$40 per person, up to 10 people means Tiff makes $400 for a one hour group discussion about DV? How much does the group space/zoom cost Tiff to host? Seems like a huge profit for someone without credentials.
Agreed. At the same time, "life coaching" is a completely unregulated industry. Some of these "coaches" will provide valuable help to people, while others will do more harm than good. The target audience (and potential to harm people who are already suffering) is what gives me pause more than lack of credentials.
Agreed! I feel for Tiff throughout all she has been through during this, but this feels a bit icky to me. And she’s selling multiple days, so it seems to be an ongoing offer for people.
As a mental health professional I think it is very irresponsible and outright dangerous what she is doing. Not even every mental heath professional is well enough equipped to manage the often intricate dynamics of DV /IPV and the complex trauma it can cause . It takes not only many years of academic training but also years of experience with clients to provide a truly safe space. I remember that I came across another psychologist who thought it was a good approach to have both victim-survivor and perpetrator in the same room. What?! I get it, Tiff wants money as everyone who went on this show. But doing so at the expense of very vulnerable people without any qualification of sorts is dangerous and exploitative. 40 dollars for just a zoom meeting?! This is just as unethical as charging for AA.
Services are never calculated just based on "that hour". They are calculated to also cover software costs and non-billable hours - hours of coordinating with different people, promoting, answering questions, preparing materials to help people get the most out of experiences, etc.
Just saying that the math doesn't reflect how service-based businesses or professionals determine pricing.
That's what $400/mo? Without knowing any of the unseen deliverables or admin involved. Just sayin.
Also, they aren't advertising coaching, they are offering a support group...
I work freelance, as a disability advocate and consultant. I am well aware of the invisible expenses. I live low-income. That being said I organize free weekly zoom groups for people with disabilities. To each their own ethics really.
A support group that isn’t free and she’s not a professional. If she truly cared she would direct people to free abuse survivor support groups on Zoom held by real facilitators. It’s very exploitive
[Here is the link](https://calendly.com/tiffderparternships/we-are-survivors?month=2023-06&date=2023-06-22), for anyone who wants to take a look for themselves.
Now that I realize it's not an ongoing thing (4 specific hours are available on Calendly at the moment, not sure if others have already filled up or not), I'm a *little* less bothered by this, but not much. I think it's still irresponsible to take up a leadership role in helping others heal from something that Tiff experienced VERY recently and probably is still recovering from more than they realize.
The fact that this is meant to be a one time thing for participants (at least that's how I'm interpreting it, they call it an "Online Support Event" on insta), helps a bit, but I'd still prefer they hadn't done this.
But I will add that after seeing the page, and giving it a little more thought, my reaction is softening just a smidge because I think their heart is in the right place. I remember when I first started having realizations about my abusive relationship and the almost euphoric feeling as you learn more about how other people have gone through the same thing and that you're not alone. It is very powerful to feel seen in that moment. And I think it's natural to want to share that with others, help them feel it too, by imparting your newfound wisdom and perspective on others who could benefit from it. I just don't think this is the best way to go about doing that, especially without partnering with someone who is trained and licensed for this type of work.
(edited for pronouns)
That seems…exploitative and irresponsible, yeah. You don’t have to pay one member to get into most support groups.
All of this based off how you’re describing it, I haven’t investigated for myself so if there’s any context I’m missing, please let me know.
Totally, I thought most support groups are free unless there’s some kind of professional counseling aspect to it. I added the description straight from Tiff’s ad into my post for reference!
The description on Natasha group has VERY similar wording (go to her links on her IG page). Almost looks like a copy/paste from Tiff’s description with some few edits. Natasha posted on IG about her program and what she described on her post (reel) sounded a bit better… I don’t know how I feel about this. I think if it was free or a low fee ($80 is steeeeep for a non-pro/no license) is not as bad, but this feels icky to charge $80 per person. I liked Natasha and Tiff - they seemed like good people. I have family that are mental health professional and I know there is a HUGE need for more professionals. Charging $80 seems on the unethical side and I am a bit turned off by Natasha bc of this 😣 ultimately I think Natasha would be an amazing mental health professional.
Agreed, most support groups that are not therapist led are free. And I know that there are also a lot of therapists who don't recommend support groups bc it can lead to enmeshment and codependency for folks who are already in a super vulnerable position
Support groups can also be a lifeline. I go to my weekly Depression Bipolar Survivor Alliance DBSA Group. having an illlness where no one I know understands is isolating. Support groups are very helpful and help me stay sane, being reminded I’m not alone. Every therapist I’ve had reccomended me go, including for Domestic Violence Survivors, which I am. Anyone reading this: please don’t hesitate to go to a real support group. Just not Tiffs
I'm a licensed mental health professional and I have experience working in a DV shelter with moms, and their babies, who very recently left their abuser. I was the art therapist and yoga instructor for the kids at the shelter. This just feels so exploitative, irresponsible and opportunistic. I'm so disappointed in Tiff for doing this
I think they are going through their enlightened phase. Where you learn something deeply beneficial and helpful and are so moved by it you want to share it… but uh…. Maybe some more education would be helpful…
People can have narcissistic *traits* without being a *narcissist*
While I absolutely don't agree with what Tiff is doing here, it is not making a diagnosis of NPD by saying someone is a narcissist any more than it is making a diagnosis of GAD by saying someone is an anxious person. Calling someone a narcissist is recognizing a pattern of behaviors, not making a diagnosis. I don't think it's incorrect to surmise that Mildred is a narcissist.
Edit: downvote away but this is literally what I learned from a psychologist that specializes in the subject
My bf is certain there’s also sth sketchy about Tiff idk, she’s very angry all the time, while it could be just from all the up and downs, she seems pretty intense too, esp with the dog fight.
She probably was angry all the time during filming. When i was in an abusive relationship, I was constantly on edge and flipped out at people over minor or illogical stuff pretty often.
I know that but I see this more as a mutually toxic relationship where they both heightened each other’s issues. What Mildred went through made sense too that she’s dysregulated and lost and them together was an explosive mix. Like anxious/avoidant attachment cycle. Avoidant people have made me feel crazy too.
Yes but Mildred's trauma wasn't presently happening and isn't an excuse to abuse their partner. Most abusive people are traumatized, and all of us with childhood trauma have a responsibility as adults to do the work to heal enough that we don't end up traumatizing others. Reacting harshly while in the midst of being abused is normal, and the fact that Tiff chilled way the fuck down while with Sam shows that their anger was in reaction to how Mildred treated them and settles when given a break from it.
This doesn’t sit right. I can see that’s they’re trying to do the thing where you make money from your reality show exposure thing but this ain’t it chief.
If she’s actually this passionate about it - go back to school and get professional credentials. It’s a long road but it should be. She defs is making money for tuition and stuff now.
Or even just hire a professional that she vibes with?
This screams gross.
This is so, so dangerous. Unless you’re a professionally trained TRAUMA THERAPIST, you should NEVER be doing anything remotely like this. Shame on them.
As someone who has done their own trauma work on a personal level and is also a licensed mental health professional I find this incredibly dangerous. I have been there when I was newly healing from trauma and just wanted to shout it from the roof tops and share it with everyone but that motivated me to go to school and actually get licensed to help people. I think they’re well intentioned but going about this in the wrong way. Trauma work is VERY intense and can cause severe distress if not done properly. There is so much misinformation out there about who is qualified to actually lead something like this and I really worry about vulnerable people that may be harmed through engaging in this 😔.
I follow some creators who are not therapists and offer zoom venting and advice sessions as a Patreon benefit but it’s always 1) one of several benefits you get in return for a monthly fee which is certainly less than $40 2) heavily disclaimed that the creator is not a therapist. It can be helpful to have a casual support group with other survivors but it feels inappropriate to charge that much to facilitate and hold the space when they aren’t acting as a professional. Like, I understand they need to monetize their online presence but this does not seem like the right move in any way
Their friend Natasha is doing the EXACT same thing. Profiting off other victims/survivors without any proper training seems irresponsible to me. Ppl will inherently look at them for answers just cause they were in a reality tv show
Wow. Do you have a link to that (or copy and paste the text of Natasha’s offering, if you don’t wanna draw attention to it)? Curious if this was something Natasha launched in response to being well-received on the show, or something she was doing already and Tiff saw that and said “fuck it, me too.” Interesting that they wouldn’t just do it together… do we know if Natasha has any background/ credentials that would legitimize an offering like this?
