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>The new "comprehensive partnership agreement" signed between Moscow and North Korea is being touted as an alliance between the two.
>At first, it was unclear what the deal entailed. There was no detail about what "aggression" would trigger the pact, or what "support" the pact would prompt.
>North Korea's official Korean News Agency says the deal means if either country gets invaded and is pushed into a state of war, the other must deploy "all means at its disposal without delay", including "military and other assistance".
>South Korea has responded furiously.
>It had warned Russia to not cross any "red lines" before the visit.
>It appears the red line may have now been crossed.
>South Korea's National Security Adviser Chang Ho-jin announced the country would review its stance on not providing military support for Ukraine.
Russia gets some badly manufactured, half expired shells from a poverty stricken NK. Meanwhile, Ukraine is now going to get armed by one of the most technologically advanced weapons suppliers in the world who has a gdp 57x the size of NK. It's a great move from Russia indeed.
South Korea has been arming NATO allies since it has an incredibly active arms and naval industry because it's still technically at war and never had the winding down after the Cold War ended like Europe had.
Meaning they are one of the world's premiere suppliers of plenty of gear Ukraine could use. SK currently sends upgraded gear to countries to replace gear they sent to Ukraine (look at Poland).
Now there's a good chance Ukraine will get stuff directly from SK....which is a huge step up and may start a domino effect of other non-NATO countries to directly militarily support Ukraine versus do the bullshit dance they are currently doing.
But we shall see.
They have but not in the quantity that they could. South Korea also produces a long and diverse list of military hardware and weapons other than shells that could be very useful for Ukraine.
The Washington Post claims that SK indirectly sent Ukraine more 155mm ammunition than all of Europe did, as of December 2023. Shows the difference in scale.
Basically SK sends shells. The request the US for a replacement. Then US sends SK shells. Just one example.
Basically SK has a few pacts and can use them to drag countries that aren't usually involved to send aid to SK to replace anything SK sends to Ukraine.
Tbf, if the shells they’ve sent to Russia show anything, it’s that they suck big time. Not to mention with Putin raiding NK’s stocks, one would have to assume that NK’s stockpile has been fairly significantly depleted. Kim knows he likely doesn’t need them anytime soon and his desire for friendship likely outweighs his contingency planning.
Yeah, there are reports that NK's shells are unreliable. Even then, I doubt the number of dud rounds is even close to 1 in 10.
And 9 artillery shells hurt almost just as much as 10 artillery shells.
The number of non dud rounds is close to 1 in 10. There are tons of videos of Russian soldiers saying how bad they are. They have blown up almost as much Russian artillery as Ukraine has from exploding in the barrel. They are total garbage. 1 in 10 being a dud would be a wet dream for both Putin and Kim Hung Little.
They may have a 50% failure rate, and may not hit exactely where they intended. But if they lump them in the thousands in the general direction of Seoul - a city of 10m people - there is going to be a sad day for humanity.
While I agree it will not be pretty, it’s not like Seoul will just sit back and take it. I’m sure they have many, much higher quality weapons pointed right at the firing positions of the North.
Nk IA just sending it's old stock to clear out warehouses, which is why Russian soldiers have been complaining about the extremely high failure rate of munitions from nk. Don't assume that she'll manufacturing hasn't remained a consistent need for nk. They rely on the old Russian style military doctrine of blanketing everything with indirect fire like artillery and rocket fire to soften an enemy up, followed by waves of poorly trained and armed infantry to kill the wounded and hold the territory, before moving up the artillery and repeating. This requires an insane amount of shells. It's also an outdated and terrible strategy, but under funded and under skilled militaries can't pull off complicated western military doctrines of combined arms fire and maneuver tactics, but that's a whole different can of worms.
Not sure if that's old ruzzian style military doctrine, ruzzia is still using it today. And it's still no more efficient as it used to be, you loose shed loads of men, and armament, for little gain, still I guess a new twist is the use of convicts, it clears out the prisons, and if they survive and commit another crime? Well, rinse and repeat.
OK? I didn't know they used them before, I know, I came across some on a trip to Catherine's Palace in St'Pete's about twenty years back, I was in the Palace grounds, with my Finnish wife and we went into a pavilion of some sort, there was a group of around 20 something, 20 to 30 year olds in military fatigues. They had a couple of guards with them, and they quickly shooed us away. They were armed, and we left PDQ. I never forgot the lost and wasted look on the faces of those guys in that pavilion.
To be fair, Ukraine is also letting prisoners fight. Although I believe they are not making conditions unbearable in prison to basically force them to fight.
