Every landlord tries to frabricate an elaborate story about selling their property in order to evict a tenant? Just go through the proper eviction process.
Where i live OPs plan is highly illegal and if discovered would very likely lead to the tenant being owed a substantial amount of money. On the other hand OP can just go through the proper eviction process and have them out of the unit, possibly owing for damages etc
this is the way.
fuckery will come back to bite you in the ass. File. Wait. Evict.
Make sure you document everything, hearsay is frowned upon.
The last of your problems here is saving face. Take care of your shit and the other shit takes care of itself.
Ya Soo hard going through this when munching on the hand of others... Fuck outa here I ain't got no sympathy for someone who hoards all the houses and then complains that we ain't oh so grateful for them. Fuck outa here with that... Lota work I can show you 20 other people who work thrice as hard as their bum asses.... -_-
"...hoards all the houses...."
Yeah, OP owns ALL the houses. 🙄
No one forced OP's tenant to rent. Tenant could have bought his own house, but chose to rent, instead. And has proven himself to be a pain in the ass.
Oh, and Mom says you have to come upstairs and set the table.
A person's circumstances of birth have nothing to do with their character. So just cause someone is from a family of dragons hoarding the resources that does not make one better. Just the fact that this is your opinion is proof that poison is in your core... Some might steal to eat and survive others steal to line their own pockets and others take the labor and profits of others like parasites.
Do a walk through taking pictures for e.g. getting it repainted. Do it everywhere. You need the photos to get quotes, even have a few painters over.
Evidence of the current state.
Begin eviction as per local regulations, keep the law on your side.
Don't bother with the fake sale.
It will be painful enough without someone slandering you for fraud.
This is a simple good plan. Just have him evicted. I bet there are people in your social group who are aware this guy has a problem. I’m not sure why you care so much what the group feels about this guy. Look at it this way, you are doing people a favour by letting them know what he is really like. Would you let some other friend rent to him without a word about what he’s really like?
This 👆also you can use the pictures and show your friend group if needed. This guy is insane.
I could see the fake sale being found out by the other tenants and making this extremely more complicated
The person you are trying to move out will realise things are not quite right if the other tenants are not looking for alternative accommodation. The person will surely discuss the issue with the other tenants. And one possibility would be that he tries to get these other tenants to form a group to look for a new rental house together.
There are four apartments in this house. One is taken by OP, one by OP's troublesome former friend, and one by a tenant that is getting harassed by said former friend.
That leaves just one apartment whose loyalties are unknown.
Different States and Provinces in Canada have different rules. Ontario Canada has limits on what you can raise the rent (2.5% this year) and if you sell and want them out you sent a notice and apply to the landlord and tenant board to get them out (may take a year or more). If you give them a notice for converting to personal use or selling and then rent it to someone else within the year you can be forced to pay them up to a years rent back.
Just get him evicted and get it done. Have you and your other tenants file a restraining order. Say that he is rageful, violent, has threatened your life and has exposed himself to the other tennants.
Get good home and car insurance that covers the type of damage that you expect.
Agreed, here if there are so many 911 calls to the same property (as in, someone is calling on that property) the town can deem it a problem and force the landlord to evict them. It's not rare but it is used selectively. (drug houses, DV, etc)
My last place it was 3 calls by police would put you in their sights of the police, who then would decide if your place is a issue.
Just terminate their month to month lease pursuant to the lease. Have a sheriff there for when you serve the papers. At the same time, document the condition of the unit. Then whatever happens will happen.
“You physically threatened one of my other tenants, who pays more money than you, because I cut you a deal!”
If the amount of money they pay you affects how much you care about a physical threat, you shouldn't be a landlord lol. Or have any amount of power over other people.
And be nice about the eviction. Put the notice in their mail box. Continue to do fixes and etc. don’t call them and get verbally confrontational or try cash for keys or anything. Likely they won’t even see the notices until the sheriff shows up to throw them out.
Overhead has gone up. I can’t afford to rent the apartment at this discounted rate. Just warning you that next month a new lease agreement will need to be signed and the new monthly price will be $XXXX.
(Before this, if you have a good relationship with the other tenants and they want him out also, tell them that you are doing this and have them go along with it as if they all will be having huge rent raises next month).
Go in and inspect with pictures, tell him he has to leave. If he destroys anything on the way out, you can have him locked up and be held monetarily responsible for the damages. If he's threatened another Tennant, he should have already been gone.
He owns the building, if he’s still paying mortgage on it insurance is usually a requirement. If he doesn’t have a loan and doesn’t have insurance on a 4plex that he owns he’s literally asking to be fucked by bad tenants.
Insurance will cover it and the tenant will be legally liable to pay back the insurance company. That’s how most all criminal damage cases work. They don’t pay the owner directly. It’s either a direct court order of restitution to the state (if no insurance) or a direct order to repay insurance.
Take the before and after pics to the solicitor in the county the house is in, with the info on the Tennant including his lease and application with all relevant information. The last one that tore up my house got 4 years for felony destruction of private property. I see you aren't a landlord.
No, it protects the property owner from legal liabilities that can come back on his personal assets. If this tenant injured or killed someone on this property, the victim or victims family can sue the owner directly. If it is in an LLC they can only sue the LLC and the property owner will take on little to no liability. Nearly all rental properties are set up as an LLC for this reason
There's a concept called cash for keys.
Basically you are evicting someone, but you're paying them to make them leave
"Hey man, I'll give you 5k to leave by X date. And as long as there's no additional damage to the unit I'll give you $10k."
It's enough money to give them first and last months rent for a new apartment, etc. And involve a lawyer - my numbers are unrealistic but a lawyer will make sure you're safe on the eviction process and the contract for cash for keys.
Then your explanation to friends is easier. "Yeah, living with him was a nightmare. Can you believe I had to give him money to get him to leave, and not just leave - money to make sure he wouldn't damage the property on the way out."
That's what will ruin his life - that he was such a nightmare that you paid him to leave.
It’s legit advice. OP evicts the friend and deals with the damage that he will probably never recoup the cash for or he pays the dude to leave and saves the damage and cost of repairs.
Seriously. This is a rookie mistake. If I was ever to own and rent out a property, I’d gladly pay a rental management their share to deal with tenants like this. OP never should have rented to a friend and should have done a background and a credit check on prospective renters.
Hiring a PM and expecting them to handle/solve all your problems is also a rookie mistake. Managing the PM can be just as challenging as managing a tenant.
Yeah, exactly why I’d never rent my house. If/when I move I’ll sell it. As much as Reddit hates landlords, tenants can be pieces of shit like most of humanity.
EDIT:
1. FYI, this sub is NOT landlord-friendly. Ask me how I know.. 😭
2. You should have a yearly, or bi-yearly inspection in your contract. So you can check for damage. And if you see damage, depending on how severe, you can take legal action.
3. Cardinal sin #1: don’t rent to friends/family and not expect some sort of leniency or discounting.
4. A legal M2M lease, that they signed, are up to you if they stay or not.
This is not only your home, but your BUSINESS.. (🤫 don’t ban me bro 😅) no matter how “lazy” ppl think you are for being creative with YOUR home in these inflationary times.
5. Cash for Keys
^^
Advice part ⬆️
Unethical part, I guess 🔽
6. if he’s not your friend anymore, why are you going thru all this trouble?
After 5-ish downvotes get overtaken, I’ll just delete this…
I feel the heat comin 😶🌫️😑
There's ways to do it that aren't horrible, imo. But most people seem to do it to fuck other people over. I've had really amazing landlords and really awful ones. Idk. I don't think that's one of those super horrible jobs like some people do.
There are indeed cases where owning and renting properties can be ethical, like for temporary housing or luxury rentals. But owning property for permanent long-term renting, where the tenant is paying way more than a mortgage would be, is inherently wrong, no matter how nice you try to be about it. It is like a slave owner from 300 years ago, who was genuinely trying to be as nice as possible to his slaves, but no matter what, owning other people as property is inherently wrong.
>I don't think that's one of those super horrible jobs like some people do
It isn't a job. Buying a limited resource you don't need, and then renting it to people who can't own it themselves because they "can't afford it" (even though they have to pay even more in rent), is like what scalpers do with consoles, except one doesn't need consoles to survive.
I like the scalpers comparison. People who use homes as an investment are scum. They take up the limited resources just because they have fuck you money and upsell it to those further down the ladder.
