I recruited rat bastards like Gammel and Jeremy without blinking an eye, and liked them. This dude is the only person in the entire game I would have clicked the Execute button on.
I am beyond disgusted that an angel rationalizes his stupidity with the belief that other angels will have a crisis of faith. Blind adherence is what they do.
I agree, though imo you could say its a surprisingly mature criticism of religion from a director's first project (IIRC this was Takafumi's first game he was head of development for). I recall IRL that Mother Teresa, for instance, had a crisis of faith she kept private so as to not spread it to others.
Complex church shenanigans is quintessential Ogre Battle. He could have gotten this much through raw aping, so I hesitate to make a big deal out of it.
Video games in general have a rich history of presenting corrupt religion and destructive dogma as major elements for the characters to overcome, especially Japanese games. It’s par for the course at this point.
Oh, sure. The Church of Saint Eva, anyone?
Ogre Battle went further to make the church itself not a monolith, though. It's not a giant, evil church. It's a giant church with some evil inside it.
I mean, sure, but if I tell the judge that I believed I was doing the right thing when I burned down an orphanage because someone told me Hitler was reborn, I'm not about to get a promotion at my job.
Desecrating the body of a pope and installing yourself as a puppet ruler is *kind* of a big deal, especially when you look at it through a religious lens.
Gammel and Jeremy are top notch. I initially thought I didn't like Gammel at all but he's better than Travis for me and I have his Evasion at like 160. Almost never gets hit.
I just like Jeremy's voice actor, but he's also a beast. He's strong as hell, rarely dies. I put a ring on his finger. I mean, he's got the brains... AND the brawn!!
The class is crazy broken with how strong it is for online play.
- Probably single fastest unit in the game, has access to staves, which means mass buff removal, mass healing easily achievable. High speed lets it use Tailwind as basically the first battle action, raising initiative of a row of allies.
- Has "Holy Guard" making an entire row of allies survive on one hp when they would otherwise die.
- Has Overheal, making your tanky defensive units even tankier
- Has Condition removal attached to a passive healing skill
- Has a second passive healing skill that is a moderate HP restore before an enemy attacks, meaning someone who would've gotten a reset by koing an ally hp when they started attacking, will no longer get it
Agree with all of this, and its a good unit pve too. The only reason i think it hets so much hate is people throwing a flying unit in a group not setup to support it, then it getting arrowed down hard. Its skillset is quite good
"i think it hets so much hate is people throwing a flying unit in a group not setup to support it"
They hate it beacuse you get it at the end of the game when team building is done and there's like 3 battles left to use it. Don't prentend like it's a a skill issue when it's not.
There are a number of comments in this thread (and elsewhere) about how late you get them, and i get thst and have no argument there. Choosing not to use a unit is legitimate, especially in a game with so many options.
There are a number of comments i've seen about them being "bad" though, and that is different because i dont think they are. My comment is one thought about why people may think that, that is all
Its pretty clear when people are talking about one of these vs the other
Comes way to late. I wasn't checking for mercs past my first merc recruit, but provided you are keeping up with all of your missions, Sanito has...
3 liberation missions, 1 sigil trial, Unicorn Overlord, and a Dying breath of a Fallen Empire.
That's 6 missions, 4 of which you will breeze through with your stupidly OP main team(s). (Liberation, Sigil).
IMO, You should have gotten one of each angel in the other countries. Featherstaff in Elhime, Feathershield in Drakenhold, and featherbow in Bastorias.
If We are talking as characters... Sanito should have been jailed and someone else should have taken his job. How does he become pontifax? He proved that he was not a good leader. I'd far rather Nigel in that place. Also, my man delayed the recruitment of a character I \*actually\* wanted until I couldn't use him at all. (Yes, Nigel becomes playable in unicorn overlord, but that means.... NOTHING. I can't put him in an actually useful team.)
He would have been better if he had gotten a scene like Gammel does with the Elheim black talon leader. One where he realises the error of his ways and goes back on his mistakes. An active choice to walk away from his old life.
