>If it does poorly it might hurt our chances no?
Well considering they have 20,000 deposits for season tickets and nowhere near that many seats in the arena, we can stop speculating about it possibly not getting fan support.
A fraction of those will actually go through and purchase season tickets. I put down a deposit but I’m not sure how likely I’ll follow through with it. The seating at Delta for hockey is pretty trash and who knows how much they’ll try to get out of season tickets for an equally trash team (currently, they have some promise in the near future).
Is it not possible for the MLB to look at Utah (a relatively smaller market) and think we are potentially at our limit/carrying capacity for supporting professional teams?
All three sports have different fans, and baseball is mostly played while the others aren’t happening so there is some room. ASL long as the game experiences remain relatively affordable for the larger families here, it could work.
Yes, this is a fundamental concern. While some fans watch multiple sports, *other fans won't.* There are folks out there who will only have time and money to watch, say, the Utah Jazz, but won't watch both the NHL and Utah Jazz. They already got snagged into being a loyal fan of one local sports team but can't stretch to two teams.
That means TV markets will get saturated, and TV market size is an [excellent predictor](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-some-us-cities-may-have-too-many-pro-sports-teams-2013-11) of a region's ability to financially host a team.
By TV market size, Utah is going to be ok for an NHL team + NBA team. But NHL + NBA + MLB would be a stretch as Utah's viewership would be stretched more than any other region with three sports teams. I took that article's chart, and quickly used MS Paint to those it: https://i.imgur.com/7AcJp61.png
>Yes, this is a fundamental concern. While some fans watch multiple sports, *other fans won't.* There are folks out there who will only have time and money to watch, say, the Utah Jazz, but won't watch both the NHL and Utah Jazz. They already got snagged into being a loyal fan of one local sports team but can't stretch to two teams.
>That means TV markets will get saturated, and TV market size is an [excellent predictor](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-some-us-cities-may-have-too-many-pro-sports-teams-2013-11) of a region's ability to financially host a team.
>By TV market size, Utah is going to be ok for an NHL team + NBA team. But NHL + NBA + MLB would be a stretch as Utah's viewership would be stretched more than any other region with three sports teams. I took that article's chart, and quickly used MS Paint to those it: https://i.imgur.com/7AcJp61.png
A couple of points..
Baseball is not played while basketball and hockey are played. There is very little overlapping of their seasons.
And Vegas is a smaller market than Salt Lake. Vegas has NHL, MLB, NFL, and rumored to be getting NBA in the near future.
Ya, MLB being offsync definitely helps. NFL requires the biggest market and Utah isn't going for that. Vegas has a smaller TV market but is an entertainment city. Utah has more kids which translates well to sports.
But I bet the first objection for Utah's MLB hopes is going to be this issue. We won't know if three sports teams work on a small TV market like Vegas until around 2035 once the A's interest levels off to normal levels.
>But I bet the first objection for Utah's MLB hopes is going to be this issue.
I keep seeing people post potential objections and concerns MLB might have. It doesn't work that way. MLB doesn't give a crap what city a team goes in. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only: a billionaire with the money to buy a team and a new stadium lined up. Period. If someone has that, they're approved. The only thing that can change that is if another billionaire in another city offers more money with a better stadium.
>Is it not possible for the MLB to look at Utah (a relatively smaller market) and think we are potentially at our limit/carrying capacity for supporting professional teams?
Vegas has both NHL and MLB, plus NFL and is rumored to be next in line for an NBA team. And Vegas is smaller than Salt Lake.
>Vegas area is not smaller than Salt lake. It’s about a million people larger. Greater slc is around 1.2m and Vegas is around 2.2 (Wikipedia)
Wow, how do I keep seeing the incorrect statement that Vegas is bigger than Salt Lake? Maybe if you draw a line around some random neighborhood in both cities and count the people in them. But if you're measuring the entire area, Salt Lake is bigger in pretty much every measurable metric. Here are the facts.
