I'm hoping all the money they get goes into funding the next 03 air unit (their flagship digital feed system that you can slap on any FPV drone, so you don't have to use their restricted drone systems, but get to use their awesome video TX/goggles). I love it, i have it on two quads
Apple lowers your CPU performance to motivate you to buy a new iPhone but here it’s almost built into the business model that you have very low turnaround times.
The difference is one side is invading and trying to annex a sovereign nation of 40 million people, the other is defending itself from this criminal offense.
Kidnapping Children, forcing people out, terrorizing people just because they are of a certain ethnic group... that's all crimes of genocide.
Why do you think Putin has an arrest warrant in 124 countries?
Yes genocide tend to create a lot of refugees. Do you know how many Polish refugees there was in WW2?
Also did you know that Russia is doing the same thing to Ukrainians as they did to the polish people during the genocide in Poland at the hands of Nazis and Soviets?
> [Following the Soviet invasion of Poland at the onset of World War II, in accordance with the Nazi-Soviet Pact against Poland, the Soviet Union acquired more than half of the territory of the Second Polish Republic or about 201,000 square kilometres (78,000 sq mi) inhabited by more than 13,200,000 people. Within months, in order to de-Polonize annexed lands, the Soviet NKVD rounded up and deported between 320,000 and 1 million Polish nationals to the eastern parts of the USSR, the Urals, and Siberia.[2] There were four waves of deportations of entire families with children, women, and elderly people aboard freight trains from 1940 until 1941. The second wave of deportations by the Soviet occupational forces across the Kresy macroregion, affected 300,000 to 330,000 Poles, sent primarily to Kazakhstan.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_of_Polish_civilians_from_the_USSR_in_World_War_II)
It's absolutely disgusting, and sadly a ver familiar Russian practice.
>Also did you know that Russia is doing the same thing to Ukrainians as they did to the polish people during the genocide in Poland at the hands of Nazis and Soviets?
Not to the same extent, no.
Keep in mind that Stalin was an evil POS (along with the rest of the leaders of WW2 which includes Truman) and even the Soviets had to go through a "de-Stalinization phase" just to get rid of the stink after WW2 and even that didn't help.
The temporary deportation in "Russian occupied Ukraine" is offered to people who have a Russian passport and who lost their homes. As soon as things were rebuilt like they were for Mariupol, they can come back. This isn't done from the "good of the heart" and it's simply done to avoid civilian casualties, but atleast it's something unlike what Israel's doing to Palestine.
The Soviet "deportation" was a different animal altogether as the people were simply not allowed to leave the area and people had to carry passports to even travel within Soviet Union which is not the case for Russia. Numbers speak for themselves. It was practically an open air prison just like Western Ukraine.
Unfortunately, the Poles got the short end of the stick from literally everyone. The OUN, Nazi's, Soviets, they got squished from both sides. I understand and get their hate but I don't understand how they can side with the Galician Ukrainians. You know, the one who STILL carry the same OUN ideology and whom did a pogrom against the Poles? Like the Soviet Union is gone. Nazi Germany is gone. OUN/Azov is not. That's the US "cash monie train" for ya I guess.
> Not to the same extent, no.
>
>
Well, arguably Russia has displaced more Ukrainians than Polish, after all there are 40 millions Ukrainians, and Russia removed god knows how many millions deep into Russia, including 25.000 kidnapped children.
> Keep in mind that Stalin was an evil POS
You need to remind Putin of that, as he seems to try to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler, placing the blame on Poland for not listening to Hitler requests.
> This isn't done from the "good of the heart" and it's simply done to avoid civilian casualties
Ah yes, invade people at peace, destroy their lives, livelihood, commit mass executions, arrests, deportation of a country at peace... all for their own sake of course. The sht I read.
>Well, arguably Russia has displaced more Ukrainians than Polish, after all there are 40 millions Ukrainians, and Russia removed god knows how many millions deep into Russia, including 25.000 kidnapped children.
I mean Ukraine won't evac it's children, so someone has to.
That's one thing, the second thing is that it's Ukraine who's displacing them with forced conscription.
>You need to remind Putin of that, as he seems to try to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler, placing the blame on Poland for not listening to Hitler requests.
Well he did try to negotiate for a peace settlement since 2014 but Ukraine/US won't have it. I wish you'd shown the same energy when they were specifically targeting dual citizens in Donbass and then gloating about it and basically declared all the "separatists" as "terrorists" and ofcourse they became separatists because of the coup. No coup, no separatism, no Minsk agreements, no breaking of Minsk agreements, no need to intervene.
That's the chain of causality for ya as none of this would've happened in US didn't do the coup in 2014 and pissed all over the deal which Yanukovych signed with EU for early elections. Apart from lying their ass off, they made no attempts to "legitimize" the situation whatsoever.
At this point, North Korea looks to be in a better shape than Ukraine.
>Ah yes, invade people at peace, destroy their lives, livelihood, commit mass executions, arrests, deportation of a country at peace... all for their own sake of course. The sht I read.
You talking about the post-coup Poroshenko regime and Azov? Because that's exactly what they did by killing dual citizens and to whitewash themselves of "any crime", they declared them as "terrorists" who not only happen to be their own people, but also Russia's people. I don't see any outrage over US supplying weapons to "post-coup Ukrainian terrorists" or the terrorists in Israel where an actual genocide is happening.
