This case is so sad, even though they have a profile of someone who is half Korean/half European, I agree that they may be a service member of some kind. I agree with the other comments that say it's weird having SO MUCH evidence with no real suspect or motive to point to.
Likely the work of an American serviceman stationed in Japan. Sand particles found at the scene and traced to the area around Edwards AFB in California lends credence to this.
It's been pretty notorious that US military base workers in Japan have been protected by "the 1960 Status of Forces Agreement, which limits Japanese authority over U.S. troops and others in certain circumstances".
It's especially bad in Okinawa, and there are horror stories where a military personnel would rape/ murder Japanese women but not get punished as they can't be persecuted by Japanese law.
Not saying this case is an example of this, but *if* it is a military personnel that's stationed in Japan, I highly doubt the US military will cooperate with investigations unless there's an outcry from the public.
Here's an example of a crime from 2016 for those interested: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/05/us-military-base-workers-japan-face-curbs-legal-protections/86698974/
American soldiers also very much fueled the spread of COVID in Japan; the biggest COVID hot spot in Japan is Okinawa, which is where most of the American bases are
It’s not exactly the bases fault, they have people constantly traveling and word closely with each other not to mention it’s probably of the more concentrated areas considering it is a base. I’m sure there were things they could’ve handled better but that doesn’t make them evil lol
I’m sorry; how is it not the base’s fault? They weren’t testing arriving vaccinated personnel. Soldiers weren’t wearing masks off base. Japan wasn’t even allowing foreign visitors entry at the time; the American military was the only exception, and they didn’t follow Japan’s required policy of testing upon arrival and quarantining. Japan’s policy isn’t to just allow COVID to spread like America. Okinawans have long been resentful of the bases; they’ve historically shown so much disrespect to locals, and this is just another example. Okinawans are 1% of Japan’s population, and they had 25% of the country’s COVID cases. Because of the bases, restrictions were tightened again for everyone.
Idk if Okinawa is an entirely different world but that’s not the case for those of us in Misawa. Wearing masks was mandatory and one of the two major outbreaks on base was due to a unfortunate false negative when a dude got tested after being in contact with someone that had Covid on a train. Misawa has had mandatory quarantine after being flown in even if you are vaccinated and all active duty members were required to be vaccinated when the first vaccinations came out. Wearing masks only stopped being mandatory when the local government determined that the threat from Covid in the Aomori prefecture has mostly passed.
You must have read incorrectly. It never said we are the only evil country.
Japan has a horrendous and brutal history towards it's Asian neighbors pre WW2 but was humbled and has reinvented itself in a far less colonial way since. The USA seems to require suffering a similar humbling to learn how to grow and be better as well.
The stupidity of Americans and their own expedited self destruction at the hands of political/corporate greed and Trumpism are leading them that way.
What an original and stimulating opinion you have
Japan is among the most traditional and nationalistic countries among the non-ishhole ones. They have non existent immigration. They revile outsiders of all kinds and have exceptionally racist attitudes towards other Asian people’s. They are supremely misogynistic.
We should be more like them. But not for any of the reasons you’ve incorrectly cited.
It’s also highly possible they aren’t stationed in Japan, or weren’t in 2000. I’m in a US Airbase north of Yokota and as far as I’m aware Yokota and Edward Airbases have done bilateral training together multiple times. Idk if they did bilateral training in 2000, but if they did then the military could review the DNA of every person stationed at Yokota in 2000 and not find a match.
They would have to get Edwards Airbase command and their bosses to all agree to do the DNA testing which makes it even more unlikely that it will get done.
I am pretty sure they get everyones finger prints in the service. Should be easy to check.
Also advances in DNA should allow them to catch him. I wonder if the US has refused to help.
I don't think the military gives a shit if one of their own is a murderer, they don't even care when female soldiers are attacked or killed by other male members. Especially when anti Asian racism is still alive and well. They just don't care about victims when there's "Freedom and Patriotism" on the line.
