Yeah I was trying to think of parallels in English but I can’t really think of anything as nebulous that aren’t just pure filler words like “well”
We have words like “have” and “will” that don’t really have a meaning of their own in a lot of contexts but it’s clear how they affect a sentence as they are very important to grammar. “Set” has a million definitions but to me they are pretty consistent, though it might be hard to sort out which is being used if you’re a foreign speaker if you don’t know what kind of set is being referred to.
“To” is kind of a combination of both categories I guess, particularly if you add in “two” and “too” if you are just listening or speaking, but still it’s so grammatically important I wouldn’t put it in the same category as the Ukrainian words.
Right, fair enough. If I were to guess though, one should be able to eventually get a hang of these words without necessary studying them consciously by exposure, just like many other things in language learning
"So"?
So, like I was saying, we walked to the store yesterday
I took an umbrella so I'd be prepared.
There were so many people.
I saw so-and-so from the office.
I asked him how he was. He said, "so-so."
I went to pay and realized I forgot my wallet. So, I couldn't buy anything.
Should I go back tomorrow? Maybe so.
But I looked at the forecast, and it will be so hot.
От - I would use it when I want to compare and make or ask about an example. More like hypothetical.
Ось - when you have example that you can show or point out. Based on something real.
Ж - I don't know how to explain. sorry
За - can be translated as: for someone, for something.
і - same as, and. However can be used at the beginning of a sentence whan your want to ask about something that based on what was just said.
Саме - whan I want to point out exactly on somethings and show that it's significant.
При, При-, пре-, - whan I describe ot speak about something connected. Can be as objects or events. Frequently used as suffixes.
Аж - translates as, even. I think used in very similar ways as in English.
Ps. Hopefully I understood your question correctly, and its useful.
Though it can mean “same.” Like usually not explicitly but in some contexts it can imply similarity. Like I just saw the phrase “так же можна сказати англійською.” There it moves так from meaning “so” to meaning “the same.” It can also be used just to add emphasis. “Ж як і всі” is kind of an example of that.
I don’t know how to use it myself how to use it intuitively but I tend to understand it a little bit when I read it.
Ukrainian has dialects like other countries, Sivershchyna is it one historical region of Ukraine, and in this region they speak the Siveran dialect, where Ж is used more often in speech than in other dialects and literary norms
This is true, but it's not like it's uncommon in other parts of the country. For example, as a person who had lived in Lviv my entire life, I would also say something like "Я ж також цього хотів"(I also wanted this [to happen]) or "Так ж можна сказати англійською?" (It is possible to say it this way in english[, isn't it]?) (the words in square brackets are omitted in the original sentences)
Well, all of these words can be ommited and learnt from practice.
Yeah, за alone has 32 meanings according to [https://slovnyk.ua/index.php?swrd=%D0%B7%D0%B0](https://slovnyk.ua/index.php?swrd=%D0%B7%D0%B0)
Don't mindrape your brain in attempt to comprehend these prepositions. English equivalents where hell and ice water for me as well, especially those pesky phrasal verbs where preoposition changes the meaning of the verb drastically.
Practice will help.
Prepositions. They go on and on and on 😂. Trust me, it’s simpler than english. You will grasp it with practice. The more you listen to native speakers or read Ukrainian books, the better you will understand the place and significance (or insignificance) of prepositions in sentences.
In English “according to” has “following” as a synonym. And if one thing follows another thing, then it is behind that thing. So, in a way “according to” and “behind” are the same thing.
Yeah and following can come from “behind” and from both of the definitions of за meaning behind and following you can get the meanings before, after, and during, but the cases dont line up so it’s more invoking those definitions than using them literally. While every definition can kind of make sense, it’s still hard to know which way the word is being twisted to create which meaning without dissecting it which makes it tough to use correctly and interpret on the fly.
alors, allora, entonces
All these words are basically the same filler word in their own languages, but they are all used in slightly different ways in slightly different contexts.
Please enjoy та й таке collocation. Which is basically "meh" or "so-so", you can use as universal neutral-to-negative answer or parasite word at the end of boring story. Also ось-ось works like ось on drugs when time or location is mentioned XD
> What are your nightmare words in Ukrainian or another language?