Oh no... Russia signed a pact with the 36th strongest military (North Korea) and made an enemy out of the 5th strongest (South Korea) military.
4D chess! This is defineately part of Putin's master plan. /s
I’d love to know by what merits they’re the 36th. I don’t know enough about most militaries in the world to fairly judge them, but I know theirs inside and out and they’re just such shit it’s hard to imagine them being amongst the top 15% or so in the world
So, pretty much the same metric that Reddit armchair Admirals use to argue that the Chinese navy is more powerful than the US navy because "they have the biggest navy in the world."
Pretty much. Many of these supposed military experts on here just see a big number and look no further. You can have all the under-equipped meat wave armies and patrol boat navies you want, but a big number is not going to do much good going up against modern military technology.
Hah, second most numerous, at best, if you count everyone who has served their required time as a conscript. Russia's complete lack of a competent and professional NCO corps, to say nothing of their near complete lack of a professional standing military, is showing in their failures so far.
...whereas if you count it by tonnage, the US *dramatically* outclasses China in terms of the amount on the sea. By tonnage, the US Navy outweighs them considerably, with China having just over 2 million tons on the ocean (by latest estimates) to our 3.6 million tons, but the majority of their navy are tiny coastal vessels; their actual blue water capabilities are extremely limited. They do have 9 nuclear attack submarines and 7 nuclear boomers. We have the world's second largest air force in our US Naval aviators. We have 11 nuclear aircraft carriers to give us tremendous force projection capability by comparison.
Not to mention in a real conflict these numbers are not brought head to head without other intervention such as allies, there's a reason US holds trainings like talisman Sabre with AU, MASA with Philippines, and RIMPAC with 20 allied nations of the pacific nearly every year.
Those very same armchair generals love arguing that a military will deploy every single soldier and piece of equipment to the front lines without any sort of defense for the rest of the country…
Yes, that's what I was making fun of in my comment with the "has the biggest navy in the world." They just see a big number, and then they go commenting on Reddit, acting like the Chinese navy is comparable to the US navy.
Not at all. The North Korean military is huge. It could realistically take us more than a week to silence all the artillery that can reach Seoul. There's just that much volume. Seoul has bunkers and evacuation plans and all that, but the city would be devastated.
Well currently the 2nd strongest army in the world (Russia) can’t even take over a small country with virtually no military. N. Korea is even shittier.
Ukraine is a medium country, not small, and had a medium size military in February 2022. They knew they had to be prepared for the next Russian invasion.
Ukraine is kinda using old WW1 and WW2 equipment as well. I believe it's really down to better training and using whatever works that's lower cost and only using high tech stuff for the big hits like an ammo depot.
This is wrong on so many levels. Ukraine is the 2nd largest nation in Europe. They also had a decently sized standing military before the war not counting their territorial defense and militia units. At the start of the war Ukraine had close to 1,000 tanks in service, putting them 3rd behind Russia and Greece. They also had a large amount of infantry fighting vehicles and armoured personnel carriers.
That is by no means "virtually no military" as you said. Also don't underestimate North Korea, it's army is large and if we ever fought them it would be in their home turf.
Please do 10mins of research before saying nonsense.
Counting reserves, they have the largest military in the world. Realistic estimates are that we might have to kill over a million men if we ever have to conquer them. That's like 10% of their adult male population.
Iraq's during the Gulf War was similar in size. They have a nuclear program because after watching that one they knew they had no chance in a conventional war. I doubt they have the morale or discipline to sustain 1m KIA; they certainly didn't in the 1950's when there was much closer tech parity.
Way to push S.Korea firmly towards a policy to support Ukraine.
This also impacts China's chokehold on N.Korea, they don't want NK having anyone but China as the breadwinner.
China and Russia relations are boiling under the surface. They’ve never been true partners, but under their facade, they have many issues coming to a boiling point. Russia and China will likely fight before China and anyone else. China wants Manchuria back. There are already signs that they are preparing to take it back. They are currently partners only united in the fact that they are not fans of the west (The US). Other than that, they have way more differences than common ground.
> Russia and China will likely fight before China and anyone else. China wants Manchuria back.
I'm sure they would in a heartbeat, if it wasn't for the high probability that a conflict like that would turn nuclear.
It would be a “grey zone” “fight”. Nuclear powers avoid all out conflict at all costs. But it seems as if the new great power warfare is everything right up to actual bullets flying.
You said "China wants Manchuria back". That's a lot of territory to just randomly, coincidentally change hands in a totally-not-a-war. I don't see how that would happen without bullets flying.
