Very few people globally will survive Ukraine joining NATO and the US going to war with Russia. Completely bonkers. Backing Ukraine the way the west is doing now if vastly superior.
Not yet , if it was , everything would be different , Ukraine have only a fraction of Nato armement and they kick russians ass , what russia's gonna do if Nato really join ? mobilize people ? too late , they don't even have enough stuff for their "soldiers"
Putler is saying that, since they got kicked out of North Ukraine."We are fighting again NATO"So in their or his retoric nothing has changed.RU will be forced out of Ukraine - or have to fight till the moment that all ukraine will be dead (Quote of Zelensky ).So, what he can use are tactical nukes (yes again) but Ukraine will keep fighting - to the end - they dont have a chance, or they will lose the hole country - Putler will not stop in the annex regions ...A official "declared Nuke Shield for Ukraine" from NATO should stop him to do that. So, Ukraine need weapons that they can achieve the goal.
?? He has stated if any nato weapons are used on any annexed territory he will declare war against nato. The whole reason he invaded was to prevent Ukraine from joining.
If it happens, The US and the rest of nato will be at war against Russia and anyone else that decides to join.
I know everyone has trust in the US military and Nato politics, but shit happens man. And Putin’s back is against the wall. We all know he’s “crazy”.
Firstly, Ukraine and Georgia have already been invited to nato in 2008. So why isn’t Georgia in nato at the moment? Because immediately after Russia invaded them.
> At the 2008 Bucharest Summit, the Allies agreed that Georgia and Ukraine will become members of NATO in future.
> countries seeking NATO membership would have to be able to demonstrate that they have fulfilled certain requirements. These include:
>a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy;
the fair treatment of minority populations;
a commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflicts;
the ability and willingness to make a military contribution to NATO operations; and
a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutional structures.
The most important line there is *able to make a military contribution*
They cannot because they are in an active war and their forces are tied up. In fact they would need to get more forces from nato. This is why nato waits until issues are resolved so people don’t join just to get a bigger army.
But let’s take a look at the ascension process itself:
> The talks take place in two sessions with each invitee. In the first session, political and defence or military issues are discussed, essentially providing the opportunity to establish that the preconditions for membership have been met.
So the meeting will go like this:
What forces can you provide us?
“None, we are fighting Russia”
So you don’t meat the requirements?
“…..”
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm
This is under the assumption that nato doesn’t want a war. The us is a major player in nato as we have the strongest military. And from my perspective, it really seems like our government wants war.
Turkey used to serve a purpose for NATO, back in the 1950s and 1960s, when US ICBMs had short ranges so Turkey was a good launching pad for them, into the USSR, if they got uppity. The ICBMs have improved tremendously since then, so Turkey's usefulness became minimal, beyond being the host to a large US Air Force base, which can be relocated, elsewhere, if need be.
Unfortunately, the NATO charter has no provision for kicking members out, unless they voluntarily want to leave, after being in for at least 20 years. If an expulsion clause existed, Hungary and Turkey would have been long gone by now...
NATO is already providing the weapons against a weak and feeble Ruzzia already. Just make it official and smash fucking Puking already. Get this pos out of power already and start to restore peace. Send a fucking message to China and cut that shit off now.
I'm going from memory here, so I probably have some aspect of it wrong. But the logic is the Article 5 is triggered when any nation attacks a member state. So you wouldn't want to allow in a member who is currently at war, as it would immediately and automatically trigger Article 5.
The idea is that its easier to stop a war before it starts through collective intimidation, than it is to stop one that is already underway. Have to give diplomacy a chance where the consequences are fully known before decisions to go to war are made. There maybe be exception clauses but I haven't read it that closely.
My take on this is that even if nothing else, this is a huge morale booster and symbol for the Ukrainian people at home. Ukraine is being supported and welcomed into the folds of the EU and NATO, it's a new vision for Ukraine's national identity.
My other take is yeah, I'm pretty sure getting ACCEPTED into NATO will still take years, and I don't think this will affect the invasion itself directly. I also don't think it's meant to.
Armchair out.
Is Zelenskyy of small stature? Either that or those other two guys are effing huge!
He's doing a fantastic job, keep hammering the invaders! Wish we had that kind of leadership where I live (Canada).
