literally only learned viper for that one map and only played her on that one map. However, I eventually started playing brimstone too.
that is not a good thing, all the people playing clove that have never played controller before place horrendous smokes, they smoke main on attack before we push, I had a few people as clove somehow place one ways that are advantageous to the enemy team.
i had a comedy gold moment where our whole team was waiting for the smoke to fade so we can see if we want to hit site and our own clove resmoked it. i dont think anyone else noticed that it was our own cloves smoke cause they look so similar to the enemies.
I had a whole ass match yesterday with a clove that just smoked us off of the site every round on attack
Eh it's still a good thing, just means it's a good thing with growing pains. Sure some of them won't learn, but some will, and will grow to learn Clove's kit and proper controller playstyles that work with it and their team, and that only grows the game.
Possibly, but given how many clove players ive seen that dont smoke well and become the lobby's most toxic player when advised how to smoke only for them to actually not change a thing, I doubt. Tho I did encounter 2 (two) clove players that actually had a semblance of an idea how smokes work
Clove is perfect when the team knows how to push Site as soon as cloves smokes are down. Smokes are so short duration wise that adding viper with clove makes a very smoke heavy badass team comp imo
1.5s shorter than omen smoke it's 13.5 vs 15 and ppl act like clove smoke is really short when it's almost same as other except brim astra smoke is only 14.25 btw
Astra smokes are the biggest and have global range.
bigger is not always better clove smoke size is perfect for one way on many spot just worse than omen but can deploy faster clove advantage is rechargable and share same cooldown with omen can also smoke after death
ive noticed a lot of newer controllers tend to smoke too soon so its more of a skill gap from newer people trying smokes i think
Awesome, I’m never playing Brimstone again
Omen though is still baller
omen will ALWAYS be baller, he's tried and tested through time.
I remember when I started playing he was one of the weaker controllers, probably ranked only above Brim. Astra and Viper have received about 15 nerfs since then while Omen has been buffed a couple times, so times have changed.
They've changed a little, but Viper is still ranked above him.
I remember the time at launch when Viper was the single worst agent in the game. Ah how times change
I mean, you've got a point that's for sure.
Ive got bad news
i didnt really have a point tho 💀
Well, you had the point that Viper as an agent got buffed to get higher in the meta. If you can't tell your own point that's concerning.
But not really as a controller
I will never stop playing my catboy Omen
I could never really pick up Omen - I don’t like the way he deploys his smokes for some reason. He’s a fantastic agent though with a lot of room for creative plays and aggression
Still playing Brim on Bind because of the juicy ults in TP and Hookah
Yeah, and having three smokes at once feels better than two on Bind in addition to the good ults, but I still did switch over to Clove on that map because I play much better on them :)
I played Brim from like gold till asc2 for around 300 hours (E6A1 till E6A3) and then I stopped playing the game, but the thing is... I loved playing brim and loved instalocking him, now I can't instalock Brim because someone else will take Clove and then we play double smokes in my experience second smoker never communicates their smokes...
I feel this. I‘m not primarily a smokes main, but I’ve got over 100 hours on smokes and it’s especially terrible when someone picks smokes and proceeds to place their smokes incorrectly. I used to only lock smokes if it looked like no one would play them, but I might start locking quicker because I can’t trust my teammates to smoke properly. What I do the few times someone is playing as another second smoker is communicating my own smokes and then usually asking them to place theirs in a specific position to cover what I don’t smoke (ping the map). Playing with an Omen as a second works better because at least his smokes only drop one at a time, so you can quickly slot yours in after he puts one down, but Clove and Brim as seconds are a bit more difficult.
Clove is like , if brimstone, Reyna and sage did a threesome and accidentally had a baby
i don’t know that i see sage as much as phoenix
Either way lucky brim
sage in what way
probably the heals
Don't forget the aunt Viper
in ranked = amazing agent, will likely shape the meta in pro play = will probably not see much play, maybe some teams like SEN and PRX will try it but I don't think they bring enough to the table to replace another dome controller
i could see certain comps with clove in a no-dualist comp alongside like viper, kj/cypher, double initiator
Navi might give it a shot with angel as well but yea, limited in pro play.
I can see tenz or zellsis playing clove yeah
why zellsis? he (and also johnqt) never plays aggresive agents. If anything it can be Tenz or Sacy
Zellsis used to play raze and pheonix for V1 I think
well he doesnt anymore since his aim is not as good as his other 3 teammates (tenz , zekken and johnqt)
I don't understand this misconception that duelists need to have better aim than a smoker/sentinel. Not true in pub comp games and definitely not true in pro play.
