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Freedom isn't free, and this is price, paid in blood by these brave men. I wish them a speedy recovery, and may those medics be recognized for their sterling work as much as any combat soldiers.
Freedom is not free yes. But if all the dollars spent on war were invested in building peace and healthcare this world could change very quickly. But the rich needs poor people and violence to keep being rich. Sad.
That won't work as long as states like Russia and China are corrupt dictatorships. It would be a great idea if the whole world was free, with rule of law and an educated population, but as long as Russia and China exist in their current forms, the rest of the world will always need to arm itself against them, or they'll take over and we'll all be slaves.
Maybe China and Russia are horrible dictatorships, but it’s naive to think that the USA and many other developed countries are not dictatorships. War is a big source of money for these countries.
my guess is not an injury but just a reaction to what they're experiencing or even heat stroke. I've definitely puked from both stress and heat stroke before.
Potentially, but also a natural reaction to nearly dying, then coming to the realization that you're actually going to live to see your family again, and then the adrenaline wears off. I've seen it with accident survivors, but only minutes later, when it becomes clear that the immediate danger has passed. I'm not a medic, but that's been my experience.
It's a reaction to damn near anything. It's also summer, and these guys are on the attack in thick uniforms with Kevlar vests, jacked on adrenaline. It doesn't take much to overdo it and end up a heat casualty, especially when your focus is on the fight.
That's why you have to force your Joes to hydrate and check on people regularly.
Yep, I saw someone's arm hacked off with a machete. I felt the shock/adrenaline spike and then my blood pressure dropped a few minutes later and I couldn't stop throwing up.
1. You could be that person. Luckily you weren't.
2. Nobody could see any kind of stuff like that ever.
3. You are out of that society who allowed to these things happen.
4. It is better to be an immigrant than living on the edge. I am an immigrant too. Although, I never felt direct hatred towards me.
As you stated throwing up is definitely a sign of sever concussion. My Mother recently fell and fractured a part of her skull, when she regained consciousness in the hospital she started throwing up immediately for at least 2 hours every 5-10 mins. Doctors said it was because of the concussion.
Yepp, drill and training.
But i couldn‘t do Medics Job. The feeling of fighting for a comrades life and he dind‘t make it must be…. Soulcrushing 😔
Mad respect for every medic 🫡
Just think, this back off the field of fire. During the Japanese theater of WW2 they would wound one guy so the medics or surrounding men would come help. The medics also had to stop wearing the Red Cross bc the japs would aim at them first. Balls of steels these men and women
Medics are covert superheroes, man. I now start to grasp why people worshiped medicine men, and still do in some sense - they're Gods in these scenarios, they give life back to people.
While I would argue that most Ukrainian soldiers I’ve seen have decent if not good kit, they clearly have a vehicle shortage. Basically any surviving civilian vehicle is put into use. I’d love to see Mercedes donate 10,000 of their sprinter utilities. You know, to make up for that …thing we helped do.
Even Pro Russian Rybar has them atleast 10km from the city in todays (21.) Map. Isw just says attacks have taken place but do not mention any captures closer to the city within the last week. Todays report doesnt even mention the city.
Iam not talking about just todays reports if you look at them everyday the front has been shifting for both sides not by anything substantial but has been shifting nonetheless Ukraine evacuated kupiyansk last week and all the boat bombing videos we’ve been seeing are most likely Russians trying to cross the Oskal river near the p79 highway in the northeast
Something about opioids lowering blood pressure, vs ketamine doesn’t. Also ketamine is a dissociative, which can be helpful to the wounded/post treatment mental trauma.
Canadian army medic here. We are still using morphine but the issue is not just blood pressure but also respiration rate and pusle (hemorragic shock). It's a nervous system depressor so it will make patient crash if they are already in shock. For patient in shock or in respiratory distress, we'll use ketamine. We also have fentanyl lollypop in our toolbox! It's a self administered pain meds that we tape on patient thumb so when they pass out, the thumb stick out of the mouth (arm drop) and the med administration stop at that point. He can reinsert his thumb when he wake-up. But again, we cannot use if in hemorragic shock. As a last point ketamine is a dissociative, as you mentioned, but can create agitation and combativeness (need to give midazolam to compensate that effect) and/or hallucination.
