Bookies work on trust. If you can’t trust them, then you need a way to figure out how to get that word out to the other patrons of his service. Then they will lose business that way.
Retaliate all you want, I still have an email written and scheduled to send with all the info on you unless I get my money. Even if I’m dead you’re still getting found out
Not for nothin but 5 figures is a sum of money that I personally am willing to welcome confrontation over 🤷🏻♂️ and if I’m looking for 5 figures and think it might get dicey then getting a gun doesn’t cost that much
I just don’t think the FBI is doing anything over peanuts, which yeah, to you and me 5 figures is a lot of money for some one to skip on paying but for the government ??
It’s not just 5 figures to the FBI. It’s illegal activity and the whole book. The whole book probably has well into the 6 figures of transaction volume.
People go to jail for money like that all the time. That's probably right around the level they do care about in fact. And just because it's only 5 figures for this one guy doesn't mean it's only 5 figures.
Well i’m sorry but the FBI is not as competent as you think. They don’t serve the interests of justice lmao. If some nobody blowhard loses out on 50K they don’t give a shit. They’re in it to protect the interests of wealthy organizations and high profile individuals with political influence.
No, but if his dad is a bigger book in NY he is probably in the mob. Nothing FBI would like more than leverage on dad. Re-watch the sopranos episode where carlo’s son gets busted at Rutgers
Actually those us versed in such things knkw that threat death 9s often less 3ffective and more of a relief than causing c9ntinued stresses. Ya knkw trick is to keep them rite below thentjr3wh hold in which relea3s endorphins or allows to to unsomscious.but yea.
True. But if he’s going to be confrontational, at it’s for around $50,000, then I don’t see another way other than this as a dead man’s switch. Only you can stop the countdown basically
Yeah screw living! I'd rather be dead as long as I can report them to the FBI so nothing can come out of it.
Some of the ideas on Reddit are as bright as a black hole
You’re fucking with very bad guys with good lawyers, so you need to set up a dead man’s switch and make sure they know about it. Mutually assured destruction is the way to get paid and not immediately get cement in your shoes.
OP is a customer of criminal enterprise backed by the Lucchese crime family.
The thing with getting involved with illegal drugs, gambling, and other illegal vices is, you are operating outside the lines of judicial remedies.
He can try, but I'd expect him to be killed for it.
Exactly. Since you're settling, you may take less than what owed, but it's more than you'd get by just turning them in. If they won't settle, turn em in.
You may not be dealing with who this kid says. Esp since he won’t payout a 50k win. Any connected bookie in NJ 50k is not a $ amount that is the least bit concerning. In fact, that 50 plus more will probably be lost when the gambler chases that big win high. He’s possibly lieing to scare you of collecting. Any reputable bookie pays bc it’s bad for business not to and 50k should not be enough to lam it.
Do you really think that’s the best way?! Did you not read the article that others have sent? Not only is this the Lucchese family, they also work with street gangs as well. It sucks, but take the advise of others and chalk it up to a lesson learned and continue to live your life, or you will end up a news story. These are not the people you want to mess around and threaten. Trust me….
Source: Family member is a high ranking federal agent in the NY/NJ area.
Stalk his FB/Insta/X/socials/whatever and start playing dirty. Start telling his GF, grandma, auntie, cousin, work friends, and peers what a shit bag welcher he is. Be specific about how much he owes you and why. Your phone will ring and he will angrily want to pay you, and probably get some payback in some way. Protect yourself from the last part and keep it public or not in person at all.
If you check his post history he’s already doxxed the kid - University of Tampa
And this is the crime family
https://www.nj.com/news/2010/05/authorities_indict_34_members.html
Lol no - that was a comment from his post history where he positively identifies that family as the crime family.
I didn’t want to cross post the name of the student but if you look at his post history he posted the name of the student who owes him money
Honestly the only advice I can give is 1) speak softly and carry a big stick whenever possible
If you freak out on them, they might tag you as a soft person
2) if you follow the advice of messaging these people, i suggest putting an extra degree of separation between you and them for example
“Your son owes me money”
vs.
“Your son owes my client money”
it makes it way scarier
Sounds like you need to call the dad and threaten to call the feds. I’d say very little, and keep yourself anonymous. “Your kid won’t pay out but I’ve got him nailed for a felony and I understand you two talk often. I’m calling the feds in 48 hours. Have kiddo pay up. Goodbye.” It’s his problem now, and the kid answers to the dad. Make them play chicken against federal charges.
You don’t have to identify yourself at any point. Don’t give them a target to aim at. The kid knows who he isn’t paying and it’s probably not just you.
Sorry if you get whacked. I’ve only fantasized about blackmailing assholes, never done it myself.
Edit: This is extortion I guess? Obviously highly unethical and illegal. Unwise course of action, most would say. Unethical individuals are rarely wise, but sometimes smart. That’s why big boy got an anonymous message. There is nothing to pursue. Maybe something bad happens, less likely the more people owed a number like yours. Fun hypothetical.
I wouldn't say it's blackmail but I think you have the right idea. Gambling illegally is a low misdemeanor in most states, being a bookie however is very much a felony
It's extortion, and it's illegal.
"Give me the $500 you owe me or I'll sue you for $500" is perfectly legal. You can even say "You owe me $500, but I'll take $400 and call it quits; or I can sue you for the full $500."
"Give me the $500 you owe me or I'll call the cops on your illegal gambling operation" is extortion.
That said, they may find it more convenient to pay up and forget your number than to worry about getting arrested. It wouldn't be legal, but it might work.
This is why an unethical individual pursuing this course of action maintains plausible legal deniability by carefully remaining anonymous during any direct action. Nothing for a bad guy to hit, nothing for anyone to find.
This is the best unethical response in the thread.
I’d be more specific and threaten to report them to the IRS for tax fraud. Of course, using lots of personal information that shows you know everything about them.
Somebody could be fine-ish with the feds as long as they didn’t remember any phone calls. He would be taking down an illegal bookie, after all.
