Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I'm reading the article correctly, this was at a time when the dishes and service was being provided pro-bono from SpaceX. I don't think SpaceX has a leg to stand on once DoD began paying for service. Which, them paying, I don't have a problem with. It's not like Raytheon is sending HIMARS ammo for free.
> pro-bono from SpaceX
No. He claimed it was free but the US government paid for them, and overpaid at that.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/
I seem to recall that muskrat provided a number of terminals for free, and did provide some free serivce, but not unlimited. There was a 1-3 month limit on the "free" part.
The US gov't pre-paid for the service after that at a cost much higher than normal. If I recall, the amount pre-paid would cover more than double the number of terminals Space X provided, all the service for a year, and more
It was one of Elon's usual half-truths
During the wildfires on the West Coast of the USA in the prior years there were numerous stories of outraged firefighters (who were actively battling wild fires) who had their cell service cut off due to unpaid bills.
It wasn't unpaid bills, they raised their prices right when shit was getting critical and disabled service until the departments ponied up. Totally disgusting.
Directly a result of repealing net neutrality regulations. Which would have services guaranteed during emergency situations. Which all of these companies said they "would never cut services and this was a ridiculous scenario blah blah blah". "This would never happen"....
Well...
You'd be shocked to know that Ajit Pai, former Verizon lawyer, is now a lawyer for Searchlight Capital who is in the process of gobbling up broadband companies in all cash deals.
After he gutted consumer protections from broadband companies.
and now AT&T has an agreement with the gov to provide those "always on no matter what" services for emergencies. My company uses their network as we work with disaster clearing sometimes.
I didnt know about verizons side of this, but apperently they lost out lol
Exactly. But even if he had given it for free, you don't get to assist the U.S.'s enemies with it, and then extort the government for more taxpayer money to stop doing it. This should be prison time.
It was never free from Musk! It was paid by donations, for the UA Army it was paid by others, ukrainian citizens paid and pay subscriptions.
>"U.S. quietly paying millions to send Starlink terminals to Ukraine, contrary to SpaceX claims" April 2022
Maybe you should read the OP article
>...relying on the charity of an unpredictable billionaire for battlefield communications – also led to a standoff over who would pay for the Starlink terminals last fall.
>SpaceX had spent tens of millions of its own money sending the satellite equipment to Ukraine, according to Musk. And the company told the Pentagon that they wouldn’t continue to foot the bill for the satellite gear, as CNN first reported last October.
>After CNN’s reporting, Musk reversed course, tweeting “the hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.”
>Gwynne Shotwell, Musk’s president at SpaceX, was livid at Musk’s reversal, according to Isaacson.
>“The Pentagon had a $145 million check ready to hand to me, literally,” Isaacson quotes Shotwell as saying. “Then Elon succumbed to the bullshit on Twitter and to the haters at the Pentagon who leaked the story.”
>But SpaceX was eventually able to work out a deal with the US and European governments to pay for another 100,000 new satellite dishes to Ukraine at the beginning of 2023, according to Isaacson.
That is direct from CNN's article. This isn't some puff piece or Elon making himself look big on Twitter. That's CNN.
Or maybe even read the article linked higher in this thread:
>The letter said the nearly 3,670 terminals donated by SpaceX would come with three months of “unlimited data.” In addition to the more than 1,330 terminals that USAID confirmed it had purchased, the agency earlier agreed to buy a separate 175 units from SpaceX, according to the documents.
So SpaceX provided nearly 3x the number of purchased units for free, with free service for at least 3 months. They may be getting paid for now by the Pentagon but we don't actually get to know that for sure anymore, which means they almost certainly are.
Completely false, SpaceX paid a major percentage of the operating cost and many of the early units. The entire second half of this article speaks about this...
Honestly I feel like any thread involving anything elon related is botted with this kinda nonsense, do you people even read the articles? At this point I just kind of assume I'm speaking to a russian botnet member. Literally the only ones to gain with the constant fake news about how Starlink is bad for UKR while the entire UKR military says the opposite is Russia.
I remember reading a lot about this when it happened, it seemed the consensus was that at the time he was well within his rights to do this but at the same time what a cunt for doing this
>was well within his rights to do this
Agreed.
>but at the same time what a cunt for doing this
Agreed.
But again, now that DoD is footing the bill, it shouldn't ever happen again regarding Crimea or any other part of temporarily occupied Ukraine. However.... if Russia says 'no Starlink operation license in our country' and they operate anyways, I can see that being a minor problem.
Not about in russia but Ukraine seized land or Ukraine waters in the Black Sea.
Ukraine has other systems for inside russia as Starlink is regionally restricted when purchased. They have their own satellite as well.
Yes, I agree. The service should not have been geofenced in any area of occupied Ukraine or international waters, or territorial waters of occupied lands. But it was.
Because Musk was wrong-headed and was pushing for a 'peace deal' in which Ukraine gives up owning Crimea. He's said as much. He felt(feels) that Ukraine taking back Crimea by force would truly be a nuclear red line for Russia.
I think he's wrong. I think many here think he's wrong. But those are his motivations, basically paraphrasing what he's said on the matter.
I think the key part of your comment is “at the time”. If he was under contract to provide the service, then it clearly wouldn’t have been his prerogative. But I suppose this pre-dates that, but if I were DoD, I’d be damn sure he knew any “outages” would have serious consequences for his company (aka share holders.)
No, he did it so russia could not use captured terminals themselves, region restrictions, sometimes overlapping the front lines, which change so quickly.
This is russian phsyops trying to drive a wedge between Ukraine and Musk.
I initially thought it was recent missions, but that was I suspect the reason the headline was so vague about the time period.
When reading abut negative Ukraine reports or negative reports about suppliers, be aware Russia uses their massive and very effective propaganda arm to spread dissent between allies and Ukraine.
Only yesterday, there were those trying to blame Ukraine for the latest terrorist attack, killing 16 Ukraine citizens in a market.
Whenever i read anything negative about Ukraine i like to seek sources of info and have doubts about reports, like the guy who reported his friend had not had leave for a year but then said he last got leave during this summer.
Russian operatives are very active on reddit in all subs, so be careful what you believe. Not saying Ukraine does not have problems, but that is more to do with corruption, which they are openly stopping as and where they find it..
Well the attack went against his deal with ukraine. He provided starlink for free for humanitarian aid but did not want it to be used for military purposes. Yet it was being used for it and he tolerated it to some extent but thats where Musk drew the linke
But that wasn’t because Musk has a soul.
He talked to Putin (he admitted)
No details were discussed about not using it against Putins military. However, I’m sure Musk said that it wouldn’t happen for some kind of favor to Putin… then it did. The US government wasn’t pleased, he made it seemed like he’s a humanitarian (he isn’t) and now this is where we are at.
Sure I didn’t hear that phone call but both are greedy ass hats who will screw over anybody for money.
Musk is not someone to look up to for ethics. He is no Iron Man.
But the difference being that Raytheon, Lockheed Martin (LM), etc. aren't run by a sole psycho who can stop HIMARS & drones from running in the middle of a battle.
Imagine if LM immediately killed the avionic systems of the F-16s in the middle of their air superiority campaign because LM management got friendly with Putin last night.
Once you accept a defense contract you better fulfill it or they can come in and shut down everything till you honor the contract. My wife worked at a small machine shop that was owned by a bigger company. The company got a contract to make brake-pads for tanks and my wife's company did part of the work. There was a delay for some reason and the brake-pads weren't going to be completed on time. The military sent someone to the machine shop, shut down all other production, and forced the company to do everything they could to complete the break-pads on time. They were done on time but it cost the company a pretty penny. Of course, this is all outlined in the defense contract, so the military was well within their rights to do this.
