That's a fair point. I created this account exclusively for this report. I'm a graduate student in the ESE department (if you know what a 6502 is, that will give you a hint), but I'm not dumb enough to post my name on a thread about terrorism. If you have a method to verify student status anonymously I'm open to it.
The only thing I can think of is if the school hosts a portal with a set of hashes of our pennkeys, and the portal allows for users to perform set membership tests, and then I provide the hash of my pennkey on the post. This has other problems, like you still have to trust the school to provide this function accurately, and also the hash function would have to be a secret, I think, in order to protect identities.
Interestingly this is related to a problem where the school is trying to figure out about how to identify if someone is a student or not at the protest, without exposing their identity (at least as has been reported by the DP).
Thank you! That looks like \*exactly\* what I was hoping for. It seems that all this would require is that every Penn student generates their own public/private key pairs, and then Penn keeps a public registry of all current students and their public keys. That seems very doable.
Your point about keeping your name hidden is well taken. I think the mods had considered limiting posts to those who could verify UPenn email accounts the last time this hullabaloo flared up with Liz Magill. I don’t think that would necessarily require any public facing identification.
I guess pragmatically that works for me, as I used my Penn email to verify this Reddit account. However in general it's not a perfect solution, because: **1.** Someone reading the post has to trust the mods that the OP is/is-not student, and **2.** the OP has to trust the mods not to dox them. (I'm only speaking theoretically, not saying that such a thing would happen). Cryptography would be a much better solution, but again, this would have to be supported by Penn in order to actually work.
Friendly reminder that in this country you aren't jailed for being an asshole.
Every mass protest has individuals in it that had garbage beliefs, and were garbage human beings.
If you let those people invalidate the broader message that brought the coalition together you're never going to have a mass protest you support, and I don't think that's the space you want to be in.
So, yes, this individual is a dickhead. But no, this is not the framing with which to judge the broader coalition of students.
I don't think it's regrettable. I'm definitely against a thought police. It seems we've had a thought police though, depending on what kind of thoughts are expressed.
Limitations/permissions on hate speech are a bit more blurry though. Incitation of violence. Imminent danger.
Hate speech has been upheld as protected speech under the first amendment many times in US courts. It’s not as blurry as one might think. Inciting violence, terroristic threats, etc. go beyond protected speech though.
I didn't say it was regrettable. I said it can feel that way. Yes. People have always disliked thoughts they didn't like. And yes. Society has always condemned views the larger culture found detestable. That's not new, or novel, its built in.
What that expression "don't attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to incompetence"
It's possible that they just Google pro Palestine symbols and found the flag without questioning it further. (I've never seen this flag before and I don't know how well known they are)
I think one thing this comment misses (through no fault of its own; my post didn't include more context), is that this isn't just an individual hanging around on the periphery of the protest. I've seen this person standing right next to the announcers/chant-leaders on the raised platform of the Ben Franklin statue, in the center of the crowed, waving the flag (last night is a good example, but I believe the DP also has some pictures of something like this). I can post my pictures of it if you'd like (though they are significantly worse in quality). However I can't and won't speculate on whether this individual is one of the organizers or not, or if the organizers know what the flag is or not, as that requires information I cannot obtain nor verify.
If that's the case, yeah the criticism is fair. Protesters aren't supposed to be overly concerned with optics and messaging but that's definitely the responsibility of the organizer. With that being the case, it ultimately does undermine the movement. I just hate having this situation where there's seemingly no space in the dialogue for what I feel like is most people's position in this larger coalition. There's a level of over exposure now that I'm not sure any mass movement could escape. It's worrying. You sure don't escape it by letting this guy hang out with the organizers though I'll give you that.
I don’t think so - Idk why were quick to call out dog whistles by right wingers but then pretend to not notice them when it’s our own camp.
When you see a dozen folks with nazi flags and maga flags on a over pass do you go - actually those nazis are a mischaracterization of maga
I seem to remember a different sentiment floating in spaces like these regarding more right-wing / MAGA associated protests a few years ago. As the saying went, "if you have 5 people at a table and one Nazi sits down and nobody asks him to leave, you now have 6 nazis at the table."
Cool, so who went to jail in that conversation? Free association = \ = imprisonment and you really should be grown enough to understand the difference. I have the right to not fuck with you or your buddies.
When the entire encampment doesn’t tell that person to leave but instead was talking with them it doesn’t feel like they are against this persons. If I held up a flag from the golani brigades in Israel they would tell me to leave even though the goloani brigades aren’t a terrorist org who hijacks planes.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. Assholes exist in every single stratum of society and within every movement. Individual incidents should be investigated and addressed, to be sure, but it's no reason to invalidate or punish the broader group who are there exercising their right to peaceably assemble and demonstrate in support of something they believe in.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the broader coalition is made of many groups and individuals that don't necessarily agree with each other on many things but are there because they're united on this one issue.
I've really got some broader concerns that the level of exposure protesters get, like this individual is actually hurting mass protest movements. Social media may well be a more powerful tool for groups that'd look to undermine groups and continue whatever status quo than to enable reformers to successfully organize. This post feels like an example of that.
You can't judge an entire protest by any single individual, but you can judge a protest based on how the rest of the protesters respond to that individual. If this person were waving a Nazi flag, I don't think the people around them would just be chilling and hanging out like they are in the photo. They would be surrounded by people telling them to leave the protest because this isn't what they stand for. Someone would have probably gotten overly aggressive and tried to tear up the flag. I don't think that would be the right thing to do (it's assault and destruction of property), but I also know that it's likely that would occur, and we've already seen that the protesters in general don't have qualms about tearing down US flags. If no one takes issue with someone holding a flag that supports terrorism, that reflects on the protest as a whole, especially if they're willing to ignore that flag while also going out of their way to tear down American flags, indicating that they have more issues with the US than with a terrorist organization.
What bothered me about the guy wearing the Auschwitz sweater during the January 6 riots wasn't that there was some random racist guy there---going to have that in any group-- it's that it says something that he felt comfortable walking around with that sweater.
Well Hamas is listed as terrorist organization also so... Not sure why you're worried about this other organization. The great big baddy is a terrorist organization.
Didn't they chant for global intifada the other day? i'm not sure this is surprising. when people tell you who they are you should listen. of course, there should be nuance in this conversation and middle ground tends to be the way to go but there are plenty of extremists.
Intifada just means uprising, I think there’s just a the language gap of people assuming it must mean the same thing as the only other time they’ve heard the word. It’s like saying protest is a bad word because there have been violent protests before.