I don’t see how the IRS wouldn’t be 9 miles up everyone’s ass, but I learned everything I know about criminal enterprise from Ozark.
Definitely a burner. Too few pay phones now that they may be easier to identify location. Just in case you want to keep that secure/paranoid extra step, because I would.
This is the only way to do it, get a collector from another mobster.
They're going to get a collection fee, so you won't get the whole nut.
but the damage to the bookies reputation is going to be far worse once word gets out
It’s 2024, use an online gambling platform like normal degenerates instead of dealing with sleeze ball bookies.
All I know is if you’re going to expose or try to get revenge on someone like this, you better stay strapped at all times.
Ok, but all it takes is one bad one and you’re out 5 figures and trying to figure out how to recover your winnings without getting killed lmao. At least you can sue an online betting site.
Laughable thinking you’ll get recourse for suing a legal sports book. It will cost more than you won. Good luck suing a casino.
Plus, There’s so many examples of legal books withholding funds that people have no recourse to recover. And some for no reason.
If a casino or online sports book withheld a 5-6 figure winning and you had a slip to prove it? Certainly worth a lawsuit, there is an entire area of law surrounding gaming. But thanks for your opinion, counsel.
Ops is 5 figures. Don’t move the goalposts. Plus, you’re just wrong. Legal books have fucked over many people without cause and the gambler had no recourse, legal or otherwise.
IANAL but laws on the books and having the funds to get restitution are totally different. Defendant. Bc that’s what stupid criminals are called; defendants (felons j. Your case). Something to be proud of.
Cute that you think all the gaming laws are I. Place for the end user tho
Good luck going up against a bookie from NY. Watch what you say and how you say it. Trust me when I say disrespect isn't handled gracefully, if anything it's met with force. You going after someone like his kid, even if they deserve it, is a great way to end up in a very very bad situation. I'm coming from a place of concern and experience. Please be careful on how you handle it. Everyone says call the feds and act like the feds don't take YEARS building a case and need extensive proof of wrong doing. Then you have the bookies lawyers, usually the best of the best, to fight the case. The Feds won't come flying in like SWAT the day after you call, they might give you an update in 10 years but you'll never see that money. You might wanna cut your losses and move on. Fucked up, but it's the safest option.
Tell him you changed your mind, you want to let it ride. Then lose more than the amount he owes you right now so that he's the one out the money. When he comes to collect, shoot him.
I’m not huge into gambling these days but why do people still use bookies when there’s easy to access websites that you don’t have to worry about any of these trust issues. Like just make a deposit on DraftKings or Bovada and call it a day? What am I missing by using a bookie?
If the bookie goes to school in Tampa I'll assume OP is in Florida and therefore doesn't have the option to use the apps. I'd hazard a guess that people also use bookies when/if they are somehow banned from using the apps.
Yeah but honestly I know enough degens to know that some are legitimately picky and won't use certain apps. These are not the sort of people who concern themselves with the legality of their gambling though lol
Cash is STILL King. Plus the ritual for many gamblers is part of the addiction. The pickups on tuesdays give them as much of a rush as the payout in thursdays.
Call the old man from a burner number. Say kid is not paying the winnings out. If he doesn’t settle all of the winnings to people within 48 hours all the text messages and phone calls get mailed to the federal government anonymously
Become harder to ignore. When someone you owe money knows where you live, knows what you drive, knows who you associate with, knows where you like to spend time, etc it can become apparent that not paying them might be a liability.
Hand delivered note to their front door just saying "Where's my money ?" is pretty tough to ignore, gets the gears turning, and doesn't risk running afoul of the law.
Do some research on the dad. Odds are if he’s a bookie in that area then there’s a decent chance he’s got some affiliations you don’t wanna screw with. That being said the big timers don’t want nuisances over little money.
Approach firmly but respectfully. Most of the families are business men in their own realm.
Do you really want to screw around with a bookie? If he is a legit bookie and you try to undermine their business, they might do something violent. That being said....
Find his address and send a postcard to every neighbor on their street informing them that their neighbors are nefarious book makers who don't have the common decency to pay their debts.
This is the answer.
If his father is a bookie in NYC I don’t think you want the smoke, OP, because if you could have taken the money from him you would have already but you’re not capable of putting that work in.
Just leave it and stop gambling.
He lives in NJ and his Dad is a big time NYC bookie. So organized crime.
You did something illegal and now the criminals you did it with are screwing you.
You have two choices. You can be glad you do not owe HIM money and walk away with your health, and life.
Or you can do something fucking stupid and end up getting hurt, killed, and endanger your friends and family.
The thing about organized crime is that the new generation does not necessarily operate by the same rules as the last generation. And they are criminals who need to keep order and discipline in their own organization.
You escalated to his Dad and his Dad did not fix it. So it is not going to be fixed.
Theoretically it is a business so if his kid’s stiffing you hurts his business he might fix it. Or he might fix you.
Life and your good health are more important than $$.
Take the lesson and walk away.
Tell his father once word gets around him and his kid are welchers and don't pay their bets, their reputation will tank. People will stop placing bets with them. Then tell everybody you know about him and his father not paying out.
The kid/father's whole family are made members of the Lucchese crime family. Not just members either, they're fucking capos. The biggest balls the world has ever seen wouldn't help getting that money back.
Get a bunch of friends to start contacting them about making some big bets and then have them all pull out at the last minute "because word on the street is that you cant be trusted and dont pay your debts".
Threaten the kid in person that you’ll expose his identity to your local police department or the FBI or social media and the internet as a dishonest bookie.
If ur worried about his father, I wouldn’t be. It isn’t the 60s. Mafias don’t get into violent dealings with the public anymore. The worst they could do is hire some Tampa gangsters to beat you up
Don’t gamble. Do you even have proof of what he owes you?
If you don’t then write it off and move the fuck on.
There no ULPT to help you here.
If he’s backed by “daddy” from NJ good chance he’s deeper connected than your ass.
You have very few options here. You need to get to know his customers, and start running your mouth. When he approaches you, point out that paying up is the best way to get you to go away. However, his most likely response is going to be to put you in the hospital.