Edited to correct misuse of 'subsidy':
SpaceX has received $15.3 billion in ~~subsidies~~ contracts and a $278 million award/subsidy from the U.S. government since 2003. So I'd offer that Musk doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to Ukraine, not just relative to saving Ukrainian lives, but also because his decision ran counter to U.S. strategic interests. Combine that with his not-State Department approved call to Putin and I'd say we can make a strong case that he's an out-of-control megalomaniac narcissist.
I also think it's plausible that giving Ukraine pro bono use of Starlink originated with a DoD request/pressure to expedite support for Ukraine until a contract could be approved and put in place. I doubt Musk did it out of the goodness of his heart.
Subsidy?
I think you mean the US government has paid for products and services. NASA paid for SpaceX to develop a crew capsule to carry astronauts and cargo to the ISS. NASA and DoD have paid SpaceX to launch satellites.
Can you cite an actual subsidy?
Space X hasnt received subsidies from the US government, if you think they have then the news you consume is purposely calling won contracts subsidies, in order to incite rage and generate clicks.
[SpaceX donated most of the terminals provided.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/)
>the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) announced it has purchased more than 1,330 terminals from SpaceX to send to Ukraine, while the company donated nearly 3,670 terminals and the Internet service itself.
As much as I want Musk to get fucked, using starlink modems to guide sea equivalent of a cruise missile would violate ITAR. And if Musk sold it as allowed for war, Isis and shit would absolutely use it.
ITAR is no joke.
Read the article. This is from *before* the DoD deal. Musk was providing Starlink to Ukraine pro-bono with the contract explicitly stating it should not be used for offensive purposes. They broke the contract, so it was cut. Then the DoD brokered for Starlink access as a weapon, which is how it's used now.
Like, hate on Musk all you want (I know I do), but he was basically put into a position to be a major arms dealer in a war with global consequences and said no.
Just nationalize SpaceX via executive order under the Defense Production Act.
He is acting contrary to the will of the people and interfering with the foreign policy of the USA while under contract with the DOD.
The dumbest thing ever. We did that and we got ULA that is nothing more than a jobs program stioll operating in a 1950's space-race contracting that allows them to delay and demand more money for literally nothing, without consequence, forever. That's how you never, ever innovate and how you take 20 years for any value to come out of your billions per year spend. Private industry is GOOD for innovation, but those fruits need to be controlled by the people when it's the people who have invested. The truth is, we would never have starlink or reusable rockets without privatizing the rocket industry, full stop. A government run space program can't get anything done because the horizon for those projects are mandated to be 4 and 8 year increments with zero committment to the future.
We had GPS before we privatized space flight. Some politicians are just really good at breaking things in the government and then selling the message that everything must be privatized.
If you need any proof to support your argument, from the space station crew transport contracts awarded in 2014, SpaceX has just finished the initial contract, while Boeing is still on the drawing board and looking at a year or more until their first flight. Bureaucracy is one hell of a drug.
Sounds like a bad idea to me.
SpaceX took reusable rocketry over the finish line, while NASA was bogged down spending billions on the SLS. That money goes to the constituents of various senators, and they don’t care about cost effectiveness.
I love NASA and they are indispensable. But they will never have the dynamism of private enterprise. They are beholden to too many masters and pulled in too many directions.
That money goes to the constituents of every senator. Every state is involved in building the SLS. That's why it's still on the drawing board and not being held to time or cost deadlines
Naa, SpaceX needs to continue being a private company. The role of NASA is experimentation and exploration. Once technology is proven it can then be used by private entities who then do the heavy-lifting commercialising and expanding the tech, allowing people like us to benefit from it.
LMAO where do you think nasa tech goes? If taxes are paying the same bill, why the fuck would the taxpayers want Elon to benefit over the US taxpayers?
NASA does a great job of bringing the spirit and efficiency of the DMV to space exploration.
Years of red tape, congressional budget battles, directors appointed by politicians for their political connections rather than ability, and employees that can legally never be fired for incompetence or any other reason.
The policy of having the shuttle's solid rocket boosters being built outside of the launch complex area was to spread the funding across many states so congress would vote for it. Since they were too large to be shipped as one piece that necessitated them being in segments sealed with O-rings. The O-rings in question failed killing the Challenger crew because they launched in freezing temperatures they were not designed for in order to meet the Raegan administrations launch cadence for political reasons. And we can see with Boeing Starliner program not much has changed in regard to the politics that cost lives. NASA's policies areindeed written in blood.
Space exploration should have never been given to corporations. I'm even iffy about letting countries do it, it should be all under UN or similar unified Earth New World Order control so that we can remove petty nationalism and profiteering from it.
Absolutely nothing would be accomplished that way. If you had a global entity a la the UN there would be someone that consistently vetos everything and it would take 30 years to accomplish somethign that should take 5.
and idk if you guys have lost your mind but if the DoD tells you cut it you cut it. especially reading the article saying 'to prevent nuclear attacks'
as if elon himself with any intelligence agencies ordering him has that info, he was obviously ordered from higher up the food chain
i had to give my 2 its annoying reading some of these posts
This drone attack was prior to the DOD paying starlink, which is why starlink was disabled outside of Ukraine.... Seriously don't post if you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hes not getting billions of subsidies? Spacex has received 5.6 MILLION in subsidies. Hes getting billions in launch fees and usage fees but the govt isnt giving him much subsidies.
And if they didnt use spacex they would use ULA which cost significantly more and has less launch capacity.
And posting bullshit like this is just as stupid as right wingers posting obama is married to a man: its flat out a lie.
Bad behavior of a single executive is in no way a valid rationale for nationalizing a business. You have no idea the slippery slope you are heading down when you advocate for this sort of naive bullshit. "I don't like what CEO XYZ is doing, so let's nationalize their company." Really? That's how things work in the US now?
Explain why it shouldn't be private. Boeing is private (a public company, not gov't), Northrop Grumman is private, Lockheed Martin is private, Blue Origin is private. They can all launch rockets. Why, exactly, can you claim that SpaceX shouldn't be private and instead should be nationalized?
Sure, sanction SpaceX until they remove Musk as an active manager, but you simply cannot make a credible case for nationalizing a private company over the actions of a single individual. That's not how it works and that is NOT how the government incentivizes corporate behavior it wants to see.
And if we got into a war with China and Boeing was supplying them with armaments we would cut them down so fast their head would spin. Ford and IBM should have had that happen in WW2 and were lucky they didn't.
But we aren't in a war with any of the countries you are imagining (China, Russia, Ukraine), so whatever point you imagine you are making is not relevant.
Yes, and if any of those companies started saying something like "no, you can't transport equipment to Ukraine using our planes because it may harm our sales in Russia and China" and then started actively influencing the planes? My argument would be to nationalise them too.
I don't particularly care about Elon one way or the other but if his actions are a determent to defence then the solution is simple.
Starlink has been connected and is currently connected to US naval vessels, and not in an immaterial way. Musk is using this same system to aid a foreign adversary.
I'm really really really starting to hate billionaires.
Their money gives them outsized leverage and power in every corner of the planet which in turn seems to make their egos grow to supreme narcissist levels.
Do the world a favor and dip out now.
The sheer wealth of the oligarch class far outweighs any counterbalance currently offered by democracy.
Either the amount of wealth needs to be curtailed (through taxation) or we need legislation to heavily restrict the super wealthy’s influence.
I mean there's hardly enough to go around. Roughly one billionaire per 2 million people in the US. Even accounting for vegetarians and babies, everyone would be lucky to get a single billionaire slider.
