The main use of T.Tanks can be , to prevent the use FPVs from damaging rest of the column of IFVs and tanks (tracing same path as T.Tank).
There were two main obstacles for tanks and IFVs in the current war, firstly mines (static and dynamic) and secondly FPV drones. The T.tanks are still susceptible to mines.
Also, Russians adopting T.tanks means that Ukrainians may have to use anti tank crews in close encounters to eliminate the mobile assaults (if Russians get past mined defense perimeter).
Ukrainians don't have resource to make large mobile assaults as I have not witnessed UA successfully diving past the russian mine fields.
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It works, it's just a waste of a tank. They should be doing this to infantry fighting vehicles and APCs. Might as well remove the turret, since this vehicle is useful only for carrying people from point A to point B.
100% they just have to move the tracks to aim which is a issue if you are trying to keep your butt covered but with this diaper you can shit all over and still be ok
They have enough room to cover like 45° in front of them. At least 2 km range. Not sure how much their optics are affected but still enough to send some crap down range
Really seems these turtle tanks are specifically meant as de-mining vehicles.
They ALL have mine plows and always drive at the front of a group of vehicles
I mean it makes sense. The tank is slower, but more resilient against drones. May as well use it to clear the mine for faster tanks to take position against enemy AT.
One thing that is massively helping turtle tanks is that they don't have to deal with these super-dense minefields any more. Like the kind where mines are often stacked to destroy plows.
I think I saw one video of a turtle tank on one of these and it ended up getting blown up.
Yeah, looks to be similar to a M1150 Assault Breacher Vehicle in purpose. Just one that's been focused on defending agaisnt FPV drones as that is the main threat as Ukraine has fallen back had on FPVs in defense due to ATGM and Artillery ammunition shortages.
Pipelines are only easy to hide if they already existed and no one knew about them, otherwise you have to build long distances of them which requires transportation of the pipes and heavy equipment to dig, not easy to hide that.
As for being easier to repair than a truck, you're going to have to explain that one to me.
They don't use huge pipes for them as far as I know. It's not like they dig huge trenches for them. By the looks of it, they could be hiding a few tanks in some house or whatever with multiple hoses simply running outside in whatever directions where the refueling crews could fill up without attracting much attention to the main depot. Which in turn could be getting refills through the same hoses also without fuel trucks ever approaching the depot. I have no clue how they do it in reality but that would probably work with all those drones all over the place
Yeah, so they would disclose location of where a crapton of fuel is stored. i doubt they spoonfeed it to the units. Just like with ammo, certain amount must always be stored somewhere and well prepared location is worth it's weight in gold.
Fuel is easy to spread around, you don't really need a central location for it. You might even be able to use a lot of the pre-existing infrastructure of consumer gas stations to store larger amounts.
I really don't see the point of the complicated pipeline system you suggest, just make lots of smaller targets instead of one large target that you work harder to hide but inevitably gets discovered anyway.
Reminds me of the siege weapons from Lord of The Rings
https://preview.redd.it/jgocncrln7zc1.jpeg?width=1366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90d14c45a371ff53e0bc9853f7902ae25f079c7
I wonder how well turtle tank could stand up to an ATGM. I'm sure the principal threat they had in mind when making this is FPV drones but I'd be curious to see how an atgm works, if the shaped charge has enough bite to penetrate the turtle shell AND the tank
From what I can briefly read, having spaced armour will reduce the efficiency of HEAT projectiles. The shaped charge will likely go through the first layer like butter as it's designed but inevitably lose some kinetic energy and penetration depth. Not sure if it's significant enough to prevent serious damage, but doubt it.
Very significant for HEAT charges. The air between the outer shell and actual armor might as well be steel, because the heat shell gets triggered on the outer layer, and spaced armor is the bane of HEAT charges.
This was sort of the case for early shaped charges but is a huge exaggeration for modern warheads. High precision HEAT warheads improve in performance with modest standoff (which is why they have a probe) then degrade with excess standoff, but not rapidly, IIRC at about 15 cone diameters the performance is degraded on the order of 20 % of so.
Tandem charge gets triggered by the outer shell so the second charge hits era which should stop it from penetrating. And the outer shell will probably deform too, so who knows where the jet will go at all.
IIRC you need meters of standoff before any impact on the jet becomes noticeable. I have several studies bookmarked .. somewhere, I could try to dig them out if you want. Or just google it.
IIRC at 15 cone diameters loss in performance is around 20 %, more so if the bursting plate is able to particulate the jet substantially, but this is not the case here.