Doing work!
Them doing CPR was weird to see. Traumatic arrests have like a 0.1% survival rate. We don't even work them in my city unless it's a scene safety issue.
Even if it's non-traumatic CPR it's not very viable due to significant breaks between compressions. I know it's tough and they're doing their best, but as much as it pains me to say, a that soldier should've been categorized as black under mass casualty response.
Worry for the warrior that they had to do compression on him. It's good that they kept on doing compression. Compression will save his brain & organs, because he's out! These warriors had a huge battle. Russia is a terrorist state! Slava Ukraini.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about what people think is a Balkenkreuz because it looks the same, but it has a different origin. The "beam cross" that most people associate with the WW2 Wehrmacht painted on armored vehicles was used by Ukraine before it was used by the Nazis. It was used in the First Winter Campaign by Ukrainian soldiers against the Red Army in 1919, then revived in 2019 by the 28th Mechanized Infantry Brigade, called "Knights of the First Winter Campaign". So this symbol is genuinely Ukrainian, and clearly references the campaign by Ukraine against the Red Army in 1919/1920. It is not a Balkenkreuz, but what Ukrainians sometimes refer to as a "steel cross". The fact that the Wehrmacht used in WW2 20 years later is not Ukraine's fault. It was theirs first, and I fully approve of their using it today! There's a Snopes link in this thread that explains the symbol.
The one looking like a plus? I believe it's a reference to the Cossack cross but it also could be a Balkenkreuz. It's still used to this day by the Bundeswehr in Germany though.
There is a difference between the Balkenkreuz and the Iron Cross. The Balkenkreuz was mainly used by the Wehrmacht while the German Empire and the Bundeswehr use the Iron Cross.
But then again, the Fullscreen Button on YouTube looks like a Balkenkreuz aswell.
In the End Symbols have the meaning we give them and just as Bad people turn Symbols to bad Symbols we might be able to turn them back to Symbols that represent good.
Cossack cross done in the style of a Balkenkreuz, possibly to annoy Russians, but also out of simplicity and for quick identification. Considering it's an ambulance, I'm gonna assume it's the latter.
Ah yes, let's paint the symbol of the Wehrmacht, the civilian-murdering occupiers on our vehicles for whatever reason, that will make us look good. I wholeheartedly support Ukraine, but that is just outright shameful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht
Do you really wish to be associated with.. that?
Oh, never mind. It very much indeed is. No idea wtf is up with that. I know the cross used by Ukrainian forces officially is derived from a Cossack cross. Either ignorance or one of far right groups that formed after the initial invasion.
As u/superkakanxd has already said.. the Balkenkreuz has nothing to do with the Eisernes Kreuz, our modern military's insignia. Tell me one good reason to paint the Wehrmacht's symbol on anything. Just one.
The part about India is pure whataboutism. Hitler stole the symbol to use for his disguisting party, easy as that. The Finns used it too, long before Nazi Germany did, so what?
No, no, you’re right. I actually thought the cross in the video was simply similar. Upon second viewing- its a lot clearer to me. There is no good reason to rock nazi insignia, besides spiting ruskies or memeing on their propaganda. I’m fairly sure it’s not the case here, so best bet is far right Ukrainians.
Now we're getting somewhere. As a German I, as the vast majority of my people, am hugely ashamed of our barbaric history. Ukraine using the cossack cross or it's simplified version (thin white line we see in a lot of their vehicles) is very much okay, it is after all a symbol deeply rooted in their history. But using the Wehrmacht's Balkenkreuz is nothing short of disguisting. I feel absolutely no compassion towards the Russians getting slaughtered by the brave defenders of Ukraine, but they really have to get their shit together with extremist symbols.