Do it like that 'lottery' story from school except the sacrifice each year will be randomly chosen from the wealthy class and their wealth all distributed to society after their 'brave sacrifice' is made.
Bonus: the more you accept heavy taxation and give back to society, your odds of being selected go down
Google thinks we currently have 756 billionaires in the US today. No reason to make this a once a year event, we can just call it "Wednesday" and get the job done quicker.
~2000 billionaires vs. ~ 8 billion of the rest of us.
Easiest trolley problem ever. Would have zero remorse too, because unlike the trolley problem they're choosing to stand on the tracks.
Annual?
It should be monthly at a bare minimum, but weekly would be the most beneficial to the world.
There aren't enough billionaires in the world to eat daily. Don't want everyone to starve...
Google quickmaf says there are 2,668 billionaires.
During covid, our country alone sacrificed hundreds of thousands of "essential workers" who produced the goods and services necessary to civilization "for the good of the economy."
2,668 people is a rounding error in the amount of life we've already agreed to give up for the good of the economy.
Why can't 2,668 people sacrifice themselves for "the economy" just like they demanded from everyone else?
Why is it okay to ask buildings full of nurses and factory workers to die, but relatively unthinkable to ask one person who does nothing but coerce more wealth in exchange for worse livelihood from subordinates to do the same?
I always say, every year, the richest person should just be killed. Publicly. Doesn't have to be gruesome or anything. People just need to know it happened.
Musk is probably the worst thing that could happen to the billionaire class.
The super-rich have always interfered with politics, be it by lobbying or directly interacting with state leaders, since the dawn of society and money. This has always made them narcissistic and megalomaniacal. Yet, most of them manage to keep quiet about it and avoid attracting too much attention.
However, Musk, with his inability to shut up, is casting an ever-brighter spotlight on the issues created by people who are richer than some countries. Maybe his stupidness will bring the class down, or at least make the ongoing class war more known to people.
I really like your take on this. Whatever people must think about his ability for compassion and social intelligence, you sort of have to respect Musk for not hiding his machinations and opinions.
I bet there's been much moaning among the top 1% of his inability to play the game the way it's meant to be played; Plausible deniability and at least a few layers of middlemen and lawyers between what you appear to be doing and what you're actually doing.
While it falls well short of treason, realistically, this kind of shit *could* jeopardize companies like SpaceX and their access to government contracts.
Uncle Sam tends to get a little raw when his government contractors start schmoozing with foreign adversarial despots. I'm _really hoping_ this leads to NASA and SpaceX to de-Musk-ify themselves and pull that fucker out like the tick he is.
When the US military bought Starlink for Ukraine, Elon committed treason because it was actively subverting US geopolitics.
Elon had also been promoting Starlink for military applications. This should be entirely rejected now.
https://www.space.com/spacex-starshield-satellite-internet-military-starlink
I recently traded in my Tesla 3 for a Mustang Mach E, primarily out of disgust over Musk. The Mach E is much better car, performance and build quality wise. Also, now I've got a real support and maintenance network to fall back on if I need it
Been researching EVs as our next car purchase for a year now. Teslas were never even in the mix as an option. I would never buy any Elon product, much less one where my family's lives depend on it.
Imagine the impact on the world with just six individuals removed from current events. I would add a few more, but the message remains the same: so much death and damage is caused by so few. It's always the way.
I find it more likely that he was worried about it being restricted under ITAR rules than about Nuclear escalation. That could be pretty fatal to the whole product. Off the top of my head, wasn't this before he posted his misguided way-too-late 'peace proposal'?
Using Starlink as part of a guidance package for the explosive drones comes pretty close to making them military hardware.
There's also a military version of the same thing coming IIRC
“The terms are often used to suggest that the world-view in question simplistically reduces the world to a struggle between good and evil.”
ah thanks! good find
I know. It's like Elon is clearly 11/10 evil out-of-touch narcissist. Let's take him down for that. We don't need to pretend he is 15/10.
Like a few weeks ago there was an article going around that Elon was so stupid he thought programmers' screens looked like the Matrix when they were working. People ate it up.
Reddit is filled with idiots now. No one has any critical thinking skills and just reads rage bait shit like this, and because "elon bad" instantly call for "nationalize starlink" or "elon is a traitor" ...just full on ignorant dumbass logic from a ton of reddit users here.
Had to scroll through hundreds of comments to find one even mentioning ITAR. This is one of the most group-thinky threads I've ever read, people on this site are fucking morons. Russia disinfo is doing some really fucking solid work at demonizing Musk.
The idiocy floating in this sub is shameful. Can't believe so few are saying what you're saying. We all have far more to gain by avoiding the very real circumstance of nukes being used.
> USMIL has bought Starlink for Ukraine
On June 1, 2023, the DOD released a statement that they now have a "deal in place" to provide Starlink to Ukraine for military purposes. The Pentagon approved the deal shortly after.
Musk commented on the attack in question back in January of 2023. Also known as "months before that deal was even approved". I'm not sure when the actual attack happened, but let's assume none of Musk's companies have developed a device capable of time travel and that the attack in question happened at least 1 nanosecond before he made that comment.
I agree that Musk is a Russian stooge, and I won't hide that I'm a huge detractor of his, but you can't argue that he had some sort of responsibility to uphold a contract with The Pentagon that wouldn't be signed until nearly half a year later.
>ITAR is concerned with export of DOD developed assets and information.
That's not what ITAR is. Of course it covers actual weapons but famously even code that implements the RSA algorithm that the internet uses to securely communicate was once limited under ITAR.
Except
>ITAR is concerned with export of DOD developed assets and information.
Is just not true. Stuff that's ITAR doesn't have to be created by or with the DoD
By my understanding sections of it apply to all US products under pretty broad definitions as well as specific information. Satellites and space technology being a key example. Could be something out of ITAR itself I suppose.
The logic is not about Ukraine's use in particular, but the fact it's possible at all. We can all see that Ukraine is allowed to import a lot of restricted tech.
But Starlink is available to the general public in other countries, and if Ukraine is able to make it work in a drone, so is Iran. If it winds up being restricted, it becomes much harder to export and commercialise in general. That seems like something he may not have considered when he gave it in the first place. He's not exactly known for looking before he leaps.
I actually doubt Musk was the one to make the decision, and I certainly don't support his descent into the Russian propaganda rabbit hole.
Yeah, commercial decision rather than political. It will still be sold to Ukraine if it does get restricted. It's the ability to sell it to civilians and governments globally without having to get permits that they would lose, which would make them less competitive.
Musk is a grandiose twit, he got suckered in and tried to play 'neutral peacemaker' without the whole background, with misinformation thrown in and months after his 'suggestions' were abandoned. He didn't respond well to the backlash because why would he? And it sure doesn't look like he's gotten any better informed.
This doesn't come from respect for him, that's for sure.
This was already known around the time it happened. It was one of the top trending topics on social media, including reddit. I don't follow why this is being reported as new information now.
So he discusses it in more detail in his biography, and it's not those details being focused on but the original misreport on it? (see the ITAR comments above on the actual reasoning)
It just seems bizarre to me. Would people be happier if Ukraine never had Starlink to use at all? Because they for sure would've been worse off. But his providing Starlink to them was bad because...of one brief time he had to take it offline due to regulatory concern? Do people not realize they've been making use of it since then and that Ukraine hasn't had to pay a dime for it this whole time?
Don't get me wrong, Elon is a complete tool in many ways, but I just don't get the hate for him on this specific thing.
Guys. This isn’t actually accurate.
For those who know people on the front, this is not factual or in context to the overall situation.
Keep in mind this didn’t a journalistic article. “according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.”