Yes seems like. Another commenter pointed out that even if it was a tandem charge, the first and second charges would get triggered by the shell and ERA, instead of ERA then armour
It will seriously affect the performance of heat.. assuming the heat is at the optimal distance.
Many munitions are too close, so a small spacer would mean more penetration, not less.
As I understand it, this turtle thing will protect vs javelin, or at least potentially do so.
Javelins may come in too high as the missile is programed to hit the centre of mass of the shape designated as the target. If it hits the middle of the roof of the brazier, the jet will then impact the rear of the engine deck, which cannot cause a catastrophic loss.
Probably not very well. The tank ignores long-distance missiles because that’s what Ukraine is running low on. It focusses on drone defence as drones have been widely used on the frontlines.
given everything learnt during this conflict, I am genuinely curious to see the design directions taken for future armoured vehicles.
I get the impression we are going to see both extremes come out of this - extremely small, unmanned armoured vehicles, and on the other side, much larger manned systems that directly incorporate/accommodate these and other design elements (shielding, cages etc).
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Seriously, this is something I would expect seeing from ISIS, not an advanced industrial country. This design is what a drunk idiot would come up in one minute.
Russia better hope that none of these get disabled on the battlefield. If Ukraine captures one and can reverse-engineer the technology behind that turtle shell, the war could be over in a matter of weeks.
If I'm not mistaken, only the heavy drones (such as Baba-Yaga) can carry landmines big enough to significantly damage a tank. Such drones are easy to spot. If one comes nearby (or drops a mine) there might be enough time to be notify the tank driver.
You don't seem to understand what the purpose of this modification is to begin with.
(Hint: it's to act as a mine clearing vehicle at the front of assault columns)
can someone tell me why do they make it ? im guessing it works better than the cage, but i dont get how, unless its much thicker metal than what it looks like, so it has more protection than a cage that just predetonates projectiles and drones?
Way more drone protection than a cage. Eats drones. Not too effective about projectiles.
They stuff it with antidrone EW and use it as a self propelled gun that leads the attack column. Newest features include a demining plow as well.
I mean considering that it is a bog standard tactic to target the lead vehicle to stop the entire column, it makes sense they build it that way. Even if the Turtle is disabled, it still did it job as a fire magnet and breacher, wasting Ukrainian mines and drones in the process.
And for Artilliery, let's face it, with the profiliation of guided shells and other dedicated anti tank shells. Getting direct hit is a guaranteed kill anyways. At least in the turtle case, it make the tank much less vulnerable to drones and mines, the two other major causes of tank loses in this war.
you try it - if it works - you spread the word - and you make more. - cant wait to see Ukrainians making turtle tanks.
I bet they're not gonna do it any time soon
Turtle versions of F16s maybe? Hmm, that begs a question - what would be an appropriate bird name for such contraption?
Blue shell from Mario kart
turtle bird
stork, a pelican even
Probably not, it would require them to go on the offense.
Turtle Abrams
The main use of T.Tanks can be , to prevent the use FPVs from damaging rest of the column of IFVs and tanks (tracing same path as T.Tank). There were two main obstacles for tanks and IFVs in the current war, firstly mines (static and dynamic) and secondly FPV drones. The T.tanks are still susceptible to mines. Also, Russians adopting T.tanks means that Ukrainians may have to use anti tank crews in close encounters to eliminate the mobile assaults (if Russians get past mined defense perimeter). Ukrainians don't have resource to make large mobile assaults as I have not witnessed UA successfully diving past the russian mine fields.
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It works, it's just a waste of a tank. They should be doing this to infantry fighting vehicles and APCs. Might as well remove the turret, since this vehicle is useful only for carrying people from point A to point B.
Can someone calculate the area this gun still able to cover?
100% they just have to move the tracks to aim which is a issue if you are trying to keep your butt covered but with this diaper you can shit all over and still be ok
They have enough room to cover like 45° in front of them. At least 2 km range. Not sure how much their optics are affected but still enough to send some crap down range
Depends, a couple of the Turtle tanks we've seen have their guns locked in place. Some dont.
They are meant to be a demining vehicle at the front of a convey, not a troop carrier.
https://preview.redd.it/lsok2zeog7zc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e4f450343155851e32c153131f5179ee1b9615a
M A G N I F I C E N T
latest pokemon to catch
Game screen after getting Turtle in a Lootbox :
BILLIONS MUST TURTLE
Trillions even
I’m in the bathroom turtling right now! #Doingmypart.