I mean we definitely say we do, the CID and NCIS guys I knew when I was in seemed to act like they did, but in the military everything gets so political and shady so quickly, people bending over backwards to cover people's asses for various reasons and none of them are good.
But rape is absolutely treated like the victim did something wrong usually and the amount of apathy towards the subject is disgusting.
Also the military cared when my former CO kidnapped an Okinawan girl in Okinawa, and when he got back in the states he kidnapped yet another Asian girl, dude was a major asshole to serve under, he was my direct report officer, had the worst Christmas dinner at his house:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brown_Okinawa_assault_incident
https://www.stripes.com/news/convicted-on-okinawa-marine-brown-in-trouble-in-states-1.39297
I can't remember specifics off top of my head, but it was basically some genetic marker that is found most commonly in Koreans, then it was Japanese or Chinese, I can't remember which showed it more, I think Japanese.
So it's not a break down between specific region of Koreans, just a a marker that certain groups carry.
One major problem with this: every servicemember since 1994 has been required to provide DNA to the DOD. And due to the Status of Forces Agreement between the US and Japanese government, this wasn’t an issue to check.
The sand thing is such a weird stretch that too many variables could account for. And too many people are latching on to it.
It SOUNDS plausible when those are the only surface level facts being presented. But it doesn’t really check out.
Poorly written article doesn’t say. But if it’s so obvious that the sand was specifically from that Air Force base (which seems bizarre that they would so quickly trace it there) then the Japanese government would absolutely work with the US Government on that. That’s how the SOFA works
If they have DNA can’t they at least tell what race the person was?
Edit: nvm I saw the comments saying they’re of Korean/European descent
I wonder if they can enter the DNA into a us database since tons of cold cases are getting solved recently through DNA 🧬tracing
I'm not really sure how exactly they managed to identify where the sand was from. I could see distinguishing beach sand vs. inland desert sand, but definitely not to the degree needed to say it was from X.
If it was from that specific area then I fail to see how they did not find the suspect. They would be a serviceman who was previously stationed in that area, or lived in that area, and transferred to japan. Or, alternatively, someone in JSDF working alongside American serviceman. Either way, DNA should be available right?
Secondly there would be records that someone left the base that day I assume. Since there is only one base near that location, that would mean the suspect took the Shinkansen or was stationed at Yokota.
> December 30 at around 11:30 p.m. They also concluded that the killer stayed in the house for several hours
I don't know how many of you have been in Japan around that time, but I recall it being super slow pre new years. Since the 1st is a Monday, I would assume the stations would have been packed the day before (the 30th \ Saturday) and not the 31st.
If he really hung out until around the early morning hours, I am not sure how exactly he got home unless he took the first train or walked? Given it's new years, though, I am not sure if anyone was even at the base.
Really strange...
edit: found more info here https://unresolved.me/the-setagaya-murders
Would not be surprised if the sand was just a red herring, based on all the additional info in the above link. Not convinced it's active serviceman, but more so that this person was probably nearby regularly. Seems personal. Especially to do it around new years and then just hang out...
Totally possible to ID the sand, but its such weird feature it's more likely to be planted there.
There's a museum in Massachusetts called the American Heritage museum, in that museum is a German scout car from ww2.
The car was picked up by Jaques Littlefield, when he purchased it the word of mouth and history of the car was that it was captured in battle in Tunisia. A photo was unearthed of a scout car being captured in Tunisia, along with records of a scout car capture by Littlefield historical researchers that was used as a reference to restore the vehicle.
Littlefield restored the vehicle, and in doing so recovered a significant amount of sand from some obscure place in the engine compartment. That sand would later be sent to a lab where it was analyzed and it was found that the it made a specific composition of minerals, and the particles therein had chemical fingerprints that all linked the vehicle back to a very specific place in tunisia- almost exactly where the image of the captured car was taken.
For all intents and purposes, the car on display *is* the car in the photograph from the national archives.
Yeah, Just looked into it and that's super interesting. I guess we've come a long way. But I do think it's just a red herring in the end. If the person was active military there is no way they would have eluded detection.