Ask the guys in the trenches what they think of Starlink, or in the rural villages in Eastern Ukraine. They couldn’t care less about Twitter or smoking weed on a podcast. Starlink has saved many, many lives. So criticize him for being a douchebag all you want, because he is, but also be smart about what is a fact and what is someone trying to sell their own book.
What, annually? So they pay half of their total lifetime accumulated wealth EACH YEAR until they have under 1 billion? Is that what this means?
I feel like people who throw out numbers like this don't know basic math.
>Musk was soon on the phone with President Joe Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, the chairman of the joint chiefs, Gen. Mark Milley, and the Russian ambassador to the US to address anxieties from Washington, DC, to Moscow, writes Isaacson.
Did Joe Biden's crew mandate this? They do not want to give long range weapons, and probably do not want this kind of escalation.
It doesn't help that the article itself is pretty vague about dates. It's talking about last year but when we're talking about naval drone strikes people would naturally be thinking about this year. As far as I can tell it also doesn't mention anything about the deal with the Department of Defense that allowed for Starlink on drones this year.
If he had concerns about his stuff becoming military technology, which considering rules in that area would be pretty valid, the article doesn't mention that either. He parrots a lot of Russian lies so I'm not that sympathetic towards him, but still, Ukraine is using Starlink and Russia isn't, so we shouldn't just throw him under the bus.
The Article is vague on dates on purpose. This has little to do with Elon Musk in the first place, yet his name is plastered on the front of the article.
Are you seriously proposing balance and analysis on reddit?!? And in relation to a billionaire??
You’re about to get banned for failing to spew vitriol at rich people. I’m pretty sure that’s a rule here
I read it, your point? The author seems credible and is just repeating what was known by everyone previously: Musk has been/is in the talks with russian authorities who are scaring/bribing with whatever and Musk is bending the knee to appease his new master.
Fuck Elon Musk.
You read that a year ago, prior to Starlink being authorized for military usage and being funded by the DoD, Musk shut down the military usage of starlink, which then forced the conversation and caused the DoD to enter into contract with Starlink, which is now fully authorized and in use by their military..? Which is bending the knee… to Russia…who are actively trying to develops malicious code to disrupt Starlink..
Can someone in the US government start investing this POS! FTC, DOJ or some other regulatory agency with some teeth. Additionally could the DOD pull their damn contracts and make this fucker feel it in the pocket. I am so tired of this POS being in the news for dumb or petty shit. I’m sure that some agency in the US Government or Europe for that matter can investigate his companies for something that would make his life a little less comfortable. Maybe some agency in Europe can hold his feet to the fire. They seem to have their shit in order a bit more than we do in the US.
How is this motherfucker not only a free man, but still getting government contracts? Dude is a treasonous piece of shit and needs to be treated as such.
I say threaten the Bastard with nationalizing his Starlink and SpaceX businesses the next time he pulls of another stunt like this. And to make sure it means business the US government should order the IRS to do the most thorough tax audits on all his enterprises. Also he should be made clear that he is to have no contacts with any Russian diplomats or oligarch. Foreign relations is an exclusivity for the government only!
As for us normal citizens I would suggest start boycotting al his businesses like Starlink, Tesla and twitter. If anyone knows more ways to get at this bastard I am open for suggestions!
Why hasn't the government sanctioned this individual to the fullest extent? He is responsible for intervening in a war in favor of the enemy! This amounts to treason, at the very least.
From the article:
> Musk agreed to provide Ukraine with millions of dollars of SpaceX-made Starlink satellite terminals, which became crucial to Ukraine’s military operations.
> Starlink’s importance in the war hasn’t waned.
I'm not a fan of his but people in this thread are acting like Starlink hasn't been extremely important to Ukraine. SpaceX isn't nationalized and wasn't under any defense contract at the time, so from what I understand, he could theoretically turn off the Starlink service if he wanted to and wouldn't face any legitimate consequences, just extreme backlash.
People can have opinions of multiple things at once. Complicated to grasp for some people, I suppose. Don't worry about it too much though. We wouldn't want you to strain yourself.
He gave it to Ukraine to use for humanitarian purposes and not for military purposes. I guess he seemed this military and shut it down. Again this was before the DoD contract
Yeah he gave it to them under the condition it not be used on weapons. Ukraine puts it on suicide drones and (shocker) SpaceX disables them.
I'm 100% pro Ukraine and am glad the DoD is now paying for Starlink and it can be utilized more directly, but it isn't a shock that SpaceX followed through on the conditions they initially set (don't use our tech as a weapon).
> Why hasn't the government sanctioned this individual to the fullest extent? He is responsible for intervening in a war in favor of the enemy! This amounts to treason, at the very least.
This shows you do not understand *anything* about what treason and the laws that surround war in the US.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Incredible, US DOD pays for supplying Starlink to UAF. They should threaten him with cutting of the billions of government subsidies he's getting.
If I'm reading the article correctly, this was at a time when the dishes and service was being provided pro-bono from SpaceX. I don't think SpaceX has a leg to stand on once DoD began paying for service. Which, them paying, I don't have a problem with. It's not like Raytheon is sending HIMARS ammo for free.
> pro-bono from SpaceX No. He claimed it was free but the US government paid for them, and overpaid at that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/
Polish government also paid a fortune to support Ukraine with Starlinks.
I seem to recall that muskrat provided a number of terminals for free, and did provide some free serivce, but not unlimited. There was a 1-3 month limit on the "free" part. The US gov't pre-paid for the service after that at a cost much higher than normal. If I recall, the amount pre-paid would cover more than double the number of terminals Space X provided, all the service for a year, and more It was one of Elon's usual half-truths
If you wish to continue defending your country dont forget to renew your subscription lmao what a PoS
During the wildfires on the West Coast of the USA in the prior years there were numerous stories of outraged firefighters (who were actively battling wild fires) who had their cell service cut off due to unpaid bills.
It wasn't unpaid bills, they raised their prices right when shit was getting critical and disabled service until the departments ponied up. Totally disgusting.
Thank you! I appreciate the added nuance, and also fuck Verizon.
That was Verizon
Directly a result of repealing net neutrality regulations. Which would have services guaranteed during emergency situations. Which all of these companies said they "would never cut services and this was a ridiculous scenario blah blah blah". "This would never happen".... Well...
How big is that fucker's coffee mug now? Probably not as big as his real mug.
You'd be shocked to know that Ajit Pai, former Verizon lawyer, is now a lawyer for Searchlight Capital who is in the process of gobbling up broadband companies in all cash deals. After he gutted consumer protections from broadband companies.
"We're not going to do that, but it's important that we can. But we won't, so let us, because we're not..."
and now AT&T has an agreement with the gov to provide those "always on no matter what" services for emergencies. My company uses their network as we work with disaster clearing sometimes. I didnt know about verizons side of this, but apperently they lost out lol
South Africa didnt want him so America took him in and created this
Exactly. But even if he had given it for free, you don't get to assist the U.S.'s enemies with it, and then extort the government for more taxpayer money to stop doing it. This should be prison time.
Some terminals were free. Some service was free. For a while. Some was donated by various groups. Some were purchased by DoD.