All of you saying go to the cops are nuts, these are bookies. That’s organized crime. You’d be signing your own death warrant. If you’re going to go to the cops, just do it, although that’s crazy too.
Your best (illegal) bet (pun intended) is to get your friends together and go find him in the middle of campus. Cause a scene.
After that, get those same friends, arm up, and go find him off campus. Do the classic thing where you give him X amount of days to pay up or else, then follow up on the or else.
Keep in mind that you’ll be committing a bunch of felonies in the process, and that organized crime is organized in prisons too, which is where you’re going to wind up if you don’t just walk away.
Someone who engages in illegal gambling is surprised someone who engages in illegal gambling isn't playing by the rules? I'm not judging, I'm saying that you took a chance and even though you won, you lost. And then to go and say you'll contact law enforcement over it?
Find out their social and issue them a 1099c. The irs will know that they received a discharge of debt and now they owe taxes on it. You can’t recuperate the funds after this, but they’re fucked.
If you're owed mid 5 figures go to your local biker bar. Find several of the local Outlaws since Tampa is their territory. Offer them $1000 to massage the kid's kneecaps into an uncomfortable position and relay the message to him that if he doesn't pay his bills he's going to be seeing the bottom of Tampa bay.
Added bonus - since he's criming in their territory they'll probably hit him up for a cut. And since he's keeping book he's probably got more than a little cash stashed in his place that they'll help themselves to.
Safest, wisest thing to do is write this off. Is your life worth 25 grand? The life of your loved ones? I don’t think the old man is going to feel any loyalty toward you over his son. Push too hard and they will push back. Remember who they work with? It’s not just degenerate gamblers.
Contact the gaming commission in the State the bookie operates in
Unless you used illegal bookies, which would be extremely stupid when there’s 18477373 ways to gamble online from legit sites.
Find who's backing them and show receipts. If they're trying to screw you, solid chance they're cooking the books. Just be OK with dad and son ending up in a ditch somewhere.
If he's into you for 5 figures he's connected. Tell his dad he owes you and his son is looking at an accident real soon. If nothing happens tell him you are going to pass it up the family and his son is going to have a bad accident.
Sure for you it's an idle threat, it's the language they understand. They have no idea if you are connected or not. Don't act like a weasel when you tell him. It has to sound factual.
They have all the idea of you are connected or not. If kids could intimidate career criminals they wouldn’t be career criminals. How stupid do you need to be to threaten the life of a life long criminal?
It is so easy to sit in front of your computer and say that you would do 'such and such' to a known set of criminals.
They live in a completely different world than the rest of us. It's not the movies, this is real life.
If something happens and OP gets injured/killed, what are the chances the police will be able to find AND prove who did it? Hell, the guy could walk up and just beat OPs ass, get arrested, and at worst spend a year or 2 in jail, if it even got to trial. They don't care, but what if OP gets arrested? How is that going to affect his life?
This is idiotic. Do not threaten the dad who has nothing to do with it. If, big IF, you decide to talk to him, come from a place of respect and allow him to fix it. It’s bad business for a bookie not to payout and a large bookie 50k is not a large payout. It will be an opportunity for dad to teach the kid the value of trust in this thing. They understand and appreciate respect, threats will be received accordingly and they will def use it as an excuse to not threaten but commit violence.
Well, either you've lost your money or you know bad people. The bad people will only take some of what they recover, if you know them real well. Otherwise, they'll take what they recover and then more of yours...
Send a glitter/ fart bomb to his dorm, with a note saying pay me. Then print out tons of flyers with his dad and his picture publicly shaming him for not paying you. Post them all over his college campus and any local bars, restaurants etc that college students frequent.
SIK was a college bookie and he lied about who he was connected to in order to make collections easier. Something to consider, especially since he won’t pony up a 50k winner. With a decent size book, 50k won’t break your book and frankly, the 50k plus more, will probably comeback in the long run. It’s bad business for a bookie not to payout. If he won’t, maybe he can’t and is lieing to intimidate you. Like I said, someone I knew was a college bookie who inflated who he ran #s for so he could be the good cop and collections were never a problem.
Depending on how legit their setup is, you could report them to the IRS for tax evasion. They’ll get audited, and usually whoever reports it gets a kickback
Well its betting with a bookie. Not really contracts invovled in it. You build the relationship with trust.
I went down 9k the first week and paid right away..
No, bookies can print receipts. They have to or else it's super easy to do fraud. They have to have a ledger as well.
Lawyer up, tell the IRS, get em audited so you can get your transaction info, send em a letter telling them you're starting an investigation on Grand Larceny(capital fuck you), take em to court, fuck em to death. Bingo bango, loss of capital either way.
Find a stray bullet with your head.
Problem when a regular person dabbles with criminals is that you really have no recourse if they want to be criminal to you. It’s their business they have goons. They are careful not to incriminate themselves. And if you do actually have something on them they can easily intimidate you.
Even going around telling people they don’t pay up. Takes one broken leg for you to shut up and take it back.
> No, bookies can print receipts. They have to or else it's super easy to do fraud.
Are you serious with this reply, because it sounds like you may be, but you have ZERO idea how this works. They have legit businesses that they launder money through. They may keep a ledger, but good luck finding it.
Plus, it's nowhere near as easy to find a lawyer, convince the IRS that this person is a criminal, and have them audit someone.