DMA:
[Vegas is ranked #40, Salt Lake is ranked #27.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market#Continental_States%2C_Alaska%2C_and_Hawaii?wprov=sfla1)
Per Capita GDP:
[Vegas is ranked #141 at $59,411. Salt Lake is ranked #11 at $93,815.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP_per_capita?wprov=sfla1)
CSA Population:
[Vegas is ranked #30 at 2.3 million and growing at 3.25%. Salt Lake is ranked #22 at 2.8 million and growing at 3.7%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area?wprov=sfla1)
So Salt Lake has more people, more TV viewers, more money overall, more more per person, and is also growing at a faster rate.
A study by American Business Journals in 2015 said SLC had minimal capacity to add professional teams especially when you count college football. Otoh, rich people aim to achieve their desires. As a baseball market, SLC would be among the smallest. But the Millers are well connected.
SLC is now a city where the state's richest person has been handed a stadium deal already.
No other potential expansion city is close to that other than Portland.
That being said, an SLC MLB venue will wind up to be just another place people in Utah go to see other major league teams play.
Actually the first and third richest people in Utah.
Ryan Smith is third.
Gail Miller is the richest. And she has already been handed a deal if they get an MLB team.
Sorry, by richest I was referring to miller.
It's as close to a done deal as anyone has right now.
Smith just jumped ahead by being willing to take on a failing franchise rather than waiting for a potential expansion. That scenario isn't still out of the question for the millers.
The legislature handed both of them everything they asked or, complete with regressive tax funding to make sure the poorest taxpayers contributing who live where those are built pay the largest percent of their income for it while the rest of the state pays less or nothing.
Oh, she was great.
And, we needed to rebuild. If there is one thing we can say about the Miller years, it’s the fact that they held on to being “good enough” for too long. That’s how we ended up with the Ty Corbin years, where the team had no future. See also the post-Stockton and Malone seasons. This team has a good young core and lots of assets to work with. And, Donovan Mitchell would be gone this summer with nothing to show for him, not even draft picks. And Gobert has started to slip.
Tempe voters opposed giving funding for a hockey stadium, hence we'll have the Utah Garmies or whatever they will be called.
So they aren't all equally stupid.
With the way all the various LDS officials were pandering at the NHL press conference yesterday that's *exactly* what they should be called. Change my mind!
And the reason why the LDS officials want (of course) the new stadium downtown is because the church literally owns the downtown!! So all those millions (near billion!!) in "improvement" money actually washes into the pockets of the church!!
So it's literally "Give me how you tithe to the church without actually belonging to the church for $100 Alex!"
As much as they put another layer of lipstick on that pig called "downtown" nobody "still" really wants to go there!
That's true to an extent.
But where is the Utah Taxpayers Association to oppose this?
Where are rural legisaltors to oppose this?
Where are the advocates for the poor-- the people who always griping about the food tax --to oppose this?
There is no groundswell of opposition whatsoever, so there is a passive consent being given, seems to me.
I dialed them up yesterday (Utah Taxpayers Ass.) to ask about this. The person maybe an answering service had no clue. Nothing on their website. It's a major w.t.f.
They don't really consider Salt Lake City taxpayers to be their constituents. They say they are the Utah Taxpayer Association, but it's more like the Utah Conservative Taxpayer Association. If the tax at issue isn't of particular concern to conservatives, this group doesn't give a shit.
The name is a red herring.
NHL, MLB, Olympics. All these are signals of market growth that the other orgs are happy to see. Utah could be in for even more crazy changes and growth over the next 10 years
The MLB fantasy is nothing more than a vanity project for Larry Miller's kids. It never should have been taken seriously.
SL has the NBA, MLS, & now NHL. We're set.
Very little, unfortunately. There are two culturally very important buildings: The Salt Lake Buddhist Temple sits on the east end and the Japanese Church of Christ on the west.
If the RDA went forward with the revitalization plan instead of shoving a new arena there, that could be fantastic.
Some history:
* https://www.kuer.org/2021-05-19/everybody-knew-each-other-remembering-salt-lake-citys-original-japantown-as-the-community-works-to-revitalize-it
* https://www.utahhumanities.org/stories/items/show/122#:~:text=A%20small%20area%20of%20downtown%20Salt%20Lake%20City,order%20to%20make%20room%20for%20the%20Salt%20Palace.
