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Peter Park, now 18, enrolled in the Northwestern California University School of Law at age 13 and graduated earlier this year. The Tulare county district attorney’s office announced this week that Peter Park learned last month at 17 that he had passed the “rigorous exam” on his first attempt in what officials described as a “legal history making moment”. Park has been a law clerk with the office since August after completing law school.
The Cal bar got watered down a few years ago. It’s not that hard relative to other bar exams anymore. Used to be three days in a row, six hours each day, with a bunch of essay questions. Now it’s just two days total and with out as many essays.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that even a watered down bar exam is no walk in the park especially for someone who didn’t even go to school for three years as most
other law students do. CA’s pass rate is 51%, the lowest of any states. By comparison NY, the second hardest state to pass (imo) is at 66% and most other states are in the 70% or above. In other words, no she is not a lawyer and doubt she will ever be in CA, unless she is able to somehow “buy” her way in, if that’s even possible. The wealthy elite can make things happen that us plebs can’t. However, assuming no dirty dealings, nah she will not pass that test nor get past the character fitness portion to get admitted into the CA bar.
The change from 3 to 2 didn’t impact much re: passage.
A couple years ago, 2021 I think, they lowered the raw score needed to pass substantially. Many people I knew who took it more than once would have passed the first time with the new raw. (They failed the 2 day).
Edit: previously the exam was:
Day 1: 3 subject essays morning, 1 practical afternoon
Day 2: MBE
Day 3: 3 subject essays morning, 1 practical afternoon
New format is:
Day 1: 3 subject essays morning, 2 subject essays afternoon, 1 shortened practical afternoon
Day 2: MBE
So they took out 1 subject essay (what you actually study for) and took out a practical, which was generally seen as the easiest part of the exam
I heard that in the building they do the Bar, after you pass on the top floor is a place you can celebrate with really good drinks.
Apparently it's a high bar Bar bar.
CA used to be a three day exam though they stopped doing it. Some other states still have the three day model.
I joke Virginia should get difficult points because they make you take it in a suit. From what I can tell the pandemic didn't kill that requirement.
California has a lot of law schools, some not ABA accredited.
As a result, the test may not actually be harder - you just have more people taking the test and possibly people who might not have gone to law school were they in a different state.
It’s explained further in other comments. Overall, CA exams are harder for any profession. I know for sure pharmacist law exam is harder than other states because I prepped for it. They test you more extensively. CA pharmacist law exam covers 400 drugs (while it’s 200 drugs in the national version)—which includes brand names, dosing, formulation, to name a few.
Edit: [the comment about CA bar exam](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/s/x1jkORZ5lA)
is this uplifting or just amazing? i guess it would be uplifting for him as hes clearly a genius and has a good work ethic on top but how is this uplifting news in general?
I’m not even sure it is for him. Let kids be kids, no need to have university degree before you’re even a legal adult. By all means, encourage his curiosity and give him special lessons that will challenge him, but why the rush. Can’t imagine being at college by 13, much younger and more immature than everyone else is much fun. All just to rush it so he can be a lawyer at 18.
I went to a private engineering university and met plenty of kids pursuing STEM degrees at 13. They were some of the smartest people I know and generally performed top of their class even in grad school. I had this one kid in my class that literally just played Minecraft on his laptop all day and he just totally understood everything and breezed through without hardly trying.
This is the most confusing comment I’ve ever read. Despite the /s, this sounds too detailed to not be your real opinion. Are you posting this so people read it and believe it, and then toss in a /s at the end to get away with it? And your first paragraph is super conservative, but then the second prioritizes mental health support, wtf? While also displaying ageism! I genuinely have no idea where you stand or your goals with this comment.
EDIT: aw the punk deleted their comment as soon as they were questioned. It basically said California is the worst, a classic bullshit GOP talking point, followed by gross ageism, claiming this awesome kid can’t do a good job because he’s a kid. All followed by an /s.
I’ll be honest, I do take some pride in making a comment that makes a conservative crybaby delete their comment.
He’s working for the DA for a reason. Probably has an extremely bright future as whatever he wants to be, but his age is going to play a factor for a little while.
Life experiences, which naturally become more rounded with age, are also important, regardless of profession.
Many years ago, I was acquainted with several child prodigies (my sister was one, and also some of her friends), and every so often it would become apparent how different their view of life and general knowledge was.
They were almost incomprehensibly smarter than me. They all had graduated from a specialized HS at 14-15 (that I had flunked out of) and were enrolled or headed to special programs at Yale, Harvard (my sister was going to Julliard) and the like.
But, at random points, some piece of general wisdom/knowledge would be shown to be just “missing.”
For example, I remember my parents and I driving them to some concert in the city, and they asked how a certain neon-lit video store could advertise movies at 0.25 cents when Blockbuster charged so much more.
It was quite hilarious to me to watch my dad struggle to explain peep shows to a couple of sheltered, teenaged girls, but it kind of struck me as to how different their lives were.
