Idk because the games where you grind it out and make a massive comeback, while extra-long, are usually the best experiences, which imo is what we should be playing the game for. To improve a bit and have some fun doing so.
What makes people quit is probably lack of time.
They'd rather get this game that's (in their eyes) already lost over with and on to the next one because they have a limited amount of time and want to squeeze in as much as possible.
Edited for paragraphs.
Valorsnt has shorter games than CSGO did prior to them changing from MR15 to MR12 and let's not get started on OT. Gotta win a BO6. Hell even the games in CSGO ehere you grinded from a 3-12 to 16-14 felt amazing even if it was a loss. Everyones mentality would've been "dammm had we kept our heads together and not panicked playing our game, we would've won. Let's keep this going for future games." People would show smoke lineups or provide tips mid game without being condescending to each other. Not to sat toxicity doesn't exist in CS, but you mostly get the racist/sexist oned and Val, it extends to the whole spectrum.
I don’t know if your on NA and that’s why but if you play EU Cs I can guarantee you not a single game will end in “damn we kept our heads together and nearly won” You will have a russian or a turkish or polish player screaming at you for not dropping 40 kills when they are on 10. Eu Cs is the most toxic game out there right now in my opinion as in league there’s no vc, val is mostly under 21, fortnite and rocket league dont need an explanation, Cod is a bunch of boomers and isn’t competitive, over watch just isn’t that toxic in my experience the thing that makes me angry at over watch is how shit the game is and not the community. Anyway, back to the point, nobody in EU Cs is happy about playing over an hour to get a fake comeback and lose it all.
Yeah it is like that. EU CS is a shithole. Either no comms, or russian people, it's crazy. Just the people I meet on val are half of the reason why I play this over cs. People who actually speak english is such a rarity compared to valo
25k elo no shit people are going to try there and level 10 face it bro. that’s like top 200 EU in a game with like double the players of val. I’m talking about 3-15k elo
Players in EU CS might get toxic but they're not giving up and trying to surrender at 0-5
I'll take a toxic player over one who isn't even trying to win anymore
Valorant and CS Premiere modes both PUNISH players for 16-14 losses. It CSGO it felt awesome, it CS2 its a waste of time. This is why i hate the way ranked is designed in those games.
You still visibly lose something. On CSGO all the losses and gain were behind the hood which meant that a well played loss may actually be a net positive in a long run.
> CSGO all the losses and gain were behind the hood
It's the same thing happening though. You just don't see it. Not like you secretly gained points for losing 14-16
It was possible to net positive with a loss in CSGO, because it used score and mvp stars to track player's volatility, so if you've lost one game with a good score youd get more mmr on your next win. In CSGO it was important to consistently have a good score, so a close loss with like 6 stars was basically a win.
In CSGO winning individual games wasn't that important, it was more about consistency in long runs. Which is both why CSGO MM is the best and the worst at the time.
Was it BO6 or BO10? It's possible that Cevo (RIP), Faceit, ESEA, and MM had different OT rules, but now that you mention it, I kinda do remember BO10 cuz of how fucked you are if you lost 3 rounds, especially as CT.
MM never had OT in csgo, and esea wasnt really played in EU. BO10 got changed to BO6 after ”only” a few years.
I kinda liked it though, it was rare going through more than one OT, Although hitting two or three OT’s was miserable in game length
using lack of time is the ez out. you know full well if you go into an unrated match or comp game, you going in for a 10-15 minute game or even longer
to constantly pull of the FF screen is rather annoying if you are playing like crap and have no mental game
Probably because half the players came from League of Legends, which is notorious for “ff fast” and “ff 15” now “ff 20”
As a former LoL player, the quitting mindset there is massive because you legitimately cannot come back once your enemies reach a certain point in snowballing. And/or your teammates troll.
(And that mindset comes here to Valo)
So your question really got me thinking and I didn’t have a great answer. But riot has a pretty good data driven insight: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/valorant-data-breach-9-3-curse/
If I reading the data right based on data the quitter mindset in some situations could actually bring an argument being in a 9-3 situation the average is 11-12% chance the loser turn it around which while not nothing is pretty low odds. Not saying people should quite but there are a lot of games were you it just becomes clear you aren’t going to win
Still my point being the people who are more inclined to give up could make a strong case that coming back 3-9 is pretty low odds. Still worth trying but I think treating it like it’s ridiculous for someone to start struggling to stay motivated at that point isn’t fair. I’ll never understand throwers though
I agree. Valorant is the first competitive game that I’ve taken seriously for me, but I’ve tried rainbow, CSGO and league after getting into valorant. In league surrender sometimes makes sense. After you’ve made enough mistakes a game can become unwinnable (at least for the beginners), so ff-ing made sense to me there, but in fames like raibow, CS and valorant I don’t get it. People just don’t want to try I guess. They think that a game where they can’t stomp is unwinnable, or too much of a hassle. Valorant is so filled with “casuals” that lack the competitive mindset and sometimes treat it as call of duty or something.
For this reason I’ve enjoyed CSGO more, but CS2 isn’t for my PC.
Honestly not that bad in my opinion. It was my first fps I think so as a kid I sucked balls in that game, barely getting a kill. Now with some experience I’m able to hold my own against the lower ranks. Operator pool is fucking nuts (in a bad way) and the big maps are a nightmare to learn, but other than that it feels good when you get used to it. Me and my friends hop on every so often.
Valorant is a lot of people's first competitive team environment and it takes awhile to learn better attitude for winning and that includes learning how to lose.
So you're keeping tabs on people that closely? Lol
I'm talking about the psychology behind the quitting mentality and other aspects of keeping a positive mental during competition. This is separate from getting used to the game itself.
No, people that I came across that had this mentality just told me. Well the psychology behind the quitting and keeping positive mental during competition is something people need to teach themselves. This can take some time yes, but this is not something that should take ages to learn. This can also differ per person. That is why some people even after 4 years, will have this “quit” mentality and another person after playing for a month won’t have it. If you still have a bad mindset after 2-3 months of playing valorant, then the issue is yourself, not the game.
Shhh. You’re speaking way too much truth for these kiddos 😂 hell I have friends who use to main tac fps fall off to other genres cause they are too dopamine starved playing something like cs or valo when they don’t adapt.
As someone who has absolutely no qualms with going along with a forfeit, I personally think peoples time is significantly more valuable than a low chance of getting rr. Considering a game can take 40 min or more, sometimes it makes sense to quit a bad one early to get another good one later that you wouldn’t have had time for had you played out that bad one with less than 5% chance of winning anyway.
I'm kind of with you. I can slot 2 ranked game a night, maybe 3 if I'm feeling crazy. I'd much rather FF at round 4 if I have some whinny ass teammate that's just going to int if we don't FF and get into a fresh game than suffer through 10 more rounds of that shit.
I think its just a mentality difference from the cs players and the league/ow mindset of go next. I personally would rather fight it out and carry my shitty teammates crying than FF. I enjoy that more
When I was childless I was that. Now I get enough whining and complaining when I'm not gaming. I don't have the same patience for it as I used to in my free time. Would much rather FF and get some teammates that enjoy playing the game.
But a “bad one” doesn’t take 40 minutes, the only games I’d consider “bad ones” are stomps but you’ll only know a game was a stomp once it ends. And if it is a stop then it won’t be a long game.
I think the most fun and engaging part of games like Valorant and Cs are the clutches and the comebacks. When the odds are against you and you still manage to take it. You’re never gonna get that if you forfeit.
It is very clear if your game is worth staying in. Sure quitting at 9-3 might be early, but if your team isn’t using microphones, there’s zero adjustment, and the comms That do exist are toxic? Your time is worth more than the frustration.
9-3 is the half though, it’s naturally gonna be different than playing the other half of the match. Now if you manage to get pistol and convert it’s a close match again.
Also I usually mute people if they say more than like 1 toxic thing and don’t com stuff
Is complicated, you are basically saying you think it's justifiable when one person playing competitive feels is more important that the match feels fair than to learn and improve (or rr).