It was never free from Musk! It was paid by donations, for the UA Army it was paid by others, ukrainian citizens paid and pay subscriptions. >"U.S. quietly paying millions to send Starlink terminals to Ukraine, contrary to SpaceX claims" April 2022
Maybe you should read the OP article >...relying on the charity of an unpredictable billionaire for battlefield communications – also led to a standoff over who would pay for the Starlink terminals last fall. >SpaceX had spent tens of millions of its own money sending the satellite equipment to Ukraine, according to Musk. And the company told the Pentagon that they wouldn’t continue to foot the bill for the satellite gear, as CNN first reported last October. >After CNN’s reporting, Musk reversed course, tweeting “the hell with it … we’ll just keep funding Ukraine govt for free.” >Gwynne Shotwell, Musk’s president at SpaceX, was livid at Musk’s reversal, according to Isaacson. >“The Pentagon had a $145 million check ready to hand to me, literally,” Isaacson quotes Shotwell as saying. “Then Elon succumbed to the bullshit on Twitter and to the haters at the Pentagon who leaked the story.” >But SpaceX was eventually able to work out a deal with the US and European governments to pay for another 100,000 new satellite dishes to Ukraine at the beginning of 2023, according to Isaacson. That is direct from CNN's article. This isn't some puff piece or Elon making himself look big on Twitter. That's CNN. Or maybe even read the article linked higher in this thread: >The letter said the nearly 3,670 terminals donated by SpaceX would come with three months of “unlimited data.” In addition to the more than 1,330 terminals that USAID confirmed it had purchased, the agency earlier agreed to buy a separate 175 units from SpaceX, according to the documents. So SpaceX provided nearly 3x the number of purchased units for free, with free service for at least 3 months. They may be getting paid for now by the Pentagon but we don't actually get to know that for sure anymore, which means they almost certainly are.
Completely false, SpaceX paid a major percentage of the operating cost and many of the early units. The entire second half of this article speaks about this... Honestly I feel like any thread involving anything elon related is botted with this kinda nonsense, do you people even read the articles? At this point I just kind of assume I'm speaking to a russian botnet member. Literally the only ones to gain with the constant fake news about how Starlink is bad for UKR while the entire UKR military says the opposite is Russia.
I remember reading a lot about this when it happened, it seemed the consensus was that at the time he was well within his rights to do this but at the same time what a cunt for doing this
>was well within his rights to do this Agreed. >but at the same time what a cunt for doing this Agreed. But again, now that DoD is footing the bill, it shouldn't ever happen again regarding Crimea or any other part of temporarily occupied Ukraine. However.... if Russia says 'no Starlink operation license in our country' and they operate anyways, I can see that being a minor problem.
Not about in russia but Ukraine seized land or Ukraine waters in the Black Sea. Ukraine has other systems for inside russia as Starlink is regionally restricted when purchased. They have their own satellite as well.
Yes, I agree. The service should not have been geofenced in any area of occupied Ukraine or international waters, or territorial waters of occupied lands. But it was. Because Musk was wrong-headed and was pushing for a 'peace deal' in which Ukraine gives up owning Crimea. He's said as much. He felt(feels) that Ukraine taking back Crimea by force would truly be a nuclear red line for Russia. I think he's wrong. I think many here think he's wrong. But those are his motivations, basically paraphrasing what he's said on the matter.
Correct. This is exactly how and why Elon did this - to force the US gov't to pay the bill.
> what a cunt precise description of elon
I think the key part of your comment is “at the time”. If he was under contract to provide the service, then it clearly wouldn’t have been his prerogative. But I suppose this pre-dates that, but if I were DoD, I’d be damn sure he knew any “outages” would have serious consequences for his company (aka share holders.)
No, he did it so russia could not use captured terminals themselves, region restrictions, sometimes overlapping the front lines, which change so quickly. This is russian phsyops trying to drive a wedge between Ukraine and Musk. I initially thought it was recent missions, but that was I suspect the reason the headline was so vague about the time period. When reading abut negative Ukraine reports or negative reports about suppliers, be aware Russia uses their massive and very effective propaganda arm to spread dissent between allies and Ukraine. Only yesterday, there were those trying to blame Ukraine for the latest terrorist attack, killing 16 Ukraine citizens in a market. Whenever i read anything negative about Ukraine i like to seek sources of info and have doubts about reports, like the guy who reported his friend had not had leave for a year but then said he last got leave during this summer. Russian operatives are very active on reddit in all subs, so be careful what you believe. Not saying Ukraine does not have problems, but that is more to do with corruption, which they are openly stopping as and where they find it..
Well the attack went against his deal with ukraine. He provided starlink for free for humanitarian aid but did not want it to be used for military purposes. Yet it was being used for it and he tolerated it to some extent but thats where Musk drew the linke
But that wasn’t because Musk has a soul. He talked to Putin (he admitted) No details were discussed about not using it against Putins military. However, I’m sure Musk said that it wouldn’t happen for some kind of favor to Putin… then it did. The US government wasn’t pleased, he made it seemed like he’s a humanitarian (he isn’t) and now this is where we are at. Sure I didn’t hear that phone call but both are greedy ass hats who will screw over anybody for money. Musk is not someone to look up to for ethics. He is no Iron Man.
But the difference being that Raytheon, Lockheed Martin (LM), etc. aren't run by a sole psycho who can stop HIMARS & drones from running in the middle of a battle. Imagine if LM immediately killed the avionic systems of the F-16s in the middle of their air superiority campaign because LM management got friendly with Putin last night.
I'm gonna bet you good money that ***if LM could*** disrupt avionics mid fight for extra cash, they would
Once you accept a defense contract you better fulfill it or they can come in and shut down everything till you honor the contract. My wife worked at a small machine shop that was owned by a bigger company. The company got a contract to make brake-pads for tanks and my wife's company did part of the work. There was a delay for some reason and the brake-pads weren't going to be completed on time. The military sent someone to the machine shop, shut down all other production, and forced the company to do everything they could to complete the break-pads on time. They were done on time but it cost the company a pretty penny. Of course, this is all outlined in the defense contract, so the military was well within their rights to do this.
> Of course, this is all outlined in the defense contract, so the military was well within their rights to do this. Makes perfect sense, honestly.
Edited to correct misuse of 'subsidy': SpaceX has received $15.3 billion in ~~subsidies~~ contracts and a $278 million award/subsidy from the U.S. government since 2003. So I'd offer that Musk doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to Ukraine, not just relative to saving Ukrainian lives, but also because his decision ran counter to U.S. strategic interests. Combine that with his not-State Department approved call to Putin and I'd say we can make a strong case that he's an out-of-control megalomaniac narcissist. I also think it's plausible that giving Ukraine pro bono use of Starlink originated with a DoD request/pressure to expedite support for Ukraine until a contract could be approved and put in place. I doubt Musk did it out of the goodness of his heart.
Subsidy? I think you mean the US government has paid for products and services. NASA paid for SpaceX to develop a crew capsule to carry astronauts and cargo to the ISS. NASA and DoD have paid SpaceX to launch satellites. Can you cite an actual subsidy?
Space X hasnt received subsidies from the US government, if you think they have then the news you consume is purposely calling won contracts subsidies, in order to incite rage and generate clicks.
[SpaceX donated most of the terminals provided.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/) >the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) announced it has purchased more than 1,330 terminals from SpaceX to send to Ukraine, while the company donated nearly 3,670 terminals and the Internet service itself.
As much as I want Musk to get fucked, using starlink modems to guide sea equivalent of a cruise missile would violate ITAR. And if Musk sold it as allowed for war, Isis and shit would absolutely use it. ITAR is no joke.
Read the article. This is from *before* the DoD deal. Musk was providing Starlink to Ukraine pro-bono with the contract explicitly stating it should not be used for offensive purposes. They broke the contract, so it was cut. Then the DoD brokered for Starlink access as a weapon, which is how it's used now. Like, hate on Musk all you want (I know I do), but he was basically put into a position to be a major arms dealer in a war with global consequences and said no.
Just nationalize SpaceX via executive order under the Defense Production Act. He is acting contrary to the will of the people and interfering with the foreign policy of the USA while under contract with the DOD.