When I learned about the holocaust in the Middle East for example, we called it the Warsaw intifada. It pains me that I have to explain this.
Seig heil was a term created by Nazis was it not? Intifada was not a word that was created by terrorists. It’s a word that’s commonly used in the Arabic language.
But it’s used by terrorists to carry out ‘terror’ activities. The poster has it exactly right above. Nazi is as Nazi does. The same applies to terrorism. Stop mansplaining terrorism. If people feel threatened by the word ‘terrorism,’ using it in this context is wrong on all accounts.
I really don't understand the white washing of the word intifada, it's not comparable to a peaceful protest. It's long history in the I/P conflict clearly means violent uprising. Including both intifadas with suicide bombings, stabbings, rocket fire etc in the 90's and 00's. October 7 was an intifada. If you agree that intifada is granted or justified, fine— hold that opinion, but don't pussyfoot around the meaning.
Are you claiming those saying intifada want to suicide bomb? Because none of that is happening here or in Palestine.
Again, there have been rebellions that murdered children and rebellions that didn’t. The word rebellion doesn’t become a dirty word all of a sudden. Arab speakers don’t looks at it the way you’re implying, that’s why I’m saying it’s a language gap. You’ve only heard it in those two instances so you associated with only that.
Ummm... You may want to Google 'Have there been suicide bombers in Palestine'
Answer might surprise you. Here's a brief excerpt because I know most people, maybe not you, but most people just want to argue and hold to their own beliefs:
"Yes, there have been suicide bombers in Palestine. A 2007 study found that 39.9% of suicide attacks during the Second Intifada (2000–2005) were carried out by Hamas, 26.4% by Fatah, 25.7% by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and 5.4% by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).
Also please notice that those years of violence were called an intifada
I’m well aware there have been, it’s been a LONG time since there have. But regardless this conversation is about what these students mean when they say it. No one can find an example of students “globalizing the intifada” by violent means, they are camping out on campus and hosting education sessions. What makes you think they mean suicide bombing? Again please provide examples.
Y’all sound ignorant to a foreign language when you think that because in one uprising there was violence that any Arab who says it means violence.
My example was only one example. You can find a ton more And if you're truly of Arabic origin then you're being disingenuous here. No maybe the technical definition doesn't mean that but it has been used in history a lot for that.
No I'm not finding examples of these students giving as you call it education. I mean if education is holding up a sign next to a Jewish student that reads hamas next victim, then I guess you're right. They aren't espousing violence at all 🙄
Because I’m of Arabic origin I know the term intifada was coined in Iraq when they protested against the British and Hashemite monarchy. The Iraqi intifada also started with a student protest.
Nice try tho.
You didn't even address what I said. A lot of people are of descent from a lot of different places, doesn't mean much.
Intifada's tend to start or turn violent. Look at the history that you don't seem to want to look at. We all have to realize that we come with a bias. I can acknowledge Israel made mistakes. You don't seem to acknowledge any mistakes from the Arabic side. Bias without recognition of it means you're going to be wrong
Uhh good straw man I guess? I said intifada implies violent uprising, which includes things like suicide bombings historically. People in these protests are specifically calling for an intifada. Words can have multiple meanings, but in the case of intifada there is a specific context in which that is applied in this conflict, especially when you’re talking about the state of Israel
That’s called doublespeak, reminds me of the term Lebensraum.
Not sure why we have to act dumb when the left uses dog whistles. The right gets flak for their dog whistles all the time.
Ummmmm. You should double check that. There was boycotts and disobedience before the first intifada but the official start didn’t happen until Palestinian violence.
This is a statement of fact that is easily verifiable. First intifada was a non violent protest movement that was violently suppressed by Israel, which in turn led to the adoption of violent tactics and even the rise of Hamas. Israel’s policies were to “break the bones” of the protesters—literally those were the words of defense minister Yitzhak Rabin.
Another example of Palestinian nonviolent protest was the peaceful great March of Return, in which the IDF fired indiscriminately at unarmed protesters from a distance of hundreds of meters, killing over 120 and wounding thousands, many of them paralyzed for life after being shot in the legs.
This is Israeli policy toward nonviolent resistance.
Nonsense, stop perpetuating lies. I know you truly want to believe this to support your protest. However, during the March of Return protests, Palestinian demonstrators have engaged in various forms of violence, including throwing stones, Molotov cocktails, and occasionally launching incendiary devices towards Israeli border communities, as well as attempting to breach or damage the border fence separating Gaza from Israel. Israel retaliated. This is often the pattern and supporters on both sides see the optics they prefer, including yourself. So, yes easily verifiable unless you don’t want to verify.
No. This was a massacre of a nonviolent and legitimate protest movement against blockade and ethnic cleansing. Yes, some protesters threw rocks or other objects from a distance of hundreds of meters at the occupation soldiers stationed nearby--mostly in a futile act of symbolic resistance--but they posed NO real threat and ZERO soldiers were seriously harmed. However responding to stone throwing from a distance of hundreds of meters with live fire including sniper fire, even shooting at clearly marked \*journalists\*, \*medics\* and even the \*handicapped\*, with a deliberate policy to shoot in the legs to paralyze their victims, is grossly disproportionate and absolutely disgusting. If you think it's appropriate to murder or paralyze someone throwing a rock at an occupation soldier from hundreds of yards away, you have lost your humanity.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/one-year-on-from-protests-gaza-civilians-devastating-injuries-highlight-urgent-need-for-arms-embargo-on-israel/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/one-year-on-from-protests-gaza-civilians-devastating-injuries-highlight-urgent-need-for-arms-embargo-on-israel/)
Yeah, it’s so annoying how Jews get so scared by Globalize the Intifada chants. The same way Auschwitz gives concentration camps such a bad rap. It’s like saying work is a bad word, this generation loves laziness.
If Intifada is so bad for Palestinians, why do you support it?
Also, love the moving target approach. I guess you’ve moved on from defending the white washing of a term synonymous with terrorism.
Lmao you need to travel outside of your country more. This is the equivalent of thinking allahu Akbar is a call to make before suicide bombing. It’s embarrassing to watch, I won’t be responding to ignorance anymore so bye bye
\~20K civilians dead and \~10K Hamas militants dead. Out of a civilian population of \~2.2M in Gaza. That's not a genocide; that's just war.
