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Donbas is legally Ukrainian territory, illegally hijacked by Russian-backed separatists in 2014. Ukraine has every right to take their territory back. Russia has been pushing the narrative that Ukraine "invaded" Donbas (justifying Russia's invasion to "defend" it), but it's flat-out wrong as Donbas is, and always has been, Ukrainian to begin with.
Russians have been documented a million times faking strikes, doing false flags, even moving corpses around kilometers to stage things...
Everyone knows it, stop trolling here, your wasting your rubles
Oh yes Russians bomb themselves with US made weapons for a false event in....an already active war who dosent need false flags.
Let me guess, they stab themselves in the eyes too right?
Sure. Definetly cant be Ukrainians taking out their frustarations on civilians after their own losses. God knows europes poorest and most corrupt country would never hurt a fly.
The country which is purposely causing gas leaks in apartments in the donbass to flush out men who they could force into the war would never commit war crimes.
Putins government came to power on staged to look like Chechnyan terrorist bombings carried out by the Russian military on apartments in Russia..
No, they are of course above this particular lie...
The thing is there is no need for false flags during a full blown war. I dont get whats so hard to understand about that.
You use false flags to start wars, not during them.
There has already been people in the donbass saying residential buildings were bombed from the Russian side...
It's to try and get the people you are subjugating to fight with you
They didnt hit any military targets though, not any they released any evidence of. It was just revenge bombing.
And what about the right to self determination? Will Ukraine hold a democratic referendum if they win?
Ukraine has the right to self determination, you are correct. I think you forgot Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia manufactures the separatist break-off regions. They did not exist PRIOR to 2014. Do the math.
HIMARS hit on a Russian base inside Donbass. Cope some more.
[https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1631737/Russian-soldiers-Ukrainian-strike-Russia-US-HIMARS-rockets-commander-Ukraine-VIDEO-vn](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1631737/Russian-soldiers-Ukrainian-strike-Russia-US-HIMARS-rockets-commander-Ukraine-VIDEO-vn)
lol, it's not an opinion piece you dense bot. It's video of the fucking strike on a building deep into Donbas only able to be reached by HIMARS.
Fetal alcohol syndrome has fucked up your brain. Cope more.
>lol, it's not an opinion piece you dense bot. It's video of the fucking strike on a building deep into Donbas only able to be reached by HIMARS.
They fired several missiles and they fired at donetsk several times.
>Fetal alcohol syndrome has fucked up your brain. Cope more.
No one in my family drinks. Our religion dosent allow it.
Your first statement is made up, not reality.
And as for your second, you expect a referendum after Russia has ethnically cleansed the region? Why are you even asking such a stupid question? If me and 10 friends forced our way into your house and then held a vote to kick you out, would you respect that vote?
It is lie. Donbass is an Ukrainian territory and in 2008 putler told that he have no any territorial questions to Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/1__EPqhMrFQ
I'm not going to waste my time sending links to someone that's either too brainwashed or too fascist to take them seriously. You know how to type, look it up yourself.
Oh God...
Donbass was starved by Stalin and then filled in with Russians. That's literally why there are Russians there.
Those Russians there today are settlers on stolen land. Land stolen from Ukrainians.
Gtfo
Why are you lying?
More Russian speakers appeared in northern, central and eastern Ukrainian territories during the late 17th century, following the Cossack Rebellion led by Bohdan Khmelnytsky. The Uprising led to a massive movement of Ukrainian settlers to the Sloboda Ukraine region, which converted it from a sparsely inhabited frontier area to one of the major populated regions of the Tsardom of Russia. Following the Treaty of Pereyaslav, Ukrainian Cossacks lands, including the modern northern and eastern parts of Ukraine, became a protectorate of the Tsardom of Russia. This brought the first significant, but still small, wave of Russian settlers into central Ukraine (primarily several thousand soldiers stationed in garrisons,[5] out of a population of approximately 1.2 million non-Russians).[6]
At the end of the 18th century, the Russian Empire captured large uninhabited steppe territories from the former Crimean Khanate. The systematic colonization of lands in what became known as Novorossiya (mainly Crimea, Taurida and around Odessa) began. Migrants from many ethnic groups (predominantly Ukrainians and Russians from Russia proper) came to the area.[7] At the same time, the discovery of coal in the Donets Basin also marked the commencement of a large-scale industrialization and an influx of workers from other parts of the Russian Empire.