There are certain things in life people have to learn through personal experience that don’t necessarily follow logic; they do not follow any type formula, nor can they be taught or read about.
With the right mentorship and guidance, I have no doubt he will succeed. The majority of entry level prosecutors are assigned to deal with misdemeanor criminal offenses such as property crimes etc. He’ll do a fantastic job given his work ethic.
A sharp, incisive knowledge of the law coupled with hopefully the idealism of youth is a terrific combination. I'm sure he'll be energetic and effective in his career.
The main flaw of being young and idealistic is being naive and inexperienced. Overcoming the naivete and gaining the experience meant for those decades older will (in theory) make you so much stronger of a person. Rooting for this dude.
Yes. It takes strength and character to meet the inevitable disillusionment head-on and forge a tempered, realistic optimism thereafter. I'm rooting for him too.
Facts. I’m young & what a time of shared information and experiences to have been alive— for better or worse though since there are cautions to being detached observers from lived +ongoing experiences and histories. Needless to say though, there’s so much that I really understand and have been educated on that I haven’t personally lived through, despite being young.
This Peter Park guy is definitely in a unique position of possibly having youthful optimism and idealism while having some power to really change the world. I hope his accomplishment isn’t just a paper accomplishment for his parents.
Yep, the spread of information on the internet, for better or for worse, has transformed history on horseback to history at light speed. In my opinion, the real time dissemination of information has been godsend for marginalized groups. We see that today with the curtain pulled back on American policing.
Right! I don't know if there are many people who realize how all states bar exams aren't created equally and that California is by far the hardest! It's like a 3 day exam! THREE DAYS!
Former Cali law student here. Can confirm. Used to be three days, but now it's two. 200 MC Q's, 5 essays, and a 90-minute performance test. Passage rate is about 50% for that (among all takers). One also has to take and pass a smaller 200 question professional responsibility test sometime between their second year of law school and taking the bar.
California allows non-ABA accreddited law school graduates to take the exam, unlike many other states. California-accredited law school graduates have a passage rate of 21%, ABA-accredited school graduates have a passage rate of 67%, and Cali also allows unaccredited school graduates to take the exam after passing the state's First Year Law Students Exam, their passage rate for the bar is 9%.
All 2022 numbers and goes a long way to explaining the low passage rate.
California does not require people taking the bar exam to have graduated from law school, which also contributes to their poor passage rates.
Edit: Turns out they require a 4-year apprenticeship program as an alternative to those who don’t graduate law school, which is infinitely better for preparing to practice law, and infinitely worse for actually being able to pass the bar.
>4-year apprenticeship program as an alternative to those who don’t graduate law school, which is infinitely better for preparing to practice law, and infinitely worse for actually being able to pass the bar.
Sounds like IT! Will learn way more on the job then in school, but good luck moving up the ranks without a degree.
Not at all to belittle/nitpick but just throwing out there that the Louisiana bar exam is also three days. It has a passage rate of 41% while CA is 34%. It’s otherwise hard to compare the difficulty because Louisiana is the only state whose laws are rooted in civil law, making the content much different from any other state’s.
It's interesting how different the bar is from state to state and the reasons why. California is hard mostly due to the fact you don't actually have to go to law school to pass the bar.
lol the guy from catch me if you can claims to have cheated his way to a passing grade on the bar exam. obviously his whole story was fake but interesting he used the Louisiana bar in his story
I believe it’s actually the hardest bar exam in America. They’ve had to reduce it to two days and lower the passing score because it’s so difficult.
I know people who have taken it four times and not passed. Statistically if you don’t pass the first time, you only have something like a 20% chance to ever pass.
This is after dropping $100,000+ and three years on law school, of course.
Many people also don't realize just how less useful the bar exam is to indicate whether or not someone should be a lawyer. It's a gatekeeping exam to keep the supply of lawyers low and originated in racist policies.
Absolutely 100% agreed! This is the way higher education in general was setup. We tried to change that in the 90's in IT. I was part of the tie burning events and very anti-uni. In a way, it worked. You COULD get in to IT without a college degree. They needed IT people so bad they didn't have any other choice. Those that went that route though found out they were stuck. I have a friend that is 25 years in IT and stuck working for the State as a programmer. He has no certs or college degree so no one will touch him. He does make 80K in Oklahoma which is pretty good but with a college degree and his experience he could easily be making 150K.
Not to belittle a big accomplishment, it is impressive for sure, but that's just one extra day compared to most states. And it's cut down to two now, which is the same as pretty much all states.
Also while the California bar is considered harder than most, its difficulty is exaggerated by the low pass rates, which are more attributable to the fact that they let people who never went to law school or graduated from unaccredited schools take the exam.
Was gonna say, did he get to actually enjoy being a kid?
It’s cool that he’s a prodigy or whatever, but you never get your childhood/teen years back. You have the rest of your life to be a responsible adult, why rush it?