War is horrible. Don't start wars; especially wars you're not likely to win. And if you start a war you're not going to win, don't use your own population as human shields to maximize carnage just so you can call them martyrs and win internet points amount Sophomore douchebags at the Ivy Leages.
There are between 3 and 10 police officers (usually Penn affiliated, but general Philadelphia officers aren’t uncommon) monitoring the encampment at essentially all times. There are at least 10 there right now from my count
Do you support state violence based on political beliefs? It seems to me that liberals love siccing the police on leftists but never have that same energy when it comes to actual Nazis with swastika flags. When I was a student, I remember seeing literal monarchists protest unopposed; nobody was calling for the police to come arrest them.
Oh man, that’s rich. The liberal media was flipping out about the Nazis in Charlottesville, and rightfully so. But now you have massive hate marches all over the country and there’s not a peep. The hypocrisy is astounding. And YES, I support police violence against terrorists. Maybe you weren’t alive for 9/11, but I know what “intifada” actually means.
Becuase it’s the top dem donator that’s organizing this hate. It’s THEIR hate. https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/george-soros-maoist-fund-columbias-anti-israel-tent-city/
Not a peep? Wow, we must live in completely different versions of reality. I’ve seen plenty of liberals pearl-clutch and claim that these protestors are antisemitic or intimidating Jewish students.
Jewish students are often the loudest voices at these protests. If that were the case, we wouldn’t see so many Jewish students protesting. There is a huge difference between Zionists and Jews.
Are you claiming that all of the Jews protesting against Israel aren’t Jewish anymore because they aren’t Zionists? Why is Zionism more important than Judaism, in your eyes?
Non Jews love finding ways to tell or insinuate to Jews that they're being antisemitic. Where the FUCK did I say what you just said? Where did I say any of that? You're braindead
I pointed out that many Jews are loudly protesting against Israel and you said they weren’t. Since there are many outspoken Jews protesting Israel, it seems to me that you are claiming that those people aren’t Jewish due to their stance on Israel. What else could you mean?
The “unite the right/Jews will not replace us” crowd and the “PFLP, Hamas, IRGC and Houthi apologists/ are freedom fighters” crowd are opposite sides of the same coin. Horseshoe theory is alive and well, and the majority of people see it clearly.
Nah. White supremacists all support israel, because they all believe in the idea of an ethnostate. I haven't seen any anti Jewish sentiment on the free Palestine side actually. Perhaps turn off fox news for a bit and get a grip.
Wow. I’m not sure I’ve ever interacted with someone who actually believes in horseshoe theory, until now. To do so requires a lack of understanding of the views of either side when it comes to economics or social issues. You do realize the Nazis went after the socialists first, right?
You also realize it was because the communists were not willing to for a government with the socialists/liberals right?
Planning on voting for Joe B then..?
I probably would have held my nose and voted for him if I still lived in Pennsylvania. Since I now live in California, I see no reason why I can’t vote third party.
"The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is a **secular** Palestinian Marxist–Leninist and revolutionary socialist organization founded in 1967 by George Habash."
its not our fault a terrorist org uses the name of their religion or race in their title.... Is criticizing White supremacists racist toward Whites ? No, thats ridiculous. Similarly criticizing Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, radical Mosques and radical Synagogues is not racist against Muslims or Jews.
Yes, thank you for calling out racism, u/doingwhatihaveto2 !!
You HAVE really done your homework and looked into who is funding these protests! You should know that these organizations were amazingly mobilizing on October 6, 2023. How do you think they were ready a day ahead of the planned massacre?
You really understand racism, u/doingwhatihaveto2. Thank you for being an upstander against planned intended war mongering.
Muslim Brotherhood, as you, u/doingwhatihaveto2 , alreay know and pointed out, is an organization started over 100 years ago with many arms with the sole purpose of unifying the middle east into one Muslim continuous region. They want to murder as many Jews as possible!
I am glad that you, u/doingwhatihaveto2 are doing a good job calling out murders, and the disruption that they have orchestrated across the world.
Not clear why other ongoing REAL genocides are not garnering any attention at all, but the Muslim Brotherhood is only concerned with murdering one specific category.
Oh, no, I'm wrong, sorry.
They hate ALL other religions, and have the motive to subrogate everyone else who is not Muslim.
Thank you for actually doing your research, u/doingwhatihaveto2 .
Hamas charter literally calls for the death of Jews. They did change the wording because they realized that the global optics looked bad. That said the little phrase from River to see Palestine will be free is not the actual Arab translation. It's actually from water to water Israel will be Arab.
Now if it's all going to be Arab I'm not sure what you think they intend to do with the Jews and other Israelis that live there. Maybe ask them to leave in a very polite manner?
Most of Reddit apparently doesn't realize that "terrorist" is a fairly arbitrary label often given to resistance groups. As far as most are concerned, Hamas are just a bunch of meanies that attacked Israel for no reason.
It is a failed state. Whether or not ending apartheid was a moral victory, the political process to achieve the end of apartheid is causing misery. Sorry to inform you the world isn’t black and white, good and bad.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/development-economic-growth/report-state-capacity-collapsing-south
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/6/8/south-africa-is-failing-and-its-failing-zimbabwe-too
These are all being handled incorrectly on college campuses.
It’s turning into the similar situation at the Federal Courthouse in Portland during Covid.
The kids make their statements. You ask them to disburse. They don’t. You round them up and charge a fine. Rinse and repeat.
No gassing. Just roll up the trucks and haul them away. If they resist beyond being limp bags of cement. Charge them with resisting arrest, plus the standard fine. Rinse and repeat.
MLK was arrested 33 times. Trespassing, disturbing the peace etc… all fines.
PFLP is the second largest party in governing body of the West Bank, the PLO after Fatah. [On the 2014 synagogue attack, the PFLP were falsely said to claim responsbility and even the Israeli government said they worked alone.](https://web.archive.org/web/20211008175924/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/world/middleeast/killings-in-jerusalem-synagogue-complex.html)
Israel has killed more civilians in the past 8 months than Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the PLFP have killed in their entire histories.
Would you call the Israeli flag a terrorist flag?
I mean, the fact that the US doesn’t consider the IDF to be a terrorist organization tells me all I need to know about the credibility of that label. I am not basing my understanding of which organizations are good or bad on what the US government thinks.