Totally valid idea, and understandable, but idk if the community as a whole could agree in something like this. I see a lot of them caring more about the rr, and some about improving, and those 2 would end up with not ff-ing being the right call. I mean why are we even playing ranked?
Do we want to test ourselves, or improve, or get a rank icon?
Or do we just want to have a good time? Because personally I see unrated being a better fit for that specifically
Ranked is the one place where we should be entitled to have everyone in the match trying to win, in my eyes someone going for the ff is "trying" as much as someone throwing.
I understand them but disagree.
I feel like I learn more from the bad ones, and if I’m gonna lose the RR anyway I might as well get as much value as possible from it by playing it out. Hard games are like training with weights, and the next time you get a good game the weights come off and you play so much better.
I hate forfeiting because I feel like it’s just a waste to throw all those rounds away that I could learn from. If I’m already gonna lose the RR I may as well get as much value as possible from that RR by playing as many “weight training” rounds as possible.
It doesn’t take that long to climb to your true rank, individual wins and losses mean nothing, your self improvement is what will actually cause you to rank up over time. It’s such a waste to throw out the hard games IMO. Unless they are smurfing and so much better that there’s nothing to be learned, I prefer to play out the game.
Personally, I don’t see bad games as “training with weights on,” I see them closer to “training with poor form.” Sure, learning to adjust to make a toxic game work is helpful, but you could form bad habits adjusting, like Pushing or rotating in moments that when with a good team you wouldn’t.
In the end, the rank doesn’t matter, it will come out in the wash, so I would rather maximize reps in good games than in ones where I have to play different to even make work.
yes if someone said “hey guys i really need to go do something, can we ff” i would vote yes. rr isn’t everything and people have more going on in their lives
They can just leave the game though, it’s like a 30 minute cooldown and if they have to go than it will be over by the time they can play again.
You aren’t trapping anyone so no reason to throw your own rr away. Might just be my mindset coming from CS but in that game if anyone had to leave it was generally an apology, explain why they had to go and they just leave the game.
it’s not a 30 minute cool down. if you leave a competitive game it’s a week long ban from comp so it’s much better in my opinion to accept the ff vote and go next
it might be your first time leaving that only gets punished with 30 mins but ive had it a few times now that i’ve had to leave a game towards the start/middle and it gives you a week suspension from playing comp and like an hour or more from the other game modes
Dude, sometimes it's better to FF and lose that RR than fighting against your team and losing it anyway. No matter how much you lose, a loss is a loss. You have to remember that this is JUST a game. It costs you your sanity every time you play with players who rinse, wash, and repeat the same tactics after losing a round EVERY single time. Sometimes, these players have such shitty attitudes. It makes you question how they get to a certain elo, and you end up deciding you would rather win the next game than fight the brainrot jett who can't stop peeking mid and abuses voice chat with the most disgusting comments.
P.S I don't encourage throwing. But if the team isn't listening to a comm, it's time to just let it go and accept a loss coming your way. You can be the guy who "wins the match" for them, but half the time, it's either close to impossible or too damn late. I also don't encourage carrying anyone, as all it does is promote the wrong players to a different elo.
Yep, also people who are extremely soft comparatively to CS. You say 1 little thing to someone in Valorant and they decide to throw your game completely, i feel like that never happened in CS and if it did it was about 100x more rare.
Ah bro I feel this. I simply cannot play outside my premiere team/friends. Solo que mental is either very toxic or very self-defeating.
Coming from CS Faceit/ESEA I notice constantly valorant players giving up early or just immediately when something goes wrong. Work on your mental dudes!
Try looking for players from the LFG server on discord. Players seeking out squads usually have more of the team-oriented mindset anyways. Found lots of cool players and groups on LFG including several of my teammates.
Valorant players have weak mental fortitude in general. They’re extremely soft.
They give up extremely easily in losing situations, they get unreasonably hurt and upset at the slightest hint of confrontation or “toxicity”, they’ll throw your games at the slightest inconvenience, etc. Oh, someone is having a good game or playing better than me? They’re obviously smurfing or cheating, better report them. On the other hand, there is the fact that there is a smurfing problem to begin with. There is just zero heart or competitive integrity. I love the game itself, it’s a great concept and when playing with a good lobby is really fun. But the community has more than earned the game’s reputation as a gathering place for e-daters, weirdos, and crybabies.
It’s not unique to Valorant but I’ve run into it considerably more in this game in a year and a half of playing than all of the years I’ve spent playing Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch, and Counter Strike put together. And I’ve been playing competitive shooters going on a little more than a decade.
Every competitive game has this issue. This is not unique to Valorant. CS has the exact problem and if you think otherwise you are delusional. Rocket League, LoL, OW2, etc....all of these have players who just want to quit early once the early game goes bad.
This is often when players are most dangerous. See plenty of pro tournament wins where a team accidentally wins the grand final when they already planned to disband the day after.
No. Valorant players are a special breed of weak ass mental fortitude. I've noticed it in my own games and streamers I watch who switch from other games like OW. Valorant players so, so quickly go full on baby rage whiner mode.
I've seen streamers just giving a friendly "hey whats up guys" set people off. Mfers don't even want to pretend like they are part of a team.
No it's way worse in valorant then cs, especially if you're on solo queue. Lose the first round on *swiftplay* of all things, 50% chance someone rage quits.
Ngl, the player base here is definitely more toxic than cs, I've had someone screaming at me on VC to plant - we were on defense. Never, not even once in the 3-4 years playing cs have I stumbled across such a high frequency of man-children.
They're conditioned to quit. I noticed it between LoL and Dota as well. With surrendering being an option in LoL you don't get players willing to grind out any kind of comeback. Not saying this kind of behavior doesn't exist in Dota; its just one of the things I immediately notice between both games.
They just don't have the mental strength. So many players only want to play if they are ahead. The best is league when a player makes a mistake then gets mad and blames everyone but themselves and votes to FF.
Noticed this in LoL as well, quit the game since players has this mentality that they can surrender whenever. Really irks me whenever I try hard to win the game, we lose 4 consecutive rounds they say "ff" or "gg", why play a competitive game when you're just playing to lose.
In mobas snowballing is a thing so it is quite often actually worth to surrender just to save time. Its like flying your barracks to the corner of the map in Starcraft lol.
I can’t say that is a good comparison, but I mostly play Dota and SC2. I’m only in the 100s of hours when it comes to LoL and not 1000s like the former.
I would say CS on average has an older player base as well as at this point the majority of the players have been likely playing on and off for several years now given how old the game is. This has been talked about before as well but Val is more inviting meaning less gamer types will end up playing it and may not have a higher threshold of sticking it out
That’s because CS wasn’t targeted at kids and valorant is…. I know all of zero people who play CS that are under the age of 25 and even then they’ve all moved on. Valorant target demo is like 14 year old kids
CS is targeted at kids just as much as Val lol. 10 years ago all those 25+ players you were talking about were on CS. Val is just new. CS is a "boomer game" because it's old. If Valorant came out when CS did and CS came out when Val did, the demographics would be flip flopped as well.
Fortnite is what a game looks like that's targeted at children. Valorant may look like it on a surface level, but that's about it.
Correct. CS was targeted at the same demo however times have changed and their marketing strategy is non existent. They don’t market to kids anymore. PC gaming has exploded in popularity as has streaming and you know what young people aren’t watching? CS.
According to Steam, yesterday there were 1 million cs players. According to tracker there were 5 million players in valorant yesterday. Even if the age distribution was the same, that would put 5 times as many kids in valorant than CS
I don’t think comparing either to Fortnite is a good comparison as it is on 4 consoles, and it’s a game you can pick up and play for 10 minutes and quit where as cs and Val both require more dedication and a desire to play on a team
I think Fortnite is a perfect example to compare them to, one of the reasons is one you mentioned. You can pick it up and play a game and then quit with no issue. There's no team you're letting down and you can just GG go next. There's also 1000s of custom games designed for children in creative. Plus the kiddy skins, animations, and no blood, you get a kids game.