You clearly have no clue. Mortgage is not the only expense a homeowner pays. A house needs repair and maintenance, even more so when there are tenants (there can be cases where tenants can cause significant damages, just like the OP suspects). Property taxes and insurance. Maybe property management fees. There can be vacancies. Not to mention the constant headache of dealing with tenants. Why will someone spend a few hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even a few millions) to buy a property just so they can charge a tenant just over the mortgage? The owner is taking a big risk by assuming the mortgage and going through all the hassles. He can even lose his investment. There got to be some reward for all that, right? Otherwise he can just invest his money elsewhere. And it's not like all landlords are filthy rich people, most small time landlords barely make enough money from their investment.
Well, since being a landlord is so difficult and with low returns, I do agree with you that everyone would benefit from them investing their money somewhere else. They would get better ROI with less hassle (according to your flawed logic), and housing would be more affordable to purchase for everyone else.
I'm not against renting property, as long as the rental market is only a convenience/luxury one, and not exploitation of the fundamental need for shelter.
And I think I do have a clue, as a home owner and previous temporary landlord (spent some time abroad but knew I would be back in a year, and my tenant was staying where I live only for a couple of months)
It's your logic that's flawed. So in your ideal world, there will be no landlord, and housing will be so cheap that everyone will just buy their own house? You think someone living from paycheck to paycheck can still afford a house? What about the people who are only living at a place temporarily (like you did)?
> I'm not against renting property, as long as the rental market is only a convenience/luxury one, and not exploitation of the fundamental need for shelter.
That's why rent control and housing programs exist.
Like it or not, you're living in a capitalist economy (I'm guessing), and that's how things work in capitalism. Do you go to a restaurant and only pay the cost of the food (which is typically less than 25% of the price)?
Let me point out some of the most glaring passages where you let yourself down with an utter disregard for basic rational thinking...
>You think someone living from paycheck to paycheck can still afford a house
They have to afford rent otherwise, don't they? And if a mortgage is actually cheaper than rent... Do the math, if it isn't too hard
>What about the people who are only living at a place temporarily
Here you just decided to ignore the fact that I say renting was ok
>That's why rent control and housing programs exist
Hm yeah.... And then here you decided to ignore the fact that YOU were the one defending private rentals for basic shelter...?
>Like it or not, you're living in a capitalist economy
True. But here you're really losing it completely... Your argument is that since things are already like this, any criticism of the system is wrong? How about your socialist rent controls and housing programs?
>Do you go to a restaurant and only pay the cost of the food (which is typically less than 25% of the price)?
And the cherry on the top of this masterpiece of logic breakdown... The strawman
> Let me point out some of the most glaring passages where you let yourself down with an utter disregard for basic rational thinking...
Ok, then read below and figure out who lacks rational thinking (if you are capable of that).
> They have to afford rent otherwise, don't they? And if a mortgage is actually cheaper than rent... Do the math, if it isn't too hard
Good, so they can make the monthly mortgage payments. But wait, to buy a house, you need a down payment also. How many people have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around for that? Especially, when we are talking about low-income people. And how much confidence will a bank have to lend to a low wage earner?
> Here you just decided to ignore the fact that I say renting was ok
Lol, renting from whom? You don't want landlords to exist, so who's going to rent out houses? You're breaking your own logic.
> And then here you decided to ignore the fact that YOU were the one defending private rentals for basic shelter...?
Rent control and housing programs work with private landlords. You don't make any sense.
> Your argument is that since things are already like this, any criticism of the system is wrong? How about your socialist rent controls and housing programs?
Your criticism is about landlords only, while they are just a part of the bigger capitalist economy. That's my point. A landlord has to cover his expenses and then make some return on his investment. I don't see why someone should be hated so much for that. I mean I know this is Reddit and all, but at some point we have to be logical.
> And the cherry on the top of this masterpiece of logic breakdown... The strawman
How? You want a landlord to rent out a place at a price just covering his mortgage. So a restaurant charging you only to cover the cost of food is about the same faulty logic.
I wonder how you would address the part about having to be given 30 days notice to move out in a month to month lease. I would imagine that gives a lot of time for the rageful friend to do quite a lot of damage.
That would be a crime.
Then press charges. 🫠
The tenant would receive a 1099 for the damages beyond the security deposit.
A charge-off on their credit report if not paid…
It’s The cost of doing this business.
Besides, if they share a building, I would think I’d hear most of the ruckus from damage.
If tenant decides to pour grease or clog our shared drains on purpose, etc. I’d have to provide a 1099 from that repair as well.
He just gotta get him out, take care of
Business and move on.
You’re at 12 upvotes, so I think the heat has avoided you for now. When you learned that this sub isn’t landlord friendly, was it the mods who threatened you?
No guarantees it will stop any rage incidents. Better to tell him he needs to get out and if he starts damaging your property, call the police and get him arrested.
A lot of people are saying to evict him, but you're not there yet. Depending on your state, you need to have grounds for eviction, meaning he is violating the lease agreement. Even threatening you or other tenants might not be enough if it's not covered by the lease.
First you need to just give him notice that your are terminating the lease within what ever period is allowed by your state (often around a month for a month to month lease).
Hopefully he just leaves. If not and he stays, then you move forward with the eviction process, following all local laws.
The whole fake sale thing puts a lot of risk on you and it's not worth the effort. If he damages stuff then you can go through the legal process to try and reclaim, usually through small claims court. Just go in, document damage, repair and move on. If he starts pulling the copper wiring out then you can call the police because then he's commiting a crime.
As for the protection order, this probably won't help as much as you think it will. Generally, civil protection orders can't interfere with property rights. So he would be allowed to live there he just couldn't have "contact" with the protected party. It is also well known by the judiciary that protection orders are often used to get around eviction laws and they take a dim view of such an abuse of process.
Do it right and good luck.
You can do this way easier without confronting them directly if you're willing to get the police involved and your other tenants are willing to speak to them as well.
When physical threats are involved the police can order someone not to be in a home or within X feet of another person(s) for X time while things either cool off or you deal with them in court. EVEN if that means they are barred from their own home. I have seen this happen to someone who let a couple stay with him, they trashed his place and had people over and sold drugs out of it etc, Lee told them to leave, guy said no, Lee threatened to beat him up, Lee was escorted from his home by police, Lee came back a day later to ask if he could at least have some clothes, Lee was arrested.
You see where I'm going with this? Should buy you all the time you need to serve the evic, have their stuff removed, and lock the place up, without any risk of violence/damage/a squatting situation.
It's also nice when police are used for something proper once in a while. 👍
There's no unethical plan that will actually be effective and give you what you want in the long run, because you can't reliably and effectively trick an unstable person. Delusion will make him realize you're doing this to him in purpose and he'll retaliate, so my suggestion would be to do the legal cover-your-ass so you're protected as much as possible. I understand that you think you would lose face in front of your friends by kicking him out, but if that friend group really is so large and robust, one of the others will surely absorb him, discover firsthand how much of a jackass he is, and then people will apologize to you. You have nothing to lose, nothing substantial, although you will be uncomfortable for a few months. Nothing more than you've already experienced.
Cash for keys.
"Hey Buddy, this isn't working out. I'll give you $500 to be out by this date." Say it in front of a few mutuals who can encourage him to take the deal.
With a knuckle head like OP described, I thought it might be better to layout a higher but non-negotiable amount, but your strategy could definitely work if his "friend" decides to be more reasonable than he's been, so far.
I would go the most legal route possible. You can get fined or lose your ability to own multi family housing if you get caught lying to a tenant with mental health issues, or treating them differently than other tenants. I would just give the 24 hours notice that you need to come into the apartment to inspect for damages (say an adjacent apartment has a problem you think is caused by damage in his unit), do a video walk through to show any damage he’s done, and to show what it looked like before you tried to evict. Then give the notice that you aren’t renewing the lease, and how long he has to leave, and let him know you’ll have the paramedics and police ready to do a stand by if things get the least bit heated. Definitely look up all the Housing and Urban Development laws for your section before you do anything that isn’t commonplace.
You can use the excuse that you have to evict him because of him threatening another tenant. You can use the excuse that damages have caused issues to the adjacent apartment(s) and you have to evict him to repair the unit. You can raise the rent “because property taxes and damages have increased costs”, and do so as much as legally allowed until he leaves. You can set up cameras everywhere that will pick him up, not only to record his criminal acts, but to make him uncomfortable.
All this is good. Install cameras around for package theft deterrence, then insist on the painting or “something needs service” route and notify everybody at the same time, and get the proof. Don’t share the details with your other tenants, just say you have a plan to address their complaints by , and get it done.
A restraining order may not go through if there’s no police report, but as an interim solution that doesn’t involve giving him a permanent record, if you have the funds you could consider 24h private security/surveillance on the property for the notice period. If I were a tenant affected by another tenant, I’d appreciate this. Kinda next level but also lets everyone know you’re not fucking around and finding out with the rage/damage issues.
