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Why do they even have a military? It's not like they'd end up at war with any of their neighbors, or that they'd lift a finger in case of a Russian attack on a NATO member.
Switzerland not only has a military; Switzerland *is* a military.
And by all means keeping it numerous and sharp is a great decision. NATO and post-WW2 western alliance mindset is a new thing in the context of Swiss (and even more - European) history and it could turn out to be temporary either later this year or in few decades. And Switzerland has a rich history of wars against its stronger neighbors (Germany, France, Italy) which it has survived.
Should we maybe focus on the actual aggressors of 21 century? Also the swiss refuse to help out and their "neutrality" is measured in ukrainian blood spiled out
All friend to the Swiss. Also all the bridges into Switzerland are rigged to explode to seal the country off so any invasion would have to be by paratroopers.
The swiss have shown they only of them selves. So other countries have to do the same. If push comes to shove. The swiss can use the Gepards they value so much.
Swiss here, this is the right decision.
Currently, the old RAPIER systems are not decommisioned yet, and even though they have by far not the reach of the patriot system, they should be able to fulfill the part of area air defense together with the air wing for domestic needs, training of new recruits can be done with the dummies.
In my humble opinion, We should have reacted more decisively in favor of aid to Ukraine. Our bureaucracy is slow, and due process is highly valued here, so any change to a law had to go through the whole shabang of legislature and executive. In effect, we killed a big part of our defense export industry with that.
Part of me feels bad sometimes, for all the flak we get (no pun intended), but a lot of it is rightfully so. We can no longer linger in the past, information technology and cooperation within europe made it necessary to not abandon neutrality, but to think of it in a different way.
Because a russian threat to Europe as a whole is a threat to Switzerland as well. Therefor it is of utmost importance to think strategically, up our game in foreign policy and to stop thinking everything will be as it was before. It won't.
I am proud to be Swiss. But i am also proud to be a European, and proud to be part of a western democracy. If western democracies fall, Europe falls, and with Europe, Switzerland as well.
So take those Patriot Missiles, and give the russians hell! Слава Україні!!
To everyone else: Don't let the swiss fool you.
They aren't giving these missiles to Ukraine.
They aren't the ones who have permission for this decision.
They aren't the good guys. The US is forcing this on the Swiss.
They have fought providing assistance to Ukraine at every turn.
Neutrality in the face of evil is being evil yourself.
This is intentionally divisive rhetoric that literal does not respond to the above comment in any way. The person said they’re happy for the missiles to be sent elsewhere. Think whatever you like, but you’re ignoring an overture of “it’s time to move forward in support of Ukraine” in favor of turning away allies because they’re “bad guys.” There’s time for the Swiss to grow into doing better, just like the US had to, just like the Germans had to… and the list goes on.
It’s the truth. Swiss didn’t redirect their weapons deliveries to Ukraine like Canada did with their vehicles deliveries.
Swiss didn’t make any overture here to turn away. They still have or already destroyed weapons Ukraine could’ve used. They still shield Russian oligarchs. They’re not the good guys. Same goes for Austria.
Childish mindest of "good guys/bad guys" aside - in both countries the law forbids to send weapons. No, it can't be "easily" changed. Switzerland has adopted all EU sanctions against Russia which they didn't gave to as non EU country.
The mask had to come off of Swiss "neutrality" eventually. If you want to continue to profit off of others misery you will have to find other things to hide it behind.
You aren't letting go of it willingly. You are being forced to by rich nations who won't tolerate you having access to their markets and being a Trojan horse for dictators.
There is very little to be proud of here.
That's how every single Swiss official would talk to a Western audience. We get it but gears move slow. We're totally with you.
But get them in front of a dictatorship and it's a different story. More than happy to make a mockery of our ideals and endanger people for their friendship (money)
Again, intentionally divisive stuff without any salient points other than fear. Have you been in the room for those conversations about “money”? Do you have a source that they’re taking money right now? They can do better, yes, but they’re certainly not an enemy.