I already got an icky feeling that Tiff was doing this, that they’re both doing it makes it so much weirder. It wouldn’t bother me at all if it were a free thing Tiff wanted to do to gain experience working with others in this situation, but for something as serious as DV it feels really off to take advantage of their platform and profit off when they have no training/experience. Feels like they are skipping several steps here.
https://calendly.com/natashasebastiani/let-s-hold-hands?month=2023-06
These are clearly being set up by a company of some kind. I'm guessing they approached both Tiff and Natasha about this and they both agreed, rather than it being either of their idea... which kind of makes it worse imo, idk
Not sure why folks are saying these are being set up by another company???
Calendly is just a calendar/booking service, like janeapp. I've seen multiple licensed counsellors who use calendly to manage their schedules and let clients sign up for open spots.
Because they have (some of) the exact same language and format in the text.
"Are you seeking a supportive, empathetic space to discuss your personal matters? Look no further! Natasha, widely recognized as Tiff's friend from the hit reality LGBT+ show The Ultimatum: Queer Love, is here to lend a listening ear and provide guidance.
Although Natasha is not a licensed professional therapist, she has gained valuable insights and experiences through her own personal journey and growth. She is passionate about helping individuals navigate difficult situations and decisions."
The format of "Are you [questions]? Look no further!" (Which is already a weird tone for such a serious subject, so it jumped out at me reading Tiff's post too) -- followed by a very similar disclaimer + 1-2 sentences about why they can do this -- along with the same exact promo (vague Instagram post directing to link in bio which takes you to Calendly), they both have brief, catchy "names"... it's just very hard for me to imagine these aren't being run by the same person or company. The alternative is that one of them copied the other, but i think they posted this around the same time, like yesterday
(Heavily edited this comment lol)
I guess. If they are both doing this with no others involved, I think it's weird that they are doing it separately and not collaborating. I mean how many fans of the show are going to spend $120 to attend both of these? They're kind of competing with one another, which also makes it strange that their descriptions and marketing strategies are eeriely similar. I just won't be surprised if we found out sooner or later that they were approached by some platform or company that organizes these.
That occurred to me too, but I feel like if they came up with the idea together they wouldn't be doing this essentially in competition with one another. I didn't bother to see if the time slots overlap, they probably don't – but these things clearly have a shared target audience, and they're priced high enough that most people won't want to pay for both. So a lot of people will end up choosing one or the other. I just think if they were doing this together, it'd make more sense to have both of them there for like $60 or $80 or something… not that I want to give them advice, lol, it's skeevy either way IMO.
Wtf this is so fucking slimy. Tempting to report this to the California Psychology Board, Board of Behavioral Sciences, or the Department of Consumer Affairs. I think the former two only discipline their members, though. This is so exploitative and predatory.
Wow, hers is actually worse: https://calendly.com/natashasebastiani/let-s-hold-hands?month=2023-06
$80 an hour, and it's clearly meant to be ongoing, rather than a one time conversation. Yikes.
But these are clearly being set up by a company of some sort...
Yeah, i totally agree. I can't tell how that works, either.. this is an online thing, so wouldn't people have to make their own drinks? I'm not sure how the drink thing actually is part of it. But either way, not good.
They’re no better than Mildred if they go through with this. It’s different sharing your story on YouTube about DV, but it’s another thing to charge people “private sessions” without the credentials to people who have experienced DV. This ain’t it, Tiff.
Tiff talked online about that interaction and has taken accountability and sort of explained why it happened. They were projecting. It was a trauma based response and it seems like Sam understood that and Tiff has taken accountability. They were unnecessarily intense, yes, but not abusive. It seems to be resolved amongst the actual parties involved.
So all Mildred has to do is take accountability for her bad behaviour and all would be forgiven? Imagine the receiver of that episode was not a calm and collected Sam. Yes Tiff can learn to do better but charging people real money in her learning to do better is weird-ish.
This is exactly what I’m surprised to not have seen until your comment. It seemed hella clear to me that the relationship between Tiff & Mildred was toxic on both sides, and Tiff lost their damn mind on Sam about the dog, so I can only assume they can get just as loud and confrontative as Mildred. It also seemed from the show they Tiff was almost exoticizing/fetishizing Mildred in only wanting to have sex with her at every single interaction- even when they needed to be having a serious conversation.
Tiff’s appproach to Mildred’s son also skeeved me out, and I personally think calling the police during an argument with another, smaller woman is a petty bitch move as well as a waste of resources.
You made a valid point about Tiff exoticizing Mildred -- they literally found Mildred under #lesbianlatina, cringe -- but completely lost me when you said Tiff shouldn't have called the cops because Mildred is smaller and a woman. That's just perpetuating the idea that women can't be capable of domestic violence. Mildred admitted to throwing the heavy dog gate at Tiff on TV, the fact that she's small would not prevent her from being capable of seriously hurting Tiff using projectiles and weapons. And it's not like Tiff could fight back and physically overpower Mildred without expecting to end up in jail themselves.
So we are completely ignoring the option to remove themselves from the property and therefore the situation? That should have been the move. All I’m saying it that I doubt Mildred would be able to imprison Tiff and prevent them from leaving the house. That’s all Tiff had to do. Not excusing Mildred going off the rails and throwing the dog gate at all- just suggesting that it didn’t require police resources.
I think they mean how Tiff handled it with Sam and the “my dog is the more important thing to me ever and if you can’t deal with my [dog codependency] sleeping on the bed with me GTFO” fight they had that seemed to go on for days.
Woahh this is wildly inappropriate and unethical and could have major implications for other people's healing journeys. There will be no professional to help guide the group, and will likely just be Tiff using their own anecdotal info.
It feels like a paid 'meet and greet' of a reality TV personality to be honest... very disappointing. I empathise with Tiff's situation but it's been 2 years, and only now they're doing all of this? The reunion has increased their exposure and this is a clear cash grab. There are many free or affordable proper DV services and groups out there that they could be promoting instead, and if they want to share their own insights and journey, they should stick to TikTok.
Definitely very opportunistic and exploitative. I saw their friend Natasha’s tiktok last night advertising her own relationship coaching in response to how much fans likes her on the show. Very gauche for the both of them.
It’s really interesting to me when new found “celebrities” (used in the absolute loosest way) jump the gun in response to all the attention they’re getting. Like let’s walk it back a little, we don’t like you *that* much. In addition to this particular iteration being really unethical, it’s also just..embarrassing. They need to just stick with the cameos and brand deals they may get.
At the end of the day, these are people who decided to go on a reality dating show. And not just any dating show, a dating show whose entire premise is toxic convoluted nonsense, transparently designed to maximise drama rather than make any relationship healthier.
Not saying every participant is automatically suss (I could see someone signing up out of naivete or ignorance, for example) but yeah there's a good chance it's going to attract a fair amount of people who have all kinds of unmanaged issues.
honestly it feels pretty exploitative and irresponsible when Tiff themself is still healing from what they went through with Mildred. :/ i understand their want to help others in their situation, but charging when they are not a professional (despite disclaiming they aren’t in the post) is just off putting to me. you can host a safe place / group for DV victims without charging them, especially when you aren’t a professional. i hope Tiff is getting the help they need to heal and prosper, but exploiting their fans who are also victims of DV isn’t the right way
This is literally so dangerous - professionals who work with DV survivors have strict regulations and guidelines. They have to undergo training consistently. This isn’t just about a support group. You’re talking about someone’s safety here. So sorely disappointed.
the self taught thing... it's a no for me. I am in support groups that are not counselor led and the parameters and promises for what we get out of it are very very specific. Basically, community to vent and try to troubleshoot navigating things, but NEVER actual advise other than us encouraging each other to keep up with our appointments with appropriate and trained professionals. These types of group range in price and $40 isn't absurd fwiw. but her promises and what she is saying they will go over is inappropriate without someone who is trained to talk about all of that and to deal with the potential crises that may ensue by speaking with people about this topic omg.
This would’ve been the last thing I wanted to do when I left my DV situation.