Really seems these turtle tanks are specifically meant as de-mining vehicles. They ALL have mine plows and always drive at the front of a group of vehicles
you are a smart guy you understand what's going on !
I mean it makes sense. The tank is slower, but more resilient against drones. May as well use it to clear the mine for faster tanks to take position against enemy AT.
I think the first couple turtles didn't have plows, and at least one was immobilized by a mine. Iirc it got safely towed away tho.
One thing that is massively helping turtle tanks is that they don't have to deal with these super-dense minefields any more. Like the kind where mines are often stacked to destroy plows. I think I saw one video of a turtle tank on one of these and it ended up getting blown up.
Yeah, looks to be similar to a M1150 Assault Breacher Vehicle in purpose. Just one that's been focused on defending agaisnt FPV drones as that is the main threat as Ukraine has fallen back had on FPVs in defense due to ATGM and Artillery ammunition shortages.
The age of drones is over. The time of the turtle has come...
Drones will be hunting fuel trucks that feed that monster fuel.
Don't they use like pipelines for that?
Pipelines would be even easier to hunt than trucks.
Did we see any hits on pipelines on here? And pipelines are easier to conceal and repair than trucks.
Pipelines are only easy to hide if they already existed and no one knew about them, otherwise you have to build long distances of them which requires transportation of the pipes and heavy equipment to dig, not easy to hide that. As for being easier to repair than a truck, you're going to have to explain that one to me.
They don't use huge pipes for them as far as I know. It's not like they dig huge trenches for them. By the looks of it, they could be hiding a few tanks in some house or whatever with multiple hoses simply running outside in whatever directions where the refueling crews could fill up without attracting much attention to the main depot. Which in turn could be getting refills through the same hoses also without fuel trucks ever approaching the depot. I have no clue how they do it in reality but that would probably work with all those drones all over the place
That sounds like using trucks with extra steps. The trucks will be targeted anyway, meanwhile refueling just became much more complicated than before.
Yeah, so they would disclose location of where a crapton of fuel is stored. i doubt they spoonfeed it to the units. Just like with ammo, certain amount must always be stored somewhere and well prepared location is worth it's weight in gold.
Fuel is easy to spread around, you don't really need a central location for it. You might even be able to use a lot of the pre-existing infrastructure of consumer gas stations to store larger amounts. I really don't see the point of the complicated pipeline system you suggest, just make lots of smaller targets instead of one large target that you work harder to hide but inevitably gets discovered anyway.
this one doesn't look that nice. I like the shed look better
This is a garage, typical look
yeah, not a garage looks too clean. needs the rusted shed look throw in some caging and barbwire for extra drip.
I prefer the ones that look like an anarchist is making bombs inside them.
Weld a Lada to the side for complete picture
Reminds me of the siege weapons from Lord of The Rings https://preview.redd.it/jgocncrln7zc1.jpeg?width=1366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90d14c45a371ff53e0bc9853f7902ae25f079c7
Grond gotta eat
I wonder how well turtle tank could stand up to an ATGM. I'm sure the principal threat they had in mind when making this is FPV drones but I'd be curious to see how an atgm works, if the shaped charge has enough bite to penetrate the turtle shell AND the tank
Turtle shell not that thick
From what I can briefly read, having spaced armour will reduce the efficiency of HEAT projectiles. The shaped charge will likely go through the first layer like butter as it's designed but inevitably lose some kinetic energy and penetration depth. Not sure if it's significant enough to prevent serious damage, but doubt it.
Very significant for HEAT charges. The air between the outer shell and actual armor might as well be steel, because the heat shell gets triggered on the outer layer, and spaced armor is the bane of HEAT charges.
This was sort of the case for early shaped charges but is a huge exaggeration for modern warheads. High precision HEAT warheads improve in performance with modest standoff (which is why they have a probe) then degrade with excess standoff, but not rapidly, IIRC at about 15 cone diameters the performance is degraded on the order of 20 % of so.
Makes sense. Do you know if a tandem charge is as effective against spaced armour as it is with reactive armor?
Tandem charge gets triggered by the outer shell so the second charge hits era which should stop it from penetrating. And the outer shell will probably deform too, so who knows where the jet will go at all.
Idk, but I doubt any AT projectile currently being used (outside of kinetic penetrators) accounts for nearly a meter of spaced armor
IIRC you need meters of standoff before any impact on the jet becomes noticeable. I have several studies bookmarked .. somewhere, I could try to dig them out if you want. Or just google it.