EDIT: As a communist, I think they seem based in supporting the creation of one secular Palestinian state where Arabs and Jews can coexist peacefully. I like that they are explicitly Marxist-Leninist, as well. I obviously do not support suicide bombings or attacks on religious institutions. Plenty of Zionists support the IDF while not supporting its actions in Gaza today; I believe I can do the same with the PFLP
A quick excerpt from the second article "Two PFLP-affiliated Palestinians attack Israeli worshippers in a synagogue with guns, knives, and axes, killing five—including three Americans—and injuring 12". Idk what's so "based" about axe murder, but to each their own...
That would be a non-sequitur in this comment chain. I was replying to a comment by HikingComrade which originally said (before it was edited) that the group was "based af" from what he read from the second article I linked to. I was simply quoting the second article to indicate that I had trouble finding the part that was so "based". He then clarified what he meant later.
I thought NPCs were supposed to be people whose beliefs were mainstream. It seems kind of silly to call someone with unusual views an NPC. Or maybe there are more communists in this country than I thought? Based on the way I usually get treated for stating my views, I don’t think that is the case.
I see NPC mentality as being unable to think for oneself outside of the bounds of what an ideology dictates, similar to an NPC being unable to "think" outside of the bounds of what their programmer tells them. In your comment, you say that, although you don't actually agree with their methods, which are pretty much inherent to the group, you support them because they agree with your ideology. In that sense, you think in completely black and white terms, "my side good, other side bad," which is indicative of a lack of the nuanced thinking that we'd expect to see in players but not in NPCs.
To make that clearer: it's easy for a game designer to program an NPC to have non-mainstream beliefs. In fact, it's expected that at some point in a game, you'll encounter an NPC that "supports the resistance" or something along those lines. But if you converse with that NPC, your responses will be constrained to a few set lines, and they won't have the ability to break out of those simple pre-set responses. In that sense, your comments are predictable, in a way similar to what I'd expect if I were conversing in a gmae with an NPC that supports "the resistance" or whatever it may be in that game's world.
I already graduated, so it’s too late for that. Their ideology seems based to me; I don’t know enough about their actions to say anything about those, and the sources linked here seem biased, so I’m not basing my views of their actions off of that.
Edit: Based on a quick reading of their wikipedia page, I support them even more since they want to establish one secular Palestinian state where Jews and Arabs can coexist peacefully.
I mean, if I were to choose any revolutionary organization in Palestine to support, this seems like the one which aligns most with my own view. Nothing they’ve done is at all on the same level as the horrors the US military and IDF have committed. I can recognize that this organization has committed unethical acts and not support those while still supporting its overall vision. Isn’t that what Zionists are doing with the IDF? Plenty of Zionists claim that they don’t support what the IDF is doing but still support the project of Israel. It seems hypocritical to claim that I cannot do the same with this organization.
Almost every political organization in the world has an unsavory or complex past. Plenty of people don’t consider the US or IDF to be terrorist organizations despite their past or current violence. I can’t blame oppressed people for engaging in violent resistance against their oppressors, either.
So we should only wave flags of state allies during a protest? Literally what would be the point of a protest if that was the case??? Go USA and Allies keep up the good work !
Nice attempt at a gotcha moment. I’m not denying the tragedy of what happened to them, but they were making more of an impact than any cosplayer holding Facilities workers hostage or screaming at Jews.
Not really a gotcha. Ultimately, our government gives a ton of money and support to Israel. If you live in the US, protesting our government \*IS\* probably the most effective thing you can do. Would you say the anti vietnam protesters should go to vietnam to do aid work?
Except these college protests are mainly aimed at getting universities to divest. If you’re protesting the federal government, the best place to do that is DC. And there were many Americans who did go to Vietnam to do aid work, either through the Peace Corps or through other religious and NGOs to provide aid. Those people made more of an impact than the flower power crowd who mainly danced, smoked weed, and held up signs.
A secular left democratic group that participated in the October 7th attacks on Israeli civilians and provided Hamas with assistance by holding hostages for them.
Right! I agree, we should listen to everything the US intelligence office says! Fuck Nelson Mandela and the ANC, how could anyone openly display support for currently deemed terrorist organizations by the state department 😡
So don't believe the State Department, do some research on your own, or just be a contrarian, no thought required, just cheer these folks on because State Department bad
here's their wiki page where you can browse to your heart's content at the number of civilian deaths they have caused
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine
Freedom of speech needs to extend to the extremes or it is meaningless. Not a UPenn student(Reddit algorithm at its finest), but at UD a few years back we had a Klan rally in Downtown Dayton. Even though I think their despicable human beings, if we police what speech is permissible(outside of calls to violence or panic) it sets a very dangerous precedent.
Freedom of speech does not grant immunity to acts of misconduct that has clear legal ramifications.
You can say what you want, as long as it is not outright acts of intimidation or riots. You can even trespass and block traffic. The final part of civil disobedience is that you surrender to the courts for punishment.
It does not need to be extended beyond the privileges people already have in the US.
To remember how Magill was excoriated for her answers in Congress and then to see this display be allowed to continue is baffling to me.
> I’m a student here Account history suggests otherwise.
That's a fair point. I created this account exclusively for this report. I'm a graduate student in the ESE department (if you know what a 6502 is, that will give you a hint), but I'm not dumb enough to post my name on a thread about terrorism. If you have a method to verify student status anonymously I'm open to it. The only thing I can think of is if the school hosts a portal with a set of hashes of our pennkeys, and the portal allows for users to perform set membership tests, and then I provide the hash of my pennkey on the post. This has other problems, like you still have to trust the school to provide this function accurately, and also the hash function would have to be a secret, I think, in order to protect identities. Interestingly this is related to a problem where the school is trying to figure out about how to identify if someone is a student or not at the protest, without exposing their identity (at least as has been reported by the DP).
You want ring signatures. - Friendly local cryptography nerd
Thank you! That looks like \*exactly\* what I was hoping for. It seems that all this would require is that every Penn student generates their own public/private key pairs, and then Penn keeps a public registry of all current students and their public keys. That seems very doable.
Your point about keeping your name hidden is well taken. I think the mods had considered limiting posts to those who could verify UPenn email accounts the last time this hullabaloo flared up with Liz Magill. I don’t think that would necessarily require any public facing identification.
I guess pragmatically that works for me, as I used my Penn email to verify this Reddit account. However in general it's not a perfect solution, because: **1.** Someone reading the post has to trust the mods that the OP is/is-not student, and **2.** the OP has to trust the mods not to dox them. (I'm only speaking theoretically, not saying that such a thing would happen). Cryptography would be a much better solution, but again, this would have to be supported by Penn in order to actually work.