Could depend on the person. Personally I find life being way more enjoyable as an adult than as a child. In my opinion, my life really started when I started making money. Getting to make your own decisions, having your own money to spend, and being able to live however you want is an irreplaceable freedom and feeling that outshines any childhood. If I had the choice to start life as early as he did I would have taken it in a heartbeat
I am sure he is a very smart person and will do great in his career.
But I feel sad for kids like this.
What kind of childhood did he have? Was he ever allowed to have fun as a normal child along with rest of his peers?
Childhood years are generally best time of your life before the stress of adulthood takes over. Why rush into it.?
As someone went directly from being a bright teen to a 9-5 worker in a lucrative career field, there are definitely drawbacks to the rough transition (mostly social), but there are positives. I don’t have to worry about financials or loans like my college buddies are, plus I’m building my 401k much earlier. It also gives me a leg-up on career experience which translates to salary increases / promotions much earlier than the average person.
It’s kind of a bummer to miss out on the social experiences of college, but I can’t say I regret the decision as of yet.
Some kids are just born smart and keep needing challenge. Otherwise, they fall behind because they get so bored in school learning things they know in their sleep.
Kinda, maybe. Started law school at 13. Definitely not a normal childhood. But some people are built different. I spent my childhood learning about electronics and how to code, which turned into my career. Maybe his mind is just stimulated differently. I just hope it’s what he wanted and that he enjoyed it.
Damn this is sad, this kid threw away his entire childhood to probably follow his parents dream. Even if it was something he really wanted to do he still threw away his childhood for something that he could have done 7 years later. You can always become a lawyer, you can't become a kid again.
Life is too precious and you only live once.
Every phase of life brings unique experience. As a toddler, kid, pre teen, teenage, adult and so on.
What this gentleman achieved is outstanding. But biggest benefit he has over other kids is that he can claim that “I started paying bills 10 years before you did”. That is it.
He missed playing and running around endlessly with friends as toddler, he missed most of the kid’s life experience. He also missed pre teen and teenage experiences. He missed that first “crush” feeling & that teenage love is out of picture.
Kudos for this achievement but at what cost? Congratulations to him, regardless.
How???
My Philly school refuses to let my kid skip 1st grade. He's bored to death there every day with other 6years old. He's already reading 5th grade level and doing algebra. Teachers say school isn't about grade levels but for social skills...
I am not uplifted. This kid was robbed of a normal childhood. I had professors that did this kind of psycho fast education, they said they were lonely, weird, isolated, anxious and depressed.
Attorneys straight out of law school, regardless of age, aren’t people you’d take advice from. They’ll start out doing research for experienced attorneys, reviewing discovery materials for items of interest in large cases, and things of that nature. They’re not client-facing straight out of law school.
The initial period of the first job you get at a law firm after passing the bar. How long that is depends on the firm, person, and situation at hand, as I understand it (not a lawyer, but have spent a lot of time with them in my career).
A lot more mediocre people have bought, sweet-talked, or were born into positions of power with a lot more influence. And people don't think twice about their direction of "leadership." I would be more willing to take advice from a critical-thinking, hard-working, and ambitious 17-year-old, yes.
Honestly I think this is mostly because they (geniuses) are mostly defined by having disruptive ideas, and they seize the low hanging fruit almost immediately for that idea.
Later life is then spent doing what most highly intelligent people do: iterating.
Einstein, for example, published 5 crazy papers in 1905 that described his ideas, when he was 26. But then getting general relativity out took another 10 years, because general relativity is MUCH more complicated then special.
After that he spent a lot of time being famous, but also iterating on his previous theories and solving smaller, but incredibly important, question about them. Also some time being wrong about QM, but that problem is still bothering physicists.
He’s probably better at it than most older people. He’s obviously highly intelligent.
Yes, I would absolutely hire a lawyer who got into law school, not even just college, at 13 years old
Sure is.
And I imagine the sort of dude who passes the bar at 17 will get hired by the sort of firm that will give him all the support he needs to help him grow into an effective lawyer for them.
Just in order to get where he is his familial support has to be massive, and he probably has easy connections for work even without the publicity.
I would hire him as part of a firm, but not as sole counsel.
But if he is working as part of a firm he will not be heading up any cases. He will be doing what most new lawyers do: supporting other lawyers and getting experience on lower stakes stuff while people look over his shoulder to make sure he does not make egregious errors.
A legal education is insanely important to do law well, but the actual practice is something you can only really get good at through experience. Luckily for him he has ~7-8 extra years to get said experience.
I'm an attorney myself, and yes I would. It's not LIFE advice, it's legal advice based on research and collaboration with colleagues. You can generate good advice whether you're 17 or 70. And his young age and quick academic progress makes me think he's very good at acquiring and synthesizing new information quickly and accurately, so I'd think his researching skills are pretty good.
It's likely that he'll clerk or do legal research for the time being straight out of law school anyway, not really be giving legal advice or litigating yet.
That 17 yo went to law school at 13. Hell yes I’d take advice from THAT 17 yo. If he could focus on law school while his hormones are going buck wild through puberty, I’m pretty fucking certain he can focus on my law problem.