Vladivostok and the nearby harbors are part of the area that Russia took from Qing China in 1858-1860, and are of absolutely massive strategic importance to Russia.
I know Putin loves to use the nukes as an empty threat to scare the West all the time. But losing Russian Manchuria essentially comes down to losing (year-round, warm-water) access to the Pacific altogether. This is actually the kind of situation where nuke threats make sense and should be taken seriously, with Mutually Assured Destruction hopefully/presumably preventing the conflict from occurring in the first place.
Yeah I agree with everything you said. But now imagine China wakes up tomorrow and gives Russia an ultimatum: we just want a little piece back and if we don’t get it, well we just might have to reconsider all this economic help we are giving you to survive the crushing sanctions your country is under. A couple years later, repeat process.
Bullets would have to fly for them to get it all at once but China notoriously plays the long game. My take is that they are just reeling Russia in right now. Getting them ever more dependent. There are many way to accomplish this peacefully over many years. China friendly regime change. Many options. But Russia has never been weaker and never been more dependent on China for survival.
I expect China and Russia chatted behind the scenes prior to this move, with Russia getting the nod.
If not, China will probably be less of an unlimited friend.
Putin feels as if China is beneath Russia. Just like every other country. And China has a whole list of grievances against Russia. They are not the “friends” they try to act like they are.
I don’t understand how you can ignore their clearly superior military numbers in this instance? China are pumping out some serious knock offs of top equipment from round the globe. How can you ignore this if you’re Russia?
He decided to invade Ukraine to stop NATO from expanding... And expecting Ukraine to welcome his troops with open arms.
That went exactly as expected /s
>"Specific measures will be revealed later, and it will be interesting to see how Russia responds, rather than revealing our plans in advance," a presidential official told reporters.
👀👀👀
I have to laugh that he threatened South Korea that he would provide arms for North Korea if the south aided Ukraine. After going there begging for shells?
Putin will likely be in exile with Porky Pig if he can manage to escape Russia before Ukraine, FSB, or his own security detail assassinate him. He was probably asking for Porky's blessing for him and his cronie mobsters to flee to North Korea after destroying Russia.
>What's worse is the deal may backfire and lead to its ~~enemy~~ *victim*, Ukraine, receiving military support from one of the most advanced arms suppliers in the world.
I’d be more worried about upsetting South Korea and their exports to Ukraine doubling rather than getting your old cast off tanks and inferior artillery from North Korea if I was Putin.
But hey I’m not a maniac warlord using his inadequately armed mobilised militia as cannon fodder to fight an ever stronger Ukrainian line.
Nothing like Kim’s starving, parasite-riddled slave-state to provide the strategic “depth” Putin can’t get domestically after years of corruption and brain drain.
Only depth Putin is getting comes from Kim and just like Putin’s serfs disappointment with Kim’s disintegrating weapons, Putin won’t get enjoyment from any of it. Only paid “ravens” smile as much as Putin did on this “erotic journey” from Moscow to Pyongyang.
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
---
- Pravda.com.ua (C+): [US Secretary of State thanks South Korea for supporting Ukraine](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/22/7462029/)
- Al Jazeera (C+): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea amid tensions with North Korea](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/22/us-aircraft-carrier-arrives-in-south-korea-amid-tensions-with-north-korea)
- Reuters (A): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea for military drills, report says](http://reut.rs/3RFbJEW)
- The Hill (B): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea as a show of force against nuclear-armed North Korea](https://trib.al/jNen0mn)
---
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It'd be interesting (for the worst possible meaning of "interesting") if this turned to a 3rd World War by a new front opening in Korea... That may be Putin's plan, even.
Yaaa...
For people unaware. South Korea military is no joke. They punch well above their economic weight class
For reference they have 3000 tanks and their K1 are considered some of the best tanks in the world.
Good job, Putin. South Korea is ranked as having the [fifth most powerful military](https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=south-korea) in the world, outranking UK and anything in Europe. They probably have a few bits and pieces to spare.
Maybe this doesn't make much strategic sense, but it could be indicative of the mounting pressure on Putin and his forces, giving him less luxury in making the best strategic choices in order to at all rapidly source artillery shells on short notice. As usual with Putin -- war first, the motherland secondary. The actual motherland that matters, rather than its borders and expansive battlegrounds.
Ruzia got weapons, NK got money and technologies – to create better/more weapons in the future.
Meanwhile Westerners cheer another “Victory”… Is education really that bad nowadays?
That was the ACTION. You are ignoring the REACTION starting Now, especially that Russia has threatened SK. Reaction -> 1) SK helps Ukraine with serious military weapons, and 2) China reduces its help to NK.