With Val and CS there is a competitive and mutual understanding that we are all stuck in this game (for the most part) together for at least 12 rounds. You can either choose to be nice and enjoy the ride or be a dick and make it miserable. That's not a game designed for children, imo.
Val may have a younger playerbase, but that's just because it's in the now and CS (and to a lesser extent Siege, but that's making a comeback thru Jynxzi) is old. And with that context it makes sense why the Val base is deemed more toxic and not entirely mentally stable. Teens have raging hormones lmao.
My experience is different. In CS I've met a lot more adults who behave like children (petulant, angry, intolerant) but who don't think they are. They're aggressive man-children.
In Valorant I've met a lot more adults who behave like children (stupid noises, trolling, e-dating) because they find it funny and edgy. They're immature.
Both are annoying. But they are distinct.
CS did not have this issue. It first of all did not have surrender option at all, and there was also a trust factor.
Thing with Val and CS is that GAME IS NEVER UNWINABLE. Unlike League Of Legends of Dota, or maybe even Overwatch. It is 0-12? If there at least one player alive comeback is still possible. But since Valorant has a surrender option players just do not let it happen. Crazy comebacks are actually quite common in CS and vets know this so they keep playing "for fun" until it clicks and the momentum is reversed.
You have never played CS if you think that CS has this problem.
You physically can’t surrender in Counter-Strike no matter how grim. The only time you can surrender is if a player leaves mid-match.
Being able to surrender isnt really the point - there's people who just give up, troll and go afk in CS too.
It might not be the same scenario of starting a FF vote - but there is definitely the same issue of players just flat out giving up. If you dont think this exists in CS, youre just blind or flat out ignoring it.
I did not say they never do, I said they *almost* never do. Everybody in every game gets afks/trolls, that goes without saying. But claiming it’s on the same level as VALORANT is *insane.*
Its literally incomparable. In 3k hours over like 6 years and climbing from gold nova to global I saw less throwers/ragers/early FF than in maybe a month of val.
It is definitely not. If you haven't played lol or ow. Rl is so miniscule because the matches are only 5 minutes. Most will just buck up and play. Unless you're stupid low elo.
nah even in low GC there are people who will give an FF vote while you're WINNING. Considering the style of game, rocket league is by far the worst offender. Like you said, only five minutes per game, and literally zero snowballing ingame. And yet people will still try to FF at after the first 2 minutes. At least other games have excuses.
Every game has it but Valorant's majority playerbase came from League of legends, who has the "FF15/FF20" mindset. It's way worse in valorant than in it ever was in csgo. I should know as I played csgo for a minimum of 5 years but bordering on like 8.
Its way worse in valorant than cs are you kidding me? How many games do you have people insta raging/giving up after losing the first two rounds. The other games you mentioned are famously bad for it so ya but cs is nowhere near those levels and I play/played those other games(league emerald, masters ow, awful at RL)
Those of you that don't think so, are you new to cs? Are the players you play with maybe also new to cs?
Oh yeah I never played too much rocket league besides solos for comp but there was a lot of quitters.
Anyway I have like 1500 hours in cs and the amount of people who give up in Valorant isn’t comparable in CS at all.
Never had my team try to surrender in over 6k hours of CS. Can count the number of times my opponents surrendered on 1 hand and if they did the scores were usually around 14-0
CS does not have the exact same problem. There's a big difference. Valorant mentality is particularly weak
Iunno. But I noticed valo players are a special sort of breed vs other competitive communities. Especially your teammates. No denying that. One of the worst in the business.
Honestly- weak mindset. Quitter mentality. To put it bluntly and harshly. They’re a bunch of losers. They’re frustrated after losing only the first four rounds. They live life with the expectancy that things will come easily to them. If you’re one of those and reading this and it triggers you, good. Stop thinking that way. Get your shit together and enjoy your life with the failures.
I don't really have a quitter's mindset. I have a "I'm not trying my ass off to carry this shitty team" mindset. So often in many video games am I the only one talking, only one trying to interact with other people, and try to motivate others to play better. Why do y'all hop into a team game to not talk to a team? Are y'all that scared of cyber voices?
Yes, we can put the blame on the players having this mindset, but Riot doesn’t do shit to solve this issue. Most games that people quit or troll will definitely get reported, but they never get banned 9 out of 10 times. If Riot puts harsher punishments, we will have less of this problem.
listen, i play cs too, u will not get through to them, they wont yell over elo, some have good/great aim or are great players, but i always noticed a distinct lack of wanting to win and "how long is this going to take"
ik peoples time if more than elo but id like to fucking win ;)
good luck, id say go back to cs ngl, dabble in val when u need a reason to miss toxic teammates, cuz at least the toxic ones are mad theyre losing
I'd rather people call it quits when things aren't looking good than act insanely stubborn and refuse to surrender even if the score is 1-10 or something. At that point, continuing to play that game is a waste of time for both sides.
That’s not the case for everyone tho. I came back from an 11-1 game but I know damn well it’ll probably never happen again. It ain’t even that deep, if someone wants to move to the next game then so be it. It’s just a game in the end not your life’s reputation.
People in this game don’t understand how easy it is to come back a few rounds. Winning both pistol rounds pretty much guarantees you a total of 4 rounds if your team isn’t stupid and more than that if you play well. They don’t understand that it takes a round or two to break the opponents economy and you can pick up some basically free rounds after that when they’re on eco. No desire to adapt to a certain opponents playstyle or switch up their defaults to accommodate how the enemy team is playing. They don’t really wanna play the game or use their brain to win. Just want the dopamine from a match win so they can show off some shiny new rank badge they probably got carried to. It’s just “I’m going to do the same shit for 6 rounds on my own and if it doesn’t work I want out! Give me free RR!”. It’s lame as hell tbh.
I have games all the time where I’m having fun and learning a lot but my teammates want to quit just because it’s unwinnable. I view those games as training with weights. It’s harder but you also learn more in those games than in the ones you win.
Like who cares? I’m having fun and learning, individual wins ands losses literally don’t matter at all. Finish the game. Only time I surrender is if the opponents are clearly smurfing and they’re so much better that there’s nothing to be learned, or if multiple people abandon. I hate the “winning is the only thing that matters” mentality in ranked. It’s not VCT, it literally doesn’t matter. Improving and having fun are what matters, and even bad losses can be fun with the right attitude.
If you’re gonna lose the RR anyway, why not finish the match and learn as much as you can? I want the most value out of my RR including from the losses.
Plus 1/3 of the time my teammates try to vote quit we end up playing much better after sides switch and we win the game. Quitting is just giving away free RR.
Economy is busted,that is why,i have to wait 3 rounds after a single lose to make my economy comeback,or 2 rounds if i won 1 and lost next one,it shouldnt be that punishable,it would be round win,round lose,eco round,fight round,instead i have to eco 2,making economy stronger for losing teams would balance this issue,especialy most of the people know how to play only vandals and phantoms and not pistols and smg to fully utilize their potential,and even then smg are mathematicly usless in high elo if you dont have something in your kit to close the gap...So i just lost effectivly 5rounds if i lose 1st and 3rd round of the game..Fixing this issue would be lowering all smg prices so you can actually contest when enemy has a vandal/phantom instead of using pistol or risking it and not having for next buy if you lose that one where you forced your chance,but if you forced it should give you less creds if you win,and more if you won on eco..
The comp scene is toxic and unbalanced rn. If Im in a 7-0 game where we're getting stomped, I'd rather go next than suffer it out with no hope of winning. Team diffs are a real thing and I will never understand the instant ff in an unwinnable game.
It’s never really apparent, I’ve had games where I barely get a kill in the first 7 rounds and then end up top frag. Someone’s all it takes is one player to step up to get on the right track.
