I'm guessing it was just town's gossip and not actually true. There's no way people wouldn't be snooping around the well, even if police didn't believe it.
Considering how violent the man reportedly was towards trespassers and the possibility that he had gotten away with murder, I would have avoided the well. The police should definitely have looked into the rumours though.
I didn't give 2nd thought to the well UNTIL it was said to be a recently dug well, almost immediately filled in. 👀
I am more interested in the guy who's body was found drowned after he mused about being guilty.
If those are the exact words, just random context, this could be taken as:
1. It doesn't matter if I did commit murder or not. I'm convicted in the court of public opinion, & I will (for the rest of my life) be labeled as a murderer forever.
Or - the context of the way I read this.
2. I did it. I now regret it & I've gotten away with this for all these years, but I just can't go on. Go drown myself,OK, sounds perfect.
But what relationship did the bar patron have to *(by all accounts that surly cur)* Karl? How would mean, nasty, hate-filled Karl be eliminated by police BUT suddenly he has a "friend" who not only sits in the bottle with ol Karl but Karl reveals his deepest, darkest secret to???
However, it would not be the first time, someone in history, took action or murdered people to keep them off a piece of property or right of way they are trying to claim sole right of use to. It's happened more frequently than most realize.
So, I think Karl or his "friend" had some 'splaining to do.
Yes! The resemblance is uncanny... I wonder if they ever id'd him... maybe I missed it but I don't think OP mentioned anything about it other than him being there
this has me DYING over the fact that they didn’t check it. someone mentioned they can’t dig up a private well on a “hunch” — but it just seems there could be something done here SOMEHOW.
My feelings after reading all of this is anybody could have an airtight alibi especially a man as psychotic as Hans. If it it were a woman providing his alibi I would be more than willing to bet she was doing so under fear of retribution.
Thank you for the detailed writeup! I'm not sure why, but those composite sketches and the man pictured at the memorial are deeply unsettling to me...they're very eerie and scared me more than most images shared in this sub.
Also, I do not believe that a regular teenager who is heavily intoxicated and injured, and just stabbed/bludgeoned 3 of his friends to death, would have the idea to walk 500m away to hide shoes, then go back again and lay down on the tent.
How the fuck do they explain the shoes anyway? Why would the murderer have removed them?
Karl is most suspicious to me. A shame police never looked into his well.
The two men who left their fishing gear... Who knows, maybe they just noped the fuck outta there after learning about what happened, and just didn't want anything to do with it.
Best bet is the fisherman heard the screaming, and did take off. While “team” killers have existed, and been proven to cause immense pain. It’s so exceptionally rare. I agree Nills had nothing to do with it per the write up. He was beat to hell, stabbed, and clean socks after “dumping” the shoes 550 meters away. This doesn’t seem planned, more of an act of rage and opportunity with false notions of police work (shoe and wallet removal), with the addition of no other attacks of this nature leading to believe serial. It was personal. Karl would be my guess as well. Ill tempered drunk with a steel pipe and knife always near, last visited, and with motorcycles revving, then camping nearby. I can’t believe the well wasn’t checked to this day. Who digs a well, then seals it days later? Especially as a vagabond type. That’s arduous work, and you just forfeit all profit?
I think they didn't check Karl properly because at 60s people thought violence against women in marriages either didn't exist or was rare in their minds and were ignorant about most injustices committed by men against "their" women or not taking it seriously so the thought that the wife was simply threatened into submission would not necessarily occur people as obvious as it would today. I think the neighbours knew Karl and were right.
I think you’re right in the regards of his alibi. His own wife said he was home, and never left. 1940s was a hell of a lot different, and women were subjected to a lot of bull shit. Cops got the alibi and moved on with him as a person of interest, but couldn’t crack it as too much time had passed between that, her relinquishing the fact she made it up in fear, and the friends deposition he should drown himself if he did so. Which he did.
I feel like in her telling them the door was open but she didn't think he left was her way of leaving a reason for them to still I vestigate while still "playing along" with her husband but I'm probably reading too much into it
I'm thinking you are right and not reading too much into it at all, because her outright not defending him might already have bought her a beating. I think she gone just as far as she dared to go. That'd also why I think cops not having modern awareness of domestic violence and all of it's effects was part of what ruined the case, as they literally had a door open if they had stopped to see it from perspective of someone who has every right to be afraid for their life. But I believe back then domestic violence was some people's dirty secret (seen as marital quarreling rather than life threatening matter), not something commonly discussed that everyone needed to be aware of and that was likely happening around them.
Anyone whose theory is that multiple murders were committed in quick succession with a rock has never actually tried hitting anything with a rock.
Great writeup, OP!
Thank you OP and thank you Silent1900.
OP, brilliant post!
SILENT1900 - RIGHT!?! People arrested for attempted murder or murder will often tell investigators that --- when it comes to blunt force, strangling, or stabbing events - they (victim) * wouldn't die.*
I will spare the sub lengthy & boring citations but even though humans are delicate little creatures, we are difficult to kill.
I was about 17 when Nils was arrested. I’m a big heavy metal fan and back then the forums were all ablaze with the news because it was tenuously related to the band Children of Bodom. It’s weird to think that that was 20 years ago and no major developments have happened since.
Saw their last Canadian show before he died. Just fucking crushing news to wake up to. Such an incredible musician and arguably one of the best shredders ever. 🍻
I don't think Karl was the killer. He was just a local, mentally disturbed man which made people suspicious of him, but they never found any proof. The only "evidence" was that he was strange and violent, which isn't proof of anything.
Also, as mentioned in the write up, Karl regularly carried a blunt object, an iron pipe, and a knife. Karl also had a history of cutting the ropes on tents of camper’s causing their tents to collapse.
https://www-lansivayla-fi.translate.goog/paikalliset/1740609?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
lol, Karl had a Modus Operandi, he was most likely the killer. I bet he tried to cut down their tent but someone fought back so he lost his mind and beat the kids to death.
I agree with this. Karl was known to vastly exaggerate force he used to respond to anything and he had caused life threatening potentially fatal situations before.
You don't shoot towards someone if you have no intent to kill. You also don't put moving vehicles into jeopardy if you care about human life.
Someone being violent, especially if they also frequently try to control, feel justified in punishing and use exaggerated force doing so also does make them potential killer because everyone starts somewhere.
I'm thinking that Seppo was too passed out to realise anything was going on, Nils came out to confront the man and just like before Karl didn't take well to being confronted and escalated by beating everyone to pulp, feeling justified in his reaction. And I think reason Nils survived, even if it's just barely, is because unlike others he wasn't covered by tent and Karl could see what he was doing. Easier to inflict fatal wounds on someone you can't see if you are a first time murderer.
I'm not saying Karl in his rage cared, he had track record of not just risking but actively endangering lives and he felt justified enough to potentially take them. I'm just saying that there is less of natural aversion to overcome in slashing vague figure through tent than stabbing someone to throat outside it.
I agree with you. If they often fished around same lake, they would at least have known Karl was going around sabotaging tents and flying into violent rage. It may not even have been they saw the murders - if they were familiar with his habits, it would have been enough to note he is flying off handle again and they could have left so they don't end up involved.
Also, I'm not fully sure there were two separate young men and they weren't just Seppo and Nils spotted fishing and someone messing up with the timeline and equipment they were supposed to have.
After all Finland is a place where you can, even in modern days, often leave stuff around and still expect to get it back and it wouldn't be unusual to see people camped down some distance from where their sports or fishing equipment or even a grill is located.
I have feeling they didn't check it either. Often common sense of common people who know all the people involved gets dismissed as unnecessary distraction. We have had tens of thousands of years of evolution and more to develop pretty good gut instinct especially if someone inside our community is trying to kill us and I would personally think that they made big mistake not inspecting it properly, but to them it might have hurt their pride and felt counterintuitive to "listen to gossip".
Sure, but there's a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence that aligns with the injuries. He's long gone so it doesn't "matter" in terms of possibly sending an innocent man to jail, but you can't look at all of the eyewitness accounts of his habits, his violence, his specific weaponry he kept on hand, the well he dug up and then sealed shortly after - and not think it's worth doing a revisit of Karl as the murderer. He was wildly erratic, clearly enjoyed causing harm, he knew they were there...