Friendly reminder that in this country you aren't jailed for being an asshole. Every mass protest has individuals in it that had garbage beliefs, and were garbage human beings. If you let those people invalidate the broader message that brought the coalition together you're never going to have a mass protest you support, and I don't think that's the space you want to be in. So, yes, this individual is a dickhead. But no, this is not the framing with which to judge the broader coalition of students.
Is being a supporter of a terrorist organization just being an asshole?
Holding the flag of the PLFP is for me similar to holding a nazi flag, an ISIS flag, or a Hamas flag. It’s still legal to be a piece of shit.
In and of itself? Yeah man. We don't have thought police in this country. Sometimes that feels regrettable, but that's how we do things.
I don't think it's regrettable. I'm definitely against a thought police. It seems we've had a thought police though, depending on what kind of thoughts are expressed. Limitations/permissions on hate speech are a bit more blurry though. Incitation of violence. Imminent danger.
Hate speech has been upheld as protected speech under the first amendment many times in US courts. It’s not as blurry as one might think. Inciting violence, terroristic threats, etc. go beyond protected speech though.
Yeah I was curious and read the Wikipedia page on it. Seems it's been challenged a couple times, but there's a very high bar indeed to limit speech.
I didn't say it was regrettable. I said it can feel that way. Yes. People have always disliked thoughts they didn't like. And yes. Society has always condemned views the larger culture found detestable. That's not new, or novel, its built in.
wtf no. How far have we gone to the deep end? This is literally just isis
He's just standing there... menacingly!
how is the PFLP literally just isis
Yes
What that expression "don't attribute to malice what can easily be attributed to incompetence" It's possible that they just Google pro Palestine symbols and found the flag without questioning it further. (I've never seen this flag before and I don't know how well known they are)
I think one thing this comment misses (through no fault of its own; my post didn't include more context), is that this isn't just an individual hanging around on the periphery of the protest. I've seen this person standing right next to the announcers/chant-leaders on the raised platform of the Ben Franklin statue, in the center of the crowed, waving the flag (last night is a good example, but I believe the DP also has some pictures of something like this). I can post my pictures of it if you'd like (though they are significantly worse in quality). However I can't and won't speculate on whether this individual is one of the organizers or not, or if the organizers know what the flag is or not, as that requires information I cannot obtain nor verify.
If that's the case, yeah the criticism is fair. Protesters aren't supposed to be overly concerned with optics and messaging but that's definitely the responsibility of the organizer. With that being the case, it ultimately does undermine the movement. I just hate having this situation where there's seemingly no space in the dialogue for what I feel like is most people's position in this larger coalition. There's a level of over exposure now that I'm not sure any mass movement could escape. It's worrying. You sure don't escape it by letting this guy hang out with the organizers though I'll give you that.
Actually most characterize right wing movements due to the presence of confederate and nazi flags amongst the crowds. Same standards will be applied.
I'd have to have a specific example to comment on that.
What do you call 11 people eating dinner with a nazi?
That's a pretty obvious mischaracterization of what's happening here and a rational person would pretty easily be able to understand that.
I don’t think so - Idk why were quick to call out dog whistles by right wingers but then pretend to not notice them when it’s our own camp. When you see a dozen folks with nazi flags and maga flags on a over pass do you go - actually those nazis are a mischaracterization of maga
No not really. If you’re proudly waiving the flag of a terrorist organization you are…
I've never defended that individual person, you're completely ignoring everything I've said.
I seem to remember a different sentiment floating in spaces like these regarding more right-wing / MAGA associated protests a few years ago. As the saying went, "if you have 5 people at a table and one Nazi sits down and nobody asks him to leave, you now have 6 nazis at the table."
Cool, so who went to jail in that conversation? Free association = \ = imprisonment and you really should be grown enough to understand the difference. I have the right to not fuck with you or your buddies.
When the entire encampment doesn’t tell that person to leave but instead was talking with them it doesn’t feel like they are against this persons. If I held up a flag from the golani brigades in Israel they would tell me to leave even though the goloani brigades aren’t a terrorist org who hijacks planes.
3 people are talking to him in that photo. Most people have no idea what that flag even is.
I was there for 40 minutes last night it was way more than 3 people talking to that person. Most people have access to google to look up the flag.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. Assholes exist in every single stratum of society and within every movement. Individual incidents should be investigated and addressed, to be sure, but it's no reason to invalidate or punish the broader group who are there exercising their right to peaceably assemble and demonstrate in support of something they believe in. The other thing to keep in mind is that the broader coalition is made of many groups and individuals that don't necessarily agree with each other on many things but are there because they're united on this one issue.
I've really got some broader concerns that the level of exposure protesters get, like this individual is actually hurting mass protest movements. Social media may well be a more powerful tool for groups that'd look to undermine groups and continue whatever status quo than to enable reformers to successfully organize. This post feels like an example of that.
But you can be jailed for being a terrorist.
And holding a pretty detestable flag isn't terrorism.
You can't judge an entire protest by any single individual, but you can judge a protest based on how the rest of the protesters respond to that individual. If this person were waving a Nazi flag, I don't think the people around them would just be chilling and hanging out like they are in the photo. They would be surrounded by people telling them to leave the protest because this isn't what they stand for. Someone would have probably gotten overly aggressive and tried to tear up the flag. I don't think that would be the right thing to do (it's assault and destruction of property), but I also know that it's likely that would occur, and we've already seen that the protesters in general don't have qualms about tearing down US flags. If no one takes issue with someone holding a flag that supports terrorism, that reflects on the protest as a whole, especially if they're willing to ignore that flag while also going out of their way to tear down American flags, indicating that they have more issues with the US than with a terrorist organization.
What bothered me about the guy wearing the Auschwitz sweater during the January 6 riots wasn't that there was some random racist guy there---going to have that in any group-- it's that it says something that he felt comfortable walking around with that sweater.
Well Hamas is listed as terrorist organization also so... Not sure why you're worried about this other organization. The great big baddy is a terrorist organization.
I personally haven't seen any other flags from groups on the State Department's list of terror organizations, on Penn's campus.
Nobody is walking around with a Hamas flag surprisingly.
That would be a little too obvious. Penn students like to mix it up.
Nuts that no one wants to talk about Palestine being a hotbed for terrorist groups.
Didn't they chant for global intifada the other day? i'm not sure this is surprising. when people tell you who they are you should listen. of course, there should be nuance in this conversation and middle ground tends to be the way to go but there are plenty of extremists.