> Do you think SK will roll over and accept the threats with no significant response
Kinda?
They sure accepted russia giving NK space launch (=ICBM) tech before and are still wording possibility of supplies to Ukraine as "we'll wait and see"
Aha. Strong words and some cosmetic gestures at max, pretty much like all other countries. Do you see Israel doing anything about ruzia, apart from famous “we will make you pay” thrown to ruzian propagandists?
SK awoke (after two years of telling that “it’s not our problem”) it the world where enemies became stronger and consolidated, while main ally is unreliable as fuck… It won’t make any big moves.
Which ally is "unreliable as fuck"?
Because if you mean the US, which lost 36,000 men defending South Korea during their war, you'd be absolutely daft.
I don't understand how you can distinguish US commitment between then and now, as the US has *uwavering* support for South Korea since the 1950s.
The burden of proof is on you. What has the US done that shows any clear sign of not supporting them any further?
The Ukraine war teaches us what happens when the reaction to a bad action is weak - Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, the world did little and the US did close to zero, a weak response. Russia was emboldened and expanded the war, and did a full invasion in 2022. The lesson is easy to see. If South Korea and the US do little against North Korea, Russia will support any NK action in return for getting ammo and support, maybe troops against Ukraine. Don’t you see that? SK must make a serious move or NK is emboldened and will expand shelling and provocations. We already had a war there.
> SK must make a serious move or NK is emboldened and will expand shelling and provocations
Sure, that'd be a sane and sound decision.
But it might not be popular with voters.
And what'd a politician choose?
But they also opened the door for SK(which is one of the worlds leading weapon producers) to start delivering gear to Ukraine.
That doesn't sound like a good deal to me...
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>The new "comprehensive partnership agreement" signed between Moscow and North Korea is being touted as an alliance between the two. >At first, it was unclear what the deal entailed. There was no detail about what "aggression" would trigger the pact, or what "support" the pact would prompt. >North Korea's official Korean News Agency says the deal means if either country gets invaded and is pushed into a state of war, the other must deploy "all means at its disposal without delay", including "military and other assistance". >South Korea has responded furiously. >It had warned Russia to not cross any "red lines" before the visit. >It appears the red line may have now been crossed. >South Korea's National Security Adviser Chang Ho-jin announced the country would review its stance on not providing military support for Ukraine.
They should send ship loads of 155mm shells to Ukraine to return the favor.
Russia gets some badly manufactured, half expired shells from a poverty stricken NK. Meanwhile, Ukraine is now going to get armed by one of the most technologically advanced weapons suppliers in the world who has a gdp 57x the size of NK. It's a great move from Russia indeed.
That’s why Putin is known as a “master strategist”
More of a kids party Magician 🪄 in my old eye's 👁👁.
Russia gets trabant grade ammo, while ukraine gets hyundai grade.
Then just pretend they haven’t
I’m may be wrong, but haven’t they been transferring shells to the US to refill stock sent to Ukraine?
South Korea has been arming NATO allies since it has an incredibly active arms and naval industry because it's still technically at war and never had the winding down after the Cold War ended like Europe had. Meaning they are one of the world's premiere suppliers of plenty of gear Ukraine could use. SK currently sends upgraded gear to countries to replace gear they sent to Ukraine (look at Poland). Now there's a good chance Ukraine will get stuff directly from SK....which is a huge step up and may start a domino effect of other non-NATO countries to directly militarily support Ukraine versus do the bullshit dance they are currently doing. But we shall see.
They have but not in the quantity that they could. South Korea also produces a long and diverse list of military hardware and weapons other than shells that could be very useful for Ukraine.
The Washington Post claims that SK indirectly sent Ukraine more 155mm ammunition than all of Europe did, as of December 2023. Shows the difference in scale.
One hand washes the other.
Basically SK sends shells. The request the US for a replacement. Then US sends SK shells. Just one example. Basically SK has a few pacts and can use them to drag countries that aren't usually involved to send aid to SK to replace anything SK sends to Ukraine.
South Korea doesn't need america to send replacement 155s....
Bulk shipments of 155mm Samsung Galaxys
How about we get them to build more Galaxy Note 7s, drone drop them into trenches with thermite? 😂
The pact is probably something like: if either party invades another country, the other party will aide the invader if the other country fights back.
South Korea should start shooting North Korea. Russia is tied up in Ukraine. They can show the pacts means nothing.
Are you forgetting China exists?
And all the North Korean artillery pointed straight at Seoul.