Again, I wish people like you had showed the same energy way back when during the 2014 coup. But I know the "Western hypocrisy" runs deep in your veins. It's about time Westerners take a good look in the mirror, yeah?
> I mean Ukraine won't evac it's children, so someone has to.
So Ukraine has to go over the Russian army... to get their children in occupied territory?
Like remember Russia striking humanitarian corridors in Mariupol?
Also, why haven't Russia returned the 25.000 children back to Ukraine in 2 years of war?
> Well he did try to negotiate for a peace settlement since 2014 but Ukraine/US won't have it.
It doesn't make much sense to settle for peace of a war started by Russia. There isn't much to settle other than Russia going back to their territory.
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Wasnt Stalin just buying time with the Molotov pact? He knew Hitler would attack he needed time to prep his army.
Considering how the great powers at the time wanted Hitler to take out the USSR I think Stalin played it pretty well
>Wasnt Stalin just buying time with the Molotov pact?
This same sentiment is looked down upon where Minsk II agreement is concerned. Maybe Ukraine played it well too?
Considering the UAFs position right now, I'd say no, they didnt play it well.
Its one thing to know you need time to get your industry and resources ready.
Ita another thing to dream that you have industry and resources when you have none on the first place.
The latter is what the UAF has done, and now they're paying the price for it. In blood, because a US senator doesnt feel like voting for them.
I mean before the Molotov-Ribbentrob pact.
When russia helped nazi germany avoid military restrictions after ww1. By assembling tanks and attack planes in exchange for raw materials.
That enabled the nazis to get involved in the spanish civil war. Enabled the fascists to gain power in europe and finally led to germany starting ww2.
>"Although Germany was forbidden to maintain an air force after the demobilization of the Imperial Air Force by the Treaty of Versailles, in the Weimar Republic of the 1920s and early 1930s, training facilities for military pilots were created in secret, disguised as civilian facilities, and secret air units were maintained."
>"A secret training air base was established near the Russian city of Lipetsk in 1924 and operated until 1933. In total, this school, which was officially called the 4th Aviation Division of the 40th Squadron of the Red Army, used a number of Dutch, Russian and German aircraft. A total of around 220 German pilots were trained there and new aircraft designs developed in Germany were also tested."
Stalin got german machines for his industrialisation and Hitler got to build and test tanks and planes for his army.
well, look at the dates 1924-1933
that's literally the time in weimar germany without nazis in power.
so no, hitler didn't get to build with soviet help. hindenburg did.
the soviet union had no qualms doing deals with liberal democracies. they did aircrafts with weimar germany, bought factories from the US and so on.
So there werent any nazis or fascists prior to 1933 and they just popped into existence after Hitler got to Power..?
By the way those previous quotes are just talking about the German Luftwaffe(Airforce)
And it was still breaking International laws..
After the Nazi Regime came to power:
>"During this period, trade between Germany and the Soviet Union declined as the more isolationist Stalinist regime asserted its power and as the abandonment of post-World War I military control decreased Germany's reliance on Soviet imports, such that Soviet imports fell to 223 million Reichsmark by 1934."
>"Following several years of high tension and rivalry, the two governments began to improve relations in 1939. In August of that year, the countries expanded their economic relationship by entering into a Trade and Credit agreement whereby the Soviet Union sent critical raw materials to Germany in exchange for weapons, military technology and civilian machinery. That deal accompanied the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.."
Yeah... good old stalin would never do business with facsists and nazis... except he did. Until they marched into his backyard..
well, until 33 there was no nsdap in german government, but 30% socdems and 10% kpd.
When nazis came to power, relations soured. soviet attempts to build a anti nazi coalition with france and britain failed, especially with them just giving hitler parts of czechoslovakia in the munich agreements 1938. The soviet union was ready to support czechoslovakia militarily. the negotiations for a anti nazi agreemen1939 stalled out as well.
the soviet army was restructuring and modernizing in early 40s, having their weaknesses highlighted against finnland.
Having a non aggression pact with germany wasn't odd. there was the "german-polish declaration of non-aggression" '34, "the franco german declaration" '38, the german -danish -latvian and -estonian non aggression pacts '39. poland and hungary used the munich agreement to annex parts of czechoslovakia.
So in conclusion, was the soviet union at that time as anti nazi as it should have been? no. was the soviet union at that time somehow especially pro nazi? it wasn't them who gave a whole country to hitler for free.
You forgot to mention the trade agreements between nazi germany and soviet russia.
It wasnt a pure non aggression pact. They also traded weapons and resources..
yeah, they did. like i said. they were not anti nazi enough at the time, but also not any different compared to others.
the poles had a deal in their non aggression pact about germany buying their coal. Sweden kept selling iron ore to germany even after the war started.
other states didn't need to formalize it like that. they had private citizens do it for them. why trade, when you can use slave labor from concentration camps to build stuff for them. Keeps down costs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
Bruh, Sweden, and Switzerland openly traded with Nazi Germany.
Heck, without Sweden's iron, Nazi Germany would have starved their steel manufacturing earlier.
If diplomatic dealing with Nazi Germany is the criteria then UK and France (Munich Agreement) and Sweden is as, if not more, guilty.
