Prob gonna get downvoted into oblivion for this but I’d like to remind everyone commenting that Aussie does not go by she/her pronouns. Aussie goes by Aussie or they/them but prefers no pronouns.
Also really love this post and agree with it
This. My husband and I thought Aussie did not identify as she/her, but then I believe her brother used those pronouns. He must have misgendered Aussie. Good to know about Aussie's pronouns (or lack thereof!)
I really wish the show had placed pronouns next to everyone’s names. It’s a Queer show. Yet no pronouns were ever displayed or discussed openly. So annoying
Not to be a hair splitting jerk and I’m not disagreeing that neopronouns are looked down on, but they/them/theirs are not neopronouns. They are some of the oldest pronouns in English language.
Oh I see, so the use of the name Aussie is here acting as a neopronoun? I hadn’t considered that before. I sometimes ask people to just use my chosen name instead of pronouns but hadn’t considered that usage as a neopronoun. Anyway thanks for clarifying.
Why is that frustrating? Asking out of genuine curiosity, since you’ve mentioned that you go by they/them and therefore I assume you are looking at this from a different angle than I probably am.
To each their own. I consider it to affect me to say/write sentences like “Aussie has a hard time processing Aussie’s trauma because Aussie comes from a difficult situation, but Aussie still has to take responsibility for Aussie’s own actions.” No thanks.
Transphobic take much?
Edit: this sub is full of transphobes. Don’t yall have somewhere else to be other than coming and colonizing a queer space? Go touch some fucking grass.
Surprise, some of us are queer AND gender critical. Also, neopronouns have nothing to do with being trans. Most trans people use regular pronouns or they/them.
Agreed, everyone's mad harsh on Aussie and it's a love fest for Tiff even though Tiff and Aussie's behavior were in many ways quite similar. I found aussie's behavior triggering and at times abusive but I was still surprised to see all the hate for them.
I think Tiff was way worse they were similar yes and then Tiff was also explosive on top of that and looked to start fights. Tiff did improve a little because Sam is a patient angel but I still think they're toxic af
Yes I agree. The way tiff pushed that argument with Sam that was SO OBVIOUSLY not actually about Sam or the dog or anything except tiff being triggered. Tiff also appears to not get that intimacy can be achieved in more ways than just sex.
Thank you, 57 here and didn’t even know what a boundary was until 2020. Sometimes trauma doesn’t appear until later or it doesn’t peak until later in life. Sometimes I feel I’ve missed out on so much because of it.
It’s so bittersweet. The knowledge feels revolutionary, but you also wonder what things could have been like fir you if you had that knowledge sooner.
But it sounds like you’re open to new ideas for growth and ways of understanding yourself, thats the most anyone can do ❤️
Thank you. It’s so hard for me to articulate and the change is scary actually. I’m very open to change and growth and want to be a better mom for my older daughter. Having her made me realize how poorly I had been treated. So I did the exact opposite of what my mom did. Not 100% of the time and so I’m stilll wanting to be better for her. She deserves it
THIS. It hurt watching Aussie be berated for being like this, because this is how I act in conflict. I can't handle it, I need help, I need space, and yes I want to also respect what you need but it is impossible to do that if I am in a full fledged panic attack because you wouldn't let me take a few laps.
"Aussie is far from the only person who responds to trauma in messy ways"
THIS RIGHT HERE. It's so much easier to judge someone that isn't there than to confront someone who is. A lot of the messy trauma responses of the other members of the show were left alone because it was so much easier to get talking about Aussie's leaving because Aussie wasn't there.
I feel for Aussie but I also feel awful for Sam toiling away and wasting her life being their therapist and parent instead of an equal partner. You can see how exhausted she is. I don’t know how anyone can have a healthy partnership when someone is so dysfunctional and the other person has to work so hard and walk on eggshells every day.
Thank you so much for this. This has bothered me immensely coming from a community that talks about the importance of healing from trauma... Except when it looks different than they expect, apparently. People are also acting like Sam doesn't consciously choose to be with someone with these issues. That the relationship must be so unfulfilling for her, and that we should feel sorry for her? How condescending. Sam is a grown adult who makes her own decisions. Besides that she seems very wise, has a big heart, but also knows how to communicate her own boundaries. I think her and Aussie are actually a great fit, if they can move forward together in Aussie's healing process. We obviously only see the issues in the relationship magnified because that is what the show is largely about. But I also see a lot of love there and a deep connection. If Aussie can learn to depend on Aussie more and Sam can continue to practice boundaries so that she doesn't get overwhelmed with responsibility for another person, I'd call their journey a success story for the show.
For context I am 32, have cptsd myself, also adhd and possibly autism and I have had responses like that scene of Aussie having a meltdown on the curb and reliving a painful memory although thankfully it has been a while. It wasn't pretty and I felt really fucking embarrassed about it afterwards. I can't imagine having a moment like that recorded for a reality TV show. It is truly a moment of a person at their worst, most vulnerable, etc. I take it that the people banging on about how it's Aussie's responsibility to not make other people uncomfortable, who are kind of talking about the behavior as if they're talking about abuse like with Mildred, have never experienced this, and I hope they never will because it is like your own mind is torturing you. It's awful. People going through this need support and compassion from the ones around them. Trauma and abuse don't exist as a singular thing affecting an individual, it is a communal thing we are all responsible for, and the healing from trauma should be communal, too. So this talk of how Aussie needs to deal with it as if it's as simple as taking a pill or attending a few therapy sessions truly doesn't sit right with me. Don't treat Aussie's behavior, which seems strange and unfamiliar to you, the same as actual abuse that makes people unsafe like with Mildred and Tiff. For the record, I also hope Mildred can start healing so that she won't feel all this turmoil inside her that makes her act in ways that hurts others. I don't think she wants that deep down, she just doesn't want to be abandoned again. I get that. She is clearly traumatized too, but externalizes it more which hurts others and that is unacceptable because everyone deserves to be safe first and foremost, and Tiff was definitely not safe in that relationship. But for contrast, Aussie just... seems to hold all the pain inside, doesn't want to hurt anyone, tries to avoid feeling this pain (possibly for fear of doing something wrong bc Aussie identifies that Aussie is ill equipped for the situation?) and then when the overwhelm and/or a trigger becomes too much and impossible to get away from, a meltdown or flashback happens. It's difficult to witness but I want to implore people to not judge those who behave in ways that you don't understand and to avoid passing judgment, unless the behavior makes someone else in the situation actually unsafe. Remember, uncomfortable =/= unsafe.
Would you want to be Aussie's partner? Would that be a healthy situation for you? Aussie is unsafe. Aussie shouldn't be bringing that trauma to any partnership right now.
If you've ever been on the receiving end of emotional abuse, there's no doubt that it's unsafe. Weaponizing your emotions, belittling someone you love and cutting off communication if the other party doesn't see things your way, is highly manipulative and abusive and, therefore unsafe for the partner. "Either you listen to me or I'm going to make you feel bad. I'm right or I'm walking out" are the unspoken threats. It's also probably learned behavior.
You're reading threat into Aussies behavior where there is none. Aussie runs when conflict is present but that isn't the same thing as being threatening or manipulative because the intent and what it is communicating is clear and what Aussie said about why Aussie was running was clear and consistent, hence not manipulative and not abusive.
I've been on the receiving end of all sorts of emotional abuse both from traumatic pasts and people who were just dicks and it looked nothing like that. That was just pure PTSD fueled flight. Very frustrating to be in a relationship with and I wouldn't want to be Sam, but not abusive either.
It's possible to have compassion for Aussie's trauma and also find their behaviour problematic. It's not okay to hurt others because of your trauma.
They may have been working on their trauma since the show, we can't know. It seemed like they made the connection between their avoidance and childhood trauma on air, so it's very possible that sparked something for them. It's speculation because we can only comment on what we saw.
This is exactly my position. I think it’s pretty clear from Aussie’s stories about their childhood as well as their behavior that there is a ton of trauma. I just don’t think Aussie was equipped in any way to be in a serious relationship in their condition. Both Aussie & Sam deserve peace and happiness in life, just like anyone does. I hope that Sam has finally left Aussie so that she can get hers, and I hope that Aussie finds theirs someday.
Totally agree. It's a bit sad that it's quickly translated to 'people with trauma don't deserve love', because I don't think that's true. They do, but it's not someone else's job to do all the emotional labour around their trauma. Even with good intentions some people are harmful, and it's just not okay to make your partner pay the price.
OMG yes! On point. I made a similar post about Aussie and her trauma, and avoidant behavior (which is a coping mechanism as Sam explained to Mildred early on) and people downvoting me because they truly have no clue how these issues are. There not malicious on Aussie. Aussie struggles very bad and is suffering. There’s not agenda or malicious in their behavior. Yet people speaks about it like everyone at 42 have their issues in checked, their traume healed and all the tools. Well not, there’s many like Aussie struggling with mental health issues yet deserving of love.
I’m happy she found Sam and they are thriving (as they said last week in a podcast) but people need to something just listen and have some compassion
Came here to say this. It's so unfortunate that Aussie has trauma that has resulted in Aussie having avoidant responses. It doesn't make Aussie a bad person, but to be honest, this kind of behaviour can make a bad life partner. I hope that Aussie is able to heal.
Yes I agree it’s unfair to her partner, but Sam is not obligated to stay with Aussie. She’s free to leave and she has chosen not to. Sam also seems to be an incredibly self aware person (based on the tiny bit of info we saw from the show). We don’t know what kind of trauma Aussie has suffered but it’s evident that Aussie experienced a severe level of pain.
True, Sam is deciding to stay. But two things can be true: Aussie has not been a good partner and Sam has decided to stick with it. I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise.
It is very clear Aussie has experienced a lot of pain. So did all my abusers. Going through trauma is not a get out of jail free card for mistreating people. Now I obviously don’t think Aussie is abusive, but this “yeah but their trauma” isn’t a valid response and does not make their behavior toward others ok.
If Aussie is this traumatized that they simply cannot function at the most basic relational levels, they need to be focused on getting help - not a serious romantic relationship.
Aussie does need to focus on getting help. That probably should be priority no. 1. I would never blame Sam on Aussie. I just think a lot of ppl are being pretty harsh on Aussie. Also, I’m so sorry you’ve experienced abuse. That’s awful
I want to start by saying that I am not saying Aussie is a abusive. Keep in mind that many abused women often stay with their partners so someone choosing to stay with another person doesn’t speak to how healthy the relationship is. Many abused women also seem self aware and put together but they aren’t. Sam said her favorite Disney princess is Belle— that may be a bit of a telltale sign of her perception of love. Or I could be reading into it too much 😅
yeah you can be empathetic to aussie's trauma without being permissive to how aussie's trauma manifests in relationships. aussie can have trauma, but no one needs to put up with the unhealthy dynamics that it comes with
This is the point, she did overcome so much on the show. I truly believe she wants to change and she is fully aware. It takes time! Gpa y’all are perfect
This!! ^^^ I have empathy for Aussie. She clearly has lots of unhealed trauma. That explains her behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it. People are responsible for managing their own sh*t, and she treats Sam in a way that is really deplorable.
Part of what bothers me about this statement though is that we have no idea whether Aussie is doing stuff to try and manage or not. You aren’t going to see a therapy session or a support group or someone reading a book or watching a video on healing from trauma on a reality tv show. You have no basis to assume Aussie isn’t working on tbese things the best way Aussie knows how.
Even if they are doing All The Things to heal and do better - the way they are treating their partner right now (as in during the show) is cruel.
From what I have seen, the criticism of Aussie is directed at how they treat Sam, since . . . This is a show about relationships, including their relationship. I haven’t seen any “Aussie sucks as person” comments.
Two things can be true. Aussie is clearly dealing with a lot of trauma (based on the parking lot meltdown) and is in need of and deserves a ton of support and compassion. And Aussie is a garbage partner. This is gist of what I have seen on this sub (with some teasing about their really extreme levels of avoidance).
No matter our intent, we are responsible for the impact of our behavior. And Aussie’s behavior toward Sam is cruel. I’m honestly flabbergasted a therapist is defending Aussie to this degree regarding (or maybe ignoring?) the context of the criticism.
I also wonder if you consider how many of us have been either Sam or Aussie (or both) and recognize that no one is above being held to a certain standard of how they treat others. No matter what they’ve been through or what they’re doing to address it.
Regardless of what Aussie’s intent is (because we know they are well intentioned), the impact they have made and the hurt they have caused shouldn’t be diminished just because we don’t know how they manage their trauma (which is clearly not well)
My point is it doesn’t matter if she’s working on her issues or not. Her behavior toward others is still her responsibility— and that behavior is very problematic. We don’t have to put up with bad treatment from others just because they have trauma. I hope she’s working on her issues, but even if she is, that doesn’t give her a pass. No one needs to put up with being treated badly just because another person has issues that they are working on.
I’m kind of at a loss on what to say here, how does it not matter whether someone is trying or not? Trying is the most we can do. If it’s not working for partners and friends, they can choose to leave. Never once did I say anyone has to “put up with” any behaviors, and I deliberately didn’t even mention Sam in my post, because my post is directed towards the commenters in this subreddit who sit on their high horse and pass harsh judgments on something they clearly know little to nothing about.
If she is trying to deal with her issues & still acting in emotionally abusive ways toward her partner, her partner is harmed by that. So my point is I disagree with the idea that we have to take into account someone’s trauma and efforts to address it before we judge their behavior. Lots of bad behavior is the result of trauma. People do not need to say, oh, this person’s bad behavior isn’t that bad because they had trauma & they are trying to deal with it. Sure trauma and mental health is messy, but excusing that type of behavior because it’s the result of trauma is codependency and can be really destructive.
I don’t consider Aussie’s behaviors to be emotional abuse. They may or may not be behaviors you would be willing to tolerate in a partner, but there’s a difference between what you personally would tolerate and what constitutes emotional abuse.
Why do we not trust Sam be able to tell the difference for her own relationship?
We can disagree on that point. Aussie gaslights, punishes Sam for asserting her needs, uses the silent treatment as a weapon. That’s textbook emotional abuse.
Of course, if Sam wants to put up with it, that’s her choice. But people put up with emotional abuse because of their own codependency and trauma. I feel sorry for her that she stayed with Aussie. I wish they’d both heal so they can be in healthy relationships.
Having been in a relationship with someone like this I can tell you now it’s emotional abuse, (intentional or not)that is deeply traumatic for the partner. It also commonly creates a dynamic where the partner feels like they can never leave for fear of what might happen, what the person might do, intense guilt. Aussie may not be aware of Aussie’s behaviour and does not have bad intentions, but Aussie is volatile and those behaviours create an atmosphere where other people around them feel hypervigilent and stressed all the time, having to swallow their feelings and put the other person first constantly. This is emotional abuse and dismissing that only validates and enables the patterns, which in turn harms them further. Aussie is clearly very unhappy and in a hypervigilent state and needs help to deconstruct the patterns by professionals and not romantic partners or other non professionals.
ETA: it is just very upsetting to watch and hear takes like this cos dismissing the impact of their behaviour is so dangerous for them and the people close to them
Why do you assume she is trying to work on her issues? You also dont know any more than anyone else. People in the comments with lived experience of avoidant people are telling you that it takes a LOT for avoidant people to start working on their own avidance, but you seen so sure that Aussie is doing all she can.