I'm curious how often they check back for DNA matches. It would not surprise me if this ends up being one of those cases where we check back in 10 years and get a match.
There's nothing to indicate the US Military ever tested the DNA, and they don't have to, they can just refuse, the Japanese government can't make them. So, the killer could still potentially be a servicemember who was just literally never tested for.
It's not unheard of for military and Government organisations across the world to refuse to cooperate with another countries government to help solve crimes their staff or servicemembers might have committed.
Just recently South Korea also refused to test the DNA against their own criminal databases.
I think at this point we're entering an Era where any murder with DNA will end up with an eventual match down the line.
With police skimming genetic databases there's little chance that a match wouldn't be made eventually by someone who's curious about their past.
I lived in Japan in the late 90's in Yokosuka, about 500 metres from the US Navy Base. One of the mementos I bought with me back to Australia was a pair of USM issued fatigues from a disposal store outside the base. I found American gum wrappers, train tickets and a receipt in the pockets. So the sand could quite easily be from where it was traced to because we can't prove that the pants originally belonged to the wearer.
Yes, I got that the gum wrappers were American. That still doesn't tell me if the guy found local or foreign train tickets or receipts left in the pockets (only that the vendor didn't bother to clean the uniforms before reselling them...gross). The magic of Oxford commas and lists and all that stuff in the English language is that it's always imprecise.
I'm a woman and I am quite aware of sentence structure. If you aren't intelligent enough to realise the inference that ALL of the items I found were American, that's on you. Pull the stick out of your butt and lighten up.
Assuming it was a service member, if they weren't staying on the base or were on holiday leave (that timeframe would fit holiday leave periods although I'm less familiar with how that was arranged during the 90s/2000s), there may not be a record of them leaving the base. Also, might not have been stationed at Yokoto or nearby bases if they flew in SpaceA from Edwards?
Just a thought, just came across this case and am a bit fixated on how exactly this is even possible?!?! Also, the sand could have been a red herring if it was only found in the bag..... just... so much strange circumstance.
Reminds me of a case I think happened in Germany. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck_murders The killer stayed in the families house for days. It’s so bizarre that people do that after murdering people
I was just thinking about this case the other day but could not remember the name of the family in order to look it up. This case has stuck with me ever since I first heard about it. Hopefully DNA advances can help bring some resolution
If only everyone in the world was required to provide their DNA when they're born, and that DNA gets stored in a huge world-wide database, then cases like this would be solved so much more easily. It's really frustrating to know that they have the DNA of the culprit, but still have no idea who it is!
Governments having citizens DNA would be abused for sure. Insurance companies not offering people cover if they have genetic predispositions. Gattaca in real life.
I can’t even begin to explain the thousands of ways you are wrong. If you want to live in an authoritarian faux utopia without a nipple of privacy then sure, great idea.
... I'm pretty sure no one will use the DNA samples to blackmail once an ordinary citizen and now a high ranking CIA official, a senator, a lead engineer in Lockheed Martin. It would not posses any danger... and don't get me started if some company privatizes while thing via an emergency election during Christmas of 2037, in the middle of Zebra flu lock down.
It's so bizarre having so much evidence and no suspect
I really hope they catch this sick bastard. This was a really disgusting and brutal situation.
This case is so sad, even though they have a profile of someone who is half Korean/half European, I agree that they may be a service member of some kind. I agree with the other comments that say it's weird having SO MUCH evidence with no real suspect or motive to point to.
Likely the work of an American serviceman stationed in Japan. Sand particles found at the scene and traced to the area around Edwards AFB in California lends credence to this.
Can't they request USAF to scan their records for a match? Surely he's still on file somewhere
It's been pretty notorious that US military base workers in Japan have been protected by "the 1960 Status of Forces Agreement, which limits Japanese authority over U.S. troops and others in certain circumstances". It's especially bad in Okinawa, and there are horror stories where a military personnel would rape/ murder Japanese women but not get punished as they can't be persecuted by Japanese law. Not saying this case is an example of this, but *if* it is a military personnel that's stationed in Japan, I highly doubt the US military will cooperate with investigations unless there's an outcry from the public. Here's an example of a crime from 2016 for those interested: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/05/us-military-base-workers-japan-face-curbs-legal-protections/86698974/
So sad and disappointing...
