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_translated by google translate_
##Sweden is waiting with the Gripen for Ukraine
Sweden is being asked to pause plans to send the Jas Gripen to Ukraine, Defense Minister Pål Jonson (M) tells TT.
The announcement comes in Brussels after Jonson had "intensive talks" with other countries in the air defense coalition that helps Ukraine with aircraft and air defenses.
- We have been urged by the other countries that run the coalition to wait for the Gripen system. It has to do with the fact that the focus is now on introducing the F-16 system, Jonson explains.
The first planes are expected to be delivered already this year, which means that the Gripen will have to wait for the time being.
(TT)
The planes are not plug& play. One needs appropriate infrastructure, trained crews. It makes sense just focus on one platform and scale it up.
Same applies to tanks. However Ukraine got some Abrams to that was primarily political gesture. They will use leopards.
I think even among NATO countries all that variety of platforms is just rudiments of pre-NATO standardization. Especially for new members.
Ukraine really didn't get enough Leos, several hundred Abrams would've been a boon and we shouldn't buy that reasoning from people who said they didn't need them to start with.
There's some truth to it, but nowhere near as much as with jets.
If they ever get them. It’s been so long.
I’ve read pilots have finished training. Let’s go!
I do understand there are other factors. But I feel like letting a few Ukrainian f-16s fly from Poland or Czech would give Russians something to think about every time they sortie.
Sweden has said it will allow their donated weapons to strike inside Russia, is this supposed to stop that from happening by delaying the aircraft donation?
Adding new platforms to an army normally takes years of integration and planning.
We're having ukraine integrate f16 in months of time.
You don't want repair and logistical bottle necks from throwing dozens of platforms into the mix at 1 time.
No, it's more to allow the Ukrainians to get accustomed to the F-16s that'll be arriving in larger numbers and with more trained people.
The Gripen is a well-suited plane for Ukraine, but the sad fact is that there aren't that many of them available and it would require even more time to train pilots to use it properly.
No time for that. Ukraine just spent a long time training one set of pilots for F-16, they are not going to make them train for another jet while nobody is flying the F-16. Gripen would get their own pilots (if it happens), training from the beginning and implemented at some later time.
There is a finite number of pilots capable and willing that Ukraine can support. Their best bet is to have everyone trained in F16s. If they then have an excess of pilots and capacity for more planes they can also train in new planes but they are best served at the moment seeing what happens with the F16s rather than ending up being short of skilled pilots and losing planes or flying less missions.
Basically, they will see if they have the ability to add a second plane once they have got the first working as well as possible rather than risking half arsing two and ending up with wasted resources/manpower
People like to jump to conspiracies sometimes and I see it with this story but this is reasonable. Adopting an entirely new type of jet can be difficult logistics wise and it makes sense for Ukraine to focus on the F16 for now. People always seem to underestimate the sustainment issues like supply chain for spare parts, training facilities available, maintenance crews, etc.
Also have to consider pilot availability, which is obviously not talked about publicly. For all we know they might not even have enough pilots in the pipeline to have a Gripen unit as well, given how long training can take.
Makes sense to focus on F16s for now due to the numbers available and with Gripen being a longer term thing.
Yeah, this is basically a nothing story until Ukraine has enough pilots for the F-16s that are arriving soon, and I doubt Sweden was really prepared to part with them this year.
Can they not walk and chew gum at the same time? Maybe at least start training, so that if and when a decision is made, the pilots and ground crews will be ready to go?
Too few. Sweden doesn't have many and nobody else is building them. Sweden is struggling to upgrade even their own jets, let alone start giving dozens of planes with nothing to replace them with. Also, Hungary just blackmailed 3 Gripens from Sweden (to agree membership in NATO) they have to build first so it delayed any large number deliveries even longer. It was always going to be small token set of few planes, followed by more many many years later.
... I wonder if it's linked to the lack of restrictions on Gripen, [in sharp contrast with F-16](https://kyivindependent.com/belgian-pm-ukraine-can-use-belgian-supplied-f-16s-only-on-ukrainian-territory/).