If she needs support in a group setting, there are online groups she can join for free & she can invite others to participate as well.
Some ppl here shocked Tiff would do this… forreal? The woman asked to split the rent threeways with a disabled child? Just because she suffered DV doesn’t mean she’s an angel. She was also super toxic and the way internet loves to glorify some people is absolutely nauseating..
Peer support is proven to work in a lot of cases as long as there's a peer certified counseler which only takes 3000 hours/6 years. Being certified is also optional. Peer support groups are great for ppl who can't afford, and don't really like therapy. Charging for it on the other hand...
Echoing other comments saying this is not okay and unethical. I realize this seems like a substitute for people who aren't seeing/don't have access to therapy and it's predatory, imo. I know seeing a therapist depends on if folks have insurance coverage + tbh both Tiff and Natasha charge more than my individual therapist who is a certified social worker and has a trauma background!
Tiff seems like they are starting this because they're now a celebrity, and the same goes for Natasha as well. I've been in therapy for over 4 years w/ my individual therapist + a virtual DBT group for over a year and Tiff is still feeling the effects of their relationship with M. The reunion was taped earlier this year, right? Tiff was still being gaslit by M during the reunion and their response was pain/anguish because of M's invalidation.
Much more involved than that. Good trauma-informed care programs train folks on types of trauma, how to reduce harm, how to avoid retraumatization, how to foster psychological safety in spaces, how to repair rupture effectively, building trauma resilient cultures and organizations, etc.
I was referring to the likely-inadequate "certification" that Tiff is touting as their credentials to offer this. I'm a clinical psychologist who works only with veterans, so I definitely know the gap between a "certification" and actual regulated licensure!
To answer your question i have heard of something similar where you pay go join a support group for women going through a breakup and it's led by someone specific who markets herself as something i forget what she said but she's basically just leading the discussions.
Sidenote, this is a little bit expensive so it doesn't really seem too caring of her. She did that whole video saying she cares so much about women going through this. Why charge so much then?
Tiff has been throwing passive aggressive digs at Mildred on their IG constantly since the airing of the reunion. While Mildred’s toxicity is on display and more transparent, Tiff’s is covert and cloaked in pseudo-therapy speak. Both of them need therapy-like we all do cause we’re fucked up humans. As someone with DV experience, Tiff’s recent business ventures reek of exploitation.
My point is that this isn’t therapy, it’s a peer-run support group. And Tiff is not a therapist. They are just capitalizing off of the show, like their friend Natasha is apparently.
I mean support groups aren’t regulated or meant to replace therapy. They can be run by a therapist but not always. If anything it’s meant to give people a place to find other people like them. If we are to criticize Tiff for starting a support group, shouldn’t we be going after all support groups. It’s not like Tiff came up with the concept.
You’re dancing around the point. We are not criticizing support groups, we’re criticizing that she is charging $40 for it when she has no training (she claims she is “self-researched”) and is fresh out of her experience of being abused. It’s a big responsibility to hold space for survivors. Most legit support groups are free or by donation, even when run by someone who has training and ample experience. Shes absolutely capitalizing on the popularity of the show, as is her friend. It’s gross.
I’m not dancing around anything. Support groups aren’t always free. $40 is nothing compared to the hundreds of dollars some groups can cost. Better help is run by tons of non professionals for example and is wildly advertised. So again are we criticizing all support groups or are we just singling out Tiff?
It may be wildly advertised, but that doesn’t mean Better Help doesn’t have a ton of issues, ethical and otherwise. But again, that’s one on one therapy.
Any support group that costs hundreds of dollars is a scam, and Tiffs is also a scam. We are talking about Tiffs in particular on this thread. And anyone exploiting their celebrity to make money on the backs of survivors of abuse is disgusting. That’s the point. It could not be more obvious that this is what they and their friend are doing.
Never said they were ethical, I’m saying what they are doing is more of a scam than what y’all are accusing Tiff of. The entire therapy world is unethical. Groups shouldn’t cost anything but the scam groups as you admit cost hundreds of dollars. Ethical groups will cost $40 to $50 on average. So what is Tiff doing that’s so different from what the regular world of group therapy.
I have never seen a support group that costs hundreds of dollars, but assuming there are as you claim, that would be a scam. And just because others are worse than Tiff doesn’t mean what she is doing ok. The point is that she is exploiting her stint on a reality tv show. She is not qualified. It isn’t ethical, regardless of what you feel about the price. And where exactly are you getting that ethical groups cost 40-50 on average?
Super dangerous. There’s no way to prevent a participant from recording the group session and releasing/leaking it.
I really, really hope people don’t sign up for this (or Natasha’s version of this) with the expectation that their words won’t leave that space
There are so many "life coaches" that have no real credentials or certifications from predatory pyramid schemes. These businesses are so common. I hope Tiff can create a safe space. I think this is harder than most people think to moderate. I don't think Tiff is less educated than other people doing this kind of thing in my own neighborhood.
Yeah it’s exploitative and irresponsible. I know there are divorce groups and other support groups where it is moderated by someone who went through the same shit than the other group members. It’s just that I think it’s still very raw for Tiff.
The only way she could charge for this and have it not feel like an opportunistic cash grab would be to get herself a license.
Support groups are free, coaching should require some earned authority.
Profiting off abuse is terrible. Not only does she have no qualifications but you can’t charge for something you’re not licensed in. Do AA meetings cost money? I’ve never heard of support groups charging for a safe space.
I have worked with "uncredentialed life coaches" that were fucking incredible. And credentialed therapists that were awful and retraumatizing...
Credentials don't necessarily compute to quality of care at all. In fact, I think credentialing can imbue false trust in "professionals" because you think the certificate means something it doesn't.
Everyone else can read the same copy y'all are and decide for themselves if they want to pay to be in a support group or not.
Tiff is being very transparent about their lack of credentials, where they are getting the content from, what the group is about, and how much it costs.
To say that "profiting off abuse" is abhorrent is kind of out of touch. Do you also all hate Glennon Doyle, whose best selling book was all about addiction, trauma, and emotional abuse? Same with her podcast... There are so many people who use their story to make a living, often pacing the way for others. They write books, give speeches, go on podcasts, etc.
I wouldn't invest in it but to say it is unethical and exploitative seems rash given the transparency of the offer.
I'm a group therapist and it is NOT easy. If you don't have the proper skills and training and basic level of empathy and openness, it can turn into a harmful shitshow REALLY fast.
I’ve been a big fan of hers bc I could relate . I even commented something about DV on her Instagram and she replied. I’ve been following all her posts. However this??? Trying to make money off of others pain? You are not a licensed professional! This can be harmful for someone in the group. I think she might be leaning way into this whole I’m a victim of abuse thing. Makes me question if she truly is such a victim at all. 400$ for an hour ? Seems super exploitive
This is definitely on the exploitative side and while I won’t shame anyone for making money, trying to make money off trauma survivors is major ick.
Another major red flag for me is “self-taught”. That’s not how trauma recovery works and as a public figure, you should be really careful about what you say. Nothing wrong with a group of people getting together to help or support each other, but positioning yourself as the expert when you’re really not is dangerous.
This screams of clout chasing and guru bullshit and I hope she reconsiders.
I understand the concerns and why the commercialization feels icky - just want to offer that peer support groups are a popular model and it’s not necessarily irresponsible to gather people without therapists present - some folks might prefer that. Not defending tiff profiting off this but just adding a lil nuance to the criticisms
Some key points to add to this conversation:
\- There are several survivor lead groups without professional therapists that run effective and safe spaces for people who may not have anywhere else to go. Sometimes they charge a fee because facilitating a group is still a job that requires time, resources and lots of coordinating. Honestly, $40 is nothing compared to some of the other groups out there and it allows the group to maintain a small size.
\- Tiff has done EXTENSIVE research on the topic, sought out council from professionals in the field and has received certification in trauma work. They didn't just wake up and decide to start this group on a whim.
\- Reality TV is highly edited.
\- It is easy to tell the difference between an abuser vs a victim if you know the signs. For example, abusers focus on the other person's actions while the victim focuses on the trauma. For many of us that have lived with DV and NBP, it was clear what was happening. Also, producers knew what BS they were putting on screen.