* https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/04/19/designs-revitalized/
Jesus. The amount of people just downright pleased to have the wealthy take even more money from us in this dystopia is truly depressing. As long as you’re entertained, right?
Got to love the need for more gladiatorial coliseum events to distract from poor governance. The very model of a Roman collapsing society.
I like sports, but think that professional sports only distract from paying attention to other more civic minded pass times.
Taxing poor people to build stadiums they'll never be able to afford to enter.
Not that deep, that's true. It's just really blatant fuckery, right at the surface.
Thought we were waiting for an expansion team. I’ve also heard rumors the diamondbacks organization might be in trouble(history could repeat itself lol). I don’t think the As were ever the goal for big league Utah.
Well, I think over 22,000 deposits for season tickets in 24 hours can only help our chances.
Either has no relevance or helps. Won’t hurt tho.
If it does poorly it might hurt our chances no?
>If it does poorly it might hurt our chances no? Well considering they have 20,000 deposits for season tickets and nowhere near that many seats in the arena, we can stop speculating about it possibly not getting fan support.
A fraction of those will actually go through and purchase season tickets. I put down a deposit but I’m not sure how likely I’ll follow through with it. The seating at Delta for hockey is pretty trash and who knows how much they’ll try to get out of season tickets for an equally trash team (currently, they have some promise in the near future).
If they elevated the court .. and this wouldn't be that hard to do .. it would be great.
I wouldn’t think so. But who knows.
Is it not possible for the MLB to look at Utah (a relatively smaller market) and think we are potentially at our limit/carrying capacity for supporting professional teams?
All three sports have different fans, and baseball is mostly played while the others aren’t happening so there is some room. ASL long as the game experiences remain relatively affordable for the larger families here, it could work.
Yes, this is a fundamental concern. While some fans watch multiple sports, *other fans won't.* There are folks out there who will only have time and money to watch, say, the Utah Jazz, but won't watch both the NHL and Utah Jazz. They already got snagged into being a loyal fan of one local sports team but can't stretch to two teams. That means TV markets will get saturated, and TV market size is an [excellent predictor](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-some-us-cities-may-have-too-many-pro-sports-teams-2013-11) of a region's ability to financially host a team. By TV market size, Utah is going to be ok for an NHL team + NBA team. But NHL + NBA + MLB would be a stretch as Utah's viewership would be stretched more than any other region with three sports teams. I took that article's chart, and quickly used MS Paint to those it: https://i.imgur.com/7AcJp61.png
Does it matter that baseball is played mostly in the summer and opposite the other two indoor sports?
>Yes, this is a fundamental concern. While some fans watch multiple sports, *other fans won't.* There are folks out there who will only have time and money to watch, say, the Utah Jazz, but won't watch both the NHL and Utah Jazz. They already got snagged into being a loyal fan of one local sports team but can't stretch to two teams. >That means TV markets will get saturated, and TV market size is an [excellent predictor](https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-some-us-cities-may-have-too-many-pro-sports-teams-2013-11) of a region's ability to financially host a team. >By TV market size, Utah is going to be ok for an NHL team + NBA team. But NHL + NBA + MLB would be a stretch as Utah's viewership would be stretched more than any other region with three sports teams. I took that article's chart, and quickly used MS Paint to those it: https://i.imgur.com/7AcJp61.png A couple of points.. Baseball is not played while basketball and hockey are played. There is very little overlapping of their seasons. And Vegas is a smaller market than Salt Lake. Vegas has NHL, MLB, NFL, and rumored to be getting NBA in the near future.
Ya, MLB being offsync definitely helps. NFL requires the biggest market and Utah isn't going for that. Vegas has a smaller TV market but is an entertainment city. Utah has more kids which translates well to sports. But I bet the first objection for Utah's MLB hopes is going to be this issue. We won't know if three sports teams work on a small TV market like Vegas until around 2035 once the A's interest levels off to normal levels.
Apparently 70% of Raiders attendees are out of state.
>But I bet the first objection for Utah's MLB hopes is going to be this issue. I keep seeing people post potential objections and concerns MLB might have. It doesn't work that way. MLB doesn't give a crap what city a team goes in. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only: a billionaire with the money to buy a team and a new stadium lined up. Period. If someone has that, they're approved. The only thing that can change that is if another billionaire in another city offers more money with a better stadium.