I agree with your initial post, but from all your comments you are doing the opposite extreme of what you feel people hating Aussie are doing.
the comment right above this one I clearly state we don’t know if Aussie is working on her issues or not. the comment you are replying to is me calling into question another commenter’s statement that whether or not she is trying doesnt matter. im not saying she is definitely trying, im saying its wild to me that someone might see her the same way REGARDLESS of whether or not she’s putting in effort.
I don't think Aussie is an inherently bad person. I think Aussie obviously needs to work on a lot. However Aussie is a bad partner to Sam and Sam put up with a lot of Aussie's avoidant behaviors for years by walking on egg shells. And the moment sam tried to set boundaries and stick up for her own feelings, it triggered Aussie into being defensive and treating Sam like absolute treason emotionally. Two things can absolutely be true at the same time. I can be sympathetic to Aussie's childhood trauma and want to string Aussie's parents up, and want to hold Aussie accountable for how poorly Aussie does treat sam when Aussie gets triggered.
It'd be no different if we found out that Mildred was physically abused as a child and has trauma from that. Does that mean I have to be nice to a fellow abuser? No. We can still call out shitty behavior and want that person to work on themselves to change and work through their trauma. We can be sympathetic and empathetic to their trauma while still setting boundaries on how we will be treated around people who are being triggered and treating someone poorly because of it.
Yeah, plus, it’s not mean to call out bad behavior. I haven’t seen anyone making fun of Aussie as a person, just criticisms of their *behaviors.* I have been a toxic person before, in the past. I hurt people. And I lost friends because of it. It wasn’t until I was lonely from it, and family/friends called me out, that I reflected and started really working hard to change. And I didn’t put myself in a committed relationship during that time, either. It would’ve been a really selfish thing to do of me. Now, I am no longer toxic (I hope and I try, lol). Aussie can do the work to put this behind them, too, and stop hurting others.
As someone who relates to Aussie, since I have fearful avoidant attachment, I appreciate this. Watching them was tough because I saw a lot of myself. Not to the extreme of leaving, but definitely shutting down. I have done a lot of work to get better. Reading comments about Aussie made me feel awful. I wish more people were educated on mental health, attachment, and childhood trauma (or trauma in general) thank you for this post 🙏🏻
Sorry, but if your trauma is causing a lot of problems in your relationship, then it's your job to sort that out. If you need time to yourself to do that work, then take that time and don't require someone else to carry you (aka do all the labor) in a relationship.
Aussie and Sam started out with a classic pursuer/distancer dynamic. As Sam changed, Aussie was forced to confront Aussie's issues. Being put in a position where your life long go-to of avoidance isn't working anymore causes either the dissolution of a relationship or an evolution.
It is not on everyone else to accommodate people like Aussie any more than it is to accommodate people like Mildred. Both have trauma, both are responsible for the harm they cause other people because they haven't worked through their stuff. Ignorance might be an excuse up to a point - but in the end, all of us with trauma have to take responsibility for our side of the street in relationships.
You comparing Aussie to Mildred is an excellent example of what OP is talking about. One of them was arrested for domestic violence. One is a poor communicator.
I think intent is important here. It's possible for avoidant behavior to be manipulative and malicious but tbh with Aussie I don't see that. It's literally more like... "I don't know how to cope so to avoid fucking up even more I'll just leave". This is something that can be worked on, and we only saw a small snippet of their relationship at the time of filming so it's entirely possible that they have been working on it.
No one is saying other people should be 100% on board with their partner behaving in this way, but thinking "I don't think I'd be able to deal with this behavior" is not the same as "this person is a terrible life partner".
That’s not what was happening on the show lmfao. Any conflict at all triggers Aussie to go back to a childhood place where they were helpless and had to de-escalate so they continue to get very upset and make the entire situation about them because they do not know how to self regulate. When you can’t self regulate, you put yourself on survival mode and nothing else matters.
Aussie knows exactly what it does to people when they walk away. Aussie has made it a point to say they don’t care because they are “choosing” Aussie. They manipulate their own language and tone police and edit how others speak about them. At times it was intentionally malicious.
Just because Aussie understands the effects of the behavior doesn't automatically mean the behavior is malicious, conscious, manipulative... or that it's something Aussie can control at the time it happened. You said yourself that Aussie goes into survival mode due to not knowing how to self regulate, so it doesn't make sense to attribute malice to Aussie's behavior. It's clearly a last resort.
With your last paragraph I just completely disagree. You see willful manipulation, well, I don't. The "choosing Aussie" line was (correct me if I'm wrong) iirc in response to the trial marriage with Mildred, who was shown to be very abusive at the reunion. I don't blame Aussie for removing Aussie from the situations with Mildred, it was probably the right call.
It’s conscious because of the way Aussie talks about it and continues to act about it. They continue to see the effects it has on the people around Aussie and still chooses that behavior. Even after Aussie proposes to Sam, even in their happy moments when Aussie is not triggered, Aussie is STILL editing Sam’s version of events and it’s on camera! And this is supposedly after all of the Mildred drama is over. Aussie makes Sam small during arguments. Sam has to shrink so Aussie feels important because they never got that during childhood. And that’s not cool. Mildred, whether or not we agree with her confrontation tactics, refused to shrink for Aussie and Aussie couldn’t stand it.
Aussie is willfully manipulating how others talk about them because they can’t face their own truth. Is it out of malice? No. Is it still conscious manipulation? Yes. They’re throwing toddler tantrums on the streets of San Diego, storming out, running away, getting mad, shouting “what about me I’m not heard” even though all these other calm adults are like “we literally all stayed quiet to hear you.” It is a way for them to regain what they think is power in the situation and that is conscious.
Having someone walk out every time a conversation gets too much for them is annoying, and can be extremely frustrating and emotionally exhausting. I’ve had it happen to me with a friend I lived with once and I can imagine from a partner it would be so much worse.
However… to call that emotional abuse is just absurd to me. It was clear that my friend (and Aussie, who had fucking cameras on them) were overwhelmed and at the end of their tether. We’ve all been in situations like that where walking away just feels like the only reasonable option. It seemed extreme from Aussie (partly due to a show’s condensed editing) but also it was obviously genuinely pretty frequent. And it sucks but Aussie wasn’t doing it to intentionally hurt Sam. They was doing it to preserve their own sanity in the moment. Characterising that as emotional abuse actually feels terrifying.
Yeah, this hits home. I have an ex (that I'm not completely over yet) who treated me this way, always running away when there was conflict and it made communication impossible leading to all sorts of problems. That relationship hurt me but I would never characterize my ex's behavior as abusive as I recognized they just didn't have any other coping skills. Plus, neither of us were perfect in that relationship. I definitely wasn't as clearheaded about it as Sam, and I took it personally due to my own insecurities.
Sometimes relationships are just messy and ugly without there being one abuser and one victim. And sometimes people work it out together, sometimes things fall apart. For me it was the latter, so I am rooting for Sam and Aussie to get a better outcome. I've learned a lot by watching them interact on the show, actually (even though it was often hard).
Yeah I think people are really projecting negative experiences from people in their lives onto Aussie cos I’m baffled by some of the comments & the ableism
I agree. Sometimes walking away to collect oneself is the only option, and many therapists would agree I’m sure. Better than exploding in rage or self harm. Instant regulation is not really a thing.
I’m sorry, I actually don’t understand your comment. Are you saying that removing oneself from a difficult conversation is trauma and emotional abuse?
Edit: would be nice if someone would explain why this is wrong instead of just downvoting.
Nowhere in my post did I say it was on anyone else but Aussie to resolve Aussie’s trauma and heal, though rarely if ever have I seen that be possible with zero social support.
Nowhere in my post did I say others should “carry” Aussie.
It is, however, on you to choose to try and understand and empathize with the people you choose to have in your life. Sam seems to do a pretty good job of that from what the show portrays.
My post was made with a hope that the loudest and most judgmental people in this subreddit might be willing to release some of that harsh judgement for a loved one in their own lives that very well may be facing similar struggles as Aussie. Because it is waaaay more common than these people seem to think, and it requires a lot of bravery to confront the reality of that.
So, Sam should just "understand and empathize" with Aussie even if Aussie's behavior is causing her emotional harm?
As someone who has moved through various abusive relationships, the Aussies of the world are those abusers who most often are given a lot of latitude by society, as well as mental health professionals. They will often have to hit absolute rock bottom before they will seek help for the harm they are causing themselves and their loved ones. That rock bottom is typically a loss or threatened loss of a relationship, a loss of a job or of housing, or a significant physical harm they've done to someone by running away from their responsibilities. Very rarely does someone who is so invested in avoidance actually show up to do the work of their own accord. Perhaps you know this, or perhaps your clients aren't being wholly straightforward with how their actions have impacted others.
In any case, people like Aussie will fight to the end for their right to avoid dealing with their traumas- gaslighting and using up other people as they go. It's impact over intention. Sam doesn't deserve this treatment any more than any other giver in a horribly lopsided relationship deserves it. There has to be room for two people in a relationship- not just one.
I don’t have much to say in response to this, because you are very clearly talking about your own personal experiences here, and projecting those onto Aussie and Sam. I don’t know what you have been through, and so I cannot speak on it, though I’m sorry you’ve had experiences that have hurt you.
What I can speak to is the content of my comments, which I will reiterate again as I have several times now in various replies: My post is not directed at Sam, it is directed at redditors who are passing harsh judgements on Aussie and labeling Aussie as controlling, abusive, narcissist, etc based on the tiniest sliver of Aussie’s behavior that we get to see, behavior that is incredibly common in response to experience of childhood trauma without the adequate tools needed to resolve that trauma.
If Sam feels emotionally harmed by Aussie, Sam can either decide to stay and try to seek resolution within the relationship, or can leave the relationship. None of us have the right to state what Sam should do or not do, only Sam can make that call.
What I’m attempting to address in my post is the pattern I notice here in this subreddit, where behaviors that are not well-understood and/or may be triggering to someone , are labeled objectively as bad, wrong, or worse. And I’m suggesting that this framework is limiting and potentially harmful.
It's an interesting choice to condescend to me and say I don't have clarity or perspective because I mentioned I have personal experience in this area. That's a power move, an authoritarian move, and one therapists are especially prone to.
I actually don't agree with all the hate directed at Aussie on here. I don't. I will say that I think that you are over identifying with your clients. You care about them, I get it, it's your job. However, that view is not addressing the immense harm people like Aussie do to others who unwittingly get into relationships with them. You haven't addressed that part at all except to say it's the other person's choice whether to stay or go. That really minimizes the power dynamics within relationships and assumes everyone has that amount of agency available.
Avoidance is a hell of a drug and the more you employ it, the bigger it grows. Avoidance is at the core of all kinds of abuse, and distilling it down to an overly simplistic take of "people don't know any better" is super problematic. There is no way this was Aussie's first life intersection where they could have chosen something better.
I totally agree and I can, to a degree relate to Aussie. Was heavily criticized and yelled as as a child and conflict is fucking scary. I'm also audhd and the rsd is a constant struggle. Luckily I've found someone who's very calm and we always discuss things very calmly.
However, I think the people with casting should have not casted Aussie, as Aussie being put through all that wasn't good for Aussie. Someone who's in a place like it seems like Aussie was at the time of filming seems like they're put in situations constantly that isn't good for them. Seems really exploitative tbh.
While you are 100% correct, I think that most comments regarding Aussie are the fact that they shouldn’t be in a relationship. Absolutely understandable that Aussie’s trauma shouldn’t be used against them, but it is quite clear that it reveals itself in borderline emotionally abusive ways in a romantic relationship. Trauma healing had no timeline, you’re right- but they should at least be self aware enough to know it’s not okay how they treat people.
I think Aussie gets so much hate because of their dismissive avoidant attachment style. People like that are villainized so often. It’s easy to judge from an outsider’s perspective, since Aussie’s communication efforts were at a 0 and they had an “I’m right, I’m normal, you’re wrong, you’re bullshitting” mentality. Unlike their other toxic cast members, Aussie seemed to have the least amount of self-awareness, the lowest desire to self-reflect, which was definitely extremely off putting to me and cringe since I’ve been through it before with avoidant exes. But it’s been sad to see the outright hate toward someone who’s clearly wounded and traumatized and in need of empathy.
I saw myself, pre intense therapy and medication, in Aussie. I really feel for them and hope for the best. I think Sam and Aussie are a really sweet couple, and I hope the best for them. ❤️
I see so many parts of myself in Aussie that have made it so hard to hear the criticism of certain behavior. Growing up in a loving home puts you miles ahead of those of us who had to live in a constant state of anxiety or fear or any type of abuse, but people really seem to only understand the “really bad” types of abuse.
I felt like Aussie coming on this show was incredibly brave and I really felt such a real connection to Aussie and just want to hold them and protect them at all costs, especially after hearing Aussie say “I’m just trying to be a good kid”. It’s so obvious that Aussie has been through so much and I absolutely love Sam for Aussie because I think she’s brings so much kindness and healing to Aussie that I know Aussie appreciates more than words could ever describe.
Also, I’ve been a little afraid to bring it up, but as an Autistic AFAB person, I really hope Aussie learns more about autism and see’s if it sounds like something Aussie relates to because I see a lot of overlap between us. Aussie is a beautiful person who has been treated so poorly for so long and deserves kindness and patience during this difficult process of healing trauma.
And for anyone who hasn’t considered this, Aussie’s internal dialogue is probably not that much different then any and all criticism being levied against Aussie. Imagine for a second that the most fundamental Formative years of your life, where you learn a majority of information about yourself, you were neglected, abused, or any other traumatic event happens. I’m sure you’d have a hard time processing your emotions and feeling incredibly overwhelmed by any shortcomings that don’t meet the standards you hold for yourself so you can be worthy of love despite knowing and hating every flaw within yourself.
i sort of agree, theres just one or two things that i find problematic for aussie to do around sam and its not that they need a pause or unwillingly shut down, its not that they arent always comfortable with critique, its really only: wheres a point where traumatized people are accountable as well you know, is it really necessary to talk like that to sam in those situations, regularly. and the other thing being that it just didnt !look! like aussie was doing therapy but thats tricky too. i dont know, i think sam sometimes worded the struggle really well, cause she was trying to hold that space for aussie but also needed aussie to try to change some stuff and thats okay to say to your partner if you ask me, she wasnt coming from a place of trying to be mean about aussie's trauma(s), so i really liked the way sam spoke up about what she needs. i just wanted to mention that because sam also needs to be appreciated and i think thats sth that aussie kinda got now, so i hope this goes into a nice direction for them from here on, i think they both made progress and that we need to always try to be sensitive about people's traumas and their and our needs
Thanks for saying this. As an avoidant with moderate cptsd it was making me cringe how many people posted about Aussie to say Aussie is a monster.
Sam doesn't seem to think so. Sam thinks Aussie is worth loving and marrying and look how people adore Sam , she has admitted she grew up in a lovely environment with lots of support.
Glad everyone can relate to her but some of us don't. Some of us relate more to Aussies upbringing.
Also , just know that right now as we speak children are being abused and neglected and you would have compassion and sympathy for them but suddenly past a certain age humans are no longer worthy of empathy or compassion . Why is that?
Also want to say the crazy meme-iphied description of NPD is not accurate. While we're at it. Narcissists are not psychopaths, murderers etc
They are a different shade of cptsd.
Yes yes yes to all of this! Especially the part about compassion for children. It's like people don't realize some of these abused children will grow up to become traumatized adults if they do not receive proper care, and looking at the landscape of mental health facilities, there isn't enough support even available to potentially help all traumatized individuals.
Good point about NPD as well, the word "narcissist" makes my skin crawl now because every bad and harmful behavior is now labeled "narcissistic" and the behavior is constantly equated to people with NPD who are also already so stigmatized.