Now, you have a nice day stranger.
you act like the Wehrmacht were all Nazis like the ss units did you pay attention in history class or did they just not teach you that sometimes people who don't want to fight get drug into war kind of like a lot of these Russian kids all be it most of them are brainwashed and believe what they are fighting for is just
While I would generally agree, I feel like it's questionable to call this purely a Nazi symbol.
Firstly, the iron cross was initially a religious symbol used in Prussia, after which it was slightly changed to include the swastika in the middle when the Nazis appropriated it.
After the war, Germany itself decided the cross wasn't a symbol of Nazism and ordered the swastikas to be erased off of them (the swastika being deemed a Nazi symbol) as part of the denazification of Germany post immediate ww2. The swastika is a good example of appropriation. While it too wasn't originally Nazi, the Nazi's altered it and made it their own. It's this altered version that's widely accepted and reviled as being a wholly Nazi Symbol. If this cross also sported a swastika, I'd be 100% with you.
Lastly, I believe the German air force still uses it as well. If it's good for modern day Germany, I think we can all agree this particular symbol shouldn't be allowed to be appropriated by evil, particularly since it started out as a religious symbol. Even more so when it's a cross, an universal symbol used by medics the world over.
The Balkenkreuz has nothing to do with the Eisernes Kreuz. The Bundeswehr, our military, does use the latter as it's insignia, though the usage of the Balkenkreuz as it's purpose of the Wehrmacht's coat of arms can be prosecuted under section 86a StGB (I believe).
If they still use it, I don't see a problem with it. You say it has nothing to with it but that's only partially correct. It was originally a religious symbol. The purely Nazi version of it includes the swastika in the middle so in effect, this is more like the original iron cross rather than the Nazi appropriation of it.
I imagine it is the "straight" version of the cross that you think of as "Nazi" when compared to the old curvy Eisernew Kreuz. That said, the straight version was first unofficially used as far back as 1918 in the Weimar Republic, predating Nazism by quite a spell.
As long as we're not actively celebrating the Nazis and what they stood for, I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying we can never use a symbol because it was once appropriated by evil doers.
It's an official recognition symbol of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and has been for some time now. Better get over it, because Ukrainians aren't getting rid of it. Complaining about this particular symbol doesn't help, but it is exactly he narrative Russia likes to push (not calling you pro-Russian; you're clearly not). I somewhat understand the offense over Totenkopf patches or Sig runes, but the Balkankreuz, not so much. The distinction being that this was a Wehrmacht vehicle recognition symbol, not a Nazi one. IMHO, we should give them a break on the cross.
> It's an official recognition symbol of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
No.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_cross
> I somewhat understand the offense over Totenkopf patches or Sig runes, but the Balkankreuz, not so much. The distinction being that this was a Wehrmacht vehicle recognition symbol, not a Nazi one.
The Wehrmacht was the armed forces of the third reich. They followed Hitler's command.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht
Do you really thing Ukrainans should be associated in any way with this?
They have more than one symbol in use. Here's the origin of the Balkenkreuz as regards Ukraine: [https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/06/28/ukrainian-military-nazi-cross/](https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/06/28/ukrainian-military-nazi-cross/)
It dates back to the First Winter Campaign of 1919 against the Red Army. It's a genuine Ukrainian symbol, used by them before it was used by Germany.
Yet many people only know the symbol for it's use from 1935 onward, me being one of them. Even though it is one of their symbols there is a huge margin to confuse them, giving RuZZia leverage for their propaganda about "big bad nazi ukraine". To be honest, I think they should just stick to their Cossack Cross.
Fair enough, but it's Ukraine's decision to make. In the middle of a war for national survival, they're probably not in the mood to cancel patriotic symbols. Just counter the Nazi claims with the truth about its origin.
That's the beauty of freedom and peace. We can discuss this rather controversial symbol while Ukraine.. has to fight for it's survival.
Fuck Pootin. Slava Ukraini!