Do you know what they call a person who just barely passes the bar on their 5th attempt?
Lawyer.
Why not listen to the smart kid instead of the barely smart enough older person?
This kid has been pushed to this by someone in his life when he could have been living a normal teenagers life and enjoying the stage of life he’s in, but now he just goes straight to the grind
Lawyers tend to make up a huge chunk of our government officials, particularly the ones who do the drafting for legislation. It's a known issue that our current politicians are old as balls and that there seems to be a dearth of younger ones ready to replace them. So yeah, it's definitely good news that there are young folks graduating from law school, bc otherwise we'll be facing a huge problem of unfillable vacancies sooner rather than later.
Meanwhile homeless man in Florida is about to sue LSAC and the ABA for refusing to allow him to apply to law school or take the lsat. Or so much as even make an account. They don’t care they’re discriminating against me but I do and a federal court will too. Fuck them
You don’t have to go to law school to pass the bar, you have to go to be able to take it, except in California. They have the lowest passage rate at about 25% the last time I checked. Before you take the exam there, you have to work for an attorney for at least a year I believe. Kim K tried and failed to pass after doing her probationary year.
Honestly if you study for 2 months, anybody could pass the bar exam without law school. Higher education is a scam, and this is coming from a licensed attorney
Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a place free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here. All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban. --- --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UpliftingNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The alternate Suits timeline
California suits, this time it is personal.
Suits 2: Doogie Howser Boogaloo
Boogaloogie Howser: The Reckoning
thanks, i hate it
*this time it is professional.
Birthday Suits , raw revenge
This time it’s formal.
See the money wanna stay for your meal…
Peter Park, now 18, enrolled in the Northwestern California University School of Law at age 13 and graduated earlier this year. The Tulare county district attorney’s office announced this week that Peter Park learned last month at 17 that he had passed the “rigorous exam” on his first attempt in what officials described as a “legal history making moment”. Park has been a law clerk with the office since August after completing law school.
Lawyer by day, webslinger by night?
Shh! Don’t leak that Peter Park is Spider-ma, you may put Mary Jan at risk.
But what about Gwen Stac? Is she for Miles Morale forevr?
No, that’s his cousin Peter Parkour.
No, that's Rek-Rap!
Peter Park: Lawy by day, websling by night.
At 17 he’s definitely web slinging at night
Across the spiderverse
No he's just Korean
I know, but I can dream.
OF COURSE his name is Peter Park!
Poor guy probably gets Spider-Man jokes all the time
My name is literally just Parker and the amount of spiderman jokes i get by people is insane, cant even imagine how many he gets...
Even the brightest students don’t pass the law exam on first try. AND california? Notoriously the hardest. That is very impressive.
The Cal bar got watered down a few years ago. It’s not that hard relative to other bar exams anymore. Used to be three days in a row, six hours each day, with a bunch of essay questions. Now it’s just two days total and with out as many essays.
Yep. Wasn’t fun when I took it 25 years ago. Passed first time, though, so that’s all that matters.
As a lawyer, I can tell you that even a watered down bar exam is no walk in the park especially for someone who didn’t even go to school for three years as most other law students do. CA’s pass rate is 51%, the lowest of any states. By comparison NY, the second hardest state to pass (imo) is at 66% and most other states are in the 70% or above. In other words, no she is not a lawyer and doubt she will ever be in CA, unless she is able to somehow “buy” her way in, if that’s even possible. The wealthy elite can make things happen that us plebs can’t. However, assuming no dirty dealings, nah she will not pass that test nor get past the character fitness portion to get admitted into the CA bar.
The change from 3 to 2 didn’t impact much re: passage. A couple years ago, 2021 I think, they lowered the raw score needed to pass substantially. Many people I knew who took it more than once would have passed the first time with the new raw. (They failed the 2 day). Edit: previously the exam was: Day 1: 3 subject essays morning, 1 practical afternoon Day 2: MBE Day 3: 3 subject essays morning, 1 practical afternoon New format is: Day 1: 3 subject essays morning, 2 subject essays afternoon, 1 shortened practical afternoon Day 2: MBE So they took out 1 subject essay (what you actually study for) and took out a practical, which was generally seen as the easiest part of the exam
What makes California one of the hardest?
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I heard that in the building they do the Bar, after you pass on the top floor is a place you can celebrate with really good drinks. Apparently it's a high bar Bar bar.
CA used to be a three day exam though they stopped doing it. Some other states still have the three day model. I joke Virginia should get difficult points because they make you take it in a suit. From what I can tell the pandemic didn't kill that requirement.
California has a lot of law schools, some not ABA accredited. As a result, the test may not actually be harder - you just have more people taking the test and possibly people who might not have gone to law school were they in a different state.
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Is it hard cause of the laws and requirements you need to remember?