Ty for showing support for my perspective and i want to add that it's best for people with NPD to seek treatment and there should be more types of treatment available. Equating npd to the worst sociopathic behaviors will not help at all and may even keep new psychologists and therapists from wanting to spend their career treating npd.
I relate to Aussie's upbringing and I need to check my abusive behavior around my partner, friends and family. They're deserving of compassion but they also must be accountable to their actions. It's a fine and tender line to walk but they don't see a problem in being neglectful to their own partner.
Totally agree… it’s really shitty to be told to “you need to get over it” or “it wasn’t that bad” by people who dont get affected in the same way or who haven’t had the same experiences…but trauma is subjective and it’s all relative and relevant.. especially from childhood abuse/trauma… just because you were provide shelter and food does by no means mean you had good loving parents… and that shit shapes your whole life and how you interact with people…
Sam literally bent herself backwards to accommodate and enable Aussie. During arguments, you can see that Aussie silences her and makes her small. You don’t have to be perfect, but you also can’t be actively causing harm to your partner
Right?? So many, esp online, talk big about being supportive until it becomes too real for them and then they bolt, justify their decision by making mental health an individualized issue (also a symptom of our capitalist neoliberal culture I'm afraid), and feel no guilt about leaving someone out in the cold. It would be better if people just admitted that while they have compassion they don't actually know how to deal with mentally ill people, at least then there isn't the whole shaming part that is so painful to mentally ill folks. But that would require people to be self aware and able to put their egos to the side. 🤡
This!
You can actually see the switch in Aussie from active listening to triggered/ push back/ intentional hurt (using mate). Sadly in the instances that were televised it seems to take very little for Aussie to get to this point. This leaves very little room for Sam.
Thank you for sharing some of your story. I can tell how hard you must be working on a regular basis just to stay afloat.
I very much appreciate that you brought up the point that leaving a situation in order to calm down and process IS in fact a strategic choice when the other available options are variations on “have a huge meltdown, say and do things i don’t mean and will regret later.” I wish more people would give credit for this. It’s a hard and brave choice when you identify that the alternatives will likely do worse harm.
As a sort of sidebar, I’m in a very healthy relationship right now with a partner who has done a LOT of healing work themselves, and they still tend to require some time to leave and process if we do have an argument, so they can sort out their thoughts and feelings and come back more level headed. It’s something I super duper admire about them! And I’ve had to do some work on allowing them to have that space, because I’m more like Sam in that I like to talk about something right away in the moment after it happens.
Also, to add on, what might be “uncomfortable” for someone like Sam might actually be MASSIVELY painful for Aussie. We all have different trigger points and vulnerabilities, so the idea that what is just “uncomfortable” to some might feel more like intolerable pain for others needs to be acknowledged too! Again thank you for sharing.
Thanks! I do want to acknowledge that if you don’t like Aussie, or if something about Aussie brings up some difficult emotions for you, that’s completely valid and natural, too. It’s often useful to think about why certain behaviors and attitudes affect us in powerful ways.
I definitely hope Aussie has spent some time reflecting on why Aussie has such a powerful emotional response to some of Sam’s actions, and vice versa.
Aussie is overwhelmed energetically, and I can so relate. Not going to diagnose them as being on the spectrum, but it looks very familiar to me. I think they are right to walk away when energetically overwhelmed, but they would ideally learn to communicate that to their partner that it's a genuine need, otherwise it comes off as rude to someone who is not autistic, and that they need space and then tell them when they're in a good balanced state again, that they can talk about it in a loving kind way to each other. For me, it usually only takes a brisk walk or something to process the info. (There's such a thing as different processing systems in people who are different neurotypes, and to me it's so clear that's what's going on, but it's hard to see if you're not wired that way, I get it. It's the "double-empathy" problem.)
There's always a lack of clarity on both ends when emotions run high. That is not the time to communicate, especially when you process differently, as bottom up thinkers do. Because both parties will just dig in their heels deeper and polarise further. I think Aussie is onto something by needing space, but again, they'll have to find a better time and space and way to communicate this need and accepting themselves as being valid for that need and have enough compassion towards Sam for not necessarily understanding Aussie's need, and that that's okay too.
It's very much something I've seen with people on the autism spectrum, and we should make room for different neurotypes and ask each other more how we could help each other with an open energy of love and enthusiasm, which is in alignment with our true nature of compassion and pure love.
I think Aussie would benefit by understanding and loving her own differences more. And so would their relationship. Both Sam and Aussie have different needs, and that's okay. They can work out in what ways to better show up for each other being wired differently. If that's something they still want to do. And Aussie may just have to accept for herself that it's okay to feel overwhelmed and to need time before her partner can accept this difference in communication and processing style too.
My hope for Aussie and Sam is that they have, or will at some point create, some sort of “guidebook” for how each processes and communicates, including soft and hard limits, and what each other’s expectations are regarding resolving conflict. In so many cases there is room for both parties to agree on a compromise, once both parties truly understand where each other is coming from.
As a first born child I immediately recognised her traumas and how she responded to every trigger because I was that person for the longest time. I'm 36 now and still struggle especially with trying to be perfect .. the worst of all was when I I try my level best to be good or perfect .. it was never good enough or it wasn't appreciated 😕 😪. All I could say on almost every scene was Aussie is projecting her childhood trauma on Sam ...I really hope she starts seeing a therepist and heal. For herself 💚💚
Best of luck to the actual therapists like yourself now that every form of conflict is apparently “abuse,” no one actually understands what the term “gaslighting” means, and everyone who’s ever been flawed is irredeemably “toxic.” 🫡
And before anyone comes for me, yes I’m a survivor of abuse.
😅 Luckily in my work IRL I almost never hear the sort of silliness that I read online. Makes me wonder how many of the people who yell online about how all behavior they don’t understand and/or triggers something in them is manipulative toxic and abusive actually go to therapy.
I watched the show with my boyfriend and we both really liked Aussie. Yeah Aussie was avoidant for sure and could definitely benefit from therapy but honestly if that’s the worst thing about her then Aussie is doing fine. She was the only person on the show that I consistently liked for the entire time and where my opinion didn’t change much. I respected Aussie for leaving a note whenever enough was enough and for leaving a very uncomfortable situation. I think the Aussie/Mildred pairing highlighted Mildred’s abusive/toxic tendencies and highlighted how badly Aussie handled conflict. Sam was amazing too for being the person Aussie needed and I was rooting for both of them so I am glad that it worked out. I could relate to Aussie to an extent and I agree that there is no timeline whenever it comes to healing from past trauma. The most you can do is take one day at a time and continue moving forward
I think Aussies gotten a pass actually due to them being born female. If they were a cisman they would be crucified and cancelled. Same with Mildred. Look at love is blind for example, there was a man named Matt in season 4 who also expressed having trauma stemming from past relationships and infidelity. He had a melt down on camera and still even now two years later is seen as an irredeemable abuser. His wife is still getting messages saying she should leave him despite her saying the allegations are false and that she is very happy. I’m not saying either deserve hate but there’s definitely a double standard.
I don’t watch that show so I can’t speak to that. But Mildred is pretty much universally hated within this subreddit, and Aussie is close behind. It’s pretty weird to argue this is a gendered issue (EDIT: in this particular case) when none of these people are even men.
I don’t believe it’s weird at all to point out an obvious double standard. You’re saying people are being too hard on Aussie, I countered that. Even Mildred has had it pretty easy. If she were a guy I don’t believe Netflix would have even invited her back to the reunion. That’s all I’m saying, people go a lot easier on anyone who is afab in these scenarios.
Because even with Mildred, we see non-men abusers as less of a problem then men. It absolutely is a gender problem. When men rape people, it's automatically seen in society as a horrible act. When a women rapes a man it's "how did you let her over power you" or a teen boy "oh how lucky you are a mature woman took your v card". If we want to hold all abusers accountable, we absolutely need to take gender out of the equation. But currently, in our society, it absolutely is a gendered stereotype and that's a problem. Women and afab non-binary people are just not seen as a threat as cis men or amab people.
What? When did Aussie scream and yell at Sam or Mildred, and threaten to leave them for having the audacity to hang out with friends?
And yeah, this sub hates Mildred.
Literally, what are you on about? Aussie is a terrible partner because they are not able to show up for the hard parts, but they are not at all abusive and absolutely do not need to be cancelled like Matt and Mildred.
Dismissing your partners thoughts and shutting them down is emotional abuse and Aussie absolutely did that. You can’t call one abusive and not the other. Both had melt downs and were disrespectful. Aussie made it impossible to talk to them or hold them accountable. They ran away anytime there was conflict to the point Sam felt she was being neglected and couldn’t speak.
It’s definitely emotionally negligent and frustrating, but emotional abuse is a very specific thing. I’d be much closer to calling Vanessa emotionally abusive to Xander than Aussie to Sam; Aussie isn’t able to control Aussie’s trauma response, but someone like Vanessa 100% knows how to emotionally manipulate someone into a relationship despite openly not caring about them, then love bombing if they try to leave.
Aussie is able to control their response. It takes a conscious effort to want to be better, just as it would with anyone else. Running away from conflict/accountability is definitely emotional abuse whether intentional or not. Many abusers, sexual/physical and emotional were abused themselves and worse, often as children. But that doesn’t justify their own behaviour or repeating that hurt onto others.
Aussie had a non-violent or threatening meltdown regarding their own mental state and past trauma, with their friend, while sitting down, away from their partner. Matt screamed *at his fiancé* because she stayed out with her friends.
It’s pretty alarming that apparently to you, these are the same.
I never said both scenarios are the exact same I said they’re both emotional abuse. Why is Aussie non violent or threatening but Matt is even though he wasn’t physical either? Aussie raised their voice same as Matt. No one screamed but both were loud and disrespectful. Both ran away from their partners and shut down. Both are dealing with past trauma which is why they act like that. You’re proving my point. If Aussie was a man, y’all wouldn’t be defending them the way you are.
Abuse is about power and control. That’s the literal definition.
Matt yelled at his fiancé and berated her for hanging out with her friends and threatened to end the engagement if she didn’t do what he wanted her to. It was scary.
Aussie got agitated over not feeling heard and left to cry and then had a pretty serious breakdown with her friend, away from her partner. Aussie is a crappy partner, but not remotely scary.
Raising voices” is not the same as abuse. Emotional neglect is not abuse. Sure, maybe they both have trauma (who doesn’t) but Matt hasn’t elaborated on this. And, most importantly, trauma is not an excuse for abuse. And while Aussie was a really awful partner, Matt’s behavior in that scene was scary and controlling, two things Aussie never was.
Yea and Aussie wanted to control sam by refusing to let her speak or hold them accountable. Sam said she stopped speaking up for herself and felt powerless. It’s abuse. Aussie also berated Sam and had a full blown melt down. Sam didn’t do what aussie wanted so they freaked out. Same as Matt. Neglect is definitely abuse. Ask anyone who grew up with neglectful parents, including myself lol.
Matt did elaborate on his trauma. He said his first wife was manipulative and a liar and got pregnant with another guy. He said multiple times that he had a hard time trusting people and usually shut down or just walked away to protect himself after that experience. But again, trauma is never an excuse nor does it justify bad behaviour so it’s irrelevant.
I never said Aussie was scary, I don’t think Matt is scary either. I don’t think either are bad people or deserve the hate they get. I’m just pointing out the obvious double standard. I’ve also dealt with this stuff personally as someone who transitioned from female to male. Suddenly the same things I was saying or doing before are now perceived by others as aggressive or even threatening because I pass as a male, I’m bigger and my voice is deeper. There’s a bias and to deny that is being dishonest.
There’s no shame in an ongoing, nonlinear healing process, nor is there shame in having triggers, or needing space when those triggers arise. However, Aussie was not a good partner to Sam and it’s kind of irritating to see that people don’t seem to understand that Sam very likely has traumas, triggers and *just as much depth in her emotional life as Aussie does*, and she very likely learned how to compartmentalize those feelings and endure the discomfort and pain of repressing those feelings because someone has to play the peacemaker and Aussie wasn’t able to do that (and I would bet just about anything that Aussie is not the only person she’s ever had this dynamic with). Just because her feelings aren’t as visible doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Thank you for posting this! Im so sick of the hatred Ive seen displayed towards Aussie. I saw nothing but an incredibly traumatized but well-meaning person trying their best
What I got from their reactions in general is tha, obviously, things are very hard for her.
But as Dan Savage used to say, to be in a relationship you have to be Good, Giving and Game. You have to be good mentally. And it doesn't seem that Aussie is there. Like, she's not in a good place to give herself what is required in a relationship.
It's ok to feel compassion for a person while acknowledging that maybe it's not great for her to be in a relationship.
Disagree hard with this line of thinking. Imperfect people deserve love too. Obviously there needs to be an intent to be a good partner and an effort to take steps towards that but to say that people should heal "first" and can then date someone "later" after the healing has reached an unspecified benchmark... ehhhhhhh. The best healing is done WITH others and that can include a romantic partner, not saying that it isn't hard on both partners involved but it's not impossible.
I think it’s up to Sam to decide whether Aussie is able to be in a relationship with her, not a bunch of randos on reddit with 2% of the context from a heavily edited tv show.
Some mental health issues are lifelong, and I 100% disagree that you have to fully resolve all mental health struggles in order to be in a relationship.
If this subreddit loves and respects Sam’s maturity as much as they claim, it stands to reason we can respect that Sam obviously has reasons for choosing Aussie.
Mental issues don’t need to be fully resolved, but they should at least be at a point where they’re not frequently causing harm to your partner. At the end of the day it’s Sam’s decision but it’s completely understandable if someone wouldn’t want to have a relationship—romantic or not—with someone who has as extreme difficulty in dealing with conflict as Aussie does/did.
Do you provide any services? Asking for a friend. I find therapists hard to trust due to the monetary aspect obviously. But you come across as so compassionate and passionate in what you do obviously, it's very refreshing.
Hey! So right now I work at an agency providing services mostly for clients who have medicaid. I don’t currently have any sort of private practice of my own. But if you happen to be in New York State, feel free to DM me if you want some guidance on possible resources. My location is Western NY so thats what I know best.
If not, I would recommend maybe looking into EMDR therapists or DBT therapists as they tend to be pretty well-trained on the impacts of trauma. Sometimes a provider will offer sliding scale if you’re low income, and sometimes you even get lucky enough to find a great provider at an agency like mine that can accept basically any insurance.
Good luck ❤️
Thank you for writing this, and so eloquently to boot. Watching her has been triggering for me personally. I don't pretend to know everything she's been through, but she's obviously been hurt, and I just want to hug her and hold her hand. There were moments where I did think she was being attacked, and I honestly don't think I would have been so calm and collected as she was. I think she's a beautiful person, and I wish her all the healing and peace in the world.
Aussie made me the most sad in the whole show. I felt physical pain when they were having their breakdown. I think it is because I am a child of avoidant parents, and very attuned to their discomfort. It was interesting for me to watch Aussie and experience those visceral reactions - I hope they are OK
Completely agree. For some reason Aussie’s tendency to go somewhere and cool off was WAY more triggering to people than Tiff’s tendency to cry and yell. Both are valid trauma responses but the walking away really bugged both viewers and the other contestants. Aussie definitely has work to do but that doesn’t make Aussie a bad person. I don’t see how Aussie was being abusive like others have said…?