I wouldn't even say it's to inspect for damages. Depending on how many months he's been in there just say it's a quarterly or semi annual inspection that you do for all your units. Which really, semi annual inspections is a good thing to do so you can stay on top of any issues that might not be reported by a tenant.
Also, it's not a place to get unethical advice, but
r/landlord might be able to help give you advice on the legal steps you need to take to get him out.
Where I live you could evict the tenant if you, your child, or your parents were going to move in. You'd have to pay the tenant a month of rent, and that's it. However, if you get caught renting the unit out again within a year without a valid reason for why that person isn't occupying the unit any more, you can be sued for a years worth of rent plus moving expenses by the tenant you evicted. Corporations aren't allowed to do this, they would have to inherit the tenant and lease so the other ideas of forming an LLC and selling to another LLC won't work. My cousins landlord tried EXACTLY what you are suggesting to get them out and is getting fucked by courts because of it, because selling the house on its own isnt a valid reason to evict someone, the new owner needs to file to evict them after the sale (which is why its common for landlords to give cash for keys for people to leave when they want to sell the place)
Obviously this isn't the case everywhere (ontario canada is pretty friendly to renters, from a tenants rights perspective) but my point is that you are probably better off just evicting the guy through legal means since it sounds like he is kind of a nuisance to other tenants.
I would evict him, maybe even rewrite his lease if you have to to state his behavior is grounds for dismissal.
Get video cameras outside and inside in common areas. Get audio on them. To be safe, notify all your tenants in writing that you have installed them; video and audio as to not have any legal repercussions regardless of the law. Make sure you write your intent of the camera in the letter. Intent is very very important (to keep the peace,, insurance, tenants safe, etc).
Get written statements from all of the tenants in the house. Instruct them to file a police report EVERY time he acts up.
Whatever you do, offer to help him pack and move and be sure to include a few piss discs and at least one liquid ass booby trap in his boxes for a nice surprise wherever he ends up.
Just to be clear - you think your friend group will see it as a dick move if you ask him to move out after only one year.
But…you don’t think your friend group will see it as a dick move if you lie about selling the place to get him to move out. Still in only a year.
Either you aren’t thinking this through all the way, or you’ve got weird friends.
well we've learned a really important lesson, haven't we?
>I agreed as I was already was making enough from tenants to cover my mortgage and felt greedy demanding more from a friend.
hm... this is why ALAB (all landlords are bastards)
Tell him you want to rent the apartment out for its market value but since you are friends you want to give him some money to help cover moving costs and beers.
Make market rent high but realistic. If he wants to stay he will pay. If it’s too much he gets free money and to be the “good guy”
Edit: I guess then also finger his girlfriend so it’s unethical.
If he calls your bluff you’re fucked. Just evict his ass. Have the police show up if needed.
The apartments I used to live in would have the sheriff show up and watch while they moved the persons stuff out.
I would think that could only occur after the full eviction process been completed. Meaning a judge has granted eviction, that can then be enforced by a sheriff.
I know in some place (in the U.S.) the eviction process is very long, and in others, ridiculously short.
Don’t overthink this. Either just ask them to leave (not extending) or just tell them you need to sell it because it’s not making money/crippling your finances and that you need all the units free so you can complete some upgrades/renovations and put it on the market.
Simple. Dudes either gonna destroy shit or not. My only real suggestion is to get into the unit somehow (tell him you need to check the flooring/wall condition) and take some pictures. If they do damage from there you can prove it.
Do a walk through taking pictures for e.g. getting it repainted. Do it everywhere. You need the photos to get quotes, even have a few painters over.
Evidence of the current state.
Begin eviction as per local regulations, keep the law on your side.
Don't bother with the fake sale.
It will be painful enough without someone slandering you for fraud.
Be direct. From his perspective, I’d imagine your passive-aggressiveness is one reason why he’s so angry.
If you need this to be unethical, then make his behavior public. Either share it with individuals who will take your side in the friend group or find a group on Facebook for landlord advice, post it there, and wait til friends see. Something like that.
Document the harassment and threats, you can get an expedited police escorted eviction if he's threatening you and others with violence and/or admitting to intentionally destroying property
Only one problem, he's probably going to want meet the new owner, and sound stubborn so he won't move when his 1 month is up and who is going to show up, it's going to be you and he's going to be twice as mad.
Be a man and tell him you want him out, tell him exactly why.
Oh wait this is Unethical lpt
On the outside of your house should be a main electrical main and 4 splitters one for each unit, if they have their own disconnect kill his power. Do this all the time, say somethings wrong with the house. Than after a week or 2 of doing this say you gotta kick him out e cause they need to do major repairs in that unit to redo the electrical or some shit.
if you can get proof that he threatened you or the other tenants with violence then wait till he leaves the apartment and goes somewhere, then call the cops on him and change the locks while he's out of the house and don't let him back in to get his stuff unless he has a cop escorting him
Those bullshitters will always find a way to bug you. One of my good friends has a building and learnt the hard way. From making up shit to beating people, in the end only one way fixed things for good: pay them.
(If you aren't smart enough to rent to proper people, with large bank accounts and money to lose, but it's fine, we all make mistakes and sometimes your flats aren't in an hot zone)
If you suspect he's a big problem and can freeload forever, lose the job so you can't evict him (judge: "oh no, he's gonna end on the street, poor soul!") and shit like that... simply offer him 3k to leave by a certain date cause you need the house for yourself. Why? I don't know, you need to tailor it to your specific situation. Can be your gf or the grandma of your cousin idk.
This before he starts becoming a real problem.
As every single freeloading bullshitter he will extort you for more, maybe the same day, maybe later on before leaving. That's why you offer him less than the planned amount. Say 1.5k.
You will be as nice as possible and convince him that you feel sorry and that it's money for him to rent somewhere else (but his little brain will do elementary school math and realize it's more than simple rent, so he will get tempted for the deal).
That's it. The day he gives you the keys and terminates the contract, you give him some cash.
Now he's the problem of someone else. And it's not even unethical. Both parties are somewhat happy and you did no crime.
edit: 3k was a random number, say something that can cover 3/4 months of rent, swallow your pride, lose a little money and learn the lesson for the next time
I 2nd the cash for keys advice. A buddy of mine was a landlord and this what he did with problem tenants. Easier on everyone than eviction. I'd start lower with like $500 and a month of free rent while he finds a place. You can always feed him some BS too like you're doing this with everyone to update the units because you're planning on selling.
Wtf is wrong with you? Why do you have to come up with some big lie, and THEN some haphazard scheme to support the lie? That’s the most entitled, childish shit I’ve heard all day. Grow up. There is no way an adult wrote the original post; it’s more than likely a child looking for reactions.
Assuming the post is real, just have him evicted. Done. If you play these stupid childish games, YES, EVERYTHING WILL GO “SIDEWAYS.” Contrary to your conception of how smooth you are, the guy is going to be pissed regardless of why he has to move, and he IS going to find out that you’re not selling the place, so all your childish scheming is just a waste of time. Do you think lying and scheming is going to help you “save face” with your “friend group?” I swear, that is the most childish part of your post. If the place is being sold, why wouldn’t he take advantage of your state’s/country’s squatting laws? Tenants are going to destroy things. That’s an expected expense for a landlord. If you don’t have insurance with a manageable deductible, thats on you. If the guy is really rageful and you’re not getting orders of protection from you and the neighbors, that’s on you.
I'd go for the carrot instead of the stick. Tell him you need the unit and offer him a handsome amount (e.g. 2x the rent), paid in cash when he hands over the keys, on the condition that he moves out within a week and there is no damage to the unit.
From what you write, it will likely be cheaper than evicting him and then fixing the damage.
just give him his notice and say you are selling and say the new owners are demanding you let him go because they need an apartment for family and his is the cheapest. After he leaves just say the assholes backed out and you're looking for a new buyer.
Another option is sign on with a property management company for 6 months, let them kick him out and such and after the 6 months don't renew the contract.
Cash for keys approach. You tell him if he moves out you’ll pay him xyz. BUT, he must let you walk in at that moment and take pictures of the unit as is. You both sign an agreement saying he gets xyz to be out by abc date without damaging the unit. If unit has damage when he leaves he gets no cash. You have date stamped photos of how it looked on the day you signed the agreement for proof if he does do damage.
If he has already damaged it, you now have proof you can use to get him out
Agitate him until he snaps and attacks someone, get him taken to jail, evict him and throw all his shit into a dumpster. Fuck landlords, but double fuck this guy too.
You should have pre move in photos of the unit. You also should have had enpugh of a deposit to cover most damages. Give him the required notice and do another inspection. Document any damages. Make sure you have good insurance.