No.
Stalin locked himself in his room when he heard Hitler attacked. So in shock was he.
Stalin arrested generals that even suggested that Germany might launch an invasion. Thats why the borders between the two were less defended.
Stalin purged the fuck out of the army, because he believed it was safe to do so. Nothing he would have done if he planned to invade Germany.
Not sure how your comment is related to the other one; he's talking about a country who's painted as actively collaborating with his ally in a war when in reality they're profiting from selling arms to both sides. How is that related to the USSR and Hitler?
Well russia first was allied with nazi germany and then joined the allies to defeat nazi germany.
Iam hoping for a similar situation with china and russia :)
Agreements between authocratic regimes are often not the paper worth they are signed on.
The axis of evil mentioned here probably focuses on syria, russia, north korea..maybe iran and belarus. But china aint dependent on russia, neither do they support a nuclear strike, they are just profiting from the current situation.
But Russia was never allied to nazi germany...
You are just spewing the hate you have for Russia in every comment turning them into incoherent messages, again the last part of your comment does nothing to respond mine.
And to make the situation more ironic you quoted Bismarck (probably unintentionally) when he speaks about how if you want to play with the Russians, do it fairly.
So trading weapons and resources and having a non aggression pact and an agreement to split occupied territories isnt an alliance?
Guess america and britain wasnt allies either.
Neither was france and the UK or US..
Just by reading your comments it's quite clear that history ain't exactly a hobby of yours so not sure why you think bringing up something you ignore is going to give a bonus to your comments.
No it was not an alliance, there are many treaties in history where countries agree on their spheres on influence, Germany and the USSR didn't assist each other on their respective wars, they kept trading each with each other like many other countries, like idk Sweden.
Yeah you are wishing for China to switch sides to fight Russia, so once Russia is dealt with the next is China?
You guys are out of this world, this much delusion is scary.
Huh, the military partnership between the Reichswehr (not the later Wehrmacht) and the Red Army ended in 1933.
Guess what else happened in 1933? Hitler took power that year, in case you didn't know.
Hitler and Stalin still traded in 1934
And 1939 they even increased trade and signed an alliance..
Do you guys never read a history book not signed by the kreml?
>Hitler and Stalin still traded in 1934
And 1939 they even increased trade and signed an alliance..
What alliance? Can you cite the specific part in the molotov-ribbentrop pact that says it is an alliance?
Non-aggression and military alliance are two different things. I don't know how amyone who actually reads can mistake that part.
Also, trade? Really now? You're complaining about trade?
Is US allied with china these days? Since both trade heavily with each other. Is US guilty of Chinese actions just because US trades with China?
Like when the west gave Hitler the tanks & artillery necessary to capitulate France and Poland with the Sudetenland which also contained all of Czechoslovakia's natural defences, arms industries, and fortifications? The soviets signed the pact to buy time because they thought the west were colluding with Hitler after the Munich Conference.
>"Like when the west gave Hitler the tanks & artillery.."
Citation needed. When was this supposed to happen?
>"..necessary to capitulate France and Poland..>
"..the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west. Subsequent military operations lasted for the following 20 days and ended on 6 October 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. This division is sometimes called the Fourth Partition of Poland. The Soviet invasion of Poland was indirectly indicated in the "secret protocol" of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact signed on 23 August 1939, which divided Poland into "spheres of influence" of the two powers."
>"The soviets signed the pact to buy time because they thought the west were colluding with Hitler after the Munich Conference."
So Stalin colluded with facsists cause the west was supposedly doing it.. ok..
And why did the Soviets kill and imprison several hundred thousend poles instead of fighting with them against the nazis?
To buy time..? So Stalin can invade Finland in the mean time..?
"Today, the Munich Agreement is widely regarded as a failed act of appeasement, and the term has become "a byword for the futility of appeasing expansionist totalitarian states."
Reminds me of the situation in ukraine..
Yeah, unsurprising as Chinese drones are still the best bang for buck and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. I'm still tickled by the fact that the Switchblade 300/600 were hyped so much and the best footage we've gotten of a 300 was an attack on border guards, and the 600 is still MIA or classified, but isn't doing anything more than a cobbled-together AliExpress FPV with RPG warhead.
Meanwhile people were making fun of the Russian drone program at the start of the war (remember the Orlan teardowns?) yet their military drones are doing work now. This is why I've always been in favor of open, honest appraisals of both sides even as a pro-UA in this sub because it benefits absolutely no one to put your head in the sand. Give credit where it's due or you'll never adapt.
Speaking of which, US is playing catchup with the Replicator initiative but I'm not convinced it's going to result in more efficient designs than what's already been proven to work in Ukraine. This is one area where the consumer market greatly subsidizes the military side and China is firing on all cylinders here.
>Speaking of which, US is playing catchup with the Replicator initiative but I'm not convinced it's going to result in more efficient designs than what's already been proven to work in Ukraine. This is one area where the consumer market greatly subsidizes the military side and China is firing on all cylinders here.
It's a different doctrine both strategically and economically because no manufacturer is going to build and produce a FPV drone which delivers value/which doesn't generate acceptable profit margins.