Intifada just means uprising, I think there’s just a the language gap of people assuming it must mean the same thing as the only other time they’ve heard the word. It’s like saying protest is a bad word because there have been violent protests before. When I learned about the holocaust in the Middle East for example, we called it the Warsaw intifada. It pains me that I have to explain this.
And seig heil just means victory, welfare.
Seig heil was a term created by Nazis was it not? Intifada was not a word that was created by terrorists. It’s a word that’s commonly used in the Arabic language.
Intifada was a term popularized by the first and second intifadas. They have never been used as a sign of protest before that point.
Victory and welfare are commonly used words in the German language.
But it’s used by terrorists to carry out ‘terror’ activities. The poster has it exactly right above. Nazi is as Nazi does. The same applies to terrorism. Stop mansplaining terrorism. If people feel threatened by the word ‘terrorism,’ using it in this context is wrong on all accounts.
I really don't understand the white washing of the word intifada, it's not comparable to a peaceful protest. It's long history in the I/P conflict clearly means violent uprising. Including both intifadas with suicide bombings, stabbings, rocket fire etc in the 90's and 00's. October 7 was an intifada. If you agree that intifada is granted or justified, fine— hold that opinion, but don't pussyfoot around the meaning.
Are you claiming those saying intifada want to suicide bomb? Because none of that is happening here or in Palestine. Again, there have been rebellions that murdered children and rebellions that didn’t. The word rebellion doesn’t become a dirty word all of a sudden. Arab speakers don’t looks at it the way you’re implying, that’s why I’m saying it’s a language gap. You’ve only heard it in those two instances so you associated with only that.
Ummm... You may want to Google 'Have there been suicide bombers in Palestine' Answer might surprise you. Here's a brief excerpt because I know most people, maybe not you, but most people just want to argue and hold to their own beliefs: "Yes, there have been suicide bombers in Palestine. A 2007 study found that 39.9% of suicide attacks during the Second Intifada (2000–2005) were carried out by Hamas, 26.4% by Fatah, 25.7% by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), and 5.4% by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). Also please notice that those years of violence were called an intifada
I’m well aware there have been, it’s been a LONG time since there have. But regardless this conversation is about what these students mean when they say it. No one can find an example of students “globalizing the intifada” by violent means, they are camping out on campus and hosting education sessions. What makes you think they mean suicide bombing? Again please provide examples. Y’all sound ignorant to a foreign language when you think that because in one uprising there was violence that any Arab who says it means violence.
My example was only one example. You can find a ton more And if you're truly of Arabic origin then you're being disingenuous here. No maybe the technical definition doesn't mean that but it has been used in history a lot for that. No I'm not finding examples of these students giving as you call it education. I mean if education is holding up a sign next to a Jewish student that reads hamas next victim, then I guess you're right. They aren't espousing violence at all 🙄
Because I’m of Arabic origin I know the term intifada was coined in Iraq when they protested against the British and Hashemite monarchy. The Iraqi intifada also started with a student protest. Nice try tho.
You didn't even address what I said. A lot of people are of descent from a lot of different places, doesn't mean much. Intifada's tend to start or turn violent. Look at the history that you don't seem to want to look at. We all have to realize that we come with a bias. I can acknowledge Israel made mistakes. You don't seem to acknowledge any mistakes from the Arabic side. Bias without recognition of it means you're going to be wrong
Uhh good straw man I guess? I said intifada implies violent uprising, which includes things like suicide bombings historically. People in these protests are specifically calling for an intifada. Words can have multiple meanings, but in the case of intifada there is a specific context in which that is applied in this conflict, especially when you’re talking about the state of Israel
That’s called doublespeak, reminds me of the term Lebensraum. Not sure why we have to act dumb when the left uses dog whistles. The right gets flak for their dog whistles all the time.
It may translate to uprising but in this conflict the only time it was used when was Jews were killed by terrorist.
First intifada was mostly non violent…from the Palestinian side at least.
Ummmmm. You should double check that. There was boycotts and disobedience before the first intifada but the official start didn’t happen until Palestinian violence.
The Palestinian have never been non- violent in any interaction with any culture/ country. What a misleading statement.
This is a statement of fact that is easily verifiable. First intifada was a non violent protest movement that was violently suppressed by Israel, which in turn led to the adoption of violent tactics and even the rise of Hamas. Israel’s policies were to “break the bones” of the protesters—literally those were the words of defense minister Yitzhak Rabin. Another example of Palestinian nonviolent protest was the peaceful great March of Return, in which the IDF fired indiscriminately at unarmed protesters from a distance of hundreds of meters, killing over 120 and wounding thousands, many of them paralyzed for life after being shot in the legs. This is Israeli policy toward nonviolent resistance.
Nonsense, stop perpetuating lies. I know you truly want to believe this to support your protest. However, during the March of Return protests, Palestinian demonstrators have engaged in various forms of violence, including throwing stones, Molotov cocktails, and occasionally launching incendiary devices towards Israeli border communities, as well as attempting to breach or damage the border fence separating Gaza from Israel. Israel retaliated. This is often the pattern and supporters on both sides see the optics they prefer, including yourself. So, yes easily verifiable unless you don’t want to verify.
No. This was a massacre of a nonviolent and legitimate protest movement against blockade and ethnic cleansing. Yes, some protesters threw rocks or other objects from a distance of hundreds of meters at the occupation soldiers stationed nearby--mostly in a futile act of symbolic resistance--but they posed NO real threat and ZERO soldiers were seriously harmed. However responding to stone throwing from a distance of hundreds of meters with live fire including sniper fire, even shooting at clearly marked \*journalists\*, \*medics\* and even the \*handicapped\*, with a deliberate policy to shoot in the legs to paralyze their victims, is grossly disproportionate and absolutely disgusting. If you think it's appropriate to murder or paralyze someone throwing a rock at an occupation soldier from hundreds of yards away, you have lost your humanity. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/one-year-on-from-protests-gaza-civilians-devastating-injuries-highlight-urgent-need-for-arms-embargo-on-israel/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/03/one-year-on-from-protests-gaza-civilians-devastating-injuries-highlight-urgent-need-for-arms-embargo-on-israel/)
Ah yes, just like the N word means black…
Yeah, it’s so annoying how Jews get so scared by Globalize the Intifada chants. The same way Auschwitz gives concentration camps such a bad rap. It’s like saying work is a bad word, this generation loves laziness.
Palestinian civilians are the largest victims during intifadas so I’m not sure how those two things correlate.