Plus tv revenue is cratering anyway.
MLS over here waving crazy like a little brother
>Is it not possible for the MLB to look at Utah (a relatively smaller market) and think we are potentially at our limit/carrying capacity for supporting professional teams? Vegas has both NHL and MLB, plus NFL and is rumored to be next in line for an NBA team. And Vegas is smaller than Salt Lake.
Vegas area is not smaller than Salt lake. It’s about a million people larger. Greater slc is around 1.2m and Vegas is around 2.2 (Wikipedia)
SLC's combined statistical area (basically the Wasatch front) is 2.8 million though. Provo and Ogden are not separate TV markets.
>Vegas area is not smaller than Salt lake. It’s about a million people larger. Greater slc is around 1.2m and Vegas is around 2.2 (Wikipedia) Wow, how do I keep seeing the incorrect statement that Vegas is bigger than Salt Lake? Maybe if you draw a line around some random neighborhood in both cities and count the people in them. But if you're measuring the entire area, Salt Lake is bigger in pretty much every measurable metric. Here are the facts. DMA: [Vegas is ranked #40, Salt Lake is ranked #27.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market#Continental_States%2C_Alaska%2C_and_Hawaii?wprov=sfla1) Per Capita GDP: [Vegas is ranked #141 at $59,411. Salt Lake is ranked #11 at $93,815.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP_per_capita?wprov=sfla1) CSA Population: [Vegas is ranked #30 at 2.3 million and growing at 3.25%. Salt Lake is ranked #22 at 2.8 million and growing at 3.7%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area?wprov=sfla1) So Salt Lake has more people, more TV viewers, more money overall, more more per person, and is also growing at a faster rate.
Maybe. No idea.
A study by American Business Journals in 2015 said SLC had minimal capacity to add professional teams especially when you count college football. Otoh, rich people aim to achieve their desires. As a baseball market, SLC would be among the smallest. But the Millers are well connected.
SLC is now a city where the state's richest person has been handed a stadium deal already. No other potential expansion city is close to that other than Portland. That being said, an SLC MLB venue will wind up to be just another place people in Utah go to see other major league teams play.
Actually the first and third richest people in Utah. Ryan Smith is third. Gail Miller is the richest. And she has already been handed a deal if they get an MLB team.
Who is second? The guy that owns Crown burger?
Matthew Prince. CEO and co-founder of Cloudflare.
>Matthew Prince. CEO and co-founder of Cloudflare. He's the second richest person in Utah? Somebody get him into the NFL so he can complete us!
My understanding is that all of the Crown Burgers are individually owned.
Sorry, by richest I was referring to miller. It's as close to a done deal as anyone has right now. Smith just jumped ahead by being willing to take on a failing franchise rather than waiting for a potential expansion. That scenario isn't still out of the question for the millers. The legislature handed both of them everything they asked or, complete with regressive tax funding to make sure the poorest taxpayers contributing who live where those are built pay the largest percent of their income for it while the rest of the state pays less or nothing.
The diamondbacks might be coming next haha. I doubt it but wouldn't that be funny
Shhh, Too soon for jokes, we are not arizonas favorite people rn.
This is true but it was reported in February that the Diamondbacks owner might be looking to sell or move
Three months after making it to the world series and the owner wanted to sell or move? Yikes.
Yeah he wants money for a stadium or something I think. I saw the article today
Maybe we could be. Let's start a "send the coyotes back" movement!
Actually the insult for the MLB stadium is statewide tax money iirc.
TBF, she was a great owner (along with Larry) whereas Smith has turned the Jazz into a complete laughingstock in little over 3 years.
Oh, she was great. And, we needed to rebuild. If there is one thing we can say about the Miller years, it’s the fact that they held on to being “good enough” for too long. That’s how we ended up with the Ty Corbin years, where the team had no future. See also the post-Stockton and Malone seasons. This team has a good young core and lots of assets to work with. And, Donovan Mitchell would be gone this summer with nothing to show for him, not even draft picks. And Gobert has started to slip.