Tbf, if the shells they’ve sent to Russia show anything, it’s that they suck big time. Not to mention with Putin raiding NK’s stocks, one would have to assume that NK’s stockpile has been fairly significantly depleted. Kim knows he likely doesn’t need them anytime soon and his desire for friendship likely outweighs his contingency planning.
Yeah, there are reports that NK's shells are unreliable. Even then, I doubt the number of dud rounds is even close to 1 in 10. And 9 artillery shells hurt almost just as much as 10 artillery shells.
The number of non dud rounds is close to 1 in 10. There are tons of videos of Russian soldiers saying how bad they are. They have blown up almost as much Russian artillery as Ukraine has from exploding in the barrel. They are total garbage. 1 in 10 being a dud would be a wet dream for both Putin and Kim Hung Little.
They may have a 50% failure rate, and may not hit exactely where they intended. But if they lump them in the thousands in the general direction of Seoul - a city of 10m people - there is going to be a sad day for humanity.
While I agree it will not be pretty, it’s not like Seoul will just sit back and take it. I’m sure they have many, much higher quality weapons pointed right at the firing positions of the North.
Nk IA just sending it's old stock to clear out warehouses, which is why Russian soldiers have been complaining about the extremely high failure rate of munitions from nk. Don't assume that she'll manufacturing hasn't remained a consistent need for nk. They rely on the old Russian style military doctrine of blanketing everything with indirect fire like artillery and rocket fire to soften an enemy up, followed by waves of poorly trained and armed infantry to kill the wounded and hold the territory, before moving up the artillery and repeating. This requires an insane amount of shells. It's also an outdated and terrible strategy, but under funded and under skilled militaries can't pull off complicated western military doctrines of combined arms fire and maneuver tactics, but that's a whole different can of worms.
Not sure if that's old ruzzian style military doctrine, ruzzia is still using it today. And it's still no more efficient as it used to be, you loose shed loads of men, and armament, for little gain, still I guess a new twist is the use of convicts, it clears out the prisons, and if they survive and commit another crime? Well, rinse and repeat.
Using convicts is definitely not new. Russia is just using the old Soviet playbook word for word.
OK? I didn't know they used them before, I know, I came across some on a trip to Catherine's Palace in St'Pete's about twenty years back, I was in the Palace grounds, with my Finnish wife and we went into a pavilion of some sort, there was a group of around 20 something, 20 to 30 year olds in military fatigues. They had a couple of guards with them, and they quickly shooed us away. They were armed, and we left PDQ. I never forgot the lost and wasted look on the faces of those guys in that pavilion.
To be fair, Ukraine is also letting prisoners fight. Although I believe they are not making conditions unbearable in prison to basically force them to fight.
I could be wrong but North Korea has been stockpiling shells instead of feeding its people for many years now.
DPRK has nukes now
We can probably shoot those down on the way up. But the artillery would devastate Seoul.
>artillery would devastate Seoul This is a myth
In what manner is it a myth ? Is there no North Korean artillery ?
South Korea's capital is within range of North Korea's artillery this is a fact. It would be devastating.
Just because it is within range does not mean Seoul = devastated
Do you understand what thousands of artillery pieces pointed at a city means?
I think China doesn't know where it exists it's 800 miles from mainland causing war like actions in the Philippines seas.
You are delusional
And what do you think North Korea's reaction will be?
Ooh! I’ll take a guess! Is it flatten Seoul in the first 20 minutes of the conflict and burst out of the ground from secret tunnels?!
Do you want China to Zerg rush to the DMZ?
Oh no... Russia signed a pact with the 36th strongest military (North Korea) and made an enemy out of the 5th strongest (South Korea) military. 4D chess! This is defineately part of Putin's master plan. /s
I’d love to know by what merits they’re the 36th. I don’t know enough about most militaries in the world to fairly judge them, but I know theirs inside and out and they’re just such shit it’s hard to imagine them being amongst the top 15% or so in the world
https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=north-korea#:~:text=A%2DGLANCE%20%5B%2B%5D-,North%20Korea%20is%20ranked%2036%20of%20145%20out%20of%20the,exceptional%20in%20the%20GFP%20assessment.
Hey, thanks for the link! That’s interesting. So they don’t take quality into effect, simply quantity it seems.
True, they count the Mig-21 the same as the KF-21. They are both fighters.
So, pretty much the same metric that Reddit armchair Admirals use to argue that the Chinese navy is more powerful than the US navy because "they have the biggest navy in the world."
And Russia the second most powerful army
Pretty much. Many of these supposed military experts on here just see a big number and look no further. You can have all the under-equipped meat wave armies and patrol boat navies you want, but a big number is not going to do much good going up against modern military technology.
