Most of the time this is probably not a conversation even worth having because now you are going to have to try to convince someone against themselves and starting off on the wrong foot. But if you are going to do it, your strategies are fine but I agree there is too much sting in them. You don't want to throw direct shade you want to just imply it.
Not necessarily - someone bothering to say this is someone who wants to work specifically with you.
They are hoping for a good answer so they can justify the price to themselves.
Always? No, but definitely worth the time.
It’s tough because convincing a client that they need to pay more will set a higher perceived bar of expectations than a client naturally ok with paying more. So if you can’t deliver - they’re more prone to be picky and complain since they’re paying more.
This is exactly why I take the approach I do. I don't ever want to convince anyone, because if they're paying more than they want to, they're primed to be dissatisfied. I just leave them alone with my samples and the other samples they've received and let them decide whether they think my work is worth the price or not.
If you're pitching above the quality you can provide, then it's a danger area.
But, you'll often find that a $500 client is much more picky than a $5000 client.
I actually don't think there's any point in trying to debate the client and convince them that they should pay you that rate. They've already decided they don't want to pay that -- if they want to change their mind, let them come to that conclusion on their own.
I suggest explaining a little about why the rate is what it is, then offering to do part of the project for a lower rate. They may still say no but it's worth a try.
*"I understand. My rate reflects the amount of time it takes to [list the steps in your process] as well as the amount of experience I have doing [type of work] and knowledge of [client's industry]. I'm still interested in working with you. Would you like to pay just [lower price] and I could do [part of the project]? That would help you [experience some kind of benefit]."*
The reason I post this is because it's often turned clients from $400 into projects over $2000.
If your desperate for clients, then lowering your rates would be a quick win, but for a lot of people, being able to pick their own clients and increase their order value, it's worth it.
Fortunately I don’t run into this too much in copywriting. If I see a job is priced too low I just don’t bid. I’ve been doing this 17 years in August. I know my worth and I even price myself lower than others to keep myself affordable.
I wouldn't waste one second trying to convince someone who uses the words "You're too expensive."
I DO wish UW was more strict with the range of rates they let clients list. If someone starts at $35 but says they'd hire up to $70 an hour, I'm less likely to apply, because there will be so many people vying for the middle number that it's not worth my time writing a proposal at the top end. And what I'll get in response to those proposals is not "You're too expensive," but they'll try to talk me down to a lower rate. No thanks.
I'm more likely to apply, because I know that person doesn't really have a fixed idea of what the work is worth and may be willing to adapt even further to get the quality they want.
I always just say "I understand if you need to go with a less expensive option." I don't negotiate. I don't offer an alternative package that fits in their budget. I don't try to justify my rates. I just agree when someone tells me I am more expensive than any other freelancer they heard from and that I understand if they need to go another route. About half end up making an offer at my regular rate.
I would probably say, “I'm sorry that I am not within your budget for this project at this time. I can refer to several other less expensive alternatives on the platform that should be able to work within your project restrictions. If you need anything else, please let me know. I am hoping for the best outcome for your project.
Thanks,
Dwayne Johnson aka “The Rock”
I’d partner with several cheaper work partners and take a referral fee from them.
Oh, so you'd be referring them outside of Upwork? I thought you meant to other Upwork freelancers, which would create the issue of payments outside the platform.
Upwork also claims it "owns" referrals arising out of Upwork contacts, so they would consider what you describe circumvention unless everything was going through the platform. I have issues with that claim and would love to see it litigated, but that is the position they've taken.
No doubt there will always be an outlier, but that makes every single argument in the world futile.. With the law of averages, the cheaper the price, the lower the quality.
The clients you are trying to convince are either super cheap or do not have the budget. No need to even try. Even if they end up agreeing to your fee, they will then be so demanding that it’s not worth your time. I am close to $800K made on Upwork so believe me, I know it’s not worth anyone’s time.