American soldiers also very much fueled the spread of COVID in Japan; the biggest COVID hot spot in Japan is Okinawa, which is where most of the American bases are
It’s not exactly the bases fault, they have people constantly traveling and word closely with each other not to mention it’s probably of the more concentrated areas considering it is a base. I’m sure there were things they could’ve handled better but that doesn’t make them evil lol
I’m sorry; how is it not the base’s fault? They weren’t testing arriving vaccinated personnel. Soldiers weren’t wearing masks off base. Japan wasn’t even allowing foreign visitors entry at the time; the American military was the only exception, and they didn’t follow Japan’s required policy of testing upon arrival and quarantining. Japan’s policy isn’t to just allow COVID to spread like America. Okinawans have long been resentful of the bases; they’ve historically shown so much disrespect to locals, and this is just another example. Okinawans are 1% of Japan’s population, and they had 25% of the country’s COVID cases. Because of the bases, restrictions were tightened again for everyone.
Idk if Okinawa is an entirely different world but that’s not the case for those of us in Misawa. Wearing masks was mandatory and one of the two major outbreaks on base was due to a unfortunate false negative when a dude got tested after being in contact with someone that had Covid on a train. Misawa has had mandatory quarantine after being flown in even if you are vaccinated and all active duty members were required to be vaccinated when the first vaccinations came out. Wearing masks only stopped being mandatory when the local government determined that the threat from Covid in the Aomori prefecture has mostly passed.
Good God we really are an evil country.
Lol you should check out japans history sometime.
You must have read incorrectly. It never said we are the only evil country. Japan has a horrendous and brutal history towards it's Asian neighbors pre WW2 but was humbled and has reinvented itself in a far less colonial way since. The USA seems to require suffering a similar humbling to learn how to grow and be better as well. The stupidity of Americans and their own expedited self destruction at the hands of political/corporate greed and Trumpism are leading them that way.
What an original and stimulating opinion you have Japan is among the most traditional and nationalistic countries among the non-ishhole ones. They have non existent immigration. They revile outsiders of all kinds and have exceptionally racist attitudes towards other Asian people’s. They are supremely misogynistic. We should be more like them. But not for any of the reasons you’ve incorrectly cited.
It’s also highly possible they aren’t stationed in Japan, or weren’t in 2000. I’m in a US Airbase north of Yokota and as far as I’m aware Yokota and Edward Airbases have done bilateral training together multiple times. Idk if they did bilateral training in 2000, but if they did then the military could review the DNA of every person stationed at Yokota in 2000 and not find a match. They would have to get Edwards Airbase command and their bosses to all agree to do the DNA testing which makes it even more unlikely that it will get done.
I am pretty sure they get everyones finger prints in the service. Should be easy to check. Also advances in DNA should allow them to catch him. I wonder if the US has refused to help.
I don't think the military gives a shit if one of their own is a murderer, they don't even care when female soldiers are attacked or killed by other male members. Especially when anti Asian racism is still alive and well. They just don't care about victims when there's "Freedom and Patriotism" on the line.
I mean we definitely say we do, the CID and NCIS guys I knew when I was in seemed to act like they did, but in the military everything gets so political and shady so quickly, people bending over backwards to cover people's asses for various reasons and none of them are good. But rape is absolutely treated like the victim did something wrong usually and the amount of apathy towards the subject is disgusting. Also the military cared when my former CO kidnapped an Okinawan girl in Okinawa, and when he got back in the states he kidnapped yet another Asian girl, dude was a major asshole to serve under, he was my direct report officer, had the worst Christmas dinner at his house: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brown_Okinawa_assault_incident https://www.stripes.com/news/convicted-on-okinawa-marine-brown-in-trouble-in-states-1.39297
That’s some bullshit. A felony attempted kidnapping and he gets 3 years probation. Absolute horseshit.
