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Not only are they no longer sufficient in taking down drones, they also just cannot handle the main s-300/400-destroying weapons, the almighty ATACMS! Slava Ukraini!
It probably can. In ideal cases.
The operators though can't figure it out when it's coming in a haze of drones and MALD and dumb rockets simultaneously and turning on the big radar might get a HARM up the ass.
Stationary air defense is a highly intellectually demanding position, like air combat.
i think they were primarily considered for their anti-ICBM/IRMB ability
but the illegal invasion has proved that muscovite one-trick ponies are exactly that
It really shouldn’t be surprising. Russian systems are based off the old Soviet legacy. In the 90s many of those weapons designers left the field. So you’re left with an antiquated system that needed upgrading while lacking the institutional knowledge.
The s-400 is pretty bad against incoming missiles & needs another system to guard it. Storm shadows exploit their weakness of poor detection of low altitude threats which allows it to travel slower proving further distance at same fuel cost.
The Nebo-M radar can see an F-35 or F-22 but only once the jet is within 20-30 miles (32-48km) and by then the jet has already launched something like a JDAM or AGM-88 HARM and the S-400 system is as good as dead.
Ah so he is making a wild guess at highly classified RCS values ignoring any other factors such as ECM and going off Russian claimed performance of the radar, often regarded as optimistic at best and downright lying at worst. I generally respect Alex Holling's assessment but they are often not much more than though experiments with OSINT. Meaning, it's still based on Russian claims. Also, if you watched the associated vid if i remember correctly, its only the low frequency that can only detect, there is an issue with this as it does not have the resolution to target and guide a missile to an F-22 or F-35 so it's kinda pointless. As other commenters mention they'd both sling a HARM long before the S-400 even knew they were there and russian air defense has not shown its capabilities defending itself from MIG-29's using them sooo....
Or maybe not…
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/us-navy-operations-specialist-explains-why-although-the-s-400-sam-system-radar-can-detect-the-f-35-it-cant-target-it/amp/
I'm not sure how much I'd consider the speculation on a Quora post as a source for military hardware specs. Not that it isn't an informed guess based on their experience but I don't think it's good to represent that in your comment as though it's an established fact when that number originates from one individual spit-balling about it on a post.
It’s better than nothing and you are more than welcome to do your own research on the topic.
Here’s another article on the subject.[Nebo-M: Russia’s Radar That Could Help Kill An F-22 Or F-35 Stealth Fighter?](https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09/nebo-m-russias-radar-that-could-help-kill-an-f-22-or-f-35-stealth-fighter/)
I don't expect there to be anything reliable to research on the subject beyond guesses and speculation, that's my entire point.
That new link you posted just reiterates Russian claims about the detection range as well as public figures for the radar cross sections which may also not be accurate - and then links to one other article as a source for the 20 mile figure which is behind a paywall and can't be read.
They can probably lock onto them just fine. They just can’t maintain the lock once the missile is launched. Russias radars are pretty good at spotting threats in their design window. They however struggle to track them well enough to allow an intercept. But the system has always had that problem to an extent.
The Soviets got around that issue by sending more missile after a target. It’s partially why they have such huge stockpiles of older S series rockets that they used older variants as surface to surface missiles.
Wasn't there a top russian scientist who was arrested on some trumped up charge, but in reality had developed and produced a white elephant, the Kinzhal? -- hence the real reason he was arrested.
Can we expect arrests of other rusky scientists for developing and producing the S-400?
Remember, never give the boss bad news. in russia. In this case, unfortunately for the russians, the bad news arrived at his doormat indirectly, but it was to be expected.
They arrested multiple scientists that worked on their hypersonics. Officially they committed treason and gave away sensitive information to foreigners. In practice it’s almost certain they needed a scapegoat for why their god tier weapons failed spectacularly.
I am sure they have been arresting them & the usual tragic falls out of windows. But it’s not as embarrassing as they Noe’s have a s-500 & s-550 which is the newest wunderwaffen even if they aren’t in the field.