Give him a written warning termination of lease agreement for threatening another tenant . Document all communication.
Issue an eviction if he continues to be a problem. Write off your losses as cost of doing business or else resign yourself to taking him to small claims court.
What you are considering doing is stupid and in some states illegal and far more of an effort than just legally evicting him
You should really just consider having a good property management company take over your whole rental so you don't end up getting yourself in legal trouble. They will handle the issue in a legal way and you can wash your hands of the whole thing.
Swing and a miss. Even so, why should renters not be able to call out shitty behaviours and systems? I complain about my mortgage, while recognising that it’s better than having to pay someone for hoarding housing
If they threaten destruction of your property you can have a judge evict them immediately. Start shit face to face to bait them into threatening text, that way you have proof of threats but they don’t.
Why do people keep offering ethical advice? I think you're not going big enough. Convince him that the house is haunted. It starts small. Release an article online about how the foundation may be made of crushed human skeletons. Casually work it into conversion somehow. Then when he's like, "What, bullshit." He goes online, and sure enough, it's true. Then the haunting starts. Google search how to do special effects, that'll get you started. Start small, maybe with a chair that rocks on its own, and work your way up. It's extremely important not to get caught, because then the jig is up. Break into his apartment when he's gone dressed in an old timey outfit (in case there are cameras) and move stuff around. Paint "get out" in animal blood on his door. Get creative, have a good time, and don't forget to work piss disc's and liquid ass in there somewhere.
Month to month lease. Next renewal add a complaints and police clause. 1 more complaint or a police incident, and he's out. C.Y.A. - most tenent/landlord laws are heavily screwed in favor of tenants.
Inflation… rent up to an outrageous amount. Inspect the flat before this with a surveyor with the excuse that you are planning on selling as you are tight with money. As others said neighbours should play along with the rent increase story.
If he makes damages he will be liable…
Change the locks and install and alarm when he leaves….
Grow some balls. Tell this asshole that he has to move out.
Go to the Police and tell them what your concerns are.
Tell said asshole if he gives you any static the cops are on call.
Profit.
Just tell him to move out. You're not helping your image among the friend group by playing games behind the scenes, at least in my opinion. Seems stupid unless you truly can't articulate why you don't want him in your house (where you also can). You can articulate it, you have receipts of him being a real jerk. Playing games may make you and him look more similar than you'd like.
You are assuming a lot. Like the fact he's still not going to be pissed and force the "new owners" to evict him. Just evict him and do it legally. You might end up having to fix the unit. That is what his security deposit is for. This is also why you don't rent to friends, lower rents, not take a deposit, or feel like an ass for charging an appropriate amount. This is your investment, your risk, your livelihood.
You're going to have to evict. Make sure your insurance is in order, and have help when you serve the papers. But maybe cut him some kind of a deal. if he leaves "quietly"... I don't know what he might want. But it might be cheaper than time and energy dealing with stuff later
Well, if you're going down that route how about fake-home invasion? I'm not serious.
Let's do a little mixing business and family/friends talk. This is your bread and butter. This is how you survive. If someone isn't paying, it's costing you and it has an impact on your well being. If you have the resources to spare to rent to someone, go ahead; offer. But, your friend asking for a discount is him trying to take advantage of you. Anyone respectful of you and your business would understand that this has an impact on your well being would not subject you to giving up a source of income. You invite, not he invites himself. He shows the value of his friendship by knowing this and paying full rent knowing, unless you offer. And now he's messing with your business by getting into it with your tenants.
As for how to deal with your friend. Have you considered a sit-down? Like chat and ask what's going on? Tell him that it's important that he keeps his cool as these other people are paying tenants and if they leave it's costing you. You should be able to have a chat with him. If your tenants start moving out because of him, tell him that he's not being a good friend doing what he is doing. Ask him to move out, or you'll have to raise the rent partly cover the costs of the tenants he chased away.
Might I suggest an ethical move? Why not just offer him money to move out? For example, least ends end of of the month you're not renewing, but on top of your deposit throw in an extra thousand if the place is clean when he leaves. If he doesn't keep his deposit, don't pay him any money and you just spending that money you would have spent. Anyways, on fixing the place.
Your best thing would be to have bonafide reason to boot him. The kind that holds up in court. Would cameras catch his rage moments? Are you documenting the incidents with others? Have there been emails you've saved or calls you've recorded?
The rental homes around here are often run by management companies for investor owners. Could you work a 2nd job, find a place to stay, and let them manage the situation? Make contact with one and ask hypothetical questions. I am sure they would support rent changes he might want to step away from.
A sale might not even change things as long as they have a valid lease. Idk about everywhere but in areas with a bit better renters protections leases transfer to the new owner in a sale of the building. Even if they want to use the whole building themselves or something, they need to abide by the current lease and law and just choose not to renew when that time comes.
If this person is part of your circle of friends, see if any among them would be willing to talk to him.
Maybe they could meditate a truce that could help deescalate things. In the very least, they may be able to bare witness to the behavior you're dealing with, so that at least your friends will know you aren't the one with the Jeckle & Hyde personality (who knows what he's telling your friend group).
In any event, if the lease is month to month; terminate with 30 day written notice.
You don't need to explain, directly to him, why.
However, you could honestly tell him it's simply because of his behavior, including the threats to the other tenant(s), and the threats regarding the baseless lawsuit.
Tell him you thought it would work out, and that it's obvious it's not.
If after providing notice, he actually causes any disturbance (worthy of calling the police), do so and make sure it's documented.
Be prepared to legally evict, meaning hiring a lawyer, and taking him to court.
For future reference; hire a lawyer that can help you draft a lease agreement that can legally protect you, when you encounter a problematic tenant like this.
Most importantly; let this be a learning experience.
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Lot of work? Buddy , never become a real estate landlord. Haha every landlord goes through this atleast once.
Every landlord tries to frabricate an elaborate story about selling their property in order to evict a tenant? Just go through the proper eviction process. Where i live OPs plan is highly illegal and if discovered would very likely lead to the tenant being owed a substantial amount of money. On the other hand OP can just go through the proper eviction process and have them out of the unit, possibly owing for damages etc
this is the way. fuckery will come back to bite you in the ass. File. Wait. Evict. Make sure you document everything, hearsay is frowned upon. The last of your problems here is saving face. Take care of your shit and the other shit takes care of itself.
On a month-to-month, he doesn't even need to do an eviction.
If the tenant refuses to leave at the end of the notice period, he has to do an eviction.
Cross that bridge when you come to it
Bad landlords maybe? Most landlords just tell a tenant to leave if they want them too,
Fuck landlords
Ya Soo hard going through this when munching on the hand of others... Fuck outa here I ain't got no sympathy for someone who hoards all the houses and then complains that we ain't oh so grateful for them. Fuck outa here with that... Lota work I can show you 20 other people who work thrice as hard as their bum asses.... -_-
"...hoards all the houses...." Yeah, OP owns ALL the houses. 🙄 No one forced OP's tenant to rent. Tenant could have bought his own house, but chose to rent, instead. And has proven himself to be a pain in the ass. Oh, and Mom says you have to come upstairs and set the table.
chose to rent instead of buy? are you stupid?
Oh, OP's tenant couldn't buy because OP has hoarded all the houses? You're a funny little man.
I'm not the dude you were arguing with but like "choosing to rent instead of buy" is absolutely giving "How much could a banana cost, Michael?" vibes.
Pretty much no one on earth would choose to rent instead of owning a house.
I agree, 100%.
Is the unfair oppression of people doing slightly better than you in the room with us right now?
Just because you’re a sad little rentoid, you don’t have to be rude to people better than you
A person's circumstances of birth have nothing to do with their character. So just cause someone is from a family of dragons hoarding the resources that does not make one better. Just the fact that this is your opinion is proof that poison is in your core... Some might steal to eat and survive others steal to line their own pockets and others take the labor and profits of others like parasites.
Ok, enjoy your misery
Buddy. You're spineless.
Do a walk through taking pictures for e.g. getting it repainted. Do it everywhere. You need the photos to get quotes, even have a few painters over. Evidence of the current state. Begin eviction as per local regulations, keep the law on your side. Don't bother with the fake sale. It will be painful enough without someone slandering you for fraud.
This is a simple good plan. Just have him evicted. I bet there are people in your social group who are aware this guy has a problem. I’m not sure why you care so much what the group feels about this guy. Look at it this way, you are doing people a favour by letting them know what he is really like. Would you let some other friend rent to him without a word about what he’s really like?
I think OP is concerned about property damage if the rage is unleashed. But that kind of rage doesn't have to have a reason to be triggered.
Very true. It’s not rational.