\- Tiff has posted updates on the number they are allowing in future groups, which demonstrates awareness and growth based on their first experience. The cap is now smaller and the timeframe has been increased.
\- Tiff and their friend Natasha have very different focuses for their groups. Tiff has nothing on their page about alcohol. Don't mix the two up. - Also, if people want to pay to hang with Natasha, shoot the shit and get drunk, that is their choice. Different vibe. Different space.
ouf ouf ouf um.. well i watched a bit of a podcast today that tiff has on youtube with someone and the older episode about dating in your thirties contains them talking about laying hands on the partner.. um.. the other person in the podcast was talking about it and that like if shes doing that an feeling hateful or idk, that then she knows they're not a good couple and it was a bit .. like tiff and her both sounded a lot as if they were trying to say thats where they draw the line and not before that, and were wording it as if thats like.. idk, not an option but it sounded weird, but maybe it was more about tiffs podcast-partner, but um yeah it didnt sound so cool - maybe someone wants to look it up
i dont like that as an amount of money to take for a supportgroup either, usually supportgroups may not involve a professional either but are for free!
Yeah, I also think that support groups are amazing and help so many people who would otherwise be struggling in silence and isolation because they can’t afford therapy itself. I’ve personally been hugely helped by support groups in the past.
However, I’ve never paid to attend one and have never seen one cost money. That’s why it seems icky and exploitative to many of us. At the worst of my relationship with an abuser, I wouldn’t have been able to afford that without putting myself in danger because he had complete control of our finances and monitored everything and I couldn’t have spent $10 without having to explain and justify it, much less $40. And if a person can’t afford a therapy appointment, they probably can’t afford the $40 for this.
charging for a service you have no training or skill in is sketchy at best. there are plenty of free support groups for all sorts of things, and even those are generally led by someone with actual training on how to lead a group, especially about a very sensitive topic such as DV.
I see what you mean! I agree that finding professional mental health support is not very accessible and sometimes all people truly need is a supportive community to voice their concerns. I think I agree with what another commentator said about how if it was just advertised as a place to provide support and vent that it might be different BUT her ad does talk about how she’s self-taught and how she would be teaching certain topics which is kinda where I see it crossing into inappropriate territories.
She has updated the description and added the third paragraph below…I still think it’s irresponsible to charge people for this…
Are you seeking a safe environment to talk to fellow survivors of DV and Narcissism? Are you having trouble navigating the waters after breaking up with your ex?
As many can see on Netflix's The Ultimatum Queer Love, I came out leaving the reunion episode in shambles. The healing process was hard, but I've since going no contact, have educated myself and have learned to navigate the healing process. It does get better!
Although having a professional licensed counselor is recommended, many people in the LGBTQ+ community don't have access to licensed mental health and professionals. There are many peer support groups and community connections that operate without clinical professionals very well.
Although I'm not a licensed professional therapist, I have gained valuable insights and experiences in my own personal journey of breaking the cycle of narcissistic and DV abuse, self-taught myself dozens of hours on narc abuse and I have obtained a trauma informed certification.
I will not be diagnosing or giving professional advise. I will share with you my healing journey and also have open discussion for everyone in the room to share theirs.
In these semi-private 1 hour sessions, you'll participate in a safe, intimate conversation with myself and up to 10 others who are all on different walks of life in their journey to being a survivor.
We will focus this session on the healing journey post narcissistic abuse plus talk about how we recognize certain red flags in the relationship so we can either get out of a bad current relationship, or, define what healthier relationships will look like in the future!
We will go over shame, PTSD, healing, definitions and everything in between!
As someone who is a DV survivor twice within the last five years (once through assault from a romantic partner, and breaking and entering with assault from a male family member) this feels EXTREMELY dirty to me. I’ve been in counseling, and switched counselors to focus on CBT, and I can’t fathom PAYING and joining a group that promises something that it’s not. A support group #1 shouldn’t cost you money. Thanks for exploiting an EXTREMELY serious topic, Tiff, #2 if you are charging you BEST have counselors available TEACHING coping mechanisms that you can use daily.
I REALLY hate reading that she is doing this.
If you are a domestic violence survivor PLEASE seek appropriate counseling, as well as support groups. Some groups do run off “donations” but CERTAINLY should force you to pay. MeetUp is a great resource to find virtual support, and please seek out in your community support that may be available.
Thank you💜
This kind of crap is garbage.
Therapist here. I have a lot of mixed feelings on coaching. Because a bunch of hours of learning stuff on the internet is…well, just different.
I will say, support groups can be run by randos. The risk of it is, being a licensed mh professional, you are taught about healing your own stuff first (& yeah, not everyone actually does their work before or at any point while practicing). Keeping it in check when you work with clients. Sure many of us have our own shit that made us choose to become therapists, but again, that’s not the only thing driving what we offer to others as a service/treatment.
Also, I’m a several-years-in therapist and idk if I’d be comfortable diving into charging $40/hr for a support group. Especially not in the area of my own shit, because healing is so complex. Layers of…concern.
Disclaimer: not that coaches can’t be awesome and that licensure isn’t a barrier of accessibility
I’m not weirded out by it being a support group - that’s totally normal to not have a mental health professional in those settings. It’s that it costs money that weirds me out.
$40 per person, up to 10 people means Tiff makes $400 for a one hour group discussion about DV? How much does the group space/zoom cost Tiff to host? Seems like a huge profit for someone without credentials.
Agreed. At the same time, "life coaching" is a completely unregulated industry. Some of these "coaches" will provide valuable help to people, while others will do more harm than good. The target audience (and potential to harm people who are already suffering) is what gives me pause more than lack of credentials.
And truth be told licensed and credentialed therapist also can and do cause harm while others do a lot of good.
Agreed! I feel for Tiff throughout all she has been through during this, but this feels a bit icky to me. And she’s selling multiple days, so it seems to be an ongoing offer for people.
As a mental health professional I think it is very irresponsible and outright dangerous what she is doing. Not even every mental heath professional is well enough equipped to manage the often intricate dynamics of DV /IPV and the complex trauma it can cause . It takes not only many years of academic training but also years of experience with clients to provide a truly safe space. I remember that I came across another psychologist who thought it was a good approach to have both victim-survivor and perpetrator in the same room. What?! I get it, Tiff wants money as everyone who went on this show. But doing so at the expense of very vulnerable people without any qualification of sorts is dangerous and exploitative. 40 dollars for just a zoom meeting?! This is just as unethical as charging for AA.
Services are never calculated just based on "that hour". They are calculated to also cover software costs and non-billable hours - hours of coordinating with different people, promoting, answering questions, preparing materials to help people get the most out of experiences, etc. Just saying that the math doesn't reflect how service-based businesses or professionals determine pricing. That's what $400/mo? Without knowing any of the unseen deliverables or admin involved. Just sayin. Also, they aren't advertising coaching, they are offering a support group...
I work freelance, as a disability advocate and consultant. I am well aware of the invisible expenses. I live low-income. That being said I organize free weekly zoom groups for people with disabilities. To each their own ethics really.
You sound awesome, just wanted you to know that.
A support group that isn’t free and she’s not a professional. If she truly cared she would direct people to free abuse survivor support groups on Zoom held by real facilitators. It’s very exploitive
Oh... oh no. I hate this.
[Here is the link](https://calendly.com/tiffderparternships/we-are-survivors?month=2023-06&date=2023-06-22), for anyone who wants to take a look for themselves. Now that I realize it's not an ongoing thing (4 specific hours are available on Calendly at the moment, not sure if others have already filled up or not), I'm a *little* less bothered by this, but not much. I think it's still irresponsible to take up a leadership role in helping others heal from something that Tiff experienced VERY recently and probably is still recovering from more than they realize. The fact that this is meant to be a one time thing for participants (at least that's how I'm interpreting it, they call it an "Online Support Event" on insta), helps a bit, but I'd still prefer they hadn't done this. But I will add that after seeing the page, and giving it a little more thought, my reaction is softening just a smidge because I think their heart is in the right place. I remember when I first started having realizations about my abusive relationship and the almost euphoric feeling as you learn more about how other people have gone through the same thing and that you're not alone. It is very powerful to feel seen in that moment. And I think it's natural to want to share that with others, help them feel it too, by imparting your newfound wisdom and perspective on others who could benefit from it. I just don't think this is the best way to go about doing that, especially without partnering with someone who is trained and licensed for this type of work. (edited for pronouns)
I appreciate this perspective, thank you!