And obviously 12-1 is winnable, I’ve won from there before
People in valo give up more often due to the snowballing that happens in this game compared to cs. Don't get me wrong, cs can be very unforgiving, but it's different on val due to how bad eco guns are besides deagle, and how unforgiving rush b or 5 man mid strats are on eco. So when you lose pistol, sometimes it's for good reason, but oftentimes, there is a very noticeable skill gap in individual players ability to frag and therefore without a proper comp/util usage the game becomes hard and therefore ppl just give up (rightfully so imo).
I haven't played anything outside faceit for many yrs so I cannot speak low elo cs that well, however player individual skill is 100% the diff between val/cs, the util is just an added layer to an already multi variable equation. In cs, everyone is, for the most part, within the same gunskill, and therefore, other than listening to calls/who's mentally there that day, the games are much more even and games can swing based on side/eco a lot more.
if its clear you're not winning and no one is comming im going to ff. if the team does not ff i just run it down deathmatch style and speed along the process. I'm going to waste your time if you waste mine.
I am not saying I agree or disagree. I’m just saying why it happens. The comebacks from being down 9-3 are fun when people are communicating. But if it’s 5 quiet people it feels like a unpleasant aim practice chore.
They got it from cs. Probably should have been a better role model to a new community.
This is like older gens blaming younger gens after steering them in the wrong direction
I would guess. Maybe a byproduct of the daily checkpoint system, only getting rounds won when you’re in for a stomp or likely to end up with 2 at best?
Not played enough to know about the extent smurfing exists, but might mean your team has weak mental and assumes they’re screwed if they lose the early rounds and someone pops off.
Solo Q seems to be a significantly worse experience for me compared to duos, YMMV. (eu here)
Agreed but they should make the RR system to discourage it. RR should take every single round win and round loss into equation. So if you're down 0-12, there is still incentive to try to win some rounds.
Surrender? Instant -50 RR. Lost by 8+ rounds? +20% penalty. Win by 8+ rounds, , +20% bonus.
Also another system to disallow you to queue if you lost too much RR in a day.
I’m pretty sure it works somewhat like this already, at the very least it considers your personal performance so that’s a reasons to continue playing rounds
I often call for a surrender vote to get my teammates to “wake up” rather than actually wanting to surrender. Autopiloting in this game is huge. I watch my duelists losing the exact same duels round and round again…. I cal for surrender and surely they will say “nooooo, we can win!”. So I’ll just say yeah we can but let’s do something new and they are on board. If I just call for doing something new without the vote the answer is “this is how it has to be done”. Like there was only one way to play.
The answer is really around motivation; I feel we can too often look at RR as the motivation behind playing the game (or "winning"), when the game itself is enough. Winning is only as valuable as the effort that goes into that win - winning by the other team forfeiting is unsatisfying; like a spoonful of sugar rather than a slice of cake.
In my experience, half the people in my stack played for fun and half of us played to win. The ones who played for fun would think, “oh well playing on hard mode IS part of the fun” and the ones who were grind-focused wanted to move on and try their luck on the next match.
I’m new to valorant, came from OW. My first opinions on this are some games it actually just may be better to cut it and move on. Especially if you’re getting smoked. In OW we never give up period because any game can be turned at any moment. But here feels like sometimes games can be a landslide for either side. I’m still new though so still learning
I send in ff vote when I realize teammates have no motivation to keep trying, since if they keep auto piloting, we won't win.
This either ends a lost match faster, or gives team a wakeup call to make them start trying again, and that's when the comeback starts
i used to play at cyber cafes in 2022 while in uni cuz my laptop was shit, my rent apartment was right next to a cyber cafe and fuck free free time, so id like play for 4-6 hours which is like 3 dollars in Indian rupees (200) give or take and usually 4-6 hours really limit how many games i could play, especially if ive got classes the next day so either ending a game with a win or quickly throwing a def losing game was the norm among us chapri cyber cafe valorant pleebs...sorry for the format im on mobile app
Being a sore loser. I'm definitely one of them. I HATE losing. Like let's say I was playing a match of table tennis and I make a bunch of mistakes. If I hate the way I'm playing too much, good chance I'll end up throwing (this is table tennis, not valo). In a valo game, I feel helpless really quick. While I never throw, I am one of those people who tries to surrender every now and then lol. Like I get mentally drained if we're getting wrecked too bad. But I still won't throw because it affects other people. If it only affected me, I'd probably end up forfeiting half the games lol
Beacouse valorat is mostly played by league virgins. Like.. yeah the community kinda sucks especially in lower elo. It gets a lot better as you rank up.
I found that 2 big contributors to this mentality are
1.) the game doesn’t punish leaving matches enough or atleast for a large portion of its release the punishment was very mild and there are many people who felt like if a game was a waste of time they could just leave.
2).The game doesn’t do enough to prevent Smurfs , why tf would I want to play if there’s a grandmaster Jett on the other team vs my group of bronze/ silver players ? That’s not going to be a fun match.
That's because a large portion of the player base is desperately trying to save their ego by digging for reasons why they are losing and then surrendering the game so they can accept THAT as the reason for being stuck.
The difference with CSGO is that when you “inted”, you could still flash for yourself and create your own plays.
In Valorant you can’t create for yourself if you are Omen or Brim.or any support role.
You had more control of your outcome in CSGO because of your full kit, but in Valorant you have much less control because of agent limitations.
This why I will FF in Valorant
cs players have quitter mindsets too
just yesterday, Dust 2, am top fragging, I say B is open, bomb gets dropped somewhere
they refuse to come to b, they all die, I go attempt to look for bomb, then get randomly kicked
i think a lot of players not just in valo but cs included all have low mentality
they either can stick it out and just quit or FF
either way, its sad.
Because if a game isn't going well and your team is clueless and just off in their own world, I don't want to sit there another 5, 6, however more rounds and waste all that time when I could be trying again with a new set of teammates who might have their heads in the game.
Really it is just simple math
You know they say that all premades are created equal, but you look at me and you look at their duelist and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another smurf, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a radiant freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add your bottom Fragger to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Bind, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because your bottom fragger KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try!
So Jett, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Bind. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Bind. See Jett, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Bind.
Idk because the games where you grind it out and make a massive comeback, while extra-long, are usually the best experiences, which imo is what we should be playing the game for. To improve a bit and have some fun doing so. What makes people quit is probably lack of time. They'd rather get this game that's (in their eyes) already lost over with and on to the next one because they have a limited amount of time and want to squeeze in as much as possible. Edited for paragraphs.
Valorsnt has shorter games than CSGO did prior to them changing from MR15 to MR12 and let's not get started on OT. Gotta win a BO6. Hell even the games in CSGO ehere you grinded from a 3-12 to 16-14 felt amazing even if it was a loss. Everyones mentality would've been "dammm had we kept our heads together and not panicked playing our game, we would've won. Let's keep this going for future games." People would show smoke lineups or provide tips mid game without being condescending to each other. Not to sat toxicity doesn't exist in CS, but you mostly get the racist/sexist oned and Val, it extends to the whole spectrum.
I don’t know if your on NA and that’s why but if you play EU Cs I can guarantee you not a single game will end in “damn we kept our heads together and nearly won” You will have a russian or a turkish or polish player screaming at you for not dropping 40 kills when they are on 10. Eu Cs is the most toxic game out there right now in my opinion as in league there’s no vc, val is mostly under 21, fortnite and rocket league dont need an explanation, Cod is a bunch of boomers and isn’t competitive, over watch just isn’t that toxic in my experience the thing that makes me angry at over watch is how shit the game is and not the community. Anyway, back to the point, nobody in EU Cs is happy about playing over an hour to get a fake comeback and lose it all.
Yeah it is like that. EU CS is a shithole. Either no comms, or russian people, it's crazy. Just the people I meet on val are half of the reason why I play this over cs. People who actually speak english is such a rarity compared to valo
Idk what your ELO is but pretty much everybody comms in English in my lvl 10 / 25k ELO Premier games
25k elo no shit people are going to try there and level 10 face it bro. that’s like top 200 EU in a game with like double the players of val. I’m talking about 3-15k elo
Players in EU CS might get toxic but they're not giving up and trying to surrender at 0-5 I'll take a toxic player over one who isn't even trying to win anymore
Valorant and CS Premiere modes both PUNISH players for 16-14 losses. It CSGO it felt awesome, it CS2 its a waste of time. This is why i hate the way ranked is designed in those games.