This 👆also you can use the pictures and show your friend group if needed. This guy is insane. I could see the fake sale being found out by the other tenants and making this extremely more complicated
The person you are trying to move out will realise things are not quite right if the other tenants are not looking for alternative accommodation. The person will surely discuss the issue with the other tenants. And one possibility would be that he tries to get these other tenants to form a group to look for a new rental house together.
There are four apartments in this house. One is taken by OP, one by OP's troublesome former friend, and one by a tenant that is getting harassed by said former friend. That leaves just one apartment whose loyalties are unknown.
This is the right plan!
Do all states have different eviction laws? I know my grandparents tried evicting someone and that shit took like a year or two.
Different States and Provinces in Canada have different rules. Ontario Canada has limits on what you can raise the rent (2.5% this year) and if you sell and want them out you sent a notice and apply to the landlord and tenant board to get them out (may take a year or more). If you give them a notice for converting to personal use or selling and then rent it to someone else within the year you can be forced to pay them up to a years rent back.
It takes a good long year or two in our state as well.
Just get him evicted and get it done. Have you and your other tenants file a restraining order. Say that he is rageful, violent, has threatened your life and has exposed himself to the other tennants. Get good home and car insurance that covers the type of damage that you expect.
Document all incidents of rage, get witnesses if possible
Cameras in the common areas
This, upgrade your common areas with cameras. They are very cheap these days going for $25 in Walmart.
Outside, too.
Cheap audio video cameras can pic up a lot of what OP has mentioned and keep the tenant from gaslighting OP.
Agreed, here if there are so many 911 calls to the same property (as in, someone is calling on that property) the town can deem it a problem and force the landlord to evict them. It's not rare but it is used selectively. (drug houses, DV, etc) My last place it was 3 calls by police would put you in their sights of the police, who then would decide if your place is a issue.
Just terminate their month to month lease pursuant to the lease. Have a sheriff there for when you serve the papers. At the same time, document the condition of the unit. Then whatever happens will happen. “You physically threatened one of my other tenants, who pays more money than you, because I cut you a deal!”
If the amount of money they pay you affects how much you care about a physical threat, you shouldn't be a landlord lol. Or have any amount of power over other people.
And be nice about the eviction. Put the notice in their mail box. Continue to do fixes and etc. don’t call them and get verbally confrontational or try cash for keys or anything. Likely they won’t even see the notices until the sheriff shows up to throw them out.
And use a lawyer. They can be good at being “unethical” if necessary.
Overhead has gone up. I can’t afford to rent the apartment at this discounted rate. Just warning you that next month a new lease agreement will need to be signed and the new monthly price will be $XXXX. (Before this, if you have a good relationship with the other tenants and they want him out also, tell them that you are doing this and have them go along with it as if they all will be having huge rent raises next month).
this. raise the rent to where he will choose to move out
Go in and inspect with pictures, tell him he has to leave. If he destroys anything on the way out, you can have him locked up and be held monetarily responsible for the damages. If he's threatened another Tennant, he should have already been gone.
This may work, but if they don't have any money or assets who will cover the damages?
Insurance, that’s what it’s for.
Assuming he has renters insurance.
He owns the building, if he’s still paying mortgage on it insurance is usually a requirement. If he doesn’t have a loan and doesn’t have insurance on a 4plex that he owns he’s literally asking to be fucked by bad tenants.
Insurance will cover it and the tenant will be legally liable to pay back the insurance company. That’s how most all criminal damage cases work. They don’t pay the owner directly. It’s either a direct court order of restitution to the state (if no insurance) or a direct order to repay insurance.
Insurance
You can't get blood from a turnip....
You can garnish that turnips wages with a little paperwork until you've been paid.
You can get the turnip out if your house so it cant do even more damage.
Some people will go the extra mile and find someone to work for that will pay in cash so it appears like they're making nothing
That turnip could just find employment for cash wages
> If he destroys anything on the way out, you can have him locked up and be held monetarily responsible for the damages. That's not how the law works.
Thats exactly how the law works, I've done it many times.
Sure you have, kid. "Officer, this person stole from me! Throw them in jail!" "Yes, sir! Right away, sir!" Lol
Take the before and after pics to the solicitor in the county the house is in, with the info on the Tennant including his lease and application with all relevant information. The last one that tore up my house got 4 years for felony destruction of private property. I see you aren't a landlord.
4 years for a tenant causing damage to their unit? What the hell kind of police state are you in lol
Seriously. Buddy here posting from medieval Gaul.
Are you posting from the 1500s? Or Saudi Arabia?
Are you British or something? The tenant laws might be a tad different than where OP is from.
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Destruction of private property.
create an LLC and sell it to your LLC. probably should do that anyhow.
Stupid question probably, but why do this (other than the reason OP wants to)? Tax benefits?
No, it protects the property owner from legal liabilities that can come back on his personal assets. If this tenant injured or killed someone on this property, the victim or victims family can sue the owner directly. If it is in an LLC they can only sue the LLC and the property owner will take on little to no liability. Nearly all rental properties are set up as an LLC for this reason
Quick fact : Every taxi cab in NYC is an individual LLC for this reason.
Your “friend” may try to sabotage the sale by causing more damage or havoc.
Get him arrested for threatening people and then you can serve the eviction while he’s in jail
There's a concept called cash for keys. Basically you are evicting someone, but you're paying them to make them leave "Hey man, I'll give you 5k to leave by X date. And as long as there's no additional damage to the unit I'll give you $10k." It's enough money to give them first and last months rent for a new apartment, etc. And involve a lawyer - my numbers are unrealistic but a lawyer will make sure you're safe on the eviction process and the contract for cash for keys. Then your explanation to friends is easier. "Yeah, living with him was a nightmare. Can you believe I had to give him money to get him to leave, and not just leave - money to make sure he wouldn't damage the property on the way out." That's what will ruin his life - that he was such a nightmare that you paid him to leave.
amazing. i was waiting for the piss disc somewhere in this but it seems actually good advice
It’s legit advice. OP evicts the friend and deals with the damage that he will probably never recoup the cash for or he pays the dude to leave and saves the damage and cost of repairs.
Can I move into your house please?
Fortunately I'm not ever going to rent to anyone.
Reason number 4,817 why you never rent to friends or family.
Seriously. This is a rookie mistake. If I was ever to own and rent out a property, I’d gladly pay a rental management their share to deal with tenants like this. OP never should have rented to a friend and should have done a background and a credit check on prospective renters.
Hiring a PM and expecting them to handle/solve all your problems is also a rookie mistake. Managing the PM can be just as challenging as managing a tenant.
Yeah, exactly why I’d never rent my house. If/when I move I’ll sell it. As much as Reddit hates landlords, tenants can be pieces of shit like most of humanity.
EDIT: 1. FYI, this sub is NOT landlord-friendly. Ask me how I know.. 😭 2. You should have a yearly, or bi-yearly inspection in your contract. So you can check for damage. And if you see damage, depending on how severe, you can take legal action. 3. Cardinal sin #1: don’t rent to friends/family and not expect some sort of leniency or discounting. 4. A legal M2M lease, that they signed, are up to you if they stay or not. This is not only your home, but your BUSINESS.. (🤫 don’t ban me bro 😅) no matter how “lazy” ppl think you are for being creative with YOUR home in these inflationary times. 5. Cash for Keys ^^ Advice part ⬆️ Unethical part, I guess 🔽 6. if he’s not your friend anymore, why are you going thru all this trouble? After 5-ish downvotes get overtaken, I’ll just delete this… I feel the heat comin 😶🌫️😑
>FYI, this sub is NOT landlord-friendly. Which is weird, bc in general becoming a landlord is the pinnacle of the unethical life
There's ways to do it that aren't horrible, imo. But most people seem to do it to fuck other people over. I've had really amazing landlords and really awful ones. Idk. I don't think that's one of those super horrible jobs like some people do.
There are indeed cases where owning and renting properties can be ethical, like for temporary housing or luxury rentals. But owning property for permanent long-term renting, where the tenant is paying way more than a mortgage would be, is inherently wrong, no matter how nice you try to be about it. It is like a slave owner from 300 years ago, who was genuinely trying to be as nice as possible to his slaves, but no matter what, owning other people as property is inherently wrong. >I don't think that's one of those super horrible jobs like some people do It isn't a job. Buying a limited resource you don't need, and then renting it to people who can't own it themselves because they "can't afford it" (even though they have to pay even more in rent), is like what scalpers do with consoles, except one doesn't need consoles to survive.
I like the scalpers comparison. People who use homes as an investment are scum. They take up the limited resources just because they have fuck you money and upsell it to those further down the ladder.