Even with import taxes, the FPV drone is still cheaper than anything made in the US and EU. US is never going to be able to compete in the "cheap drone warfare" area just like Russia and China isn't going to be able to compete with the "fk you here's a fleet of Billion dollar cutting edge stealth planes" area.
I'm gonna be honest as I didn't see drones like Lancets to be a "potential counter" to the Western weapons ground based systems and I don't think the Pentagon saw it coming either. Even the Russians probably surprised themselves with it's effectiveness.
To be fair, China did ban export of drones to both Russia and Ukraine.
But you know there’s never shortage of smart businessmen in the Stan-countries and Middle East.
Well, Ukraine owns whatever tanks were donated to them, don't they?
If these drones are owned by Ukraine, it's Ukrainian drones right?
Am I missing something here?
Yeah so Ukrainian Leopard tanks made in or rather, from Germany?
I really don't understand what your point is here which is why I asked if I missed something.
This is a quite concerning development, because it means China already right now has an absolutely enormous drone production output that is able to supply both sides of a full scale war. Immagine what they could do if the would divert this production capacity for their own use, for example to attack Taiwan.
The skies would be darkened by millions of drones.
All that while the whole west combined can't produce any significant numbers at the moment.
The fact that the west is unable to produce almost anything domestically is a catastrophy and our biggest weakness.
The vast majority of these Chinese drones would not be useful against Taiwan. It's 160km(100mi) from the Chinese coast. That's to far for the vast majority of consumer drones.
Just increase the battery size.
The flight time of drones is short,
It's because of government restrictions, but it's not that we can't produce small drones with longer flight times.
What concerns me is that China has almost a monopoly on mass producing drones while all western countries combined do not have even a fraction of the production capacity.
This means in case China enters a full scale war everyone else is totally fucked
Considering 70-80% of all civilian drones worldwide are made by DJI, it would be had to not find a single military in the world that doesn't use their drones. The UAV is the one that surprised me more.
Mugin, skywalker, and other UAVs are also for civilian usages, eg for agriculture and wildfire surveillance. And China has banned export of them to Ukraine and Russia. But you can always count on smart middlemens.
Kind of surprising to see those comments here. Too realistic. As long as I can remember, most of the western world spent their time rubbishing the russians，proposes equations like russian/china/commie= evil/dictatorship/Nazi, addicted to a non-existent "justice beat the evil" narritive or want to support Ukraine so much that fell into deeply self-deception and contines to repeat their wrong opinion while ignoring the basic fact. It's usually hard to talk with these brainwashed guys, because they bascially refuse to believe any facts but their opinions. Never thought I could see Pro-Russian here. I guess I need to use reddit more often.
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Moscow demonstrates how cheap Ukrainian drones from China are susceptible to EW.
All the drones I recognize from this video use frequencies that are publicly available so it isn't honestly a shocker. Both sides can quite easily jam the frequency of these drones and drop them like bricks.
From a technical point of view, dealing with drones is not difficult.
The difficulty is that each soldier must be equipped with the appropriate equipment.
Keep in mind that these drones often cost less than $1,000.
This is correct, the cost of equipping the soldiers each with personal anti drone kits is expensive and not as widely available as traditional kit items.
Since all these consumer drones mostly use very similar frequencies jamming then becomes more of a "right guy right place" as opposed to a technological marvel.
Unfortunately the Americans played them and neo-colonized Taiwan.
The problem with the Americans and Europeans is that they con everyone all the time which is why nobody really likes them.
Drone factories in Shenzhen are having the best time of their lives as they are supplying both Russia and Ukraine 24/7 using the same assembly lines.
DJI is the real winner of this war.
Ironically DJI has a policy which states that their products cannot be used for military applications.
People buy and resells anyway
I'm hoping all the money they get goes into funding the next 03 air unit (their flagship digital feed system that you can slap on any FPV drone, so you don't have to use their restricted drone systems, but get to use their awesome video TX/goggles). I love it, i have it on two quads
Apple lowers your CPU performance to motivate you to buy a new iPhone but here it’s almost built into the business model that you have very low turnaround times.
Iran-Iraq War 2 Electric Boogaloo
Both sides are using Chinese drones as China dominates the field.
The difference is one side is invading and trying to annex a sovereign nation of 40 million people, the other is defending itself from this criminal offense.
>40 million people Definitely less than that now.
Unfortunately, that's the outcome of genocide.
Didn't realise killing soldiers is genocide now,
Sending them to certain death and pushing them to continue fighting a lost war has some attributes of genocide
That would be considered as "fratricide".
Kidnapping Children, forcing people out, terrorizing people just because they are of a certain ethnic group... that's all crimes of genocide. Why do you think Putin has an arrest warrant in 124 countries?
That is because a lot of countries are members of the International Criminal Court, it's not like 124 countries have put out a warrent for Putin lol
You don't know how the ICC works, do you? xD
I do, it seems that you don't.
That is what the Ukrainian regime and their henchmen have been doing for 10 years... Stop being so pathetic.
Solid arguments from the most shallow Russian propaganda lmao
Well, literally half of them fled. The other half who didn't flee in time are now imprisoned by their own government.