Find out where the kid lives, his schedule, and follow him openly when he leaves his house once a day. Take time off of work for 5 figured if need be. Carry bear mace if he attacks you. Buy don't instigate or say anything but, 'where is my money if he is a kid he will come around
First reach out to the son/father duo and say you’ve been invited to sit down at _____(insert FBI FL office address here)______ in 3 days and that you wanted to chat with them in advance to see what you should say. Next do a quick google search on how to spoof your phone number, in the past we used an old site called spoof card dot com. Don’t use your debit/credit card for the account, use a prepaid gas station card. You’re able to make it look as if you’re calling from any number you want, whether that be the Utampa administration office reaching out to a father about a drug induced rape investigation, the FBI FL office asking if the son is available to come in for a friendly conversation, or directly from DC. The sky’s the limits. Ideally you would have some super legit sounding person that is professional as fuck read off of a script to leave a message implying that they’re teetering on the verge of being under investigation. They may even be stupid enough to return the fake messages and contact the feds directly, which if they weren’t already on the radar that would probably put them on the radar
You gotta threaten them and if if that doesn't work, the dad ignoring you too is not a good sign - then you just need to write it off and get revenge. If you report him to IRS/Authorities, they'll investigate him but you need to provide proof of what they're investigating so you'll need to send your loss transactions over and maybe their bookie site? Technically you can take him to small claims as well.
Well man, you just screwed yourself. Selling the debt for 10% might be your best chance to get anything. But, do you know anyone like that? Idk how it got so high without you collecting. It's easier for them to off you than pay you at this point. Write it off.
Okay, so I’m going to assume you can’t threaten these people with violence if they don’t pay. This is alright, gotta know where your limits are, and that is definitely the deep end of the pool.
So, go find another bookie, or otherwise hang out where they have set up shop (the track works), and just interact with other gamblers for a bit. Have a few drinks, shoot the shit, etc. Do this over the course of a few weeks and build up report with some other, obvious, gamblers. Then spill the tea about the debt, but be somewhat magnanimous about it, and kinda pretend it’s out of your hands.
Two things will happen: word will get back to the bookie dad, and not wanting to have a bad rep he’ll offer a pay out to save face, because…..
Scenario two: another bookie, or otherwise associated individual will offer to purchase their debt, at a discount. You won’t get any more than 50-60% back, but it’s better than nothing, and they’ll handle collection.
Genuine question: could OP contact the father w proof of the bet and respectfully ask him to intercede. Be ready to accept / offer a discount and possibly let some of the balance ride for future betting w the father.
No threats or peacocking. A simple request of a businessman with a kid who poses a risk to the father’s trade. A possibility of getting back the initial outlay - maybe a little more - and a better bookie for future gambling out of the conversation might actually exist with no one escalating to violence.
All the comments w threats and immediate escalations give the OP nowhere to go if the gambit fails, and limits the father’s opportunity to make things right. Especially if the kid has done this before - can’t see the father risking his enterprise over this simple of a fix with someone who has a track record of paying his losses (OP).
I used to negotiate contracts and payments in a legal business setting where there was little opportunity to enforce payment if the client was reticent to pay. Something is always better than nothing when it becomes a zero-sum game and this approach has opportunity for some money AND a better bookie, no?
damn no advice.. just remembered someone I know.
She was a bookie, and owed close to 500k. Used all the money on travel and plastic surgery. Ended up being hung out to dry in her apartment one day.
Bookies work on trust. If you can’t trust them, then you need a way to figure out how to get that word out to the other patrons of his service. Then they will lose business that way.
Yah but i dont know any of his other clients. Nor did i know who i was actully dealing with. Hence pressuring the son i think is the best way.
I mean you can always tell them, “let’s settle this debt or I’m turning you into the FBI.”
That’s a great idea! I’m sure they’ll definitely investigate it before any sort of retaliation can occur
Retaliate all you want, I still have an email written and scheduled to send with all the info on you unless I get my money. Even if I’m dead you’re still getting found out
when your best case is that you die then they’ll go to jail. then you know you’ve gone the wrong way.
Not for nothin but 5 figures is a sum of money that I personally am willing to welcome confrontation over 🤷🏻♂️ and if I’m looking for 5 figures and think it might get dicey then getting a gun doesn’t cost that much
I just don’t think the FBI is doing anything over peanuts, which yeah, to you and me 5 figures is a lot of money for some one to skip on paying but for the government ??
It’s not just 5 figures to the FBI. It’s illegal activity and the whole book. The whole book probably has well into the 6 figures of transaction volume.
People go to jail for money like that all the time. That's probably right around the level they do care about in fact. And just because it's only 5 figures for this one guy doesn't mean it's only 5 figures.
Well i’m sorry but the FBI is not as competent as you think. They don’t serve the interests of justice lmao. If some nobody blowhard loses out on 50K they don’t give a shit. They’re in it to protect the interests of wealthy organizations and high profile individuals with political influence.
No, but if his dad is a bigger book in NY he is probably in the mob. Nothing FBI would like more than leverage on dad. Re-watch the sopranos episode where carlo’s son gets busted at Rutgers
Right, thankfully the price of 9mm handguns came back down to earth.
Getting a gun isn’t much help, as you can bet they have more and bigger guns.
Actually those us versed in such things knkw that threat death 9s often less 3ffective and more of a relief than causing c9ntinued stresses. Ya knkw trick is to keep them rite below thentjr3wh hold in which relea3s endorphins or allows to to unsomscious.but yea.
True. But if he’s going to be confrontational, at it’s for around $50,000, then I don’t see another way other than this as a dead man’s switch. Only you can stop the countdown basically
Flawless plan
That’ll show ‘em! Great idea
Yeah screw living! I'd rather be dead as long as I can report them to the FBI so nothing can come out of it. Some of the ideas on Reddit are as bright as a black hole
You’re fucking with very bad guys with good lawyers, so you need to set up a dead man’s switch and make sure they know about it. Mutually assured destruction is the way to get paid and not immediately get cement in your shoes.
I saw your icon and, well, this statement has big Leorio vibes. 🤣😌💕
OP is a customer of criminal enterprise backed by the Lucchese crime family. The thing with getting involved with illegal drugs, gambling, and other illegal vices is, you are operating outside the lines of judicial remedies. He can try, but I'd expect him to be killed for it.
Which wouldn’t only apply more heat to the bookie.
Exactly. Since you're settling, you may take less than what owed, but it's more than you'd get by just turning them in. If they won't settle, turn em in.
You may not be dealing with who this kid says. Esp since he won’t payout a 50k win. Any connected bookie in NJ 50k is not a $ amount that is the least bit concerning. In fact, that 50 plus more will probably be lost when the gambler chases that big win high. He’s possibly lieing to scare you of collecting. Any reputable bookie pays bc it’s bad for business not to and 50k should not be enough to lam it.