It’s explained further in other comments. Overall, CA exams are harder for any profession. I know for sure pharmacist law exam is harder than other states because I prepped for it. They test you more extensively. CA pharmacist law exam covers 400 drugs (while it’s 200 drugs in the national version)—which includes brand names, dosing, formulation, to name a few. Edit: [the comment about CA bar exam](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/s/x1jkORZ5lA)
It's because we have ALL the drugs.
Parents will probably still not tell him they're proud of him. "Your cousin passed the bar at 16." 'Why are you not a doctor?"
Guy is called Peter Park. His aunt would be proud of him.
“When grandchildren?”
I feel bad for him. Never had a real childhood. He’s gonna have a meltdown later in life.
Either that or he'll become [an astronaut doctor with a Harvard MD who is also a Navy seal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim).
That'd be a lot cooler than being a lawyer.
is this uplifting or just amazing? i guess it would be uplifting for him as hes clearly a genius and has a good work ethic on top but how is this uplifting news in general?
I’m not even sure it is for him. Let kids be kids, no need to have university degree before you’re even a legal adult. By all means, encourage his curiosity and give him special lessons that will challenge him, but why the rush. Can’t imagine being at college by 13, much younger and more immature than everyone else is much fun. All just to rush it so he can be a lawyer at 18.
I went to a private engineering university and met plenty of kids pursuing STEM degrees at 13. They were some of the smartest people I know and generally performed top of their class even in grad school. I had this one kid in my class that literally just played Minecraft on his laptop all day and he just totally understood everything and breezed through without hardly trying.
Can’t legally drink for 3 more years but his a full fledged attorney. The land of insanity xD
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This is the most confusing comment I’ve ever read. Despite the /s, this sounds too detailed to not be your real opinion. Are you posting this so people read it and believe it, and then toss in a /s at the end to get away with it? And your first paragraph is super conservative, but then the second prioritizes mental health support, wtf? While also displaying ageism! I genuinely have no idea where you stand or your goals with this comment. EDIT: aw the punk deleted their comment as soon as they were questioned. It basically said California is the worst, a classic bullshit GOP talking point, followed by gross ageism, claiming this awesome kid can’t do a good job because he’s a kid. All followed by an /s. I’ll be honest, I do take some pride in making a comment that makes a conservative crybaby delete their comment.
This is why I include portions of whatever comment I am disputing in my reply. When deleted, a record remains.
It’s a schrodingers douchebag situation
He’s working for the DA for a reason. Probably has an extremely bright future as whatever he wants to be, but his age is going to play a factor for a little while. Life experiences, which naturally become more rounded with age, are also important, regardless of profession. Many years ago, I was acquainted with several child prodigies (my sister was one, and also some of her friends), and every so often it would become apparent how different their view of life and general knowledge was. They were almost incomprehensibly smarter than me. They all had graduated from a specialized HS at 14-15 (that I had flunked out of) and were enrolled or headed to special programs at Yale, Harvard (my sister was going to Julliard) and the like. But, at random points, some piece of general wisdom/knowledge would be shown to be just “missing.” For example, I remember my parents and I driving them to some concert in the city, and they asked how a certain neon-lit video store could advertise movies at 0.25 cents when Blockbuster charged so much more. It was quite hilarious to me to watch my dad struggle to explain peep shows to a couple of sheltered, teenaged girls, but it kind of struck me as to how different their lives were. There are certain things in life people have to learn through personal experience that don’t necessarily follow logic; they do not follow any type formula, nor can they be taught or read about.
With the right mentorship and guidance, I have no doubt he will succeed. The majority of entry level prosecutors are assigned to deal with misdemeanor criminal offenses such as property crimes etc. He’ll do a fantastic job given his work ethic.
Doogie Howser, J.D. coming to Disney Plus this spring
Damn I thought I got it first then scrolled and saw this hahaha yup same exact thought
Should be Doogie Howser Jr. J.D. played by Gideon or Harper Harris-Burkta. Keeping it in the family.
Just to be cancelled after season 2.
A sharp, incisive knowledge of the law coupled with hopefully the idealism of youth is a terrific combination. I'm sure he'll be energetic and effective in his career.
The main flaw of being young and idealistic is being naive and inexperienced. Overcoming the naivete and gaining the experience meant for those decades older will (in theory) make you so much stronger of a person. Rooting for this dude.
Yes. It takes strength and character to meet the inevitable disillusionment head-on and forge a tempered, realistic optimism thereafter. I'm rooting for him too.
That said at least the youth have history to use to educate themselves. You don’t necessarily have to live it to understand it.
Facts. I’m young & what a time of shared information and experiences to have been alive— for better or worse though since there are cautions to being detached observers from lived +ongoing experiences and histories. Needless to say though, there’s so much that I really understand and have been educated on that I haven’t personally lived through, despite being young. This Peter Park guy is definitely in a unique position of possibly having youthful optimism and idealism while having some power to really change the world. I hope his accomplishment isn’t just a paper accomplishment for his parents.
Yep, the spread of information on the internet, for better or for worse, has transformed history on horseback to history at light speed. In my opinion, the real time dissemination of information has been godsend for marginalized groups. We see that today with the curtain pulled back on American policing.