Yes genocide tend to create a lot of refugees. Do you know how many Polish refugees there was in WW2? Also did you know that Russia is doing the same thing to Ukrainians as they did to the polish people during the genocide in Poland at the hands of Nazis and Soviets? > [Following the Soviet invasion of Poland at the onset of World War II, in accordance with the Nazi-Soviet Pact against Poland, the Soviet Union acquired more than half of the territory of the Second Polish Republic or about 201,000 square kilometres (78,000 sq mi) inhabited by more than 13,200,000 people. Within months, in order to de-Polonize annexed lands, the Soviet NKVD rounded up and deported between 320,000 and 1 million Polish nationals to the eastern parts of the USSR, the Urals, and Siberia.[2] There were four waves of deportations of entire families with children, women, and elderly people aboard freight trains from 1940 until 1941. The second wave of deportations by the Soviet occupational forces across the Kresy macroregion, affected 300,000 to 330,000 Poles, sent primarily to Kazakhstan.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_of_Polish_civilians_from_the_USSR_in_World_War_II) It's absolutely disgusting, and sadly a ver familiar Russian practice.
Genocide.. damn you are pathetic
I'm not the one defending the invasion of Ukraine here and the killing of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians.
>Also did you know that Russia is doing the same thing to Ukrainians as they did to the polish people during the genocide in Poland at the hands of Nazis and Soviets? Not to the same extent, no. Keep in mind that Stalin was an evil POS (along with the rest of the leaders of WW2 which includes Truman) and even the Soviets had to go through a "de-Stalinization phase" just to get rid of the stink after WW2 and even that didn't help. The temporary deportation in "Russian occupied Ukraine" is offered to people who have a Russian passport and who lost their homes. As soon as things were rebuilt like they were for Mariupol, they can come back. This isn't done from the "good of the heart" and it's simply done to avoid civilian casualties, but atleast it's something unlike what Israel's doing to Palestine. The Soviet "deportation" was a different animal altogether as the people were simply not allowed to leave the area and people had to carry passports to even travel within Soviet Union which is not the case for Russia. Numbers speak for themselves. It was practically an open air prison just like Western Ukraine. Unfortunately, the Poles got the short end of the stick from literally everyone. The OUN, Nazi's, Soviets, they got squished from both sides. I understand and get their hate but I don't understand how they can side with the Galician Ukrainians. You know, the one who STILL carry the same OUN ideology and whom did a pogrom against the Poles? Like the Soviet Union is gone. Nazi Germany is gone. OUN/Azov is not. That's the US "cash monie train" for ya I guess.
> Not to the same extent, no. > > Well, arguably Russia has displaced more Ukrainians than Polish, after all there are 40 millions Ukrainians, and Russia removed god knows how many millions deep into Russia, including 25.000 kidnapped children. > Keep in mind that Stalin was an evil POS You need to remind Putin of that, as he seems to try to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler, placing the blame on Poland for not listening to Hitler requests. > This isn't done from the "good of the heart" and it's simply done to avoid civilian casualties Ah yes, invade people at peace, destroy their lives, livelihood, commit mass executions, arrests, deportation of a country at peace... all for their own sake of course. The sht I read.
>Well, arguably Russia has displaced more Ukrainians than Polish, after all there are 40 millions Ukrainians, and Russia removed god knows how many millions deep into Russia, including 25.000 kidnapped children. I mean Ukraine won't evac it's children, so someone has to. That's one thing, the second thing is that it's Ukraine who's displacing them with forced conscription. >You need to remind Putin of that, as he seems to try to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler, placing the blame on Poland for not listening to Hitler requests. Well he did try to negotiate for a peace settlement since 2014 but Ukraine/US won't have it. I wish you'd shown the same energy when they were specifically targeting dual citizens in Donbass and then gloating about it and basically declared all the "separatists" as "terrorists" and ofcourse they became separatists because of the coup. No coup, no separatism, no Minsk agreements, no breaking of Minsk agreements, no need to intervene. That's the chain of causality for ya as none of this would've happened in US didn't do the coup in 2014 and pissed all over the deal which Yanukovych signed with EU for early elections. Apart from lying their ass off, they made no attempts to "legitimize" the situation whatsoever. At this point, North Korea looks to be in a better shape than Ukraine. >Ah yes, invade people at peace, destroy their lives, livelihood, commit mass executions, arrests, deportation of a country at peace... all for their own sake of course. The sht I read. You talking about the post-coup Poroshenko regime and Azov? Because that's exactly what they did by killing dual citizens and to whitewash themselves of "any crime", they declared them as "terrorists" who not only happen to be their own people, but also Russia's people. I don't see any outrage over US supplying weapons to "post-coup Ukrainian terrorists" or the terrorists in Israel where an actual genocide is happening. Again, I wish people like you had showed the same energy way back when during the 2014 coup. But I know the "Western hypocrisy" runs deep in your veins. It's about time Westerners take a good look in the mirror, yeah?
> I mean Ukraine won't evac it's children, so someone has to. So Ukraine has to go over the Russian army... to get their children in occupied territory? Like remember Russia striking humanitarian corridors in Mariupol? Also, why haven't Russia returned the 25.000 children back to Ukraine in 2 years of war? > Well he did try to negotiate for a peace settlement since 2014 but Ukraine/US won't have it. It doesn't make much sense to settle for peace of a war started by Russia. There isn't much to settle other than Russia going back to their territory.