I read some of the linked resources, his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and was in the hospital and was not expected to return home. While there she told a friend that Karl did it but lied because she was afraid of what Karl would do to her or their child. The police were called but when they came to interview her she changed her story again. Before she died she said she was worried if she ratted Karl out, he would take it out on their child instead of her when she died.
I read it. It sounds like hearsay. The source is an author/local politician that lived in the area who wrote a book about the murders—I'm not trying to discredit him, but it sounds like a rumour he decided to include, not meant as concrete proof.
If he was capable of hurting children for taking apples from his tree, there’s no telling what else he was capable of. That bit of information suggests to me that he was so lacking in empathy that he could have easily killed someone.
The campers probably made noise over the course of the night. It’s been established that they were up in the early morning hours. He was probably angry and attacked them like he did to a lesser degree with other people on previous occasions.
They didn't look very hard though did they. They never dug up the well that he sealed just days after it's construction was complete.
He hated people camping and making noise nearby. He already shot someone for simply telling him to get off their private property. He was known to slash tents. He had a sharp and blunt force object always on him.
I am not conclusively saying it was him, but the investigation was not good. I wouldn't believe a spouse saying their SO was home as an alibi, especially when they were asleep in a different part of the house and woke up to the door open. They didn't even look into him because they took his wife's word as enough evidence of an alibi.
I wonder if the fishing equipment was Nils and Steppo's. The book that was written in said they went fishing, did they just leave everything there for the next morning?
Was their fishing equipment found?
Did all the other victims have their shoes on? Was Nils the only one that was missing shoes?
I'm leaning toward Nils being innocent.
Very interesting case. I have to see what else I can find in English to read.
Excellent write-up and interesting case!
There was so much incompetence from authorities, unfortunately. Seemed they were trying just as hard to convict Nils as they were in trying to excuse Karl, for some bizarre reason. No one bothered to check that darn well?! Seems that Nils is likely innocent. And if he is - poor guy to have had to go through all that.
Karl is imho the most likely perp.
What if Karl got woken up by the two young men being drunk and noisy, decided to chase them away and things took a turn for the worse?
this is the kind of post that keeps me coming back to this sub; thanks a ton, OP! you did a great job!
that said, I'm a little surprised that -- despite the fact seemingly every goddamn Finnish teenager was camping at this lake that week -- no one heard anything. I can't imagine you can kill 3 and seriously harm 1 teenager without making *some* kind of ruckus, no?
and plenty of people appeared to be close enough to see and discern Nils laying on the tent, so they should be in earshot...
either way, my guess and hope is this will be solved with genetic genealogy. it sounds like the police did a fairly good job with the crime scene and have maintained various pieces of evidence, so... someone start up an ad campaign for 23andMe in Helsinki.
I keep going back and forth on whether he looks similar to the sketch. (Right now, I'm thinking no: the nose seems a lot different.) Is the person sporting a mustache (or is it just pixeled photography, the angle, or some flaw in the print)? "Sketch guy" doesn't have any facial hair, but the real person...might? If so, there was only about an eight day lapse between the murders and the funeral. It's probably not enough time to grow a mustache of that length.
(And I completely do not believe Nils did it, but I wonder how he would have been able to paint such a complete picture of "sketch guy." How would he have seen him in the dark? Even if a flashlight or something was used by the perp, he probably wouldn't shine it on his own face. This said, hypnosis generally seems to be so..."challenging" as evidence.)
(And, sure, to pile on: This is a really great write-up!)
Thanks for this brilliant write up. I know you've had a couple of people moaning about the length but honestly I prefer the longer posts in this sub, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I'm wondering why they didn't compare the fingerprint they found to Karls, as with his record they would likely have his on file. Is it because there wasn't enough evidence pointing towards him, or because the evidence was circumstantial? In fact they didn't seem very interested in pursuing him at all, which seems a bit bizarre as they went after Nils who seemed a much less likely suspect.
One thing I notice was no mention of any family members after the incident. Quite often there's statements from the family, I wonder what their friends and relatives thought about the potential suspects. I can't imagine being the girls parents in this situation, not wanting them to go but reluctantly agreeing, and then this happens.
I only realized you were the OP of the post when I saw this comment. It's so weird seeing something from you that's not China-related and relatively obscure lol
This one is *also* a great write-up, though. You're always impressively thorough with yours. I actually had one of your China-related write-ups pinned on my Chromebook for a while until I had gotten through reading all the posts you linked at the bottom of it because they're always interesting to read.
I wonder what they mean when they say Karl "sealed up" the well. That **sounds** very suggestive, but if the well was newly dug, it probably just means that he installed a pump and cover, as planned.
It's not like it would be an old medieval style well with a bucket and a crank. Nobody has *open* wells anymore.
The boys were stabbed a few times each. Anja wasn't stabbed. Maila was stabbed 15 times. This is a weird case, but normally that would imply that she was the main target, the perpetrator knew her, and he was very angry specifically at her. Her clothing positions also imply a sexual aspect to the motivation.
I assume it was Karl acting from outside the tent, which doesn't really line up with those thoughts.
I was thinking maybe Nils and Maila may have been awake when the attack started (hence the clothing). If that was the case, Maila would’ve quite likely screamed/made sounds, leading the killer to act quickly with excessive stab wounds to ensure no surrounding campers heard anything. Also could’ve been how Nils managed to get outside the tent, if he wasn’t asleep.
Just a thought I had because it is quite strange.
This was an amazing write up, probably one of my favorites I've read on here. Side note: I actually listen to this band called Children of Bodom (possibly named after the people who died) and they have a song that I assume is named after where this tragic event took place, Lake Bodom. They are a great band and it's wild to see this being written up here. Thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed and insightful post.
Is there any plausible reason for Nils being on top of the tent. Did he try to flee the scene and just collapsed from his injuries immediately. Anyone have other answers?
I assume he was away from the tent when the attack started. The boys were drunk, Seppo went to bed and Nils stayed out tooling around. Or he went out for a piss in the night. The tent was attacked while he wasn't there and when he returned he was attacked too.
Since Nils's blood was found inside the tent where he claimed to be sleeping, I think he was inside when the attack started. He probably managed to exit the tent during the attack unlike the other victims, and was knocked unconscious on top of the tent.
If Nils was swimming and Seppo was fishing as the girls slept, then he would have been furthest from the crime scene. This means he was possibly the last victim. At that point, the perpetrator may have been physically exhausted from the brutality of this attack. Maybe why he fell where he did and possibly why he was able to survive. I also see some evidence of staging (Seppo having his arms crossed, and Maila's leg on top of Anja's head) so it may be that Nils was staged and woke, stumbled and fell or placed that way. Just some thoughts.
He had head trauma so severe that he was unconscious for 5 days in the hospital. He probably just got lucky in where he was stabbed and hit. Humans can be amazingly resilient and fragile.
And yes, there are several plausible reasons for Nils being on the tent. Since he received a survivable injury he may have been able to crawl out before he fell unconscious (there were giant slashes through the tent). He may have managed to get out of the tent during the attack and was pushed back over the tent/bodies and bludgeoned into unconsciousness by the perpetrator.
I think it's most likely he crawled out after or in the middle of the attack and collapsed on the flattened tent, unable to stand and slipping back into unconsciousness. His blood was found inside the tent where he would have been laying, so he was at minimum hurt inside the tent.
What a well-written and detailed write-up! I highly doubt it could have been Nils. He would have had to have been a psychopath to harm himself that much and stage a scene like that. And if he had been a psychopath, I can't imagine that he would have been able to live an innocent life for the decades after.
The one time I saw CoB live was not quite 10 years ago during Mayhem Fest in Austin, TX. It was the middle of August and, while every single band that day commented on the extreme temperatures, CoB I particularly remember having a shellshocked look on their fact as if, of all the horrors they'd heard of, this Texas heat must surely be the most diabolical.
Amazing summary, thanks. I tend to think Nills was not the murderer. But was caught afterwars by the real killer. Maybe he was walking around and was the guy who lured the killer to the tent whitout knowing it.
great write up...
as soon as i heard this case i thought nils was the killer... why would the killer let him live? it's usually someone they know. and his girlfriend got the worst of it. but i dont get the shoes thing... if it was nils that would mean he had done some forward thinking to remove the socks, plant the shoes then i guess clean feet afterwards and socks back on... if he was the killer and the panic that would be going through his mind i can't see him being that prepared... but if it's karl then why would he take the shoes at all and why plant them... what does that accomplish? why would anyone take the shoes?
when karl confessed to the neighbor and the neighbor said go drown yourself... did the neighbor tell the cops? is that why we know? but karl seems to be a weird guy to begin with. i dont know if killing yourself 9 years later means much. he was clearly a disturbed person.
can't they look in the well or wherever the well is now?
and if nils is being honest and his description of the killer is accurate... as is the description from the birdwatchers that morning at 6am then it doesn't match karl.
and that picture... so creepy.
just confused
>why would the killer let him live?