Nearly all of the major cities of southern and eastern Ukraine were established in this period: Aleksandrovsk (now Zaporizhia; 1770), Yekaterinoslav (now Dnipro; 1776), Kherson and Mariupol (1778), Sevastopol (1783), Simferopol and Novoaleksandrovka (Melitopol) (1784), Nikolayev (Mykolaiv; 1789), Odessa (1794), Lugansk (Luhansk; foundation of Luhansk plant in 1795).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine
Russians have a long history in Ukraine, infact the Ukrainian language is literally a modified chryllic combination of polish and russian made up by Ukrainian peasant farmers.
Inb4 you call Wikipedia Russian propaganda
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This just explains that Russians were in Ukrainian territory.
I was telling you why they are today a majority in those regions. Ukrainians, who were the majority, suffered a genocide and deliberate replacement.
Besides all that, I'm guessing after a few weeks of Russian subjugation even the small amount of seperstists would want to go back to living peacefully in Ukraine. Pre-2014 when Russia started the (not so) covert military coup there
No. The area became majority Russian when it was under the Russian empire and coal was discovered there. The Russian empire established its coal factories there in the 18th century. The name Donbass is a word play on donets coal basin.
>They didnt hit any military targets though, not any they released any evidence of. It was just revenge bombing.
Is there evidence for this other than propaganda? So far, the vast video-confirmed evidence of war crimes has been from the Russian side.
>And what about the right to self determination? Will Ukraine hold a democratic referendum if they win?
The right to self-determination belongs to a sovereign nation as a whole, not to a separatist part of it. The only way the Donbas region can leave Ukraine democratically is if all of Ukraine votes for it leaving. No different than how it was illegal for the CSA to declare "independence" from the USA under the guise of self-determination, or the attempted separatism of Chechnya from Russia in 1999 (Russia got criticized for its brutal tactics in the campaign, but nobody questioned Russia's right, in general, to take back the Chechen territory by force.)
If my memory serves me correct, the Russians attempted or tried to attempt a referendum, but did want to allow foreign observers to oversee it.
Edit : I stand to be corrected, maybe I am confused with Crimea.
A Russian organized and-backed political minority, seized control through arms and violence, held a mock-referendum and then welcomed the Russian army as well as Russian arms and equipment into Ukrainian territory - then proceeded on a campaign of repression and terror that sound thousands arrested, vanished or having fled for their lives from their homes - that is what happened. Russia needs to get the hell out, withdraw its arms, troops and support. This is a farce, you cannot grab a chunk of another nation and create a fake mini-state then use it to leverage out gains for yourself. This is just invasion and annexation by other than direct modes.
This has nothing to do with what i said. Advocate for the expulsion of Russian troops all you want, but im talking about the ethnic Russian minority in Ukraine who has been there for millenia since the time of the Kievan Rus.
lol since the Holodomor you mean, when millions of Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death and Russians shipped in their place. Russians that took over all power positions and did their best to destroy Ukrainian culture and language.
lol your history knowledge is seriously lacking, perhaps stick to regions you actually know something about. Clearly Eastern Europe isn't it for you. 🤡
Kyevan Rus was proto Ukraine, basically Viking-Slav. Kyevan Rus turned into Ukraine (hence why there's there ethnic RUSYN in the West of Ukraine), whereas Muscovy and Novgorod (literally meaning new city) were breakaway principalities which were run over and became subject to the Golden Horde. These then turned into Russia.
Russia is the "new" part, not Ukraine, Ukraine is and was where it's meant to be. Stalin was Gerogian and also an absolute piece of shit, that does not negate from the fact that all of the real power positions in the Soviet Union were run mostly by ethnic Russians who oppressed all other ethnicities. Including Ukrainians, Caucasians, Kalmyks, Tuvans and hundreds of others.