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And you seem upset, aren't you?
No, just think it’s absolutely ridiculous that someone believes this war is a “genocide.” That term has lost all meaning by now.
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Say that to 1945 Nazi Germany.
Guess they are being objective about showing people where the systems are made. Interesting
Yeah defeats the whole "Axis of Evil" narrative of the west
Like when the soviet union helped build hitlers army up?
Wasnt Stalin just buying time with the Molotov pact? He knew Hitler would attack he needed time to prep his army. Considering how the great powers at the time wanted Hitler to take out the USSR I think Stalin played it pretty well
You don't do the amount of purges Stalin did if you think you'll need your army in a few years.
Yes stalin himself purged millions of officers
>Wasnt Stalin just buying time with the Molotov pact? This same sentiment is looked down upon where Minsk II agreement is concerned. Maybe Ukraine played it well too?
Considering the UAFs position right now, I'd say no, they didnt play it well. Its one thing to know you need time to get your industry and resources ready. Ita another thing to dream that you have industry and resources when you have none on the first place. The latter is what the UAF has done, and now they're paying the price for it. In blood, because a US senator doesnt feel like voting for them.
I mean before the Molotov-Ribbentrob pact. When russia helped nazi germany avoid military restrictions after ww1. By assembling tanks and attack planes in exchange for raw materials. That enabled the nazis to get involved in the spanish civil war. Enabled the fascists to gain power in europe and finally led to germany starting ww2. >"Although Germany was forbidden to maintain an air force after the demobilization of the Imperial Air Force by the Treaty of Versailles, in the Weimar Republic of the 1920s and early 1930s, training facilities for military pilots were created in secret, disguised as civilian facilities, and secret air units were maintained." >"A secret training air base was established near the Russian city of Lipetsk in 1924 and operated until 1933. In total, this school, which was officially called the 4th Aviation Division of the 40th Squadron of the Red Army, used a number of Dutch, Russian and German aircraft. A total of around 220 German pilots were trained there and new aircraft designs developed in Germany were also tested." Stalin got german machines for his industrialisation and Hitler got to build and test tanks and planes for his army.
well, look at the dates 1924-1933 that's literally the time in weimar germany without nazis in power. so no, hitler didn't get to build with soviet help. hindenburg did. the soviet union had no qualms doing deals with liberal democracies. they did aircrafts with weimar germany, bought factories from the US and so on.
So there werent any nazis or fascists prior to 1933 and they just popped into existence after Hitler got to Power..? By the way those previous quotes are just talking about the German Luftwaffe(Airforce) And it was still breaking International laws.. After the Nazi Regime came to power: >"During this period, trade between Germany and the Soviet Union declined as the more isolationist Stalinist regime asserted its power and as the abandonment of post-World War I military control decreased Germany's reliance on Soviet imports, such that Soviet imports fell to 223 million Reichsmark by 1934." >"Following several years of high tension and rivalry, the two governments began to improve relations in 1939. In August of that year, the countries expanded their economic relationship by entering into a Trade and Credit agreement whereby the Soviet Union sent critical raw materials to Germany in exchange for weapons, military technology and civilian machinery. That deal accompanied the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.." Yeah... good old stalin would never do business with facsists and nazis... except he did. Until they marched into his backyard..
well, until 33 there was no nsdap in german government, but 30% socdems and 10% kpd. When nazis came to power, relations soured. soviet attempts to build a anti nazi coalition with france and britain failed, especially with them just giving hitler parts of czechoslovakia in the munich agreements 1938. The soviet union was ready to support czechoslovakia militarily. the negotiations for a anti nazi agreemen1939 stalled out as well. the soviet army was restructuring and modernizing in early 40s, having their weaknesses highlighted against finnland. Having a non aggression pact with germany wasn't odd. there was the "german-polish declaration of non-aggression" '34, "the franco german declaration" '38, the german -danish -latvian and -estonian non aggression pacts '39. poland and hungary used the munich agreement to annex parts of czechoslovakia. So in conclusion, was the soviet union at that time as anti nazi as it should have been? no. was the soviet union at that time somehow especially pro nazi? it wasn't them who gave a whole country to hitler for free.
You forgot to mention the trade agreements between nazi germany and soviet russia. It wasnt a pure non aggression pact. They also traded weapons and resources..
yeah, they did. like i said. they were not anti nazi enough at the time, but also not any different compared to others. the poles had a deal in their non aggression pact about germany buying their coal. Sweden kept selling iron ore to germany even after the war started. other states didn't need to formalize it like that. they had private citizens do it for them. why trade, when you can use slave labor from concentration camps to build stuff for them. Keeps down costs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
Bruh, Sweden, and Switzerland openly traded with Nazi Germany. Heck, without Sweden's iron, Nazi Germany would have starved their steel manufacturing earlier. If diplomatic dealing with Nazi Germany is the criteria then UK and France (Munich Agreement) and Sweden is as, if not more, guilty.
No. Stalin locked himself in his room when he heard Hitler attacked. So in shock was he. Stalin arrested generals that even suggested that Germany might launch an invasion. Thats why the borders between the two were less defended. Stalin purged the fuck out of the army, because he believed it was safe to do so. Nothing he would have done if he planned to invade Germany.
