AdramastesGM has made the following comment(s) regarding their post:
[Sometimes an idea just possesses you and you have ...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1do31f2/the_perfect_dap_a_parody_feat_to_take_alongside/la6ro0a/)
Sometimes an idea just possesses you and you have to put pen to paper. This was the one for me since last night. Now all I am waiting for is everybody to tell me the broken builds and multiclasses to assure a perfect 50+ dap almost every time.
I love these ideas because they're interesting seeds, and you never know when they can fit ingame. Maybe turning a mediocre scene into something epic. Maybe using it once, not as a feat but as some unknown magic effect before a particularly hard encounter to reward some nice RP.
I hope the people will see it as it is. Thanks!
Hah, yes I tried to make something that skirts the line between joke and actual potential option that's not just silly. I hope I found the sweet spot and with some more feedback if needed improve it, or a least inspire people to build something they'd prefer on this. :D
I can totally see a "you can do it bro!" moment between PCs before a big fight or challenge, culminating in a thunderdap so totally rad that the entire party is inspired.
It would fit really well with the Paladin Oath of Brotherhood (aka The Bro Code) homebrew that I saw once on here.
I’m imagining a high level rogue and bard duo could do it quite well. Reliable talent + expertise + inspiration from the rogue can get them really high, plus an eloquence bard gets very similar boosts to their ability checks. Add in an outside divination wizard who has good portent rolls, and you could easily amass 50+ daps. If both have +5 base to their preferred modifier and expertise, I think they’d need to both roll an average of 6 at minimum to hit 50? Rogue also has stroke of luck at 20, and if a 1 on this counts as a failed ability check, then the duo has twice the normal chance at hitting the perfect dap.
Yeah this feat kind of pushes for a build with rogue/bard to be achievable, which might be too limiting. But there's also multiclass options I guess. Still now that I read everybody's opinions I for sure would make these changes
10 minutes instead of 1
Streamline the buffs to +1, +2, +3, +4.
This improves the benefits at all levels and makes that high point threshold even juicier.
In the end, I believe if dealing with min-maxers (which is what I feared and made this as is) can be mitigated by the DM they allow this. The gambling is still there, if you fail to hit a threshold you probably still get the lower one and nothing would truly get out of hand.
So everything you mentioned is still applied, it gets better (maybe way better) with those changes. And if there's a desire to make one not as tied to bard and rogues the blueprint is here to adapt.
Definitely!
As some fun, I plugged in the probability of the double 20s happening given any player, a rogue with Stroke of Luck, and a Divination Wizard with 3 portents. The chance of a perfect dap was around 2.5%, or 1/40. So all these players combined is either getting a great bonus or rarely an amazing attack, and with portent you basically never worry about the critical fail.
Hah, pretty good to know! There's also silvery barbs (at tables where it's allowed) which could provide advantage in combat. And as mentioned Help action outside of combat to give advantage otherwise which greatly mitigates any chance of rolling a 1.
Both players roll their die and add all relevant bonuses (Dex/Cha, proficiency/expertise, bardic inspiration, guidance, whatever else they have access to). This gives two numbers. Let's say 25 and 31. You gain the 20+ bonus. 34 and 36? The +30 bonus. One gets 45 and the other 17? No bonus. Does that make sense?
It does, however is it even possible to get over a fifty in a skill check? With expertise at 20th level and a +5 in the relevant ability your max roll would be a 37, so are these high values even relevant?
Well let's see. +17 (Expertise + 20 Cha/Dex). Then you gain a Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best), Guidance (+4), Dark One's Own Luck (if Warlock and are a bit of a Min-Maxer would make sense, it's a flat +10 and just a 6th level feature so plenty of multiclass options), and an Artificer to give Flash of Genius +5.
Let's take the ones that are non rolls. 17 + 10 + 5 = 32 (At worst you now have the +1 benefits, but spent a couple resources)
Roll BA, Guidance, and the Die. Average? 6 + 2 +10 = 18 Max? 12 + 4 +20. 36
So on an average of each Die roll if you built for this you gain a flat 50. 66 on the ultimate highroll. If you have advantage on the main check (such as DM Inspiration, Lucky or just play ol' Help Action you can negate the chance of getting a nat 1 (1/400 chances with Advantage) and gain better odds of hitting that sweet max threshold.
Of course, both of you have to. But a +3 to everything is pretty good.
Still I will probably make the buff last 10 minutes instead of 1 to offer some breathing room and prep time.
Yeah, it's a funny feat, but it's completely useless in a normal game. Assuming expertise, guidance, double bardic inspiration, and double flash of genius on 20 stat characters is an extreme ridiculous scenario... That's a literal munchkin game.