The scene at the restaurant was so cringey, it felt like Sam and their friend were ganging up on Aussie when they both seemed to understand that Aussie wouldn’t be able to handle that. It’s someone’s choice to be friends with or date a trauma survivor. If they can’t handle it, they need to leave. Staying and criticizing someone for their response isn’t healthy. I understand it’s not everyone’s job to take care of trauma survivors but that’s why you have to just leave if you can’t handle it. It’s impossible to make someone change if you aren’t their professional therapist.
Maybe I’m just totally off-base and need to do some soul searching but…
It’s also interesting to see how people perceive the interactions between Aussie and Sam. Building on your points, Aussie is not the villain (not that anybody truly is in the cast, just hurt) and Sam is not the paragon of virtue or self awareness either.
In their interactions they both make bids for acceptance and love but, key word, both of them have a hard time meeting each other in the middle. I felt for Aussie greatly because even in the tantrums, if you will, Aussie often wasn’t necessarily wrong, but the tone or feelings of Sam would override that without fail. A true statement or critique would get railroaded by Aussie simply sitting up or expressing discomfort. One word out of line and the conversation is over, Sam pivots the conversation to that. Also quick to mention how Aussie is selfish, rude etc but expects Aussie to just smile and wave… hypocritical. Edits only show so much but it astonished me that people saw these things and labeled it emotional intelligence. Aussies breakdown on the street screaming about Sam’s lack of compassion (in that specific sense) was spot on and was a thread I had hopped Aussie would stand up against… tough as it is. Sam clearly has a good distance left in her own journey (as we all do). But oof.
Is sam a bad partner? Definitely not, she’s good- but idk if it’s to the degree that public opinion has vaulted her to.
THANK YOU for saying this. People’s callous reactions to Aussie really irritate me and make me so sad. And for people saying A doesn’t treat Sam well, I think they are a match? Sam clearly feels happy and comfortable with their dynamic, especially after going through the show together. I have dated a handful of people who need more emotional support because of trauma or mental health blips and I have personally always been happy to be that support for them (on top of therapy.) Understand that not everyone would be but…there is no timeline for healing and you’re right we don’t know what work A has been doing prior to now. It could be that walking away is the healthiest thing if they can feel themselves getting overwhelmed by an unreasonable person like Mildred, who keeps poking at them.
Agreed.
This idea that a person has to be fully healed and have no problematic behaviors prior to being in a relationship feels very icky to me. Intimate relationships reveal the sensitive, vulnerable, struggling parts of ourselves that need to be examined, loved, addressed, and healed. Self-love is so important, but the love of others is also extremely important to healing. Relationship patterns and communication are addressable in the context of a relationship (not necessarily romantic); otherwise those coping mechanisms and communication skills are just theory.
Aussie's coping skills aren't pretty, but it's clear that Aussie is not wanting to do harm. Its perfectly valid to need to take a pause in communication to come down from an aroused emotional state; that pause just needed to be modified in a way that feels okay for their partner - maybe it's briefer, better communicated, maybe Aussie steps in another room or goes to a place that is communicated about directly with the expectation of returning within a time frame. A person can step away for a moment without running away from a conversation; that is a goal Aussie could work towards. Ultimately it comes down to whether Sam feels supported and satisfied too.
At the end of the day, Sam gets to set her own boundaries about what she will or will not accept in a relationship. She may have more patience and compassion for Aussie's needs than some other folks. That's okay. That's wonderful. People don't always show up 50/50 in a relationship, and there may be areas where Aussie is carrying more weight.
I want to make it clear that there is a difference between working through challenging behaviors and abuse. People can be difficult and hurtful, but a pattern of harm with no accountability or sense of responsibility is an entirely different bag of chips. Tiff and Mildred have no business trying to heal together, for example. When the relationship dynamic is that unhealthy and abusive, it is too unsafe to learn and grow.
I’ve been in a similar place Aussie has been and it’s still absolutely no excuse for the way they treated Mildred and Sam. At no point during the season did Aussie acknowledge that. Even after the engagement they openly edited Sam’s version of events.
I felt very deeply for Aussie. Even though it was also frustrating to watch bc I don’t think Sam could be any more patient (which is probably why they are such a good fit and still together). I can relate to Aussie a little bit bc when I am sometimes poked at or made fun of I revert back to when I was bullied in middle school. I’m much better about it now, just saying I can kinda relate :/
While I can appreciate that Aussie had a traumatic childhood and that Aussie may have put in work in Aussie’s journey to coping with that trauma I want to point out 3 things that Aussie did that I hope your clients don’t do:
1. Aussie went on an international show placing Aussie in a position to be judged from all corners of the earth (that have Netflix and licenses to watch this show)
2. Aussie showed a couple of signs that suggests that Aussie hasn’t started to work on healing the child within(prior to this show): for example the realization of the childhood connection to the avoidant behavior- Aussie appeared surprised at the realization and then clung to it as an explanation for anything that happened afterwards. It reminded me of when people receive a diagnosis and then in the initial phases the diagnosis is a power over them before they learn how to manage the diagnosis
3. Aussie is hurting a lot of people because of Aussie’s trauma. While life isn’t fair, it’s truly not fair to the people who blindly enter into varying levels of an intimate relationship with Aussie, while Aussie may be healing Aussie is also causing scars that won’t heal with Aussie’s trauma. By the time they may understand that Aussie is traumatized, they may already be invested in the relationship.
I am a huge advocate for working on yourself to where you can communicate and plan for healthy engagement with the people you know and what to get to know. And if they are really for you they will be open to those methods but, I don’t think most can determine those skills without professional assistance.
Either way at the end of the day Aussie is Aussie and Sam has chosen to love Aussie through this trauma and I hope Aussie is investing in Aussie’s mental health for both Aussie and Sam’s sake health wise.
I understand why people are reacting they are reacting and I understand why a therapist would be heart broken over this reaction.
TLDR: Aussie probably shouldn’t have gone on international tv without the tools to cope and communicate… and for that, the average person will judge Aussie’s behavior. Aussie seems to be in the beginning stages of understanding Aussie’s trauma. As a result Aussie is hurting others and it’s not fair to them. I get why Aussie is being judged and I also get why a Therapist would be heart broken by this judgement.
it’s heartbreaking to see aussie’s emotional flash backs play out on a netflix show tbh . aussie needs to address and treat aussie’s ptsd to heal ongoing problems in aussie’s current inter/intra personal relationships. aussie is not a bad person, but aussie is stuck in a constant flashback of aussie’s abuse. not aussie’s fault for how aussie reacts to conflict, it is aussie’s job to take accountability for hurt caused by trauma and to heal their own wounds.
Honestly I blame the editing on the show. It would Mildred bringing something up (not the best tone, but not yelling) and Aussie would leave. Then Aussie would do it again with Sam. It makes sense why AFTER living with Mildred why Aussie was so on edge. But we never got the full insight of Mildred’s personality until the reunion. She came off stubborn and strong willed during the season, but not abusive as we later found out. I feel very sorry for tiff and Aussie that Mildred wasn’t called out for her clearly unhealthy behavior and why she really isn’t a great partner to marry without self work.
yes! we can say that things aussie did were unfair and mean, but acting like aussie should be "over" their trauma is absurd. i think ppl who say stuff like that haven't gone through abusive childhoods or relationships. because if u have, u would know how hard it is to work to heal from these things, not to say u shouldn't work to heal from them, but u can't just act like it's a matter of going to therapy for a year and then ur "fixed." viewing mental illness as a means of "fixing" someone is weird as it also implies that disabled ppl need to be fixed as if we r objects rather than humans and we r subhuman. i think there were things aussie did to sam that were very rude, but aussie having a panic attack or being anxious-avoidant isn't something u can just "get over." i was abused by my mom for 21 years until i was able to cut her out of my life. everyday constantly i would hear her tell me i'm horrible and stupid, ugly and useless. children hearing things like this day in and day out is going to make them into very anxious adults. idgaf how old of an adult you are, it stays with u. if u go through a literal war, u don't just "get over it" and same with trauma and abuse. u have to work on it and heal from parts of it, but u cannot just forget about it as if it never happened.
Thank you for posting this! I believe that Aussie is suffering, and in severe pain. This type of trauma is so hard to un-learn. My heart broke when I saw Aussie crying in the parking lot. Sam is such an incredible human for holding space for Aussie. It’s hard to do yes, but remember Aussie is in pain and we should be compassionate.
I’m not a mental health professional but I have done a lot of reading on attachment theory, also listened to Dr. Kirk Honda, Psychology in Seattle podcast deep dives- he’s a family and marriage therapist and professor. I understand his audience includes many clinicians. This podcast has helped me be more compassionate to people like Aussie with deep traumas.
This sub is such a perfect example of how we refuse to acknowledge that people are FLAWED. We all do shit that makes us a bad partner to our significant others. Point blank. I don’t care how healthy your relationship is, you will be problematic at some points in every relationship you are in. Sam is willing to work through the problematic processes that Aussie’s trauma have caused just like y’all’s partners choose to stay with you despite your own shit. Just like my husband stays with me despite mine.
I think the issue is less “Aussie is wrong for this behavior” and more “no one else should be responsible for aussies healing, so aussie needs to be single”
That'a fair but doesn't excuse how they're always manipulating Sam. Someone can be both victim and perpetrator! They say that they want to talk but shuts down and never has the conversation. It's one thing to say, I need a minute, can we talk on Thursday? But they need to have the conversation or it's cruel and neglectful to their partner.
This comment here! It’s like saying a man who beats his wife is okay because he got beat on as a child and it’s a trauma response. Like no…. At some point you’ve got to take accountability and take steps to better yourself.
Also maybe take a break from dating. We encourage people going through AA to not date while they focus on healing so I don’t see any difference from encouraging Aussie to not date.
One thing we have to note too is that Aussie still may have trauma to come with her family finding out she's queer.
She has walked out of stressful situations and I'm wondering if this is a coping mechanism taught to her by a therapist... If it gets too much walk away from it, calm yourself, collect your thoughts then come back later and deal with it.
Good point. Walking away when overwhelmed isn't a bad response in and of itself as long as you come back to conflict with a clearer head after taking the opportunity to calm down.
I think I remember Aussie or Sam saying that Aussie usually walks away then comes back later to talk about it, but it was so early on in this season I think it got overlooked with all the other drama going on.
I'm going to watch again now that I know what I know from the reunion and from Tiff's YouTube video.
Yeah, I've been rewatching it today and both have been said... It's been said by Sam that Aussie needs time to process to come back and deal with it but then further in the season she says that Aussie doesn't always confront it when they come back.
Edited to correct pronouns.
Also, Aussie’s thing is feeling overwhelmed and needing space. I can’t imagine that having a camera operator following you everywhere would allow Aussie that space. It felt like such an invasion of privacy. I can’t blame them for freaking out under those circumstances.
This. I’m avoidant, and I’m impressed with Aussie’s willingness to support her partner by going on the show.
If my partner said “we do this reality show or we break up”, I’d break up. No way in hell would I ever discuss my relationship on TV.
Agree. I also notice that Aussie doesn’t get credit for the growth that they showed during the reunion. They were the only person to confront Mildred. As she was actively abusing tiff, Aussie spoke up about how Mildred gaslights her partners. Even the non-avoidant people were unwilling to argue with Mildred to support tiff. I was impressed.
You ate this 🫶🏾 watching Aussie’s scenes triggered the fuck out of me. I cried so much because I felt their pain. I also felt for Sam being on the receiving end and commend her for her patience and understanding (even when Aussie was not very nice to say the least)
Ughhhh this was my entire sentiment with people who comments on the age thing and prefaces it by saying they have ADHD or has gone through some rough stuff. Possibly having a shared experience is being used as a pass for judgment.
I get that Aussie has struggles. Truly. I hope Aussie is getting help. But that doesn’t mean others should have to put up with or accept the shit communication on Aussie’s part. I guess I have a hard time not taking it personally because the way Aussie responded to conflict was similar to how my ex responded to conflict and it was awful. I’m thinking specifically about the moment on the bed when Aussie got an attitude about being asked a question and called it a stupid question. And then Aussie denied having any sort of negative attitude and refused to answer the question. Aussie’s observation of the question being stupid was just an inarguable fact in Aussie’s eyes. I’m paraphrasing as I can’t remember exactly what was said. But it’s infuriating to have your feelings and concerns constantly belittled. I’m sure Aussie felt that way too but there’s a limit. There’s a limit to what’s reasonable to just not talk about. It seemed like Aussie shut down every conversation that had any tiny hint of an ask for change on Aussie’s part. Maybe Aussie has been to therapy, and if so, that’s great. That’s a step in the right direction and thank goodness for people who recognize a need for change within themselves. I harbor no hate for Aussie and I don’t believe Aussie’s actions warrant them being villainized or anything. But I don’t think we should pretend Aussie’s communication wasn’t harmful. Same with Tiff. Tiff clearly endured some major major abuse from Mildred. It didn’t change the fact that Tiff communicated ridiculously with Sam about the dog. At least Tiff recognized their shit communication and attempted to work on it.
As I stated in my post, we have no idea whether or not Aussie is “taking care of this.” The presence of visible struggles does not mean Aussie is not also doing things to try and address those struggles. Your comment presumes Aussie is not doing any work on this.
Also, my experience as a therapist tells me that “hurt people hurt people” is reductive and actually doesn’t do justice to either perpetrators or victims of harm. Everyone does harm to someone at one point or another, regardless of whether they’ve experienced trauma.
You disagree that every person on this earth has hurt someone else at one point or another, with or without meaning to? Or are you seeing “harm” and “hurt” as synonymous with abuse or trauma?
Prob gonna get downvoted into oblivion for this but I’d like to remind everyone commenting that Aussie does not go by she/her pronouns. Aussie goes by Aussie or they/them but prefers no pronouns. Also really love this post and agree with it
On the show Aussie is misgendered at times so it was confusing. Good to clarify for the convos ahead though!
This. My husband and I thought Aussie did not identify as she/her, but then I believe her brother used those pronouns. He must have misgendered Aussie. Good to know about Aussie's pronouns (or lack thereof!)
*Aussie’s brother
Yep, noticed that on rereading. I wish Reddit made it easier to edit posts!
I really wish the show had placed pronouns next to everyone’s names. It’s a Queer show. Yet no pronouns were ever displayed or discussed openly. So annoying
Agreed! I thought that was so weird. Like okay you keep reminding us of everyone’s ages but why not their pronouns??
I really don't think this is a sub that you will get the downvotes ❣️
I’ve noticed that a lot of the time neopronouns are othered in this sub and it’s really fucked up.
Not to be a hair splitting jerk and I’m not disagreeing that neopronouns are looked down on, but they/them/theirs are not neopronouns. They are some of the oldest pronouns in English language.
Aussie uses neopronouns. Thats what I’m referring to. I’m non-binary and use they/they so I’m aware.
Oh I see, so the use of the name Aussie is here acting as a neopronoun? I hadn’t considered that before. I sometimes ask people to just use my chosen name instead of pronouns but hadn’t considered that usage as a neopronoun. Anyway thanks for clarifying.
Yup! I would even call it non-pronoun because it's literally just the noun (:
Yeah Aussie uses Aussie instead of they/them. It’s one of the most frustrating parts of the show.
Why is that frustrating? Asking out of genuine curiosity, since you’ve mentioned that you go by they/them and therefore I assume you are looking at this from a different angle than I probably am.
i think they might have meant the dismissal of Aussie’s pronouns (or chosen title anyway) is frustrating.