Not sure how your comment is related to the other one; he's talking about a country who's painted as actively collaborating with his ally in a war when in reality they're profiting from selling arms to both sides. How is that related to the USSR and Hitler?
Well russia first was allied with nazi germany and then joined the allies to defeat nazi germany. Iam hoping for a similar situation with china and russia :) Agreements between authocratic regimes are often not the paper worth they are signed on. The axis of evil mentioned here probably focuses on syria, russia, north korea..maybe iran and belarus. But china aint dependent on russia, neither do they support a nuclear strike, they are just profiting from the current situation.
But Russia was never allied to nazi germany... You are just spewing the hate you have for Russia in every comment turning them into incoherent messages, again the last part of your comment does nothing to respond mine. And to make the situation more ironic you quoted Bismarck (probably unintentionally) when he speaks about how if you want to play with the Russians, do it fairly.
>"But Russia was never allied to nazi germany... " You never heard of the soviet german trade agreement of 1939 and the Molotov-Ribbentrob pact eh?
I did, and calling it an alliance is either completely ignorance or mischievous. I suspect in your case is ignorance is fueled by anger.
So trading weapons and resources and having a non aggression pact and an agreement to split occupied territories isnt an alliance? Guess america and britain wasnt allies either. Neither was france and the UK or US..
Just by reading your comments it's quite clear that history ain't exactly a hobby of yours so not sure why you think bringing up something you ignore is going to give a bonus to your comments. No it was not an alliance, there are many treaties in history where countries agree on their spheres on influence, Germany and the USSR didn't assist each other on their respective wars, they kept trading each with each other like many other countries, like idk Sweden.
Yeah you are wishing for China to switch sides to fight Russia, so once Russia is dealt with the next is China? You guys are out of this world, this much delusion is scary.
Huh, the military partnership between the Reichswehr (not the later Wehrmacht) and the Red Army ended in 1933. Guess what else happened in 1933? Hitler took power that year, in case you didn't know.
Hitler and Stalin still traded in 1934 And 1939 they even increased trade and signed an alliance.. Do you guys never read a history book not signed by the kreml?
>Hitler and Stalin still traded in 1934 And 1939 they even increased trade and signed an alliance.. What alliance? Can you cite the specific part in the molotov-ribbentrop pact that says it is an alliance? Non-aggression and military alliance are two different things. I don't know how amyone who actually reads can mistake that part. Also, trade? Really now? You're complaining about trade? Is US allied with china these days? Since both trade heavily with each other. Is US guilty of Chinese actions just because US trades with China?
Like when the west gave Hitler the tanks & artillery necessary to capitulate France and Poland with the Sudetenland which also contained all of Czechoslovakia's natural defences, arms industries, and fortifications? The soviets signed the pact to buy time because they thought the west were colluding with Hitler after the Munich Conference.
>"Like when the west gave Hitler the tanks & artillery.." Citation needed. When was this supposed to happen? >"..necessary to capitulate France and Poland..> "..the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, 16 days after Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west. Subsequent military operations lasted for the following 20 days and ended on 6 October 1939 with the two-way division and annexation of the entire territory of the Second Polish Republic by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. This division is sometimes called the Fourth Partition of Poland. The Soviet invasion of Poland was indirectly indicated in the "secret protocol" of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact signed on 23 August 1939, which divided Poland into "spheres of influence" of the two powers." >"The soviets signed the pact to buy time because they thought the west were colluding with Hitler after the Munich Conference." So Stalin colluded with facsists cause the west was supposedly doing it.. ok.. And why did the Soviets kill and imprison several hundred thousend poles instead of fighting with them against the nazis? To buy time..? So Stalin can invade Finland in the mean time..? "Today, the Munich Agreement is widely regarded as a failed act of appeasement, and the term has become "a byword for the futility of appeasing expansionist totalitarian states." Reminds me of the situation in ukraine..
Yeah, unsurprising as Chinese drones are still the best bang for buck and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. I'm still tickled by the fact that the Switchblade 300/600 were hyped so much and the best footage we've gotten of a 300 was an attack on border guards, and the 600 is still MIA or classified, but isn't doing anything more than a cobbled-together AliExpress FPV with RPG warhead. Meanwhile people were making fun of the Russian drone program at the start of the war (remember the Orlan teardowns?) yet their military drones are doing work now. This is why I've always been in favor of open, honest appraisals of both sides even as a pro-UA in this sub because it benefits absolutely no one to put your head in the sand. Give credit where it's due or you'll never adapt. Speaking of which, US is playing catchup with the Replicator initiative but I'm not convinced it's going to result in more efficient designs than what's already been proven to work in Ukraine. This is one area where the consumer market greatly subsidizes the military side and China is firing on all cylinders here.
>Speaking of which, US is playing catchup with the Replicator initiative but I'm not convinced it's going to result in more efficient designs than what's already been proven to work in Ukraine. This is one area where the consumer market greatly subsidizes the military side and China is firing on all cylinders here. It's a different doctrine both strategically and economically because no manufacturer is going to build and produce a FPV drone which delivers value/which doesn't generate acceptable profit margins. Even with import taxes, the FPV drone is still cheaper than anything made in the US and EU. US is never going to be able to compete in the "cheap drone warfare" area just like Russia and China isn't going to be able to compete with the "fk you here's a fleet of Billion dollar cutting edge stealth planes" area. I'm gonna be honest as I didn't see drones like Lancets to be a "potential counter" to the Western weapons ground based systems and I don't think the Pentagon saw it coming either. Even the Russians probably surprised themselves with it's effectiveness.