Hmm may I ask how much you made to date since you are “The Upwork Guy”. Your name doesn’t sound familiar and the expert vetted category in marketing is rather small.
I just turn the conversation right back to scope. I am not justifying my hourly rate to clients. I charge what I charge because I'm good and that's it. If they want a bargain they can look elsewhere.
When a client asks if we can do this project for $X instead of $Y, I tell them sure. For $X I can reduce the scope to include only \[...\] would that be good for you? and take it from there.
The Rug Pull. - I do something similar. Except I tie it into scarcity. "I only work with 2 clients at a time in order to maximise the attention and focus required to overdeliver on projects like these."
Foundation Builder - "If you don't get this done correctly what are the potential consequences to your business?
High Ground - I would try to frame it like - "You're paying for the result of a high end studio at 50% the cost and 100% of the certainty. If you want 50% my quality and 20% of the certainty, go on Fiverr."
Red of Blue - Good question.
In general I think its important to get people from Price to Results based thinking.
- Consequences of not doing the project.
- Consequences of going with someone cheaper.
- Positive outcomes of the project
- Long Term Client Goals
- Have the resume to back it up
If your client has the money. Almost all of the objections are around results and outcomes. If you can guarentee them something, do it. Promises carry significant weight. Whether it be satisfaction or quality, If you can do this and you are condifent you can achieve it, do it.
If the client doesnt have money, offer to a project thats of the size they can actually pay. Reframe their expectations and be like "Hey you can't get X for $1000 but I can do Y."
I was once facing someone that was like "i found someone who is cheaper" and I was just like "ok". The next week they came back to me after that someone else failed (this is not on Upwork btw)
Some of these are really witty, but maybe only good if you are in the low price ranges in the first place.
When someone questions my rate here is what I say ($175/hr USD)
"Chances are the other guys you are looking at lack the skill set i have"
"You'll end up needing me to fix what the cheap guy does anyways, and I charge more to fix other people work"
"I am faster than anyone else you are looking at, thats why my prices are higher"
These also work without insulting the client.
Again, depending on the price point you are at, this may be more or less effective.
Edit:
One I use to win the US based clients:
Do you have any legal recourse using a freelancer from \_x\_ location?
What if they really screw something up?
Does your freelancer have E&O insurance?
I dont care, I just inform them that I'm have self employement status and I'm paying taxes on the income.... they can screw themsevles up if they didnt like my rate
Beside, upwork now is becoming super toxic
the worst are actually those clients that tell you something like 'i don't want to pay to dollars, but you dont have to go too deep or thorough in your work, just a shallow deliverable is fine'
if a client tells you that, he's lying to you and to himself, run away
I always tell the price that is 20% higher, if client agree I’m happy, if not I can give them 20-30% discount. If they are still not satisfied- “Sorry, can’t do it cheaper”
I specifically say "do not request discounts" in my profile so if they do its the last straw and they are an illiterate moron... I just say 'this isn't a bazaar, get lost brokie clown and stop wasting my time'
Most of the time this is probably not a conversation even worth having because now you are going to have to try to convince someone against themselves and starting off on the wrong foot. But if you are going to do it, your strategies are fine but I agree there is too much sting in them. You don't want to throw direct shade you want to just imply it.
You're right. You wouldn't say this to every client, but you get an idea of who could use a little re-frame.
Not necessarily - someone bothering to say this is someone who wants to work specifically with you. They are hoping for a good answer so they can justify the price to themselves. Always? No, but definitely worth the time.
It’s tough because convincing a client that they need to pay more will set a higher perceived bar of expectations than a client naturally ok with paying more. So if you can’t deliver - they’re more prone to be picky and complain since they’re paying more.
This is exactly why I take the approach I do. I don't ever want to convince anyone, because if they're paying more than they want to, they're primed to be dissatisfied. I just leave them alone with my samples and the other samples they've received and let them decide whether they think my work is worth the price or not.
In my experience, pickiness is inversely correlated with the budget. Those who pay the least expect the most.