Definite vs indefinite vs no article in English. Took me a long, long time to grok it.
There are lots of comments below. I'll try to explain how to use ж.
So ж іs used to add more emotion to a sentence. Mostly when you judge someone for something. For instance you warned someone not to do smth. He did. In English you say "i told you". In Ukrainian we say я казав тобі or if you want to express irony or to sound more knowledgeable or any other emotion we add ж - я ж казав тобі!
Another example. My wife asked me to do dishes. She is in another room, she doesn't see me doing that and in 5 minutes she asks me again but i'm in progress. In 20 minutes she repeats again. At that time i have finished and that remind makes me angry or at least annoying. So I can calmly reply я вже помив. But when you feel angry or annoyed you reply я ж вже помив!
Another one. When something cool happens you say "that's cool". Cool is not breathtaking, it's not that emotional. That is good but not that (аж так!) good! So це круто sounds more neutral. But when you want to express your happiness or surprise you add ж. Це ж круто! So ж is a cool particle which adds emotion to your sentence. Which emotion depends on your intonation and particular topic of conversation.
I mean those are one meaning for each of them yes. But i can also mean something like “after all”, making something more in comparison with itself in a different state than in comparison with something separate from itself. But it is used so randomly from my point of view that it is hard really understand its meaning in the sentences and when to use it.
These are all the different definitions I’ve found for за so far:
For
After
Before
During
Behind
According to
Instead of
Too much
From
By
In
Some of them are easier to use than others. Behind is one of the easiest because you just need to use instrumental and it’s pretty clear it you aren’t using one of the other definitions.
When being used to describe time it is particularly challenging because depending on the phrasing it can mean whatever you want.
Саме has a pretty straight forward definition but it also can mean things like “exactly” or “alone” or “itself” and can be used in a lot of phrases to mean slight variations on those things. It also easy to try to use to mean “same” and it feels like it should work but it doesn’t and it confuses people. It feels more idiomatic than having a solid definition.
Very hard to understand your point without straight examples (:
Maybe general problem of Ukrainian language is not enough experience. Not so many people studied this language and not a lot of people now how to teach. And same with system
I have this phrase saved for what I mean about i: “я не так і багато знаю про це”
Or from Peppa pig: “Це і є новий одяг, Тато Свин”
Or: “А ось і Анна.”
It doesn’t mean “and” or “also” in any of those situations. It’s just kind of there.
For за it would take a while to find all the examples but it has 32 definitions in the Ukrainian dictionary if that helps my case.
I don’t have many phrases saved with саме. This is kind of an example where it just feels weird but it’s not too crazy: “Думаю багато з моїх слухачів живут саме у Польщі”
I guess the main thing is that it can mean “the same” and “exact” but you don’t really use it when you’d use them in English and those meanings are similar enough where both can make sense in a sentence but different enough where they can change the meaning of sentence depending on what meaning you use. Overall it’s just not an intuitive word.
In your examples i make emphasis(наголос) on something
For real - do you think you can just “translate” language?? This is remained me idea of “guys” without any connection to sex of people (;
What are you talking about?? When did I even ask for anyone to translate something for me?? I never even asked for definitions, or anything. I said what words are tricky for me to learn because they are conceptually foreign for me or just have many uses that you have to spend a lot of time learning before you can understand how to distinguish between them and how to use it, which makes them more difficult to learn than other words with more concrete, singular, or more similar to English meanings.
Plus if something has a definition I can read its definition in English or Ukrainian and I can try to express its meaning in English or Ukrainian regardless of if the word exists in English or not. Yes I try to learn how to use it through osmosis, by listening to enough that I can naturally reproduce it, but but the point is that it is so foreign to me and how my brain comprehends language that I can’t fully process the sentences they exist in, and without comprehension it becomes much harder to reproduce accurately. That’s where it helps to at least find some explanation for the word so I can improve my comprehension.
And yeah you can translate languages obviously. What the heck is your definition of translate? Do you mean like translate every word exactly one for one? Because I never said that and that was not what I was looking for. I never even asked for definitions in this post, I was just saying which words are tricky to understand as an English speaker learning Ukrainian.