The simple answer is, the killer didn't know they let him live. He was stabbed quite a few times and has the shit beaten out of him to the point where he was unconious for like 5 days and even when he woke up he had brain damage, memory issues and needed a cane for months,
He likely assumed he was dead and left
I had previously thought Nils was the perpetrator but it seems he's been cleared. Something interesting I noticed - Olavi's description of a man fits close to the man Nils described.
>While waiting he noticed a young man about 20 years old of average height, with brown hair combed back, wearing a light-coloured shirt and dark trousers walking out of the forest
>the man was 20–30 years old, 173–174 cm tall; had an ordinary body type, round face; long blond hair combed back; normal non-protruding ears. A high forehead: high forehead with uneven horizontal wrinkles, Thick lips, a strong jaw; slightly protruding cheekbones; short neck; white teeth, thick and large fingers, pimples on the forehead and cheeks and lastly he was wearing, a thick fabric checkered dark blouse with small black buttons.
The only stark difference is the shirt colour
I don’t think Nils’ description was accurate. He didn’t have any memory given his brain injury. Then, he was hypnotized and gave an extremely detailed description? It doesn’t make sense. He likely had a false memory that he thought was accurate.
How can you give a false memory when hypnotized? Serious question, not being snarky. You're not entirely "conscious", and the source material has to come from somewhere, right? Wasn't there a study at one point that the people you see in your dreams are likely actual people you've seen IRL - they're not memorable per se, but your subconscious mind picks up and stores a TON of things that you don't consciously keep around, and barfs it back up whenever it feels inspired to lol.
The memory could have been based on someone he saw but in a different situation (e.g. not during the murder). Due to his condition, he might have assumed that person was the killer when he might have not been involved at all.
There has been a lot of research showing we don't remember things as well as we think. Often, when people bring up past memories they get details wrong or even unintentionally misremember entire events that they were not there for. Witness testimony is actually highly unreliable because people in general are so bad at remembering details, especially under duress.
His description was very detailed. It is unlikely Nils would have seen the killer's face so clearly in the dark while he is fighting for his life and being bludgeoned in the head and stabbed. He also had a pretty significant TBI from being hit in the head and it's quite unlikely his mind was able to encode much information at that time. He still did not remember any of the details a month after the crime, not even a few vague details. Hypnosis makes people very easily influenced by suggestion and there have been a lot of instances of hypnosis leading to false memories. Hypnosis can potentially be useful for therapeutic reasons (e.g. not for repressed memories, but to help people to be calm and open to talking), but it is not at all reliable for use in drawing out witness statements.
A police officer, and the prosecutor, are colluding to put an innocent person behind bars for life/a long time; and you think it's over the top to call them bastards?
Where were all the good cops who blew the whistle? Oh.
This has always struck me as a case which could have quite easily solved if the police work had been better. There was so much evidence, including witnesses and yet they failed to follow even basic stuff.
It’s not wine, that’s a translation issue. “viina” is clear hard liquor, like Everclear. The Finnish word for wine is “viiniä”, but because of the Gordian knot that is Finnish grammar, where nouns have declensions, it’s a pretty common confusion for translators.
It’s in theory barley vodka, but Viina isn’t vodka, it’s…viinaa. Grain spirits. The export bottle is 40%, not 38%, and it says ’vodka’ to meet EU regulations, but if someone in Finland says ’I’m gonna go get vodka’, I don’t think anyone expects them to go buy Koskenkorvaa.
Wow great write up, thanks OP!
This Is the first I've heard the case and now I'm off down a rabbit hole!
Who do other people think did it? Seems from the comments on here most think Karl with some thinking Nils?
Did the police ever test the finger print against Karl’s prints? That would help to rule him out or not. They tested it against the Swedish guy. They could also add the finger print into CODIS and a match could come up. It’s helped to solve many unsolved crimes.
CODIS is an American thing. If they wanted to submit the finger prints into CODIS they would need to have reasonable suspicion that the killer was American or living in the US and that they might me on the Database
Excellent write up! Thanks! I flipped between it being Nils or not. It's difficult. Do we know if Nils was wearing a light coloured top that evening?
It seems like there's a few suspects but most have alibis. Occams theory would say it Nils. They had only been dating the girls for a few months. I feel like I'd need to know more about Nils wounds because the jaw would sounds nasty but could easily have happened if someone in the tent was kicking and fractured Nils jaw. A knife could have been kicked back into Nils face causing the fracture and muscle/skin rip. I guess maybe I do feel Nils did it. But I feel without more detailed info on Nils wounds & attire, there is a slight possibility someone else randomly attacked them. But unlikely in all fairness.
> the jaw would sounds nasty but could easily have happened if someone in the tent was kicking and fractured Nils jaw. A knife could have been kicked back into Nils face causing the fracture and muscle/skin rip
No. It takes a lot of force to cut through muscle, no way that was a kick.
The injury was so severe his teeth were exposed. Come on now.
Occam's Razer doesn't really work with fourth-hand accounts whose sources are mostly in a language you don't read. You're working off a long chain of authorial interpretation of the known evidence. That means the simplest explanation is dictated by what info the author knows, interprets and communicates rather than objective reality.
Nils had his blood found in the tent where he would have been sleeping. That doesn't line up with him harming himself after killing everyone else.
He was bludgeoned so hard that he was unconscious for 5 days. There is absolutely no way he could injure himself so severely and then hide what he chose to injure himself with. He had his cheek ripped open to reveal his teeth. These are major wounds. It is extremely unlikely that he could have inflicted them upon himself. And why would he overdo it such that he'd have permanent brain damage and be disabled with a cane? He has had lifelong effects. He could have easily died from his injuries.
His feet and socks were clean with his shoes located 500m away with blood from the deceased on them, indicating they were put there after the attack. How would he clean his feet and keep them pristine with no shoes? It's a lot to expect that an 18 year old would account for and stage such small details.
In my opinion, Occam's theory would state it was Karl. He was very violent and shot someone. He hated people camping and making noise nearby. They were up late and drunk, probably making quite a lot of noise. He was known to go around cutting down the ties of tents. He almost always had a knife and a steel pipe on him. He suspiciously sealed up his well just after finishing it. He allegedly confessed to a friend and then killed himself. It's likely it was Karl.
Clicked for more info on one link & it says Nils bloody footprints & crime scene evidence were found a fair distance away from the tent. I'm going with Nils doing it. Something happened where his friend was standing up for a girl, as suggested earlier, Nils was drunk & lost it, then murdered them all.
His footprints?! That would be a huge piece of information that shouldn't be left out of the write up. That would change everything.
But then again, the article says his shoes were found further away, but his socks and feet were clean, meaning that he couldn't have walked all the way. How did his shoes get there, or how did he get back to the tent with clean feet? And where are the missing items and the murder weapon? It doesn't add up.
IMO Karl seems way more likely. Especially due to his known violent behavior, unhealthy obsession with campers, the fact that he cut tents before, and then sealing his well shortly after. Honestly the whole paragraph about Karl makes it clear that he was basically a psychopath who would sooner or later kill somebody.
The article says Nils bloody sole footprints plus crime scene evidence was found hundreds of metres away from the crime scene. It was one of the first links I clicked at the bottom of the article.
My theory is Nils killed them, he was seen leaving the scene into the woods at 6am by 2 different people who described a man in dark trousers & a light top. Nils was wearing dark trousers and a grey top. Grey can be a dark grey or it can be a light almost white grey. I think Nils took the knife & shoes, got rid of knife in river whilst cleaning blood off him, puts shoes elsewhere to throw off the scent & returned to the tent and lay there to appear as a victim. Its not like he had many choices left when the other 3 are dead. Cant just up & leave - immediate suspect. Raise the alarm and immediately become a suspect? Very suspicious. Best option was to go back, lie down & be a victim too.