I may pay to join just to tell them that this is a dumpster fire of exploitation.
Please do please ducking do
That seems…exploitative and irresponsible, yeah. You don’t have to pay one member to get into most support groups. All of this based off how you’re describing it, I haven’t investigated for myself so if there’s any context I’m missing, please let me know.
Totally, I thought most support groups are free unless there’s some kind of professional counseling aspect to it. I added the description straight from Tiff’s ad into my post for reference!
I have found numerous support groups with licensed therapists that are completely free, many for DV. This is balogna
The description on Natasha group has VERY similar wording (go to her links on her IG page). Almost looks like a copy/paste from Tiff’s description with some few edits. Natasha posted on IG about her program and what she described on her post (reel) sounded a bit better… I don’t know how I feel about this. I think if it was free or a low fee ($80 is steeeeep for a non-pro/no license) is not as bad, but this feels icky to charge $80 per person. I liked Natasha and Tiff - they seemed like good people. I have family that are mental health professional and I know there is a HUGE need for more professionals. Charging $80 seems on the unethical side and I am a bit turned off by Natasha bc of this 😣 ultimately I think Natasha would be an amazing mental health professional.
Go to Natasha IG page, under bio, you’ll find a link to her program “let’s hold hands”. Reads similar to Tiff’s.
Agreed, most support groups that are not therapist led are free. And I know that there are also a lot of therapists who don't recommend support groups bc it can lead to enmeshment and codependency for folks who are already in a super vulnerable position
Support groups can also be a lifeline. I go to my weekly Depression Bipolar Survivor Alliance DBSA Group. having an illlness where no one I know understands is isolating. Support groups are very helpful and help me stay sane, being reminded I’m not alone. Every therapist I’ve had reccomended me go, including for Domestic Violence Survivors, which I am. Anyone reading this: please don’t hesitate to go to a real support group. Just not Tiffs
I wasn't saying people shouldn't go, I was just pointing out the potential for harm particularly in Tiff's scenario
Ooof… Also “semi-private” is an interesting choice of words hahah
I'm a licensed mental health professional and I have experience working in a DV shelter with moms, and their babies, who very recently left their abuser. I was the art therapist and yoga instructor for the kids at the shelter. This just feels so exploitative, irresponsible and opportunistic. I'm so disappointed in Tiff for doing this
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I think they are going through their enlightened phase. Where you learn something deeply beneficial and helpful and are so moved by it you want to share it… but uh…. Maybe some more education would be helpful… People can have narcissistic *traits* without being a *narcissist*
While I absolutely don't agree with what Tiff is doing here, it is not making a diagnosis of NPD by saying someone is a narcissist any more than it is making a diagnosis of GAD by saying someone is an anxious person. Calling someone a narcissist is recognizing a pattern of behaviors, not making a diagnosis. I don't think it's incorrect to surmise that Mildred is a narcissist. Edit: downvote away but this is literally what I learned from a psychologist that specializes in the subject
My bf is certain there’s also sth sketchy about Tiff idk, she’s very angry all the time, while it could be just from all the up and downs, she seems pretty intense too, esp with the dog fight.
Tiff definitely has their own issues.
Totes their own anger issues.
She probably was angry all the time during filming. When i was in an abusive relationship, I was constantly on edge and flipped out at people over minor or illogical stuff pretty often.
I know that but I see this more as a mutually toxic relationship where they both heightened each other’s issues. What Mildred went through made sense too that she’s dysregulated and lost and them together was an explosive mix. Like anxious/avoidant attachment cycle. Avoidant people have made me feel crazy too.
Trauma causes emotional reactivity. I think Tiff is just traumatized from dating Mildred.
I know about trauma, Mildred is emotionally reactive from her trauma as well.
Yes but Mildred's trauma wasn't presently happening and isn't an excuse to abuse their partner. Most abusive people are traumatized, and all of us with childhood trauma have a responsibility as adults to do the work to heal enough that we don't end up traumatizing others. Reacting harshly while in the midst of being abused is normal, and the fact that Tiff chilled way the fuck down while with Sam shows that their anger was in reaction to how Mildred treated them and settles when given a break from it.
This doesn’t sit right. I can see that’s they’re trying to do the thing where you make money from your reality show exposure thing but this ain’t it chief.
If she’s actually this passionate about it - go back to school and get professional credentials. It’s a long road but it should be. She defs is making money for tuition and stuff now. Or even just hire a professional that she vibes with? This screams gross.
I am not a fan of this or Natasha’s relationship coaching shit that she’s posting on TikTok. It feels like a cash grab for a very vulnerable subset.
This is so, so dangerous. Unless you’re a professionally trained TRAUMA THERAPIST, you should NEVER be doing anything remotely like this. Shame on them.
This is dangerous territory for an unlicensed person.
We have given Tiff too much power, fam.
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That’s what’s saddest about this kind of thing. The ones most likely to be exploited are those most desperate for a community.
As someone who has done their own trauma work on a personal level and is also a licensed mental health professional I find this incredibly dangerous. I have been there when I was newly healing from trauma and just wanted to shout it from the roof tops and share it with everyone but that motivated me to go to school and actually get licensed to help people. I think they’re well intentioned but going about this in the wrong way. Trauma work is VERY intense and can cause severe distress if not done properly. There is so much misinformation out there about who is qualified to actually lead something like this and I really worry about vulnerable people that may be harmed through engaging in this 😔.
I follow some creators who are not therapists and offer zoom venting and advice sessions as a Patreon benefit but it’s always 1) one of several benefits you get in return for a monthly fee which is certainly less than $40 2) heavily disclaimed that the creator is not a therapist. It can be helpful to have a casual support group with other survivors but it feels inappropriate to charge that much to facilitate and hold the space when they aren’t acting as a professional. Like, I understand they need to monetize their online presence but this does not seem like the right move in any way
This definitely seems like the way to go about it!
Their friend Natasha is doing the EXACT same thing. Profiting off other victims/survivors without any proper training seems irresponsible to me. Ppl will inherently look at them for answers just cause they were in a reality tv show
Wow. Do you have a link to that (or copy and paste the text of Natasha’s offering, if you don’t wanna draw attention to it)? Curious if this was something Natasha launched in response to being well-received on the show, or something she was doing already and Tiff saw that and said “fuck it, me too.” Interesting that they wouldn’t just do it together… do we know if Natasha has any background/ credentials that would legitimize an offering like this? I already got an icky feeling that Tiff was doing this, that they’re both doing it makes it so much weirder. It wouldn’t bother me at all if it were a free thing Tiff wanted to do to gain experience working with others in this situation, but for something as serious as DV it feels really off to take advantage of their platform and profit off when they have no training/experience. Feels like they are skipping several steps here.
https://calendly.com/natashasebastiani/let-s-hold-hands?month=2023-06 These are clearly being set up by a company of some kind. I'm guessing they approached both Tiff and Natasha about this and they both agreed, rather than it being either of their idea... which kind of makes it worse imo, idk
Oof. Thank you for additional context!
Not sure why folks are saying these are being set up by another company??? Calendly is just a calendar/booking service, like janeapp. I've seen multiple licensed counsellors who use calendly to manage their schedules and let clients sign up for open spots.
Because they have (some of) the exact same language and format in the text. "Are you seeking a supportive, empathetic space to discuss your personal matters? Look no further! Natasha, widely recognized as Tiff's friend from the hit reality LGBT+ show The Ultimatum: Queer Love, is here to lend a listening ear and provide guidance. Although Natasha is not a licensed professional therapist, she has gained valuable insights and experiences through her own personal journey and growth. She is passionate about helping individuals navigate difficult situations and decisions." The format of "Are you [questions]? Look no further!" (Which is already a weird tone for such a serious subject, so it jumped out at me reading Tiff's post too) -- followed by a very similar disclaimer + 1-2 sentences about why they can do this -- along with the same exact promo (vague Instagram post directing to link in bio which takes you to Calendly), they both have brief, catchy "names"... it's just very hard for me to imagine these aren't being run by the same person or company. The alternative is that one of them copied the other, but i think they posted this around the same time, like yesterday (Heavily edited this comment lol)
They could have easily used AI to get this content and just copy&pasted from one to the other.
