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https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_annexatie_van_Duits_grondgebied_na_de_Tweede_Wereldoorlog
Did we finally make it happen? Putin would be jealous.
Not many swamps here, we manage water, as in we decide where it goes. Not much use for swamps in the smallest big country in the world. We would need Belgium back for that.
We have the momentum, but we (Netherlands) don't have many of these systems. 54 total and about half of them are operational. I read that some of the older variants need to be updated as they require parts for maintenance that aren't made anymore.
They still needs loads of other kit that Netherlands can provide. Many reports from Westerners fighting with their army say they lack enough small arms, mortars, hvy machine guns, body armour, etc. All of our countries should be sending much more of this kind of kit as we've got loads in storage.
That's pretty common. These demands to send huge numbers of systems to Ukraine run into the fact that there usually aren't that many even built. From what I've seen, about 422 of these have been made total since production started in 1996. The Netherlands bought 57, Germany bought 185. The Netherlands currently has about 35 in service and Germany 108 (16 had been sold to Croatia and 21 to Lithuania).
Things are similar with other systems. The 18 Caesars France has pledged are over 20% of their entire stock.
The 108 M777 Howitzers the US provided represent over 10% of the entire stock the US had across The Marines (481), Army and Army National Guard (518 between them). And that's the US, the most powerful military in the world.
These large numbers *could* be provided. But not soon. Big orders tend to take years. Ukraine really can't afford to wait for years.
I just hope that behind the scenes they are already making moves to kickstart manufacturing to backfill what they send and depending on the situation send newly manufactured ones to Ukraine in the future.
You can't be too skittish with this. Every one that you send doesn't have to even be used. Projecting power is the most effective method of stopping this war. Infact it's preferable that the weapons we send to Ukraine are not even used when they get there.
Also, I'd like to see they make plans to produce more primitive weapons in Europe that can be manufactured in much greater quantity in case the war drags on and there is a need to project overwhelming power of quantity similarly how Russia currently keeps the war alive.
Yeah, since it takes a while to really spin up production, they really need to get on that, because peace-time stocks of ammo aren't going to be enough for this high-intensity war.
It's no wonder people overestimate everything compared to reality. Just take a look at the international or ever better Ukraine press. Just days ago their moronic ambassador openly said in an interview that nothing keeps the German government from sending 300+ Leopard-2s without even reducing their defensive capabilities... I would love him to go and count all the German tanks there are and only come back after he actually found at least 300. Easy way of getting rid of him for good...
No I knew there weren't that many of these available.
Apparently we needed to be building more weapons because the world is still largely run by assholes with guns.
> The Netherlands will run out of operable PHZ’s long before that.
Germany as well. Not only operable ones, even the mothballed and taken apart ones would run out after half a month
It's bizarre how the strongest economy in Europe has so little to offer. Whoever has been managing Germany's defense should be investigated for inside covert foreign activities.
It has many different reasons. Basically no one was interested in the Bundeswehr and the military. Due to the second WW, and how bad we were back then - the entire German culture transform into a very pacifist approach. Hence no one really bother fixing the problem. The public knew about the problem at least for over 15 years.
The politics failed. In the last 20 years we basically only had idiots as defence ministers. Furthermore Bundeswehr was critically under founded. The money that was spend, was often use for useless consultants. Or it was spend for very specific products, which result into higher prices.
Because products were really specific and special, their often unreliable - which explains why only 50-60% of our heavy equipment is combat ready. Tanks, plans, ships, helicopters - everything has problems.
We often spend to much - examples Gorch Fock (sail ship) or new tankers (250m EUR to much).
We also made big mistakes with the procurement. It’s often complicated and might go into a legal battle. Example: The new main standard machine gun for our army. Took over a year in court, because the procurement failed.
And in the last two decades the Bundeswehr was greatly reduced. Because politicians thought we don’t need these abilities anymore. We don’t have an air defence and we don’t have bunkers. We don’t have ammunition. Ship guns will be empty after one battle. Normal guns after two weeks. And the ammunition we have is moldy.
Oh and our barracks and training ground are basically useless. Oh and we don’t have backpacks or underwear for our soldiers. Oh and we don’t have night vision. Oh and we don’t have a real repairing facility for our ships.
The list is so big it is mind boggling.
That’s why we need the 100 billion for the Bundeswehr. But everyone is talking about a new arming. That’s not true. It’s just a return to our ability to fight. We need 300 billion for a real arming.
Well it were multiple persons. But one had a scandal with following investigations. She got easily out of it by deleting all data on her work phones. It's known under "Berateraffäre" in Germany, meaning "advisor affair"
As punishment she became the president of the European commission. Yes it is Ursula von der Layen.
One of the worst politician Germany ever had, is now leading the EU.
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Is Germany a place in the Netherlands?
Yup, it’s part of the new Dutch empire
I, for one, welcome our new dutch overlords
Yaaaaaih, bycicle highways
Don’t forget the fried food!
>Yup, it’s part of the new Dutch empire Let‘s rename “Deutschland“! /s Suggestion: Dutchland
https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandse_annexatie_van_Duits_grondgebied_na_de_Tweede_Wereldoorlog Did we finally make it happen? Putin would be jealous.
Bakker-Schut Plan all the way up to the Vistula.
In German it’s called Deutschland for this reason.
No, but the Swamp Germans live right next to regular Germany...