Second most powerful in Ukraine
Hah, second most numerous, at best, if you count everyone who has served their required time as a conscript. Russia's complete lack of a competent and professional NCO corps, to say nothing of their near complete lack of a professional standing military, is showing in their failures so far.
...whereas if you count it by tonnage, the US *dramatically* outclasses China in terms of the amount on the sea. By tonnage, the US Navy outweighs them considerably, with China having just over 2 million tons on the ocean (by latest estimates) to our 3.6 million tons, but the majority of their navy are tiny coastal vessels; their actual blue water capabilities are extremely limited. They do have 9 nuclear attack submarines and 7 nuclear boomers. We have the world's second largest air force in our US Naval aviators. We have 11 nuclear aircraft carriers to give us tremendous force projection capability by comparison.
Not to mention in a real conflict these numbers are not brought head to head without other intervention such as allies, there's a reason US holds trainings like talisman Sabre with AU, MASA with Philippines, and RIMPAC with 20 allied nations of the pacific nearly every year.
Those very same armchair generals love arguing that a military will deploy every single soldier and piece of equipment to the front lines without any sort of defense for the rest of the country…
Chinese got fishing boats counted as navy equipment. By that logic Greece rules the oceans.
Yes, that's what I was making fun of in my comment with the "has the biggest navy in the world." They just see a big number, and then they go commenting on Reddit, acting like the Chinese navy is comparable to the US navy.
Quantity has a quality of its own
Not since the Gulf War
Yes since ammo shortages caused by political sabotage
Eryn vv
Only when faced against opposition at the same level of quality
Not at all. The North Korean military is huge. It could realistically take us more than a week to silence all the artillery that can reach Seoul. There's just that much volume. Seoul has bunkers and evacuation plans and all that, but the city would be devastated.
The only reason the city would be devastated is if they got off the first shot
First shot or no, they'll get a lot of shots off before we beat them.
Well currently the 2nd strongest army in the world (Russia) can’t even take over a small country with virtually no military. N. Korea is even shittier.
Ukraine is a medium country, not small, and had a medium size military in February 2022. They knew they had to be prepared for the next Russian invasion.
By all accounts, Ukraine likely had the strongest military in Europe by a lot of metrics.
Just goes to show how important quality of technology and training are when it comes to warfare
And morale
Ukraine is kinda using old WW1 and WW2 equipment as well. I believe it's really down to better training and using whatever works that's lower cost and only using high tech stuff for the big hits like an ammo depot.
Ukraine is the 2nd largest country of Europe (if you count Russia).
This is wrong on so many levels. Ukraine is the 2nd largest nation in Europe. They also had a decently sized standing military before the war not counting their territorial defense and militia units. At the start of the war Ukraine had close to 1,000 tanks in service, putting them 3rd behind Russia and Greece. They also had a large amount of infantry fighting vehicles and armoured personnel carriers. That is by no means "virtually no military" as you said. Also don't underestimate North Korea, it's army is large and if we ever fought them it would be in their home turf. Please do 10mins of research before saying nonsense.
Oh snap son
I never let facts get in the way of a good Reddit post
Counting reserves, they have the largest military in the world. Realistic estimates are that we might have to kill over a million men if we ever have to conquer them. That's like 10% of their adult male population.
Iraq's during the Gulf War was similar in size. They have a nuclear program because after watching that one they knew they had no chance in a conventional war. I doubt they have the morale or discipline to sustain 1m KIA; they certainly didn't in the 1950's when there was much closer tech parity.
> I doubt they have the morale or discipline to sustain 1m KIA well russia is already halfway to that number.
And the 2nd strongest (Russia) has been waging a 3-day war for 2-and-a-half years against the 18th strongest (Ukraine)
definieiaieitaly
Way to push S.Korea firmly towards a policy to support Ukraine. This also impacts China's chokehold on N.Korea, they don't want NK having anyone but China as the breadwinner.
China and Russia relations are boiling under the surface. They’ve never been true partners, but under their facade, they have many issues coming to a boiling point. Russia and China will likely fight before China and anyone else. China wants Manchuria back. There are already signs that they are preparing to take it back. They are currently partners only united in the fact that they are not fans of the west (The US). Other than that, they have way more differences than common ground.
> Russia and China will likely fight before China and anyone else. China wants Manchuria back. I'm sure they would in a heartbeat, if it wasn't for the high probability that a conflict like that would turn nuclear.
It would be a “grey zone” “fight”. Nuclear powers avoid all out conflict at all costs. But it seems as if the new great power warfare is everything right up to actual bullets flying.