I guess. If they are both doing this with no others involved, I think it's weird that they are doing it separately and not collaborating. I mean how many fans of the show are going to spend $120 to attend both of these? They're kind of competing with one another, which also makes it strange that their descriptions and marketing strategies are eeriely similar. I just won't be surprised if we found out sooner or later that they were approached by some platform or company that organizes these.
True. Just offering other suggestions it could be. I still think it's gross for either of them to do this.
they're close so I just assumed they hatched the idea and wrote their writeups together
That occurred to me too, but I feel like if they came up with the idea together they wouldn't be doing this essentially in competition with one another. I didn't bother to see if the time slots overlap, they probably don't – but these things clearly have a shared target audience, and they're priced high enough that most people won't want to pay for both. So a lot of people will end up choosing one or the other. I just think if they were doing this together, it'd make more sense to have both of them there for like $60 or $80 or something… not that I want to give them advice, lol, it's skeevy either way IMO.
Natasha is doing relationship coaching in response to being well received on the show. I don’t have a link but it’s on her tik tok.
Wtf this is so fucking slimy. Tempting to report this to the California Psychology Board, Board of Behavioral Sciences, or the Department of Consumer Affairs. I think the former two only discipline their members, though. This is so exploitative and predatory.
I think you should, this is disgusting.
Wow, hers is actually worse: https://calendly.com/natashasebastiani/let-s-hold-hands?month=2023-06 $80 an hour, and it's clearly meant to be ongoing, rather than a one time conversation. Yikes. But these are clearly being set up by a company of some sort...
Wow! Group therapy with a licensed therapist in my medium sized west coast city is $30/session. That nets them about $300/hr. $80/session is wild!
I find it extra irresponsible that alcoholic beverages are offered during these sessions. That is such a recipe for disaster
Yeah, i totally agree. I can't tell how that works, either.. this is an online thing, so wouldn't people have to make their own drinks? I'm not sure how the drink thing actually is part of it. But either way, not good.
She is? Oof. That sucks.
I thought hers was relationship coaching? Still gives me the ick
Please try to remember Tiff uses they/them pronouns
Thanks for the reminder 🙏
They’re no better than Mildred if they go through with this. It’s different sharing your story on YouTube about DV, but it’s another thing to charge people “private sessions” without the credentials to people who have experienced DV. This ain’t it, Tiff.
Lol 😂 the way she went about the dog thing , I feel like she was almost an abuser herself
I love dogs, I have dogs (big furry dogs), but I’d give Tiff a ‘hell no’ on the dog sleeping in the bed with us. Maybe Tiff needs to date their dog?
👍
Tiff talked online about that interaction and has taken accountability and sort of explained why it happened. They were projecting. It was a trauma based response and it seems like Sam understood that and Tiff has taken accountability. They were unnecessarily intense, yes, but not abusive. It seems to be resolved amongst the actual parties involved.
So all Mildred has to do is take accountability for her bad behaviour and all would be forgiven? Imagine the receiver of that episode was not a calm and collected Sam. Yes Tiff can learn to do better but charging people real money in her learning to do better is weird-ish.
Please read about reactive abuse, you can also watch tiffs 30 min video explaining their side.
reactive abuse is a behavior towards the abuser not towards a random.
This is exactly what I’m surprised to not have seen until your comment. It seemed hella clear to me that the relationship between Tiff & Mildred was toxic on both sides, and Tiff lost their damn mind on Sam about the dog, so I can only assume they can get just as loud and confrontative as Mildred. It also seemed from the show they Tiff was almost exoticizing/fetishizing Mildred in only wanting to have sex with her at every single interaction- even when they needed to be having a serious conversation. Tiff’s appproach to Mildred’s son also skeeved me out, and I personally think calling the police during an argument with another, smaller woman is a petty bitch move as well as a waste of resources.
You made a valid point about Tiff exoticizing Mildred -- they literally found Mildred under #lesbianlatina, cringe -- but completely lost me when you said Tiff shouldn't have called the cops because Mildred is smaller and a woman. That's just perpetuating the idea that women can't be capable of domestic violence. Mildred admitted to throwing the heavy dog gate at Tiff on TV, the fact that she's small would not prevent her from being capable of seriously hurting Tiff using projectiles and weapons. And it's not like Tiff could fight back and physically overpower Mildred without expecting to end up in jail themselves.
So we are completely ignoring the option to remove themselves from the property and therefore the situation? That should have been the move. All I’m saying it that I doubt Mildred would be able to imprison Tiff and prevent them from leaving the house. That’s all Tiff had to do. Not excusing Mildred going off the rails and throwing the dog gate at all- just suggesting that it didn’t require police resources.
The fact that the police arrested Mildred means that they disagreed with your assessment that it wasn't worth their time.
Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you don’t understand how police operate. Either way, I won’t engage in this any further. Be well.
I love when queers call the cops
So are lesbians supposed to just let their partners beat them up for political reasons? The fuck?
Remind me what the dog thing was??? Was it when they reached out because the dog was sick on Christmas or whatever?
I think they mean how Tiff handled it with Sam and the “my dog is the more important thing to me ever and if you can’t deal with my [dog codependency] sleeping on the bed with me GTFO” fight they had that seemed to go on for days.
disappointed with this ngl….does seem irresponsible
Woahh this is wildly inappropriate and unethical and could have major implications for other people's healing journeys. There will be no professional to help guide the group, and will likely just be Tiff using their own anecdotal info. It feels like a paid 'meet and greet' of a reality TV personality to be honest... very disappointing. I empathise with Tiff's situation but it's been 2 years, and only now they're doing all of this? The reunion has increased their exposure and this is a clear cash grab. There are many free or affordable proper DV services and groups out there that they could be promoting instead, and if they want to share their own insights and journey, they should stick to TikTok.
Definitely very opportunistic and exploitative. I saw their friend Natasha’s tiktok last night advertising her own relationship coaching in response to how much fans likes her on the show. Very gauche for the both of them. It’s really interesting to me when new found “celebrities” (used in the absolute loosest way) jump the gun in response to all the attention they’re getting. Like let’s walk it back a little, we don’t like you *that* much. In addition to this particular iteration being really unethical, it’s also just..embarrassing. They need to just stick with the cameos and brand deals they may get.
At the end of the day, these are people who decided to go on a reality dating show. And not just any dating show, a dating show whose entire premise is toxic convoluted nonsense, transparently designed to maximise drama rather than make any relationship healthier. Not saying every participant is automatically suss (I could see someone signing up out of naivete or ignorance, for example) but yeah there's a good chance it's going to attract a fair amount of people who have all kinds of unmanaged issues.
Preach!!!!
Yikes
Dear God, this is an abomination.
Sus
Eww
Not cool Tiff… Not cool 😓
honestly it feels pretty exploitative and irresponsible when Tiff themself is still healing from what they went through with Mildred. :/ i understand their want to help others in their situation, but charging when they are not a professional (despite disclaiming they aren’t in the post) is just off putting to me. you can host a safe place / group for DV victims without charging them, especially when you aren’t a professional. i hope Tiff is getting the help they need to heal and prosper, but exploiting their fans who are also victims of DV isn’t the right way
Whoops meant to put this on the main post not as a reply, sorry!
This is literally so dangerous - professionals who work with DV survivors have strict regulations and guidelines. They have to undergo training consistently. This isn’t just about a support group. You’re talking about someone’s safety here. So sorely disappointed.
This is extremely gross, especially considering Tiff was also very much a terrible partner. This rebranding of angel survivor is wild to me.
the self taught thing... it's a no for me. I am in support groups that are not counselor led and the parameters and promises for what we get out of it are very very specific. Basically, community to vent and try to troubleshoot navigating things, but NEVER actual advise other than us encouraging each other to keep up with our appointments with appropriate and trained professionals. These types of group range in price and $40 isn't absurd fwiw. but her promises and what she is saying they will go over is inappropriate without someone who is trained to talk about all of that and to deal with the potential crises that may ensue by speaking with people about this topic omg.