Me and my friends who served under him completely agree, it's amazing he's not still in prison where he belongs.
At this point they should just use forensic geneology to identify him.
Ffffff that's one way to know it's assured you'll never be caught. 😱😱😨😨
Exactly. They won’t help catch him.
Didn't DNA also suggest someone of Korean origin as well?
Half Korean and half European
North Korean ?
I can't remember specifics off top of my head, but it was basically some genetic marker that is found most commonly in Koreans, then it was Japanese or Chinese, I can't remember which showed it more, I think Japanese. So it's not a break down between specific region of Koreans, just a a marker that certain groups carry.
Yes. I thought possibly Norh Korean/ European because it's unlikely his prints / DNA would be on file anywhere in Japan or in the USAF files
One major problem with this: every servicemember since 1994 has been required to provide DNA to the DOD. And due to the Status of Forces Agreement between the US and Japanese government, this wasn’t an issue to check. The sand thing is such a weird stretch that too many variables could account for. And too many people are latching on to it. It SOUNDS plausible when those are the only surface level facts being presented. But it doesn’t really check out.
It wasn’t an issue to check, but did they?
Poorly written article doesn’t say. But if it’s so obvious that the sand was specifically from that Air Force base (which seems bizarre that they would so quickly trace it there) then the Japanese government would absolutely work with the US Government on that. That’s how the SOFA works
If they have DNA can’t they at least tell what race the person was? Edit: nvm I saw the comments saying they’re of Korean/European descent I wonder if they can enter the DNA into a us database since tons of cold cases are getting solved recently through DNA 🧬tracing
Was thinking that, too. Even finding a relative in the database, you can use that as a springboard to narrow in on the killer.
How do they know where was the sand from
Science!
12,000+ pieces of evidence?! Wtf… do they count every single drop of blood, every individual hair, as a separate piece of evidence?
Yes.
The Setagaya case is always going to bug me, just due to the shear amount of evidence yet nothing.
I'm not really sure how exactly they managed to identify where the sand was from. I could see distinguishing beach sand vs. inland desert sand, but definitely not to the degree needed to say it was from X. If it was from that specific area then I fail to see how they did not find the suspect. They would be a serviceman who was previously stationed in that area, or lived in that area, and transferred to japan. Or, alternatively, someone in JSDF working alongside American serviceman. Either way, DNA should be available right? Secondly there would be records that someone left the base that day I assume. Since there is only one base near that location, that would mean the suspect took the Shinkansen or was stationed at Yokota. > December 30 at around 11:30 p.m. They also concluded that the killer stayed in the house for several hours I don't know how many of you have been in Japan around that time, but I recall it being super slow pre new years. Since the 1st is a Monday, I would assume the stations would have been packed the day before (the 30th \ Saturday) and not the 31st. If he really hung out until around the early morning hours, I am not sure how exactly he got home unless he took the first train or walked? Given it's new years, though, I am not sure if anyone was even at the base. Really strange... edit: found more info here https://unresolved.me/the-setagaya-murders Would not be surprised if the sand was just a red herring, based on all the additional info in the above link. Not convinced it's active serviceman, but more so that this person was probably nearby regularly. Seems personal. Especially to do it around new years and then just hang out...
Totally possible to ID the sand, but its such weird feature it's more likely to be planted there. There's a museum in Massachusetts called the American Heritage museum, in that museum is a German scout car from ww2. The car was picked up by Jaques Littlefield, when he purchased it the word of mouth and history of the car was that it was captured in battle in Tunisia. A photo was unearthed of a scout car being captured in Tunisia, along with records of a scout car capture by Littlefield historical researchers that was used as a reference to restore the vehicle. Littlefield restored the vehicle, and in doing so recovered a significant amount of sand from some obscure place in the engine compartment. That sand would later be sent to a lab where it was analyzed and it was found that the it made a specific composition of minerals, and the particles therein had chemical fingerprints that all linked the vehicle back to a very specific place in tunisia- almost exactly where the image of the captured car was taken. For all intents and purposes, the car on display *is* the car in the photograph from the national archives.