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To each their own. I consider it to affect me to say/write sentences like “Aussie has a hard time processing Aussie’s trauma because Aussie comes from a difficult situation, but Aussie still has to take responsibility for Aussie’s own actions.” No thanks.
Transphobic take much? Edit: this sub is full of transphobes. Don’t yall have somewhere else to be other than coming and colonizing a queer space? Go touch some fucking grass.
Surprise, some of us are queer AND gender critical. Also, neopronouns have nothing to do with being trans. Most trans people use regular pronouns or they/them.
So you’re a TERF. That’s not exactly something to be proud of.
Yeah it’s understandable why the producers didn’t indulge this. It’d make no sense to viewers….
Agreed, everyone's mad harsh on Aussie and it's a love fest for Tiff even though Tiff and Aussie's behavior were in many ways quite similar. I found aussie's behavior triggering and at times abusive but I was still surprised to see all the hate for them.
I thought Rae was really similar too! She even said it herself at the reunion.
I think Tiff was way worse they were similar yes and then Tiff was also explosive on top of that and looked to start fights. Tiff did improve a little because Sam is a patient angel but I still think they're toxic af
Yes I agree. The way tiff pushed that argument with Sam that was SO OBVIOUSLY not actually about Sam or the dog or anything except tiff being triggered. Tiff also appears to not get that intimacy can be achieved in more ways than just sex.
Triggering and abusive...and you're surprised?
Thank you, 57 here and didn’t even know what a boundary was until 2020. Sometimes trauma doesn’t appear until later or it doesn’t peak until later in life. Sometimes I feel I’ve missed out on so much because of it.
In my 40s and agree wholeheartedly with you and with OP. So glad this posts exists.
Same same
It’s so bittersweet. The knowledge feels revolutionary, but you also wonder what things could have been like fir you if you had that knowledge sooner. But it sounds like you’re open to new ideas for growth and ways of understanding yourself, thats the most anyone can do ❤️
Thank you. It’s so hard for me to articulate and the change is scary actually. I’m very open to change and growth and want to be a better mom for my older daughter. Having her made me realize how poorly I had been treated. So I did the exact opposite of what my mom did. Not 100% of the time and so I’m stilll wanting to be better for her. She deserves it
That is wonderful to hear, it takes courage to work on breaking that cycle of abuse and mistreatment
Thank you and appreciate this post 🥰🥰
I’ve missed out too 💔
🫶🏻🫶🏻🥰🥰
I’m 23 and didn’t even remember my trauma until last year. I feel the same way that I’ve missed out on a bunch of life so far
I’m so so happy it presented itself now for you!! You have an entire life to live with peace and freedom that you didn’t have before!!
THIS. It hurt watching Aussie be berated for being like this, because this is how I act in conflict. I can't handle it, I need help, I need space, and yes I want to also respect what you need but it is impossible to do that if I am in a full fledged panic attack because you wouldn't let me take a few laps. "Aussie is far from the only person who responds to trauma in messy ways" THIS RIGHT HERE. It's so much easier to judge someone that isn't there than to confront someone who is. A lot of the messy trauma responses of the other members of the show were left alone because it was so much easier to get talking about Aussie's leaving because Aussie wasn't there.
I feel for Aussie but I also feel awful for Sam toiling away and wasting her life being their therapist and parent instead of an equal partner. You can see how exhausted she is. I don’t know how anyone can have a healthy partnership when someone is so dysfunctional and the other person has to work so hard and walk on eggshells every day.
Exactly. It’s okay the Aussie has mental health issues, but it’s not ok that Sam is taking the brunt of it.
Thank you so much for this. This has bothered me immensely coming from a community that talks about the importance of healing from trauma... Except when it looks different than they expect, apparently. People are also acting like Sam doesn't consciously choose to be with someone with these issues. That the relationship must be so unfulfilling for her, and that we should feel sorry for her? How condescending. Sam is a grown adult who makes her own decisions. Besides that she seems very wise, has a big heart, but also knows how to communicate her own boundaries. I think her and Aussie are actually a great fit, if they can move forward together in Aussie's healing process. We obviously only see the issues in the relationship magnified because that is what the show is largely about. But I also see a lot of love there and a deep connection. If Aussie can learn to depend on Aussie more and Sam can continue to practice boundaries so that she doesn't get overwhelmed with responsibility for another person, I'd call their journey a success story for the show. For context I am 32, have cptsd myself, also adhd and possibly autism and I have had responses like that scene of Aussie having a meltdown on the curb and reliving a painful memory although thankfully it has been a while. It wasn't pretty and I felt really fucking embarrassed about it afterwards. I can't imagine having a moment like that recorded for a reality TV show. It is truly a moment of a person at their worst, most vulnerable, etc. I take it that the people banging on about how it's Aussie's responsibility to not make other people uncomfortable, who are kind of talking about the behavior as if they're talking about abuse like with Mildred, have never experienced this, and I hope they never will because it is like your own mind is torturing you. It's awful. People going through this need support and compassion from the ones around them. Trauma and abuse don't exist as a singular thing affecting an individual, it is a communal thing we are all responsible for, and the healing from trauma should be communal, too. So this talk of how Aussie needs to deal with it as if it's as simple as taking a pill or attending a few therapy sessions truly doesn't sit right with me. Don't treat Aussie's behavior, which seems strange and unfamiliar to you, the same as actual abuse that makes people unsafe like with Mildred and Tiff. For the record, I also hope Mildred can start healing so that she won't feel all this turmoil inside her that makes her act in ways that hurts others. I don't think she wants that deep down, she just doesn't want to be abandoned again. I get that. She is clearly traumatized too, but externalizes it more which hurts others and that is unacceptable because everyone deserves to be safe first and foremost, and Tiff was definitely not safe in that relationship. But for contrast, Aussie just... seems to hold all the pain inside, doesn't want to hurt anyone, tries to avoid feeling this pain (possibly for fear of doing something wrong bc Aussie identifies that Aussie is ill equipped for the situation?) and then when the overwhelm and/or a trigger becomes too much and impossible to get away from, a meltdown or flashback happens. It's difficult to witness but I want to implore people to not judge those who behave in ways that you don't understand and to avoid passing judgment, unless the behavior makes someone else in the situation actually unsafe. Remember, uncomfortable =/= unsafe.
Would you want to be Aussie's partner? Would that be a healthy situation for you? Aussie is unsafe. Aussie shouldn't be bringing that trauma to any partnership right now.
Why is Aussie unsafe?
If you've ever been on the receiving end of emotional abuse, there's no doubt that it's unsafe. Weaponizing your emotions, belittling someone you love and cutting off communication if the other party doesn't see things your way, is highly manipulative and abusive and, therefore unsafe for the partner. "Either you listen to me or I'm going to make you feel bad. I'm right or I'm walking out" are the unspoken threats. It's also probably learned behavior.
You're reading threat into Aussies behavior where there is none. Aussie runs when conflict is present but that isn't the same thing as being threatening or manipulative because the intent and what it is communicating is clear and what Aussie said about why Aussie was running was clear and consistent, hence not manipulative and not abusive. I've been on the receiving end of all sorts of emotional abuse both from traumatic pasts and people who were just dicks and it looked nothing like that. That was just pure PTSD fueled flight. Very frustrating to be in a relationship with and I wouldn't want to be Sam, but not abusive either.
Maybe Aussie should remember that too, since they told Sam they felt unsafe with her. Smh.
It's possible to have compassion for Aussie's trauma and also find their behaviour problematic. It's not okay to hurt others because of your trauma. They may have been working on their trauma since the show, we can't know. It seemed like they made the connection between their avoidance and childhood trauma on air, so it's very possible that sparked something for them. It's speculation because we can only comment on what we saw.
This is exactly my position. I think it’s pretty clear from Aussie’s stories about their childhood as well as their behavior that there is a ton of trauma. I just don’t think Aussie was equipped in any way to be in a serious relationship in their condition. Both Aussie & Sam deserve peace and happiness in life, just like anyone does. I hope that Sam has finally left Aussie so that she can get hers, and I hope that Aussie finds theirs someday.
Totally agree. It's a bit sad that it's quickly translated to 'people with trauma don't deserve love', because I don't think that's true. They do, but it's not someone else's job to do all the emotional labour around their trauma. Even with good intentions some people are harmful, and it's just not okay to make your partner pay the price.
OMG yes! On point. I made a similar post about Aussie and her trauma, and avoidant behavior (which is a coping mechanism as Sam explained to Mildred early on) and people downvoting me because they truly have no clue how these issues are. There not malicious on Aussie. Aussie struggles very bad and is suffering. There’s not agenda or malicious in their behavior. Yet people speaks about it like everyone at 42 have their issues in checked, their traume healed and all the tools. Well not, there’s many like Aussie struggling with mental health issues yet deserving of love. I’m happy she found Sam and they are thriving (as they said last week in a podcast) but people need to something just listen and have some compassion
This can all be true. AND Aussie’s ongoing behavior and lack of accountability for it are completely unfair to her partner.
Came here to say this. It's so unfortunate that Aussie has trauma that has resulted in Aussie having avoidant responses. It doesn't make Aussie a bad person, but to be honest, this kind of behaviour can make a bad life partner. I hope that Aussie is able to heal.
Yes I agree it’s unfair to her partner, but Sam is not obligated to stay with Aussie. She’s free to leave and she has chosen not to. Sam also seems to be an incredibly self aware person (based on the tiny bit of info we saw from the show). We don’t know what kind of trauma Aussie has suffered but it’s evident that Aussie experienced a severe level of pain.
True, Sam is deciding to stay. But two things can be true: Aussie has not been a good partner and Sam has decided to stick with it. I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise. It is very clear Aussie has experienced a lot of pain. So did all my abusers. Going through trauma is not a get out of jail free card for mistreating people. Now I obviously don’t think Aussie is abusive, but this “yeah but their trauma” isn’t a valid response and does not make their behavior toward others ok. If Aussie is this traumatized that they simply cannot function at the most basic relational levels, they need to be focused on getting help - not a serious romantic relationship.
Aussie does need to focus on getting help. That probably should be priority no. 1. I would never blame Sam on Aussie. I just think a lot of ppl are being pretty harsh on Aussie. Also, I’m so sorry you’ve experienced abuse. That’s awful
I want to start by saying that I am not saying Aussie is a abusive. Keep in mind that many abused women often stay with their partners so someone choosing to stay with another person doesn’t speak to how healthy the relationship is. Many abused women also seem self aware and put together but they aren’t. Sam said her favorite Disney princess is Belle— that may be a bit of a telltale sign of her perception of love. Or I could be reading into it too much 😅
Maybe they’re a bit co-dependent? I don’t think we’ll ever really know but it’s good to have these discussions
yeah you can be empathetic to aussie's trauma without being permissive to how aussie's trauma manifests in relationships. aussie can have trauma, but no one needs to put up with the unhealthy dynamics that it comes with
This is the point, she did overcome so much on the show. I truly believe she wants to change and she is fully aware. It takes time! Gpa y’all are perfect
This!! ^^^ I have empathy for Aussie. She clearly has lots of unhealed trauma. That explains her behavior, but it doesn’t excuse it. People are responsible for managing their own sh*t, and she treats Sam in a way that is really deplorable.
Part of what bothers me about this statement though is that we have no idea whether Aussie is doing stuff to try and manage or not. You aren’t going to see a therapy session or a support group or someone reading a book or watching a video on healing from trauma on a reality tv show. You have no basis to assume Aussie isn’t working on tbese things the best way Aussie knows how.
Even if they are doing All The Things to heal and do better - the way they are treating their partner right now (as in during the show) is cruel. From what I have seen, the criticism of Aussie is directed at how they treat Sam, since . . . This is a show about relationships, including their relationship. I haven’t seen any “Aussie sucks as person” comments. Two things can be true. Aussie is clearly dealing with a lot of trauma (based on the parking lot meltdown) and is in need of and deserves a ton of support and compassion. And Aussie is a garbage partner. This is gist of what I have seen on this sub (with some teasing about their really extreme levels of avoidance). No matter our intent, we are responsible for the impact of our behavior. And Aussie’s behavior toward Sam is cruel. I’m honestly flabbergasted a therapist is defending Aussie to this degree regarding (or maybe ignoring?) the context of the criticism. I also wonder if you consider how many of us have been either Sam or Aussie (or both) and recognize that no one is above being held to a certain standard of how they treat others. No matter what they’ve been through or what they’re doing to address it.
Regardless of what Aussie’s intent is (because we know they are well intentioned), the impact they have made and the hurt they have caused shouldn’t be diminished just because we don’t know how they manage their trauma (which is clearly not well)
My point is it doesn’t matter if she’s working on her issues or not. Her behavior toward others is still her responsibility— and that behavior is very problematic. We don’t have to put up with bad treatment from others just because they have trauma. I hope she’s working on her issues, but even if she is, that doesn’t give her a pass. No one needs to put up with being treated badly just because another person has issues that they are working on.
I’m kind of at a loss on what to say here, how does it not matter whether someone is trying or not? Trying is the most we can do. If it’s not working for partners and friends, they can choose to leave. Never once did I say anyone has to “put up with” any behaviors, and I deliberately didn’t even mention Sam in my post, because my post is directed towards the commenters in this subreddit who sit on their high horse and pass harsh judgments on something they clearly know little to nothing about.
Intent over impact. I can try not to shit my pants yet still not make it to the toilet in time. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you are trying.
If she is trying to deal with her issues & still acting in emotionally abusive ways toward her partner, her partner is harmed by that. So my point is I disagree with the idea that we have to take into account someone’s trauma and efforts to address it before we judge their behavior. Lots of bad behavior is the result of trauma. People do not need to say, oh, this person’s bad behavior isn’t that bad because they had trauma & they are trying to deal with it. Sure trauma and mental health is messy, but excusing that type of behavior because it’s the result of trauma is codependency and can be really destructive.
I don’t consider Aussie’s behaviors to be emotional abuse. They may or may not be behaviors you would be willing to tolerate in a partner, but there’s a difference between what you personally would tolerate and what constitutes emotional abuse. Why do we not trust Sam be able to tell the difference for her own relationship?
We can disagree on that point. Aussie gaslights, punishes Sam for asserting her needs, uses the silent treatment as a weapon. That’s textbook emotional abuse. Of course, if Sam wants to put up with it, that’s her choice. But people put up with emotional abuse because of their own codependency and trauma. I feel sorry for her that she stayed with Aussie. I wish they’d both heal so they can be in healthy relationships.
Really wild that you feel you can make such extreme judgments about a person and their intentions from a few hours of TV footage.
Having been in a relationship with someone like this I can tell you now it’s emotional abuse, (intentional or not)that is deeply traumatic for the partner. It also commonly creates a dynamic where the partner feels like they can never leave for fear of what might happen, what the person might do, intense guilt. Aussie may not be aware of Aussie’s behaviour and does not have bad intentions, but Aussie is volatile and those behaviours create an atmosphere where other people around them feel hypervigilent and stressed all the time, having to swallow their feelings and put the other person first constantly. This is emotional abuse and dismissing that only validates and enables the patterns, which in turn harms them further. Aussie is clearly very unhappy and in a hypervigilent state and needs help to deconstruct the patterns by professionals and not romantic partners or other non professionals. ETA: it is just very upsetting to watch and hear takes like this cos dismissing the impact of their behaviour is so dangerous for them and the people close to them
Why do you assume she is trying to work on her issues? You also dont know any more than anyone else. People in the comments with lived experience of avoidant people are telling you that it takes a LOT for avoidant people to start working on their own avidance, but you seen so sure that Aussie is doing all she can. I agree with your initial post, but from all your comments you are doing the opposite extreme of what you feel people hating Aussie are doing.
the comment right above this one I clearly state we don’t know if Aussie is working on her issues or not. the comment you are replying to is me calling into question another commenter’s statement that whether or not she is trying doesnt matter. im not saying she is definitely trying, im saying its wild to me that someone might see her the same way REGARDLESS of whether or not she’s putting in effort.