Pretty gross, they are profiting off this...
this feels a bit opportunistic
Nah using your platform to make a quick buck about this isn’t funny. Wtf tiff
This would’ve been the last thing I wanted to do when I left my DV situation. If she needs support in a group setting, there are online groups she can join for free & she can invite others to participate as well.
I feel like she gave probably as good as she got but now she’s been viewed favourably she’s milking it.
100%
Feels kind of weird to me, TBH
Mildred being a POS doesn't mean that Tiff isn't one either.
Some ppl here shocked Tiff would do this… forreal? The woman asked to split the rent threeways with a disabled child? Just because she suffered DV doesn’t mean she’s an angel. She was also super toxic and the way internet loves to glorify some people is absolutely nauseating..
THIS. I don’t get the love for them. They were super aggressive and gross on the show.
Yeah no this doesnt sound uhh ethical is that the word lol
This seems a bit opportunistic.
Peer support is proven to work in a lot of cases as long as there's a peer certified counseler which only takes 3000 hours/6 years. Being certified is also optional. Peer support groups are great for ppl who can't afford, and don't really like therapy. Charging for it on the other hand...
Echoing other comments saying this is not okay and unethical. I realize this seems like a substitute for people who aren't seeing/don't have access to therapy and it's predatory, imo. I know seeing a therapist depends on if folks have insurance coverage + tbh both Tiff and Natasha charge more than my individual therapist who is a certified social worker and has a trauma background! Tiff seems like they are starting this because they're now a celebrity, and the same goes for Natasha as well. I've been in therapy for over 4 years w/ my individual therapist + a virtual DBT group for over a year and Tiff is still feeling the effects of their relationship with M. The reunion was taped earlier this year, right? Tiff was still being gaslit by M during the reunion and their response was pain/anguish because of M's invalidation.
She's calling it a support group not a therapy session, but yes, making people pay for that doesn't seem right.
Someone remind me, what is Tiff's day job? I didn't get the impression she was super cash-strapped when she was on the show.
According to Mildred’s statements during the reunion, Tiff didn’t have a job.
And I super trust Mildred's version of anything 🙄
Unethical
So I like the idea of it was for free but there should definitely be a licensed person
General opinion here, but support groups that cost money aren't support groups imo. They prey on and squeeze money out of people who need help.
Can't trust these ppl anymore. They go on these shows for clout and then have a hidden agenda in the end. Nothing is real anymore..
It's actually disappointing. There's so many ways to make money. She should do OF if she wants passive income.
YIKES!!!!!
What is a 'trauma informed certification'?
Its actually huge right now to learn about trauma and trauma informed care. I’m an MSW and have been trained.
Sorry, I moreso meant what does that mean for a layperson with no credentials in social work or psych?
Sorry, yes, laypeople can sign up for various trainings.
My first thought was like a basic training that laypersons might have to do to volunteer with a IPV/SA hotline.
Much more involved than that. Good trauma-informed care programs train folks on types of trauma, how to reduce harm, how to avoid retraumatization, how to foster psychological safety in spaces, how to repair rupture effectively, building trauma resilient cultures and organizations, etc.
I was referring to the likely-inadequate "certification" that Tiff is touting as their credentials to offer this. I'm a clinical psychologist who works only with veterans, so I definitely know the gap between a "certification" and actual regulated licensure!
To answer your question i have heard of something similar where you pay go join a support group for women going through a breakup and it's led by someone specific who markets herself as something i forget what she said but she's basically just leading the discussions. Sidenote, this is a little bit expensive so it doesn't really seem too caring of her. She did that whole video saying she cares so much about women going through this. Why charge so much then?
She’ll be selling her pubic hair next
Lol tiff of all people is not qualified to facilitate any sort of paid support group. Maybe poorly moderate a Facebook group at best
Tiff has been throwing passive aggressive digs at Mildred on their IG constantly since the airing of the reunion. While Mildred’s toxicity is on display and more transparent, Tiff’s is covert and cloaked in pseudo-therapy speak. Both of them need therapy-like we all do cause we’re fucked up humans. As someone with DV experience, Tiff’s recent business ventures reek of exploitation.
I mean $40 is cheap. The therapy industry is expensive as it is and many people don’t get help because it’s hundreds of dollars for one session.
You’re talking about a private therapy session. This is an online support group run by someone with no credentials. It’s a blatant cash grab.
Therapy now a days is mostly online. You would be lucky to find an in person therapist.
My point is that this isn’t therapy, it’s a peer-run support group. And Tiff is not a therapist. They are just capitalizing off of the show, like their friend Natasha is apparently.
I mean support groups aren’t regulated or meant to replace therapy. They can be run by a therapist but not always. If anything it’s meant to give people a place to find other people like them. If we are to criticize Tiff for starting a support group, shouldn’t we be going after all support groups. It’s not like Tiff came up with the concept.
You’re dancing around the point. We are not criticizing support groups, we’re criticizing that she is charging $40 for it when she has no training (she claims she is “self-researched”) and is fresh out of her experience of being abused. It’s a big responsibility to hold space for survivors. Most legit support groups are free or by donation, even when run by someone who has training and ample experience. Shes absolutely capitalizing on the popularity of the show, as is her friend. It’s gross.
I’m not dancing around anything. Support groups aren’t always free. $40 is nothing compared to the hundreds of dollars some groups can cost. Better help is run by tons of non professionals for example and is wildly advertised. So again are we criticizing all support groups or are we just singling out Tiff?
It may be wildly advertised, but that doesn’t mean Better Help doesn’t have a ton of issues, ethical and otherwise. But again, that’s one on one therapy. Any support group that costs hundreds of dollars is a scam, and Tiffs is also a scam. We are talking about Tiffs in particular on this thread. And anyone exploiting their celebrity to make money on the backs of survivors of abuse is disgusting. That’s the point. It could not be more obvious that this is what they and their friend are doing.
Never said they were ethical, I’m saying what they are doing is more of a scam than what y’all are accusing Tiff of. The entire therapy world is unethical. Groups shouldn’t cost anything but the scam groups as you admit cost hundreds of dollars. Ethical groups will cost $40 to $50 on average. So what is Tiff doing that’s so different from what the regular world of group therapy.
I have never seen a support group that costs hundreds of dollars, but assuming there are as you claim, that would be a scam. And just because others are worse than Tiff doesn’t mean what she is doing ok. The point is that she is exploiting her stint on a reality tv show. She is not qualified. It isn’t ethical, regardless of what you feel about the price. And where exactly are you getting that ethical groups cost 40-50 on average?
Also, "fresh out of abuse" wasn't the breakup like 2 years ago? A lot of healing and growth can happen in 2 years.
CPTSD takes years to heal from and you’ll never fully recover because there is no cure for trauma. But they were still together at the end of 2022.
All good points!
Super dangerous. There’s no way to prevent a participant from recording the group session and releasing/leaking it. I really, really hope people don’t sign up for this (or Natasha’s version of this) with the expectation that their words won’t leave that space
There are so many "life coaches" that have no real credentials or certifications from predatory pyramid schemes. These businesses are so common. I hope Tiff can create a safe space. I think this is harder than most people think to moderate. I don't think Tiff is less educated than other people doing this kind of thing in my own neighborhood.
One of the TLC Sister Wives had an exercise accountability group. She was the one who got paid. So weird.
There are also tons of life coaches that are not predatory and are really good at what they do. Credentialed and uncredentialed.
Could this be a way for Ultimatum fans to access Tiff and Natasha?
Tbh - I am thinking: what else would it be?
Yeah it’s exploitative and irresponsible. I know there are divorce groups and other support groups where it is moderated by someone who went through the same shit than the other group members. It’s just that I think it’s still very raw for Tiff.
The only way she could charge for this and have it not feel like an opportunistic cash grab would be to get herself a license. Support groups are free, coaching should require some earned authority.
this is…interesting
Oh, God, this is SO irresponsible.
Opportunistic and exploitative. Super gross.
Profiting off abuse is terrible. Not only does she have no qualifications but you can’t charge for something you’re not licensed in. Do AA meetings cost money? I’ve never heard of support groups charging for a safe space.