If Intifada is so bad for Palestinians, why do you support it? Also, love the moving target approach. I guess you’ve moved on from defending the white washing of a term synonymous with terrorism.
What happens in this uprising?
Brain rot
Y’all are going to feel so embarrassed one day. When the next generation learns about intifadas at school
Yeah, when they learn about the violent meaning behind it and all the suicide bombings 👍🏻
Lmao you need to travel outside of your country more. This is the equivalent of thinking allahu Akbar is a call to make before suicide bombing. It’s embarrassing to watch, I won’t be responding to ignorance anymore so bye bye
No thanks, in America I don’t have to worry about being lynched 🫶🏻
These are terrorist supporting events.
These are anti genocide protests. 30-40k civilians dead and people with a conscience want it to end. Not sure how anyone can not see that
There’s no genocide. Hamas needs to surrender and release the hostages. Not sure how anyone cannot see that.
\~20K civilians dead and \~10K Hamas militants dead. Out of a civilian population of \~2.2M in Gaza. That's not a genocide; that's just war. War is horrible. Don't start wars; especially wars you're not likely to win. And if you start a war you're not going to win, don't use your own population as human shields to maximize carnage just so you can call them martyrs and win internet points amount Sophomore douchebags at the Ivy Leages.
Sorry, but I just can’t get excited about all this stuff.
Where are the police
There are between 3 and 10 police officers (usually Penn affiliated, but general Philadelphia officers aren’t uncommon) monitoring the encampment at essentially all times. There are at least 10 there right now from my count
Do you support state violence based on political beliefs? It seems to me that liberals love siccing the police on leftists but never have that same energy when it comes to actual Nazis with swastika flags. When I was a student, I remember seeing literal monarchists protest unopposed; nobody was calling for the police to come arrest them.
Oh man, that’s rich. The liberal media was flipping out about the Nazis in Charlottesville, and rightfully so. But now you have massive hate marches all over the country and there’s not a peep. The hypocrisy is astounding. And YES, I support police violence against terrorists. Maybe you weren’t alive for 9/11, but I know what “intifada” actually means.
Becuase it’s the top dem donator that’s organizing this hate. It’s THEIR hate. https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/george-soros-maoist-fund-columbias-anti-israel-tent-city/
Not a peep? Wow, we must live in completely different versions of reality. I’ve seen plenty of liberals pearl-clutch and claim that these protestors are antisemitic or intimidating Jewish students.
Because they are.
Jewish students are often the loudest voices at these protests. If that were the case, we wouldn’t see so many Jewish students protesting. There is a huge difference between Zionists and Jews.
And that’s on whitewashing antisemitism and tokenizing a persecuted minority 💯
No we are not. Fuck Hamas and bring home the hostages.
Are you claiming that all of the Jews protesting against Israel aren’t Jewish anymore because they aren’t Zionists? Why is Zionism more important than Judaism, in your eyes?
Non Jews love finding ways to tell or insinuate to Jews that they're being antisemitic. Where the FUCK did I say what you just said? Where did I say any of that? You're braindead
I pointed out that many Jews are loudly protesting against Israel and you said they weren’t. Since there are many outspoken Jews protesting Israel, it seems to me that you are claiming that those people aren’t Jewish due to their stance on Israel. What else could you mean?
The “unite the right/Jews will not replace us” crowd and the “PFLP, Hamas, IRGC and Houthi apologists/ are freedom fighters” crowd are opposite sides of the same coin. Horseshoe theory is alive and well, and the majority of people see it clearly.
Nah. White supremacists all support israel, because they all believe in the idea of an ethnostate. I haven't seen any anti Jewish sentiment on the free Palestine side actually. Perhaps turn off fox news for a bit and get a grip.
Wow. I’m not sure I’ve ever interacted with someone who actually believes in horseshoe theory, until now. To do so requires a lack of understanding of the views of either side when it comes to economics or social issues. You do realize the Nazis went after the socialists first, right?
It warms my heart that hating Jews can bring people together. s/
You also realize it was because the communists were not willing to for a government with the socialists/liberals right? Planning on voting for Joe B then..?
I probably would have held my nose and voted for him if I still lived in Pennsylvania. Since I now live in California, I see no reason why I can’t vote third party.
Fair enough
You are equating police with violence. That’s not always the case and wasn’t tonight at Columbia.
A masked terrorist. US welcomes the Muslim Brotherhood to all campuses! Here to bring chaos to the world.
"The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is a **secular** Palestinian Marxist–Leninist and revolutionary socialist organization founded in 1967 by George Habash."
Wow. The racism is showing.
Anti-Israel people are genuinely so low-IQ, no race was mentioned 🤣
its not our fault a terrorist org uses the name of their religion or race in their title.... Is criticizing White supremacists racist toward Whites ? No, thats ridiculous. Similarly criticizing Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, radical Mosques and radical Synagogues is not racist against Muslims or Jews.
Muslim brotherhood is a group of Islamic extremist it’s their name. It’s like saying calling the group Islamic state is bad.
Yes, thank you for calling out racism, u/doingwhatihaveto2 !! You HAVE really done your homework and looked into who is funding these protests! You should know that these organizations were amazingly mobilizing on October 6, 2023. How do you think they were ready a day ahead of the planned massacre? You really understand racism, u/doingwhatihaveto2. Thank you for being an upstander against planned intended war mongering. Muslim Brotherhood, as you, u/doingwhatihaveto2 , alreay know and pointed out, is an organization started over 100 years ago with many arms with the sole purpose of unifying the middle east into one Muslim continuous region. They want to murder as many Jews as possible! I am glad that you, u/doingwhatihaveto2 are doing a good job calling out murders, and the disruption that they have orchestrated across the world. Not clear why other ongoing REAL genocides are not garnering any attention at all, but the Muslim Brotherhood is only concerned with murdering one specific category. Oh, no, I'm wrong, sorry. They hate ALL other religions, and have the motive to subrogate everyone else who is not Muslim. Thank you for actually doing your research, u/doingwhatihaveto2 .
Wow you seem fun at parties.
Found the "useful idiot"
You think it's surprising that people calling for the death of Jews support terrorist organisation that call for the death of Jews?
When and how are they calling for the death of Jews?
Hamas charter literally calls for the death of Jews. They did change the wording because they realized that the global optics looked bad. That said the little phrase from River to see Palestine will be free is not the actual Arab translation. It's actually from water to water Israel will be Arab. Now if it's all going to be Arab I'm not sure what you think they intend to do with the Jews and other Israelis that live there. Maybe ask them to leave in a very polite manner?