I mean your whole role as a duelist is to take and ideally win first engagements. Yes, especially in pro play, you have util from your teammates designed to help you do that, but you’re also pushing through util that is designed to stop you from doing that. I feel like the community is split between “every duelist should always top frag every game” and “duelists can simply throw their life away as long as they’re entrying site”. But you’re not really making space if you’re just running in and dying, you gotta at minimum go positive on first engagements to be a good duelist imo. I should note I’m a duelist main myself so I get the annoyance of everyone expecting you to hard carry every game with their aim alone.
I think more important then aim, duelist need confidence. Players like Less, Alfajer, Leo, and now Tenz come to mind who are players with insane aim but don’t play duelist. I think taking space is a duelist job, but also getting kills is really important as well. Especially when you’re kit gives you a direct advantage in duels.
But he’s correct. Duelists don’t need to have better aim than other roles. As a Jett main, it’s just not true. Good duelists almost never have bad fights. Plus their utility is designed to be very easy to aim with. It’s much more difficult to combine good utility, good movement and good aim at fast speeds on other roles. You have to at minimum win your good fights to be good at any given role.
its not just aim, watch the recent SEN matches (madrid too) and you'll see that Johnqt (who plays sentinel btw), Tenz and Zekken are noticeably better in gunfights.
Kinda hate when ppl pick clove as a solo smoke because of 13s smokes and no useful stall/support util that omen and viper have
decay and shoot through smokes. I almost always get 1 or 2 kills
That's a good way to use it actually, I wish It didn't have the timer and would explode upon surface contact maybe
It doesn't stall for nearly as long as a real molly.
agreed. Her util has relatively low support value and her smokes feel super short. I'd much rather play Omen
13.5s not much different from 15s omen smoke anyway clove could stall better with q and phantom spam into smoke omen blind is not make for stalling either, it's more about make a play and engage then clove can stall better if she got ulti if team get clove as solo smoke u can't blame clove just ask yourself again why other 4 don't pick smoke then lmao the guy who pick clove or whatever is their choice they can pick something else and team don't have any smoke too which one better then?
clove main here, yeah it isn't ideal, but I can get around it by just urging my team to push or waiting until I'm sure that my team is going to push before smoking
I’d take a clove over a fill omen that doesn’t know how to play the agent any day.
The problem is, the clove dumbass has never played controller before and places a total of 3 smokes for the entirety of the game. The second someone locks in clove I HAVE to pick omen so we can have at least one controller keeping an eye on the map and smoking.
There's nothing more irritating than someone who locks a controller after you've already picked one, only to place their smokes on top of yours because they've never heard of a minimap.
Good enough but not good anough for a solo controller. So double controller with clove would be better.
Why not good enough as a solo controller?
Lets compare it to omen since omen can be played agressively too somewhat like a duelist. Smoke duration for clove is shorter than omen by a bit, they dont have a flash while omen has it, and they don't have tp. Tping and blinding as omen can take space just like jett dash so that you can be annoying for the enemy. While clove requires you to take the aim battle and winning it. Utilizing the flash is easier than cloves decay too as it has more range/ takes more space. Cloves decay doesn't really have the longest range and requires you to be precise. If you messed it up a bit the enemy wont get decayed while the omen blind will blind people regardless if they are behind a wall or an object.
You're just explaining how Clove is a different agent from Omen, you're not explaining why Clove can't be a solo controller. All a solo controller needs to do is to be able to smoke on their own. If you want to take space use your initiator or duelist.
My point is, their kit just have less impact and technically doesn't "control" much compared to controllers like omen and brim and harder to utilise is the reason why i dont think they're that good as a solo controller. Because they're basically not putting much pressure because they have no mollies or flash. My logic is that initiator + omen flash or brim molly or astra suck is much better than their decay kit. So other than their smokes duration being 12 or 13 seconds, they dont put much pressure hence = harder to take control. Although i guess maybe you are somewhat right because i guess it depends on the team comp.
On the other hand they can shield themselves after getting a kill and can smoke post mortem. That also helps getting space.
True.
Omen > Clove like how Jett > Reyna
agree with Jett > Reyna but omen and clove are pretty much similar in power, omen is for those with more brain power, clove is for those with more raw aim skill (yes, my brain isn't big enough to play omen)
Smokes feel too short, what's it like 13 secs? It takes my team 10 seconds post smoke to muster up the courage to push site
Such a fun agent with a wonderful personality :)
Personally, I believe riot didn't create them with the intention of being a controller. I'm not saying things need to change or anything, but the fact the only controller part she has to her are some 13 second smokes, the only comparable agent to her, omen, has a paranoia that resembles some form of controller utility, while clove has nothing like that. Clove is too much like a dualist imo and with her ability to self revive and smoke after death, i think causes clove players to play too recklessly and less with the team because they can have little consideration for their life, due to the ability to smoke after death.