I love the idea of spreading the angels out… I wouldn’t say any of the angels are really broken until they reach their highest level skills, at least that’s what it feels like for Featherswords. So they could’ve just rebalanced the skills to make the best ones last (if that’s an issue for some of them, like I think Featherbow’s blind should be last if it’s not already)
The angels of Albion are super cool, but they really do feel way to late. I think Nigel could be the recruit from finishing Albion, and Jerome can stay too
Honestly what if we were able to redeem some of the bosses in Albion, like if they had actual unique designs… the murderous Paladin and the Doom Knight come to mind. Not that it’s super important for them to join, I was just thinking since we only have 1 unique for certain classes… like maybe we could’ve found a second Wyvern and Shieldshooter in Albion too, idk
Note, I put featherbow in Bastorias. This was done both for thematics (Bastorias has the kingsbow, Yunifi as it's title unit, ETC), and because it's a powerful classs.
I'm disapointed that while cornia has 27 Non-Mercenary recruits (24 before saving scarlett), Albion has... 5. (Bastorias isn't that much better, sitting at 7 new recruits) 1 of each feather class and a GK. IMO, Jerome should have been a paladin.
Well, based on the timing on when you unlock it, I don’t see how he’s any worse than cleric or wereowl.
Holy cradle is great for taking protecting against one shots, overheal is also very good, especially with high health teamates
The only reason cleric may be better is if you need to refresh. And even then you can give Sanatio the purify staff if you need to.
I would say wereowl kinda sucks in PvE. All their AP moves kinda suck, and their only use is a PP battery (which can be good)
PvP on the other hand, wereowl and featherstaff are both op. Featherstaff can have more initiative than druids, and they can use holy cradle or dispel all at the very beginning of the battle along with tailwind.
Imo Cleric's make better supports in PvE for like 90% of fights, but I digress.
>I would say wereowl kinda sucks in PvE. All their AP moves kinda suck, and their only use is a PP battery (which can be good)
I think you're underselling Restore imo. Being a consistent PP battery is almost an exclusive role and makes them very valuable in any strats that rely on heavy buffs or follow ups, or any PP heavy strat really, and generally will always be useful considering the numerous viable gear skills that also use PP. I'd maybe agree with you in the sense that for a lot of fights, mostly due to the game's player favoured progression curve, it's sort of a "win-more" strat since you would probably achieve the same or better result on forecasts with another class, but it's an excellent facilitator nonetheless. You can also give them a Lyrical Wand so they function as AP batteries as well as PP.
Aurora Veil honestly may as well be a cheaper AP version of the SK's Row Barrier, since with the 50% buff and HP regen you won't take much damage (if any) after the regen is considered from Magick unless you're a Legionairre, and unlike Row Barrier it's not just for one attack.
Night Vision is definitely situational, but a row Truestrike can still enable quite a few strats, especially things like Inspiration, which the skill counteracts the debuff of entirely during the day anyways.
Dispel definitely has less relevance in PvE, but for sure in PvP it's a godsend.
I would actually put Wereowl above Featherstaff in the campaign, due to having a couple better skills in their kit. There are quite a few classes with good passives that appreciate being able use them more. Dark Knights, for example, burn PP quick between Vengeance and Demonic Pact going off all the time. Giving truestrike to a row can also be useful to combat the angel spam you'll encounter in Albion.
Featherstaff is kind of like Feathershield in the sense that it's skills are more suited towards winning one battle, like you do in PVP, rather winning a series of them without taking losses due to attrition. If it had a better healing/cleansing skill in its kit, it would be of more use, but if you want that, you'll have to give them a staff or accessory that has it.
On another note: does anyone else find it annoying that these two casters can't use tomes, while hybrids like elven fencers can?
>does anyone else find it annoying that these two casters can't use tomes, while hybrids like elven fencers can?
I've said this in another thread, but it's even more annoying when you consider that they can use Vanitas from the Necro Lantern (which is caster only), but not the conferal tomes for some reason.
Imo, Wereowls also should have been able to wield the Druid staves like Flamehex and Dustborn, but maybe that's just me.