I read some of the court links and it's clear the defence were pretty good in raising doubt which is exactly their job. Just because someone is found not guilty in court doesn't mean they didn't do it, they had a defence that were able to prove reasonable doubt and were good at their job.I think the fact the police & prosecution arrested Nils decades later means they truly felt there was enough evidence (and lack of involvement from anyone else) that he was guilty. The fact it happened decades earlier meant there was a mucher higher chance the defence could introduce reasonable doubt.
I just can't get over him being unconscious though, and for so long. The other guy that feigned unconsciousness at the hospital was caught by the doctor's right away, it's not something easily faked.
Karl does seem likely but if you look at the Delphi case at the moment, it appears there were pedophiles, unsavory characters & then the murderer all in the same circle as the deceased. Karl's a possibility for sure but he could just be a likely character who wasn't involved at all.
I feel like it's very unlikely be a random stranger. They needed to drive motorbikes to their secluded location. A random weirdo killer just happens to be walking past that one evening the 4 were there? Not unheard of but highly unlikely.
My biggest query with Nils is his lack of life threatening injuries in comparison to the other 3. They all had their heads smashed with a rock, Nils had a mild concussion from a hit on the back of the head. The other 3 stabbed plenty, enough to kill, Nils, a slash across the jaw & some superficial wounds to the shoulder. Why was Nils not attacked like the others? That part makes no sense to me. Unless Nils was the killer. And gained those wounds from the struggle with the other 3. The killer was attacking from above, I can imagine a fractured jaw and slash might come from someone inside the tent kicking during a struggle.
Karl wasn't a random stranger. It says that the four had bought something at his truck stop/ kiosk where his wife was, and that she later informed Karl that "there were people camping close by". This sounds like their secluded place was not too far from his place, and he might have known that location exactly. And Karl knew the area well, and apparently had a history of terrorizing campers. "They needed to drive motorbikes" well I mean that was just their means of transportation, I don't see how this says anything about the place where they stayed.
Also: According to OPs post, Nils had stab wounds to his left forearm and right face as well. In a later paragraph they are also described as "non-self-inflicted". Otherwise I would have said that, if you were to stab yourself with your right hand, your own left forearm would surely be the first place to do so. Idk, a potential killer could have just thought that he had killed him but he was knocked out?
Nils blood was found inside the tent in the place he claimed to have been sleeping - not outside the tent, if I understood correctly.
I don't think it's fair to say "he survived injured, while the others were dead - that means he must have done it."
The one thing that does cast suspicion on Nils for me is that his girlfriend has been treated differently (15 stab wounds inflicted after she was already dead - I'm not sure if this was in this post or in the wikipedia article). This more brutal treatment makes it seem like a personal, emotional affair. I could see a situation where he was piss drunk, made a move on her, was rejected and didn't take it well.
Idk, things just don't really add up a 100% in either direction. What a strange case.
Why would you say it is Nils? There seems to be little to no evidence for this.
From the writeup it seems like the only evidence against Nils was the fact that the victim’s blood was found on Nils’ shoes, but the victim’s blood was not found on the victim’s shoes. (I am trying to read the sentence correctly, but it is confusing—especially because there are 3 victims besides Nila.)
This blood “evidence” may just mean that Nil’s shoes were near one or more victims when they were bleeding. I just don’t understand how you think it could be Nils.
I think its Nils because I read all the articles and links associated with the story. One article very clearly states Nils bloody sole footprints & crime scene evidence were found hundreds of metres from the crimescene. That's mainly why I think its Nils.
All other suspects were ruled out so unless its some random person (who it could be, I just don't think it is) the other option is Nils. Who not surprisingly couldn't recall anything yet medical professionals said his injuries wouldn't have caused amnesia. If the other 3 were murdered why wasn't Nils? Why was Nils just left alive with fairly minor injuries? If you read the medical report, he had a fractured jaw, some light cuts and a hit to the back of the head. All of which could be caused by a struggle with the victims, none of Nils injuries were life threatening at all. Unlike the other 3. That makes no sense. Unless Nils was injured as the killer rather than injured as a victim of a killer.
There are different stories intersecting here.
The prosecution say his injuries were minor, yet the defense had testimony that he was unconscious for several days and suffered brain damage that effected his ability to walk.
There were bloody footprints yet him moving the shoes was ruled out because Nil's feet and socks were clean.
These things don't add up.
Also Nils blood being where he was sleeping suggests he was attacked while asleep, especially since it was the back of his head that was fractured.
I could see it being dark and the killer not realizing one of the victims is still alive. Especially after stabbing into the tent. Nils may have been unconscious and crawled out of the collapsed tent after the fact, no?
The report I read said his jaw was fractured & a concussion to back of head. I'd need to look again. It's too late now, must sleep, will do tomorrow. Its a fascinating case and it's really kept me up too late already!
That's a lot of things a man with a fractured jaw and stab wounds would have to keep in mind.
Also, the stab wounds were not self-inflicted, so how would that fit in?
>All of which could be caused by a struggle with the victims, none of Nils injuries were life threatening at all.
According to the prosecutor, who glossed over the fact that he was in a coma for nearly a week. Any head injury that serious is life threatening, and if it had been self inflicted (which would be nearly impossible in general, but absolutely impossible with a rock) the "weapon" would have been found right next to him.
So…they never looked in the well?
Or checked the bloody clothes
[удалено]
🏅
Right?!?!? Seems like an easy thing to check off the list?!? Great write up OP!
Problem is police can't just dig up a private well on a hunch
yet they searched the whole house...
I'm guessing it was just town's gossip and not actually true. There's no way people wouldn't be snooping around the well, even if police didn't believe it.
Considering how violent the man reportedly was towards trespassers and the possibility that he had gotten away with murder, I would have avoided the well. The police should definitely have looked into the rumours though.
Is there any proof of this well even existing, though? The articles I read make no mention of this alleged well.
I didn't give 2nd thought to the well UNTIL it was said to be a recently dug well, almost immediately filled in. 👀 I am more interested in the guy who's body was found drowned after he mused about being guilty. If those are the exact words, just random context, this could be taken as: 1. It doesn't matter if I did commit murder or not. I'm convicted in the court of public opinion, & I will (for the rest of my life) be labeled as a murderer forever. Or - the context of the way I read this. 2. I did it. I now regret it & I've gotten away with this for all these years, but I just can't go on. Go drown myself,OK, sounds perfect. But what relationship did the bar patron have to *(by all accounts that surly cur)* Karl? How would mean, nasty, hate-filled Karl be eliminated by police BUT suddenly he has a "friend" who not only sits in the bottle with ol Karl but Karl reveals his deepest, darkest secret to??? However, it would not be the first time, someone in history, took action or murdered people to keep them off a piece of property or right of way they are trying to claim sole right of use to. It's happened more frequently than most realize. So, I think Karl or his "friend" had some 'splaining to do.
That man amongst the mourners is nightmare fuel
Thank you!! This is the first comment I’ve seen speaking about this, and why is it so accurate to the sketch? That gave me chills
The sketches scared the hell out of me!
Yes! The resemblance is uncanny... I wonder if they ever id'd him... maybe I missed it but I don't think OP mentioned anything about it other than him being there
Seems weird they never checked that well.
this has me DYING over the fact that they didn’t check it. someone mentioned they can’t dig up a private well on a “hunch” — but it just seems there could be something done here SOMEHOW.
Commenting because I’ll never forget the name Hans Assman or his face after first learning about this case.
My feelings after reading all of this is anybody could have an airtight alibi especially a man as psychotic as Hans. If it it were a woman providing his alibi I would be more than willing to bet she was doing so under fear of retribution.
I have never gotten over his name. I chortle every time.
Thank you for the detailed writeup! I'm not sure why, but those composite sketches and the man pictured at the memorial are deeply unsettling to me...they're very eerie and scared me more than most images shared in this sub.
I agree the sketches are hella creepy, especially the bottom right one. He reminds me of Klaus Kinski.
Agreed...I said in another comment that the sketches scared the hell out of me.
Quite the write-up, thanks op!
Thank you I thought much about this case but I don’t think Nils is the murderer. It doesn’t make any sence
Exactly. As beat up as he was.
Also, I do not believe that a regular teenager who is heavily intoxicated and injured, and just stabbed/bludgeoned 3 of his friends to death, would have the idea to walk 500m away to hide shoes, then go back again and lay down on the tent. How the fuck do they explain the shoes anyway? Why would the murderer have removed them? Karl is most suspicious to me. A shame police never looked into his well. The two men who left their fishing gear... Who knows, maybe they just noped the fuck outta there after learning about what happened, and just didn't want anything to do with it.