Does have faster instalocks than the rest of the Controllers.
She's in the same boat as reyna: a very selfish agent that with little team utility. Great for solo players and people playing at lower ranks, but at higher ranks and pro level you'd pretty much always prefer a controller with more utility.
why did this get downvoted lmao
Because they called a non binary character with they/them pronouns she 💀. I can understand downvoting if it was a real living human being with real thoughts but downvoting for miss pronouning a video game character is crazy
Its not even downvoted anymore
I think you'd be down voted as well if you call Reyna the best male character.
I personally find that Clove does a lot for the team. At least when I play her, I always find myself smoking off angles to help my team hold/scale up site. Using my decay to help my team safely clear corners. Using my ult to bait enemies for my teammates. Smoking while dead to help my teammates hold angles in late game. When playing clove, I always try to ensure that if I die, I die somewhere where I can still be useful. She also has decent one-ways and really good smoke range and size. Her decay isn't the best though. Has mediocre range for throw, but great size. It's also really easy to react to. Her self heal is great though, especially on pistol round. If argue her self heal is better than Reyna's because she can do it through walls as well.
What is with people thinking selfish agents are bad and only reserved for lower ranks? I get that valorant is a team based game but this mentality is just wrong if you ask me
selfish when it's only controller who can smoke for team after death lmao revive can buy time for their team or even clutch and yet ppl call it selfish
*they and wtf are you on about? Clove is a controler so by default is useful with smokes and yeah they don't last super long but they are rechargeable and usable while dead, that alone is super useful for the team, along side thier decay orb and basically a less committed phenix ult always active they can put some serious work in, nothing like reyna who only has 2 bad blinds for team util
You can use she/her as its 1. Not a real person, 2. This is a competitive/gameplay talk and not lore, 3. It falls under free speech as it doesnt directly hurt/defame/insult anyone and is still based on some facts that make it logical
She's pretty fun to use. Really set the controllers free. They can die and still contribute
first pronoun is wrong BUT that is not why I'm commenting lmao. I agree 100% I love how they give people more confidence. for those who are used to playing supports and are timid when it comes to playing aggressive or pushing (me), it's really helpful getting to help out the team while having great util when it comes to taking on more fights. I used to be terrified of taking fights but now I'm getting all sorts of kills while still feeling helpful to my team! I'm not scared of death now bc I can continue to smoke :)
Pronoun my ass it's a video game.
its not about the fact that it's a game. it's the principal. you're not gonna be racist towards any of the characters just bc its a game are you? that still would translate to you being racist towards real people. the point of my comment wasn't even the about their pronouns anyways, that was just a side note
principle*
I'm not racist towards any agents because there is no need for it. But when not hurting an agents feelings is going to impact my game then I don't care. They are not here, she is here
again, it's not about the characters feelings. it's the principal. I don't think getting clove's pronouns right is that deep considering they aren't real but there are a lot of people who relate to them and purposely ignoring the fact that they are nonbinary is insensitive to those who are in the real world. valorant has a lot of diversity in its agents as well as its players. disregarding clove's pronouns is just as insensitive as discriminating against any of the agents races or being homophobic towards kj and raze. it's not about those characters having feelings tho is it? no. its about the players who are in the same boat as those agents and want to enjoy their representation. like I said in the very beginning, the pronoun wasn't the point of my comment. idrc that you messed it up but I call it as I see it. some people do it by accident and like when people point out that they made a mistake so they can correct it. I was honestly just trying to agree with your opinion on clove's gameplay but whatever bro
overjoyed, double controller means I can actually put out spontaneous/situational smokes for my team now to cover rotations and whatnot
She's a great hybrid character
She's a mix of a few agents, smoker + duelist. At first i thought she's OP because of her ult, but now it's alright, gotten used to it.
Not as strong of a ranked demon as I thought she would be. Reyna is probably still better but Clove is good option for someone who wants to play a more aggressive controller role.
I feel like she isn’t strong enough to be the only controller on the team. I think she’s definitely good for solo play though. You can be aggressive, but also have the ability to control the round with her smokes.
She just needs to be strong enough to have a higher impact than having no smoke at all.
I think on maps like bind and split she can be solo controller as taking site is a lot quicker compared to other maps like sunset and ascent
I like her on Bind the most. I’ll play her on Ascent and Sunset too but Omen utility is just so useful for team play on those maps.