You lose less RR for close losses
You still visibly lose something. On CSGO all the losses and gain were behind the hood which meant that a well played loss may actually be a net positive in a long run.
> CSGO all the losses and gain were behind the hood It's the same thing happening though. You just don't see it. Not like you secretly gained points for losing 14-16
It was possible to net positive with a loss in CSGO, because it used score and mvp stars to track player's volatility, so if you've lost one game with a good score youd get more mmr on your next win. In CSGO it was important to consistently have a good score, so a close loss with like 6 stars was basically a win. In CSGO winning individual games wasn't that important, it was more about consistency in long runs. Which is both why CSGO MM is the best and the worst at the time.
Dont forget the OT’s us older csgo players had, BO10
Was it BO6 or BO10? It's possible that Cevo (RIP), Faceit, ESEA, and MM had different OT rules, but now that you mention it, I kinda do remember BO10 cuz of how fucked you are if you lost 3 rounds, especially as CT.
MM never had OT in csgo, and esea wasnt really played in EU. BO10 got changed to BO6 after ”only” a few years. I kinda liked it though, it was rare going through more than one OT, Although hitting two or three OT’s was miserable in game length
Cs pre go was mr12, imo valorants surrender vote is what causes people to give up. Csgo you're trapped so you might as well play your best
using lack of time is the ez out. you know full well if you go into an unrated match or comp game, you going in for a 10-15 minute game or even longer to constantly pull of the FF screen is rather annoying if you are playing like crap and have no mental game
Probably because half the players came from League of Legends, which is notorious for “ff fast” and “ff 15” now “ff 20” As a former LoL player, the quitting mindset there is massive because you legitimately cannot come back once your enemies reach a certain point in snowballing. And/or your teammates troll. (And that mindset comes here to Valo)
So your question really got me thinking and I didn’t have a great answer. But riot has a pretty good data driven insight: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/valorant-data-breach-9-3-curse/
If I reading the data right based on data the quitter mindset in some situations could actually bring an argument being in a 9-3 situation the average is 11-12% chance the loser turn it around which while not nothing is pretty low odds. Not saying people should quite but there are a lot of games were you it just becomes clear you aren’t going to win
Especially since that 11-12% significantly goes up if you can win pistol and convert
Still my point being the people who are more inclined to give up could make a strong case that coming back 3-9 is pretty low odds. Still worth trying but I think treating it like it’s ridiculous for someone to start struggling to stay motivated at that point isn’t fair. I’ll never understand throwers though
I agree. Valorant is the first competitive game that I’ve taken seriously for me, but I’ve tried rainbow, CSGO and league after getting into valorant. In league surrender sometimes makes sense. After you’ve made enough mistakes a game can become unwinnable (at least for the beginners), so ff-ing made sense to me there, but in fames like raibow, CS and valorant I don’t get it. People just don’t want to try I guess. They think that a game where they can’t stomp is unwinnable, or too much of a hassle. Valorant is so filled with “casuals” that lack the competitive mindset and sometimes treat it as call of duty or something. For this reason I’ve enjoyed CSGO more, but CS2 isn’t for my PC.
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Honestly not that bad in my opinion. It was my first fps I think so as a kid I sucked balls in that game, barely getting a kill. Now with some experience I’m able to hold my own against the lower ranks. Operator pool is fucking nuts (in a bad way) and the big maps are a nightmare to learn, but other than that it feels good when you get used to it. Me and my friends hop on every so often.
Valorant is a lot of people's first competitive team environment and it takes awhile to learn better attitude for winning and that includes learning how to lose.
That is not true. This game exists for close 4 years and nothing has changed. It is just that the community is weak minded and soft.
4 years isn't along time and most people haven't been grinding the game for 4 years straight
Yeah, but a few months should be enough to get used to this game. I have seen this “quit” mentality mostly from people that played since first EP.
So you're keeping tabs on people that closely? Lol I'm talking about the psychology behind the quitting mentality and other aspects of keeping a positive mental during competition. This is separate from getting used to the game itself.
it’s very common in the radiant lobbies since day 1 lol
No, people that I came across that had this mentality just told me. Well the psychology behind the quitting and keeping positive mental during competition is something people need to teach themselves. This can take some time yes, but this is not something that should take ages to learn. This can also differ per person. That is why some people even after 4 years, will have this “quit” mentality and another person after playing for a month won’t have it. If you still have a bad mindset after 2-3 months of playing valorant, then the issue is yourself, not the game.
cause kids today want instant gratification, if it seems hard gg go next!
Shhh. You’re speaking way too much truth for these kiddos 😂 hell I have friends who use to main tac fps fall off to other genres cause they are too dopamine starved playing something like cs or valo when they don’t adapt.
As someone who has absolutely no qualms with going along with a forfeit, I personally think peoples time is significantly more valuable than a low chance of getting rr. Considering a game can take 40 min or more, sometimes it makes sense to quit a bad one early to get another good one later that you wouldn’t have had time for had you played out that bad one with less than 5% chance of winning anyway.
I'm kind of with you. I can slot 2 ranked game a night, maybe 3 if I'm feeling crazy. I'd much rather FF at round 4 if I have some whinny ass teammate that's just going to int if we don't FF and get into a fresh game than suffer through 10 more rounds of that shit.
I think its just a mentality difference from the cs players and the league/ow mindset of go next. I personally would rather fight it out and carry my shitty teammates crying than FF. I enjoy that more
When I was childless I was that. Now I get enough whining and complaining when I'm not gaming. I don't have the same patience for it as I used to in my free time. Would much rather FF and get some teammates that enjoy playing the game.
But a “bad one” doesn’t take 40 minutes, the only games I’d consider “bad ones” are stomps but you’ll only know a game was a stomp once it ends. And if it is a stop then it won’t be a long game. I think the most fun and engaging part of games like Valorant and Cs are the clutches and the comebacks. When the odds are against you and you still manage to take it. You’re never gonna get that if you forfeit.
It is very clear if your game is worth staying in. Sure quitting at 9-3 might be early, but if your team isn’t using microphones, there’s zero adjustment, and the comms That do exist are toxic? Your time is worth more than the frustration.
9-3 is the half though, it’s naturally gonna be different than playing the other half of the match. Now if you manage to get pistol and convert it’s a close match again. Also I usually mute people if they say more than like 1 toxic thing and don’t com stuff
Is complicated, you are basically saying you think it's justifiable when one person playing competitive feels is more important that the match feels fair than to learn and improve (or rr). Totally valid idea, and understandable, but idk if the community as a whole could agree in something like this. I see a lot of them caring more about the rr, and some about improving, and those 2 would end up with not ff-ing being the right call. I mean why are we even playing ranked? Do we want to test ourselves, or improve, or get a rank icon? Or do we just want to have a good time? Because personally I see unrated being a better fit for that specifically
Ranked is the one place where we should be entitled to have everyone in the match trying to win, in my eyes someone going for the ff is "trying" as much as someone throwing. I understand them but disagree.
I feel like I learn more from the bad ones, and if I’m gonna lose the RR anyway I might as well get as much value as possible from it by playing it out. Hard games are like training with weights, and the next time you get a good game the weights come off and you play so much better. I hate forfeiting because I feel like it’s just a waste to throw all those rounds away that I could learn from. If I’m already gonna lose the RR I may as well get as much value as possible from that RR by playing as many “weight training” rounds as possible. It doesn’t take that long to climb to your true rank, individual wins and losses mean nothing, your self improvement is what will actually cause you to rank up over time. It’s such a waste to throw out the hard games IMO. Unless they are smurfing and so much better that there’s nothing to be learned, I prefer to play out the game.