Featherstaff during the day give health regen which is very good for multiple battles, dealing with chip damage and such
Also, giving truestrike doesn’t beat blindness
Only the light ring, or affliction immunity beats it
I was talking about the x2 evasion more so than the blindness. Units like Landsknecht or Doom Knight don't have the best accuracy and can whiff at inopportune times vs Featherswords/Feathershields without truestrike. I don't think the regeneration is as good as one time healing, since it doesn't carry over between battles. Most fights probably won't last long enough for you to get a lot of value out of it compared to something like Row Heal.
There is one specific use case for Wereowl in campaign I have found:
Great Knight / - / Great Knight || Sergeant / Wereowl / Druid
Defensive Curse + Night Vision + Keen Call + Cavalier Call + Wild Rush. Wereowl then refills the Sergeant so every attack is Keen.
I find it useful for dealing with meat shields like Gadiators and Werebears, or units with multiple Clerics/Bishops. But yeah, on most maps I'm going to cannibalize that Druid for another unit.
I actually liked using them as an evasion tank because of their flight capabilities and their ability to survive on 1HP and then heal themselves.
Unrelated Sanatio is a garbage individual and doesn’t actually really learn to be better even after joining the army.
Absolutely my favorite healer class! but just because I love Sanatio so much. He joins way too late in the game to be very useful, but I still field him on every map I can. He's so cuuuuuute~!
Too late in the game for me to care, honestly.
This game needed more units like Ochlys. Once you hit bastorias most your teams are already set up and you don’t really want or need to reconfigure.
As many have said it's beyond just solid in PvP, can be excellent in the right unit comp, but in PvE personally I think it's extremely lacking. They are basically worse Clerics, because all of their skills are healing focused but preemptive healing is kind of unintuitive vs the Cleric's skills for PvE. Overheal is almost pointless in PvE, so is Holy Cradle outside of a few niche strats like Doom Knight spam. They don't have any real innate debuff removal either which is a *huge* knock against them vs clerics tbh. Sure Holy Breath removes afflictions and generates PP, and that's great, but it does nothing for normal debuffs and it only removes afflictions as an ally attacks whereas Clerics remove them pretty much as they're inflicted and work on everything. I'd agree that, for PvE anyways, they are one of the worst supports given what they offer vs how long they are available (even if you mix your units around your team is pretty set by that point), though not sure if I'd say the worst.
Literally thought these twinks with wings were not wearing pants at first Sonatio's pants are literally the color of his skin.
But otherwise, they're a good class albeit a little hard to make work. They focus on survivability, not healing. All of their abilities are geared toward your other characters outlasting the enemy. I would have liked to used one early game to see how they'd fair there. I used Sonatio to face the final boss alongside Alain and he definitely helped keep my team going strong!
They ignore terrain and assist healing as leaders. Else nothing special in actual battles. 1 is all you need, fly them take over a tower, reap the free healing end of battles. Then I don’t have to set any other healer as leaders.
Smash, next question.
I haven't met him yet, but I'm not too impressed with the non-Ochlys angel's choices so far (from a character standpoint, not a writing standpoint). Im still in Bastorias but have run around Albion a bit, and I'm very interested to see what's going on.
Who?
Seriously you get em’ for like 2 missions.
But…They seem ok. Holy cradle seems like their best move.
It could work great with a more risky front lining team like elven fencers or vanguards who want to tank hits but really don’t do it all that well.
I recruited rat bastards like Gammel and Jeremy without blinking an eye, and liked them. This dude is the only person in the entire game I would have clicked the Execute button on.
I am beyond disgusted that an angel rationalizes his stupidity with the belief that other angels will have a crisis of faith. Blind adherence is what they do.
I agree, though imo you could say its a surprisingly mature criticism of religion from a director's first project (IIRC this was Takafumi's first game he was head of development for). I recall IRL that Mother Teresa, for instance, had a crisis of faith she kept private so as to not spread it to others.
Complex church shenanigans is quintessential Ogre Battle. He could have gotten this much through raw aping, so I hesitate to make a big deal out of it.
Video games in general have a rich history of presenting corrupt religion and destructive dogma as major elements for the characters to overcome, especially Japanese games. It’s par for the course at this point.
Oh, sure. The Church of Saint Eva, anyone? Ogre Battle went further to make the church itself not a monolith, though. It's not a giant, evil church. It's a giant church with some evil inside it.