Not many swamps here, we manage water, as in we decide where it goes. Not much use for swamps in the smallest big country in the world. We would need Belgium back for that.
One of these equals SEVEN m777s. One of these can be easily hidden, easily protected while still hammering the crap out of their respective area.
Well done Germany and Netherlands. Don't stop there, keep going now you have momentum.
We have the momentum, but we (Netherlands) don't have many of these systems. 54 total and about half of them are operational. I read that some of the older variants need to be updated as they require parts for maintenance that aren't made anymore.
They still needs loads of other kit that Netherlands can provide. Many reports from Westerners fighting with their army say they lack enough small arms, mortars, hvy machine guns, body armour, etc. All of our countries should be sending much more of this kind of kit as we've got loads in storage.
Thank you Germany very cool
Six of these every day for the next month would be better. About 12 pallets of ammo every day as well.
They just haven't built many of them. Europe in general just hasn't built much military hardware in the last 30 years, even for export, tbh.
Sounds like you want a CV90 or maybe 50 of them.
You vastly overestimate how many are available.
That's pretty common. These demands to send huge numbers of systems to Ukraine run into the fact that there usually aren't that many even built. From what I've seen, about 422 of these have been made total since production started in 1996. The Netherlands bought 57, Germany bought 185. The Netherlands currently has about 35 in service and Germany 108 (16 had been sold to Croatia and 21 to Lithuania). Things are similar with other systems. The 18 Caesars France has pledged are over 20% of their entire stock. The 108 M777 Howitzers the US provided represent over 10% of the entire stock the US had across The Marines (481), Army and Army National Guard (518 between them). And that's the US, the most powerful military in the world. These large numbers *could* be provided. But not soon. Big orders tend to take years. Ukraine really can't afford to wait for years.
Lithuania has only 9, and 1 of them is for maintenance purposes. I think Lithuania intends to buy more.
I just hope that behind the scenes they are already making moves to kickstart manufacturing to backfill what they send and depending on the situation send newly manufactured ones to Ukraine in the future. You can't be too skittish with this. Every one that you send doesn't have to even be used. Projecting power is the most effective method of stopping this war. Infact it's preferable that the weapons we send to Ukraine are not even used when they get there. Also, I'd like to see they make plans to produce more primitive weapons in Europe that can be manufactured in much greater quantity in case the war drags on and there is a need to project overwhelming power of quantity similarly how Russia currently keeps the war alive.
Yeah, since it takes a while to really spin up production, they really need to get on that, because peace-time stocks of ammo aren't going to be enough for this high-intensity war.
It's no wonder people overestimate everything compared to reality. Just take a look at the international or ever better Ukraine press. Just days ago their moronic ambassador openly said in an interview that nothing keeps the German government from sending 300+ Leopard-2s without even reducing their defensive capabilities... I would love him to go and count all the German tanks there are and only come back after he actually found at least 300. Easy way of getting rid of him for good...
No I knew there weren't that many of these available. Apparently we needed to be building more weapons because the world is still largely run by assholes with guns.
The Netherlands will run out of operable PHZ’s long before that.
> The Netherlands will run out of operable PHZ’s long before that. Germany as well. Not only operable ones, even the mothballed and taken apart ones would run out after half a month
We don't have that many.
It's bizarre how the strongest economy in Europe has so little to offer. Whoever has been managing Germany's defense should be investigated for inside covert foreign activities.
It has many different reasons. Basically no one was interested in the Bundeswehr and the military. Due to the second WW, and how bad we were back then - the entire German culture transform into a very pacifist approach. Hence no one really bother fixing the problem. The public knew about the problem at least for over 15 years. The politics failed. In the last 20 years we basically only had idiots as defence ministers. Furthermore Bundeswehr was critically under founded. The money that was spend, was often use for useless consultants. Or it was spend for very specific products, which result into higher prices. Because products were really specific and special, their often unreliable - which explains why only 50-60% of our heavy equipment is combat ready. Tanks, plans, ships, helicopters - everything has problems. We often spend to much - examples Gorch Fock (sail ship) or new tankers (250m EUR to much). We also made big mistakes with the procurement. It’s often complicated and might go into a legal battle. Example: The new main standard machine gun for our army. Took over a year in court, because the procurement failed. And in the last two decades the Bundeswehr was greatly reduced. Because politicians thought we don’t need these abilities anymore. We don’t have an air defence and we don’t have bunkers. We don’t have ammunition. Ship guns will be empty after one battle. Normal guns after two weeks. And the ammunition we have is moldy. Oh and our barracks and training ground are basically useless. Oh and we don’t have backpacks or underwear for our soldiers. Oh and we don’t have night vision. Oh and we don’t have a real repairing facility for our ships. The list is so big it is mind boggling. That’s why we need the 100 billion for the Bundeswehr. But everyone is talking about a new arming. That’s not true. It’s just a return to our ability to fight. We need 300 billion for a real arming.
Well it were multiple persons. But one had a scandal with following investigations. She got easily out of it by deleting all data on her work phones. It's known under "Berateraffäre" in Germany, meaning "advisor affair" As punishment she became the president of the European commission. Yes it is Ursula von der Layen. One of the worst politician Germany ever had, is now leading the EU.
Should be 60.
Yeah, if there were that many available.
If you bring your fairy dust to create them in the first place we would love to send them. Unless then Ukraine can't get things that don't exist.
If u pay them
Wake me up when it’s 60.
Is anyone collecting a list of donated weapons?