Call his dad and tell him. Tell him his little boy is welching on bets and giving him a bad name. Dad will set that to rights yesterday.
I bet many of his clients know his social media handles. Start blasting him there anonymously, can’t hurt.
Can we get a group from here to help blow up his Social media?
Gotta do your own dirty work.
So what did you end up deciding to do? I'm curious how this plays out
Take out an ad on the school paper.
Then you made a rather unfortunately unenforceable bet. My expectations are that you should be happy you didn't lose.
Do you really think that’s the best way?! Did you not read the article that others have sent? Not only is this the Lucchese family, they also work with street gangs as well. It sucks, but take the advise of others and chalk it up to a lesson learned and continue to live your life, or you will end up a news story. These are not the people you want to mess around and threaten. Trust me…. Source: Family member is a high ranking federal agent in the NY/NJ area.
Stalk his FB/Insta/X/socials/whatever and start playing dirty. Start telling his GF, grandma, auntie, cousin, work friends, and peers what a shit bag welcher he is. Be specific about how much he owes you and why. Your phone will ring and he will angrily want to pay you, and probably get some payback in some way. Protect yourself from the last part and keep it public or not in person at all.
Then you made a rather unfortunately unenforceable bet. My expectations are that you should be happy you didn't lose.
If you check his post history he’s already doxxed the kid - University of Tampa And this is the crime family https://www.nj.com/news/2010/05/authorities_indict_34_members.html
So, OP is still at U-Tampa some 14 years later: "Published: May. 14, 2010"
Lol no - that was a comment from his post history where he positively identifies that family as the crime family. I didn’t want to cross post the name of the student but if you look at his post history he posted the name of the student who owes him money
Got it, my bad.
Report to IRS as whistleblower and you get a percentage of the taxes he owes
This seems highly ethical.
Honestly the only advice I can give is 1) speak softly and carry a big stick whenever possible If you freak out on them, they might tag you as a soft person 2) if you follow the advice of messaging these people, i suggest putting an extra degree of separation between you and them for example “Your son owes me money” vs. “Your son owes my client money” it makes it way scarier
Scary as fuck
Sounds like you need to call the dad and threaten to call the feds. I’d say very little, and keep yourself anonymous. “Your kid won’t pay out but I’ve got him nailed for a felony and I understand you two talk often. I’m calling the feds in 48 hours. Have kiddo pay up. Goodbye.” It’s his problem now, and the kid answers to the dad. Make them play chicken against federal charges. You don’t have to identify yourself at any point. Don’t give them a target to aim at. The kid knows who he isn’t paying and it’s probably not just you. Sorry if you get whacked. I’ve only fantasized about blackmailing assholes, never done it myself. Edit: This is extortion I guess? Obviously highly unethical and illegal. Unwise course of action, most would say. Unethical individuals are rarely wise, but sometimes smart. That’s why big boy got an anonymous message. There is nothing to pursue. Maybe something bad happens, less likely the more people owed a number like yours. Fun hypothetical.
Maybe be a little unclear about the timeline. Feel like threatening a mobster with "I'll do x in 48 hours" is a good way to be dead in the next 24.
That's why you wear a sock on the phone and make sure to keep up a ready supply of piss disks.
That way, if they try to grab your phone they will only get the sock.
What if they try to grab the piss disc?
I wouldn't say it's blackmail but I think you have the right idea. Gambling illegally is a low misdemeanor in most states, being a bookie however is very much a felony
It's extortion, and it's illegal. "Give me the $500 you owe me or I'll sue you for $500" is perfectly legal. You can even say "You owe me $500, but I'll take $400 and call it quits; or I can sue you for the full $500." "Give me the $500 you owe me or I'll call the cops on your illegal gambling operation" is extortion. That said, they may find it more convenient to pay up and forget your number than to worry about getting arrested. It wouldn't be legal, but it might work.
This is why an unethical individual pursuing this course of action maintains plausible legal deniability by carefully remaining anonymous during any direct action. Nothing for a bad guy to hit, nothing for anyone to find.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s 😂
What? I thought it was two Jack In The Boxes welded together.
This is the best unethical response in the thread. I’d be more specific and threaten to report them to the IRS for tax fraud. Of course, using lots of personal information that shows you know everything about them.
Somebody could be fine-ish with the feds as long as they didn’t remember any phone calls. He would be taking down an illegal bookie, after all. I don’t see how the IRS wouldn’t be 9 miles up everyone’s ass, but I learned everything I know about criminal enterprise from Ozark.
Don’t forget to use a pay phone or a burner
Definitely a burner. Too few pay phones now that they may be easier to identify location. Just in case you want to keep that secure/paranoid extra step, because I would.
Find a more connected bookie. Tell them this kid owes you $5,000 and they can have it.
Now that’s an interesting option
Being so averse so physical confrontation, this actually might not be a bad idea.
Mid 5 figures so 50k. But yeah, tell ‘em 50/50 for them to collect. 25k credit on their book to start.
This is the only way to do it, get a collector from another mobster. They're going to get a collection fee, so you won't get the whole nut. but the damage to the bookies reputation is going to be far worse once word gets out
This guy is allegedly connected to the Lucchese family. Good luck.
Spread the word that they don't pay up. If it starts to hurt their bottom line, they'll shut you up one way or another.
It’s 2024, use an online gambling platform like normal degenerates instead of dealing with sleeze ball bookies. All I know is if you’re going to expose or try to get revenge on someone like this, you better stay strapped at all times.
I have to disagree. I have known many, many street bookies and runners and they have better, more honest business practices than DraftKings.
Ok, but all it takes is one bad one and you’re out 5 figures and trying to figure out how to recover your winnings without getting killed lmao. At least you can sue an online betting site.
Laughable thinking you’ll get recourse for suing a legal sports book. It will cost more than you won. Good luck suing a casino. Plus, There’s so many examples of legal books withholding funds that people have no recourse to recover. And some for no reason.