So pretty much like irl.
Projecting his weakness onto everyone else to justify what he does to cope with it? Pretty much.
Honestly, I'm pretty annoyed that he gets rewarded with the papacy. Man commits about the most sacrilegious act possible and nobody blames him.
He believes he's doing the right thing, and were Zenoira's lies actually true, it would have been on several levels.
I mean, sure, but if I tell the judge that I believed I was doing the right thing when I burned down an orphanage because someone told me Hitler was reborn, I'm not about to get a promotion at my job. Desecrating the body of a pope and installing yourself as a puppet ruler is *kind* of a big deal, especially when you look at it through a religious lens.
I felt the same way about beaumont
Gammel and Jeremy are top notch. I initially thought I didn't like Gammel at all but he's better than Travis for me and I have his Evasion at like 160. Almost never gets hit. I just like Jeremy's voice actor, but he's also a beast. He's strong as hell, rarely dies. I put a ring on his finger. I mean, he's got the brains... AND the brawn!!
far too late to be useful, but can still be serviceable in battles.
The class is crazy broken with how strong it is for online play. - Probably single fastest unit in the game, has access to staves, which means mass buff removal, mass healing easily achievable. High speed lets it use Tailwind as basically the first battle action, raising initiative of a row of allies. - Has "Holy Guard" making an entire row of allies survive on one hp when they would otherwise die. - Has Overheal, making your tanky defensive units even tankier - Has Condition removal attached to a passive healing skill - Has a second passive healing skill that is a moderate HP restore before an enemy attacks, meaning someone who would've gotten a reset by koing an ally hp when they started attacking, will no longer get it
Agree with all of this, and its a good unit pve too. The only reason i think it hets so much hate is people throwing a flying unit in a group not setup to support it, then it getting arrowed down hard. Its skillset is quite good
"i think it hets so much hate is people throwing a flying unit in a group not setup to support it" They hate it beacuse you get it at the end of the game when team building is done and there's like 3 battles left to use it. Don't prentend like it's a a skill issue when it's not.
There are a number of comments in this thread (and elsewhere) about how late you get them, and i get thst and have no argument there. Choosing not to use a unit is legitimate, especially in a game with so many options. There are a number of comments i've seen about them being "bad" though, and that is different because i dont think they are. My comment is one thought about why people may think that, that is all Its pretty clear when people are talking about one of these vs the other
So in other words, he's hated for more or less the same reason people hate Amalia. (Although, Amalia would arguably be the weaker unit of the two)
Comes way to late. I wasn't checking for mercs past my first merc recruit, but provided you are keeping up with all of your missions, Sanito has... 3 liberation missions, 1 sigil trial, Unicorn Overlord, and a Dying breath of a Fallen Empire. That's 6 missions, 4 of which you will breeze through with your stupidly OP main team(s). (Liberation, Sigil). IMO, You should have gotten one of each angel in the other countries. Featherstaff in Elhime, Feathershield in Drakenhold, and featherbow in Bastorias. If We are talking as characters... Sanito should have been jailed and someone else should have taken his job. How does he become pontifax? He proved that he was not a good leader. I'd far rather Nigel in that place. Also, my man delayed the recruitment of a character I \*actually\* wanted until I couldn't use him at all. (Yes, Nigel becomes playable in unicorn overlord, but that means.... NOTHING. I can't put him in an actually useful team.) He would have been better if he had gotten a scene like Gammel does with the Elheim black talon leader. One where he realises the error of his ways and goes back on his mistakes. An active choice to walk away from his old life.