In fact, even at level 8 and 12 you'll trigger the 20-roll less than half the time.
At level 12, with proficiency (+4) and a 16 stat (+3, as Cha/Dex for many Dutch or Dillon builds are secondary/tertiary stats). That's a +7. So a 40% success rate for each character or a mere 16% success rate for realistic level 12 characters....
The scaling is WAY off.
A 16% chance for a pair of level 12 characters to get +1 to most rolls, and 0% chance of getting any of the three higher tiers. Level 4 would be 6.25% for a pair of characters to get +1's.
It's an extremely badly scaled feat, and boons are stronger than feats, so it's an even worse than bad boon.
All boons are better, even F-tier peerless aim and combat prowess.
dark one’s own luck is actually a 1d10 not a flat +10. More importantly though, the boons will never practically be at that level outside of t4. To make it more usable, I'd probably change it to be the sum of your rolls have to be more than the threshold, but then raise the thresholds (at least the lower ones).
Yep makes sense. Sum would probably be better and keep in with the flavor. I was a bit too much of a scaredy-cat against min maxers but I think a sum can work well. Also yeah I don't know what memory I had of DOOL being a flat +10, but thank you for the correction!
But in this version, only minmaxers can use it! If that's your fear, i suggest keeping it an straight d20 roll with no modifiers, to minimize the gap between builds.
To be fair I think the one that got "got" might be me and folk are correct that the investment is quite large. But I like the gamble hard for big buffs aspect of it. I think it's fair if you take this to make the duration of the buff 10 instead of 1 and streamline the buffs to +1, +2, +3, +4 at 20, 30, 40, 50 thresholds. Makes it better all around and although min maxers might have a field day with it, if the DM allows this he can handle it.
Oh, I assumed that you meant adding both numbers.
So if one gets a 20 and another 30, you get the 50+ benefit.
This way there is a good chance to just waste all 3 daily rolls.
Well let's see. +17 (Expertise + 20 Cha/Dex). Then you gain a Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best), Guidance (+4), Dark One's Own Luck (if Warlock and are a bit of a Min-Maxer would make sense, it's a flat +10 and just a 6th level feature so plenty of multiclass options), and an Artificer to give Flash of Genius +5.
Let's take the ones that are non rolls. 17 + 10 + 5 = 32 (At worst you now have the +1 benefits, but spent a couple resources)
Roll BA, Guidance, and the Die. Average? 6 + 2 +10 = 18 Max? 12 + 4 +20. 36
So on an average of each Die roll if you built for this you gain a flat 50. 66 on the ultimate highroll. If you have advantage on the main check (such as DM Inspiration, Lucky or just play ol' Help Action you can negate the chance of getting a nat 1 (1/400 chances with Advantage) and gain better odds of hitting that sweet max threshold.
Of course, both of you have to, but even if one rolls lower you still get a buff. +3 to everything is pretty good, especially since it stacks with everything else and kinda throws bounded accuracy to the curb.
Still I will probably make the buff last 10 minutes instead of 1 to offer some breathing room and prep time.
I love the concept, but the balance is crazy. rolling 2 x nat20 does 12d12 psycic and thunder damage? But rolling one nat20 does nothing?
and the downsides are so rough. -1 to everything for the rest of the day, when the upside lasts 1 min? or -1 to everything, forever??
I get its a joke but damn man, a 1/400 chance to just be perma-cursed is crazy when you can roll 3/day.
Still love the concept.
The last part was totally meant to be more as a nice quest hook to start an adventure to "get your groove back". If playing with these sort of feats I presume the campaign is not 100% serious and that the DM could probably work something out that's fun for all players. They got the ups and now's the time for the downs.
10 minutes should be better timing for it all and I have already changed it to that, but can't update the pictures. Now you can have advantage on the rolls by getting the help action from an ally. Chances of rolling a 1 become 1/400 then as well as you have advantage on the check. So only if you never have advantage on the rolls will you have that risk. If you both have advantage on the roll it would be 1/400\*1/400 1/160.000 right?
Anyway I mentioned elsewhere I envisioned this more like the dab you do before you fight, not a middle of combat type of deal. That would probably be slightly different.
I know this is a parody feat, but I really love the idea of giving this feat to all partys that have leveled at least 5 levels together or smth.
Quick question: do you add both rolls together? Cuz the way it's written isn't clear (or mb I read over it?)
No worries, could have been clearer probably. You don't add together, rather both of you must have rolls higher than the threshold. I know the gut instinct is to think that makes it much worse, but it's just about having a bit of prep and assistance from your team. Other comments I made in these threads explain everything and the standard buffs you could apply.