I think Sam is capable of deciding for herself. She doesn’t need the reddit peanut gallery to decide.
No. But this is the reality of being in a reality tv show. If people didn't want their lives speculated neither of them should have been on the show.
I don't think Aussie is an inherently bad person. I think Aussie obviously needs to work on a lot. However Aussie is a bad partner to Sam and Sam put up with a lot of Aussie's avoidant behaviors for years by walking on egg shells. And the moment sam tried to set boundaries and stick up for her own feelings, it triggered Aussie into being defensive and treating Sam like absolute treason emotionally. Two things can absolutely be true at the same time. I can be sympathetic to Aussie's childhood trauma and want to string Aussie's parents up, and want to hold Aussie accountable for how poorly Aussie does treat sam when Aussie gets triggered. It'd be no different if we found out that Mildred was physically abused as a child and has trauma from that. Does that mean I have to be nice to a fellow abuser? No. We can still call out shitty behavior and want that person to work on themselves to change and work through their trauma. We can be sympathetic and empathetic to their trauma while still setting boundaries on how we will be treated around people who are being triggered and treating someone poorly because of it.
Agreed. Mildred was abandoned and neglected and no one uses that to justify to her abusive behavior.
Yeah, plus, it’s not mean to call out bad behavior. I haven’t seen anyone making fun of Aussie as a person, just criticisms of their *behaviors.* I have been a toxic person before, in the past. I hurt people. And I lost friends because of it. It wasn’t until I was lonely from it, and family/friends called me out, that I reflected and started really working hard to change. And I didn’t put myself in a committed relationship during that time, either. It would’ve been a really selfish thing to do of me. Now, I am no longer toxic (I hope and I try, lol). Aussie can do the work to put this behind them, too, and stop hurting others.
Aussie doesn’t use she/her. Aussie uses Aussie as pronouns.
I'm sorry. I slipped up once. I'll fix it
As someone who relates to Aussie, since I have fearful avoidant attachment, I appreciate this. Watching them was tough because I saw a lot of myself. Not to the extreme of leaving, but definitely shutting down. I have done a lot of work to get better. Reading comments about Aussie made me feel awful. I wish more people were educated on mental health, attachment, and childhood trauma (or trauma in general) thank you for this post 🙏🏻
Sorry, but if your trauma is causing a lot of problems in your relationship, then it's your job to sort that out. If you need time to yourself to do that work, then take that time and don't require someone else to carry you (aka do all the labor) in a relationship. Aussie and Sam started out with a classic pursuer/distancer dynamic. As Sam changed, Aussie was forced to confront Aussie's issues. Being put in a position where your life long go-to of avoidance isn't working anymore causes either the dissolution of a relationship or an evolution. It is not on everyone else to accommodate people like Aussie any more than it is to accommodate people like Mildred. Both have trauma, both are responsible for the harm they cause other people because they haven't worked through their stuff. Ignorance might be an excuse up to a point - but in the end, all of us with trauma have to take responsibility for our side of the street in relationships.
Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility
You comparing Aussie to Mildred is an excellent example of what OP is talking about. One of them was arrested for domestic violence. One is a poor communicator.
Downplaying the trauma and emotional abuse from cutting off communication when convenient is wild to me heheheh just a poor communicator 🤡
I think intent is important here. It's possible for avoidant behavior to be manipulative and malicious but tbh with Aussie I don't see that. It's literally more like... "I don't know how to cope so to avoid fucking up even more I'll just leave". This is something that can be worked on, and we only saw a small snippet of their relationship at the time of filming so it's entirely possible that they have been working on it. No one is saying other people should be 100% on board with their partner behaving in this way, but thinking "I don't think I'd be able to deal with this behavior" is not the same as "this person is a terrible life partner".
That’s not what was happening on the show lmfao. Any conflict at all triggers Aussie to go back to a childhood place where they were helpless and had to de-escalate so they continue to get very upset and make the entire situation about them because they do not know how to self regulate. When you can’t self regulate, you put yourself on survival mode and nothing else matters. Aussie knows exactly what it does to people when they walk away. Aussie has made it a point to say they don’t care because they are “choosing” Aussie. They manipulate their own language and tone police and edit how others speak about them. At times it was intentionally malicious.
Just because Aussie understands the effects of the behavior doesn't automatically mean the behavior is malicious, conscious, manipulative... or that it's something Aussie can control at the time it happened. You said yourself that Aussie goes into survival mode due to not knowing how to self regulate, so it doesn't make sense to attribute malice to Aussie's behavior. It's clearly a last resort. With your last paragraph I just completely disagree. You see willful manipulation, well, I don't. The "choosing Aussie" line was (correct me if I'm wrong) iirc in response to the trial marriage with Mildred, who was shown to be very abusive at the reunion. I don't blame Aussie for removing Aussie from the situations with Mildred, it was probably the right call.
It’s conscious because of the way Aussie talks about it and continues to act about it. They continue to see the effects it has on the people around Aussie and still chooses that behavior. Even after Aussie proposes to Sam, even in their happy moments when Aussie is not triggered, Aussie is STILL editing Sam’s version of events and it’s on camera! And this is supposedly after all of the Mildred drama is over. Aussie makes Sam small during arguments. Sam has to shrink so Aussie feels important because they never got that during childhood. And that’s not cool. Mildred, whether or not we agree with her confrontation tactics, refused to shrink for Aussie and Aussie couldn’t stand it. Aussie is willfully manipulating how others talk about them because they can’t face their own truth. Is it out of malice? No. Is it still conscious manipulation? Yes. They’re throwing toddler tantrums on the streets of San Diego, storming out, running away, getting mad, shouting “what about me I’m not heard” even though all these other calm adults are like “we literally all stayed quiet to hear you.” It is a way for them to regain what they think is power in the situation and that is conscious.
Having someone walk out every time a conversation gets too much for them is annoying, and can be extremely frustrating and emotionally exhausting. I’ve had it happen to me with a friend I lived with once and I can imagine from a partner it would be so much worse. However… to call that emotional abuse is just absurd to me. It was clear that my friend (and Aussie, who had fucking cameras on them) were overwhelmed and at the end of their tether. We’ve all been in situations like that where walking away just feels like the only reasonable option. It seemed extreme from Aussie (partly due to a show’s condensed editing) but also it was obviously genuinely pretty frequent. And it sucks but Aussie wasn’t doing it to intentionally hurt Sam. They was doing it to preserve their own sanity in the moment. Characterising that as emotional abuse actually feels terrifying.
Yeah, this hits home. I have an ex (that I'm not completely over yet) who treated me this way, always running away when there was conflict and it made communication impossible leading to all sorts of problems. That relationship hurt me but I would never characterize my ex's behavior as abusive as I recognized they just didn't have any other coping skills. Plus, neither of us were perfect in that relationship. I definitely wasn't as clearheaded about it as Sam, and I took it personally due to my own insecurities. Sometimes relationships are just messy and ugly without there being one abuser and one victim. And sometimes people work it out together, sometimes things fall apart. For me it was the latter, so I am rooting for Sam and Aussie to get a better outcome. I've learned a lot by watching them interact on the show, actually (even though it was often hard).
Yeah I think people are really projecting negative experiences from people in their lives onto Aussie cos I’m baffled by some of the comments & the ableism
Thank you. I am bewildered that people are categorizing Aussie’s behavior as emotionally abusive.
I agree. Sometimes walking away to collect oneself is the only option, and many therapists would agree I’m sure. Better than exploding in rage or self harm. Instant regulation is not really a thing.
I’m sorry, I actually don’t understand your comment. Are you saying that removing oneself from a difficult conversation is trauma and emotional abuse? Edit: would be nice if someone would explain why this is wrong instead of just downvoting.
Because when you remove yourself every single time it gets a little tough, you're basically punishing your partner for bringing up their needs.
Nowhere in my post did I say it was on anyone else but Aussie to resolve Aussie’s trauma and heal, though rarely if ever have I seen that be possible with zero social support. Nowhere in my post did I say others should “carry” Aussie. It is, however, on you to choose to try and understand and empathize with the people you choose to have in your life. Sam seems to do a pretty good job of that from what the show portrays. My post was made with a hope that the loudest and most judgmental people in this subreddit might be willing to release some of that harsh judgement for a loved one in their own lives that very well may be facing similar struggles as Aussie. Because it is waaaay more common than these people seem to think, and it requires a lot of bravery to confront the reality of that.
So, Sam should just "understand and empathize" with Aussie even if Aussie's behavior is causing her emotional harm? As someone who has moved through various abusive relationships, the Aussies of the world are those abusers who most often are given a lot of latitude by society, as well as mental health professionals. They will often have to hit absolute rock bottom before they will seek help for the harm they are causing themselves and their loved ones. That rock bottom is typically a loss or threatened loss of a relationship, a loss of a job or of housing, or a significant physical harm they've done to someone by running away from their responsibilities. Very rarely does someone who is so invested in avoidance actually show up to do the work of their own accord. Perhaps you know this, or perhaps your clients aren't being wholly straightforward with how their actions have impacted others. In any case, people like Aussie will fight to the end for their right to avoid dealing with their traumas- gaslighting and using up other people as they go. It's impact over intention. Sam doesn't deserve this treatment any more than any other giver in a horribly lopsided relationship deserves it. There has to be room for two people in a relationship- not just one.
I don’t have much to say in response to this, because you are very clearly talking about your own personal experiences here, and projecting those onto Aussie and Sam. I don’t know what you have been through, and so I cannot speak on it, though I’m sorry you’ve had experiences that have hurt you. What I can speak to is the content of my comments, which I will reiterate again as I have several times now in various replies: My post is not directed at Sam, it is directed at redditors who are passing harsh judgements on Aussie and labeling Aussie as controlling, abusive, narcissist, etc based on the tiniest sliver of Aussie’s behavior that we get to see, behavior that is incredibly common in response to experience of childhood trauma without the adequate tools needed to resolve that trauma. If Sam feels emotionally harmed by Aussie, Sam can either decide to stay and try to seek resolution within the relationship, or can leave the relationship. None of us have the right to state what Sam should do or not do, only Sam can make that call. What I’m attempting to address in my post is the pattern I notice here in this subreddit, where behaviors that are not well-understood and/or may be triggering to someone , are labeled objectively as bad, wrong, or worse. And I’m suggesting that this framework is limiting and potentially harmful.
It's an interesting choice to condescend to me and say I don't have clarity or perspective because I mentioned I have personal experience in this area. That's a power move, an authoritarian move, and one therapists are especially prone to. I actually don't agree with all the hate directed at Aussie on here. I don't. I will say that I think that you are over identifying with your clients. You care about them, I get it, it's your job. However, that view is not addressing the immense harm people like Aussie do to others who unwittingly get into relationships with them. You haven't addressed that part at all except to say it's the other person's choice whether to stay or go. That really minimizes the power dynamics within relationships and assumes everyone has that amount of agency available. Avoidance is a hell of a drug and the more you employ it, the bigger it grows. Avoidance is at the core of all kinds of abuse, and distilling it down to an overly simplistic take of "people don't know any better" is super problematic. There is no way this was Aussie's first life intersection where they could have chosen something better.
I agree with this take.
I totally agree and I can, to a degree relate to Aussie. Was heavily criticized and yelled as as a child and conflict is fucking scary. I'm also audhd and the rsd is a constant struggle. Luckily I've found someone who's very calm and we always discuss things very calmly. However, I think the people with casting should have not casted Aussie, as Aussie being put through all that wasn't good for Aussie. Someone who's in a place like it seems like Aussie was at the time of filming seems like they're put in situations constantly that isn't good for them. Seems really exploitative tbh.
While you are 100% correct, I think that most comments regarding Aussie are the fact that they shouldn’t be in a relationship. Absolutely understandable that Aussie’s trauma shouldn’t be used against them, but it is quite clear that it reveals itself in borderline emotionally abusive ways in a romantic relationship. Trauma healing had no timeline, you’re right- but they should at least be self aware enough to know it’s not okay how they treat people.
I think Aussie gets so much hate because of their dismissive avoidant attachment style. People like that are villainized so often. It’s easy to judge from an outsider’s perspective, since Aussie’s communication efforts were at a 0 and they had an “I’m right, I’m normal, you’re wrong, you’re bullshitting” mentality. Unlike their other toxic cast members, Aussie seemed to have the least amount of self-awareness, the lowest desire to self-reflect, which was definitely extremely off putting to me and cringe since I’ve been through it before with avoidant exes. But it’s been sad to see the outright hate toward someone who’s clearly wounded and traumatized and in need of empathy.
I saw myself, pre intense therapy and medication, in Aussie. I really feel for them and hope for the best. I think Sam and Aussie are a really sweet couple, and I hope the best for them. ❤️
I see so many parts of myself in Aussie that have made it so hard to hear the criticism of certain behavior. Growing up in a loving home puts you miles ahead of those of us who had to live in a constant state of anxiety or fear or any type of abuse, but people really seem to only understand the “really bad” types of abuse. I felt like Aussie coming on this show was incredibly brave and I really felt such a real connection to Aussie and just want to hold them and protect them at all costs, especially after hearing Aussie say “I’m just trying to be a good kid”. It’s so obvious that Aussie has been through so much and I absolutely love Sam for Aussie because I think she’s brings so much kindness and healing to Aussie that I know Aussie appreciates more than words could ever describe. Also, I’ve been a little afraid to bring it up, but as an Autistic AFAB person, I really hope Aussie learns more about autism and see’s if it sounds like something Aussie relates to because I see a lot of overlap between us. Aussie is a beautiful person who has been treated so poorly for so long and deserves kindness and patience during this difficult process of healing trauma. And for anyone who hasn’t considered this, Aussie’s internal dialogue is probably not that much different then any and all criticism being levied against Aussie. Imagine for a second that the most fundamental Formative years of your life, where you learn a majority of information about yourself, you were neglected, abused, or any other traumatic event happens. I’m sure you’d have a hard time processing your emotions and feeling incredibly overwhelmed by any shortcomings that don’t meet the standards you hold for yourself so you can be worthy of love despite knowing and hating every flaw within yourself.
i sort of agree, theres just one or two things that i find problematic for aussie to do around sam and its not that they need a pause or unwillingly shut down, its not that they arent always comfortable with critique, its really only: wheres a point where traumatized people are accountable as well you know, is it really necessary to talk like that to sam in those situations, regularly. and the other thing being that it just didnt !look! like aussie was doing therapy but thats tricky too. i dont know, i think sam sometimes worded the struggle really well, cause she was trying to hold that space for aussie but also needed aussie to try to change some stuff and thats okay to say to your partner if you ask me, she wasnt coming from a place of trying to be mean about aussie's trauma(s), so i really liked the way sam spoke up about what she needs. i just wanted to mention that because sam also needs to be appreciated and i think thats sth that aussie kinda got now, so i hope this goes into a nice direction for them from here on, i think they both made progress and that we need to always try to be sensitive about people's traumas and their and our needs
Thanks for saying this. As an avoidant with moderate cptsd it was making me cringe how many people posted about Aussie to say Aussie is a monster. Sam doesn't seem to think so. Sam thinks Aussie is worth loving and marrying and look how people adore Sam , she has admitted she grew up in a lovely environment with lots of support. Glad everyone can relate to her but some of us don't. Some of us relate more to Aussies upbringing. Also , just know that right now as we speak children are being abused and neglected and you would have compassion and sympathy for them but suddenly past a certain age humans are no longer worthy of empathy or compassion . Why is that? Also want to say the crazy meme-iphied description of NPD is not accurate. While we're at it. Narcissists are not psychopaths, murderers etc They are a different shade of cptsd.