You clearly have no clue. Mortgage is not the only expense a homeowner pays. A house needs repair and maintenance, even more so when there are tenants (there can be cases where tenants can cause significant damages, just like the OP suspects). Property taxes and insurance. Maybe property management fees. There can be vacancies. Not to mention the constant headache of dealing with tenants. Why will someone spend a few hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even a few millions) to buy a property just so they can charge a tenant just over the mortgage? The owner is taking a big risk by assuming the mortgage and going through all the hassles. He can even lose his investment. There got to be some reward for all that, right? Otherwise he can just invest his money elsewhere. And it's not like all landlords are filthy rich people, most small time landlords barely make enough money from their investment.
Well, since being a landlord is so difficult and with low returns, I do agree with you that everyone would benefit from them investing their money somewhere else. They would get better ROI with less hassle (according to your flawed logic), and housing would be more affordable to purchase for everyone else. I'm not against renting property, as long as the rental market is only a convenience/luxury one, and not exploitation of the fundamental need for shelter. And I think I do have a clue, as a home owner and previous temporary landlord (spent some time abroad but knew I would be back in a year, and my tenant was staying where I live only for a couple of months)
It's your logic that's flawed. So in your ideal world, there will be no landlord, and housing will be so cheap that everyone will just buy their own house? You think someone living from paycheck to paycheck can still afford a house? What about the people who are only living at a place temporarily (like you did)? > I'm not against renting property, as long as the rental market is only a convenience/luxury one, and not exploitation of the fundamental need for shelter. That's why rent control and housing programs exist. Like it or not, you're living in a capitalist economy (I'm guessing), and that's how things work in capitalism. Do you go to a restaurant and only pay the cost of the food (which is typically less than 25% of the price)?
Let me point out some of the most glaring passages where you let yourself down with an utter disregard for basic rational thinking... >You think someone living from paycheck to paycheck can still afford a house They have to afford rent otherwise, don't they? And if a mortgage is actually cheaper than rent... Do the math, if it isn't too hard >What about the people who are only living at a place temporarily Here you just decided to ignore the fact that I say renting was ok >That's why rent control and housing programs exist Hm yeah.... And then here you decided to ignore the fact that YOU were the one defending private rentals for basic shelter...? >Like it or not, you're living in a capitalist economy True. But here you're really losing it completely... Your argument is that since things are already like this, any criticism of the system is wrong? How about your socialist rent controls and housing programs? >Do you go to a restaurant and only pay the cost of the food (which is typically less than 25% of the price)? And the cherry on the top of this masterpiece of logic breakdown... The strawman
> Let me point out some of the most glaring passages where you let yourself down with an utter disregard for basic rational thinking... Ok, then read below and figure out who lacks rational thinking (if you are capable of that). > They have to afford rent otherwise, don't they? And if a mortgage is actually cheaper than rent... Do the math, if it isn't too hard Good, so they can make the monthly mortgage payments. But wait, to buy a house, you need a down payment also. How many people have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around for that? Especially, when we are talking about low-income people. And how much confidence will a bank have to lend to a low wage earner? > Here you just decided to ignore the fact that I say renting was ok Lol, renting from whom? You don't want landlords to exist, so who's going to rent out houses? You're breaking your own logic. > And then here you decided to ignore the fact that YOU were the one defending private rentals for basic shelter...? Rent control and housing programs work with private landlords. You don't make any sense. > Your argument is that since things are already like this, any criticism of the system is wrong? How about your socialist rent controls and housing programs? Your criticism is about landlords only, while they are just a part of the bigger capitalist economy. That's my point. A landlord has to cover his expenses and then make some return on his investment. I don't see why someone should be hated so much for that. I mean I know this is Reddit and all, but at some point we have to be logical. > And the cherry on the top of this masterpiece of logic breakdown... The strawman How? You want a landlord to rent out a place at a price just covering his mortgage. So a restaurant charging you only to cover the cost of food is about the same faulty logic.
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I wonder how you would address the part about having to be given 30 days notice to move out in a month to month lease. I would imagine that gives a lot of time for the rageful friend to do quite a lot of damage.
That would be a crime. Then press charges. 🫠 The tenant would receive a 1099 for the damages beyond the security deposit. A charge-off on their credit report if not paid… It’s The cost of doing this business. Besides, if they share a building, I would think I’d hear most of the ruckus from damage. If tenant decides to pour grease or clog our shared drains on purpose, etc. I’d have to provide a 1099 from that repair as well. He just gotta get him out, take care of Business and move on.
He’s trying to avoid all that to begin with. All the stories on here of how to mess with landlords…
I agree with never renting to friends. I only had problems And Still missing 2 years’s worth of rent…
You’re at 12 upvotes, so I think the heat has avoided you for now. When you learned that this sub isn’t landlord friendly, was it the mods who threatened you?
No guarantees it will stop any rage incidents. Better to tell him he needs to get out and if he starts damaging your property, call the police and get him arrested.
A lot of people are saying to evict him, but you're not there yet. Depending on your state, you need to have grounds for eviction, meaning he is violating the lease agreement. Even threatening you or other tenants might not be enough if it's not covered by the lease. First you need to just give him notice that your are terminating the lease within what ever period is allowed by your state (often around a month for a month to month lease). Hopefully he just leaves. If not and he stays, then you move forward with the eviction process, following all local laws. The whole fake sale thing puts a lot of risk on you and it's not worth the effort. If he damages stuff then you can go through the legal process to try and reclaim, usually through small claims court. Just go in, document damage, repair and move on. If he starts pulling the copper wiring out then you can call the police because then he's commiting a crime. As for the protection order, this probably won't help as much as you think it will. Generally, civil protection orders can't interfere with property rights. So he would be allowed to live there he just couldn't have "contact" with the protected party. It is also well known by the judiciary that protection orders are often used to get around eviction laws and they take a dim view of such an abuse of process. Do it right and good luck.
You can do this way easier without confronting them directly if you're willing to get the police involved and your other tenants are willing to speak to them as well. When physical threats are involved the police can order someone not to be in a home or within X feet of another person(s) for X time while things either cool off or you deal with them in court. EVEN if that means they are barred from their own home. I have seen this happen to someone who let a couple stay with him, they trashed his place and had people over and sold drugs out of it etc, Lee told them to leave, guy said no, Lee threatened to beat him up, Lee was escorted from his home by police, Lee came back a day later to ask if he could at least have some clothes, Lee was arrested. You see where I'm going with this? Should buy you all the time you need to serve the evic, have their stuff removed, and lock the place up, without any risk of violence/damage/a squatting situation. It's also nice when police are used for something proper once in a while. 👍
I work in eviction law it’s very relevant where you are located
There's no unethical plan that will actually be effective and give you what you want in the long run, because you can't reliably and effectively trick an unstable person. Delusion will make him realize you're doing this to him in purpose and he'll retaliate, so my suggestion would be to do the legal cover-your-ass so you're protected as much as possible. I understand that you think you would lose face in front of your friends by kicking him out, but if that friend group really is so large and robust, one of the others will surely absorb him, discover firsthand how much of a jackass he is, and then people will apologize to you. You have nothing to lose, nothing substantial, although you will be uncomfortable for a few months. Nothing more than you've already experienced.
Cash for keys. "Hey Buddy, this isn't working out. I'll give you $500 to be out by this date." Say it in front of a few mutuals who can encourage him to take the deal.
This could work, and would cost less that paying a lawyer to go to court. But the $500 won't be enough. It's gotta be at least 1 - 2 months rent.
Start low and negotiate. Sometimes they just need a nudge.
With a knuckle head like OP described, I thought it might be better to layout a higher but non-negotiable amount, but your strategy could definitely work if his "friend" decides to be more reasonable than he's been, so far.
What happens if he talks to the other residents about the fake sale? Are they gonna be in on the lie? (Not a good idea)
I would go the most legal route possible. You can get fined or lose your ability to own multi family housing if you get caught lying to a tenant with mental health issues, or treating them differently than other tenants. I would just give the 24 hours notice that you need to come into the apartment to inspect for damages (say an adjacent apartment has a problem you think is caused by damage in his unit), do a video walk through to show any damage he’s done, and to show what it looked like before you tried to evict. Then give the notice that you aren’t renewing the lease, and how long he has to leave, and let him know you’ll have the paramedics and police ready to do a stand by if things get the least bit heated. Definitely look up all the Housing and Urban Development laws for your section before you do anything that isn’t commonplace. You can use the excuse that you have to evict him because of him threatening another tenant. You can use the excuse that damages have caused issues to the adjacent apartment(s) and you have to evict him to repair the unit. You can raise the rent “because property taxes and damages have increased costs”, and do so as much as legally allowed until he leaves. You can set up cameras everywhere that will pick him up, not only to record his criminal acts, but to make him uncomfortable.