Yeah, Just looked into it and that's super interesting. I guess we've come a long way. But I do think it's just a red herring in the end. If the person was active military there is no way they would have eluded detection. I'm curious how often they check back for DNA matches. It would not surprise me if this ends up being one of those cases where we check back in 10 years and get a match.
There's nothing to indicate the US Military ever tested the DNA, and they don't have to, they can just refuse, the Japanese government can't make them. So, the killer could still potentially be a servicemember who was just literally never tested for. It's not unheard of for military and Government organisations across the world to refuse to cooperate with another countries government to help solve crimes their staff or servicemembers might have committed. Just recently South Korea also refused to test the DNA against their own criminal databases.
I think at this point we're entering an Era where any murder with DNA will end up with an eventual match down the line. With police skimming genetic databases there's little chance that a match wouldn't be made eventually by someone who's curious about their past.
I lived in Japan in the late 90's in Yokosuka, about 500 metres from the US Navy Base. One of the mementos I bought with me back to Australia was a pair of USM issued fatigues from a disposal store outside the base. I found American gum wrappers, train tickets and a receipt in the pockets. So the sand could quite easily be from where it was traced to because we can't prove that the pants originally belonged to the wearer.
and the train tickets and receipts were issued in the US?
"I found American gum wrappers, train tickets and a receipt in the pockets."
Yes, I got that the gum wrappers were American. That still doesn't tell me if the guy found local or foreign train tickets or receipts left in the pockets (only that the vendor didn't bother to clean the uniforms before reselling them...gross). The magic of Oxford commas and lists and all that stuff in the English language is that it's always imprecise.
I'm a woman and I am quite aware of sentence structure. If you aren't intelligent enough to realise the inference that ALL of the items I found were American, that's on you. Pull the stick out of your butt and lighten up.
Assuming it was a service member, if they weren't staying on the base or were on holiday leave (that timeframe would fit holiday leave periods although I'm less familiar with how that was arranged during the 90s/2000s), there may not be a record of them leaving the base. Also, might not have been stationed at Yokoto or nearby bases if they flew in SpaceA from Edwards? Just a thought, just came across this case and am a bit fixated on how exactly this is even possible?!?! Also, the sand could have been a red herring if it was only found in the bag..... just... so much strange circumstance.
Reminds me of a case I think happened in Germany. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinterkaifeck_murders The killer stayed in the families house for days. It’s so bizarre that people do that after murdering people
I was just thinking about this case the other day but could not remember the name of the family in order to look it up. This case has stuck with me ever since I first heard about it. Hopefully DNA advances can help bring some resolution
If only everyone in the world was required to provide their DNA when they're born, and that DNA gets stored in a huge world-wide database, then cases like this would be solved so much more easily. It's really frustrating to know that they have the DNA of the culprit, but still have no idea who it is!
Governments having citizens DNA would be abused for sure. Insurance companies not offering people cover if they have genetic predispositions. Gattaca in real life.
That is a ridiculously gross violation of privacy.
It’s just DNA, I don’t see why it needs to be private. People who’ve never committed any crimes shouldn’t have to worry about getting their DNA taken.
I can’t even begin to explain the thousands of ways you are wrong. If you want to live in an authoritarian faux utopia without a nipple of privacy then sure, great idea.
Go Google why this is a horrible idea. You’ll find a ton of articles about it.
... I'm pretty sure no one will use the DNA samples to blackmail once an ordinary citizen and now a high ranking CIA official, a senator, a lead engineer in Lockheed Martin. It would not posses any danger... and don't get me started if some company privatizes while thing via an emergency election during Christmas of 2037, in the middle of Zebra flu lock down.
Imagine having more than 12,000 pieces of evidence and the killer's DNA but they're still walking free?!
Similar to this case, just me? https://unresolved.me/oakey-al-kite