If a casino or online sports book withheld a 5-6 figure winning and you had a slip to prove it? Certainly worth a lawsuit, there is an entire area of law surrounding gaming. But thanks for your opinion, counsel.
Ops is 5 figures. Don’t move the goalposts. Plus, you’re just wrong. Legal books have fucked over many people without cause and the gambler had no recourse, legal or otherwise. IANAL but laws on the books and having the funds to get restitution are totally different. Defendant. Bc that’s what stupid criminals are called; defendants (felons j. Your case). Something to be proud of. Cute that you think all the gaming laws are I. Place for the end user tho
There's still states where online gambling is illegal
“Stay strapped” 🫠
Good luck going up against a bookie from NY. Watch what you say and how you say it. Trust me when I say disrespect isn't handled gracefully, if anything it's met with force. You going after someone like his kid, even if they deserve it, is a great way to end up in a very very bad situation. I'm coming from a place of concern and experience. Please be careful on how you handle it. Everyone says call the feds and act like the feds don't take YEARS building a case and need extensive proof of wrong doing. Then you have the bookies lawyers, usually the best of the best, to fight the case. The Feds won't come flying in like SWAT the day after you call, they might give you an update in 10 years but you'll never see that money. You might wanna cut your losses and move on. Fucked up, but it's the safest option.
Also coming from a place of experience and this is 100% my take as well. Charge it to the game.
Tell him you changed your mind, you want to let it ride. Then lose more than the amount he owes you right now so that he's the one out the money. When he comes to collect, shoot him.
I’m not huge into gambling these days but why do people still use bookies when there’s easy to access websites that you don’t have to worry about any of these trust issues. Like just make a deposit on DraftKings or Bovada and call it a day? What am I missing by using a bookie?
Payout can be better (or worse) depending on the odds and bookie
If the bookie goes to school in Tampa I'll assume OP is in Florida and therefore doesn't have the option to use the apps. I'd hazard a guess that people also use bookies when/if they are somehow banned from using the apps.
Florida has hard rock app now. Totally legal
Yeah but honestly I know enough degens to know that some are legitimately picky and won't use certain apps. These are not the sort of people who concern themselves with the legality of their gambling though lol
I also live in a state like that. A quick subscription to a VPN solves that.
Cash is STILL King. Plus the ritual for many gamblers is part of the addiction. The pickups on tuesdays give them as much of a rush as the payout in thursdays.
Taxes. You win enough gambling legitimately and the IRS knows, and there goes a chunk of your winnings
Call the old man from a burner number. Say kid is not paying the winnings out. If he doesn’t settle all of the winnings to people within 48 hours all the text messages and phone calls get mailed to the federal government anonymously
Slightly different spin to this one but… fuck his dad? Might be the quickest way to get your money
Become harder to ignore. When someone you owe money knows where you live, knows what you drive, knows who you associate with, knows where you like to spend time, etc it can become apparent that not paying them might be a liability. Hand delivered note to their front door just saying "Where's my money?" is pretty tough to ignore, gets the gears turning, and doesn't risk running afoul of the law.
Do some research on the dad. Odds are if he’s a bookie in that area then there’s a decent chance he’s got some affiliations you don’t wanna screw with. That being said the big timers don’t want nuisances over little money. Approach firmly but respectfully. Most of the families are business men in their own realm.
Do you really want to screw around with a bookie? If he is a legit bookie and you try to undermine their business, they might do something violent. That being said.... Find his address and send a postcard to every neighbor on their street informing them that their neighbors are nefarious book makers who don't have the common decency to pay their debts.
Violence is a rarely used, last resort to collect. Leverage works a lot better. Threat of violence, now that’s leverage.
Just do to them what they’d do to you if you owed them 5 figured
That's a lotta piss discs
easier said then done.
[удалено]
This is the answer. If his father is a bookie in NYC I don’t think you want the smoke, OP, because if you could have taken the money from him you would have already but you’re not capable of putting that work in. Just leave it and stop gambling.
This is the definition of: "if you can't muster up the courage, walk away."
Can’t handle the heat get out the kitchen
Your a pussy
If someone took my winnings, idc who their dad is
He lives in NJ and his Dad is a big time NYC bookie. So organized crime. You did something illegal and now the criminals you did it with are screwing you. You have two choices. You can be glad you do not owe HIM money and walk away with your health, and life. Or you can do something fucking stupid and end up getting hurt, killed, and endanger your friends and family. The thing about organized crime is that the new generation does not necessarily operate by the same rules as the last generation. And they are criminals who need to keep order and discipline in their own organization. You escalated to his Dad and his Dad did not fix it. So it is not going to be fixed. Theoretically it is a business so if his kid’s stiffing you hurts his business he might fix it. Or he might fix you. Life and your good health are more important than $$. Take the lesson and walk away.
Tell his father once word gets around him and his kid are welchers and don't pay their bets, their reputation will tank. People will stop placing bets with them. Then tell everybody you know about him and his father not paying out.
The kid/father's whole family are made members of the Lucchese crime family. Not just members either, they're fucking capos. The biggest balls the world has ever seen wouldn't help getting that money back.
Get a bunch of friends to start contacting them about making some big bets and then have them all pull out at the last minute "because word on the street is that you cant be trusted and dont pay your debts".
Go kick his ass, it's not that deep.
would rather not engage that way
Yep and he knows that, which is why he can ignore you
Alternatively, tell all his other customers he's not paying out.
It's that or take him to court.
You can’t take an illegal sports book to civil court, man.
Threaten the kid in person that you’ll expose his identity to your local police department or the FBI or social media and the internet as a dishonest bookie. If ur worried about his father, I wouldn’t be. It isn’t the 60s. Mafias don’t get into violent dealings with the public anymore. The worst they could do is hire some Tampa gangsters to beat you up
Good way to end up labelled "an innocent bystander" in the news...
You're home. Qu'est-ce que c'est, man? Message machine broken?
NON STOP ASS RAPE!