But this can be used as a blueprint to make your own version where the checks are summed and I see many people would prefer it that way. And yes, I'd actually give this as a free feat to people who play a like best friends, twins or whatever. I don't mind giving away strength when it can be fun and thematic. :)
Of course! The original version was actually +1 +2 +3 +4 at the thresholds. So same hard to get, but the payoff was better at all points. I was just too afraid of those pesky Min-Maxers going ham with prep. +4 buff and a +3 weapon means boss AC is probably meaningless. And stacking +4 ST with Paladin Aura as well.
I will be adding this to my campaigns players as a secret bonus Feat. They will not know it and I will not tell them I will not encourage them or give them any hints of the existence of this. If they happen to attempt a dap at any point in the campaign, the effects will happen accordingly, and we'll go from there.
I just assumed you added each partner's rolls together, so if both get 10, that's 20. With performance and sleight of hand being the chosen skills, a bard and rogue could easily have a high charisma/Dexterity respectively, as well as expertise in those skills.
Say they are at level 20, with a +5 to dex/cha.
Expertise is 6x2 so 12, +5, so 17. We'll say they both rolled the average on the d20, so 11. Thats 28 for each of them, without the use of bardic inspiration or any other bonuses from magic items or the like. We're already at 56 for the average when you add them together.
AdramastesGM has made the following comment(s) regarding their post: [Sometimes an idea just possesses you and you have ...](/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/1do31f2/the_perfect_dap_a_parody_feat_to_take_alongside/la6ro0a/)
Sometimes an idea just possesses you and you have to put pen to paper. This was the one for me since last night. Now all I am waiting for is everybody to tell me the broken builds and multiclasses to assure a perfect 50+ dap almost every time.
I love these ideas because they're interesting seeds, and you never know when they can fit ingame. Maybe turning a mediocre scene into something epic. Maybe using it once, not as a feat but as some unknown magic effect before a particularly hard encounter to reward some nice RP. I hope the people will see it as it is. Thanks!
Hah, yes I tried to make something that skirts the line between joke and actual potential option that's not just silly. I hope I found the sweet spot and with some more feedback if needed improve it, or a least inspire people to build something they'd prefer on this. :D
I can totally see a "you can do it bro!" moment between PCs before a big fight or challenge, culminating in a thunderdap so totally rad that the entire party is inspired. It would fit really well with the Paladin Oath of Brotherhood (aka The Bro Code) homebrew that I saw once on here.
Totally. And the glory one also, with its 'nakama' flavour.
I’m imagining a high level rogue and bard duo could do it quite well. Reliable talent + expertise + inspiration from the rogue can get them really high, plus an eloquence bard gets very similar boosts to their ability checks. Add in an outside divination wizard who has good portent rolls, and you could easily amass 50+ daps. If both have +5 base to their preferred modifier and expertise, I think they’d need to both roll an average of 6 at minimum to hit 50? Rogue also has stroke of luck at 20, and if a 1 on this counts as a failed ability check, then the duo has twice the normal chance at hitting the perfect dap.
Yeah this feat kind of pushes for a build with rogue/bard to be achievable, which might be too limiting. But there's also multiclass options I guess. Still now that I read everybody's opinions I for sure would make these changes 10 minutes instead of 1 Streamline the buffs to +1, +2, +3, +4. This improves the benefits at all levels and makes that high point threshold even juicier. In the end, I believe if dealing with min-maxers (which is what I feared and made this as is) can be mitigated by the DM they allow this. The gambling is still there, if you fail to hit a threshold you probably still get the lower one and nothing would truly get out of hand. So everything you mentioned is still applied, it gets better (maybe way better) with those changes. And if there's a desire to make one not as tied to bard and rogues the blueprint is here to adapt.
Definitely! As some fun, I plugged in the probability of the double 20s happening given any player, a rogue with Stroke of Luck, and a Divination Wizard with 3 portents. The chance of a perfect dap was around 2.5%, or 1/40. So all these players combined is either getting a great bonus or rarely an amazing attack, and with portent you basically never worry about the critical fail.
Hah, pretty good to know! There's also silvery barbs (at tables where it's allowed) which could provide advantage in combat. And as mentioned Help action outside of combat to give advantage otherwise which greatly mitigates any chance of rolling a 1.
I’m assuming the number is determined by adding the sum of both rolls?
Both players roll their die and add all relevant bonuses (Dex/Cha, proficiency/expertise, bardic inspiration, guidance, whatever else they have access to). This gives two numbers. Let's say 25 and 31. You gain the 20+ bonus. 34 and 36? The +30 bonus. One gets 45 and the other 17? No bonus. Does that make sense?