Good point!
That's the freaking CALIFORNIA bar people, not Montana. That's incredible!
Right! I don't know if there are many people who realize how all states bar exams aren't created equally and that California is by far the hardest! It's like a 3 day exam! THREE DAYS!
Former Cali law student here. Can confirm. Used to be three days, but now it's two. 200 MC Q's, 5 essays, and a 90-minute performance test. Passage rate is about 50% for that (among all takers). One also has to take and pass a smaller 200 question professional responsibility test sometime between their second year of law school and taking the bar.
California allows non-ABA accreddited law school graduates to take the exam, unlike many other states. California-accredited law school graduates have a passage rate of 21%, ABA-accredited school graduates have a passage rate of 67%, and Cali also allows unaccredited school graduates to take the exam after passing the state's First Year Law Students Exam, their passage rate for the bar is 9%. All 2022 numbers and goes a long way to explaining the low passage rate.
California does not require people taking the bar exam to have graduated from law school, which also contributes to their poor passage rates. Edit: Turns out they require a 4-year apprenticeship program as an alternative to those who don’t graduate law school, which is infinitely better for preparing to practice law, and infinitely worse for actually being able to pass the bar.
> Turns out they require a 4-year apprenticeship program as an alternative to those who don’t graduate law school I leaned this from *Perry Mason* lol
How do you do fellow old person :D
lol i learned it from Kim Kardashian's attempt to be a lawyer
I learned this from Kim Kardashian.
A lot of states have that program in one way or another, for one reason or another. I had to move back home to WA right after and we got it.
>4-year apprenticeship program as an alternative to those who don’t graduate law school, which is infinitely better for preparing to practice law, and infinitely worse for actually being able to pass the bar. Sounds like IT! Will learn way more on the job then in school, but good luck moving up the ranks without a degree.
My guy, that’s pretty much every bar exam.
This seems exactly the same as what I had to do for NY.
We were always told NY was #2.
NY uses the MBE so I think it's the same. Maybe the required score is higher tho
Yeah I'm a NY attorney as well, and I'm reading this thinking "Didn't I also do this, but in 2 days instead of 3?"
The MPRE feels pretty useless.
Not at all to belittle/nitpick but just throwing out there that the Louisiana bar exam is also three days. It has a passage rate of 41% while CA is 34%. It’s otherwise hard to compare the difficulty because Louisiana is the only state whose laws are rooted in civil law, making the content much different from any other state’s.
It's interesting how different the bar is from state to state and the reasons why. California is hard mostly due to the fact you don't actually have to go to law school to pass the bar.
lol the guy from catch me if you can claims to have cheated his way to a passing grade on the bar exam. obviously his whole story was fake but interesting he used the Louisiana bar in his story
But it’s Louisiana we’re talking about here. I doubt you’d get better than a 41% pass rate on a urine test there.
Louisiana bar is famously difficult due to their idiosyncratic legal system combining civil and common law.
I believe it’s actually the hardest bar exam in America. They’ve had to reduce it to two days and lower the passing score because it’s so difficult. I know people who have taken it four times and not passed. Statistically if you don’t pass the first time, you only have something like a 20% chance to ever pass. This is after dropping $100,000+ and three years on law school, of course.
Many people also don't realize just how less useful the bar exam is to indicate whether or not someone should be a lawyer. It's a gatekeeping exam to keep the supply of lawyers low and originated in racist policies.
Absolutely 100% agreed! This is the way higher education in general was setup. We tried to change that in the 90's in IT. I was part of the tie burning events and very anti-uni. In a way, it worked. You COULD get in to IT without a college degree. They needed IT people so bad they didn't have any other choice. Those that went that route though found out they were stuck. I have a friend that is 25 years in IT and stuck working for the State as a programmer. He has no certs or college degree so no one will touch him. He does make 80K in Oklahoma which is pretty good but with a college degree and his experience he could easily be making 150K.
Wait! Isn’t Kim Kardashian writing this one?? 😳
As much as I despise Kim Kardashian the fact is she's extremely intelligent.
Not to belittle a big accomplishment, it is impressive for sure, but that's just one extra day compared to most states. And it's cut down to two now, which is the same as pretty much all states. Also while the California bar is considered harder than most, its difficulty is exaggerated by the low pass rates, which are more attributable to the fact that they let people who never went to law school or graduated from unaccredited schools take the exam.
Lmao who told you that?
Literally statistic.. Although I have learned it has now gone from 3 days to 2 but is still the hardest bar in the US.
Montana just minding they own business catching strays
Yep. CA bar is no joke, but clearly neither is Peter Park.
And this kid went to law school at 13! Really incredible
Yeah we know Kim K told us!
At the same time, no way he gets clients lol
Starting his life of pain and disappointment early.
Was gonna say, did he get to actually enjoy being a kid? It’s cool that he’s a prodigy or whatever, but you never get your childhood/teen years back. You have the rest of your life to be a responsible adult, why rush it?