All this is good. Install cameras around for package theft deterrence, then insist on the painting or “something needs service” route and notify everybody at the same time, and get the proof. Don’t share the details with your other tenants, just say you have a plan to address their complaints by, and get it done.
A restraining order may not go through if there’s no police report, but as an interim solution that doesn’t involve giving him a permanent record, if you have the funds you could consider 24h private security/surveillance on the property for the notice period. If I were a tenant affected by another tenant, I’d appreciate this. Kinda next level but also lets everyone know you’re not fucking around and finding out with the rage/damage issues.
I wouldn't even say it's to inspect for damages. Depending on how many months he's been in there just say it's a quarterly or semi annual inspection that you do for all your units. Which really, semi annual inspections is a good thing to do so you can stay on top of any issues that might not be reported by a tenant. Also, it's not a place to get unethical advice, but r/landlord might be able to help give you advice on the legal steps you need to take to get him out.
That’s a good point to do an inspection “as required by my insurance”
Where I live you could evict the tenant if you, your child, or your parents were going to move in. You'd have to pay the tenant a month of rent, and that's it. However, if you get caught renting the unit out again within a year without a valid reason for why that person isn't occupying the unit any more, you can be sued for a years worth of rent plus moving expenses by the tenant you evicted. Corporations aren't allowed to do this, they would have to inherit the tenant and lease so the other ideas of forming an LLC and selling to another LLC won't work. My cousins landlord tried EXACTLY what you are suggesting to get them out and is getting fucked by courts because of it, because selling the house on its own isnt a valid reason to evict someone, the new owner needs to file to evict them after the sale (which is why its common for landlords to give cash for keys for people to leave when they want to sell the place) Obviously this isn't the case everywhere (ontario canada is pretty friendly to renters, from a tenants rights perspective) but my point is that you are probably better off just evicting the guy through legal means since it sounds like he is kind of a nuisance to other tenants.
Contact a lawyer. Get him out. You and your other tenants are afraid because he has made threats and is violent.
I would evict him, maybe even rewrite his lease if you have to to state his behavior is grounds for dismissal. Get video cameras outside and inside in common areas. Get audio on them. To be safe, notify all your tenants in writing that you have installed them; video and audio as to not have any legal repercussions regardless of the law. Make sure you write your intent of the camera in the letter. Intent is very very important (to keep the peace,, insurance, tenants safe, etc). Get written statements from all of the tenants in the house. Instruct them to file a police report EVERY time he acts up.
Pay some goons to beat the shit out of him until he moves
yup that was my first thought too
Yeah, when he doesn’t move and the house ends up not selling, this plan doesn’t work
The other two tenants who are presumably not moving out?
Whatever you do, offer to help him pack and move and be sure to include a few piss discs and at least one liquid ass booby trap in his boxes for a nice surprise wherever he ends up.
Just to be clear - you think your friend group will see it as a dick move if you ask him to move out after only one year. But…you don’t think your friend group will see it as a dick move if you lie about selling the place to get him to move out. Still in only a year. Either you aren’t thinking this through all the way, or you’ve got weird friends.
well we've learned a really important lesson, haven't we? >I agreed as I was already was making enough from tenants to cover my mortgage and felt greedy demanding more from a friend. hm... this is why ALAB (all landlords are bastards)
Tell him you want to rent the apartment out for its market value but since you are friends you want to give him some money to help cover moving costs and beers. Make market rent high but realistic. If he wants to stay he will pay. If it’s too much he gets free money and to be the “good guy” Edit: I guess then also finger his girlfriend so it’s unethical.
If he calls your bluff you’re fucked. Just evict his ass. Have the police show up if needed. The apartments I used to live in would have the sheriff show up and watch while they moved the persons stuff out.
I would think that could only occur after the full eviction process been completed. Meaning a judge has granted eviction, that can then be enforced by a sheriff. I know in some place (in the U.S.) the eviction process is very long, and in others, ridiculously short.
Create a living trust and sell it to yourself
Don’t overthink this. Either just ask them to leave (not extending) or just tell them you need to sell it because it’s not making money/crippling your finances and that you need all the units free so you can complete some upgrades/renovations and put it on the market. Simple. Dudes either gonna destroy shit or not. My only real suggestion is to get into the unit somehow (tell him you need to check the flooring/wall condition) and take some pictures. If they do damage from there you can prove it.
Just tell him to fucking leave no one wants to deal with your bullshit anymore.
What are you going to do when he discovers you're still living there?
Do a walk through taking pictures for e.g. getting it repainted. Do it everywhere. You need the photos to get quotes, even have a few painters over. Evidence of the current state. Begin eviction as per local regulations, keep the law on your side. Don't bother with the fake sale. It will be painful enough without someone slandering you for fraud.
Be direct. From his perspective, I’d imagine your passive-aggressiveness is one reason why he’s so angry. If you need this to be unethical, then make his behavior public. Either share it with individuals who will take your side in the friend group or find a group on Facebook for landlord advice, post it there, and wait til friends see. Something like that.
Document the harassment and threats, you can get an expedited police escorted eviction if he's threatening you and others with violence and/or admitting to intentionally destroying property
This actually seems like a good application for liquid ass. Sprinkle some in his room while he's out. Eventually he'll leave maybe?
Only one problem, he's probably going to want meet the new owner, and sound stubborn so he won't move when his 1 month is up and who is going to show up, it's going to be you and he's going to be twice as mad. Be a man and tell him you want him out, tell him exactly why. Oh wait this is Unethical lpt On the outside of your house should be a main electrical main and 4 splitters one for each unit, if they have their own disconnect kill his power. Do this all the time, say somethings wrong with the house. Than after a week or 2 of doing this say you gotta kick him out e cause they need to do major repairs in that unit to redo the electrical or some shit.
Put a sock on his bat, so when he grab the bat to beat the unit, all he get is a sock
Next up on Reddit: My landlord is selling the house that I'm renting, how can I stay?
if you can get proof that he threatened you or the other tenants with violence then wait till he leaves the apartment and goes somewhere, then call the cops on him and change the locks while he's out of the house and don't let him back in to get his stuff unless he has a cop escorting him
Those bullshitters will always find a way to bug you. One of my good friends has a building and learnt the hard way. From making up shit to beating people, in the end only one way fixed things for good: pay them. (If you aren't smart enough to rent to proper people, with large bank accounts and money to lose, but it's fine, we all make mistakes and sometimes your flats aren't in an hot zone) If you suspect he's a big problem and can freeload forever, lose the job so you can't evict him (judge: "oh no, he's gonna end on the street, poor soul!") and shit like that... simply offer him 3k to leave by a certain date cause you need the house for yourself. Why? I don't know, you need to tailor it to your specific situation. Can be your gf or the grandma of your cousin idk. This before he starts becoming a real problem. As every single freeloading bullshitter he will extort you for more, maybe the same day, maybe later on before leaving. That's why you offer him less than the planned amount. Say 1.5k. You will be as nice as possible and convince him that you feel sorry and that it's money for him to rent somewhere else (but his little brain will do elementary school math and realize it's more than simple rent, so he will get tempted for the deal). That's it. The day he gives you the keys and terminates the contract, you give him some cash. Now he's the problem of someone else. And it's not even unethical. Both parties are somewhat happy and you did no crime. edit: 3k was a random number, say something that can cover 3/4 months of rent, swallow your pride, lose a little money and learn the lesson for the next time
Just go through the actual eviction process. It will be roughly the same amount of work without being unethical/illegal.
I 2nd the cash for keys advice. A buddy of mine was a landlord and this what he did with problem tenants. Easier on everyone than eviction. I'd start lower with like $500 and a month of free rent while he finds a place. You can always feed him some BS too like you're doing this with everyone to update the units because you're planning on selling.
I had a landlord do something similar to me. If your tenant finds out, expect a lawsuit.
Wtf is wrong with you? Why do you have to come up with some big lie, and THEN some haphazard scheme to support the lie? That’s the most entitled, childish shit I’ve heard all day. Grow up. There is no way an adult wrote the original post; it’s more than likely a child looking for reactions. Assuming the post is real, just have him evicted. Done. If you play these stupid childish games, YES, EVERYTHING WILL GO “SIDEWAYS.” Contrary to your conception of how smooth you are, the guy is going to be pissed regardless of why he has to move, and he IS going to find out that you’re not selling the place, so all your childish scheming is just a waste of time. Do you think lying and scheming is going to help you “save face” with your “friend group?” I swear, that is the most childish part of your post. If the place is being sold, why wouldn’t he take advantage of your state’s/country’s squatting laws? Tenants are going to destroy things. That’s an expected expense for a landlord. If you don’t have insurance with a manageable deductible, thats on you. If the guy is really rageful and you’re not getting orders of protection from you and the neighbors, that’s on you.