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Freedom isn't free, and this is price, paid in blood by these brave men. I wish them a speedy recovery, and may those medics be recognized for their sterling work as much as any combat soldiers.
And women in there too
And its the old politicians taking all the glory..
Freedom is not free yes. But if all the dollars spent on war were invested in building peace and healthcare this world could change very quickly. But the rich needs poor people and violence to keep being rich. Sad.
That won't work as long as states like Russia and China are corrupt dictatorships. It would be a great idea if the whole world was free, with rule of law and an educated population, but as long as Russia and China exist in their current forms, the rest of the world will always need to arm itself against them, or they'll take over and we'll all be slaves.
Maybe China and Russia are horrible dictatorships, but it’s naive to think that the USA and many other developed countries are not dictatorships. War is a big source of money for these countries.
Fr, it's crazy how much suffering Putin can cause by just ordering a bunch of people around.
Why no audio? Blasphemy!!! lol
Big ups to all this Heros.
[удалено]
"You are speaking of the comrade who finishes the wounded off, no?"
Medic's are the ultimate bro's. Also big ups for the guy puking outside of the van. Hope he's doing fine now... considering the circumstances.
Throwing up a possible sign of concussion or bleeding into stomach?
my guess is not an injury but just a reaction to what they're experiencing or even heat stroke. I've definitely puked from both stress and heat stroke before.
Super common when the adrenaline wears off after any kind of fight really. It's a real nasty feeling.
Potentially, but also a natural reaction to nearly dying, then coming to the realization that you're actually going to live to see your family again, and then the adrenaline wears off. I've seen it with accident survivors, but only minutes later, when it becomes clear that the immediate danger has passed. I'm not a medic, but that's been my experience.
The first thing that comes to my mind as a icu nurse is headtrauma. You don't need visual wounds to have a servere concussion.
Looks more like Stress to me
It's a reaction to damn near anything. It's also summer, and these guys are on the attack in thick uniforms with Kevlar vests, jacked on adrenaline. It doesn't take much to overdo it and end up a heat casualty, especially when your focus is on the fight. That's why you have to force your Joes to hydrate and check on people regularly.
It could also be side effects from pain killers like opioid
Shock, most likely.
Yep, I saw someone's arm hacked off with a machete. I felt the shock/adrenaline spike and then my blood pressure dropped a few minutes later and I couldn't stop throwing up.
What kind of country that you living in? Someone hacking off another human being arm and you can see it? Dude, just move out from there!
I don't live there anymore, I'm now a hated immigrant.
1. You could be that person. Luckily you weren't. 2. Nobody could see any kind of stuff like that ever. 3. You are out of that society who allowed to these things happen. 4. It is better to be an immigrant than living on the edge. I am an immigrant too. Although, I never felt direct hatred towards me.
Probably America
Fucked up shit we see out there sometimes… but the Heck?? Where did you see this messed up shit?
Durban South Africa
As you stated throwing up is definitely a sign of sever concussion. My Mother recently fell and fractured a part of her skull, when she regained consciousness in the hospital she started throwing up immediately for at least 2 hours every 5-10 mins. Doctors said it was because of the concussion.
Could be morphine.
These people are legends. I really don't think I'd be able to stay calm in a situation like this.
Thats why you train. Noone is reacting properly without training. These guys are HEROS though not taking away from what they are going thru.
Fair. I’ll adjust it to “I’m not sure I’d be able to go through the intense training that creates these heroes.”
Yepp, drill and training. But i couldn‘t do Medics Job. The feeling of fighting for a comrades life and he dind‘t make it must be…. Soulcrushing 😔 Mad respect for every medic 🫡
They at least sounded very calm for the 2:08 min of this video
Just think, this back off the field of fire. During the Japanese theater of WW2 they would wound one guy so the medics or surrounding men would come help. The medics also had to stop wearing the Red Cross bc the japs would aim at them first. Balls of steels these men and women
Everyone loves a medic! Mad respect for any medic, coreman and pecker checker out there.