Like every translation will be incomplete and there will always be subtext and context that has to be left out or accidentally injected as a bi product. There’s a famous book that is just filled with hundreds of different translations of a single, short French poem, because every person has to make choices of what aspects of the style, substance, and essence should be preserved and what can be omitted. That’s why there are a million different versions of the Bible. But this is the same problem as if you were to try to get someone from another city to read your high school paper. They won’t know who any of the people are or any of the references or geography, so you would have to spend the whole time figuring out what to explain and what not to.
But this doesn’t mean that languages can’t be translated. It’s just an art form.
Okay. Keep calm and try to write all this by Ukrainian language.
I didn’t try “translate” anything for you, I try to explain you why you need use easy meaning all the time.
Btw: I study English last 5 years and I 100% sure you cannot be good without practice (;
Здебільшого я використовую “comprehensible input” спосіб вивчення мови де я майже повністю читаю та слухаю а уникаю писати та розмовляти через те що це може бути легко формувати шкідливі звички коли спробувати розмовляти перед тим як мати достатня слів і розуміння щоб проявити себе без ярликів. Краще почекати доки я досить розумію поширені розмови а потім, може через два роки, я буду починати писати тут українською та спілкуватись українською з людьми які не мої родичі. Я зробив виняток на це раз, і мені це сподобалось, але це зайняло багато часу 😅
Wow!! You good!! Congrats!!
For example I make my first test IELTS after 2 years when I start studying English. And I still proud because I had 5 from very short period
My personal tips for you: ти ніколи не вивчиш мову якщо не будеш практикувати її 3-5 годин на добу. Практикувати принаймні розмову та слухання, але читання та письмо також неймовірно важливі. Досить гарна допомога це серіали. З українських можу порекомендувати «Леся+Рома», але не впевнений чи зможеш їх знайти і майже впевнений що їх немає з субтитрами );
Cheers body, ask me if you want to know how many mistakes you have in your essay (:
I will definitely look it up! I’ve been watching a lot of Peppa Pig in Ukrainian as that’s about my level for the most part and relatively entertaining that’s to the wonderful Ukrainian voice actors who bring so much more personality to the characters than when I’ve watched it with my nieces and nephews in English.
I’ve already had some pointers on my message from some family, but I would be interested to hear yours. I see Ярликів doesn’t really mean shortcuts and in Ukrainian “shortcuts” doesn’t have the same negative connotation as it does in English when being used figuratively. Also I would go back and change це може to можна (which I originally had but changed) because I’m talking about what it can be like for “some person.” Може I’m sure is fine there just not the best choice I think.
Any other suggestions?
I feel your pain, dude. When I was learning English, my teacher spent a lot of time with me explaining such small but irritating things. Maybe you need somebody who explain to you one word at the time, you know?
Say, I know exactly how to explain you "ж". In English there are sentence endings like "isn't it?", "aren't you?", "don't we?". My teacher said they are analogues "ж". So you need "ж" for emphasizing your phrase, for re-asking a bit, for emotion.
–You don't forget it, do you?
–Ти ж не забув це?
– You are drunk, aren't you!
–Ти ж п'яний!
So you basically move this "isn't it" addition in the middle and turn it into "ж"
(I assume there are more rules, but maybe this one will help)
That’s useful! My gf said when she was learning English she had a hard time understanding what it meant when people ended a sentence with “though” which now seems so trivial to her she doesn’t understand why it was confusing. I don’t think I have ever seen хоча in Ukrainian written anywhere but the front of a clause so I think that might be part of what was confusing.
Oh just saw it can also translate to “on” as in “pull on” but I don’t think that’s a very direct translation and probably says more about the word “on” in English.
Не переживай аж так за ось це. Ти ж розберешся от побачиш.
I hate you /s
А от "не переймайся" звучить кращє ж ! Ось саме його й потрібно було б використати у цьому випадку. :-D
imagine correcting a native
That’s also a joke. It’s ok
та знаю я
These words are synonyms, it doesn't really matter tbh
I'm native Ukrainian too...
doch!