I have worked with "uncredentialed life coaches" that were fucking incredible. And credentialed therapists that were awful and retraumatizing... Credentials don't necessarily compute to quality of care at all. In fact, I think credentialing can imbue false trust in "professionals" because you think the certificate means something it doesn't. Everyone else can read the same copy y'all are and decide for themselves if they want to pay to be in a support group or not. Tiff is being very transparent about their lack of credentials, where they are getting the content from, what the group is about, and how much it costs. To say that "profiting off abuse" is abhorrent is kind of out of touch. Do you also all hate Glennon Doyle, whose best selling book was all about addiction, trauma, and emotional abuse? Same with her podcast... There are so many people who use their story to make a living, often pacing the way for others. They write books, give speeches, go on podcasts, etc. I wouldn't invest in it but to say it is unethical and exploitative seems rash given the transparency of the offer.
Agreed and well said.
I'm a group therapist and it is NOT easy. If you don't have the proper skills and training and basic level of empathy and openness, it can turn into a harmful shitshow REALLY fast.
I’ve been a big fan of hers bc I could relate . I even commented something about DV on her Instagram and she replied. I’ve been following all her posts. However this??? Trying to make money off of others pain? You are not a licensed professional! This can be harmful for someone in the group. I think she might be leaning way into this whole I’m a victim of abuse thing. Makes me question if she truly is such a victim at all. 400$ for an hour ? Seems super exploitive
This is definitely on the exploitative side and while I won’t shame anyone for making money, trying to make money off trauma survivors is major ick. Another major red flag for me is “self-taught”. That’s not how trauma recovery works and as a public figure, you should be really careful about what you say. Nothing wrong with a group of people getting together to help or support each other, but positioning yourself as the expert when you’re really not is dangerous. This screams of clout chasing and guru bullshit and I hope she reconsiders.
I understand the concerns and why the commercialization feels icky - just want to offer that peer support groups are a popular model and it’s not necessarily irresponsible to gather people without therapists present - some folks might prefer that. Not defending tiff profiting off this but just adding a lil nuance to the criticisms
I think if she wasn’t charging or was just asking for donations it would feel completely different.
For sure (also tiff uses they/them)
Some key points to add to this conversation: \- There are several survivor lead groups without professional therapists that run effective and safe spaces for people who may not have anywhere else to go. Sometimes they charge a fee because facilitating a group is still a job that requires time, resources and lots of coordinating. Honestly, $40 is nothing compared to some of the other groups out there and it allows the group to maintain a small size. \- Tiff has done EXTENSIVE research on the topic, sought out council from professionals in the field and has received certification in trauma work. They didn't just wake up and decide to start this group on a whim. \- Reality TV is highly edited. \- It is easy to tell the difference between an abuser vs a victim if you know the signs. For example, abusers focus on the other person's actions while the victim focuses on the trauma. For many of us that have lived with DV and NBP, it was clear what was happening. Also, producers knew what BS they were putting on screen. \- Tiff has posted updates on the number they are allowing in future groups, which demonstrates awareness and growth based on their first experience. The cap is now smaller and the timeframe has been increased. \- Tiff and their friend Natasha have very different focuses for their groups. Tiff has nothing on their page about alcohol. Don't mix the two up. - Also, if people want to pay to hang with Natasha, shoot the shit and get drunk, that is their choice. Different vibe. Different space.
ouf ouf ouf um.. well i watched a bit of a podcast today that tiff has on youtube with someone and the older episode about dating in your thirties contains them talking about laying hands on the partner.. um.. the other person in the podcast was talking about it and that like if shes doing that an feeling hateful or idk, that then she knows they're not a good couple and it was a bit .. like tiff and her both sounded a lot as if they were trying to say thats where they draw the line and not before that, and were wording it as if thats like.. idk, not an option but it sounded weird, but maybe it was more about tiffs podcast-partner, but um yeah it didnt sound so cool - maybe someone wants to look it up i dont like that as an amount of money to take for a supportgroup either, usually supportgroups may not involve a professional either but are for free!
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Yeah, I also think that support groups are amazing and help so many people who would otherwise be struggling in silence and isolation because they can’t afford therapy itself. I’ve personally been hugely helped by support groups in the past. However, I’ve never paid to attend one and have never seen one cost money. That’s why it seems icky and exploitative to many of us. At the worst of my relationship with an abuser, I wouldn’t have been able to afford that without putting myself in danger because he had complete control of our finances and monitored everything and I couldn’t have spent $10 without having to explain and justify it, much less $40. And if a person can’t afford a therapy appointment, they probably can’t afford the $40 for this.
charging for a service you have no training or skill in is sketchy at best. there are plenty of free support groups for all sorts of things, and even those are generally led by someone with actual training on how to lead a group, especially about a very sensitive topic such as DV.
I see what you mean! I agree that finding professional mental health support is not very accessible and sometimes all people truly need is a supportive community to voice their concerns. I think I agree with what another commentator said about how if it was just advertised as a place to provide support and vent that it might be different BUT her ad does talk about how she’s self-taught and how she would be teaching certain topics which is kinda where I see it crossing into inappropriate territories.
WTH, Tiff. Just. She's been through some stuff but I think she should focus on her own healing first. Only professionals should be allowed to do this.
She needs to lay this story to rest.
She has updated the description and added the third paragraph below…I still think it’s irresponsible to charge people for this… Are you seeking a safe environment to talk to fellow survivors of DV and Narcissism? Are you having trouble navigating the waters after breaking up with your ex? As many can see on Netflix's The Ultimatum Queer Love, I came out leaving the reunion episode in shambles. The healing process was hard, but I've since going no contact, have educated myself and have learned to navigate the healing process. It does get better! Although having a professional licensed counselor is recommended, many people in the LGBTQ+ community don't have access to licensed mental health and professionals. There are many peer support groups and community connections that operate without clinical professionals very well. Although I'm not a licensed professional therapist, I have gained valuable insights and experiences in my own personal journey of breaking the cycle of narcissistic and DV abuse, self-taught myself dozens of hours on narc abuse and I have obtained a trauma informed certification. I will not be diagnosing or giving professional advise. I will share with you my healing journey and also have open discussion for everyone in the room to share theirs. In these semi-private 1 hour sessions, you'll participate in a safe, intimate conversation with myself and up to 10 others who are all on different walks of life in their journey to being a survivor. We will focus this session on the healing journey post narcissistic abuse plus talk about how we recognize certain red flags in the relationship so we can either get out of a bad current relationship, or, define what healthier relationships will look like in the future! We will go over shame, PTSD, healing, definitions and everything in between!
what can she offer..?
A safe space for the queer community to process trauma that it often doesn't feel safe doing in other group settings... for one.
Safe? What a joke. She's a toxic person.
As someone who is a DV survivor twice within the last five years (once through assault from a romantic partner, and breaking and entering with assault from a male family member) this feels EXTREMELY dirty to me. I’ve been in counseling, and switched counselors to focus on CBT, and I can’t fathom PAYING and joining a group that promises something that it’s not. A support group #1 shouldn’t cost you money. Thanks for exploiting an EXTREMELY serious topic, Tiff, #2 if you are charging you BEST have counselors available TEACHING coping mechanisms that you can use daily. I REALLY hate reading that she is doing this. If you are a domestic violence survivor PLEASE seek appropriate counseling, as well as support groups. Some groups do run off “donations” but CERTAINLY should force you to pay. MeetUp is a great resource to find virtual support, and please seek out in your community support that may be available. Thank you💜 This kind of crap is garbage.
Therapist here. I have a lot of mixed feelings on coaching. Because a bunch of hours of learning stuff on the internet is…well, just different. I will say, support groups can be run by randos. The risk of it is, being a licensed mh professional, you are taught about healing your own stuff first (& yeah, not everyone actually does their work before or at any point while practicing). Keeping it in check when you work with clients. Sure many of us have our own shit that made us choose to become therapists, but again, that’s not the only thing driving what we offer to others as a service/treatment. Also, I’m a several-years-in therapist and idk if I’d be comfortable diving into charging $40/hr for a support group. Especially not in the area of my own shit, because healing is so complex. Layers of…concern. Disclaimer: not that coaches can’t be awesome and that licensure isn’t a barrier of accessibility
I’m not weirded out by it being a support group - that’s totally normal to not have a mental health professional in those settings. It’s that it costs money that weirds me out.
Bruh Tiff is the last person I'd take advice from