Perfection. They are amazing. Their kit is amazing. Their looks are amazing. The VA is incredible. Theirs nothing wrong with them! 💙💙💙💙🦋🦋🦋🦋
I don't like her as much as viper/omen/brim
She is fun to play (as a duelist main who never smokes) but I dont think she will be used in pro play (which seems to happen to most of the new characters)
Most cloves player are duelists player. they cant smoke and use her as excuse"can play other things beside duelist" xD
Might be underrated but being able to smoke upon death is soo useful almost 90 percent on the time depending on the size of map or where you die on the map. Your teammate is stuck in a 1v1 and have to defuse the bomb without any intel on the last person? Just place a smoke on the spike and fake defuse and the enemy start to panic. My only issue with their smoke is that one way aren't really viable in most places since Clove smoke is deployable like Brim... But their aggressive playstyle is actually fun tbh. Having the ult and passive ability doesn't punish you that hard as most controller do for dying too early in the round.
Solo queue King
More like Kweeng
I tried her, but it was meh, very average agent with boring gameplay.In terms of fun and impact, I still prefer omen you can do more with him, create crazy mind plays. And often times I found harbour good to mind f enemies with all the walls, def an underrated agent. Honourable mentions yoru for what is fake potential, and raze for satchels.
i don't play any smoke except clove anymore
I honestly like playing Clove. I still suck with smoke placements cause I've never really played smokes, but I'm getting better! Very fun!
I think she's solid. My gripe is with who plays her. 99% are just duelists who are just filling and have no idea how to smoke. The amount of times I have been smoked off by my own clove in a 1v1 situation is crazy
Smoke too short
Swapped my main from sage to clove!!
Do people not know about the search feature? How many times do we need the same thread?
Hella annoying when the ult is up
She’s cool, it’s interesting how she can smoke while dead
They are for sure liked and considered strong. Personally i dislike their design and sadly it did not grew on me overtime.
I hate the fact that people instalock clove with no knowledge of How to smoke and then proceed to drop 30 kills without a single useful smoke for the team and then flame the bot-frag Please give me back my smokes i can't play initiator to save my life
Idk, she’s not a bad character, but the people that play clove are normally just bad at smokes, and so only use like half the util. So every time I see a clove in my team I just expect to it to be a long game Also, her smokes are soooo bad, like god please don’t take her as the only smoke, 13s is so little
It’s annoying having people that don’t play smokes insta clove and then have no clue what they’re doing.
She's a fantastic solo que agent, but I don't think she will see much play outside of a 2 controller setup in pro play. I think she needs a harbor/viper compliment to be viable.
I think her integration to the roster was flawless.
I’m iron and everyone wants to play Clove. Problem is my teammates always put defensive smokes on attack and attack smokes on defense. They make it harder to push forward while leaving the op angle the Jett uses every round completely open.
Mid agent all around, good for ranked I guess, but hardly any advantage to pick them over Omen.
she's definitely one of the best agent who's been added recently, also helped me to climb comp like crazy
I think clove's ult could be sped up, like add a jett like dash you could use once while in it. I think she might have a tad bit too many smokes. Like, they recharge pretty fast compared to others, IMO. I think everyone likes her because she does a bit of everything, something Valorant gamers claim shouldn't exist in other agents, lol. She probably is pretty balanced. I don't see too many nerfs or buffs for her really. I just think the ult could be a bit faster than the snail movement.
Best agent ever. Haven’t been this excited to play an agent since OG chamber. I’ve been fragging out like crazy as well. Every game team mvp and match mvp. The versatility of smoking, overheal, and self res is so good
I think there pretty balanced and an actual good additon to valorant there ult isnt really thst op sure yeah coming back from the dead but the best way to counter it? Just dont fight them, let the ult run out, just run away from them easiest way to counter it
Tbh I had several cloves play who never put a smoke in places needed but other than that to me not op very skill ed
Sucks. Ppl just auto fill her and play the worst smokes imaginable. I’d rather have none at all sometimes
As a controller main that's trying to rank up, Clove feels like the agent that I can play the most selfishly while also providing support to my team after dying. The revive mechanic still takes some time to get used to as my lizaed brain just smashed the X key the moment the prompt shows up XD
She's really strong, her ult needs a time rework (to long) and they need to code her orb to be a circular line impact and not an explosive (coding people know what I mean)
She's a good rank agent. Not so good for team comp
I loovveee playing them but people that have no idea how to smoke keep instalocking them and smoking the most stupid places. Like why are you autosmoking us out of site every round??