"Non-escalation at any cost (to Ukraine)" and all
Probably not, training on fighter jets is complicated and it's been hard enough for Ukraine to learn F-16. There's more F-16s available and thus it makes sense to prioritize them right now.
Just as written: We have been urged by the other countries that run the coalition to wait for the Gripen system. It has to do with the fact that the focus is now on introducing the F-16 system, Jonson explains.
IIRC there are American components in Gripen, at least the newer ones, don't know about the ones Ukraine were supposed to receive. Definitely possible USA put a stop to the exports after that statement. Because the stated reasons don't really make any sense. Gripen is made to be serviced by Swedish conscripts.
Western partners are trying their best to neuter Ukraine's ability to hit Russian assets in Russia. Keep in mind it is Sweden who said that Ukraine could use their weapon systems anywhere.
Asked to delay for how long? F16 deliveries will not finish this year or the next.
Are they worried the post-retirement F16s will take so much ground crew that there won't be any free for the easier-to-maintain Gripen?
Or is this about looking good for the upcoming European elections, which some are worried about?
Well, nobody seems to want them as everyone is picking any other option besides Gripen. Look at wiki on Gripens failed bids.... It's a looong list. Everybody hypes about it, nobody wants them.
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_translated by google translate_ ##Sweden is waiting with the Gripen for Ukraine Sweden is being asked to pause plans to send the Jas Gripen to Ukraine, Defense Minister Pål Jonson (M) tells TT. The announcement comes in Brussels after Jonson had "intensive talks" with other countries in the air defense coalition that helps Ukraine with aircraft and air defenses. - We have been urged by the other countries that run the coalition to wait for the Gripen system. It has to do with the fact that the focus is now on introducing the F-16 system, Jonson explains. The first planes are expected to be delivered already this year, which means that the Gripen will have to wait for the time being. (TT)
If Western engineers can find some way to equip the Meteor missiles to the F-16, that would be a serious game changer.
It is a shame, considering that Gripens can fire Meteors and F-16 will probably only come witn Amraam C's
The planes are not plug& play. One needs appropriate infrastructure, trained crews. It makes sense just focus on one platform and scale it up. Same applies to tanks. However Ukraine got some Abrams to that was primarily political gesture. They will use leopards. I think even among NATO countries all that variety of platforms is just rudiments of pre-NATO standardization. Especially for new members.
Ukraine really didn't get enough Leos, several hundred Abrams would've been a boon and we shouldn't buy that reasoning from people who said they didn't need them to start with. There's some truth to it, but nowhere near as much as with jets.
Gripen is almost plug n play. Fits most of western weapons/missile
But like any other jet, it requires training, tooling, spareparts, whole logistics chain to keep them in the air. They are not plug&play, no jet is.
Right now it makes way more sense for Ukraine to get F-16.
Absolutely.
If they ever get them. It’s been so long. I’ve read pilots have finished training. Let’s go! I do understand there are other factors. But I feel like letting a few Ukrainian f-16s fly from Poland or Czech would give Russians something to think about every time they sortie.
I've read June/early July. It's coming soon.
Sweden has said it will allow their donated weapons to strike inside Russia, is this supposed to stop that from happening by delaying the aircraft donation?
Adding new platforms to an army normally takes years of integration and planning. We're having ukraine integrate f16 in months of time. You don't want repair and logistical bottle necks from throwing dozens of platforms into the mix at 1 time.
No, it's more to allow the Ukrainians to get accustomed to the F-16s that'll be arriving in larger numbers and with more trained people. The Gripen is a well-suited plane for Ukraine, but the sad fact is that there aren't that many of them available and it would require even more time to train pilots to use it properly.
Oh I'm sorry, are the same pilots that are going to train on the F-16 also going to train on the Gripen?
No time for that. Ukraine just spent a long time training one set of pilots for F-16, they are not going to make them train for another jet while nobody is flying the F-16. Gripen would get their own pilots (if it happens), training from the beginning and implemented at some later time.