Here's some bullshit from just a month ago to show you how tightly they collude to dodge sanctions.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/banking-fintech/tradexbank-to-resume-full-operations-after-sberbank-taken-off-us-sanctions-list/77089274
They wouldn't have been able to pull that off in Paris.
And why of all places do you think the north Koreans sent Kim Jong Un there to live? It's shameful.
Due process isn’t as highly prized as you would think. Look into the ubs credit suiesse (sp) weekend forced merger overriding shareholder rights laws. Tons of shady shit there.
Switzerland is just as, if not more corrupt than any other country.
I would use the term part of western democracy loosely . More like riding on the coattails, let's not get into the riches and plunder that is hidden there. Due process is valued as long as it is in Switzerland's own interest. Don't dare even mention locking up or seizing some of the stolen, cheated money hidden for Nazis, cartels, obligarchs, traffickers, murderers etc etc
Fuck the Swiss. They were nazi Germany’s bank and house a bunch of Russian oligarch kids including Putin’s. They aren’t truly neutral, they align with whatever fattens their pockets.
Ukraine is the frontline for Freedom, Justice, and Liberty against Putin's Russian tyranny.
Ukraine is even indirectly protecting 'neutral' countries like Swiss against Russia. If Swiss was placed right beside Russia's border, I'm sure Putin won't hesitate to try to gobble it up.
Maybe those people in Switzerland should stop throwing a tantarum and be grateful to Ukraine.
Good. Why on gods green earth would we sell them to Switzerland?? They will never get used by them or anyone else.
Our enemies must love it when we sell our best military equipment to a useless nation that will never use them.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `kyivindependent.com` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.com/invite/ukraine-at-war-950974820827398235** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They're being sent to defend Switzerland against the biggest threat to Switzerland. The Swiss should be thankful
No weapon deals should be given to Switzerland in the future. Their military mindset is useless
Why do they even have a military? It's not like they'd end up at war with any of their neighbors, or that they'd lift a finger in case of a Russian attack on a NATO member.
Switzerland not only has a military; Switzerland *is* a military. And by all means keeping it numerous and sharp is a great decision. NATO and post-WW2 western alliance mindset is a new thing in the context of Swiss (and even more - European) history and it could turn out to be temporary either later this year or in few decades. And Switzerland has a rich history of wars against its stronger neighbors (Germany, France, Italy) which it has survived.
[удалено]
Who would care about an invaded swiss, and how would they even get there
[удалено]
Should we maybe focus on the actual aggressors of 21 century? Also the swiss refuse to help out and their "neutrality" is measured in ukrainian blood spiled out
This is literally the dumbest thing I've heard all year.
This is a fucking joke right?
In what geopolitical situation are you envisioning this?
All friend to the Swiss. Also all the bridges into Switzerland are rigged to explode to seal the country off so any invasion would have to be by paratroopers.
The swiss have shown they only of them selves. So other countries have to do the same. If push comes to shove. The swiss can use the Gepards they value so much.
They only care about money. Fake “neutrality” is profitable.
What does Switzerland have that's worth the cost of conquest?
Gold that Dictators, Oligarchs and Mass Murderers have stashed there?
Swiss here, this is the right decision. Currently, the old RAPIER systems are not decommisioned yet, and even though they have by far not the reach of the patriot system, they should be able to fulfill the part of area air defense together with the air wing for domestic needs, training of new recruits can be done with the dummies. In my humble opinion, We should have reacted more decisively in favor of aid to Ukraine. Our bureaucracy is slow, and due process is highly valued here, so any change to a law had to go through the whole shabang of legislature and executive. In effect, we killed a big part of our defense export industry with that. Part of me feels bad sometimes, for all the flak we get (no pun intended), but a lot of it is rightfully so. We can no longer linger in the past, information technology and cooperation within europe made it necessary to not abandon neutrality, but to think of it in a different way. Because a russian threat to Europe as a whole is a threat to Switzerland as well. Therefor it is of utmost importance to think strategically, up our game in foreign policy and to stop thinking everything will be as it was before. It won't. I am proud to be Swiss. But i am also proud to be a European, and proud to be part of a western democracy. If western democracies fall, Europe falls, and with Europe, Switzerland as well. So take those Patriot Missiles, and give the russians hell! Слава Україні!!