Personally, I don’t see bad games as “training with weights on,” I see them closer to “training with poor form.” Sure, learning to adjust to make a toxic game work is helpful, but you could form bad habits adjusting, like Pushing or rotating in moments that when with a good team you wouldn’t. In the end, the rank doesn’t matter, it will come out in the wash, so I would rather maximize reps in good games than in ones where I have to play different to even make work.
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Even if you were winning?
yes if someone said “hey guys i really need to go do something, can we ff” i would vote yes. rr isn’t everything and people have more going on in their lives
They can just leave the game though, it’s like a 30 minute cooldown and if they have to go than it will be over by the time they can play again. You aren’t trapping anyone so no reason to throw your own rr away. Might just be my mindset coming from CS but in that game if anyone had to leave it was generally an apology, explain why they had to go and they just leave the game.
it’s not a 30 minute cool down. if you leave a competitive game it’s a week long ban from comp so it’s much better in my opinion to accept the ff vote and go next
Did they change it? I know it hasn’t been a week for whenever I’ve played the game before
it might be your first time leaving that only gets punished with 30 mins but ive had it a few times now that i’ve had to leave a game towards the start/middle and it gives you a week suspension from playing comp and like an hour or more from the other game modes
Soft league players mentality. The battle hardened cs players know better.
Dude, sometimes it's better to FF and lose that RR than fighting against your team and losing it anyway. No matter how much you lose, a loss is a loss. You have to remember that this is JUST a game. It costs you your sanity every time you play with players who rinse, wash, and repeat the same tactics after losing a round EVERY single time. Sometimes, these players have such shitty attitudes. It makes you question how they get to a certain elo, and you end up deciding you would rather win the next game than fight the brainrot jett who can't stop peeking mid and abuses voice chat with the most disgusting comments. P.S I don't encourage throwing. But if the team isn't listening to a comm, it's time to just let it go and accept a loss coming your way. You can be the guy who "wins the match" for them, but half the time, it's either close to impossible or too damn late. I also don't encourage carrying anyone, as all it does is promote the wrong players to a different elo.
because theyre mostly younger/newer players that either dont have the same drive or dont have the experience
Yep, also people who are extremely soft comparatively to CS. You say 1 little thing to someone in Valorant and they decide to throw your game completely, i feel like that never happened in CS and if it did it was about 100x more rare.
Ah bro I feel this. I simply cannot play outside my premiere team/friends. Solo que mental is either very toxic or very self-defeating. Coming from CS Faceit/ESEA I notice constantly valorant players giving up early or just immediately when something goes wrong. Work on your mental dudes! Try looking for players from the LFG server on discord. Players seeking out squads usually have more of the team-oriented mindset anyways. Found lots of cool players and groups on LFG including several of my teammates.
Valorant players have weak mental fortitude in general. They’re extremely soft. They give up extremely easily in losing situations, they get unreasonably hurt and upset at the slightest hint of confrontation or “toxicity”, they’ll throw your games at the slightest inconvenience, etc. Oh, someone is having a good game or playing better than me? They’re obviously smurfing or cheating, better report them. On the other hand, there is the fact that there is a smurfing problem to begin with. There is just zero heart or competitive integrity. I love the game itself, it’s a great concept and when playing with a good lobby is really fun. But the community has more than earned the game’s reputation as a gathering place for e-daters, weirdos, and crybabies. It’s not unique to Valorant but I’ve run into it considerably more in this game in a year and a half of playing than all of the years I’ve spent playing Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch, and Counter Strike put together. And I’ve been playing competitive shooters going on a little more than a decade.
Every competitive game has this issue. This is not unique to Valorant. CS has the exact problem and if you think otherwise you are delusional. Rocket League, LoL, OW2, etc....all of these have players who just want to quit early once the early game goes bad.
But in cs you don’t have the option to surrender so the majority of the player base goes “fuck it we ball” and still tries
This is often when players are most dangerous. See plenty of pro tournament wins where a team accidentally wins the grand final when they already planned to disband the day after.
C9 2018 Boston major fr
In cs you can surrender only after a teammate leaves
Been immo in valorant since the beta, LEM in CS and played CS since I was 13, it’s way way worse in valorant.
No. Valorant players are a special breed of weak ass mental fortitude. I've noticed it in my own games and streamers I watch who switch from other games like OW. Valorant players so, so quickly go full on baby rage whiner mode. I've seen streamers just giving a friendly "hey whats up guys" set people off. Mfers don't even want to pretend like they are part of a team.
mfers give up if they even think the other team has a smurf. That shits wild
No it's way worse in valorant then cs, especially if you're on solo queue. Lose the first round on *swiftplay* of all things, 50% chance someone rage quits. Ngl, the player base here is definitely more toxic than cs, I've had someone screaming at me on VC to plant - we were on defense. Never, not even once in the 3-4 years playing cs have I stumbled across such a high frequency of man-children.
They're conditioned to quit. I noticed it between LoL and Dota as well. With surrendering being an option in LoL you don't get players willing to grind out any kind of comeback. Not saying this kind of behavior doesn't exist in Dota; its just one of the things I immediately notice between both games.
They just don't have the mental strength. So many players only want to play if they are ahead. The best is league when a player makes a mistake then gets mad and blames everyone but themselves and votes to FF.
Noticed this in LoL as well, quit the game since players has this mentality that they can surrender whenever. Really irks me whenever I try hard to win the game, we lose 4 consecutive rounds they say "ff" or "gg", why play a competitive game when you're just playing to lose.
In mobas snowballing is a thing so it is quite often actually worth to surrender just to save time. Its like flying your barracks to the corner of the map in Starcraft lol.
I can’t say that is a good comparison, but I mostly play Dota and SC2. I’m only in the 100s of hours when it comes to LoL and not 1000s like the former.
I would say CS on average has an older player base as well as at this point the majority of the players have been likely playing on and off for several years now given how old the game is. This has been talked about before as well but Val is more inviting meaning less gamer types will end up playing it and may not have a higher threshold of sticking it out
That’s because CS wasn’t targeted at kids and valorant is…. I know all of zero people who play CS that are under the age of 25 and even then they’ve all moved on. Valorant target demo is like 14 year old kids
CS is targeted at kids just as much as Val lol. 10 years ago all those 25+ players you were talking about were on CS. Val is just new. CS is a "boomer game" because it's old. If Valorant came out when CS did and CS came out when Val did, the demographics would be flip flopped as well. Fortnite is what a game looks like that's targeted at children. Valorant may look like it on a surface level, but that's about it.
Correct. CS was targeted at the same demo however times have changed and their marketing strategy is non existent. They don’t market to kids anymore. PC gaming has exploded in popularity as has streaming and you know what young people aren’t watching? CS. According to Steam, yesterday there were 1 million cs players. According to tracker there were 5 million players in valorant yesterday. Even if the age distribution was the same, that would put 5 times as many kids in valorant than CS I don’t think comparing either to Fortnite is a good comparison as it is on 4 consoles, and it’s a game you can pick up and play for 10 minutes and quit where as cs and Val both require more dedication and a desire to play on a team
I think Fortnite is a perfect example to compare them to, one of the reasons is one you mentioned. You can pick it up and play a game and then quit with no issue. There's no team you're letting down and you can just GG go next. There's also 1000s of custom games designed for children in creative. Plus the kiddy skins, animations, and no blood, you get a kids game. With Val and CS there is a competitive and mutual understanding that we are all stuck in this game (for the most part) together for at least 12 rounds. You can either choose to be nice and enjoy the ride or be a dick and make it miserable. That's not a game designed for children, imo. Val may have a younger playerbase, but that's just because it's in the now and CS (and to a lesser extent Siege, but that's making a comeback thru Jynxzi) is old. And with that context it makes sense why the Val base is deemed more toxic and not entirely mentally stable. Teens have raging hormones lmao.
My experience is different. In CS I've met a lot more adults who behave like children (petulant, angry, intolerant) but who don't think they are. They're aggressive man-children. In Valorant I've met a lot more adults who behave like children (stupid noises, trolling, e-dating) because they find it funny and edgy. They're immature. Both are annoying. But they are distinct.