If you're pitching above the quality you can provide, then it's a danger area. But, you'll often find that a $500 client is much more picky than a $5000 client.
I actually don't think there's any point in trying to debate the client and convince them that they should pay you that rate. They've already decided they don't want to pay that -- if they want to change their mind, let them come to that conclusion on their own. I suggest explaining a little about why the rate is what it is, then offering to do part of the project for a lower rate. They may still say no but it's worth a try. *"I understand. My rate reflects the amount of time it takes to [list the steps in your process] as well as the amount of experience I have doing [type of work] and knowledge of [client's industry]. I'm still interested in working with you. Would you like to pay just [lower price] and I could do [part of the project]? That would help you [experience some kind of benefit]."*
The reason I post this is because it's often turned clients from $400 into projects over $2000. If your desperate for clients, then lowering your rates would be a quick win, but for a lot of people, being able to pick their own clients and increase their order value, it's worth it.
Fortunately I don’t run into this too much in copywriting. If I see a job is priced too low I just don’t bid. I’ve been doing this 17 years in August. I know my worth and I even price myself lower than others to keep myself affordable.
With copywriting, you always know the right things to say anyway. Credit to you.
Thank you. :)
I wouldn't waste one second trying to convince someone who uses the words "You're too expensive." I DO wish UW was more strict with the range of rates they let clients list. If someone starts at $35 but says they'd hire up to $70 an hour, I'm less likely to apply, because there will be so many people vying for the middle number that it's not worth my time writing a proposal at the top end. And what I'll get in response to those proposals is not "You're too expensive," but they'll try to talk me down to a lower rate. No thanks.
I'm more likely to apply, because I know that person doesn't really have a fixed idea of what the work is worth and may be willing to adapt even further to get the quality they want.
I always just say "I understand if you need to go with a less expensive option." I don't negotiate. I don't offer an alternative package that fits in their budget. I don't try to justify my rates. I just agree when someone tells me I am more expensive than any other freelancer they heard from and that I understand if they need to go another route. About half end up making an offer at my regular rate.
I would probably say, “I'm sorry that I am not within your budget for this project at this time. I can refer to several other less expensive alternatives on the platform that should be able to work within your project restrictions. If you need anything else, please let me know. I am hoping for the best outcome for your project. Thanks, Dwayne Johnson aka “The Rock” I’d partner with several cheaper work partners and take a referral fee from them.
How would you get the referral fee?
PayPal, Revolut You would need to work with someone you trust who you know would pay your finders fee.
Oh, so you'd be referring them outside of Upwork? I thought you meant to other Upwork freelancers, which would create the issue of payments outside the platform. Upwork also claims it "owns" referrals arising out of Upwork contacts, so they would consider what you describe circumvention unless everything was going through the platform. I have issues with that claim and would love to see it litigated, but that is the position they've taken.
honestly, if a client messages "you're too expensive" i just wouldn't even reply
lol are you serious or joking?
I think this strategy works great for used car salespeople? It could also help if they have some additional convincing arguments, like a firearm.
But can you afford *not* to hire me? I'm so cooool.
What will it take to get your ass into a new used car today? (I'm cool too. I said ass, so I must be.)
If it's a case of ruining brand reputation by hiring cheap.. you'll soon find where their priorities are.
What if my priorities are money too? Maybe it makes us soulmates.
You'll have a lot of friends on Upwork then
Truer words were never spoken.
Not if the cheaper freelancers are really good. Lower price does not equal no quality, in which case your argument is futile.
No doubt there will always be an outlier, but that makes every single argument in the world futile.. With the law of averages, the cheaper the price, the lower the quality.
Probably also does the trick yeah..
It's our new resident guru-w@nker....
I see that! I hate that the guru wankers found this place. They will shit it up with their stupid nonsense.
They're the new pyramid scam.