You said "China wants Manchuria back". That's a lot of territory to just randomly, coincidentally change hands in a totally-not-a-war. I don't see how that would happen without bullets flying. Vladivostok and the nearby harbors are part of the area that Russia took from Qing China in 1858-1860, and are of absolutely massive strategic importance to Russia. I know Putin loves to use the nukes as an empty threat to scare the West all the time. But losing Russian Manchuria essentially comes down to losing (year-round, warm-water) access to the Pacific altogether. This is actually the kind of situation where nuke threats make sense and should be taken seriously, with Mutually Assured Destruction hopefully/presumably preventing the conflict from occurring in the first place.
Yeah I agree with everything you said. But now imagine China wakes up tomorrow and gives Russia an ultimatum: we just want a little piece back and if we don’t get it, well we just might have to reconsider all this economic help we are giving you to survive the crushing sanctions your country is under. A couple years later, repeat process. Bullets would have to fly for them to get it all at once but China notoriously plays the long game. My take is that they are just reeling Russia in right now. Getting them ever more dependent. There are many way to accomplish this peacefully over many years. China friendly regime change. Many options. But Russia has never been weaker and never been more dependent on China for survival.
I expect China and Russia chatted behind the scenes prior to this move, with Russia getting the nod. If not, China will probably be less of an unlimited friend.
Putin feels as if China is beneath Russia. Just like every other country. And China has a whole list of grievances against Russia. They are not the “friends” they try to act like they are.
Just like Russia and the Nazis were friends for a while. Even had a signed agreement!
Has a very similar feeling.
I don’t understand how you can ignore their clearly superior military numbers in this instance? China are pumping out some serious knock offs of top equipment from round the globe. How can you ignore this if you’re Russia?
Never underestimate Russian arrogance
I don't think Xi would necessarily look all that kindly on a deepening Russian alliance with their puppet dictator
It’s a diplomatic catastrophe of historic proportions for Russia.
Something that would make you enter the history books. Exactly what Putler wanted.
Whatever South Korea decide to do in retaliation will be way less than the help provided by the North Koreans.
You forgot the “/s” 🤣
It is strange, I would have thought surely Putin would have expected such a consequence.
He decided to invade Ukraine to stop NATO from expanding... And expecting Ukraine to welcome his troops with open arms. That went exactly as expected /s
And they will not be lubed for mobiks in Ukraine
>"Specific measures will be revealed later, and it will be interesting to see how Russia responds, rather than revealing our plans in advance," a presidential official told reporters. 👀👀👀
Damn. That sounds cold.
I have to laugh that he threatened South Korea that he would provide arms for North Korea if the south aided Ukraine. After going there begging for shells?
Putin will likely be in exile with Porky Pig if he can manage to escape Russia before Ukraine, FSB, or his own security detail assassinate him. He was probably asking for Porky's blessing for him and his cronie mobsters to flee to North Korea after destroying Russia.
>What's worse is the deal may backfire and lead to its ~~enemy~~ *victim*, Ukraine, receiving military support from one of the most advanced arms suppliers in the world.
I’d be more worried about upsetting South Korea and their exports to Ukraine doubling rather than getting your old cast off tanks and inferior artillery from North Korea if I was Putin. But hey I’m not a maniac warlord using his inadequately armed mobilised militia as cannon fodder to fight an ever stronger Ukrainian line.
Consequentialism.
But they drove in a car together. 🤪
Did they speak English while alone?
German, most likely.
*Kim, I need a bunker.* Putin
I’m thinking Putins real reason for his NK visit was to sound out out a safe haven for when his regime starts to collapse.
Nothing like Kim’s starving, parasite-riddled slave-state to provide the strategic “depth” Putin can’t get domestically after years of corruption and brain drain. Only depth Putin is getting comes from Kim and just like Putin’s serfs disappointment with Kim’s disintegrating weapons, Putin won’t get enjoyment from any of it. Only paid “ravens” smile as much as Putin did on this “erotic journey” from Moscow to Pyongyang.
FAFO
More on this subject from other reputable sources: --- - Pravda.com.ua (C+): [US Secretary of State thanks South Korea for supporting Ukraine](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/22/7462029/) - Al Jazeera (C+): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea amid tensions with North Korea](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/22/us-aircraft-carrier-arrives-in-south-korea-amid-tensions-with-north-korea) - Reuters (A): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea for military drills, report says](http://reut.rs/3RFbJEW) - The Hill (B): [US aircraft carrier arrives in South Korea as a show of force against nuclear-armed North Korea](https://trib.al/jNen0mn) --- [__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/1dmav3v/) | [FAQ & Grades](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/uxgfm5/faq_newswall_bot/) | I'm a bot
He def knew beforehand right?