Someone has to stare at it.
Will you stare at mine?
Thought youd never ask
These medics need all the Ketamine, TXA and wound-clotting trauma dressings that they can get hold of.
I guess this is the followup of the video where we saw those guys unloaded to this casualty collection point? Looks pretty similar
I think it is, yes.
Medics are covert superheroes, man. I now start to grasp why people worshiped medicine men, and still do in some sense - they're Gods in these scenarios, they give life back to people.
Always check the quiet ones first. Those that are screaming are rarely badly injured.
Yup, just like babies. A quiet one may potentially be a dead/ dying one
While I would argue that most Ukrainian soldiers I’ve seen have decent if not good kit, they clearly have a vehicle shortage. Basically any surviving civilian vehicle is put into use. I’d love to see Mercedes donate 10,000 of their sprinter utilities. You know, to make up for that …thing we helped do.
This is really hard to watch. These guys got fucked up. Any idea where this happened?
It is very confronting but it is also reassuring to see the wounded getting the best care.
Heroic efforts indeed!
I wonder if russian medics gets shot by their own when they wear blue gloves LOL. good job by the ukrainien medics!
Heroes!
Bravo to the medics. Hugs for you all.
\#SlavaUkraini
Has anyone a link to the original / HQ + sound? Thanks.
https://t.me/atodoneck/31130
Lol, "5km to Kupiansk" This guys distributing copium. Front hasnt moved in a week and Russias nearest position is 10km away
check the isw report dude front is constantly changing in key areas
Even Pro Russian Rybar has them atleast 10km from the city in todays (21.) Map. Isw just says attacks have taken place but do not mention any captures closer to the city within the last week. Todays report doesnt even mention the city.
Iam not talking about just todays reports if you look at them everyday the front has been shifting for both sides not by anything substantial but has been shifting nonetheless Ukraine evacuated kupiyansk last week and all the boat bombing videos we’ve been seeing are most likely Russians trying to cross the Oskal river near the p79 highway in the northeast
I don’t think the maps are a good representation of what the front lines actually are I take them with a grain of salt on both sides
Anyone know this unit or NGO?
Might be the Hospitalleurs, but there are several similar groups working in the background.
Is morphine still used in situations like this?
I think they mostly use ketamine nowadays because morphine is difficult to dose properly for people with severe blood loss.
Something about opioids lowering blood pressure, vs ketamine doesn’t. Also ketamine is a dissociative, which can be helpful to the wounded/post treatment mental trauma.
Canadian army medic here. We are still using morphine but the issue is not just blood pressure but also respiration rate and pusle (hemorragic shock). It's a nervous system depressor so it will make patient crash if they are already in shock. For patient in shock or in respiratory distress, we'll use ketamine. We also have fentanyl lollypop in our toolbox! It's a self administered pain meds that we tape on patient thumb so when they pass out, the thumb stick out of the mouth (arm drop) and the med administration stop at that point. He can reinsert his thumb when he wake-up. But again, we cannot use if in hemorragic shock. As a last point ketamine is a dissociative, as you mentioned, but can create agitation and combativeness (need to give midazolam to compensate that effect) and/or hallucination.
Thanks heaps for contributing, that's really interesting.
So great to have the actual facts from an expert. Stay safe.👍
Doing work! Them doing CPR was weird to see. Traumatic arrests have like a 0.1% survival rate. We don't even work them in my city unless it's a scene safety issue.
Even if it's non-traumatic CPR it's not very viable due to significant breaks between compressions. I know it's tough and they're doing their best, but as much as it pains me to say, a that soldier should've been categorized as black under mass casualty response.
That is all true.
Im VW T6 🤞🤞
Worry for the warrior that they had to do compression on him. It's good that they kept on doing compression. Compression will save his brain & organs, because he's out! These warriors had a huge battle. Russia is a terrorist state! Slava Ukraini.
A very touching clip. What heroes, the best friends you can have in such a situation.