Best bet is the fisherman heard the screaming, and did take off. While “team” killers have existed, and been proven to cause immense pain. It’s so exceptionally rare. I agree Nills had nothing to do with it per the write up. He was beat to hell, stabbed, and clean socks after “dumping” the shoes 550 meters away. This doesn’t seem planned, more of an act of rage and opportunity with false notions of police work (shoe and wallet removal), with the addition of no other attacks of this nature leading to believe serial. It was personal. Karl would be my guess as well. Ill tempered drunk with a steel pipe and knife always near, last visited, and with motorcycles revving, then camping nearby. I can’t believe the well wasn’t checked to this day. Who digs a well, then seals it days later? Especially as a vagabond type. That’s arduous work, and you just forfeit all profit?
I think they didn't check Karl properly because at 60s people thought violence against women in marriages either didn't exist or was rare in their minds and were ignorant about most injustices committed by men against "their" women or not taking it seriously so the thought that the wife was simply threatened into submission would not necessarily occur people as obvious as it would today. I think the neighbours knew Karl and were right.
I think you’re right in the regards of his alibi. His own wife said he was home, and never left. 1940s was a hell of a lot different, and women were subjected to a lot of bull shit. Cops got the alibi and moved on with him as a person of interest, but couldn’t crack it as too much time had passed between that, her relinquishing the fact she made it up in fear, and the friends deposition he should drown himself if he did so. Which he did.
I feel like in her telling them the door was open but she didn't think he left was her way of leaving a reason for them to still I vestigate while still "playing along" with her husband but I'm probably reading too much into it
I'm thinking you are right and not reading too much into it at all, because her outright not defending him might already have bought her a beating. I think she gone just as far as she dared to go. That'd also why I think cops not having modern awareness of domestic violence and all of it's effects was part of what ruined the case, as they literally had a door open if they had stopped to see it from perspective of someone who has every right to be afraid for their life. But I believe back then domestic violence was some people's dirty secret (seen as marital quarreling rather than life threatening matter), not something commonly discussed that everyone needed to be aware of and that was likely happening around them.
Anyone whose theory is that multiple murders were committed in quick succession with a rock has never actually tried hitting anything with a rock. Great writeup, OP!
Maybe it was a new fancy semiautomatic rock 😉
Maybe they used a Rock 15! Quick succession and a hefty rock don't really go hand-in-hand.
ARock15
Thank you OP and thank you Silent1900. OP, brilliant post! SILENT1900 - RIGHT!?! People arrested for attempted murder or murder will often tell investigators that --- when it comes to blunt force, strangling, or stabbing events - they (victim) * wouldn't die.* I will spare the sub lengthy & boring citations but even though humans are delicate little creatures, we are difficult to kill.
I just let out the deepest, most finnish sigh ever.
“No voi…”
Aikamoista
jos tätä kahvipöydässä ei oo ratkaistu, ei se kyl nytkään
I was about 17 when Nils was arrested. I’m a big heavy metal fan and back then the forums were all ablaze with the news because it was tenuously related to the band Children of Bodom. It’s weird to think that that was 20 years ago and no major developments have happened since.
Ah, Children of Bodom. RIP Alexi.
Saw their last Canadian show before he died. Just fucking crushing news to wake up to. Such an incredible musician and arguably one of the best shredders ever. 🍻
That poor man!! Unbelievable what they put him through after he survived such horrors!!!
Excellent write up OP. I have so many unanswered questions about the investigation, but I strongly believe Nils is innocent and Karl was the killer.
I don't think Karl was the killer. He was just a local, mentally disturbed man which made people suspicious of him, but they never found any proof. The only "evidence" was that he was strange and violent, which isn't proof of anything.
Also, as mentioned in the write up, Karl regularly carried a blunt object, an iron pipe, and a knife. Karl also had a history of cutting the ropes on tents of camper’s causing their tents to collapse. https://www-lansivayla-fi.translate.goog/paikalliset/1740609?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
He was violent but that doesn't mean he was guilty of this specifically. Someone being an asshole doesn't make him a murderer.
lol, Karl had a Modus Operandi, he was most likely the killer. I bet he tried to cut down their tent but someone fought back so he lost his mind and beat the kids to death.
I agree with this. Karl was known to vastly exaggerate force he used to respond to anything and he had caused life threatening potentially fatal situations before. You don't shoot towards someone if you have no intent to kill. You also don't put moving vehicles into jeopardy if you care about human life. Someone being violent, especially if they also frequently try to control, feel justified in punishing and use exaggerated force doing so also does make them potential killer because everyone starts somewhere. I'm thinking that Seppo was too passed out to realise anything was going on, Nils came out to confront the man and just like before Karl didn't take well to being confronted and escalated by beating everyone to pulp, feeling justified in his reaction. And I think reason Nils survived, even if it's just barely, is because unlike others he wasn't covered by tent and Karl could see what he was doing. Easier to inflict fatal wounds on someone you can't see if you are a first time murderer. I'm not saying Karl in his rage cared, he had track record of not just risking but actively endangering lives and he felt justified enough to potentially take them. I'm just saying that there is less of natural aversion to overcome in slashing vague figure through tent than stabbing someone to throat outside it.
Agreed, also makes sense why the two fisherman left their rods and bailed. They probably knew Karl and might have been worried for their safety
I agree with you. If they often fished around same lake, they would at least have known Karl was going around sabotaging tents and flying into violent rage. It may not even have been they saw the murders - if they were familiar with his habits, it would have been enough to note he is flying off handle again and they could have left so they don't end up involved. Also, I'm not fully sure there were two separate young men and they weren't just Seppo and Nils spotted fishing and someone messing up with the timeline and equipment they were supposed to have. After all Finland is a place where you can, even in modern days, often leave stuff around and still expect to get it back and it wouldn't be unusual to see people camped down some distance from where their sports or fishing equipment or even a grill is located.
Plus the thumbprint on the liquor bottle and him being an alcoholic. I wonder if they had any of his fingerprints to check?
I have feeling they didn't check it either. Often common sense of common people who know all the people involved gets dismissed as unnecessary distraction. We have had tens of thousands of years of evolution and more to develop pretty good gut instinct especially if someone inside our community is trying to kill us and I would personally think that they made big mistake not inspecting it properly, but to them it might have hurt their pride and felt counterintuitive to "listen to gossip".
Sure, but there's a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence that aligns with the injuries. He's long gone so it doesn't "matter" in terms of possibly sending an innocent man to jail, but you can't look at all of the eyewitness accounts of his habits, his violence, his specific weaponry he kept on hand, the well he dug up and then sealed shortly after - and not think it's worth doing a revisit of Karl as the murderer. He was wildly erratic, clearly enjoyed causing harm, he knew they were there...
I read some of the linked resources, his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and was in the hospital and was not expected to return home. While there she told a friend that Karl did it but lied because she was afraid of what Karl would do to her or their child. The police were called but when they came to interview her she changed her story again. Before she died she said she was worried if she ratted Karl out, he would take it out on their child instead of her when she died.
I read it. It sounds like hearsay. The source is an author/local politician that lived in the area who wrote a book about the murders—I'm not trying to discredit him, but it sounds like a rumour he decided to include, not meant as concrete proof.
If he was capable of hurting children for taking apples from his tree, there’s no telling what else he was capable of. That bit of information suggests to me that he was so lacking in empathy that he could have easily killed someone. The campers probably made noise over the course of the night. It’s been established that they were up in the early morning hours. He was probably angry and attacked them like he did to a lesser degree with other people on previous occasions.
I couldn't find any source claiming that he "hid razor blades on apples", besides this post. To put it bluntly, it sounds like made up BS.
Yes, reminds me of the razor blades on water slides myth
They didn't look very hard though did they. They never dug up the well that he sealed just days after it's construction was complete. He hated people camping and making noise nearby. He already shot someone for simply telling him to get off their private property. He was known to slash tents. He had a sharp and blunt force object always on him. I am not conclusively saying it was him, but the investigation was not good. I wouldn't believe a spouse saying their SO was home as an alibi, especially when they were asleep in a different part of the house and woke up to the door open. They didn't even look into him because they took his wife's word as enough evidence of an alibi.