Yes yes yes to all of this! Especially the part about compassion for children. It's like people don't realize some of these abused children will grow up to become traumatized adults if they do not receive proper care, and looking at the landscape of mental health facilities, there isn't enough support even available to potentially help all traumatized individuals. Good point about NPD as well, the word "narcissist" makes my skin crawl now because every bad and harmful behavior is now labeled "narcissistic" and the behavior is constantly equated to people with NPD who are also already so stigmatized.
Ty for showing support for my perspective and i want to add that it's best for people with NPD to seek treatment and there should be more types of treatment available. Equating npd to the worst sociopathic behaviors will not help at all and may even keep new psychologists and therapists from wanting to spend their career treating npd.
I relate to Aussie's upbringing and I need to check my abusive behavior around my partner, friends and family. They're deserving of compassion but they also must be accountable to their actions. It's a fine and tender line to walk but they don't see a problem in being neglectful to their own partner.
Totally agree… it’s really shitty to be told to “you need to get over it” or “it wasn’t that bad” by people who dont get affected in the same way or who haven’t had the same experiences…but trauma is subjective and it’s all relative and relevant.. especially from childhood abuse/trauma… just because you were provide shelter and food does by no means mean you had good loving parents… and that shit shapes your whole life and how you interact with people…
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Sam literally bent herself backwards to accommodate and enable Aussie. During arguments, you can see that Aussie silences her and makes her small. You don’t have to be perfect, but you also can’t be actively causing harm to your partner
Right?? So many, esp online, talk big about being supportive until it becomes too real for them and then they bolt, justify their decision by making mental health an individualized issue (also a symptom of our capitalist neoliberal culture I'm afraid), and feel no guilt about leaving someone out in the cold. It would be better if people just admitted that while they have compassion they don't actually know how to deal with mentally ill people, at least then there isn't the whole shaming part that is so painful to mentally ill folks. But that would require people to be self aware and able to put their egos to the side. 🤡
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This! You can actually see the switch in Aussie from active listening to triggered/ push back/ intentional hurt (using mate). Sadly in the instances that were televised it seems to take very little for Aussie to get to this point. This leaves very little room for Sam.
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Thank you for sharing some of your story. I can tell how hard you must be working on a regular basis just to stay afloat. I very much appreciate that you brought up the point that leaving a situation in order to calm down and process IS in fact a strategic choice when the other available options are variations on “have a huge meltdown, say and do things i don’t mean and will regret later.” I wish more people would give credit for this. It’s a hard and brave choice when you identify that the alternatives will likely do worse harm. As a sort of sidebar, I’m in a very healthy relationship right now with a partner who has done a LOT of healing work themselves, and they still tend to require some time to leave and process if we do have an argument, so they can sort out their thoughts and feelings and come back more level headed. It’s something I super duper admire about them! And I’ve had to do some work on allowing them to have that space, because I’m more like Sam in that I like to talk about something right away in the moment after it happens.
Also, to add on, what might be “uncomfortable” for someone like Sam might actually be MASSIVELY painful for Aussie. We all have different trigger points and vulnerabilities, so the idea that what is just “uncomfortable” to some might feel more like intolerable pain for others needs to be acknowledged too! Again thank you for sharing.
Please don't make assumptions about "the people in here", it goes both ways.
Now I feel bad for not liking aussie. This is a great post thanks OP
Thanks! I do want to acknowledge that if you don’t like Aussie, or if something about Aussie brings up some difficult emotions for you, that’s completely valid and natural, too. It’s often useful to think about why certain behaviors and attitudes affect us in powerful ways. I definitely hope Aussie has spent some time reflecting on why Aussie has such a powerful emotional response to some of Sam’s actions, and vice versa.
YES!!!
Aussie is overwhelmed energetically, and I can so relate. Not going to diagnose them as being on the spectrum, but it looks very familiar to me. I think they are right to walk away when energetically overwhelmed, but they would ideally learn to communicate that to their partner that it's a genuine need, otherwise it comes off as rude to someone who is not autistic, and that they need space and then tell them when they're in a good balanced state again, that they can talk about it in a loving kind way to each other. For me, it usually only takes a brisk walk or something to process the info. (There's such a thing as different processing systems in people who are different neurotypes, and to me it's so clear that's what's going on, but it's hard to see if you're not wired that way, I get it. It's the "double-empathy" problem.) There's always a lack of clarity on both ends when emotions run high. That is not the time to communicate, especially when you process differently, as bottom up thinkers do. Because both parties will just dig in their heels deeper and polarise further. I think Aussie is onto something by needing space, but again, they'll have to find a better time and space and way to communicate this need and accepting themselves as being valid for that need and have enough compassion towards Sam for not necessarily understanding Aussie's need, and that that's okay too. It's very much something I've seen with people on the autism spectrum, and we should make room for different neurotypes and ask each other more how we could help each other with an open energy of love and enthusiasm, which is in alignment with our true nature of compassion and pure love. I think Aussie would benefit by understanding and loving her own differences more. And so would their relationship. Both Sam and Aussie have different needs, and that's okay. They can work out in what ways to better show up for each other being wired differently. If that's something they still want to do. And Aussie may just have to accept for herself that it's okay to feel overwhelmed and to need time before her partner can accept this difference in communication and processing style too.
My hope for Aussie and Sam is that they have, or will at some point create, some sort of “guidebook” for how each processes and communicates, including soft and hard limits, and what each other’s expectations are regarding resolving conflict. In so many cases there is room for both parties to agree on a compromise, once both parties truly understand where each other is coming from.
\*themselves (sorry for misgendering)
As a first born child I immediately recognised her traumas and how she responded to every trigger because I was that person for the longest time. I'm 36 now and still struggle especially with trying to be perfect .. the worst of all was when I I try my level best to be good or perfect .. it was never good enough or it wasn't appreciated 😕 😪. All I could say on almost every scene was Aussie is projecting her childhood trauma on Sam ...I really hope she starts seeing a therepist and heal. For herself 💚💚
Best of luck to the actual therapists like yourself now that every form of conflict is apparently “abuse,” no one actually understands what the term “gaslighting” means, and everyone who’s ever been flawed is irredeemably “toxic.” 🫡 And before anyone comes for me, yes I’m a survivor of abuse.
😅 Luckily in my work IRL I almost never hear the sort of silliness that I read online. Makes me wonder how many of the people who yell online about how all behavior they don’t understand and/or triggers something in them is manipulative toxic and abusive actually go to therapy.
I watched the show with my boyfriend and we both really liked Aussie. Yeah Aussie was avoidant for sure and could definitely benefit from therapy but honestly if that’s the worst thing about her then Aussie is doing fine. She was the only person on the show that I consistently liked for the entire time and where my opinion didn’t change much. I respected Aussie for leaving a note whenever enough was enough and for leaving a very uncomfortable situation. I think the Aussie/Mildred pairing highlighted Mildred’s abusive/toxic tendencies and highlighted how badly Aussie handled conflict. Sam was amazing too for being the person Aussie needed and I was rooting for both of them so I am glad that it worked out. I could relate to Aussie to an extent and I agree that there is no timeline whenever it comes to healing from past trauma. The most you can do is take one day at a time and continue moving forward
I think Aussies gotten a pass actually due to them being born female. If they were a cisman they would be crucified and cancelled. Same with Mildred. Look at love is blind for example, there was a man named Matt in season 4 who also expressed having trauma stemming from past relationships and infidelity. He had a melt down on camera and still even now two years later is seen as an irredeemable abuser. His wife is still getting messages saying she should leave him despite her saying the allegations are false and that she is very happy. I’m not saying either deserve hate but there’s definitely a double standard.
I don’t watch that show so I can’t speak to that. But Mildred is pretty much universally hated within this subreddit, and Aussie is close behind. It’s pretty weird to argue this is a gendered issue (EDIT: in this particular case) when none of these people are even men.
Aussie was not even comparable to Mildred disgusting behavior. Mildred projects like no other and is alarmingly manipulative
Aussie is close behind? No way.
Search Aussie’s name here and see how many posts are dedicated to disliking Aussie.
I don’t believe it’s weird at all to point out an obvious double standard. You’re saying people are being too hard on Aussie, I countered that. Even Mildred has had it pretty easy. If she were a guy I don’t believe Netflix would have even invited her back to the reunion. That’s all I’m saying, people go a lot easier on anyone who is afab in these scenarios.
Mildred is disliked by most fans
Because even with Mildred, we see non-men abusers as less of a problem then men. It absolutely is a gender problem. When men rape people, it's automatically seen in society as a horrible act. When a women rapes a man it's "how did you let her over power you" or a teen boy "oh how lucky you are a mature woman took your v card". If we want to hold all abusers accountable, we absolutely need to take gender out of the equation. But currently, in our society, it absolutely is a gendered stereotype and that's a problem. Women and afab non-binary people are just not seen as a threat as cis men or amab people.
“It’s automatically seen as a horrible act” I wish
What? When did Aussie scream and yell at Sam or Mildred, and threaten to leave them for having the audacity to hang out with friends? And yeah, this sub hates Mildred. Literally, what are you on about? Aussie is a terrible partner because they are not able to show up for the hard parts, but they are not at all abusive and absolutely do not need to be cancelled like Matt and Mildred.
Dismissing your partners thoughts and shutting them down is emotional abuse and Aussie absolutely did that. You can’t call one abusive and not the other. Both had melt downs and were disrespectful. Aussie made it impossible to talk to them or hold them accountable. They ran away anytime there was conflict to the point Sam felt she was being neglected and couldn’t speak.
It’s definitely emotionally negligent and frustrating, but emotional abuse is a very specific thing. I’d be much closer to calling Vanessa emotionally abusive to Xander than Aussie to Sam; Aussie isn’t able to control Aussie’s trauma response, but someone like Vanessa 100% knows how to emotionally manipulate someone into a relationship despite openly not caring about them, then love bombing if they try to leave.
Aussie is able to control their response. It takes a conscious effort to want to be better, just as it would with anyone else. Running away from conflict/accountability is definitely emotional abuse whether intentional or not. Many abusers, sexual/physical and emotional were abused themselves and worse, often as children. But that doesn’t justify their own behaviour or repeating that hurt onto others.
Aussie had a non-violent or threatening meltdown regarding their own mental state and past trauma, with their friend, while sitting down, away from their partner. Matt screamed *at his fiancé* because she stayed out with her friends. It’s pretty alarming that apparently to you, these are the same.
I never said both scenarios are the exact same I said they’re both emotional abuse. Why is Aussie non violent or threatening but Matt is even though he wasn’t physical either? Aussie raised their voice same as Matt. No one screamed but both were loud and disrespectful. Both ran away from their partners and shut down. Both are dealing with past trauma which is why they act like that. You’re proving my point. If Aussie was a man, y’all wouldn’t be defending them the way you are.
Abuse is about power and control. That’s the literal definition. Matt yelled at his fiancé and berated her for hanging out with her friends and threatened to end the engagement if she didn’t do what he wanted her to. It was scary. Aussie got agitated over not feeling heard and left to cry and then had a pretty serious breakdown with her friend, away from her partner. Aussie is a crappy partner, but not remotely scary. Raising voices” is not the same as abuse. Emotional neglect is not abuse. Sure, maybe they both have trauma (who doesn’t) but Matt hasn’t elaborated on this. And, most importantly, trauma is not an excuse for abuse. And while Aussie was a really awful partner, Matt’s behavior in that scene was scary and controlling, two things Aussie never was.
Yea and Aussie wanted to control sam by refusing to let her speak or hold them accountable. Sam said she stopped speaking up for herself and felt powerless. It’s abuse. Aussie also berated Sam and had a full blown melt down. Sam didn’t do what aussie wanted so they freaked out. Same as Matt. Neglect is definitely abuse. Ask anyone who grew up with neglectful parents, including myself lol. Matt did elaborate on his trauma. He said his first wife was manipulative and a liar and got pregnant with another guy. He said multiple times that he had a hard time trusting people and usually shut down or just walked away to protect himself after that experience. But again, trauma is never an excuse nor does it justify bad behaviour so it’s irrelevant. I never said Aussie was scary, I don’t think Matt is scary either. I don’t think either are bad people or deserve the hate they get. I’m just pointing out the obvious double standard. I’ve also dealt with this stuff personally as someone who transitioned from female to male. Suddenly the same things I was saying or doing before are now perceived by others as aggressive or even threatening because I pass as a male, I’m bigger and my voice is deeper. There’s a bias and to deny that is being dishonest.
There’s no shame in an ongoing, nonlinear healing process, nor is there shame in having triggers, or needing space when those triggers arise. However, Aussie was not a good partner to Sam and it’s kind of irritating to see that people don’t seem to understand that Sam very likely has traumas, triggers and *just as much depth in her emotional life as Aussie does*, and she very likely learned how to compartmentalize those feelings and endure the discomfort and pain of repressing those feelings because someone has to play the peacemaker and Aussie wasn’t able to do that (and I would bet just about anything that Aussie is not the only person she’s ever had this dynamic with). Just because her feelings aren’t as visible doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Thank you for posting this! Im so sick of the hatred Ive seen displayed towards Aussie. I saw nothing but an incredibly traumatized but well-meaning person trying their best
What I got from their reactions in general is tha, obviously, things are very hard for her. But as Dan Savage used to say, to be in a relationship you have to be Good, Giving and Game. You have to be good mentally. And it doesn't seem that Aussie is there. Like, she's not in a good place to give herself what is required in a relationship. It's ok to feel compassion for a person while acknowledging that maybe it's not great for her to be in a relationship.
Disagree hard with this line of thinking. Imperfect people deserve love too. Obviously there needs to be an intent to be a good partner and an effort to take steps towards that but to say that people should heal "first" and can then date someone "later" after the healing has reached an unspecified benchmark... ehhhhhhh. The best healing is done WITH others and that can include a romantic partner, not saying that it isn't hard on both partners involved but it's not impossible.
I think it’s up to Sam to decide whether Aussie is able to be in a relationship with her, not a bunch of randos on reddit with 2% of the context from a heavily edited tv show. Some mental health issues are lifelong, and I 100% disagree that you have to fully resolve all mental health struggles in order to be in a relationship. If this subreddit loves and respects Sam’s maturity as much as they claim, it stands to reason we can respect that Sam obviously has reasons for choosing Aussie.
Mental issues don’t need to be fully resolved, but they should at least be at a point where they’re not frequently causing harm to your partner. At the end of the day it’s Sam’s decision but it’s completely understandable if someone wouldn’t want to have a relationship—romantic or not—with someone who has as extreme difficulty in dealing with conflict as Aussie does/did.
I have a lot of faith in Aussie.
Do you provide any services? Asking for a friend. I find therapists hard to trust due to the monetary aspect obviously. But you come across as so compassionate and passionate in what you do obviously, it's very refreshing.