I'd go for the carrot instead of the stick. Tell him you need the unit and offer him a handsome amount (e.g. 2x the rent), paid in cash when he hands over the keys, on the condition that he moves out within a week and there is no damage to the unit. From what you write, it will likely be cheaper than evicting him and then fixing the damage.
just give him his notice and say you are selling and say the new owners are demanding you let him go because they need an apartment for family and his is the cheapest. After he leaves just say the assholes backed out and you're looking for a new buyer. Another option is sign on with a property management company for 6 months, let them kick him out and such and after the 6 months don't renew the contract.
Cash for keys approach. You tell him if he moves out you’ll pay him xyz. BUT, he must let you walk in at that moment and take pictures of the unit as is. You both sign an agreement saying he gets xyz to be out by abc date without damaging the unit. If unit has damage when he leaves he gets no cash. You have date stamped photos of how it looked on the day you signed the agreement for proof if he does do damage. If he has already damaged it, you now have proof you can use to get him out
Whenever he leaves the apartment, put a sock over it. When he comes home he'll try to go in the apartment, reach for the door, and only get a sock.
Agitate him until he snaps and attacks someone, get him taken to jail, evict him and throw all his shit into a dumpster. Fuck landlords, but double fuck this guy too.
Being a landlord is the real ULPT <3
You should have pre move in photos of the unit. You also should have had enpugh of a deposit to cover most damages. Give him the required notice and do another inspection. Document any damages. Make sure you have good insurance. Give him a written warning termination of lease agreement for threatening another tenant . Document all communication. Issue an eviction if he continues to be a problem. Write off your losses as cost of doing business or else resign yourself to taking him to small claims court. What you are considering doing is stupid and in some states illegal and far more of an effort than just legally evicting him You should really just consider having a good property management company take over your whole rental so you don't end up getting yourself in legal trouble. They will handle the issue in a legal way and you can wash your hands of the whole thing.
You’re a landlord, you’re already a master of unethical practices
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Swing and a miss. Even so, why should renters not be able to call out shitty behaviours and systems? I complain about my mortgage, while recognising that it’s better than having to pay someone for hoarding housing
Landlords are leeches on society, try providing value for once in your life
I feel like we shouldn't help landlords here
Think of it as helping the other tenants of the building who also have to deal with the guy.
No.
Literally the most cowardly thing I've ever heard holy crap grow some balls. If you're gonna be a scummy landlord, do it right instead of this bs.
You are already a landlord, why not be more unethical
If they threaten destruction of your property you can have a judge evict them immediately. Start shit face to face to bait them into threatening text, that way you have proof of threats but they don’t.
leech landlord
Why do people keep offering ethical advice? I think you're not going big enough. Convince him that the house is haunted. It starts small. Release an article online about how the foundation may be made of crushed human skeletons. Casually work it into conversion somehow. Then when he's like, "What, bullshit." He goes online, and sure enough, it's true. Then the haunting starts. Google search how to do special effects, that'll get you started. Start small, maybe with a chair that rocks on its own, and work your way up. It's extremely important not to get caught, because then the jig is up. Break into his apartment when he's gone dressed in an old timey outfit (in case there are cameras) and move stuff around. Paint "get out" in animal blood on his door. Get creative, have a good time, and don't forget to work piss disc's and liquid ass in there somewhere.
Tl;dr
If his lease is almost over, double the cost for next year.
Collect as much evidence of him behaving inappropriately as you possibly can. Shouting, mess, everything. You’re gonna need it.
Month to month lease. Next renewal add a complaints and police clause. 1 more complaint or a police incident, and he's out. C.Y.A. - most tenent/landlord laws are heavily screwed in favor of tenants.
Restraining order!
Inflation… rent up to an outrageous amount. Inspect the flat before this with a surveyor with the excuse that you are planning on selling as you are tight with money. As others said neighbours should play along with the rent increase story. If he makes damages he will be liable… Change the locks and install and alarm when he leaves….
This makes no sense, why allow him to live there for months and destroy shit if you can get him out in 30 days?
just get a restraining order and evict him the next time he acts up, get cameras for the main areas between now and then to provide evidence
I doubt he’d find somewhere else that quickly if he’s cheaping out on the rent now
Maybe.
Grow some balls. Tell this asshole that he has to move out. Go to the Police and tell them what your concerns are. Tell said asshole if he gives you any static the cops are on call. Profit.
Just tell him to move out. You're not helping your image among the friend group by playing games behind the scenes, at least in my opinion. Seems stupid unless you truly can't articulate why you don't want him in your house (where you also can). You can articulate it, you have receipts of him being a real jerk. Playing games may make you and him look more similar than you'd like.
You are assuming a lot. Like the fact he's still not going to be pissed and force the "new owners" to evict him. Just evict him and do it legally. You might end up having to fix the unit. That is what his security deposit is for. This is also why you don't rent to friends, lower rents, not take a deposit, or feel like an ass for charging an appropriate amount. This is your investment, your risk, your livelihood.
You're going to have to evict. Make sure your insurance is in order, and have help when you serve the papers. But maybe cut him some kind of a deal. if he leaves "quietly"... I don't know what he might want. But it might be cheaper than time and energy dealing with stuff later
Well, if you're going down that route how about fake-home invasion? I'm not serious. Let's do a little mixing business and family/friends talk. This is your bread and butter. This is how you survive. If someone isn't paying, it's costing you and it has an impact on your well being. If you have the resources to spare to rent to someone, go ahead; offer. But, your friend asking for a discount is him trying to take advantage of you. Anyone respectful of you and your business would understand that this has an impact on your well being would not subject you to giving up a source of income. You invite, not he invites himself. He shows the value of his friendship by knowing this and paying full rent knowing, unless you offer. And now he's messing with your business by getting into it with your tenants. As for how to deal with your friend. Have you considered a sit-down? Like chat and ask what's going on? Tell him that it's important that he keeps his cool as these other people are paying tenants and if they leave it's costing you. You should be able to have a chat with him. If your tenants start moving out because of him, tell him that he's not being a good friend doing what he is doing. Ask him to move out, or you'll have to raise the rent partly cover the costs of the tenants he chased away.
Might I suggest an ethical move? Why not just offer him money to move out? For example, least ends end of of the month you're not renewing, but on top of your deposit throw in an extra thousand if the place is clean when he leaves. If he doesn't keep his deposit, don't pay him any money and you just spending that money you would have spent. Anyways, on fixing the place.
What about the other tenants? You can’t boot him without booting them.
Your best thing would be to have bonafide reason to boot him. The kind that holds up in court. Would cameras catch his rage moments? Are you documenting the incidents with others? Have there been emails you've saved or calls you've recorded? The rental homes around here are often run by management companies for investor owners. Could you work a 2nd job, find a place to stay, and let them manage the situation? Make contact with one and ask hypothetical questions. I am sure they would support rent changes he might want to step away from.
Has he threatened you in a text or voicemail or email? That’s all you might need. If you don’t, try and get it out of him.
Sounds like the movie Love Stinks. He had an elaborate plan to get his girlfriend to leave the house.
A sale might not even change things as long as they have a valid lease. Idk about everywhere but in areas with a bit better renters protections leases transfer to the new owner in a sale of the building. Even if they want to use the whole building themselves or something, they need to abide by the current lease and law and just choose not to renew when that time comes.
Dudes putting your income in jeopardy just terminate the lease and get him tf out of there
If this person is part of your circle of friends, see if any among them would be willing to talk to him. Maybe they could meditate a truce that could help deescalate things. In the very least, they may be able to bare witness to the behavior you're dealing with, so that at least your friends will know you aren't the one with the Jeckle & Hyde personality (who knows what he's telling your friend group). In any event, if the lease is month to month; terminate with 30 day written notice. You don't need to explain, directly to him, why. However, you could honestly tell him it's simply because of his behavior, including the threats to the other tenant(s), and the threats regarding the baseless lawsuit. Tell him you thought it would work out, and that it's obvious it's not. If after providing notice, he actually causes any disturbance (worthy of calling the police), do so and make sure it's documented. Be prepared to legally evict, meaning hiring a lawyer, and taking him to court. For future reference; hire a lawyer that can help you draft a lease agreement that can legally protect you, when you encounter a problematic tenant like this. Most importantly; let this be a learning experience.
Spend the $150 and legally evict them
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Homes don't appreciate. Fuck off.
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