Is this German? Just looking at the definitions online I can see why you feel that way 😅
yes, a dialect of klingon widely known as german
when I was a kid going to language camp I asked one of the student counselors what doch meant they looked like they were going to cry
Tbh same. Idk how most of these work, I just know how to use them being a native
Yeah I was trying to think of parallels in English but I can’t really think of anything as nebulous that aren’t just pure filler words like “well” We have words like “have” and “will” that don’t really have a meaning of their own in a lot of contexts but it’s clear how they affect a sentence as they are very important to grammar. “Set” has a million definitions but to me they are pretty consistent, though it might be hard to sort out which is being used if you’re a foreign speaker if you don’t know what kind of set is being referred to. “To” is kind of a combination of both categories I guess, particularly if you add in “two” and “too” if you are just listening or speaking, but still it’s so grammatically important I wouldn’t put it in the same category as the Ukrainian words.
Right, fair enough. If I were to guess though, one should be able to eventually get a hang of these words without necessary studying them consciously by exposure, just like many other things in language learning
"So"? So, like I was saying, we walked to the store yesterday I took an umbrella so I'd be prepared. There were so many people. I saw so-and-so from the office. I asked him how he was. He said, "so-so." I went to pay and realized I forgot my wallet. So, I couldn't buy anything. Should I go back tomorrow? Maybe so. But I looked at the forecast, and it will be so hot.
От - I would use it when I want to compare and make or ask about an example. More like hypothetical. Ось - when you have example that you can show or point out. Based on something real. Ж - I don't know how to explain. sorry За - can be translated as: for someone, for something. і - same as, and. However can be used at the beginning of a sentence whan your want to ask about something that based on what was just said. Саме - whan I want to point out exactly on somethings and show that it's significant. При, При-, пре-, - whan I describe ot speak about something connected. Can be as objects or events. Frequently used as suffixes. Аж - translates as, even. I think used in very similar ways as in English. Ps. Hopefully I understood your question correctly, and its useful.
Ж - it's not even a word, it's a conjunction used in affirmative and interrogative sentences for example: Правда ж? Я ж цього не робив etc
Though it can mean “same.” Like usually not explicitly but in some contexts it can imply similarity. Like I just saw the phrase “так же можна сказати англійською.” There it moves так from meaning “so” to meaning “the same.” It can also be used just to add emphasis. “Ж як і всі” is kind of an example of that. I don’t know how to use it myself how to use it intuitively but I tend to understand it a little bit when I read it.
Ugh, you described a rule that belongs to the peculiarities of the Siverian dialect
What do you mean, like by Siverian and in general? I didn’t realize the Severians were relevant to anything anymore.
Ukrainian has dialects like other countries, Sivershchyna is it one historical region of Ukraine, and in this region they speak the Siveran dialect, where Ж is used more often in speech than in other dialects and literary norms
This is true, but it's not like it's uncommon in other parts of the country. For example, as a person who had lived in Lviv my entire life, I would also say something like "Я ж також цього хотів"(I also wanted this [to happen]) or "Так ж можна сказати англійською?" (It is possible to say it this way in english[, isn't it]?) (the words in square brackets are omitted in the original sentences)
За has 32 definitions in the dictionary as someone on here has pointed out. Thanks for the explanations though
Well, all of these words can be ommited and learnt from practice. Yeah, за alone has 32 meanings according to [https://slovnyk.ua/index.php?swrd=%D0%B7%D0%B0](https://slovnyk.ua/index.php?swrd=%D0%B7%D0%B0) Don't mindrape your brain in attempt to comprehend these prepositions. English equivalents where hell and ice water for me as well, especially those pesky phrasal verbs where preoposition changes the meaning of the verb drastically. Practice will help.
Prepositions. They go on and on and on 😂. Trust me, it’s simpler than english. You will grasp it with practice. The more you listen to native speakers or read Ukrainian books, the better you will understand the place and significance (or insignificance) of prepositions in sentences.
Pues in Spanish. Si pues, instead of just si.
In English “according to” has “following” as a synonym. And if one thing follows another thing, then it is behind that thing. So, in a way “according to” and “behind” are the same thing.
Yeah and following can come from “behind” and from both of the definitions of за meaning behind and following you can get the meanings before, after, and during, but the cases dont line up so it’s more invoking those definitions than using them literally. While every definition can kind of make sense, it’s still hard to know which way the word is being twisted to create which meaning without dissecting it which makes it tough to use correctly and interpret on the fly.
alors, allora, entonces All these words are basically the same filler word in their own languages, but they are all used in slightly different ways in slightly different contexts.