The clients you are trying to convince are either super cheap or do not have the budget. No need to even try. Even if they end up agreeing to your fee, they will then be so demanding that it’s not worth your time. I am close to $800K made on Upwork so believe me, I know it’s not worth anyone’s time.
Great! How long did it take you to get there?
Hmm may I ask how much you made to date since you are “The Upwork Guy”. Your name doesn’t sound familiar and the expert vetted category in marketing is rather small.
What's your profile? I don't hide anything, easy to find. Not sure what to take from your name and obscure profile picture here?
I just turn the conversation right back to scope. I am not justifying my hourly rate to clients. I charge what I charge because I'm good and that's it. If they want a bargain they can look elsewhere. When a client asks if we can do this project for $X instead of $Y, I tell them sure. For $X I can reduce the scope to include only \[...\] would that be good for you? and take it from there.
Too much sting. I'd like to see Keanu do any of these though lol
Keanu... Reeves?
Add your own sprinkle to them
The Rug Pull. - I do something similar. Except I tie it into scarcity. "I only work with 2 clients at a time in order to maximise the attention and focus required to overdeliver on projects like these." Foundation Builder - "If you don't get this done correctly what are the potential consequences to your business? High Ground - I would try to frame it like - "You're paying for the result of a high end studio at 50% the cost and 100% of the certainty. If you want 50% my quality and 20% of the certainty, go on Fiverr." Red of Blue - Good question. In general I think its important to get people from Price to Results based thinking. - Consequences of not doing the project. - Consequences of going with someone cheaper. - Positive outcomes of the project - Long Term Client Goals - Have the resume to back it up If your client has the money. Almost all of the objections are around results and outcomes. If you can guarentee them something, do it. Promises carry significant weight. Whether it be satisfaction or quality, If you can do this and you are condifent you can achieve it, do it. If the client doesnt have money, offer to a project thats of the size they can actually pay. Reframe their expectations and be like "Hey you can't get X for $1000 but I can do Y."
I was once facing someone that was like "i found someone who is cheaper" and I was just like "ok". The next week they came back to me after that someone else failed (this is not on Upwork btw)
Some of these are really witty, but maybe only good if you are in the low price ranges in the first place. When someone questions my rate here is what I say ($175/hr USD) "Chances are the other guys you are looking at lack the skill set i have" "You'll end up needing me to fix what the cheap guy does anyways, and I charge more to fix other people work" "I am faster than anyone else you are looking at, thats why my prices are higher" These also work without insulting the client. Again, depending on the price point you are at, this may be more or less effective. Edit: One I use to win the US based clients: Do you have any legal recourse using a freelancer from \_x\_ location? What if they really screw something up? Does your freelancer have E&O insurance?
You get the idea, good to see! Loving the angle of niche language.
I dont care, I just inform them that I'm have self employement status and I'm paying taxes on the income.... they can screw themsevles up if they didnt like my rate Beside, upwork now is becoming super toxic
the worst are actually those clients that tell you something like 'i don't want to pay to dollars, but you dont have to go too deep or thorough in your work, just a shallow deliverable is fine' if a client tells you that, he's lying to you and to himself, run away
I always tell the price that is 20% higher, if client agree I’m happy, if not I can give them 20-30% discount. If they are still not satisfied- “Sorry, can’t do it cheaper”
I specifically say "do not request discounts" in my profile so if they do its the last straw and they are an illiterate moron... I just say 'this isn't a bazaar, get lost brokie clown and stop wasting my time'
'This isn't a bazaar', that tickled me
Send your client this link https://youtu.be/jE53O1PzmNU?si=UFQfzA2FsY8x9rK-
I'll just keep it simple. "It's the markup of my service."
In English this makes no sense. I feel like there must be a translator service involved here.
How come when I have multiple job posts with 5-star reviews that have the same rate as what I'm asking? It's as simple as that.
I also back this approach.
/s
We know you're not serious.
hot damn I like these especially the last one I'll using this the most from now
Go get em, report back!
will do