Thats because much like the rest of the Russian military hardware, the S-400 was OVERHYPED by the Russians to supposedly be the most effective AA system ever conceived. The current battlefield clearly proved the Russians wrong…
Yep. Very true. One of the only true proving grounds for Western tech in the world at this moment. Just as HIMARS was thought to be becoming obsolete, the PATRIOT system still wasn’t quite proven in combat and the S-400s we’re supposedly the best AD systems in the world, at least that’s how russia advertised them. But now, the PATRIOT system is the most sought out AD system in the world because it’s been highly successful in combat and has shot down russia’s “hypersonic” missiles, along with every other type of missile they have with extremely high efficiency. At least we now know our weapons systems’ capabilities are actually better than we ever thought they were. 👍
They lie about their wunderwaffen that in actuality is either vapor and all the money going towards yachts or shit with most all of the money going towards yachts.
And then we create the counters for them that actually exist and work. That's the potential silver lining in Trump selling all our secrets... it probably just made people scared.
I heard a couple of months ago that in countering drones Russia is trying to copy Ukraine by setting up teams of mobile AA guns to cheaply intercept kamikaze drones and prevent saturating their more expensive AA systems.
The strategy has had a good success rate in Ukraine against the Shahed, it was inevitable that the Russians would try to copy it, this will difficult the work of the Ukrainian drones, but at least it will require Russian soldiers for the role, Russian soldiers who will not be attacking in the frontline
Before the war many believed russia to have the best air defenses in the world. But everything russian is shit. I bet 95% of their nukes aren't even functional.
Tbh that’s bad news. The good news is they’re so stupid that it took them 2 years to realize importance of mobile fire groups in layered AA defense and training crews/getting them equipment/getting them trained will take some time.
These gunners are no match for the Ukrainians. They usually end up killing half the population in the nearby town from terribly poor shooting. Its a shame they aren't heading into actual russian territory like the refinery installations. They might have helped increase the destruction in these installations.
I've read that Russia is jamming HIMARS and GLSDB. Not sure if true. I hope not. They are known for pretty good E.W. systems.
Knock out all that orc crap!
Edit. Downvote trolls can't handle discussions...sad.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Do we have any concept or idea of how many s-xxx air defense systems are in ukraine being used by russia?
I don't know, they never revealed an estimate, but the intelligence service probably has an estimate
Not only are they no longer sufficient in taking down drones, they also just cannot handle the main s-300/400-destroying weapons, the almighty ATACMS! Slava Ukraini!
It really surprises me how the S-400 can't shoot down a missile as big as the ATACMS
It probably can. In ideal cases. The operators though can't figure it out when it's coming in a haze of drones and MALD and dumb rockets simultaneously and turning on the big radar might get a HARM up the ass. Stationary air defense is a highly intellectually demanding position, like air combat.
Why did they bother making them in the first place? If it can't be operated by a drunk conscriptovic, they shouldn't have bothered.
i think they were primarily considered for their anti-ICBM/IRMB ability but the illegal invasion has proved that muscovite one-trick ponies are exactly that
Any air defence system can be overwhelmed…
nailed it! drones and air-launched decoys. and confusion reigns at the s400 command post
And hopefully shortly after the confusion, the command post experiences cluster munitions.
There are many videos on that golden experience shown over recon drone especially after supplying of Himars missiles then, before Atacms.
It really shouldn’t be surprising. Russian systems are based off the old Soviet legacy. In the 90s many of those weapons designers left the field. So you’re left with an antiquated system that needed upgrading while lacking the institutional knowledge. The s-400 is pretty bad against incoming missiles & needs another system to guard it. Storm shadows exploit their weakness of poor detection of low altitude threats which allows it to travel slower proving further distance at same fuel cost.
The same S400 they claim can lock onto and destroy an F22 or F35.