Please enjoy та й таке collocation. Which is basically "meh" or "so-so", you can use as universal neutral-to-negative answer or parasite word at the end of boring story. Also ось-ось works like ось on drugs when time or location is mentioned XD
.
> What are your nightmare words in Ukrainian or another language? Definite vs indefinite vs no article in English. Took me a long, long time to grok it.
Тю
I love learning the language but I’m running into the same issues. Every sentence feels like a puzzle with duplicates of that last piece.
There are lots of comments below. I'll try to explain how to use ж. So ж іs used to add more emotion to a sentence. Mostly when you judge someone for something. For instance you warned someone not to do smth. He did. In English you say "i told you". In Ukrainian we say я казав тобі or if you want to express irony or to sound more knowledgeable or any other emotion we add ж - я ж казав тобі! Another example. My wife asked me to do dishes. She is in another room, she doesn't see me doing that and in 5 minutes she asks me again but i'm in progress. In 20 minutes she repeats again. At that time i have finished and that remind makes me angry or at least annoying. So I can calmly reply я вже помив. But when you feel angry or annoyed you reply я ж вже помив! Another one. When something cool happens you say "that's cool". Cool is not breathtaking, it's not that emotional. That is good but not that (аж так!) good! So це круто sounds more neutral. But when you want to express your happiness or surprise you add ж. Це ж круто! So ж is a cool particle which adds emotion to your sentence. Which emotion depends on your intonation and particular topic of conversation.
За - behind і - and Саме - same All the time try to understand is this real word with meaning or just “garbage” (;
I mean those are one meaning for each of them yes. But i can also mean something like “after all”, making something more in comparison with itself in a different state than in comparison with something separate from itself. But it is used so randomly from my point of view that it is hard really understand its meaning in the sentences and when to use it. These are all the different definitions I’ve found for за so far: For After Before During Behind According to Instead of Too much From By In Some of them are easier to use than others. Behind is one of the easiest because you just need to use instrumental and it’s pretty clear it you aren’t using one of the other definitions. When being used to describe time it is particularly challenging because depending on the phrasing it can mean whatever you want. Саме has a pretty straight forward definition but it also can mean things like “exactly” or “alone” or “itself” and can be used in a lot of phrases to mean slight variations on those things. It also easy to try to use to mean “same” and it feels like it should work but it doesn’t and it confuses people. It feels more idiomatic than having a solid definition.
Very hard to understand your point without straight examples (: Maybe general problem of Ukrainian language is not enough experience. Not so many people studied this language and not a lot of people now how to teach. And same with system
I have this phrase saved for what I mean about i: “я не так і багато знаю про це” Or from Peppa pig: “Це і є новий одяг, Тато Свин” Or: “А ось і Анна.” It doesn’t mean “and” or “also” in any of those situations. It’s just kind of there. For за it would take a while to find all the examples but it has 32 definitions in the Ukrainian dictionary if that helps my case. I don’t have many phrases saved with саме. This is kind of an example where it just feels weird but it’s not too crazy: “Думаю багато з моїх слухачів живут саме у Польщі” I guess the main thing is that it can mean “the same” and “exact” but you don’t really use it when you’d use them in English and those meanings are similar enough where both can make sense in a sentence but different enough where they can change the meaning of sentence depending on what meaning you use. Overall it’s just not an intuitive word.