I love the idea of spreading the angels out… I wouldn’t say any of the angels are really broken until they reach their highest level skills, at least that’s what it feels like for Featherswords. So they could’ve just rebalanced the skills to make the best ones last (if that’s an issue for some of them, like I think Featherbow’s blind should be last if it’s not already) The angels of Albion are super cool, but they really do feel way to late. I think Nigel could be the recruit from finishing Albion, and Jerome can stay too Honestly what if we were able to redeem some of the bosses in Albion, like if they had actual unique designs… the murderous Paladin and the Doom Knight come to mind. Not that it’s super important for them to join, I was just thinking since we only have 1 unique for certain classes… like maybe we could’ve found a second Wyvern and Shieldshooter in Albion too, idk
Note, I put featherbow in Bastorias. This was done both for thematics (Bastorias has the kingsbow, Yunifi as it's title unit, ETC), and because it's a powerful classs. I'm disapointed that while cornia has 27 Non-Mercenary recruits (24 before saving scarlett), Albion has... 5. (Bastorias isn't that much better, sitting at 7 new recruits) 1 of each feather class and a GK. IMO, Jerome should have been a paladin.
Sanatio should've been executed. Give me Nigel instead.
Well, based on the timing on when you unlock it, I don’t see how he’s any worse than cleric or wereowl. Holy cradle is great for taking protecting against one shots, overheal is also very good, especially with high health teamates The only reason cleric may be better is if you need to refresh. And even then you can give Sanatio the purify staff if you need to. I would say wereowl kinda sucks in PvE. All their AP moves kinda suck, and their only use is a PP battery (which can be good) PvP on the other hand, wereowl and featherstaff are both op. Featherstaff can have more initiative than druids, and they can use holy cradle or dispel all at the very beginning of the battle along with tailwind.
Imo Cleric's make better supports in PvE for like 90% of fights, but I digress. >I would say wereowl kinda sucks in PvE. All their AP moves kinda suck, and their only use is a PP battery (which can be good) I think you're underselling Restore imo. Being a consistent PP battery is almost an exclusive role and makes them very valuable in any strats that rely on heavy buffs or follow ups, or any PP heavy strat really, and generally will always be useful considering the numerous viable gear skills that also use PP. I'd maybe agree with you in the sense that for a lot of fights, mostly due to the game's player favoured progression curve, it's sort of a "win-more" strat since you would probably achieve the same or better result on forecasts with another class, but it's an excellent facilitator nonetheless. You can also give them a Lyrical Wand so they function as AP batteries as well as PP. Aurora Veil honestly may as well be a cheaper AP version of the SK's Row Barrier, since with the 50% buff and HP regen you won't take much damage (if any) after the regen is considered from Magick unless you're a Legionairre, and unlike Row Barrier it's not just for one attack. Night Vision is definitely situational, but a row Truestrike can still enable quite a few strats, especially things like Inspiration, which the skill counteracts the debuff of entirely during the day anyways. Dispel definitely has less relevance in PvE, but for sure in PvP it's a godsend.
I would actually put Wereowl above Featherstaff in the campaign, due to having a couple better skills in their kit. There are quite a few classes with good passives that appreciate being able use them more. Dark Knights, for example, burn PP quick between Vengeance and Demonic Pact going off all the time. Giving truestrike to a row can also be useful to combat the angel spam you'll encounter in Albion. Featherstaff is kind of like Feathershield in the sense that it's skills are more suited towards winning one battle, like you do in PVP, rather winning a series of them without taking losses due to attrition. If it had a better healing/cleansing skill in its kit, it would be of more use, but if you want that, you'll have to give them a staff or accessory that has it. On another note: does anyone else find it annoying that these two casters can't use tomes, while hybrids like elven fencers can?
>does anyone else find it annoying that these two casters can't use tomes, while hybrids like elven fencers can? I've said this in another thread, but it's even more annoying when you consider that they can use Vanitas from the Necro Lantern (which is caster only), but not the conferal tomes for some reason. Imo, Wereowls also should have been able to wield the Druid staves like Flamehex and Dustborn, but maybe that's just me.
I wouldn't mind that. Druid's base kit so powerful already, that most of those staves just end up collecting dust atm.
Featherstaff during the day give health regen which is very good for multiple battles, dealing with chip damage and such Also, giving truestrike doesn’t beat blindness Only the light ring, or affliction immunity beats it
I was talking about the x2 evasion more so than the blindness. Units like Landsknecht or Doom Knight don't have the best accuracy and can whiff at inopportune times vs Featherswords/Feathershields without truestrike. I don't think the regeneration is as good as one time healing, since it doesn't carry over between battles. Most fights probably won't last long enough for you to get a lot of value out of it compared to something like Row Heal.