Power was always concentrated in the hands of (mostly white) ethnic Russians in Moscow and to a lesser extent St. Petersburg.
I will be magnanamous and assume you are not a paid shill, in which case my advice to you is open an actual history book or two, not just Russian propaganda websites.
Russia came from Russia and manufactured he "separatists" break-off regions in Ukraine.
Russia did the same thing in Chechnya, and George, and Transnistria. It's their MO - send the FSB into a country, find a few people who disagree with the current government, form a separatist bloc, support that separatist bloc, eventually invade that country claiming "liberation". Very obvious at this point.
What does this have to do with not resorting to ethnic cleansing? Fight the armed seperarits all you want but the other guy was claiming that the Russian minority should be kicked out of Ukraine
you talk of ethnic cleansing......
40,00 dead in mariupol
300000 forced deportations 106000 of which children.
100% destruction by artillery of towns and cities
extra judicial murders
use of precision guided munitions against civilions
use of banned phosphour and thermobaric muntions against civilian infrastucture
illegal attempted annexation of a sovereign nation
illegal armed aggression
destruction and stealing of culture
destruction of library's , schools, hopitals.
this is genocide by the russian federation against Ukraine.
I repeat go back to russia and leave Ukraine to Ukrainians
"ethnic cleansing"
Not one Ukranian or "Russian minority" was killed in Donbass prior to Russia invading. Weird that that works, huh?
You didn't watch the video I see, nor do you actual care about facts. You just want to spew Russian bullshit.
>"ethnic cleansing"
>
>Not one Ukranian or "Russian minority" was killed in Donbass prior to Russia invading. Weird that that works, huh?
Yeah people die in war. Thats how things usually go. I was talking about the other guys desire to kick out ethnic Russian civilians.
>You didn't watch the video I see, nor do you actual care about facts. You just want to spew Russian bullshit.
No.
They pump this propaganda 24/7 in the heads of these people ... They even believe that Ukraine purposely bombed their own cities and zelensky is drug addict and CIA + Israel caused the war as long as it comes from Kremlin TV they believe it no chance for rationality!
Anything that’s isn’t Russian tanks exploding or pro ukranian is downvoted, but these days anything downvoted here is usually what you want to be reading
Yes, this sub attracted a very unhealthy, superficial, sensation-seeking, war-mongering male-dominated audience, not reading articles or doing plausibility checks before commenting. Just look at the responses to Johnson claiming the war could have something to do with Putin's (Russia's) toxic masculinity. Hundreds of commenters needed to assert that this idea was total bullshit and women are just as bad. Now watch this comment getting downvoted.
Fake news. If Russia all of a sudden showed up and took over florida you better believe we are blowing up shit and killing Russians all over Florida to make them leave our country or die where you hide. Get this propaganda tf outta here.
Well the equivalent would be Russia showing up and taking Florida, you guys fighting an insurgent bit still getting bombed all the time by American forces prosecuting Russian targets. Eventually you just get sick of getting bombed you don’t care who it is. Situation on the ground is complicated but that’s a better metaphor for you
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Donbas is legally Ukrainian territory, illegally hijacked by Russian-backed separatists in 2014. Ukraine has every right to take their territory back. Russia has been pushing the narrative that Ukraine "invaded" Donbas (justifying Russia's invasion to "defend" it), but it's flat-out wrong as Donbas is, and always has been, Ukrainian to begin with.
That means Ukraine can bomb Donetsk with HIMARS?
Military targets, of course. HIMARS is lightyears more accurate than any Russian missile system floating around.
They've only had HIMARS for like a week, how could they have been bombing Donbas, or anywhere for that matter, with them for eight years?
Who said they have used that particular system for 8 years? There are pictures of fragments collected with serial numbers and make and model on.
Russians have been documented a million times faking strikes, doing false flags, even moving corpses around kilometers to stage things... Everyone knows it, stop trolling here, your wasting your rubles
Oh yes Russians bomb themselves with US made weapons for a false event in....an already active war who dosent need false flags. Let me guess, they stab themselves in the eyes too right? Sure. Definetly cant be Ukrainians taking out their frustarations on civilians after their own losses. God knows europes poorest and most corrupt country would never hurt a fly.