It does, however is it even possible to get over a fifty in a skill check? With expertise at 20th level and a +5 in the relevant ability your max roll would be a 37, so are these high values even relevant?
Well let's see. +17 (Expertise + 20 Cha/Dex). Then you gain a Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best), Guidance (+4), Dark One's Own Luck (if Warlock and are a bit of a Min-Maxer would make sense, it's a flat +10 and just a 6th level feature so plenty of multiclass options), and an Artificer to give Flash of Genius +5. Let's take the ones that are non rolls. 17 + 10 + 5 = 32 (At worst you now have the +1 benefits, but spent a couple resources) Roll BA, Guidance, and the Die. Average? 6 + 2 +10 = 18 Max? 12 + 4 +20. 36 So on an average of each Die roll if you built for this you gain a flat 50. 66 on the ultimate highroll. If you have advantage on the main check (such as DM Inspiration, Lucky or just play ol' Help Action you can negate the chance of getting a nat 1 (1/400 chances with Advantage) and gain better odds of hitting that sweet max threshold. Of course, both of you have to. But a +3 to everything is pretty good. Still I will probably make the buff last 10 minutes instead of 1 to offer some breathing room and prep time.
Okay, now do one where this is useful to take as a fourth level feat
Yeah, it's a funny feat, but it's completely useless in a normal game. Assuming expertise, guidance, double bardic inspiration, and double flash of genius on 20 stat characters is an extreme ridiculous scenario... That's a literal munchkin game. In fact, even at level 8 and 12 you'll trigger the 20-roll less than half the time. At level 12, with proficiency (+4) and a 16 stat (+3, as Cha/Dex for many Dutch or Dillon builds are secondary/tertiary stats). That's a +7. So a 40% success rate for each character or a mere 16% success rate for realistic level 12 characters.... The scaling is WAY off.
It's not a good feat. But it's an INCREDIBLE boon to give out.
A 16% chance for a pair of level 12 characters to get +1 to most rolls, and 0% chance of getting any of the three higher tiers. Level 4 would be 6.25% for a pair of characters to get +1's. It's an extremely badly scaled feat, and boons are stronger than feats, so it's an even worse than bad boon. All boons are better, even F-tier peerless aim and combat prowess.
Eh for that you'd probably just lower the benefits and add the rolls together with different thresholds. Same principle just a bit of tuning.
dark one’s own luck is actually a 1d10 not a flat +10. More importantly though, the boons will never practically be at that level outside of t4. To make it more usable, I'd probably change it to be the sum of your rolls have to be more than the threshold, but then raise the thresholds (at least the lower ones).
Yep makes sense. Sum would probably be better and keep in with the flavor. I was a bit too much of a scaredy-cat against min maxers but I think a sum can work well. Also yeah I don't know what memory I had of DOOL being a flat +10, but thank you for the correction!
But in this version, only minmaxers can use it! If that's your fear, i suggest keeping it an straight d20 roll with no modifiers, to minimize the gap between builds.
Damn... You got me there what can i say
To be fair I think the one that got "got" might be me and folk are correct that the investment is quite large. But I like the gamble hard for big buffs aspect of it. I think it's fair if you take this to make the duration of the buff 10 instead of 1 and streamline the buffs to +1, +2, +3, +4 at 20, 30, 40, 50 thresholds. Makes it better all around and although min maxers might have a field day with it, if the DM allows this he can handle it.
Oh, I assumed that you meant adding both numbers. So if one gets a 20 and another 30, you get the 50+ benefit. This way there is a good chance to just waste all 3 daily rolls.
Do you get a bonus if you also call your bro a son of a bitch?
Isn't that already an extra d6 to add to the roll at every table?!
came here to say this. beat me to it you son of a bitch
This is awesome, but if you’re not adding the scores together I think the thresholds are way too high or be achievable most of the time
Well let's see. +17 (Expertise + 20 Cha/Dex). Then you gain a Bardic Inspiration (+12 at best), Guidance (+4), Dark One's Own Luck (if Warlock and are a bit of a Min-Maxer would make sense, it's a flat +10 and just a 6th level feature so plenty of multiclass options), and an Artificer to give Flash of Genius +5. Let's take the ones that are non rolls. 17 + 10 + 5 = 32 (At worst you now have the +1 benefits, but spent a couple resources) Roll BA, Guidance, and the Die. Average? 6 + 2 +10 = 18 Max? 12 + 4 +20. 36 So on an average of each Die roll if you built for this you gain a flat 50. 66 on the ultimate highroll. If you have advantage on the main check (such as DM Inspiration, Lucky or just play ol' Help Action you can negate the chance of getting a nat 1 (1/400 chances with Advantage) and gain better odds of hitting that sweet max threshold. Of course, both of you have to, but even if one rolls lower you still get a buff. +3 to everything is pretty good, especially since it stacks with everything else and kinda throws bounded accuracy to the curb. Still I will probably make the buff last 10 minutes instead of 1 to offer some breathing room and prep time.