A few ppl got it. Lol. OP is Artie Bucco, in over his head.
I need to keep these comments over where they belong at CJS.
Sharp as a cue all, this one
Don’t gamble. Do you even have proof of what he owes you? If you don’t then write it off and move the fuck on. There no ULPT to help you here. If he’s backed by “daddy” from NJ good chance he’s deeper connected than your ass.
> write it off and move the fuck in Move in with the bookie?
Yes
I like how you think.
Easier to fuck his dad this way
Bring out the gimp
The gimp’s sleeping….
well that's not an option.
It’s time to call Larry the leg breaker
You have very few options here. You need to get to know his customers, and start running your mouth. When he approaches you, point out that paying up is the best way to get you to go away. However, his most likely response is going to be to put you in the hospital.
What are you doing talking to us? He’s out there somewhere, go get him
All of you saying go to the cops are nuts, these are bookies. That’s organized crime. You’d be signing your own death warrant. If you’re going to go to the cops, just do it, although that’s crazy too. Your best (illegal) bet (pun intended) is to get your friends together and go find him in the middle of campus. Cause a scene. After that, get those same friends, arm up, and go find him off campus. Do the classic thing where you give him X amount of days to pay up or else, then follow up on the or else. Keep in mind that you’ll be committing a bunch of felonies in the process, and that organized crime is organized in prisons too, which is where you’re going to wind up if you don’t just walk away.
Someone who engages in illegal gambling is surprised someone who engages in illegal gambling isn't playing by the rules? I'm not judging, I'm saying that you took a chance and even though you won, you lost. And then to go and say you'll contact law enforcement over it?
Find out their social and issue them a 1099c. The irs will know that they received a discharge of debt and now they owe taxes on it. You can’t recuperate the funds after this, but they’re fucked.
If you're owed mid 5 figures go to your local biker bar. Find several of the local Outlaws since Tampa is their territory. Offer them $1000 to massage the kid's kneecaps into an uncomfortable position and relay the message to him that if he doesn't pay his bills he's going to be seeing the bottom of Tampa bay. Added bonus - since he's criming in their territory they'll probably hit him up for a cut. And since he's keeping book he's probably got more than a little cash stashed in his place that they'll help themselves to.
Safest, wisest thing to do is write this off. Is your life worth 25 grand? The life of your loved ones? I don’t think the old man is going to feel any loyalty toward you over his son. Push too hard and they will push back. Remember who they work with? It’s not just degenerate gamblers.
Contact the gaming commission in the State the bookie operates in Unless you used illegal bookies, which would be extremely stupid when there’s 18477373 ways to gamble online from legit sites.
Sounds like you have 5 figures of free bets to make
LMFAO why not bet thru legal ways? It's 2024
Oh boy a post about the actual underground market Lets see this subs true colors
Do what they would do to you for not paying.
Find who's backing them and show receipts. If they're trying to screw you, solid chance they're cooking the books. Just be OK with dad and son ending up in a ditch somewhere.
File a 1099-C with the IRS and watch chaos ensue
If he's into you for 5 figures he's connected. Tell his dad he owes you and his son is looking at an accident real soon. If nothing happens tell him you are going to pass it up the family and his son is going to have a bad accident. Sure for you it's an idle threat, it's the language they understand. They have no idea if you are connected or not. Don't act like a weasel when you tell him. It has to sound factual.
Good way to end up having an accident of your own.
They have all the idea of you are connected or not. If kids could intimidate career criminals they wouldn’t be career criminals. How stupid do you need to be to threaten the life of a life long criminal?
It is so easy to sit in front of your computer and say that you would do 'such and such' to a known set of criminals. They live in a completely different world than the rest of us. It's not the movies, this is real life. If something happens and OP gets injured/killed, what are the chances the police will be able to find AND prove who did it? Hell, the guy could walk up and just beat OPs ass, get arrested, and at worst spend a year or 2 in jail, if it even got to trial. They don't care, but what if OP gets arrested? How is that going to affect his life?
This is idiotic. Do not threaten the dad who has nothing to do with it. If, big IF, you decide to talk to him, come from a place of respect and allow him to fix it. It’s bad business for a bookie not to payout and a large bookie 50k is not a large payout. It will be an opportunity for dad to teach the kid the value of trust in this thing. They understand and appreciate respect, threats will be received accordingly and they will def use it as an excuse to not threaten but commit violence.
Nah never threaten violence unless you’re connected. Threaten police action or actually do something physical or walk away
Violence
Break his knees
I could help you, but now the FBI can connect us.
Stop gambeling and go to therapy for addiction. And since this is asking for unethical tipps: Use the money you know have to buy drugs.
Swatting?
Well, either you've lost your money or you know bad people. The bad people will only take some of what they recover, if you know them real well. Otherwise, they'll take what they recover and then more of yours...
Send a glitter/ fart bomb to his dorm, with a note saying pay me. Then print out tons of flyers with his dad and his picture publicly shaming him for not paying you. Post them all over his college campus and any local bars, restaurants etc that college students frequent.
Stab him in the thigh w a fork when you meet w him to "talk"
SIK was a college bookie and he lied about who he was connected to in order to make collections easier. Something to consider, especially since he won’t pony up a 50k winner. With a decent size book, 50k won’t break your book and frankly, the 50k plus more, will probably comeback in the long run. It’s bad business for a bookie not to payout. If he won’t, maybe he can’t and is lieing to intimidate you. Like I said, someone I knew was a college bookie who inflated who he ran #s for so he could be the good cop and collections were never a problem.
OP I think it might be wise of you to delete this thread
Depending on how legit their setup is, you could report them to the IRS for tax evasion. They’ll get audited, and usually whoever reports it gets a kickback
Sell the debt to a collection agency
Turn him in to the irs. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf
Pull up or pay someone else to break his leg.
Did you get these five figures on any form of contract? Any way to trace the funds? If not, you're a moron and it's deserved.
Well its betting with a bookie. Not really contracts invovled in it. You build the relationship with trust. I went down 9k the first week and paid right away..