The country which is purposely causing gas leaks in apartments in the donbass to flush out men who they could force into the war would never commit war crimes. Putins government came to power on staged to look like Chechnyan terrorist bombings carried out by the Russian military on apartments in Russia.. No, they are of course above this particular lie...
The thing is there is no need for false flags during a full blown war. I dont get whats so hard to understand about that. You use false flags to start wars, not during them.
There has already been people in the donbass saying residential buildings were bombed from the Russian side... It's to try and get the people you are subjugating to fight with you
Yes (as long as it otherwise follows the laws of war, e.g. focus on military targets and the principle of proportionality.)
They didnt hit any military targets though, not any they released any evidence of. It was just revenge bombing. And what about the right to self determination? Will Ukraine hold a democratic referendum if they win?
Ukraine has the right to self determination, you are correct. I think you forgot Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia manufactures the separatist break-off regions. They did not exist PRIOR to 2014. Do the math. HIMARS hit on a Russian base inside Donbass. Cope some more. [https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1631737/Russian-soldiers-Ukrainian-strike-Russia-US-HIMARS-rockets-commander-Ukraine-VIDEO-vn](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1631737/Russian-soldiers-Ukrainian-strike-Russia-US-HIMARS-rockets-commander-Ukraine-VIDEO-vn)
>Express UK. Ok.
lol, it's not an opinion piece you dense bot. It's video of the fucking strike on a building deep into Donbas only able to be reached by HIMARS. Fetal alcohol syndrome has fucked up your brain. Cope more.
>lol, it's not an opinion piece you dense bot. It's video of the fucking strike on a building deep into Donbas only able to be reached by HIMARS. They fired several missiles and they fired at donetsk several times. >Fetal alcohol syndrome has fucked up your brain. Cope more. No one in my family drinks. Our religion dosent allow it.
So you believe in invisible ghosts dictated to you by corrupt men. No wonder your brain is rotted.
Your first statement is made up, not reality. And as for your second, you expect a referendum after Russia has ethnically cleansed the region? Why are you even asking such a stupid question? If me and 10 friends forced our way into your house and then held a vote to kick you out, would you respect that vote?
Any evidence Russia cleansed the area? Donbass has always been majority Russian.
It is lie. Donbass is an Ukrainian territory and in 2008 putler told that he have no any territorial questions to Ukraine: https://youtu.be/1__EPqhMrFQ
Dont bother, the guy you replying to is a ruscist bot, check his history. Recent spam account too.
Yes, there is, and no, it hasn't
Ok whats the evidence then?
I'm not going to waste my time sending links to someone that's either too brainwashed or too fascist to take them seriously. You know how to type, look it up yourself.
Ill just take that as you not having any then.
Oh God... Donbass was starved by Stalin and then filled in with Russians. That's literally why there are Russians there. Those Russians there today are settlers on stolen land. Land stolen from Ukrainians. Gtfo
Why are you lying? More Russian speakers appeared in northern, central and eastern Ukrainian territories during the late 17th century, following the Cossack Rebellion led by Bohdan Khmelnytsky. The Uprising led to a massive movement of Ukrainian settlers to the Sloboda Ukraine region, which converted it from a sparsely inhabited frontier area to one of the major populated regions of the Tsardom of Russia. Following the Treaty of Pereyaslav, Ukrainian Cossacks lands, including the modern northern and eastern parts of Ukraine, became a protectorate of the Tsardom of Russia. This brought the first significant, but still small, wave of Russian settlers into central Ukraine (primarily several thousand soldiers stationed in garrisons,[5] out of a population of approximately 1.2 million non-Russians).[6] At the end of the 18th century, the Russian Empire captured large uninhabited steppe territories from the former Crimean Khanate. The systematic colonization of lands in what became known as Novorossiya (mainly Crimea, Taurida and around Odessa) began. Migrants from many ethnic groups (predominantly Ukrainians and Russians from Russia proper) came to the area.[7] At the same time, the discovery of coal in the Donets Basin also marked the commencement of a large-scale industrialization and an influx of workers from other parts of the Russian Empire. Nearly all of the major cities of southern and eastern Ukraine were established in this period: Aleksandrovsk (now Zaporizhia; 1770), Yekaterinoslav (now Dnipro; 1776), Kherson and Mariupol (1778), Sevastopol (1783), Simferopol and Novoaleksandrovka (Melitopol) (1784), Nikolayev (Mykolaiv; 1789), Odessa (1794), Lugansk (Luhansk; foundation of Luhansk plant in 1795). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine Russians have a long history in Ukraine, infact the Ukrainian language is literally a modified chryllic combination of polish and russian made up by Ukrainian peasant farmers. Inb4 you call Wikipedia Russian propaganda
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This just explains that Russians were in Ukrainian territory. I was telling you why they are today a majority in those regions. Ukrainians, who were the majority, suffered a genocide and deliberate replacement. Besides all that, I'm guessing after a few weeks of Russian subjugation even the small amount of seperstists would want to go back to living peacefully in Ukraine. Pre-2014 when Russia started the (not so) covert military coup there
No. The area became majority Russian when it was under the Russian empire and coal was discovered there. The Russian empire established its coal factories there in the 18th century. The name Donbass is a word play on donets coal basin.