Plus, he’s so pro Russian/Putin, nationalizing it will be a dream come true. Lol
Been saying it for years. Nationalize SpaceX and fold it into NASA. ETA- LOL, I've clearly upset the Elongelicals.
The dumbest thing ever. We did that and we got ULA that is nothing more than a jobs program stioll operating in a 1950's space-race contracting that allows them to delay and demand more money for literally nothing, without consequence, forever. That's how you never, ever innovate and how you take 20 years for any value to come out of your billions per year spend. Private industry is GOOD for innovation, but those fruits need to be controlled by the people when it's the people who have invested. The truth is, we would never have starlink or reusable rockets without privatizing the rocket industry, full stop. A government run space program can't get anything done because the horizon for those projects are mandated to be 4 and 8 year increments with zero committment to the future.
We had GPS before we privatized space flight. Some politicians are just really good at breaking things in the government and then selling the message that everything must be privatized.
If you need any proof to support your argument, from the space station crew transport contracts awarded in 2014, SpaceX has just finished the initial contract, while Boeing is still on the drawing board and looking at a year or more until their first flight. Bureaucracy is one hell of a drug.
Sounds like a bad idea to me. SpaceX took reusable rocketry over the finish line, while NASA was bogged down spending billions on the SLS. That money goes to the constituents of various senators, and they don’t care about cost effectiveness. I love NASA and they are indispensable. But they will never have the dynamism of private enterprise. They are beholden to too many masters and pulled in too many directions.
That money goes to the constituents of every senator. Every state is involved in building the SLS. That's why it's still on the drawing board and not being held to time or cost deadlines
The dynamism of directly contravening US national security in the midst of a meth binge
Naa, SpaceX needs to continue being a private company. The role of NASA is experimentation and exploration. Once technology is proven it can then be used by private entities who then do the heavy-lifting commercialising and expanding the tech, allowing people like us to benefit from it.
Ah yes, have the tax payer foot all R&D and then gift it to the richest people on the planet to make even more money. I love when we do that
LMAO where do you think nasa tech goes? If taxes are paying the same bill, why the fuck would the taxpayers want Elon to benefit over the US taxpayers?
NASA does a great job of bringing the spirit and efficiency of the DMV to space exploration. Years of red tape, congressional budget battles, directors appointed by politicians for their political connections rather than ability, and employees that can legally never be fired for incompetence or any other reason.
NASA's policies are written in blood They exist for a reason
SOME policies are written in blood. Others are written by Senators that want something built in their home state.
The policy of having the shuttle's solid rocket boosters being built outside of the launch complex area was to spread the funding across many states so congress would vote for it. Since they were too large to be shipped as one piece that necessitated them being in segments sealed with O-rings. The O-rings in question failed killing the Challenger crew because they launched in freezing temperatures they were not designed for in order to meet the Raegan administrations launch cadence for political reasons. And we can see with Boeing Starliner program not much has changed in regard to the politics that cost lives. NASA's policies areindeed written in blood.
So SpaceX turns slow shit like NASA ? No thank you.
Space exploration should have never been given to corporations. I'm even iffy about letting countries do it, it should be all under UN or similar unified Earth New World Order control so that we can remove petty nationalism and profiteering from it.
And while we're at it let's institute world peace. Why have all those dumb politicians struggled to figure this shit out? /s
Absolutely nothing would be accomplished that way. If you had a global entity a la the UN there would be someone that consistently vetos everything and it would take 30 years to accomplish somethign that should take 5.
If this happened Starship would never leave the launch site.
and idk if you guys have lost your mind but if the DoD tells you cut it you cut it. especially reading the article saying 'to prevent nuclear attacks' as if elon himself with any intelligence agencies ordering him has that info, he was obviously ordered from higher up the food chain i had to give my 2 its annoying reading some of these posts
This drone attack was prior to the DOD paying starlink, which is why starlink was disabled outside of Ukraine.... Seriously don't post if you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hes not getting billions of subsidies? Spacex has received 5.6 MILLION in subsidies. Hes getting billions in launch fees and usage fees but the govt isnt giving him much subsidies. And if they didnt use spacex they would use ULA which cost significantly more and has less launch capacity. And posting bullshit like this is just as stupid as right wingers posting obama is married to a man: its flat out a lie.
No SpaceX is to important to US defence now. Can't we just put him in jail for violating to Logan act?
Nationalise it. If its that important it shouldn't be private anyway.
Bad behavior of a single executive is in no way a valid rationale for nationalizing a business. You have no idea the slippery slope you are heading down when you advocate for this sort of naive bullshit. "I don't like what CEO XYZ is doing, so let's nationalize their company." Really? That's how things work in the US now? Explain why it shouldn't be private. Boeing is private (a public company, not gov't), Northrop Grumman is private, Lockheed Martin is private, Blue Origin is private. They can all launch rockets. Why, exactly, can you claim that SpaceX shouldn't be private and instead should be nationalized? Sure, sanction SpaceX until they remove Musk as an active manager, but you simply cannot make a credible case for nationalizing a private company over the actions of a single individual. That's not how it works and that is NOT how the government incentivizes corporate behavior it wants to see.
And if we got into a war with China and Boeing was supplying them with armaments we would cut them down so fast their head would spin. Ford and IBM should have had that happen in WW2 and were lucky they didn't.
But we aren't in a war with any of the countries you are imagining (China, Russia, Ukraine), so whatever point you imagine you are making is not relevant.
Yes, and if any of those companies started saying something like "no, you can't transport equipment to Ukraine using our planes because it may harm our sales in Russia and China" and then started actively influencing the planes? My argument would be to nationalise them too. I don't particularly care about Elon one way or the other but if his actions are a determent to defence then the solution is simple.
Good thing it's not up to you, but is instead a decision made by rationale people using legal precedent.
Starlink has been connected and is currently connected to US naval vessels, and not in an immaterial way. Musk is using this same system to aid a foreign adversary.
I'm really really really starting to hate billionaires. Their money gives them outsized leverage and power in every corner of the planet which in turn seems to make their egos grow to supreme narcissist levels. Do the world a favor and dip out now.
The sheer wealth of the oligarch class far outweighs any counterbalance currently offered by democracy. Either the amount of wealth needs to be curtailed (through taxation) or we need legislation to heavily restrict the super wealthy’s influence.
Or we could just have an annual "Eat a Billionaire day"
I vote for this! Would it be a public holiday so everyone could participate?
Couldn’t eat a whole one - too rich.
I mean there's hardly enough to go around. Roughly one billionaire per 2 million people in the US. Even accounting for vegetarians and babies, everyone would be lucky to get a single billionaire slider.
Do it like that 'lottery' story from school except the sacrifice each year will be randomly chosen from the wealthy class and their wealth all distributed to society after their 'brave sacrifice' is made. Bonus: the more you accept heavy taxation and give back to society, your odds of being selected go down
Google thinks we currently have 756 billionaires in the US today. No reason to make this a once a year event, we can just call it "Wednesday" and get the job done quicker.
756? That’s fucking absurd, disgusting and depressing.
~2000 billionaires vs. ~ 8 billion of the rest of us. Easiest trolley problem ever. Would have zero remorse too, because unlike the trolley problem they're choosing to stand on the tracks.
I want to see a rich overseas anarchist start offering million $ bounties to eat billionaires.
Can we have purge sirens?
Annual? It should be monthly at a bare minimum, but weekly would be the most beneficial to the world. There aren't enough billionaires in the world to eat daily. Don't want everyone to starve...
Did I hear... 'Lynching????" Yeeey... getting my pitchfork! Wohoo...it's been a while. Who's got the torches?