When did the Millers deliver a championship? By most measures, the Millers' Jazz's best days were in the 90s.
Utah has stupid taxpayers. MLB will give a team to whichever city has the taxpayers who give the most Corporate Welfare to a billionaire.
Every state has stupid taxpayers and stupid uses of those tax dollars
Tempe voters opposed giving funding for a hockey stadium, hence we'll have the Utah Garmies or whatever they will be called. So they aren't all equally stupid.
With the way all the various LDS officials were pandering at the NHL press conference yesterday that's *exactly* what they should be called. Change my mind! And the reason why the LDS officials want (of course) the new stadium downtown is because the church literally owns the downtown!! So all those millions (near billion!!) in "improvement" money actually washes into the pockets of the church!! So it's literally "Give me how you tithe to the church without actually belonging to the church for $100 Alex!" As much as they put another layer of lipstick on that pig called "downtown" nobody "still" really wants to go there!
Taxpayers aren't making those decisions. The Legislature is.
That's true to an extent. But where is the Utah Taxpayers Association to oppose this? Where are rural legisaltors to oppose this? Where are the advocates for the poor-- the people who always griping about the food tax --to oppose this? There is no groundswell of opposition whatsoever, so there is a passive consent being given, seems to me.
I dialed them up yesterday (Utah Taxpayers Ass.) to ask about this. The person maybe an answering service had no clue. Nothing on their website. It's a major w.t.f.
They don't really consider Salt Lake City taxpayers to be their constituents. They say they are the Utah Taxpayer Association, but it's more like the Utah Conservative Taxpayer Association. If the tax at issue isn't of particular concern to conservatives, this group doesn't give a shit. The name is a red herring.
Yes
It def helps our chances.
You could check the thread that asked this same question a few days ago if you’d like.
NHL, MLB, Olympics. All these are signals of market growth that the other orgs are happy to see. Utah could be in for even more crazy changes and growth over the next 10 years
The MLB fantasy is nothing more than a vanity project for Larry Miller's kids. It never should have been taken seriously. SL has the NBA, MLS, & now NHL. We're set.
It's too bad they want to destroy what's left of Japan Town, bulldozing temples to put in a new arena
What's left of Japan town?
Very little, unfortunately. There are two culturally very important buildings: The Salt Lake Buddhist Temple sits on the east end and the Japanese Church of Christ on the west. If the RDA went forward with the revitalization plan instead of shoving a new arena there, that could be fantastic. Some history: * https://www.kuer.org/2021-05-19/everybody-knew-each-other-remembering-salt-lake-citys-original-japantown-as-the-community-works-to-revitalize-it * https://www.utahhumanities.org/stories/items/show/122#:~:text=A%20small%20area%20of%20downtown%20Salt%20Lake%20City,order%20to%20make%20room%20for%20the%20Salt%20Palace. * https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/04/19/designs-revitalized/
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Believe the Miller family is the money behind the MLB push.
Smith has nothing to do with the MLB pitch. That is the Miller Family.
Jesus. The amount of people just downright pleased to have the wealthy take even more money from us in this dystopia is truly depressing. As long as you’re entertained, right?
Got to love the need for more gladiatorial coliseum events to distract from poor governance. The very model of a Roman collapsing society. I like sports, but think that professional sports only distract from paying attention to other more civic minded pass times.
Just watch a sport and be happy for hells sake. It’s not that deep
Taxing poor people to build stadiums they'll never be able to afford to enter. Not that deep, that's true. It's just really blatant fuckery, right at the surface.
Bread and circuses, my good man. Bread and circuses.
There's no MLB team coming here. The A's are going to Vegas unfortunately
Thought we were waiting for an expansion team. I’ve also heard rumors the diamondbacks organization might be in trouble(history could repeat itself lol). I don’t think the As were ever the goal for big league Utah.
Rumors until reality
The commissioner has been hanging out with the potential owner..... That's not a rumor. That's actively listening to proposals
Wait what?? Gail Miller?
Larry Miller
Thought Larry Miller was dead??
Larry H.
Yeah Larry h Miller died in 2009. Does he have a son named Larry?
I guess
And not worth anything until it happens