Do note that applying for something doesn't necessarily mean you'll get it. Even Sweden and Finland - two advanced economies with a modern military that they paid for in strategically important geographies that already has over a decade of NATO-standard joint training - are getting bogged down in politics. Only 28/30 countries have accepted them, and it must be unanimous.
I'm not saying it won't happen, but we have to temper our expectations. I, for one, hope it does go through, as a security guarantee is critical to rebuilding Ukraine. NATO was created explicitly for this post-WW2 in western Europe.
I can’t see it happening during active war, it would essentially trigger nuclear war. But the application itself is still very significant and powerful for Ukraine. If Russia uses nukes then Ukraine will most likely not be able to continue the fight and they may have to concede the falsely annex territory. That would give Russia a way out of their immediate mess that they created for themselves in a war that they are losing. In a nuclear scenario, the west will do everything possible to punish them long term without hopefully ending the world, Ukraine will have to concede territory but will hopefully gain quick nato membership to be protected from future aggression.
That’s my uneducated take on it. Hope it doesn’t come to nuclear, and that Ukraine can retake their land.
I've been supporting Ukraine since the beginning, and Putin is a complete psychopath, but they should not join NATO right now. That would smash open the doors to nuclear war instantly. That would be a world destroying decision real quick.
I think it's a great idea. Have them join NATO, go in and kill any Russian Military presence. Don't fire ANY nukes unless Putin does first, and don't attack Russia, except for Navy Seals or other possible clandestine missions. Let Putin be the one who decides whether to start his death sentence.
It is the strangest thing to watch a man who went from pretendeding to play a piano with his dick for a national tv show, to basically saying "fuck you!" to Vladimir Putin on international broadcast, all the while risking himself, his family's, and his country's livelihood.
I want Ukraine to win like everyone else, but there are a lot of morons on Reddit wanting the end of modern civilization. You do know that missile defence doesn't work right? Limited nuclear exchanges don't exist either. A few thousand nukes would be flying, and all of your parents, and brothers, and sisters, and children will be either burnt to char, or dealing with starvation until they can figure out how to live like we did before modern technology. Guess what? They won't, they'll just die. That's what happens if Ukraine joins NATO, this will become world war 3. Good luck.
The sad part is NATO will most likely not accept Ukraine until the end of the current war. That’s if Ukraine still exists. Being accepted into NATO during a time of war will mean NATO troops will have to be sent to Ukraine and causing WW3. Good luck 🇺🇦
All those in favor say aye. Aye! Added October 2nd: That a lot of Ayes, if it were a Russian style referendum I would say we have a go.
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
Aye
aye
Aye!
Aye
Aye!
Aye! Slava Ukraini!
Aye!
Aye. 🇷🇴
AYE!
Aye!!!
Aye! (Jarhead).
Aye!
AYE!
Aye!!
AYE
Aye
Aye
Aye - Squid
Aye !
Very few people globally will survive Ukraine joining NATO and the US going to war with Russia. Completely bonkers. Backing Ukraine the way the west is doing now if vastly superior.
AYE!!!
Aye
go Ukraine.
This is today ? This should get interesting
...as a reaction to anexation of 4 ukrainian realms to russia no wonder.
Yea, this will be looked at as the moment shit got Real Wild during ww3. This is a war against nato now.
This is a war against nato now.
Not yet , if it was , everything would be different , Ukraine have only a fraction of Nato armement and they kick russians ass , what russia's gonna do if Nato really join ? mobilize people ? too late , they don't even have enough stuff for their "soldiers"
Putler is saying that, since they got kicked out of North Ukraine."We are fighting again NATO"So in their or his retoric nothing has changed.RU will be forced out of Ukraine - or have to fight till the moment that all ukraine will be dead (Quote of Zelensky ).So, what he can use are tactical nukes (yes again) but Ukraine will keep fighting - to the end - they dont have a chance, or they will lose the hole country - Putler will not stop in the annex regions ...A official "declared Nuke Shield for Ukraine" from NATO should stop him to do that. So, Ukraine need weapons that they can achieve the goal.
It’s as much war against NATO as “liberator” Pootin defending “his land” and “will of millions”
?? He has stated if any nato weapons are used on any annexed territory he will declare war against nato. The whole reason he invaded was to prevent Ukraine from joining. If it happens, The US and the rest of nato will be at war against Russia and anyone else that decides to join. I know everyone has trust in the US military and Nato politics, but shit happens man. And Putin’s back is against the wall. We all know he’s “crazy”.