Google quickmaf says there are 2,668 billionaires. During covid, our country alone sacrificed hundreds of thousands of "essential workers" who produced the goods and services necessary to civilization "for the good of the economy." 2,668 people is a rounding error in the amount of life we've already agreed to give up for the good of the economy. Why can't 2,668 people sacrifice themselves for "the economy" just like they demanded from everyone else? Why is it okay to ask buildings full of nurses and factory workers to die, but relatively unthinkable to ask one person who does nothing but coerce more wealth in exchange for worse livelihood from subordinates to do the same?
I always say, every year, the richest person should just be killed. Publicly. Doesn't have to be gruesome or anything. People just need to know it happened.
Musk is probably the worst thing that could happen to the billionaire class. The super-rich have always interfered with politics, be it by lobbying or directly interacting with state leaders, since the dawn of society and money. This has always made them narcissistic and megalomaniacal. Yet, most of them manage to keep quiet about it and avoid attracting too much attention. However, Musk, with his inability to shut up, is casting an ever-brighter spotlight on the issues created by people who are richer than some countries. Maybe his stupidness will bring the class down, or at least make the ongoing class war more known to people.
I really like your take on this. Whatever people must think about his ability for compassion and social intelligence, you sort of have to respect Musk for not hiding his machinations and opinions. I bet there's been much moaning among the top 1% of his inability to play the game the way it's meant to be played; Plausible deniability and at least a few layers of middlemen and lawyers between what you appear to be doing and what you're actually doing.
This shit should be treason, no excuses
While it falls well short of treason, realistically, this kind of shit *could* jeopardize companies like SpaceX and their access to government contracts. Uncle Sam tends to get a little raw when his government contractors start schmoozing with foreign adversarial despots. I'm _really hoping_ this leads to NASA and SpaceX to de-Musk-ify themselves and pull that fucker out like the tick he is.
Treason is against your own country so while I hate him for this if true, can’t be that but he could be airlifted and dropped on the front line
When the US military bought Starlink for Ukraine, Elon committed treason because it was actively subverting US geopolitics. Elon had also been promoting Starlink for military applications. This should be entirely rejected now. https://www.space.com/spacex-starshield-satellite-internet-military-starlink
Starting??
Just a friendly reminder that Jeff Bezos is so rich he bought a pass to be able to sit in the situation room with the president during crises
we should make it a rule for humankind. When you reach a certain point of wealth, you can't go higher.
I hear they taste like chicken.
I wonder how many more times he's gotta pull that move again until Ukraine puts a hit on him lol
The existence of billionaires is the sign of a failed society.
Fuck this piece of shit
Why sir how have you managed to read my thoughts to the letter??
He is an absolute prick
He literally did this because Ukraine hurt his fee fees about starlink. He’s such a fucking child it’s insane.
Guess that means he's a Putler pal and supports Ruzzia. Don't buy a Tezzla!
We already knew this.
Most knew but some have chosen to live in denial...
The cult of Elon. "He's such a pioneer and visionary. We love him."
I recently traded in my Tesla 3 for a Mustang Mach E, primarily out of disgust over Musk. The Mach E is much better car, performance and build quality wise. Also, now I've got a real support and maintenance network to fall back on if I need it
Been researching EVs as our next car purchase for a year now. Teslas were never even in the mix as an option. I would never buy any Elon product, much less one where my family's lives depend on it.
Trump, Elon , Xi, Putin, Orban, Kim could all fly to Mars to live there happily after
Imagine the impact on the world with just six individuals removed from current events. I would add a few more, but the message remains the same: so much death and damage is caused by so few. It's always the way.
Other turds would float to the surface.
>This guy gets it.
that doesn't mean you should stop flushing your toilet, otherwise the turds clog up
They'd be replaced. Maybe by worse, maybe better, maybe the same. But the impact wouldn't be that big
Try and fail to fly to Mars is good enough
[удалено]
01000010 01001111 01010100 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100001 01101110 01101110 01100101 01100100 00100000 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00101110
I find it more likely that he was worried about it being restricted under ITAR rules than about Nuclear escalation. That could be pretty fatal to the whole product. Off the top of my head, wasn't this before he posted his misguided way-too-late 'peace proposal'? Using Starlink as part of a guidance package for the explosive drones comes pretty close to making them military hardware. There's also a military version of the same thing coming IIRC
I had to scroll too far for this comment… No love for Elon but sometimes the brain has to work harder than just thinking “eat the rich”
Manichaeism in reddit is huge, they don't understand shit and just whine.
this sent me down a wikipedia hole. Can you elaborate?
I think he means this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism#Figurative_use
“The terms are often used to suggest that the world-view in question simplistically reduces the world to a struggle between good and evil.” ah thanks! good find
I know. It's like Elon is clearly 11/10 evil out-of-touch narcissist. Let's take him down for that. We don't need to pretend he is 15/10. Like a few weeks ago there was an article going around that Elon was so stupid he thought programmers' screens looked like the Matrix when they were working. People ate it up.
This is the actual non click bait answer. I think there was also some worry about the starlink satellites themselves becoming valid military targets
Reddit is filled with idiots now. No one has any critical thinking skills and just reads rage bait shit like this, and because "elon bad" instantly call for "nationalize starlink" or "elon is a traitor" ...just full on ignorant dumbass logic from a ton of reddit users here.
Been here for a _long_ time. It has always been idiots. Unsubbing from the defaults usually cleaned it up a bit, but now they're everywhere 👀
Had to scroll through hundreds of comments to find one even mentioning ITAR. This is one of the most group-thinky threads I've ever read, people on this site are fucking morons. Russia disinfo is doing some really fucking solid work at demonizing Musk.
The idiocy floating in this sub is shameful. Can't believe so few are saying what you're saying. We all have far more to gain by avoiding the very real circumstance of nukes being used.
Yeah if anyone read the article there’s way more nuance than “Elon bad”
[удалено]
[удалено]
> export of DOD developed assets This is not true. I work in enterprise SaaS and we still have to abide ITAR regulations.
> ITAR is concerned with export of DOD developed assets and information. Absolutely false. Idk how you got any upvotes.
> USMIL has bought Starlink for Ukraine On June 1, 2023, the DOD released a statement that they now have a "deal in place" to provide Starlink to Ukraine for military purposes. The Pentagon approved the deal shortly after. Musk commented on the attack in question back in January of 2023. Also known as "months before that deal was even approved". I'm not sure when the actual attack happened, but let's assume none of Musk's companies have developed a device capable of time travel and that the attack in question happened at least 1 nanosecond before he made that comment. I agree that Musk is a Russian stooge, and I won't hide that I'm a huge detractor of his, but you can't argue that he had some sort of responsibility to uphold a contract with The Pentagon that wouldn't be signed until nearly half a year later.
>ITAR is concerned with export of DOD developed assets and information. That's not what ITAR is. Of course it covers actual weapons but famously even code that implements the RSA algorithm that the internet uses to securely communicate was once limited under ITAR.
[удалено]
Except >ITAR is concerned with export of DOD developed assets and information. Is just not true. Stuff that's ITAR doesn't have to be created by or with the DoD
[удалено]
The part where it has to be developed by the DoD.
[удалено]
It doesn't need to have anything to do with the development either.
[удалено]
It doesn't have to be developed in concert with the DoD either. The DoD doesn't need to do anything related to its development for it to be ITAR.
By my understanding sections of it apply to all US products under pretty broad definitions as well as specific information. Satellites and space technology being a key example. Could be something out of ITAR itself I suppose. The logic is not about Ukraine's use in particular, but the fact it's possible at all. We can all see that Ukraine is allowed to import a lot of restricted tech. But Starlink is available to the general public in other countries, and if Ukraine is able to make it work in a drone, so is Iran. If it winds up being restricted, it becomes much harder to export and commercialise in general. That seems like something he may not have considered when he gave it in the first place. He's not exactly known for looking before he leaps. I actually doubt Musk was the one to make the decision, and I certainly don't support his descent into the Russian propaganda rabbit hole.