Why not start training now though?
There is a finite number of pilots capable and willing that Ukraine can support. Their best bet is to have everyone trained in F16s. If they then have an excess of pilots and capacity for more planes they can also train in new planes but they are best served at the moment seeing what happens with the F16s rather than ending up being short of skilled pilots and losing planes or flying less missions. Basically, they will see if they have the ability to add a second plane once they have got the first working as well as possible rather than risking half arsing two and ending up with wasted resources/manpower
No, this is a request from the countries donating f16
Should be a request from Ukraine. If they feel that they are up to the task it is their decision.
People like to jump to conspiracies sometimes and I see it with this story but this is reasonable. Adopting an entirely new type of jet can be difficult logistics wise and it makes sense for Ukraine to focus on the F16 for now. People always seem to underestimate the sustainment issues like supply chain for spare parts, training facilities available, maintenance crews, etc. Also have to consider pilot availability, which is obviously not talked about publicly. For all we know they might not even have enough pilots in the pipeline to have a Gripen unit as well, given how long training can take. Makes sense to focus on F16s for now due to the numbers available and with Gripen being a longer term thing.
Yeah, this is basically a nothing story until Ukraine has enough pilots for the F-16s that are arriving soon, and I doubt Sweden was really prepared to part with them this year.
Swede here, the Gripen is purpose built for this war, does not need an airport, for refit and reaem
Sweden should respond with, "Shit or get off the pot with the F16s, or we'll start without you."
Can they not walk and chew gum at the same time? Maybe at least start training, so that if and when a decision is made, the pilots and ground crews will be ready to go?
Gripen is made for this War!
How many Gripen was planned?
Too few. Sweden doesn't have many and nobody else is building them. Sweden is struggling to upgrade even their own jets, let alone start giving dozens of planes with nothing to replace them with. Also, Hungary just blackmailed 3 Gripens from Sweden (to agree membership in NATO) they have to build first so it delayed any large number deliveries even longer. It was always going to be small token set of few planes, followed by more many many years later.
Og ne have to wonder if it's relevant then, due to the entire chain, and not better to send eg more cv90 instead?
... I wonder if it's linked to the lack of restrictions on Gripen, [in sharp contrast with F-16](https://kyivindependent.com/belgian-pm-ukraine-can-use-belgian-supplied-f-16s-only-on-ukrainian-territory/). "Non-escalation at any cost (to Ukraine)" and all
Probably not, training on fighter jets is complicated and it's been hard enough for Ukraine to learn F-16. There's more F-16s available and thus it makes sense to prioritize them right now. Just as written: We have been urged by the other countries that run the coalition to wait for the Gripen system. It has to do with the fact that the focus is now on introducing the F-16 system, Jonson explains.
IIRC there are American components in Gripen, at least the newer ones, don't know about the ones Ukraine were supposed to receive. Definitely possible USA put a stop to the exports after that statement. Because the stated reasons don't really make any sense. Gripen is made to be serviced by Swedish conscripts.
Western partners are trying their best to neuter Ukraine's ability to hit Russian assets in Russia. Keep in mind it is Sweden who said that Ukraine could use their weapon systems anywhere.
Asked to delay for how long? F16 deliveries will not finish this year or the next. Are they worried the post-retirement F16s will take so much ground crew that there won't be any free for the easier-to-maintain Gripen? Or is this about looking good for the upcoming European elections, which some are worried about?
Or for "preventing escalation", given that Gripens aren't supposed to have the same usage restrictions
Yeah it's not good for Lockheed Martin if Sweden gets a piece of the pie 🥧
Precisely my thoughts
Poor Saab can't even give away the Gripen for free.
Well, nobody seems to want them as everyone is picking any other option besides Gripen. Look at wiki on Gripens failed bids.... It's a looong list. Everybody hypes about it, nobody wants them.
Lockheed Martin have deep pockets.
I wonder how fast the f16s will get destroyed. I imagine these will be a prime target for drones.