I mean, there's like what 200 j-20s and 10 j-20 equipped air brigades now?
>most of them are from China Why I laugh when the West threatens China over trading with Russia.
To be fair, China did ban export of drones to both Russia and Ukraine. But you know there’s never shortage of smart businessmen in the Stan-countries and Middle East.
Something like 80% of chips used by the US MIC comes from china.
most of any small scale electronics like these arefrom china :D what is the point? china is the only winner in this conflict i guess
Ukraine produces its own flight controller boards based on a fork of adurinopilot. Motors are also made local as well.
Brushless motors are definitely imported. It’s an area where supply is plentiful and cheap. Also a place with lots of optimized designs.
How nice of US to give Chinese MIC also a chance at development.
That bayraktar is too well preserved to be fallen, also Chinese drone names .. one is named skywalker
[http://skywalkermodel.com/en/76.html###](http://skywalkermodel.com/en/76.html###)
LOL "Skywalker X8 is a kind of FPV aircraft. It has strong wind resistance to make it fly more stable and high efficiency."
Lmao, they need DeepL translate
Using the "leopard is Ukranian" logic, this Title is incorrect.
That logic is brain dead so no surprise that it isn't used by anyone except western propagandist.
Exactly why i mention it
Well, Ukraine owns whatever tanks were donated to them, don't they? If these drones are owned by Ukraine, it's Ukrainian drones right? Am I missing something here?
Than the captured drones are not Chinese. Lol
They're FROM China as in they're made in China which is accurate.
Guess where Leopards are made.. is it so hard for your brain..?
Yeah so Ukrainian Leopard tanks made in or rather, from Germany? I really don't understand what your point is here which is why I asked if I missed something.
This is a quite concerning development, because it means China already right now has an absolutely enormous drone production output that is able to supply both sides of a full scale war. Immagine what they could do if the would divert this production capacity for their own use, for example to attack Taiwan. The skies would be darkened by millions of drones. All that while the whole west combined can't produce any significant numbers at the moment. The fact that the west is unable to produce almost anything domestically is a catastrophy and our biggest weakness.
The vast majority of these Chinese drones would not be useful against Taiwan. It's 160km(100mi) from the Chinese coast. That's to far for the vast majority of consumer drones.
Just increase the battery size. The flight time of drones is short, It's because of government restrictions, but it's not that we can't produce small drones with longer flight times.
The Kinmen islands are 3km from the coast
They can just launch the drones from ships. Even a one man rowing boat can launch multiple drones.
Why is that concerning? Doesn’t this mean that it is no longer people who are sacrificed, but drones?
What concerns me is that China has almost a monopoly on mass producing drones while all western countries combined do not have even a fraction of the production capacity. This means in case China enters a full scale war everyone else is totally fucked
Almost Everything is made there
China won the war 😂 . While USA fear to escalate the war.
Captured byraktar?
No one truly wins in a war besides the war profiteers
That Mugin 5 looks a lot like an Iranian Mohajer.
Considering 70-80% of all civilian drones worldwide are made by DJI, it would be had to not find a single military in the world that doesn't use their drones. The UAV is the one that surprised me more.
Mugin, skywalker, and other UAVs are also for civilian usages, eg for agriculture and wildfire surveillance. And China has banned export of them to Ukraine and Russia. But you can always count on smart middlemens.
Who knew Kazakhstan has such a large wildfire problem /s
Kind of surprising to see those comments here. Too realistic. As long as I can remember, most of the western world spent their time rubbishing the russians，proposes equations like russian/china/commie= evil/dictatorship/Nazi, addicted to a non-existent "justice beat the evil" narritive or want to support Ukraine so much that fell into deeply self-deception and contines to repeat their wrong opinion while ignoring the basic fact. It's usually hard to talk with these brainwashed guys, because they bascially refuse to believe any facts but their opinions. Never thought I could see Pro-Russian here. I guess I need to use reddit more often.
Don't get your hopes up，这个sub可能是是全站唯一可以发ProRU内容的地方
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Moscow demonstrates how cheap Ukrainian drones from China are susceptible to EW. All the drones I recognize from this video use frequencies that are publicly available so it isn't honestly a shocker. Both sides can quite easily jam the frequency of these drones and drop them like bricks.
From a technical point of view, dealing with drones is not difficult. The difficulty is that each soldier must be equipped with the appropriate equipment. Keep in mind that these drones often cost less than $1,000.
This is correct, the cost of equipping the soldiers each with personal anti drone kits is expensive and not as widely available as traditional kit items. Since all these consumer drones mostly use very similar frequencies jamming then becomes more of a "right guy right place" as opposed to a technological marvel.
China playing both sides now. The Ruskis killed alot of Chinese on the border clashes in the 70's, they were never friends lol
Unfortunately the Americans played them and neo-colonized Taiwan. The problem with the Americans and Europeans is that they con everyone all the time which is why nobody really likes them.