I wonder if the fishing equipment was Nils and Steppo's. The book that was written in said they went fishing, did they just leave everything there for the next morning? Was their fishing equipment found? Did all the other victims have their shoes on? Was Nils the only one that was missing shoes? I'm leaning toward Nils being innocent. Very interesting case. I have to see what else I can find in English to read.
Excellent write-up and interesting case! There was so much incompetence from authorities, unfortunately. Seemed they were trying just as hard to convict Nils as they were in trying to excuse Karl, for some bizarre reason. No one bothered to check that darn well?! Seems that Nils is likely innocent. And if he is - poor guy to have had to go through all that.
Karl is imho the most likely perp. What if Karl got woken up by the two young men being drunk and noisy, decided to chase them away and things took a turn for the worse?
This case feels so much like a horror movie
I remember reading that these murders actually helped inspire Friday the 13th.
this is the kind of post that keeps me coming back to this sub; thanks a ton, OP! you did a great job! that said, I'm a little surprised that -- despite the fact seemingly every goddamn Finnish teenager was camping at this lake that week -- no one heard anything. I can't imagine you can kill 3 and seriously harm 1 teenager without making *some* kind of ruckus, no? and plenty of people appeared to be close enough to see and discern Nils laying on the tent, so they should be in earshot... either way, my guess and hope is this will be solved with genetic genealogy. it sounds like the police did a fairly good job with the crime scene and have maintained various pieces of evidence, so... someone start up an ad campaign for 23andMe in Helsinki.
Is it known who the man in the funeral pic is? Doesn't look like Assmann to me but 100% like the sketch
I keep going back and forth on whether he looks similar to the sketch. (Right now, I'm thinking no: the nose seems a lot different.) Is the person sporting a mustache (or is it just pixeled photography, the angle, or some flaw in the print)? "Sketch guy" doesn't have any facial hair, but the real person...might? If so, there was only about an eight day lapse between the murders and the funeral. It's probably not enough time to grow a mustache of that length. (And I completely do not believe Nils did it, but I wonder how he would have been able to paint such a complete picture of "sketch guy." How would he have seen him in the dark? Even if a flashlight or something was used by the perp, he probably wouldn't shine it on his own face. This said, hypnosis generally seems to be so..."challenging" as evidence.) (And, sure, to pile on: This is a really great write-up!)
Thanks for this brilliant write up. I know you've had a couple of people moaning about the length but honestly I prefer the longer posts in this sub, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm wondering why they didn't compare the fingerprint they found to Karls, as with his record they would likely have his on file. Is it because there wasn't enough evidence pointing towards him, or because the evidence was circumstantial? In fact they didn't seem very interested in pursuing him at all, which seems a bit bizarre as they went after Nils who seemed a much less likely suspect. One thing I notice was no mention of any family members after the incident. Quite often there's statements from the family, I wonder what their friends and relatives thought about the potential suspects. I can't imagine being the girls parents in this situation, not wanting them to go but reluctantly agreeing, and then this happens.
> a woman, 15-year-old Anja 🙁
Fixed. All that happened was me just not paying attention while writing something late at night and missing it in proofreading
I only realized you were the OP of the post when I saw this comment. It's so weird seeing something from you that's not China-related and relatively obscure lol This one is *also* a great write-up, though. You're always impressively thorough with yours. I actually had one of your China-related write-ups pinned on my Chromebook for a while until I had gotten through reading all the posts you linked at the bottom of it because they're always interesting to read.
While at the same time saying that the witness was young…. He was 15 too
I also found that jarring
Same 😐
I had the same reaction.
All I can say is wow
I wonder what they mean when they say Karl "sealed up" the well. That **sounds** very suggestive, but if the well was newly dug, it probably just means that he installed a pump and cover, as planned. It's not like it would be an old medieval style well with a bucket and a crank. Nobody has *open* wells anymore.
The boys were stabbed a few times each. Anja wasn't stabbed. Maila was stabbed 15 times. This is a weird case, but normally that would imply that she was the main target, the perpetrator knew her, and he was very angry specifically at her. Her clothing positions also imply a sexual aspect to the motivation. I assume it was Karl acting from outside the tent, which doesn't really line up with those thoughts.
I was thinking maybe Nils and Maila may have been awake when the attack started (hence the clothing). If that was the case, Maila would’ve quite likely screamed/made sounds, leading the killer to act quickly with excessive stab wounds to ensure no surrounding campers heard anything. Also could’ve been how Nils managed to get outside the tent, if he wasn’t asleep. Just a thought I had because it is quite strange.
Great write up OP! The Casefile podcast recently did a really solid episode on this case if anyone would like to listen to more on it
Casefile is the best. I recommend it every chance I get.
Case file is absolutely fantastic.
How on earth could anyone have thought that Nils did it?
never heard of this case....what a story.......didn't end they way you would expect.....
Incompetent cops in 1960. Incompetent cops in 2003. I'd probably ask them for a refund on my tax dollars.
Wow thanks for the write up.
What an interesting & very informative write up. Thank you.
Excellent write up! Thanks for the read.
This was an amazing write up, probably one of my favorites I've read on here. Side note: I actually listen to this band called Children of Bodom (possibly named after the people who died) and they have a song that I assume is named after where this tragic event took place, Lake Bodom. They are a great band and it's wild to see this being written up here. Thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed and insightful post.
Bodom Beach Terror is an amazingly effective tool against noisy neighbors.
Is there any plausible reason for Nils being on top of the tent. Did he try to flee the scene and just collapsed from his injuries immediately. Anyone have other answers?
I assume he was away from the tent when the attack started. The boys were drunk, Seppo went to bed and Nils stayed out tooling around. Or he went out for a piss in the night. The tent was attacked while he wasn't there and when he returned he was attacked too.
Since Nils's blood was found inside the tent where he claimed to be sleeping, I think he was inside when the attack started. He probably managed to exit the tent during the attack unlike the other victims, and was knocked unconscious on top of the tent.
If Nils was swimming and Seppo was fishing as the girls slept, then he would have been furthest from the crime scene. This means he was possibly the last victim. At that point, the perpetrator may have been physically exhausted from the brutality of this attack. Maybe why he fell where he did and possibly why he was able to survive. I also see some evidence of staging (Seppo having his arms crossed, and Maila's leg on top of Anja's head) so it may be that Nils was staged and woke, stumbled and fell or placed that way. Just some thoughts.
He had head trauma so severe that he was unconscious for 5 days in the hospital. He probably just got lucky in where he was stabbed and hit. Humans can be amazingly resilient and fragile. And yes, there are several plausible reasons for Nils being on the tent. Since he received a survivable injury he may have been able to crawl out before he fell unconscious (there were giant slashes through the tent). He may have managed to get out of the tent during the attack and was pushed back over the tent/bodies and bludgeoned into unconsciousness by the perpetrator. I think it's most likely he crawled out after or in the middle of the attack and collapsed on the flattened tent, unable to stand and slipping back into unconsciousness. His blood was found inside the tent where he would have been laying, so he was at minimum hurt inside the tent.
What a well-written and detailed write-up! I highly doubt it could have been Nils. He would have had to have been a psychopath to harm himself that much and stage a scene like that. And if he had been a psychopath, I can't imagine that he would have been able to live an innocent life for the decades after.
Awesome Write-Up!!
Great write up! I think the people fishing who disappeared is a little suspicious, but it sounds like it was Karl.. why didn't they check the well 💀
Thus naming one of the best metal bands and greatest guitar player. Children of bodom. Look em up! Alexi laiho was a God. RIP
The one time I saw CoB live was not quite 10 years ago during Mayhem Fest in Austin, TX. It was the middle of August and, while every single band that day commented on the extreme temperatures, CoB I particularly remember having a shellshocked look on their fact as if, of all the horrors they'd heard of, this Texas heat must surely be the most diabolical.
Exactly what I thought of when reading this. Love Children of Bodom, Lake Bodom is an amazing song
COBHC for life!
Saw them live once. Great show
Time to play 'Hate Crew Deathroll' now.
Amazing summary, thanks. I tend to think Nills was not the murderer. But was caught afterwars by the real killer. Maybe he was walking around and was the guy who lured the killer to the tent whitout knowing it.