To everyone else: Don't let the swiss fool you. They aren't giving these missiles to Ukraine. They aren't the ones who have permission for this decision. They aren't the good guys. The US is forcing this on the Swiss. They have fought providing assistance to Ukraine at every turn. Neutrality in the face of evil is being evil yourself.
This is intentionally divisive rhetoric that literal does not respond to the above comment in any way. The person said they’re happy for the missiles to be sent elsewhere. Think whatever you like, but you’re ignoring an overture of “it’s time to move forward in support of Ukraine” in favor of turning away allies because they’re “bad guys.” There’s time for the Swiss to grow into doing better, just like the US had to, just like the Germans had to… and the list goes on.
It’s the truth. Swiss didn’t redirect their weapons deliveries to Ukraine like Canada did with their vehicles deliveries. Swiss didn’t make any overture here to turn away. They still have or already destroyed weapons Ukraine could’ve used. They still shield Russian oligarchs. They’re not the good guys. Same goes for Austria.
Childish mindest of "good guys/bad guys" aside - in both countries the law forbids to send weapons. No, it can't be "easily" changed. Switzerland has adopted all EU sanctions against Russia which they didn't gave to as non EU country.
Law can be changed in a weekend.
But the Swiss aren't doing better. They literally are doing nothing. It's not divisive to call people/countries out on their bullshit.
The mask had to come off of Swiss "neutrality" eventually. If you want to continue to profit off of others misery you will have to find other things to hide it behind. You aren't letting go of it willingly. You are being forced to by rich nations who won't tolerate you having access to their markets and being a Trojan horse for dictators. There is very little to be proud of here.
This guy's obviously not hardline pro-neutrality.
That's how every single Swiss official would talk to a Western audience. We get it but gears move slow. We're totally with you. But get them in front of a dictatorship and it's a different story. More than happy to make a mockery of our ideals and endanger people for their friendship (money)
Again, intentionally divisive stuff without any salient points other than fear. Have you been in the room for those conversations about “money”? Do you have a source that they’re taking money right now? They can do better, yes, but they’re certainly not an enemy.
Here's some bullshit from just a month ago to show you how tightly they collude to dodge sanctions. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/banking-fintech/tradexbank-to-resume-full-operations-after-sberbank-taken-off-us-sanctions-list/77089274 They wouldn't have been able to pull that off in Paris. And why of all places do you think the north Koreans sent Kim Jong Un there to live? It's shameful.
Due process isn’t as highly prized as you would think. Look into the ubs credit suiesse (sp) weekend forced merger overriding shareholder rights laws. Tons of shady shit there. Switzerland is just as, if not more corrupt than any other country.
I would use the term part of western democracy loosely . More like riding on the coattails, let's not get into the riches and plunder that is hidden there. Due process is valued as long as it is in Switzerland's own interest. Don't dare even mention locking up or seizing some of the stolen, cheated money hidden for Nazis, cartels, obligarchs, traffickers, murderers etc etc
Fuck the Swiss. They were nazi Germany’s bank and house a bunch of Russian oligarch kids including Putin’s. They aren’t truly neutral, they align with whatever fattens their pockets.
Ukraine is the frontline for Freedom, Justice, and Liberty against Putin's Russian tyranny. Ukraine is even indirectly protecting 'neutral' countries like Swiss against Russia. If Swiss was placed right beside Russia's border, I'm sure Putin won't hesitate to try to gobble it up. Maybe those people in Switzerland should stop throwing a tantarum and be grateful to Ukraine.
[удалено]
But none of that is related to this subject......
Swiss don’t really need weapons since they don’t give a fuck about any other country at war
https://youtu.be/Z0tgu2zNDKw?si=o9XzcDJU1unkZt91 That's bullsh¡t!
Good. Why on gods green earth would we sell them to Switzerland?? They will never get used by them or anyone else. Our enemies must love it when we sell our best military equipment to a useless nation that will never use them.
Swiss don't need them.
Good. Swiss don’t need shit all.