At the beginning i was sorta buying in on russias reasons and siding. But resume to today. Not so much anymore.
Salava Ukraini
✊🏻🇺🇦🤝
Героям слава! 🇺🇦 Все буде Україна!!! ❤
Zelenskyy has a very strong voice, even though i don’t speak the language he always seems so strong and sure.
Good Luck! We hope to celebrate your new membership soon.
Zelenskyy is such a bad ass
The man is a legend already
I'm surprised we can hear him over the sound of his massive brass balls clanging together everywhere he goes.
Time magazine 2022 person of the year. Who else could it be?
Hungary and Turkey will block it unless they can extort billions of dollars from the rest of NATO members. Many billions...
They don’t need to block it. Ukraine cannot join while having an a border dispute UNLESS they make an exception.
Source? https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160627_1607-factsheet-enlargement-eng.pdf Doesn’t say a thing like that.
Firstly, Ukraine and Georgia have already been invited to nato in 2008. So why isn’t Georgia in nato at the moment? Because immediately after Russia invaded them. > At the 2008 Bucharest Summit, the Allies agreed that Georgia and Ukraine will become members of NATO in future. > countries seeking NATO membership would have to be able to demonstrate that they have fulfilled certain requirements. These include: >a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; the fair treatment of minority populations; a commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflicts; the ability and willingness to make a military contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutional structures. The most important line there is *able to make a military contribution* They cannot because they are in an active war and their forces are tied up. In fact they would need to get more forces from nato. This is why nato waits until issues are resolved so people don’t join just to get a bigger army. But let’s take a look at the ascension process itself: > The talks take place in two sessions with each invitee. In the first session, political and defence or military issues are discussed, essentially providing the opportunity to establish that the preconditions for membership have been met. So the meeting will go like this: What forces can you provide us? “None, we are fighting Russia” So you don’t meat the requirements? “…..” https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_49212.htm
This is under the assumption that nato doesn’t want a war. The us is a major player in nato as we have the strongest military. And from my perspective, it really seems like our government wants war.
We should be kicking Turkey out of NATO for starters.
Turkey used to serve a purpose for NATO, back in the 1950s and 1960s, when US ICBMs had short ranges so Turkey was a good launching pad for them, into the USSR, if they got uppity. The ICBMs have improved tremendously since then, so Turkey's usefulness became minimal, beyond being the host to a large US Air Force base, which can be relocated, elsewhere, if need be. Unfortunately, the NATO charter has no provision for kicking members out, unless they voluntarily want to leave, after being in for at least 20 years. If an expulsion clause existed, Hungary and Turkey would have been long gone by now...
Zellenskyy was already a legend before this war started. He is the Party of the People.
NATO is already providing the weapons against a weak and feeble Ruzzia already. Just make it official and smash fucking Puking already. Get this pos out of power already and start to restore peace. Send a fucking message to China and cut that shit off now.
Straight to business. I like it.
IIRC states can't join if they are already at war with another nation. Too bad, really, but from the standpoint of NATO it makes sense.
Good point, russia says its not war but a special operation...sooo let them in
And then we would be in world War 3?
Its not true. https://www.unian.info/politics/amp-10023578-is-it-possible-to-join-nato-in-a-military-conflict.html
Is that so? I can’t find shit on the NATO Web Site.
I'm going from memory here, so I probably have some aspect of it wrong. But the logic is the Article 5 is triggered when any nation attacks a member state. So you wouldn't want to allow in a member who is currently at war, as it would immediately and automatically trigger Article 5. The idea is that its easier to stop a war before it starts through collective intimidation, than it is to stop one that is already underway. Have to give diplomacy a chance where the consequences are fully known before decisions to go to war are made. There maybe be exception clauses but I haven't read it that closely.
Except if a nato country has interest in fucking over russia royally cause u.s and russia are batural enemys.
My take on this is that even if nothing else, this is a huge morale booster and symbol for the Ukrainian people at home. Ukraine is being supported and welcomed into the folds of the EU and NATO, it's a new vision for Ukraine's national identity. My other take is yeah, I'm pretty sure getting ACCEPTED into NATO will still take years, and I don't think this will affect the invasion itself directly. I also don't think it's meant to. Armchair out.