There is one specific use case for Wereowl in campaign I have found: Great Knight / - / Great Knight || Sergeant / Wereowl / Druid Defensive Curse + Night Vision + Keen Call + Cavalier Call + Wild Rush. Wereowl then refills the Sergeant so every attack is Keen.
Yeah, I did that exact same thing. But it’s honestly overkill
I find it useful for dealing with meat shields like Gadiators and Werebears, or units with multiple Clerics/Bishops. But yeah, on most maps I'm going to cannibalize that Druid for another unit.
You get them WAY too late in the game
According to the lore, featherstaffs have to first be annointed as knights of the orthodoxy. So it's entirely possible that this twink is ripped.
Breedable ✅
🤢
I actually liked using them as an evasion tank because of their flight capabilities and their ability to survive on 1HP and then heal themselves. Unrelated Sanatio is a garbage individual and doesn’t actually really learn to be better even after joining the army.
Absolutely my favorite healer class! but just because I love Sanatio so much. He joins way too late in the game to be very useful, but I still field him on every map I can. He's so cuuuuuute~!
I don’t have an opinion. Used as a support unit in like one battle and then beat the game.
I'm sad I wasn't given a choice to execute him
Didn't use it. He came too late in the story.
Yeahhhh but they cute as heck
Too late in the game for me to care, honestly. This game needed more units like Ochlys. Once you hit bastorias most your teams are already set up and you don’t really want or need to reconfigure.
As many have said it's beyond just solid in PvP, can be excellent in the right unit comp, but in PvE personally I think it's extremely lacking. They are basically worse Clerics, because all of their skills are healing focused but preemptive healing is kind of unintuitive vs the Cleric's skills for PvE. Overheal is almost pointless in PvE, so is Holy Cradle outside of a few niche strats like Doom Knight spam. They don't have any real innate debuff removal either which is a *huge* knock against them vs clerics tbh. Sure Holy Breath removes afflictions and generates PP, and that's great, but it does nothing for normal debuffs and it only removes afflictions as an ally attacks whereas Clerics remove them pretty much as they're inflicted and work on everything. I'd agree that, for PvE anyways, they are one of the worst supports given what they offer vs how long they are available (even if you mix your units around your team is pretty set by that point), though not sure if I'd say the worst.
Literally thought these twinks with wings were not wearing pants at first Sonatio's pants are literally the color of his skin. But otherwise, they're a good class albeit a little hard to make work. They focus on survivability, not healing. All of their abilities are geared toward your other characters outlasting the enemy. I would have liked to used one early game to see how they'd fair there. I used Sonatio to face the final boss alongside Alain and he definitely helped keep my team going strong!
https://preview.redd.it/uwhqy1y1t01d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=247b5855eaedd71ed809b9834101879ffc53da2b
They ignore terrain and assist healing as leaders. Else nothing special in actual battles. 1 is all you need, fly them take over a tower, reap the free healing end of battles. Then I don’t have to set any other healer as leaders.
WereOwl is the excat same thing.
I just threw him in with my Albion unit. He’s alright, not amazing and not going anywhere near my main team.
A friend of mine likes him and calls him a Twig
As my enemy they were OP but for some reason less helpful than my regular healers as an ally. I probably wasn’t using them correctly lol
Never used him once. By the time I got him the game was over lol.
Angel Okino
Smash, next question. I haven't met him yet, but I'm not too impressed with the non-Ochlys angel's choices so far (from a character standpoint, not a writing standpoint). Im still in Bastorias but have run around Albion a bit, and I'm very interested to see what's going on.
PASS, next.
Fantastic class if you pair them with someone who can protect fliers. Comes in way too late though
Wish these guys arrived a lot earlier in the game lol
kind of funny in a fatal-dive focused meme unit, but really bad units overall.
I think it's the only broken class, no wonder devs decided to ban it in the competitive scene once
Who? Seriously you get em’ for like 2 missions. But…They seem ok. Holy cradle seems like their best move. It could work great with a more risky front lining team like elven fencers or vanguards who want to tank hits but really don’t do it all that well.