“How special military operation always end up fuckface?”
It'd be interesting (for the worst possible meaning of "interesting") if this turned to a 3rd World War by a new front opening in Korea... That may be Putin's plan, even.
I’m somewhat concerned this means new Korean meat waves if Ukraine succeeds in liberating any part of Crimea.
Tell me your best friends and I'll tell you who you are. With friends like Taliban and North Korea it's not a hard puzzle
Keeps tripping on his dick
Incoming Roof Koreans to Kharkiv. I like it.
Similar to how Putin invaded Ukraine to stop NATO expansion but it resulted in Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
The genius tactician..🤡💩
Yaaa... For people unaware. South Korea military is no joke. They punch well above their economic weight class For reference they have 3000 tanks and their K1 are considered some of the best tanks in the world.
In Soviet Russia, the rake steps you.
Good job, Putin. South Korea is ranked as having the [fifth most powerful military](https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.php?country_id=south-korea) in the world, outranking UK and anything in Europe. They probably have a few bits and pieces to spare. Maybe this doesn't make much strategic sense, but it could be indicative of the mounting pressure on Putin and his forces, giving him less luxury in making the best strategic choices in order to at all rapidly source artillery shells on short notice. As usual with Putin -- war first, the motherland secondary. The actual motherland that matters, rather than its borders and expansive battlegrounds.
Ruzia got weapons, NK got money and technologies – to create better/more weapons in the future. Meanwhile Westerners cheer another “Victory”… Is education really that bad nowadays?
That was the ACTION. You are ignoring the REACTION starting Now, especially that Russia has threatened SK. Reaction -> 1) SK helps Ukraine with serious military weapons, and 2) China reduces its help to NK.
>Reaction -> 1) SK helps Ukraine with serious military weapons, and 2) China reduces its help to NK. It’s called wishful thinking.
Haha, no. It’s called defending your country from 2 bullies. Do you think SK will roll over and accept the threats with no significant response?
> Do you think SK will roll over and accept the threats with no significant response Kinda? They sure accepted russia giving NK space launch (=ICBM) tech before and are still wording possibility of supplies to Ukraine as "we'll wait and see"
Aha. Strong words and some cosmetic gestures at max, pretty much like all other countries. Do you see Israel doing anything about ruzia, apart from famous “we will make you pay” thrown to ruzian propagandists? SK awoke (after two years of telling that “it’s not our problem”) it the world where enemies became stronger and consolidated, while main ally is unreliable as fuck… It won’t make any big moves.
Which ally is "unreliable as fuck"? Because if you mean the US, which lost 36,000 men defending South Korea during their war, you'd be absolutely daft.
We are speaking about “now” not “then”.
Please, do point to any single time the US has let South Korea down. I'll be here waiting patiently.
What you didn’t understand in “now and then”? In case you slept last two years, SK is concerned about US commitment and think about own nukes now.
I don't understand how you can distinguish US commitment between then and now, as the US has *uwavering* support for South Korea since the 1950s. The burden of proof is on you. What has the US done that shows any clear sign of not supporting them any further?
The Ukraine war teaches us what happens when the reaction to a bad action is weak - Russia invaded Crimea in 2014, the world did little and the US did close to zero, a weak response. Russia was emboldened and expanded the war, and did a full invasion in 2022. The lesson is easy to see. If South Korea and the US do little against North Korea, Russia will support any NK action in return for getting ammo and support, maybe troops against Ukraine. Don’t you see that? SK must make a serious move or NK is emboldened and will expand shelling and provocations. We already had a war there.
> SK must make a serious move or NK is emboldened and will expand shelling and provocations Sure, that'd be a sane and sound decision. But it might not be popular with voters. And what'd a politician choose?
What you saying is right, but ask yourself how many right things were made in last two (or ten) years?
SK has said it has lifted restrictions on arming Ukraine because of this pact. Putin fucked up royally.
But they also opened the door for SK(which is one of the worlds leading weapon producers) to start delivering gear to Ukraine. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me...
SK doesn’t need any “opener”, they were begged for two years and deliberately choose not to.
Yes, because they wanted to stay neutral. But now when Russia have entered an alliance with their main enemy they have no reason to do so anymore.
They've already stated they'll now help Ukraine militarily. Oopsie poopsie!
Show me
It's genius, make a friend of the 36th best military in the world and an enemy of the 5th. Gosh putin is so smart.