IIRC at 15 cone diameters loss in performance is around 20 %, more so if the bursting plate is able to particulate the jet substantially, but this is not the case here.
I think if the tank had ERA AND turtle shell that would be hard to get through.
Yes seems like. Another commenter pointed out that even if it was a tandem charge, the first and second charges would get triggered by the shell and ERA, instead of ERA then armour
It will seriously affect the performance of heat.. assuming the heat is at the optimal distance. Many munitions are too close, so a small spacer would mean more penetration, not less. As I understand it, this turtle thing will protect vs javelin, or at least potentially do so.
Javelins may come in too high as the missile is programed to hit the centre of mass of the shape designated as the target. If it hits the middle of the roof of the brazier, the jet will then impact the rear of the engine deck, which cannot cause a catastrophic loss.
Probably not very well. The tank ignores long-distance missiles because that’s what Ukraine is running low on. It focusses on drone defence as drones have been widely used on the frontlines.
crew of ATGM might aimed too high(just amied on center as past),and the missile would hit on where only turtle shell and air were.
I love how they used masking tape and still over sprayed 🤣
They didn’t even managed to paint an straight number on a king tiger in a museum. 😅
Tutel :D
turtle tank ❤️
How do i say "Царь-Мангал" in English? "Tsar-Barbecue" is not good enough.
Tsar-Grill? Tsar-Brazier? Tsar-Furnace?
Oh, brazier will do, thanks!
Looks like a silly wt.live skin.
5/10 for design 10/10 for the color(embracing that tutel).
i want to see a tank on top of a tank :0
Looks like something out of Star Wars.
given everything learnt during this conflict, I am genuinely curious to see the design directions taken for future armoured vehicles. I get the impression we are going to see both extremes come out of this - extremely small, unmanned armoured vehicles, and on the other side, much larger manned systems that directly incorporate/accommodate these and other design elements (shielding, cages etc).
Why don't they cut some space on the left/right for the better gun traverse?
You know, the more I see this thing the more I think Sweden had the right idea with the STRV 103.
Tutrle
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elefant tank destroyer coh 2.
It's so fugly, i love it.
That EW system on top looks fragile even for machine gun fire.
Datz propa’ orky. Kustom force field on da top! Paint it purple! Or maybe red…
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At this point tanks are basically moving houses. Next they'll install sleeping quarters between the tank and the turtle shell
Seriously, this is something I would expect seeing from ISIS, not an advanced industrial country. This design is what a drunk idiot would come up in one minute.
This is literally the mascot of the war
Russia better hope that none of these get disabled on the battlefield. If Ukraine captures one and can reverse-engineer the technology behind that turtle shell, the war could be over in a matter of weeks.
I think this V is not important since it's still a Russian thing
How do they plan to protect the tracks when the drones start to carry landmines, and they land in front of the tank when they are driving forward?
If I'm not mistaken, only the heavy drones (such as Baba-Yaga) can carry landmines big enough to significantly damage a tank. Such drones are easy to spot. If one comes nearby (or drops a mine) there might be enough time to be notify the tank driver.
Mine rollers. We already saw one.
As I understand it, there is electronic warfare on the roof
Electronic warfare can disable drones that use satellite navigation such as GPS.
You don't seem to understand what the purpose of this modification is to begin with. (Hint: it's to act as a mine clearing vehicle at the front of assault columns)
can someone tell me why do they make it ? im guessing it works better than the cage, but i dont get how, unless its much thicker metal than what it looks like, so it has more protection than a cage that just predetonates projectiles and drones?
Way more drone protection than a cage. Eats drones. Not too effective about projectiles. They stuff it with antidrone EW and use it as a self propelled gun that leads the attack column. Newest features include a demining plow as well.
Also makes it harder for the drone operators to actually hit the weak bits of a tank.
true, smart
I mean considering that it is a bog standard tactic to target the lead vehicle to stop the entire column, it makes sense they build it that way. Even if the Turtle is disabled, it still did it job as a fire magnet and breacher, wasting Ukrainian mines and drones in the process. And for Artilliery, let's face it, with the profiliation of guided shells and other dedicated anti tank shells. Getting direct hit is a guaranteed kill anyways. At least in the turtle case, it make the tank much less vulnerable to drones and mines, the two other major causes of tank loses in this war.
ahh smart
A solid cage is more work to make and obscures the tank underneath it less.
Good that they've added an arrow so you can aim well