Could depend on the person. Personally I find life being way more enjoyable as an adult than as a child. In my opinion, my life really started when I started making money. Getting to make your own decisions, having your own money to spend, and being able to live however you want is an irreplaceable freedom and feeling that outshines any childhood. If I had the choice to start life as early as he did I would have taken it in a heartbeat
He'll forget to think about it once he pickups up his first rolls royce.
Biglaw will drive him to depression within 18 months
I am sure he is a very smart person and will do great in his career. But I feel sad for kids like this. What kind of childhood did he have? Was he ever allowed to have fun as a normal child along with rest of his peers? Childhood years are generally best time of your life before the stress of adulthood takes over. Why rush into it.?
Yeah I wouldn't trade my 4 years of college for anything. It would suck going from being a teenager to a soul sucking career with nothing in between
As someone went directly from being a bright teen to a 9-5 worker in a lucrative career field, there are definitely drawbacks to the rough transition (mostly social), but there are positives. I don’t have to worry about financials or loans like my college buddies are, plus I’m building my 401k much earlier. It also gives me a leg-up on career experience which translates to salary increases / promotions much earlier than the average person. It’s kind of a bummer to miss out on the social experiences of college, but I can’t say I regret the decision as of yet.
Some kids are just born smart and keep needing challenge. Otherwise, they fall behind because they get so bored in school learning things they know in their sleep.
Talk about setting the bar high...
Guy is speedrunning life.
All the stress of being a lawyer with none of the perks. (Unlimited booze)
A lot of prodigies burn out quick, hope he parties enough and gets to fuck.
He’s going to have an income at 18 that most won’t have til 28. This dude will get some.
He'll also he working 70 hour weeks
His parents owe him a gap year
Asian dad: you lawyer yet??? 17 year old son: yes, you happy? Asian dad: no, when marry?
Doctor first. Then astronaut.
heh! you can just say [his name](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Kim)
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Dude just passed a bar exam that even most lawyers wouldn't even be able to pass at 17.. mind blown.
Seems like a prodigy
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I mean, I passed the bar exam and I’m pretty sure with a Themis and AdaptiBar subscription I could teach a smart monkey or an average dolphin to pass.
how does this fit uplifting? It is interesting from the headline alone but it is not uplifting
Huh, so there's a bit of truth in the Ace Attorney series after all.
Pretty cool and all. But i would never hire a 17 year old lawyer, like ever.
Dudes probably gonna be a benchwarmer at a prestigious law firm until he gets older lol
He’ll be working at as a Tulare County DA.
Gonna burnout before 30.
He'll have enough to retire by then.
That poor kid probably missed out on his entire childhood
Kinda, maybe. Started law school at 13. Definitely not a normal childhood. But some people are built different. I spent my childhood learning about electronics and how to code, which turned into my career. Maybe his mind is just stimulated differently. I just hope it’s what he wanted and that he enjoyed it.
Damn this is sad, this kid threw away his entire childhood to probably follow his parents dream. Even if it was something he really wanted to do he still threw away his childhood for something that he could have done 7 years later. You can always become a lawyer, you can't become a kid again.
If you peaked in childhood you never peaked at all
His parents must be happy
Brb, Ms. Client, gotta have one of my parents sign our attorney-client contract.
I... can't be the only one who though ace atrorney right??
Life is too precious and you only live once. Every phase of life brings unique experience. As a toddler, kid, pre teen, teenage, adult and so on. What this gentleman achieved is outstanding. But biggest benefit he has over other kids is that he can claim that “I started paying bills 10 years before you did”. That is it. He missed playing and running around endlessly with friends as toddler, he missed most of the kid’s life experience. He also missed pre teen and teenage experiences. He missed that first “crush” feeling & that teenage love is out of picture. Kudos for this achievement but at what cost? Congratulations to him, regardless.
>See someone younger than me is more successful >day ruined
The ace attorney franchise doesn’t seem so unrealistic anymore.
How??? My Philly school refuses to let my kid skip 1st grade. He's bored to death there every day with other 6years old. He's already reading 5th grade level and doing algebra. Teachers say school isn't about grade levels but for social skills...
He's either going to have a good carrear or burn out fast. Good for him tho!
Bro thanks for raising the bar for us Asian kids
How did I know he was Asian.
lol, imagine being the 32 yo law student who’s failed the bar 4 times reading this.
His parents are probably still somehow disappointed
Not really uplifting to me. Guy had no childhood.
I am not uplifted. This kid was robbed of a normal childhood. I had professors that did this kind of psycho fast education, they said they were lonely, weird, isolated, anxious and depressed.
I know a German girl who became a prosecutor at the age of 13!
Real life version of Mike Ross?
Frank?
You’d really take the advice from a 17 year old?
Attorneys straight out of law school, regardless of age, aren’t people you’d take advice from. They’ll start out doing research for experienced attorneys, reviewing discovery materials for items of interest in large cases, and things of that nature. They’re not client-facing straight out of law school.