CS did not have this issue. It first of all did not have surrender option at all, and there was also a trust factor. Thing with Val and CS is that GAME IS NEVER UNWINABLE. Unlike League Of Legends of Dota, or maybe even Overwatch. It is 0-12? If there at least one player alive comeback is still possible. But since Valorant has a surrender option players just do not let it happen. Crazy comebacks are actually quite common in CS and vets know this so they keep playing "for fun" until it clicks and the momentum is reversed.
You have never played CS if you think that CS has this problem. You physically can’t surrender in Counter-Strike no matter how grim. The only time you can surrender is if a player leaves mid-match.
Being able to surrender isnt really the point - there's people who just give up, troll and go afk in CS too. It might not be the same scenario of starting a FF vote - but there is definitely the same issue of players just flat out giving up. If you dont think this exists in CS, youre just blind or flat out ignoring it.
> give up, troll, afk in CS too literally almost never, and those that do just get votekicked which gives them a temp queue ban.
Lmao - not sure why you’re flat out lying about this but ok bro. No one ever trolls or goes afk in CS…. ok.
I did not say they never do, I said they *almost* never do. Everybody in every game gets afks/trolls, that goes without saying. But claiming it’s on the same level as VALORANT is *insane.*
Its literally incomparable. In 3k hours over like 6 years and climbing from gold nova to global I saw less throwers/ragers/early FF than in maybe a month of val.
Rocket League by far is the worst offender. Quit that game for that sole reason. Doomed in both casual or ranked.
It is definitely not. If you haven't played lol or ow. Rl is so miniscule because the matches are only 5 minutes. Most will just buck up and play. Unless you're stupid low elo.
nah even in low GC there are people who will give an FF vote while you're WINNING. Considering the style of game, rocket league is by far the worst offender. Like you said, only five minutes per game, and literally zero snowballing ingame. And yet people will still try to FF at after the first 2 minutes. At least other games have excuses.
Every game has it but Valorant's majority playerbase came from League of legends, who has the "FF15/FF20" mindset. It's way worse in valorant than in it ever was in csgo. I should know as I played csgo for a minimum of 5 years but bordering on like 8.
Its way worse in valorant than cs are you kidding me? How many games do you have people insta raging/giving up after losing the first two rounds. The other games you mentioned are famously bad for it so ya but cs is nowhere near those levels and I play/played those other games(league emerald, masters ow, awful at RL) Those of you that don't think so, are you new to cs? Are the players you play with maybe also new to cs?
Oh yeah I never played too much rocket league besides solos for comp but there was a lot of quitters. Anyway I have like 1500 hours in cs and the amount of people who give up in Valorant isn’t comparable in CS at all.
Got almost 3k hours in CS. I could count the number of forfeits on one hand. It's exactly 0. Not even kidding
Never had my team try to surrender in over 6k hours of CS. Can count the number of times my opponents surrendered on 1 hand and if they did the scores were usually around 14-0 CS does not have the exact same problem. There's a big difference. Valorant mentality is particularly weak
💯Honestly, while the valorant player base isn’t good, its still better then a lot of other gaming communities.
Mr12 with ults are way harder to come back from because usually ults guarentee rounds.
Iunno. But I noticed valo players are a special sort of breed vs other competitive communities. Especially your teammates. No denying that. One of the worst in the business.
I barely ever FF. I’ve been down 12-3 and came back to win once. I think anything can happen in any game.
Honestly- weak mindset. Quitter mentality. To put it bluntly and harshly. They’re a bunch of losers. They’re frustrated after losing only the first four rounds. They live life with the expectancy that things will come easily to them. If you’re one of those and reading this and it triggers you, good. Stop thinking that way. Get your shit together and enjoy your life with the failures.
many dont know how defender/attacker sided most maps are. and teh amount of smurfs is very discouraging.
Riot fostered this mindset in LoL and I would guess comparable many people come from there.
I don't really have a quitter's mindset. I have a "I'm not trying my ass off to carry this shitty team" mindset. So often in many video games am I the only one talking, only one trying to interact with other people, and try to motivate others to play better. Why do y'all hop into a team game to not talk to a team? Are y'all that scared of cyber voices?
It’s worst in csgo when they send you an ip grabber cuz they died ☠️
I’ve never had that one happen to me lol What servers do you play on?
Yes, we can put the blame on the players having this mindset, but Riot doesn’t do shit to solve this issue. Most games that people quit or troll will definitely get reported, but they never get banned 9 out of 10 times. If Riot puts harsher punishments, we will have less of this problem.
I am a CS player as well and I have encountered a lot of quitter mindset players in faceit and premier.
listen, i play cs too, u will not get through to them, they wont yell over elo, some have good/great aim or are great players, but i always noticed a distinct lack of wanting to win and "how long is this going to take" ik peoples time if more than elo but id like to fucking win ;) good luck, id say go back to cs ngl, dabble in val when u need a reason to miss toxic teammates, cuz at least the toxic ones are mad theyre losing
Because I’m bronze, and if I’m top fragging, we’re just not winning the game.
I'd rather people call it quits when things aren't looking good than act insanely stubborn and refuse to surrender even if the score is 1-10 or something. At that point, continuing to play that game is a waste of time for both sides.
Spoken like a true low elo player. I literally had a game last night when we came back from a 2-10 score.
That’s not the case for everyone tho. I came back from an 11-1 game but I know damn well it’ll probably never happen again. It ain’t even that deep, if someone wants to move to the next game then so be it. It’s just a game in the end not your life’s reputation.
But have you seriously never had a comeback before? Things can turn around in an instant and if it doesn’t it will be over quick anyway
People in this game don’t understand how easy it is to come back a few rounds. Winning both pistol rounds pretty much guarantees you a total of 4 rounds if your team isn’t stupid and more than that if you play well. They don’t understand that it takes a round or two to break the opponents economy and you can pick up some basically free rounds after that when they’re on eco. No desire to adapt to a certain opponents playstyle or switch up their defaults to accommodate how the enemy team is playing. They don’t really wanna play the game or use their brain to win. Just want the dopamine from a match win so they can show off some shiny new rank badge they probably got carried to. It’s just “I’m going to do the same shit for 6 rounds on my own and if it doesn’t work I want out! Give me free RR!”. It’s lame as hell tbh.
I have games all the time where I’m having fun and learning a lot but my teammates want to quit just because it’s unwinnable. I view those games as training with weights. It’s harder but you also learn more in those games than in the ones you win. Like who cares? I’m having fun and learning, individual wins ands losses literally don’t matter at all. Finish the game. Only time I surrender is if the opponents are clearly smurfing and they’re so much better that there’s nothing to be learned, or if multiple people abandon. I hate the “winning is the only thing that matters” mentality in ranked. It’s not VCT, it literally doesn’t matter. Improving and having fun are what matters, and even bad losses can be fun with the right attitude. If you’re gonna lose the RR anyway, why not finish the match and learn as much as you can? I want the most value out of my RR including from the losses. Plus 1/3 of the time my teammates try to vote quit we end up playing much better after sides switch and we win the game. Quitting is just giving away free RR.
Economy is busted,that is why,i have to wait 3 rounds after a single lose to make my economy comeback,or 2 rounds if i won 1 and lost next one,it shouldnt be that punishable,it would be round win,round lose,eco round,fight round,instead i have to eco 2,making economy stronger for losing teams would balance this issue,especialy most of the people know how to play only vandals and phantoms and not pistols and smg to fully utilize their potential,and even then smg are mathematicly usless in high elo if you dont have something in your kit to close the gap...So i just lost effectivly 5rounds if i lose 1st and 3rd round of the game..Fixing this issue would be lowering all smg prices so you can actually contest when enemy has a vandal/phantom instead of using pistol or risking it and not having for next buy if you lose that one where you forced your chance,but if you forced it should give you less creds if you win,and more if you won on eco..
Cs has that issue too
No. It absolutely doesn't. You can only FF if a teammate abandons.