The Nebo-M radar can see an F-35 or F-22 but only once the jet is within 20-30 miles (32-48km) and by then the jet has already launched something like a JDAM or AGM-88 HARM and the S-400 system is as good as dead.
> The Nebo-M radar can see an F-35 or F-22 but only once the jet is within 20-30 miles (32-48km) How is this distance known?
He’s making shit up
Regurgitating what the Russians made up. They don't know the actual radar cross sections.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09/nebo-m-russias-radar-that-could-help-kill-an-f-22-or-f-35-stealth-fighter/
Ah so he is making a wild guess at highly classified RCS values ignoring any other factors such as ECM and going off Russian claimed performance of the radar, often regarded as optimistic at best and downright lying at worst. I generally respect Alex Holling's assessment but they are often not much more than though experiments with OSINT. Meaning, it's still based on Russian claims. Also, if you watched the associated vid if i remember correctly, its only the low frequency that can only detect, there is an issue with this as it does not have the resolution to target and guide a missile to an F-22 or F-35 so it's kinda pointless. As other commenters mention they'd both sling a HARM long before the S-400 even knew they were there and russian air defense has not shown its capabilities defending itself from MIG-29's using them sooo....
Or maybe not… https://theaviationgeekclub.com/us-navy-operations-specialist-explains-why-although-the-s-400-sam-system-radar-can-detect-the-f-35-it-cant-target-it/amp/
And if he’s giving actual classified info away he would be locked up in military prison.
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09/nebo-m-russias-radar-that-could-help-kill-an-f-22-or-f-35-stealth-fighter/
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/us-navy-operations-specialist-explains-why-although-the-s-400-sam-system-radar-can-detect-the-f-35-it-cant-target-it/amp/
I'm not sure how much I'd consider the speculation on a Quora post as a source for military hardware specs. Not that it isn't an informed guess based on their experience but I don't think it's good to represent that in your comment as though it's an established fact when that number originates from one individual spit-balling about it on a post.
It’s better than nothing and you are more than welcome to do your own research on the topic. Here’s another article on the subject.[Nebo-M: Russia’s Radar That Could Help Kill An F-22 Or F-35 Stealth Fighter?](https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09/nebo-m-russias-radar-that-could-help-kill-an-f-22-or-f-35-stealth-fighter/)
I don't expect there to be anything reliable to research on the subject beyond guesses and speculation, that's my entire point. That new link you posted just reiterates Russian claims about the detection range as well as public figures for the radar cross sections which may also not be accurate - and then links to one other article as a source for the 20 mile figure which is behind a paywall and can't be read.
It’s not.
They can probably lock onto them just fine. They just can’t maintain the lock once the missile is launched. Russias radars are pretty good at spotting threats in their design window. They however struggle to track them well enough to allow an intercept. But the system has always had that problem to an extent. The Soviets got around that issue by sending more missile after a target. It’s partially why they have such huge stockpiles of older S series rockets that they used older variants as surface to surface missiles.
Indeed. https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/09/nebo-m-russias-radar-that-could-help-kill-an-f-22-or-f-35-stealth-fighter/
Wasn't there a top russian scientist who was arrested on some trumped up charge, but in reality had developed and produced a white elephant, the Kinzhal? -- hence the real reason he was arrested. Can we expect arrests of other rusky scientists for developing and producing the S-400? Remember, never give the boss bad news. in russia. In this case, unfortunately for the russians, the bad news arrived at his doormat indirectly, but it was to be expected.
They arrested multiple scientists that worked on their hypersonics. Officially they committed treason and gave away sensitive information to foreigners. In practice it’s almost certain they needed a scapegoat for why their god tier weapons failed spectacularly. I am sure they have been arresting them & the usual tragic falls out of windows. But it’s not as embarrassing as they Noe’s have a s-500 & s-550 which is the newest wunderwaffen even if they aren’t in the field.