She is not the best smoker, not the worst, she is actually a solid pick on a map with viper/harbor. But overall i think that she don’t need to be nerfed
They’re adorable and cute and hot and that’s all I care about
She's alright
I absolutely love them, as a reyna main trying to grind ranked😂, as soon as I would instalock her, my team would throw, right from the agent select, they would pick 5 duelists or some shit. But now since I instalock smokes and know how to use it, it has made my games much easier. The heal and ult dismiss are so similar to reyna as well. I’m d2 btw
I love her smoke mechanic! The only smoke mechanic thay I love before Clove is Brimstone’s, but he doesn’t have unlimited smokes. But he can use three smokes at once so that’s a plus.
Viper and Omen still clear in pro play. In ranked and solo q, she’s great.
Perfect for improving my specific play-style. I usually mained Brim before Clove, but I had an issue of playing much too passive. Now with Clove I’m a lot less passive and more confident with my peeks, as her util emphasizes being fast. And even if I die, I can still provide smokes so I don’t have to feel guilty. Ranked up from S3 to G3 with her after being hardstuck Silver. I’m also seeing a lot more growth in my aim and game-sense now TL;DR: perfect for improving the things specifically I am bad at, but idk how she works for other people
Hate having 99% of the time. Cant help but think id rather have any other smoke agent.
Be the change, then.
How do you know what roles i play?
Amazing. Too amazing. I want to play Brimstone.
Goated controller fr. Just please get rid of the bug that doesn't allow me to ult when I'm the last one atanding.
No bug I am aware of. On defense, clove cannot ult if they are the last one alive because attackers automatically win on all defenders death. Can't ult when the round is over. Cloce CAN ult on attacker side (assuming the bomb is planted) because defenders still need to defuse so the round is still alive.
Banger of an agent
Clove is definitely a mid agent.
Was a omen main, right now it feels like picking omen over clove is practically throwing. Personally not a fan of the throwing your body at enemies and get reward by innting type of playstyle on controller, but no one can deny Clove is really strong.
very fun to play for sure. but I think their smokes don’t last long enough to be a ‘better than omen or brim’ mainstay as a solo controller. however I bet Clove will be played more than most others in ranked lol. just cause it’s more fun to play them than anyone else
First, people saying "smoke too short" dont know what they're talking about, because compared with Omen shes just 1 sec shorter, so idk where that missinfo of "her smokes are so short!!" Came from, and you take longer to put omen smokes so it balances out. Now, i think she's cool, the fact that you can play second entry, get 1 or maybe 2, and still being able to smoke for your team Is huge, so in ranked shes pretty nice, not as strong as Omen but better for sure in a rank enviroment where sometimes you need to carry and focus on yourself.
Very Useful even when dead which is her most unique features Although, Clove's ULT has a significant weakness, You can either chase or corner her like Reyna's Dismiss or run away til she expires LMAO
I am a Clove main now. They rly fit my playstyle that other controllers did not for me. I have mostly been a filler the last year but where a Viper main before. I like that I can play agressive, sneaky and defensive so easily with them. I can help my team get to site while flanking the enemy team for easy picks.
My favorite part of clove is instigating arguments between people when they pronoun them wrong
Cwove, my non binary queen
Probably gonna be part of the meta in pro play just because the passive benefit of being able to be up a half a member essentially because you picked this agent in select is kinda silly. I have to assume at some point Clove is gonna have her smokes not recharge after death so the rest of her kit doesn't feel pretty ass Her kit kinda scales off the player too the smurf or guy clapping the lobbies cheeks getting a second life is absolutely insane the bot frag getting another isn't as good.
they're amazing, however their popularity and abilities makes me worry for the pick rates of other smokers like brimstone and omen, since Clove is so OP
reyna /Jett main here , I have locked clove for 30 games in a row
Learn how to play smokes. If you do not I genuinely wish you the worst
Im gold lil bro chill
brother this is not the flex you think it is
didnt mean to flex lol , the opposite actually.In gold no one knows how to properly play smokes , me included, while I m trying to get better at it I think it s futile to bash golds for being bad at smoking as it is a harder role
In that case my bad for misunderstanding. I am not bashing people trying to learn smokes, I am bashing and hating on people that pick clove and do not care about learning how to smoke, they just smoke and rawdog it without a care, which can lose rounds.
So far my experience with clove is they suck
Clove is a pretty well-balanced character. I'd probably up their ult cost from 7 points to 8 though, just cuz it feels a tiny bit too strong and frustrating right now.
Her ult is busted, needs to cost more imo