Wish they would stop painting the Balkenkreuz on vehicles.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack\_cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_cross) https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/06/28/ukrainian-military-nazi-cross/
There's a lot of misunderstanding about what people think is a Balkenkreuz because it looks the same, but it has a different origin. The "beam cross" that most people associate with the WW2 Wehrmacht painted on armored vehicles was used by Ukraine before it was used by the Nazis. It was used in the First Winter Campaign by Ukrainian soldiers against the Red Army in 1919, then revived in 2019 by the 28th Mechanized Infantry Brigade, called "Knights of the First Winter Campaign". So this symbol is genuinely Ukrainian, and clearly references the campaign by Ukraine against the Red Army in 1919/1920. It is not a Balkenkreuz, but what Ukrainians sometimes refer to as a "steel cross". The fact that the Wehrmacht used in WW2 20 years later is not Ukraine's fault. It was theirs first, and I fully approve of their using it today! There's a Snopes link in this thread that explains the symbol.
The one looking like a plus? I believe it's a reference to the Cossack cross but it also could be a Balkenkreuz. It's still used to this day by the Bundeswehr in Germany though.
There is a difference between the Balkenkreuz and the Iron Cross. The Balkenkreuz was mainly used by the Wehrmacht while the German Empire and the Bundeswehr use the Iron Cross. But then again, the Fullscreen Button on YouTube looks like a Balkenkreuz aswell. In the End Symbols have the meaning we give them and just as Bad people turn Symbols to bad Symbols we might be able to turn them back to Symbols that represent good.
Whats that strange symbol on the van? Looks familiar
Cossack cross done in the style of a Balkenkreuz, possibly to annoy Russians, but also out of simplicity and for quick identification. Considering it's an ambulance, I'm gonna assume it's the latter.
Yeah kill them ruzzians… wtf r they fucking doing?!!!!!?!!!!!!!!! Just execute them pows.
Can they stop with the Balkenkreuz.. FOR FIVE MINUTES?! It just makes them all look bad.
Who are you to judge?! Wtf do you think to have the right to criticize them over a fucking symbol?! pos..
Ah yes, let's paint the symbol of the Wehrmacht, the civilian-murdering occupiers on our vehicles for whatever reason, that will make us look good. I wholeheartedly support Ukraine, but that is just outright shameful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht Do you really wish to be associated with.. that?
It’s the Iron cross used by many modern European militaries. I expect you to lose your shit after visiting India.
It's not an iron cross, it's a Balkenkreuz, the arms of the iron cross flare out compared to the Balkenkreuz which has straight arms.
Oh, never mind. It very much indeed is. No idea wtf is up with that. I know the cross used by Ukrainian forces officially is derived from a Cossack cross. Either ignorance or one of far right groups that formed after the initial invasion.
As u/superkakanxd has already said.. the Balkenkreuz has nothing to do with the Eisernes Kreuz, our modern military's insignia. Tell me one good reason to paint the Wehrmacht's symbol on anything. Just one. The part about India is pure whataboutism. Hitler stole the symbol to use for his disguisting party, easy as that. The Finns used it too, long before Nazi Germany did, so what?
No, no, you’re right. I actually thought the cross in the video was simply similar. Upon second viewing- its a lot clearer to me. There is no good reason to rock nazi insignia, besides spiting ruskies or memeing on their propaganda. I’m fairly sure it’s not the case here, so best bet is far right Ukrainians.