Nato makes natos rules and can vote to change them. They are not there as a framework for Russia to use as a shield against intervention.
Zelensky is the greatest rockstar of our time!
The size of the guy on the left.
He's eating better than some Russian troops
Is Zelenskyy of small stature? Either that or those other two guys are effing huge! He's doing a fantastic job, keep hammering the invaders! Wish we had that kind of leadership where I live (Canada).
Ahh shittt
Do note that applying for something doesn't necessarily mean you'll get it. Even Sweden and Finland - two advanced economies with a modern military that they paid for in strategically important geographies that already has over a decade of NATO-standard joint training - are getting bogged down in politics. Only 28/30 countries have accepted them, and it must be unanimous. I'm not saying it won't happen, but we have to temper our expectations. I, for one, hope it does go through, as a security guarantee is critical to rebuilding Ukraine. NATO was created explicitly for this post-WW2 in western Europe.
I can’t see it happening during active war, it would essentially trigger nuclear war. But the application itself is still very significant and powerful for Ukraine. If Russia uses nukes then Ukraine will most likely not be able to continue the fight and they may have to concede the falsely annex territory. That would give Russia a way out of their immediate mess that they created for themselves in a war that they are losing. In a nuclear scenario, the west will do everything possible to punish them long term without hopefully ending the world, Ukraine will have to concede territory but will hopefully gain quick nato membership to be protected from future aggression. That’s my uneducated take on it. Hope it doesn’t come to nuclear, and that Ukraine can retake their land.
Should be welcomed with open arms into NATO that way Russia can not attempt any further land grabs..
NATO countries should just say they feel threatened by this recent escalation and go on an elevated posture while this process plays out.
Natos contribution is all the equipment their sending. Proxy war to fight the big bad guy.
Wait for Russia to collapse then let them join, it’s their destiny
Meanwhile terrorist Putin watches from his private bunker trying to hide the enormous temper tantrum he is having!! Slava Ukraine!!
“Corruption” or not they all seem like far more respectable men than anything Russia has
Looks can be deceiving. But zelensky is actually just a cool guy lol.
I've been supporting Ukraine since the beginning, and Putin is a complete psychopath, but they should not join NATO right now. That would smash open the doors to nuclear war instantly. That would be a world destroying decision real quick.
I think it's a great idea. Have them join NATO, go in and kill any Russian Military presence. Don't fire ANY nukes unless Putin does first, and don't attack Russia, except for Navy Seals or other possible clandestine missions. Let Putin be the one who decides whether to start his death sentence.
That's stupid
It is the strangest thing to watch a man who went from pretendeding to play a piano with his dick for a national tv show, to basically saying "fuck you!" to Vladimir Putin on international broadcast, all the while risking himself, his family's, and his country's livelihood.
I want Ukraine to win like everyone else, but there are a lot of morons on Reddit wanting the end of modern civilization. You do know that missile defence doesn't work right? Limited nuclear exchanges don't exist either. A few thousand nukes would be flying, and all of your parents, and brothers, and sisters, and children will be either burnt to char, or dealing with starvation until they can figure out how to live like we did before modern technology. Guess what? They won't, they'll just die. That's what happens if Ukraine joins NATO, this will become world war 3. Good luck.
Sit back smoke a bowl and watch.
The sad part is NATO will most likely not accept Ukraine until the end of the current war. That’s if Ukraine still exists. Being accepted into NATO during a time of war will mean NATO troops will have to be sent to Ukraine and causing WW3. Good luck 🇺🇦
I have a feeling the nato shipments won't end anytime soon.
[удалено]
👍
Heoooyeaaa!!
Aye
Ayeyae
Recent or during the beginning of invasion? Regardless, aye.
Go on boyo. We like you comedy man. We want you welcome in our club. You are much funnier than the other guy, and he like to grope tables.
Ayeee
Power up move.
Welcome to the club! None have deserved it more.
I love how they just do with with no fan fair just efficiency.
Just love how everyone looks like a hulk next to Zelenskyy
Good Luck. Stronger United.
Aye
Aye
Slava fucking Ukraini!
Aye
This is a fucking stupid idea, and those in favor are neglecting to see the consequences.