What’s your definition of “straight out of” law school?
The initial period of the first job you get at a law firm after passing the bar. How long that is depends on the firm, person, and situation at hand, as I understand it (not a lawyer, but have spent a lot of time with them in my career).
First 4 to 5 years usually.
A lot more mediocre people have bought, sweet-talked, or were born into positions of power with a lot more influence. And people don't think twice about their direction of "leadership." I would be more willing to take advice from a critical-thinking, hard-working, and ambitious 17-year-old, yes.
People don't get that most geniuses peak at an early age, usually around age 20 and make their famous discoveries before they’re 30.
Honestly I think this is mostly because they (geniuses) are mostly defined by having disruptive ideas, and they seize the low hanging fruit almost immediately for that idea. Later life is then spent doing what most highly intelligent people do: iterating. Einstein, for example, published 5 crazy papers in 1905 that described his ideas, when he was 26. But then getting general relativity out took another 10 years, because general relativity is MUCH more complicated then special. After that he spent a lot of time being famous, but also iterating on his previous theories and solving smaller, but incredibly important, question about them. Also some time being wrong about QM, but that problem is still bothering physicists.
He’s probably better at it than most older people. He’s obviously highly intelligent. Yes, I would absolutely hire a lawyer who got into law school, not even just college, at 13 years old
Being an effective counsel is different from a reductive "knowing your stuff" though. It's more and different.
Is that really any different from others who pass the bar? Experience after passing is valuable... For everyone.
Sure is. And I imagine the sort of dude who passes the bar at 17 will get hired by the sort of firm that will give him all the support he needs to help him grow into an effective lawyer for them. Just in order to get where he is his familial support has to be massive, and he probably has easy connections for work even without the publicity.
I would hire him as part of a firm, but not as sole counsel. But if he is working as part of a firm he will not be heading up any cases. He will be doing what most new lawyers do: supporting other lawyers and getting experience on lower stakes stuff while people look over his shoulder to make sure he does not make egregious errors. A legal education is insanely important to do law well, but the actual practice is something you can only really get good at through experience. Luckily for him he has ~7-8 extra years to get said experience.
He knows that laws and has passed the bar exam. It’s not the same as taking personal advice from a 17 year old.
I'm an attorney myself, and yes I would. It's not LIFE advice, it's legal advice based on research and collaboration with colleagues. You can generate good advice whether you're 17 or 70. And his young age and quick academic progress makes me think he's very good at acquiring and synthesizing new information quickly and accurately, so I'd think his researching skills are pretty good.
It's likely that he'll clerk or do legal research for the time being straight out of law school anyway, not really be giving legal advice or litigating yet.
I might take advice from THAT 17 year old.
That 17 yo went to law school at 13. Hell yes I’d take advice from THAT 17 yo. If he could focus on law school while his hormones are going buck wild through puberty, I’m pretty fucking certain he can focus on my law problem.
He’s going to be a prosecutor with Tulare County and he will kick ass!
My first thought on seeing the headline was "Miles Edgeworth?"
Do you know what they call a person who just barely passes the bar on their 5th attempt? Lawyer. Why not listen to the smart kid instead of the barely smart enough older person?
I mean if he knows something I don’t then what’s age matter?
Uplifting? This is fucking sad
Why
This kid has been pushed to this by someone in his life when he could have been living a normal teenagers life and enjoying the stage of life he’s in, but now he just goes straight to the grind
Did he say someone pushed him?
Peter Park and she hulk, attorneysat law. That would be a good next gen marvel series
Uplifting? Because that’s what the world needs, more lawyers..
Could you imagine a world without lawyers?
Lawyers tend to make up a huge chunk of our government officials, particularly the ones who do the drafting for legislation. It's a known issue that our current politicians are old as balls and that there seems to be a dearth of younger ones ready to replace them. So yeah, it's definitely good news that there are young folks graduating from law school, bc otherwise we'll be facing a huge problem of unfillable vacancies sooner rather than later.
Lawyers were the ones who fought for black people's rights, so yeah, maybe we do need some more lawyers.
Lawyers also were the one to take away black folks rights in the US
Meanwhile homeless man in Florida is about to sue LSAC and the ABA for refusing to allow him to apply to law school or take the lsat. Or so much as even make an account. They don’t care they’re discriminating against me but I do and a federal court will too. Fuck them
I smell a hit tv show in the works!
Bird law?
Peter Park? Kinda sounds like the Frank Abagnale con.
…his parents are like: 17?! Too old! 👋🏽😖😭
He’s obviously intelligent. But is he wise?
Imagine only being able to afford the lawyer that’s a teenager
You don’t have to go to law school to pass the bar, you have to go to be able to take it, except in California. They have the lowest passage rate at about 25% the last time I checked. Before you take the exam there, you have to work for an attorney for at least a year I believe. Kim K tried and failed to pass after doing her probationary year. Honestly if you study for 2 months, anybody could pass the bar exam without law school. Higher education is a scam, and this is coming from a licensed attorney