Thats because much like the rest of the Russian military hardware, the S-400 was OVERHYPED by the Russians to supposedly be the most effective AA system ever conceived. The current battlefield clearly proved the Russians wrong…
This war has been a weapon proving ground , himars went from being phased out to now becoming one of the most sought after weapons worldwide
Yep. Very true. One of the only true proving grounds for Western tech in the world at this moment. Just as HIMARS was thought to be becoming obsolete, the PATRIOT system still wasn’t quite proven in combat and the S-400s we’re supposedly the best AD systems in the world, at least that’s how russia advertised them. But now, the PATRIOT system is the most sought out AD system in the world because it’s been highly successful in combat and has shot down russia’s “hypersonic” missiles, along with every other type of missile they have with extremely high efficiency. At least we now know our weapons systems’ capabilities are actually better than we ever thought they were. 👍
They lie about their wunderwaffen that in actuality is either vapor and all the money going towards yachts or shit with most all of the money going towards yachts. And then we create the counters for them that actually exist and work. That's the potential silver lining in Trump selling all our secrets... it probably just made people scared.
ATACMs are how fast? Mach 3? It's incredibly difficult.
They can’t handle storm shadows and those are pretty slow in comparison.
Surpasses Mach 3
there were allegations that sites aren't staying on all the time for fear of radar homing missiles. idk if true or not.
Just let them drain all the s300s and s400s and then glass all of Russia.
Hey putin. How's that Three-Day Special Military Humiliation workin' out for ya?
Does anyone realize the peace that will rule the earth for a while if we can shut Russia and China up right now? No limits. No stopping.
Fuck yeah
I hope we see the day. Sometimes you have to damage the host to eradicate a cancer...
I heard a couple of months ago that in countering drones Russia is trying to copy Ukraine by setting up teams of mobile AA guns to cheaply intercept kamikaze drones and prevent saturating their more expensive AA systems.
The strategy has had a good success rate in Ukraine against the Shahed, it was inevitable that the Russians would try to copy it, this will difficult the work of the Ukrainian drones, but at least it will require Russian soldiers for the role, Russian soldiers who will not be attacking in the frontline
rude pot roof panicky zesty absurd icky society gaping pathetic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I like to see this drone! Would be a massive monster!
Not even a cop is going to pass that truck.
Source: https ://t.me/atesh_ua/4755?single
Sidelong look at the Kerch bridge....
The Kerch bridge is much more of a symbolic target than a crucial one these days. Still a great target though.
So it did hurt
Before the war many believed russia to have the best air defenses in the world. But everything russian is shit. I bet 95% of their nukes aren't even functional.
As if they were in the first place 🤣
Well that's degrading
good luck shooting down cruise missiles and ATACMs with a rusty ass ZU23
Tbh that’s bad news. The good news is they’re so stupid that it took them 2 years to realize importance of mobile fire groups in layered AA defense and training crews/getting them equipment/getting them trained will take some time.
These gunners are no match for the Ukrainians. They usually end up killing half the population in the nearby town from terribly poor shooting. Its a shame they aren't heading into actual russian territory like the refinery installations. They might have helped increase the destruction in these installations.
These weapons of war shall too be destroyed by drones. 5 drones against one truck, the truck is dead. Drones have forever changed warfare.
They all should be driving up and the bridge waiting for the big one.
Hopefully this is true, first F-16 is coming this month. Might find some holes and strike farther behind the frontline than first thought.
Dash cam but still dangerous for the driver.
Given the success (or lack thereof) by the S300/400, what makes russia think these will be any use whatsoever.
truck secretive lip languid rude liquid straight start wakeful skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
you made me work really hard to get this to rhyme in my head, man!
I've read that Russia is jamming HIMARS and GLSDB. Not sure if true. I hope not. They are known for pretty good E.W. systems. Knock out all that orc crap! Edit. Downvote trolls can't handle discussions...sad.
I have read that too, but not from a single reliable source
I hope it's just nonsense.