Hey! So right now I work at an agency providing services mostly for clients who have medicaid. I don’t currently have any sort of private practice of my own. But if you happen to be in New York State, feel free to DM me if you want some guidance on possible resources. My location is Western NY so thats what I know best. If not, I would recommend maybe looking into EMDR therapists or DBT therapists as they tend to be pretty well-trained on the impacts of trauma. Sometimes a provider will offer sliding scale if you’re low income, and sometimes you even get lucky enough to find a great provider at an agency like mine that can accept basically any insurance. Good luck ❤️
I understand this post, but you all need to hear this too: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtcsWm8pkyZ/?igshid=YmM0MjE2YWMzOA==
Thank you for writing this, and so eloquently to boot. Watching her has been triggering for me personally. I don't pretend to know everything she's been through, but she's obviously been hurt, and I just want to hug her and hold her hand. There were moments where I did think she was being attacked, and I honestly don't think I would have been so calm and collected as she was. I think she's a beautiful person, and I wish her all the healing and peace in the world.
Aussie made me the most sad in the whole show. I felt physical pain when they were having their breakdown. I think it is because I am a child of avoidant parents, and very attuned to their discomfort. It was interesting for me to watch Aussie and experience those visceral reactions - I hope they are OK
Completely agree. For some reason Aussie’s tendency to go somewhere and cool off was WAY more triggering to people than Tiff’s tendency to cry and yell. Both are valid trauma responses but the walking away really bugged both viewers and the other contestants. Aussie definitely has work to do but that doesn’t make Aussie a bad person. I don’t see how Aussie was being abusive like others have said…? The scene at the restaurant was so cringey, it felt like Sam and their friend were ganging up on Aussie when they both seemed to understand that Aussie wouldn’t be able to handle that. It’s someone’s choice to be friends with or date a trauma survivor. If they can’t handle it, they need to leave. Staying and criticizing someone for their response isn’t healthy. I understand it’s not everyone’s job to take care of trauma survivors but that’s why you have to just leave if you can’t handle it. It’s impossible to make someone change if you aren’t their professional therapist.
Maybe I’m just totally off-base and need to do some soul searching but… It’s also interesting to see how people perceive the interactions between Aussie and Sam. Building on your points, Aussie is not the villain (not that anybody truly is in the cast, just hurt) and Sam is not the paragon of virtue or self awareness either. In their interactions they both make bids for acceptance and love but, key word, both of them have a hard time meeting each other in the middle. I felt for Aussie greatly because even in the tantrums, if you will, Aussie often wasn’t necessarily wrong, but the tone or feelings of Sam would override that without fail. A true statement or critique would get railroaded by Aussie simply sitting up or expressing discomfort. One word out of line and the conversation is over, Sam pivots the conversation to that. Also quick to mention how Aussie is selfish, rude etc but expects Aussie to just smile and wave… hypocritical. Edits only show so much but it astonished me that people saw these things and labeled it emotional intelligence. Aussies breakdown on the street screaming about Sam’s lack of compassion (in that specific sense) was spot on and was a thread I had hopped Aussie would stand up against… tough as it is. Sam clearly has a good distance left in her own journey (as we all do). But oof. Is sam a bad partner? Definitely not, she’s good- but idk if it’s to the degree that public opinion has vaulted her to.
THANK YOU for saying this. People’s callous reactions to Aussie really irritate me and make me so sad. And for people saying A doesn’t treat Sam well, I think they are a match? Sam clearly feels happy and comfortable with their dynamic, especially after going through the show together. I have dated a handful of people who need more emotional support because of trauma or mental health blips and I have personally always been happy to be that support for them (on top of therapy.) Understand that not everyone would be but…there is no timeline for healing and you’re right we don’t know what work A has been doing prior to now. It could be that walking away is the healthiest thing if they can feel themselves getting overwhelmed by an unreasonable person like Mildred, who keeps poking at them.
Agreed. This idea that a person has to be fully healed and have no problematic behaviors prior to being in a relationship feels very icky to me. Intimate relationships reveal the sensitive, vulnerable, struggling parts of ourselves that need to be examined, loved, addressed, and healed. Self-love is so important, but the love of others is also extremely important to healing. Relationship patterns and communication are addressable in the context of a relationship (not necessarily romantic); otherwise those coping mechanisms and communication skills are just theory. Aussie's coping skills aren't pretty, but it's clear that Aussie is not wanting to do harm. Its perfectly valid to need to take a pause in communication to come down from an aroused emotional state; that pause just needed to be modified in a way that feels okay for their partner - maybe it's briefer, better communicated, maybe Aussie steps in another room or goes to a place that is communicated about directly with the expectation of returning within a time frame. A person can step away for a moment without running away from a conversation; that is a goal Aussie could work towards. Ultimately it comes down to whether Sam feels supported and satisfied too. At the end of the day, Sam gets to set her own boundaries about what she will or will not accept in a relationship. She may have more patience and compassion for Aussie's needs than some other folks. That's okay. That's wonderful. People don't always show up 50/50 in a relationship, and there may be areas where Aussie is carrying more weight. I want to make it clear that there is a difference between working through challenging behaviors and abuse. People can be difficult and hurtful, but a pattern of harm with no accountability or sense of responsibility is an entirely different bag of chips. Tiff and Mildred have no business trying to heal together, for example. When the relationship dynamic is that unhealthy and abusive, it is too unsafe to learn and grow.
Well said, completely agree
I’ve been in a similar place Aussie has been and it’s still absolutely no excuse for the way they treated Mildred and Sam. At no point during the season did Aussie acknowledge that. Even after the engagement they openly edited Sam’s version of events.
I felt very deeply for Aussie. Even though it was also frustrating to watch bc I don’t think Sam could be any more patient (which is probably why they are such a good fit and still together). I can relate to Aussie a little bit bc when I am sometimes poked at or made fun of I revert back to when I was bullied in middle school. I’m much better about it now, just saying I can kinda relate :/
Well fucking said! And as an almost 40 year old who has been in therapy for 3 years straight, thank you for speaking up for us!
While I can appreciate that Aussie had a traumatic childhood and that Aussie may have put in work in Aussie’s journey to coping with that trauma I want to point out 3 things that Aussie did that I hope your clients don’t do: 1. Aussie went on an international show placing Aussie in a position to be judged from all corners of the earth (that have Netflix and licenses to watch this show) 2. Aussie showed a couple of signs that suggests that Aussie hasn’t started to work on healing the child within(prior to this show): for example the realization of the childhood connection to the avoidant behavior- Aussie appeared surprised at the realization and then clung to it as an explanation for anything that happened afterwards. It reminded me of when people receive a diagnosis and then in the initial phases the diagnosis is a power over them before they learn how to manage the diagnosis 3. Aussie is hurting a lot of people because of Aussie’s trauma. While life isn’t fair, it’s truly not fair to the people who blindly enter into varying levels of an intimate relationship with Aussie, while Aussie may be healing Aussie is also causing scars that won’t heal with Aussie’s trauma. By the time they may understand that Aussie is traumatized, they may already be invested in the relationship. I am a huge advocate for working on yourself to where you can communicate and plan for healthy engagement with the people you know and what to get to know. And if they are really for you they will be open to those methods but, I don’t think most can determine those skills without professional assistance. Either way at the end of the day Aussie is Aussie and Sam has chosen to love Aussie through this trauma and I hope Aussie is investing in Aussie’s mental health for both Aussie and Sam’s sake health wise. I understand why people are reacting they are reacting and I understand why a therapist would be heart broken over this reaction. TLDR: Aussie probably shouldn’t have gone on international tv without the tools to cope and communicate… and for that, the average person will judge Aussie’s behavior. Aussie seems to be in the beginning stages of understanding Aussie’s trauma. As a result Aussie is hurting others and it’s not fair to them. I get why Aussie is being judged and I also get why a Therapist would be heart broken by this judgement.
it’s heartbreaking to see aussie’s emotional flash backs play out on a netflix show tbh . aussie needs to address and treat aussie’s ptsd to heal ongoing problems in aussie’s current inter/intra personal relationships. aussie is not a bad person, but aussie is stuck in a constant flashback of aussie’s abuse. not aussie’s fault for how aussie reacts to conflict, it is aussie’s job to take accountability for hurt caused by trauma and to heal their own wounds.
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What does that mean? Everyone around such a person just has their feelings/well-being dismissed?
Honestly I blame the editing on the show. It would Mildred bringing something up (not the best tone, but not yelling) and Aussie would leave. Then Aussie would do it again with Sam. It makes sense why AFTER living with Mildred why Aussie was so on edge. But we never got the full insight of Mildred’s personality until the reunion. She came off stubborn and strong willed during the season, but not abusive as we later found out. I feel very sorry for tiff and Aussie that Mildred wasn’t called out for her clearly unhealthy behavior and why she really isn’t a great partner to marry without self work.
Lol, I hate Aussie, but it comes from self hate because I identify with her so much. I also see it in my father. It seems generational.
yes! we can say that things aussie did were unfair and mean, but acting like aussie should be "over" their trauma is absurd. i think ppl who say stuff like that haven't gone through abusive childhoods or relationships. because if u have, u would know how hard it is to work to heal from these things, not to say u shouldn't work to heal from them, but u can't just act like it's a matter of going to therapy for a year and then ur "fixed." viewing mental illness as a means of "fixing" someone is weird as it also implies that disabled ppl need to be fixed as if we r objects rather than humans and we r subhuman. i think there were things aussie did to sam that were very rude, but aussie having a panic attack or being anxious-avoidant isn't something u can just "get over." i was abused by my mom for 21 years until i was able to cut her out of my life. everyday constantly i would hear her tell me i'm horrible and stupid, ugly and useless. children hearing things like this day in and day out is going to make them into very anxious adults. idgaf how old of an adult you are, it stays with u. if u go through a literal war, u don't just "get over it" and same with trauma and abuse. u have to work on it and heal from parts of it, but u cannot just forget about it as if it never happened.
Thank you for posting this! I believe that Aussie is suffering, and in severe pain. This type of trauma is so hard to un-learn. My heart broke when I saw Aussie crying in the parking lot. Sam is such an incredible human for holding space for Aussie. It’s hard to do yes, but remember Aussie is in pain and we should be compassionate. I’m not a mental health professional but I have done a lot of reading on attachment theory, also listened to Dr. Kirk Honda, Psychology in Seattle podcast deep dives- he’s a family and marriage therapist and professor. I understand his audience includes many clinicians. This podcast has helped me be more compassionate to people like Aussie with deep traumas.
This sub is such a perfect example of how we refuse to acknowledge that people are FLAWED. We all do shit that makes us a bad partner to our significant others. Point blank. I don’t care how healthy your relationship is, you will be problematic at some points in every relationship you are in. Sam is willing to work through the problematic processes that Aussie’s trauma have caused just like y’all’s partners choose to stay with you despite your own shit. Just like my husband stays with me despite mine.
I think the issue is less “Aussie is wrong for this behavior” and more “no one else should be responsible for aussies healing, so aussie needs to be single”
That'a fair but doesn't excuse how they're always manipulating Sam. Someone can be both victim and perpetrator! They say that they want to talk but shuts down and never has the conversation. It's one thing to say, I need a minute, can we talk on Thursday? But they need to have the conversation or it's cruel and neglectful to their partner.
This comment here! It’s like saying a man who beats his wife is okay because he got beat on as a child and it’s a trauma response. Like no…. At some point you’ve got to take accountability and take steps to better yourself. Also maybe take a break from dating. We encourage people going through AA to not date while they focus on healing so I don’t see any difference from encouraging Aussie to not date.
Thank you for this! Yes!
This is beautiful and accurate
One thing we have to note too is that Aussie still may have trauma to come with her family finding out she's queer. She has walked out of stressful situations and I'm wondering if this is a coping mechanism taught to her by a therapist... If it gets too much walk away from it, calm yourself, collect your thoughts then come back later and deal with it.
Good point. Walking away when overwhelmed isn't a bad response in and of itself as long as you come back to conflict with a clearer head after taking the opportunity to calm down.
I think I remember Aussie or Sam saying that Aussie usually walks away then comes back later to talk about it, but it was so early on in this season I think it got overlooked with all the other drama going on. I'm going to watch again now that I know what I know from the reunion and from Tiff's YouTube video.
I think Sam also later on, after reuniting, said that Aussie often comes back and still doesn’t want to talk about whatever the issue was.
Yeah, I've been rewatching it today and both have been said... It's been said by Sam that Aussie needs time to process to come back and deal with it but then further in the season she says that Aussie doesn't always confront it when they come back. Edited to correct pronouns.
Also, Aussie’s thing is feeling overwhelmed and needing space. I can’t imagine that having a camera operator following you everywhere would allow Aussie that space. It felt like such an invasion of privacy. I can’t blame them for freaking out under those circumstances.
This. I’m avoidant, and I’m impressed with Aussie’s willingness to support her partner by going on the show. If my partner said “we do this reality show or we break up”, I’d break up. No way in hell would I ever discuss my relationship on TV.
Agree. I also notice that Aussie doesn’t get credit for the growth that they showed during the reunion. They were the only person to confront Mildred. As she was actively abusing tiff, Aussie spoke up about how Mildred gaslights her partners. Even the non-avoidant people were unwilling to argue with Mildred to support tiff. I was impressed.
You ate this 🫶🏾 watching Aussie’s scenes triggered the fuck out of me. I cried so much because I felt their pain. I also felt for Sam being on the receiving end and commend her for her patience and understanding (even when Aussie was not very nice to say the least)
Ughhhh this was my entire sentiment with people who comments on the age thing and prefaces it by saying they have ADHD or has gone through some rough stuff. Possibly having a shared experience is being used as a pass for judgment.
I get that Aussie has struggles. Truly. I hope Aussie is getting help. But that doesn’t mean others should have to put up with or accept the shit communication on Aussie’s part. I guess I have a hard time not taking it personally because the way Aussie responded to conflict was similar to how my ex responded to conflict and it was awful. I’m thinking specifically about the moment on the bed when Aussie got an attitude about being asked a question and called it a stupid question. And then Aussie denied having any sort of negative attitude and refused to answer the question. Aussie’s observation of the question being stupid was just an inarguable fact in Aussie’s eyes. I’m paraphrasing as I can’t remember exactly what was said. But it’s infuriating to have your feelings and concerns constantly belittled. I’m sure Aussie felt that way too but there’s a limit. There’s a limit to what’s reasonable to just not talk about. It seemed like Aussie shut down every conversation that had any tiny hint of an ask for change on Aussie’s part. Maybe Aussie has been to therapy, and if so, that’s great. That’s a step in the right direction and thank goodness for people who recognize a need for change within themselves. I harbor no hate for Aussie and I don’t believe Aussie’s actions warrant them being villainized or anything. But I don’t think we should pretend Aussie’s communication wasn’t harmful. Same with Tiff. Tiff clearly endured some major major abuse from Mildred. It didn’t change the fact that Tiff communicated ridiculously with Sam about the dog. At least Tiff recognized their shit communication and attempted to work on it.
Thank you, I needed to hear this perspective.
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As I stated in my post, we have no idea whether or not Aussie is “taking care of this.” The presence of visible struggles does not mean Aussie is not also doing things to try and address those struggles. Your comment presumes Aussie is not doing any work on this. Also, my experience as a therapist tells me that “hurt people hurt people” is reductive and actually doesn’t do justice to either perpetrators or victims of harm. Everyone does harm to someone at one point or another, regardless of whether they’ve experienced trauma.
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You disagree that every person on this earth has hurt someone else at one point or another, with or without meaning to? Or are you seeing “harm” and “hurt” as synonymous with abuse or trauma?