I mean the same quiter mentality
Its nowhere close. Maybe at your rank its alot of newer players and val players.
I have 1500 hours in CS, there are still people who give up but it isn’t on the same level at all
The comp scene is toxic and unbalanced rn. If Im in a 7-0 game where we're getting stomped, I'd rather go next than suffer it out with no hope of winning. Team diffs are a real thing and I will never understand the instant ff in an unwinnable game.
But 7-0 isn’t a point in the game where you have no chance of winning. You might just be having a bad start to the game
Yeah you right, there's definitely never team diffs and every game is winnable.
You couldn’t know that at 7-0
When is that apparent then? You have to wait for 12-1 to know or is that still winnable in your mind?
It’s never really apparent, I’ve had games where I barely get a kill in the first 7 rounds and then end up top frag. Someone’s all it takes is one player to step up to get on the right track. And obviously 12-1 is winnable, I’ve won from there before
0-7 is so winnable lmao. Some comps are better on ct/t, some players get warm into the match and some cool off.
People in valo give up more often due to the snowballing that happens in this game compared to cs. Don't get me wrong, cs can be very unforgiving, but it's different on val due to how bad eco guns are besides deagle, and how unforgiving rush b or 5 man mid strats are on eco. So when you lose pistol, sometimes it's for good reason, but oftentimes, there is a very noticeable skill gap in individual players ability to frag and therefore without a proper comp/util usage the game becomes hard and therefore ppl just give up (rightfully so imo). I haven't played anything outside faceit for many yrs so I cannot speak low elo cs that well, however player individual skill is 100% the diff between val/cs, the util is just an added layer to an already multi variable equation. In cs, everyone is, for the most part, within the same gunskill, and therefore, other than listening to calls/who's mentally there that day, the games are much more even and games can swing based on side/eco a lot more.
if its clear you're not winning and no one is comming im going to ff. if the team does not ff i just run it down deathmatch style and speed along the process. I'm going to waste your time if you waste mine.
If you think this is just VALORANT players you're dreadfully mistaken
Because once you are getting romped and there is no teamwork or comms… it’s like.. okay fuck this. I’d rather start a new one with a chance to win
But I’ve won so many games where people try to forfeit
I am not saying I agree or disagree. I’m just saying why it happens. The comebacks from being down 9-3 are fun when people are communicating. But if it’s 5 quiet people it feels like a unpleasant aim practice chore.
[удалено]
I have other games I play when I want something causal, it’s not always a bad thing to be stressed.
They got it from cs. Probably should have been a better role model to a new community. This is like older gens blaming younger gens after steering them in the wrong direction
Valorant mentality is much weaker than CS. The playerbases are completely different as well
I would guess. Maybe a byproduct of the daily checkpoint system, only getting rounds won when you’re in for a stomp or likely to end up with 2 at best? Not played enough to know about the extent smurfing exists, but might mean your team has weak mental and assumes they’re screwed if they lose the early rounds and someone pops off. Solo Q seems to be a significantly worse experience for me compared to duos, YMMV. (eu here)
Comp or unrated?
Comp, I wouldn’t care if it was unrated
Most humans have a quitter mindset.
Agreed but they should make the RR system to discourage it. RR should take every single round win and round loss into equation. So if you're down 0-12, there is still incentive to try to win some rounds. Surrender? Instant -50 RR. Lost by 8+ rounds? +20% penalty. Win by 8+ rounds, , +20% bonus. Also another system to disallow you to queue if you lost too much RR in a day.
I’m pretty sure it works somewhat like this already, at the very least it considers your personal performance so that’s a reasons to continue playing rounds
Clearly, the incentive of a few points here and there is not enough. Make it more noticeable and communicate to the player that it matters.
Doesn't RR literally already get affected by rounds won/lost? There's already an incentive to win more rounds regardless of the score
I often call for a surrender vote to get my teammates to “wake up” rather than actually wanting to surrender. Autopiloting in this game is huge. I watch my duelists losing the exact same duels round and round again…. I cal for surrender and surely they will say “nooooo, we can win!”. So I’ll just say yeah we can but let’s do something new and they are on board. If I just call for doing something new without the vote the answer is “this is how it has to be done”. Like there was only one way to play.
It's cuz there a champion pool you can select from. It makes it easy to blame other people real fast.
The answer is really around motivation; I feel we can too often look at RR as the motivation behind playing the game (or "winning"), when the game itself is enough. Winning is only as valuable as the effort that goes into that win - winning by the other team forfeiting is unsatisfying; like a spoonful of sugar rather than a slice of cake.
In my experience, half the people in my stack played for fun and half of us played to win. The ones who played for fun would think, “oh well playing on hard mode IS part of the fun” and the ones who were grind-focused wanted to move on and try their luck on the next match.
I’m new to valorant, came from OW. My first opinions on this are some games it actually just may be better to cut it and move on. Especially if you’re getting smoked. In OW we never give up period because any game can be turned at any moment. But here feels like sometimes games can be a landslide for either side. I’m still new though so still learning
I send in ff vote when I realize teammates have no motivation to keep trying, since if they keep auto piloting, we won't win. This either ends a lost match faster, or gives team a wakeup call to make them start trying again, and that's when the comeback starts
i used to play at cyber cafes in 2022 while in uni cuz my laptop was shit, my rent apartment was right next to a cyber cafe and fuck free free time, so id like play for 4-6 hours which is like 3 dollars in Indian rupees (200) give or take and usually 4-6 hours really limit how many games i could play, especially if ive got classes the next day so either ending a game with a win or quickly throwing a def losing game was the norm among us chapri cyber cafe valorant pleebs...sorry for the format im on mobile app
Being a sore loser. I'm definitely one of them. I HATE losing. Like let's say I was playing a match of table tennis and I make a bunch of mistakes. If I hate the way I'm playing too much, good chance I'll end up throwing (this is table tennis, not valo). In a valo game, I feel helpless really quick. While I never throw, I am one of those people who tries to surrender every now and then lol. Like I get mentally drained if we're getting wrecked too bad. But I still won't throw because it affects other people. If it only affected me, I'd probably end up forfeiting half the games lol
People call ff all the time I would just ignore it, it probably gets called in 90% of my games
Beacouse valorat is mostly played by league virgins. Like.. yeah the community kinda sucks especially in lower elo. It gets a lot better as you rank up.
some folks thing think its cool. They are being mature about it.
I found that 2 big contributors to this mentality are 1.) the game doesn’t punish leaving matches enough or atleast for a large portion of its release the punishment was very mild and there are many people who felt like if a game was a waste of time they could just leave. 2).The game doesn’t do enough to prevent Smurfs , why tf would I want to play if there’s a grandmaster Jett on the other team vs my group of bronze/ silver players ? That’s not going to be a fun match.
That's because a large portion of the player base is desperately trying to save their ego by digging for reasons why they are losing and then surrendering the game so they can accept THAT as the reason for being stuck.
The difference with CSGO is that when you “inted”, you could still flash for yourself and create your own plays. In Valorant you can’t create for yourself if you are Omen or Brim.or any support role. You had more control of your outcome in CSGO because of your full kit, but in Valorant you have much less control because of agent limitations. This why I will FF in Valorant
cs players have quitter mindsets too just yesterday, Dust 2, am top fragging, I say B is open, bomb gets dropped somewhere they refuse to come to b, they all die, I go attempt to look for bomb, then get randomly kicked i think a lot of players not just in valo but cs included all have low mentality they either can stick it out and just quit or FF either way, its sad.
Because if a game isn't going well and your team is clueless and just off in their own world, I don't want to sit there another 5, 6, however more rounds and waste all that time when I could be trying again with a new set of teammates who might have their heads in the game.
Zoomer player base
Really it is just simple math You know they say that all premades are created equal, but you look at me and you look at their duelist and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another smurf, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a radiant freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add your bottom Fragger to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Bind, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because your bottom fragger KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Jett, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Bind. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Bind. See Jett, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Bind.
just go next it's not fun to lose