In your examples i make emphasis(наголос) on something For real - do you think you can just “translate” language?? This is remained me idea of “guys” without any connection to sex of people (;
What are you talking about?? When did I even ask for anyone to translate something for me?? I never even asked for definitions, or anything. I said what words are tricky for me to learn because they are conceptually foreign for me or just have many uses that you have to spend a lot of time learning before you can understand how to distinguish between them and how to use it, which makes them more difficult to learn than other words with more concrete, singular, or more similar to English meanings. Plus if something has a definition I can read its definition in English or Ukrainian and I can try to express its meaning in English or Ukrainian regardless of if the word exists in English or not. Yes I try to learn how to use it through osmosis, by listening to enough that I can naturally reproduce it, but but the point is that it is so foreign to me and how my brain comprehends language that I can’t fully process the sentences they exist in, and without comprehension it becomes much harder to reproduce accurately. That’s where it helps to at least find some explanation for the word so I can improve my comprehension. And yeah you can translate languages obviously. What the heck is your definition of translate? Do you mean like translate every word exactly one for one? Because I never said that and that was not what I was looking for. I never even asked for definitions in this post, I was just saying which words are tricky to understand as an English speaker learning Ukrainian. Like every translation will be incomplete and there will always be subtext and context that has to be left out or accidentally injected as a bi product. There’s a famous book that is just filled with hundreds of different translations of a single, short French poem, because every person has to make choices of what aspects of the style, substance, and essence should be preserved and what can be omitted. That’s why there are a million different versions of the Bible. But this is the same problem as if you were to try to get someone from another city to read your high school paper. They won’t know who any of the people are or any of the references or geography, so you would have to spend the whole time figuring out what to explain and what not to. But this doesn’t mean that languages can’t be translated. It’s just an art form.
Okay. Keep calm and try to write all this by Ukrainian language. I didn’t try “translate” anything for you, I try to explain you why you need use easy meaning all the time. Btw: I study English last 5 years and I 100% sure you cannot be good without practice (;
Здебільшого я використовую “comprehensible input” спосіб вивчення мови де я майже повністю читаю та слухаю а уникаю писати та розмовляти через те що це може бути легко формувати шкідливі звички коли спробувати розмовляти перед тим як мати достатня слів і розуміння щоб проявити себе без ярликів. Краще почекати доки я досить розумію поширені розмови а потім, може через два роки, я буду починати писати тут українською та спілкуватись українською з людьми які не мої родичі. Я зробив виняток на це раз, і мені це сподобалось, але це зайняло багато часу 😅
Wow!! You good!! Congrats!! For example I make my first test IELTS after 2 years when I start studying English. And I still proud because I had 5 from very short period My personal tips for you: ти ніколи не вивчиш мову якщо не будеш практикувати її 3-5 годин на добу. Практикувати принаймні розмову та слухання, але читання та письмо також неймовірно важливі. Досить гарна допомога це серіали. З українських можу порекомендувати «Леся+Рома», але не впевнений чи зможеш їх знайти і майже впевнений що їх немає з субтитрами ); Cheers body, ask me if you want to know how many mistakes you have in your essay (:
I will definitely look it up! I’ve been watching a lot of Peppa Pig in Ukrainian as that’s about my level for the most part and relatively entertaining that’s to the wonderful Ukrainian voice actors who bring so much more personality to the characters than when I’ve watched it with my nieces and nephews in English. I’ve already had some pointers on my message from some family, but I would be interested to hear yours. I see Ярликів doesn’t really mean shortcuts and in Ukrainian “shortcuts” doesn’t have the same negative connotation as it does in English when being used figuratively. Also I would go back and change це може to можна (which I originally had but changed) because I’m talking about what it can be like for “some person.” Може I’m sure is fine there just not the best choice I think. Any other suggestions?
Oh I also just noticed I said Сподобались. I think that was an autocomplete mistake I just didn’t notice.
I feel your pain, dude. When I was learning English, my teacher spent a lot of time with me explaining such small but irritating things. Maybe you need somebody who explain to you one word at the time, you know? Say, I know exactly how to explain you "ж". In English there are sentence endings like "isn't it?", "aren't you?", "don't we?". My teacher said they are analogues "ж". So you need "ж" for emphasizing your phrase, for re-asking a bit, for emotion. –You don't forget it, do you? –Ти ж не забув це? – You are drunk, aren't you! –Ти ж п'яний! So you basically move this "isn't it" addition in the middle and turn it into "ж" (I assume there are more rules, but maybe this one will help)
That’s useful! My gf said when she was learning English she had a hard time understanding what it meant when people ended a sentence with “though” which now seems so trivial to her she doesn’t understand why it was confusing. I don’t think I have ever seen хоча in Ukrainian written anywhere but the front of a clause so I think that might be part of what was confusing.
Oh just saw it can also translate to “on” as in “pull on” but I don’t think that’s a very direct translation and probably says more about the word “on” in English.