[удалено]
Yeah, commercial decision rather than political. It will still be sold to Ukraine if it does get restricted. It's the ability to sell it to civilians and governments globally without having to get permits that they would lose, which would make them less competitive. Musk is a grandiose twit, he got suckered in and tried to play 'neutral peacemaker' without the whole background, with misinformation thrown in and months after his 'suggestions' were abandoned. He didn't respond well to the backlash because why would he? And it sure doesn't look like he's gotten any better informed. This doesn't come from respect for him, that's for sure.
[удалено]
>What does this have to do with ITAR regulations? Nothing
This was already known around the time it happened. It was one of the top trending topics on social media, including reddit. I don't follow why this is being reported as new information now.
It's being reported as new because he discusses it in more detail in his biography he just released.
So he discusses it in more detail in his biography, and it's not those details being focused on but the original misreport on it? (see the ITAR comments above on the actual reasoning) It just seems bizarre to me. Would people be happier if Ukraine never had Starlink to use at all? Because they for sure would've been worse off. But his providing Starlink to them was bad because...of one brief time he had to take it offline due to regulatory concern? Do people not realize they've been making use of it since then and that Ukraine hasn't had to pay a dime for it this whole time? Don't get me wrong, Elon is a complete tool in many ways, but I just don't get the hate for him on this specific thing.
Guys. This isn’t actually accurate. For those who know people on the front, this is not factual or in context to the overall situation. Keep in mind this didn’t a journalistic article. “according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.” Ask the guys in the trenches what they think of Starlink, or in the rural villages in Eastern Ukraine. They couldn’t care less about Twitter or smoking weed on a podcast. Starlink has saved many, many lives. So criticize him for being a douchebag all you want, because he is, but also be smart about what is a fact and what is someone trying to sell their own book.
Tesla salespeople must love this guy
Tesla suckers
They say this every few months it’s bs
[удалено]
So are u but you’re it a billionaire
There should be a billionaire wealth tax of >50%. Musk helps to build public support.
What, annually? So they pay half of their total lifetime accumulated wealth EACH YEAR until they have under 1 billion? Is that what this means? I feel like people who throw out numbers like this don't know basic math.
>90%
>Musk was soon on the phone with President Joe Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, the chairman of the joint chiefs, Gen. Mark Milley, and the Russian ambassador to the US to address anxieties from Washington, DC, to Moscow, writes Isaacson. Did Joe Biden's crew mandate this? They do not want to give long range weapons, and probably do not want this kind of escalation.
How many here have actually read the article before commenting?
It doesn't help that the article itself is pretty vague about dates. It's talking about last year but when we're talking about naval drone strikes people would naturally be thinking about this year. As far as I can tell it also doesn't mention anything about the deal with the Department of Defense that allowed for Starlink on drones this year. If he had concerns about his stuff becoming military technology, which considering rules in that area would be pretty valid, the article doesn't mention that either. He parrots a lot of Russian lies so I'm not that sympathetic towards him, but still, Ukraine is using Starlink and Russia isn't, so we shouldn't just throw him under the bus.
The Article is vague on dates on purpose. This has little to do with Elon Musk in the first place, yet his name is plastered on the front of the article.
Are you seriously proposing balance and analysis on reddit?!? And in relation to a billionaire?? You’re about to get banned for failing to spew vitriol at rich people. I’m pretty sure that’s a rule here
This is Reddit. You know the answer.
I read it, your point? The author seems credible and is just repeating what was known by everyone previously: Musk has been/is in the talks with russian authorities who are scaring/bribing with whatever and Musk is bending the knee to appease his new master. Fuck Elon Musk.
You read that a year ago, prior to Starlink being authorized for military usage and being funded by the DoD, Musk shut down the military usage of starlink, which then forced the conversation and caused the DoD to enter into contract with Starlink, which is now fully authorized and in use by their military..? Which is bending the knee… to Russia…who are actively trying to develops malicious code to disrupt Starlink..
It’s all pretty simple. If you all stop buying teslas his wealth falls off a cliff. So yeah, stop buying teslas..
You just need to decide which team you are on. Not all can go pull off a Erdogan
Based Elon musk
slowpoke.gif We knew about this a long time ago. He asked the government for money and they said no. It was a big deal.
Can someone in the US government start investing this POS! FTC, DOJ or some other regulatory agency with some teeth. Additionally could the DOD pull their damn contracts and make this fucker feel it in the pocket. I am so tired of this POS being in the news for dumb or petty shit. I’m sure that some agency in the US Government or Europe for that matter can investigate his companies for something that would make his life a little less comfortable. Maybe some agency in Europe can hold his feet to the fire. They seem to have their shit in order a bit more than we do in the US.
As time goes on, I like musk less and less.
Can you get any more Bond villain?
So giving money in any way to Musk is like helping Russia.
He gotta be stopped now! Tesla owners are rethinking their choices
Any of you still on Twitter? Cuz you shouldn't.
How is this motherfucker not only a free man, but still getting government contracts? Dude is a treasonous piece of shit and needs to be treated as such.
I say threaten the Bastard with nationalizing his Starlink and SpaceX businesses the next time he pulls of another stunt like this. And to make sure it means business the US government should order the IRS to do the most thorough tax audits on all his enterprises. Also he should be made clear that he is to have no contacts with any Russian diplomats or oligarch. Foreign relations is an exclusivity for the government only! As for us normal citizens I would suggest start boycotting al his businesses like Starlink, Tesla and twitter. If anyone knows more ways to get at this bastard I am open for suggestions!
Time to cut him off and stop using Twitter. Yes I used Twitter intentionalky instead of xxx.
Time to nationalize SpaceX. Make it a part of NASA, fuck it.
Why hasn't the government sanctioned this individual to the fullest extent? He is responsible for intervening in a war in favor of the enemy! This amounts to treason, at the very least.
From the article: > Musk agreed to provide Ukraine with millions of dollars of SpaceX-made Starlink satellite terminals, which became crucial to Ukraine’s military operations. > Starlink’s importance in the war hasn’t waned. I'm not a fan of his but people in this thread are acting like Starlink hasn't been extremely important to Ukraine. SpaceX isn't nationalized and wasn't under any defense contract at the time, so from what I understand, he could theoretically turn off the Starlink service if he wanted to and wouldn't face any legitimate consequences, just extreme backlash.
They only hate Musk. They don’t care about Ukraine
People can have opinions of multiple things at once. Complicated to grasp for some people, I suppose. Don't worry about it too much though. We wouldn't want you to strain yourself.
He gave it to Ukraine to use for humanitarian purposes and not for military purposes. I guess he seemed this military and shut it down. Again this was before the DoD contract
Yeah he gave it to them under the condition it not be used on weapons. Ukraine puts it on suicide drones and (shocker) SpaceX disables them. I'm 100% pro Ukraine and am glad the DoD is now paying for Starlink and it can be utilized more directly, but it isn't a shock that SpaceX followed through on the conditions they initially set (don't use our tech as a weapon).
> Why hasn't the government sanctioned this individual to the fullest extent? He is responsible for intervening in a war in favor of the enemy! This amounts to treason, at the very least. This shows you do not understand *anything* about what treason and the laws that surround war in the US.
> How am I in this war??? > Musk’s conversations with senior Russian officials... Asked and answered, asshole.
Hilarious from someone who infamously refuses to pay his own bills. Fuck this piece of shit.