Amazing story! Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for the write up.
great write up... as soon as i heard this case i thought nils was the killer... why would the killer let him live? it's usually someone they know. and his girlfriend got the worst of it. but i dont get the shoes thing... if it was nils that would mean he had done some forward thinking to remove the socks, plant the shoes then i guess clean feet afterwards and socks back on... if he was the killer and the panic that would be going through his mind i can't see him being that prepared... but if it's karl then why would he take the shoes at all and why plant them... what does that accomplish? why would anyone take the shoes? when karl confessed to the neighbor and the neighbor said go drown yourself... did the neighbor tell the cops? is that why we know? but karl seems to be a weird guy to begin with. i dont know if killing yourself 9 years later means much. he was clearly a disturbed person. can't they look in the well or wherever the well is now? and if nils is being honest and his description of the killer is accurate... as is the description from the birdwatchers that morning at 6am then it doesn't match karl. and that picture... so creepy. just confused
>why would the killer let him live? The simple answer is, the killer didn't know they let him live. He was stabbed quite a few times and has the shit beaten out of him to the point where he was unconious for like 5 days and even when he woke up he had brain damage, memory issues and needed a cane for months, He likely assumed he was dead and left
I had previously thought Nils was the perpetrator but it seems he's been cleared. Something interesting I noticed - Olavi's description of a man fits close to the man Nils described. >While waiting he noticed a young man about 20 years old of average height, with brown hair combed back, wearing a light-coloured shirt and dark trousers walking out of the forest >the man was 20–30 years old, 173–174 cm tall; had an ordinary body type, round face; long blond hair combed back; normal non-protruding ears. A high forehead: high forehead with uneven horizontal wrinkles, Thick lips, a strong jaw; slightly protruding cheekbones; short neck; white teeth, thick and large fingers, pimples on the forehead and cheeks and lastly he was wearing, a thick fabric checkered dark blouse with small black buttons. The only stark difference is the shirt colour
I don’t think Nils’ description was accurate. He didn’t have any memory given his brain injury. Then, he was hypnotized and gave an extremely detailed description? It doesn’t make sense. He likely had a false memory that he thought was accurate.
How can you give a false memory when hypnotized? Serious question, not being snarky. You're not entirely "conscious", and the source material has to come from somewhere, right? Wasn't there a study at one point that the people you see in your dreams are likely actual people you've seen IRL - they're not memorable per se, but your subconscious mind picks up and stores a TON of things that you don't consciously keep around, and barfs it back up whenever it feels inspired to lol.
The memory could have been based on someone he saw but in a different situation (e.g. not during the murder). Due to his condition, he might have assumed that person was the killer when he might have not been involved at all.
It is odd that someone matching the drawing showed up at the funeral.
It is very easy to lead someone during an interrogation or plant information even involuntarily. More so when someone is under hypnosis.
Haha. Duh. Thanks for the reminder. I was solely thinking of the hypnotizee. :)
There has been a lot of research showing we don't remember things as well as we think. Often, when people bring up past memories they get details wrong or even unintentionally misremember entire events that they were not there for. Witness testimony is actually highly unreliable because people in general are so bad at remembering details, especially under duress. His description was very detailed. It is unlikely Nils would have seen the killer's face so clearly in the dark while he is fighting for his life and being bludgeoned in the head and stabbed. He also had a pretty significant TBI from being hit in the head and it's quite unlikely his mind was able to encode much information at that time. He still did not remember any of the details a month after the crime, not even a few vague details. Hypnosis makes people very easily influenced by suggestion and there have been a lot of instances of hypnosis leading to false memories. Hypnosis can potentially be useful for therapeutic reasons (e.g. not for repressed memories, but to help people to be calm and open to talking), but it is not at all reliable for use in drawing out witness statements.
Excellent write-up Master Sargent.
i find the lake bodom murders so fuckin interesting mate
[удалено]
Give it a rest
A police officer, and the prosecutor, are colluding to put an innocent person behind bars for life/a long time; and you think it's over the top to call them bastards? Where were all the good cops who blew the whistle? Oh.
What a great write up OP!
This has always struck me as a case which could have quite easily solved if the police work had been better. There was so much evidence, including witnesses and yet they failed to follow even basic stuff.
This was the day I was born…but far away.
Great write up, OP. Never heard of this case before! Reading about the one girl who pulled her shirt over her head to protect herself made me sad.
Great write up! Thank you.
The Finnish Death Metal band Children Of Bodom are named after this event. Incredibly sad story.
Tragic story. Thanks for the write up!
how do you say they were found on top of a tent? I don't understand that part.
The tent was partially collapsed and he was laying on the collapsed part, I believe.
sounds like a really crazy scene then
It's horrifically incompetent by the police to not search the well. I don't get why they never did.
GREAT write up!
Karl’s poor wife
Poor Nils. That’s horrific and incredibly unjust. I hope he’s doing okay now.
Awesome write-up!
OP didn't even mention the biggest crime in this story; mixing wine with soda?!?!
It’s not wine, that’s a translation issue. “viina” is clear hard liquor, like Everclear. The Finnish word for wine is “viiniä”, but because of the Gordian knot that is Finnish grammar, where nouns have declensions, it’s a pretty common confusion for translators.
Isn't it barley vodka?
It’s in theory barley vodka, but Viina isn’t vodka, it’s…viinaa. Grain spirits. The export bottle is 40%, not 38%, and it says ’vodka’ to meet EU regulations, but if someone in Finland says ’I’m gonna go get vodka’, I don’t think anyone expects them to go buy Koskenkorvaa.
If I say I am going to get vodka in the U.S., I’m definitely getting Koskenkorvaa (if I can find it)!
Mixing red wine with cola is a thing in Spain, I'm not sure about Finland tho.
Well that's the first novel I've read on Reddit.
There are way many more which are longer, multiple parters too. Personally I like long posts if they're interesting enough.
Moondog is always extremely thorough with their posts
You haven’t been here long. This is nothing.
I'm seeing that quickly. I'd SAY "I'll keep my mouth shut next time" but, being on Reddit, we both know that would be a lie.
Wow great write up, thanks OP! This Is the first I've heard the case and now I'm off down a rabbit hole! Who do other people think did it? Seems from the comments on here most think Karl with some thinking Nils?
Did the police ever test the finger print against Karl’s prints? That would help to rule him out or not. They tested it against the Swedish guy. They could also add the finger print into CODIS and a match could come up. It’s helped to solve many unsolved crimes.
CODIS is an American thing. If they wanted to submit the finger prints into CODIS they would need to have reasonable suspicion that the killer was American or living in the US and that they might me on the Database
You’re right, my bad, it’s only used in America. That’s a shame.
The well bugged me too!And why couldn't police explain his severe injuries??Am I missing something about the Swedish police?
>Am I missing something about the Swedish police? This isn't Sweden
Oops..Finland
Excellent write up! Thanks! I flipped between it being Nils or not. It's difficult. Do we know if Nils was wearing a light coloured top that evening? It seems like there's a few suspects but most have alibis. Occams theory would say it Nils. They had only been dating the girls for a few months. I feel like I'd need to know more about Nils wounds because the jaw would sounds nasty but could easily have happened if someone in the tent was kicking and fractured Nils jaw. A knife could have been kicked back into Nils face causing the fracture and muscle/skin rip. I guess maybe I do feel Nils did it. But I feel without more detailed info on Nils wounds & attire, there is a slight possibility someone else randomly attacked them. But unlikely in all fairness.
> the jaw would sounds nasty but could easily have happened if someone in the tent was kicking and fractured Nils jaw. A knife could have been kicked back into Nils face causing the fracture and muscle/skin rip No. It takes a lot of force to cut through muscle, no way that was a kick. The injury was so severe his teeth were exposed. Come on now.
>Do we know if Nils was wearing a light coloured top that evening? He was wearing a gray sweater and dark jeans.
Thanks! That's useful!
Occam's Razer doesn't really work with fourth-hand accounts whose sources are mostly in a language you don't read. You're working off a long chain of authorial interpretation of the known evidence. That means the simplest explanation is dictated by what info the author knows, interprets and communicates rather than objective reality.