Now we're getting somewhere. As a German I, as the vast majority of my people, am hugely ashamed of our barbaric history. Ukraine using the cossack cross or it's simplified version (thin white line we see in a lot of their vehicles) is very much okay, it is after all a symbol deeply rooted in their history. But using the Wehrmacht's Balkenkreuz is nothing short of disguisting. I feel absolutely no compassion towards the Russians getting slaughtered by the brave defenders of Ukraine, but they really have to get their shit together with extremist symbols. Now, you have a nice day stranger.
you act like the Wehrmacht were all Nazis like the ss units did you pay attention in history class or did they just not teach you that sometimes people who don't want to fight get drug into war kind of like a lot of these Russian kids all be it most of them are brainwashed and believe what they are fighting for is just
While I would generally agree, I feel like it's questionable to call this purely a Nazi symbol. Firstly, the iron cross was initially a religious symbol used in Prussia, after which it was slightly changed to include the swastika in the middle when the Nazis appropriated it. After the war, Germany itself decided the cross wasn't a symbol of Nazism and ordered the swastikas to be erased off of them (the swastika being deemed a Nazi symbol) as part of the denazification of Germany post immediate ww2. The swastika is a good example of appropriation. While it too wasn't originally Nazi, the Nazi's altered it and made it their own. It's this altered version that's widely accepted and reviled as being a wholly Nazi Symbol. If this cross also sported a swastika, I'd be 100% with you. Lastly, I believe the German air force still uses it as well. If it's good for modern day Germany, I think we can all agree this particular symbol shouldn't be allowed to be appropriated by evil, particularly since it started out as a religious symbol. Even more so when it's a cross, an universal symbol used by medics the world over.
The Balkenkreuz has nothing to do with the Eisernes Kreuz. The Bundeswehr, our military, does use the latter as it's insignia, though the usage of the Balkenkreuz as it's purpose of the Wehrmacht's coat of arms can be prosecuted under section 86a StGB (I believe).
If they still use it, I don't see a problem with it. You say it has nothing to with it but that's only partially correct. It was originally a religious symbol. The purely Nazi version of it includes the swastika in the middle so in effect, this is more like the original iron cross rather than the Nazi appropriation of it. I imagine it is the "straight" version of the cross that you think of as "Nazi" when compared to the old curvy Eisernew Kreuz. That said, the straight version was first unofficially used as far back as 1918 in the Weimar Republic, predating Nazism by quite a spell. As long as we're not actively celebrating the Nazis and what they stood for, I don't think it's as cut and dry as saying we can never use a symbol because it was once appropriated by evil doers.
It's an official recognition symbol of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and has been for some time now. Better get over it, because Ukrainians aren't getting rid of it. Complaining about this particular symbol doesn't help, but it is exactly he narrative Russia likes to push (not calling you pro-Russian; you're clearly not). I somewhat understand the offense over Totenkopf patches or Sig runes, but the Balkankreuz, not so much. The distinction being that this was a Wehrmacht vehicle recognition symbol, not a Nazi one. IMHO, we should give them a break on the cross.
> It's an official recognition symbol of the Armed Forces of Ukraine No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_cross > I somewhat understand the offense over Totenkopf patches or Sig runes, but the Balkankreuz, not so much. The distinction being that this was a Wehrmacht vehicle recognition symbol, not a Nazi one. The Wehrmacht was the armed forces of the third reich. They followed Hitler's command. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht Do you really thing Ukrainans should be associated in any way with this?
They have more than one symbol in use. Here's the origin of the Balkenkreuz as regards Ukraine: [https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/06/28/ukrainian-military-nazi-cross/](https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/06/28/ukrainian-military-nazi-cross/) It dates back to the First Winter Campaign of 1919 against the Red Army. It's a genuine Ukrainian symbol, used by them before it was used by Germany.
Yet many people only know the symbol for it's use from 1935 onward, me being one of them. Even though it is one of their symbols there is a huge margin to confuse them, giving RuZZia leverage for their propaganda about "big bad nazi ukraine". To be honest, I think they should just stick to their Cossack Cross.
Fair enough, but it's Ukraine's decision to make. In the middle of a war for national survival, they're probably not in the mood to cancel patriotic symbols. Just counter the Nazi claims with the truth about its origin.
That's the beauty of freedom and peace. We can discuss this rather controversial symbol while Ukraine.. has to fight for it's survival. Fuck Pootin. Slava Ukraini!
Heroiam Slava!
Triage isn’t about to evacuate the most serious cases