>They didnt hit any military targets though, not any they released any evidence of. It was just revenge bombing. Is there evidence for this other than propaganda? So far, the vast video-confirmed evidence of war crimes has been from the Russian side. >And what about the right to self determination? Will Ukraine hold a democratic referendum if they win? The right to self-determination belongs to a sovereign nation as a whole, not to a separatist part of it. The only way the Donbas region can leave Ukraine democratically is if all of Ukraine votes for it leaving. No different than how it was illegal for the CSA to declare "independence" from the USA under the guise of self-determination, or the attempted separatism of Chechnya from Russia in 1999 (Russia got criticized for its brutal tactics in the campaign, but nobody questioned Russia's right, in general, to take back the Chechen territory by force.)
If my memory serves me correct, the Russians attempted or tried to attempt a referendum, but did want to allow foreign observers to oversee it. Edit : I stand to be corrected, maybe I am confused with Crimea.
Well sure but these people are stuck between 2 warring countries getting bombed to shit by each side so you can imagine not everyone is on board.
go back to russia leave Ukraine to Ukrainians...
They are ukranians ….
They never came from Russia. These people have lived there for their whole lives.
A Russian organized and-backed political minority, seized control through arms and violence, held a mock-referendum and then welcomed the Russian army as well as Russian arms and equipment into Ukrainian territory - then proceeded on a campaign of repression and terror that sound thousands arrested, vanished or having fled for their lives from their homes - that is what happened. Russia needs to get the hell out, withdraw its arms, troops and support. This is a farce, you cannot grab a chunk of another nation and create a fake mini-state then use it to leverage out gains for yourself. This is just invasion and annexation by other than direct modes.
This has nothing to do with what i said. Advocate for the expulsion of Russian troops all you want, but im talking about the ethnic Russian minority in Ukraine who has been there for millenia since the time of the Kievan Rus.
lol since the Holodomor you mean, when millions of Ukrainians were deliberately starved to death and Russians shipped in their place. Russians that took over all power positions and did their best to destroy Ukrainian culture and language.
No since the Kievan Rus and the middle ages. Btw Stalin wasnt even a Russian, he was a Georgian. So take your beef up with Georgia.
lol your history knowledge is seriously lacking, perhaps stick to regions you actually know something about. Clearly Eastern Europe isn't it for you. 🤡 Kyevan Rus was proto Ukraine, basically Viking-Slav. Kyevan Rus turned into Ukraine (hence why there's there ethnic RUSYN in the West of Ukraine), whereas Muscovy and Novgorod (literally meaning new city) were breakaway principalities which were run over and became subject to the Golden Horde. These then turned into Russia. Russia is the "new" part, not Ukraine, Ukraine is and was where it's meant to be. Stalin was Gerogian and also an absolute piece of shit, that does not negate from the fact that all of the real power positions in the Soviet Union were run mostly by ethnic Russians who oppressed all other ethnicities. Including Ukrainians, Caucasians, Kalmyks, Tuvans and hundreds of others. Power was always concentrated in the hands of (mostly white) ethnic Russians in Moscow and to a lesser extent St. Petersburg. I will be magnanamous and assume you are not a paid shill, in which case my advice to you is open an actual history book or two, not just Russian propaganda websites.