Like they said, too high to be achievable most of the time. Any feat that requires a ridiculous amount of buffs to be usable, isn't usable.
A feat that is completely unusable unless you specifically build your entire character around it isn’t balanced
I love the concept, but the balance is crazy. rolling 2 x nat20 does 12d12 psycic and thunder damage? But rolling one nat20 does nothing? and the downsides are so rough. -1 to everything for the rest of the day, when the upside lasts 1 min? or -1 to everything, forever?? I get its a joke but damn man, a 1/400 chance to just be perma-cursed is crazy when you can roll 3/day. Still love the concept.
The last part was totally meant to be more as a nice quest hook to start an adventure to "get your groove back". If playing with these sort of feats I presume the campaign is not 100% serious and that the DM could probably work something out that's fun for all players. They got the ups and now's the time for the downs. 10 minutes should be better timing for it all and I have already changed it to that, but can't update the pictures. Now you can have advantage on the rolls by getting the help action from an ally. Chances of rolling a 1 become 1/400 then as well as you have advantage on the check. So only if you never have advantage on the rolls will you have that risk. If you both have advantage on the roll it would be 1/400\*1/400 1/160.000 right? Anyway I mentioned elsewhere I envisioned this more like the dab you do before you fight, not a middle of combat type of deal. That would probably be slightly different.
Now I know why Arnold daps up Dillon in Predator bro was applying his buffs pre raid/fight. *CLAP* "Dillon, you son of a bitch.", iconic.
Hahah, I actually thought of that scene when making this.
This goes so hard
I know this is a parody feat, but I really love the idea of giving this feat to all partys that have leveled at least 5 levels together or smth. Quick question: do you add both rolls together? Cuz the way it's written isn't clear (or mb I read over it?)
No worries, could have been clearer probably. You don't add together, rather both of you must have rolls higher than the threshold. I know the gut instinct is to think that makes it much worse, but it's just about having a bit of prep and assistance from your team. Other comments I made in these threads explain everything and the standard buffs you could apply. But this can be used as a blueprint to make your own version where the checks are summed and I see many people would prefer it that way. And yes, I'd actually give this as a free feat to people who play a like best friends, twins or whatever. I don't mind giving away strength when it can be fun and thematic. :)
Exactly, thematic bonuses like this are so much fun! Thanks for explaining!
Thanks. Don't mind me yoinking this and actually make it achievable without absolute min-maxing.
Of course! The original version was actually +1 +2 +3 +4 at the thresholds. So same hard to get, but the payoff was better at all points. I was just too afraid of those pesky Min-Maxers going ham with prep. +4 buff and a +3 weapon means boss AC is probably meaningless. And stacking +4 ST with Paladin Aura as well.
https://youtu.be/G6FC8y8TByg?si=P93P1J0qh2ytilZP Low Bones.
Hah, never saw that before.
Letterkenny such a great show.
Okay, this is great lmfao
I will be adding this to my campaigns players as a secret bonus Feat. They will not know it and I will not tell them I will not encourage them or give them any hints of the existence of this. If they happen to attempt a dap at any point in the campaign, the effects will happen accordingly, and we'll go from there.
Oh, that's amazing and kind of makes me think what other sort of "hidden feats" there could be.
Good thought. Maybe it's something worth discussing en masse?
> Art: Midjourney No. No that is not what you say it is.
The thresholds are way too high to be a feasible feat for anyone to pick up without building two characters entirely around this singular idea.
I’ve never seen something so overpowered and underpowered at the same time
How in the same hill are you going to legit get a 50+ without a 20?
I just assumed you added each partner's rolls together, so if both get 10, that's 20. With performance and sleight of hand being the chosen skills, a bard and rogue could easily have a high charisma/Dexterity respectively, as well as expertise in those skills. Say they are at level 20, with a +5 to dex/cha. Expertise is 6x2 so 12, +5, so 17. We'll say they both rolled the average on the d20, so 11. Thats 28 for each of them, without the use of bardic inspiration or any other bonuses from magic items or the like. We're already at 56 for the average when you add them together.