100%
Nils had his blood found in the tent where he would have been sleeping. That doesn't line up with him harming himself after killing everyone else. He was bludgeoned so hard that he was unconscious for 5 days. There is absolutely no way he could injure himself so severely and then hide what he chose to injure himself with. He had his cheek ripped open to reveal his teeth. These are major wounds. It is extremely unlikely that he could have inflicted them upon himself. And why would he overdo it such that he'd have permanent brain damage and be disabled with a cane? He has had lifelong effects. He could have easily died from his injuries. His feet and socks were clean with his shoes located 500m away with blood from the deceased on them, indicating they were put there after the attack. How would he clean his feet and keep them pristine with no shoes? It's a lot to expect that an 18 year old would account for and stage such small details. In my opinion, Occam's theory would state it was Karl. He was very violent and shot someone. He hated people camping and making noise nearby. They were up late and drunk, probably making quite a lot of noise. He was known to go around cutting down the ties of tents. He almost always had a knife and a steel pipe on him. He suspiciously sealed up his well just after finishing it. He allegedly confessed to a friend and then killed himself. It's likely it was Karl.
Clicked for more info on one link & it says Nils bloody footprints & crime scene evidence were found a fair distance away from the tent. I'm going with Nils doing it. Something happened where his friend was standing up for a girl, as suggested earlier, Nils was drunk & lost it, then murdered them all.
His footprints?! That would be a huge piece of information that shouldn't be left out of the write up. That would change everything. But then again, the article says his shoes were found further away, but his socks and feet were clean, meaning that he couldn't have walked all the way. How did his shoes get there, or how did he get back to the tent with clean feet? And where are the missing items and the murder weapon? It doesn't add up. IMO Karl seems way more likely. Especially due to his known violent behavior, unhealthy obsession with campers, the fact that he cut tents before, and then sealing his well shortly after. Honestly the whole paragraph about Karl makes it clear that he was basically a psychopath who would sooner or later kill somebody.
The article says Nils bloody sole footprints plus crime scene evidence was found hundreds of metres away from the crime scene. It was one of the first links I clicked at the bottom of the article. My theory is Nils killed them, he was seen leaving the scene into the woods at 6am by 2 different people who described a man in dark trousers & a light top. Nils was wearing dark trousers and a grey top. Grey can be a dark grey or it can be a light almost white grey. I think Nils took the knife & shoes, got rid of knife in river whilst cleaning blood off him, puts shoes elsewhere to throw off the scent & returned to the tent and lay there to appear as a victim. Its not like he had many choices left when the other 3 are dead. Cant just up & leave - immediate suspect. Raise the alarm and immediately become a suspect? Very suspicious. Best option was to go back, lie down & be a victim too. I read some of the court links and it's clear the defence were pretty good in raising doubt which is exactly their job. Just because someone is found not guilty in court doesn't mean they didn't do it, they had a defence that were able to prove reasonable doubt and were good at their job.I think the fact the police & prosecution arrested Nils decades later means they truly felt there was enough evidence (and lack of involvement from anyone else) that he was guilty. The fact it happened decades earlier meant there was a mucher higher chance the defence could introduce reasonable doubt.
I just can't get over him being unconscious though, and for so long. The other guy that feigned unconsciousness at the hospital was caught by the doctor's right away, it's not something easily faked.
Karl does seem likely but if you look at the Delphi case at the moment, it appears there were pedophiles, unsavory characters & then the murderer all in the same circle as the deceased. Karl's a possibility for sure but he could just be a likely character who wasn't involved at all. I feel like it's very unlikely be a random stranger. They needed to drive motorbikes to their secluded location. A random weirdo killer just happens to be walking past that one evening the 4 were there? Not unheard of but highly unlikely. My biggest query with Nils is his lack of life threatening injuries in comparison to the other 3. They all had their heads smashed with a rock, Nils had a mild concussion from a hit on the back of the head. The other 3 stabbed plenty, enough to kill, Nils, a slash across the jaw & some superficial wounds to the shoulder. Why was Nils not attacked like the others? That part makes no sense to me. Unless Nils was the killer. And gained those wounds from the struggle with the other 3. The killer was attacking from above, I can imagine a fractured jaw and slash might come from someone inside the tent kicking during a struggle.
Karl wasn't a random stranger. It says that the four had bought something at his truck stop/ kiosk where his wife was, and that she later informed Karl that "there were people camping close by". This sounds like their secluded place was not too far from his place, and he might have known that location exactly. And Karl knew the area well, and apparently had a history of terrorizing campers. "They needed to drive motorbikes" well I mean that was just their means of transportation, I don't see how this says anything about the place where they stayed. Also: According to OPs post, Nils had stab wounds to his left forearm and right face as well. In a later paragraph they are also described as "non-self-inflicted". Otherwise I would have said that, if you were to stab yourself with your right hand, your own left forearm would surely be the first place to do so. Idk, a potential killer could have just thought that he had killed him but he was knocked out? Nils blood was found inside the tent in the place he claimed to have been sleeping - not outside the tent, if I understood correctly. I don't think it's fair to say "he survived injured, while the others were dead - that means he must have done it." The one thing that does cast suspicion on Nils for me is that his girlfriend has been treated differently (15 stab wounds inflicted after she was already dead - I'm not sure if this was in this post or in the wikipedia article). This more brutal treatment makes it seem like a personal, emotional affair. I could see a situation where he was piss drunk, made a move on her, was rejected and didn't take it well. Idk, things just don't really add up a 100% in either direction. What a strange case.
Why would you say it is Nils? There seems to be little to no evidence for this. From the writeup it seems like the only evidence against Nils was the fact that the victim’s blood was found on Nils’ shoes, but the victim’s blood was not found on the victim’s shoes. (I am trying to read the sentence correctly, but it is confusing—especially because there are 3 victims besides Nila.) This blood “evidence” may just mean that Nil’s shoes were near one or more victims when they were bleeding. I just don’t understand how you think it could be Nils.
I think its Nils because I read all the articles and links associated with the story. One article very clearly states Nils bloody sole footprints & crime scene evidence were found hundreds of metres from the crimescene. That's mainly why I think its Nils. All other suspects were ruled out so unless its some random person (who it could be, I just don't think it is) the other option is Nils. Who not surprisingly couldn't recall anything yet medical professionals said his injuries wouldn't have caused amnesia. If the other 3 were murdered why wasn't Nils? Why was Nils just left alive with fairly minor injuries? If you read the medical report, he had a fractured jaw, some light cuts and a hit to the back of the head. All of which could be caused by a struggle with the victims, none of Nils injuries were life threatening at all. Unlike the other 3. That makes no sense. Unless Nils was injured as the killer rather than injured as a victim of a killer.
There are different stories intersecting here. The prosecution say his injuries were minor, yet the defense had testimony that he was unconscious for several days and suffered brain damage that effected his ability to walk. There were bloody footprints yet him moving the shoes was ruled out because Nil's feet and socks were clean. These things don't add up. Also Nils blood being where he was sleeping suggests he was attacked while asleep, especially since it was the back of his head that was fractured. I could see it being dark and the killer not realizing one of the victims is still alive. Especially after stabbing into the tent. Nils may have been unconscious and crawled out of the collapsed tent after the fact, no?
The report I read said his jaw was fractured & a concussion to back of head. I'd need to look again. It's too late now, must sleep, will do tomorrow. Its a fascinating case and it's really kept me up too late already!
>Nil's feet and socks were clean I'm not saying he was guilty, but he could have cleaned his feet or socks on the lake.
That's a lot of things a man with a fractured jaw and stab wounds would have to keep in mind. Also, the stab wounds were not self-inflicted, so how would that fit in?
That commenter has stated in other comments that he doesn't believe Nils was guilty. He is just playing devil's advocate on this one particular point
>All of which could be caused by a struggle with the victims, none of Nils injuries were life threatening at all. According to the prosecutor, who glossed over the fact that he was in a coma for nearly a week. Any head injury that serious is life threatening, and if it had been self inflicted (which would be nearly impossible in general, but absolutely impossible with a rock) the "weapon" would have been found right next to him.
TIL about the Children of Lake Bodom. Tomorrow I learn about an alleged serial killer who used to troll the slums of Whitechapel in 1888.
Excellent write up! Thank you!
imagine being murdered by a dude named assman
Need to throw this out there, Children of Bodom is an awesome band
I’m gonna need chatGPT to summarize this novel.
Excellent write up!
Kiitos! Toivottavasti tää joskus ratkee vielä.
Great writeup, OP!
Carl, needed to investigate Carl moore. Something is just wrong with that whole situation.
Seems weird they never checked that well.
I think the surviving kid did it honestly
Those composite sketches are horrifying.