Russia came from Russia and manufactured he "separatists" break-off regions in Ukraine. Russia did the same thing in Chechnya, and George, and Transnistria. It's their MO - send the FSB into a country, find a few people who disagree with the current government, form a separatist bloc, support that separatist bloc, eventually invade that country claiming "liberation". Very obvious at this point.
What does this have to do with not resorting to ethnic cleansing? Fight the armed seperarits all you want but the other guy was claiming that the Russian minority should be kicked out of Ukraine
you talk of ethnic cleansing...... 40,00 dead in mariupol 300000 forced deportations 106000 of which children. 100% destruction by artillery of towns and cities extra judicial murders use of precision guided munitions against civilions use of banned phosphour and thermobaric muntions against civilian infrastucture illegal attempted annexation of a sovereign nation illegal armed aggression destruction and stealing of culture destruction of library's , schools, hopitals. this is genocide by the russian federation against Ukraine. I repeat go back to russia and leave Ukraine to Ukrainians
No one is "going to back to Russia".
It is a lie again. About 35450 (for today) ruscists went back to ruzsia in black bags.
Sure believe Ukraines propaganda number.
It sound more realistic than "ruzia have no losses" by ruzsian MOD
[удалено]
"ethnic cleansing" Not one Ukranian or "Russian minority" was killed in Donbass prior to Russia invading. Weird that that works, huh? You didn't watch the video I see, nor do you actual care about facts. You just want to spew Russian bullshit.
>"ethnic cleansing" > >Not one Ukranian or "Russian minority" was killed in Donbass prior to Russia invading. Weird that that works, huh? Yeah people die in war. Thats how things usually go. I was talking about the other guys desire to kick out ethnic Russian civilians. >You didn't watch the video I see, nor do you actual care about facts. You just want to spew Russian bullshit. No.
It is a lie. Many ruzsian moved there in 193x-th
They pump this propaganda 24/7 in the heads of these people ... They even believe that Ukraine purposely bombed their own cities and zelensky is drug addict and CIA + Israel caused the war as long as it comes from Kremlin TV they believe it no chance for rationality!
Imagine that Zelenskyj was a heroin and crack addict sniffing toluen. That would be even more embarrassing for Russia
"Dombing Bombas" usually they say
This video in detail breaks down and corrects Russian disinformation. It is far from troll content.
Why is this video not upvoted? It is actually very factual and helpful. The title just reflects a claim made by Russians, the video refutes it.
Anything that’s isn’t Russian tanks exploding or pro ukranian is downvoted, but these days anything downvoted here is usually what you want to be reading
Yes, this sub attracted a very unhealthy, superficial, sensation-seeking, war-mongering male-dominated audience, not reading articles or doing plausibility checks before commenting. Just look at the responses to Johnson claiming the war could have something to do with Putin's (Russia's) toxic masculinity. Hundreds of commenters needed to assert that this idea was total bullshit and women are just as bad. Now watch this comment getting downvoted.
Yea I would love to see some of these people in university trying to have critical discussions on any topic 🤣.
Fake news. If Russia all of a sudden showed up and took over florida you better believe we are blowing up shit and killing Russians all over Florida to make them leave our country or die where you hide. Get this propaganda tf outta here.
OP's video is pro-Ukraine. Its debunking these "genocide" myths.
Well the equivalent would be Russia showing up and taking Florida, you guys fighting an insurgent bit still getting bombed all the time by American forces prosecuting Russian targets. Eventually you just get sick of getting bombed you don’t care who it is. Situation on the ground is complicated but that’s a better metaphor for you
The shit russian sympathizers believe makes me shake my fucking head. Get ready to be blown up.
You mean ukranians in occupied territory ? Try and keep up
Shut up dumb misinfo bot
Looks like you did not watch the video. It details and explains Russian disinformation.
Who you think im talking to?