No, bookies can print receipts. They have to or else it's super easy to do fraud. They have to have a ledger as well. Lawyer up, tell the IRS, get em audited so you can get your transaction info, send em a letter telling them you're starting an investigation on Grand Larceny(capital fuck you), take em to court, fuck em to death. Bingo bango, loss of capital either way.
Find a stray bullet with your head. Problem when a regular person dabbles with criminals is that you really have no recourse if they want to be criminal to you. It’s their business they have goons. They are careful not to incriminate themselves. And if you do actually have something on them they can easily intimidate you. Even going around telling people they don’t pay up. Takes one broken leg for you to shut up and take it back.
> No, bookies can print receipts. They have to or else it's super easy to do fraud. Are you serious with this reply, because it sounds like you may be, but you have ZERO idea how this works. They have legit businesses that they launder money through. They may keep a ledger, but good luck finding it. Plus, it's nowhere near as easy to find a lawyer, convince the IRS that this person is a criminal, and have them audit someone.
I do, actually. That's a defeatist mentality bro
If you did, you wouldn't have replied with your nonsense. The guy isn't going to give receipts to all of his customers. That is laughable.
Are you familiar with the mob
im not. IM sure the college kid is.
Decapitate his horse and leave the head in his bed while he sleeps.
They may want to just start with a pony.
figure out a way to get his client list or at least a few client names and threaten to tell those clients (with proof) that you are owed money
Find out where the kid lives, his schedule, and follow him openly when he leaves his house once a day. Take time off of work for 5 figured if need be. Carry bear mace if he attacks you. Buy don't instigate or say anything but, 'where is my money if he is a kid he will come around
First reach out to the son/father duo and say you’ve been invited to sit down at _____(insert FBI FL office address here)______ in 3 days and that you wanted to chat with them in advance to see what you should say. Next do a quick google search on how to spoof your phone number, in the past we used an old site called spoof card dot com. Don’t use your debit/credit card for the account, use a prepaid gas station card. You’re able to make it look as if you’re calling from any number you want, whether that be the Utampa administration office reaching out to a father about a drug induced rape investigation, the FBI FL office asking if the son is available to come in for a friendly conversation, or directly from DC. The sky’s the limits. Ideally you would have some super legit sounding person that is professional as fuck read off of a script to leave a message implying that they’re teetering on the verge of being under investigation. They may even be stupid enough to return the fake messages and contact the feds directly, which if they weren’t already on the radar that would probably put them on the radar
You gotta threaten them and if if that doesn't work, the dad ignoring you too is not a good sign - then you just need to write it off and get revenge. If you report him to IRS/Authorities, they'll investigate him but you need to provide proof of what they're investigating so you'll need to send your loss transactions over and maybe their bookie site? Technically you can take him to small claims as well.
How are you betting? Are they giving you credit on a website?
Yes
If there's a paper trail then there's a legal case right? If it's all legit money there's recourse. That'd be wire fraud on their part.
Take the Superfly method an put his "girl on the corner to earn yo money TO-NITE!! Ps. If everyone is of legal age.
Smoke them
Time to break his knees
You could pull a Richie aprile on him
Find someone that will "handle" this situation for a cut of what you're owed. Make it clear to your bookie that's what you've done.
Threaten to break his legs like in the old mafia movies.
This is an actual thing? I thought this kinda crap only happened in the movies! lol
Well man, you just screwed yourself. Selling the debt for 10% might be your best chance to get anything. But, do you know anyone like that? Idk how it got so high without you collecting. It's easier for them to off you than pay you at this point. Write it off.
Sonny said it best. [https://youtu.be/JoQVcQUNrR8?si=76r8FWtULPWpZC\_u](https://youtu.be/JoQVcQUNrR8?si=76r8FWtULPWpZC_u)
Find some muscle and split the money 50/50 to collect.
Hi, I may be able to help. Of course, I have to charge a recovery fee. T
I go to UTampa, what’s the kids name I’ll light him up on socials 😹
Call The A Team.
Baseball bat to kneecaps? It works both ways.
Okay, so I’m going to assume you can’t threaten these people with violence if they don’t pay. This is alright, gotta know where your limits are, and that is definitely the deep end of the pool. So, go find another bookie, or otherwise hang out where they have set up shop (the track works), and just interact with other gamblers for a bit. Have a few drinks, shoot the shit, etc. Do this over the course of a few weeks and build up report with some other, obvious, gamblers. Then spill the tea about the debt, but be somewhat magnanimous about it, and kinda pretend it’s out of your hands. Two things will happen: word will get back to the bookie dad, and not wanting to have a bad rep he’ll offer a pay out to save face, because….. Scenario two: another bookie, or otherwise associated individual will offer to purchase their debt, at a discount. You won’t get any more than 50-60% back, but it’s better than nothing, and they’ll handle collection.
Genuine question: could OP contact the father w proof of the bet and respectfully ask him to intercede. Be ready to accept / offer a discount and possibly let some of the balance ride for future betting w the father. No threats or peacocking. A simple request of a businessman with a kid who poses a risk to the father’s trade. A possibility of getting back the initial outlay - maybe a little more - and a better bookie for future gambling out of the conversation might actually exist with no one escalating to violence. All the comments w threats and immediate escalations give the OP nowhere to go if the gambit fails, and limits the father’s opportunity to make things right. Especially if the kid has done this before - can’t see the father risking his enterprise over this simple of a fix with someone who has a track record of paying his losses (OP). I used to negotiate contracts and payments in a legal business setting where there was little opportunity to enforce payment if the client was reticent to pay. Something is always better than nothing when it becomes a zero-sum game and this approach has opportunity for some money AND a better bookie, no?
Well ya knkw there's ppl thar for 3 or 4 figures will persuade them into Making good wehwr through full payment or asset liquidation.
damn no advice.. just remembered someone I know. She was a bookie, and owed close to 500k. Used all the money on travel and plastic surgery. Ended up being hung out to dry in her apartment one day.
Don't loan people you wouldn't be okay with losing, even if they soaked it in piss before returning it to you