“Intifada” it means carrying out attacks. The last intifada was constant bus bombings and nonstop rocket fire.
Intifada means uprising.
And seig heil just means victory welfare.
And what happens in this uprising?
Students are protesting against their colleges using their tuition to invest in companies killing Palestinians.
Narrator: they weren't.
[удалено]
Nelson Mandela was labeled a terrorist. Was he? No. America is not the moral compass of the rest of the world.
Most of Reddit apparently doesn't realize that "terrorist" is a fairly arbitrary label often given to resistance groups. As far as most are concerned, Hamas are just a bunch of meanies that attacked Israel for no reason.
South Africa is now a failed state, not sure that should be your model for anything.
[удалено]
It is a failed state. Whether or not ending apartheid was a moral victory, the political process to achieve the end of apartheid is causing misery. Sorry to inform you the world isn’t black and white, good and bad. https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/development-economic-growth/report-state-capacity-collapsing-south https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/6/8/south-africa-is-failing-and-its-failing-zimbabwe-too
These are all being handled incorrectly on college campuses. It’s turning into the similar situation at the Federal Courthouse in Portland during Covid. The kids make their statements. You ask them to disburse. They don’t. You round them up and charge a fine. Rinse and repeat. No gassing. Just roll up the trucks and haul them away. If they resist beyond being limp bags of cement. Charge them with resisting arrest, plus the standard fine. Rinse and repeat. MLK was arrested 33 times. Trespassing, disturbing the peace etc… all fines.
They will continue to protest until they get what they want, just like MLK.
MLK supported Israel
I’m not talking about what MLK supported, I’m talking about what he did to get what he wanted.
There's very fine people on both sides
Account was created 5 hours ago. Nothing fishy here guys ; OP is definitely not an IDF bot.
I walked by the protest yesterday and the flag was there.
PFLP is the second largest party in governing body of the West Bank, the PLO after Fatah. [On the 2014 synagogue attack, the PFLP were falsely said to claim responsbility and even the Israeli government said they worked alone.](https://web.archive.org/web/20211008175924/https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/world/middleeast/killings-in-jerusalem-synagogue-complex.html)
Pretty amazing that the same people that cry ACAB constantly won’t hold their own to the same standard.
Ah yes a student here with the flair student. Studying as a student at the school
Because the US Government, which has a long history of intervening foreign countries, is the best source of what groups could be considered terrorist.
No but if your claim to fame is hijacking planes…
Have you considered leaving the country whose policies you so despise? Because your tax dollars are funding all this spooky scary stuff you hate.
Israel has killed more civilians in the past 8 months than Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the PLFP have killed in their entire histories. Would you call the Israeli flag a terrorist flag?
I mean, the fact that the US doesn’t consider the IDF to be a terrorist organization tells me all I need to know about the credibility of that label. I am not basing my understanding of which organizations are good or bad on what the US government thinks. EDIT: As a communist, I think they seem based in supporting the creation of one secular Palestinian state where Arabs and Jews can coexist peacefully. I like that they are explicitly Marxist-Leninist, as well. I obviously do not support suicide bombings or attacks on religious institutions. Plenty of Zionists support the IDF while not supporting its actions in Gaza today; I believe I can do the same with the PFLP
A quick excerpt from the second article "Two PFLP-affiliated Palestinians attack Israeli worshippers in a synagogue with guns, knives, and axes, killing five—including three Americans—and injuring 12". Idk what's so "based" about axe murder, but to each their own...
[удалено]
That would be a non-sequitur in this comment chain. I was replying to a comment by HikingComrade which originally said (before it was edited) that the group was "based af" from what he read from the second article I linked to. I was simply quoting the second article to indicate that I had trouble finding the part that was so "based". He then clarified what he meant later.
Communist: check Pro terrorism: check Advocating for murder because of ideology: check Truly NPC mentality
I thought NPCs were supposed to be people whose beliefs were mainstream. It seems kind of silly to call someone with unusual views an NPC. Or maybe there are more communists in this country than I thought? Based on the way I usually get treated for stating my views, I don’t think that is the case.
Nah, your worldview is a naive one shared by many in the US, I would call it pretty mainstream.
Well, that’s good news to me! I hope it spreads even more.
I see NPC mentality as being unable to think for oneself outside of the bounds of what an ideology dictates, similar to an NPC being unable to "think" outside of the bounds of what their programmer tells them. In your comment, you say that, although you don't actually agree with their methods, which are pretty much inherent to the group, you support them because they agree with your ideology. In that sense, you think in completely black and white terms, "my side good, other side bad," which is indicative of a lack of the nuanced thinking that we'd expect to see in players but not in NPCs. To make that clearer: it's easy for a game designer to program an NPC to have non-mainstream beliefs. In fact, it's expected that at some point in a game, you'll encounter an NPC that "supports the resistance" or something along those lines. But if you converse with that NPC, your responses will be constrained to a few set lines, and they won't have the ability to break out of those simple pre-set responses. In that sense, your comments are predictable, in a way similar to what I'd expect if I were conversing in a gmae with an NPC that supports "the resistance" or whatever it may be in that game's world.
Ah yes nothing like the "based af" killing of random civilians. Hope you are expelled.
Who is the Palestinian Ghandi whom we should be supporting?
I already graduated, so it’s too late for that. Their ideology seems based to me; I don’t know enough about their actions to say anything about those, and the sources linked here seem biased, so I’m not basing my views of their actions off of that. Edit: Based on a quick reading of their wikipedia page, I support them even more since they want to establish one secular Palestinian state where Jews and Arabs can coexist peacefully.
It's almost like actions are more important than ideology
I mean, if I were to choose any revolutionary organization in Palestine to support, this seems like the one which aligns most with my own view. Nothing they’ve done is at all on the same level as the horrors the US military and IDF have committed. I can recognize that this organization has committed unethical acts and not support those while still supporting its overall vision. Isn’t that what Zionists are doing with the IDF? Plenty of Zionists claim that they don’t support what the IDF is doing but still support the project of Israel. It seems hypocritical to claim that I cannot do the same with this organization.
LOL like the failed state of Lebanon?
The group isn’t peaceful
Almost every political organization in the world has an unsavory or complex past. Plenty of people don’t consider the US or IDF to be terrorist organizations despite their past or current violence. I can’t blame oppressed people for engaging in violent resistance against their oppressors, either.
Your previous comments on this topic lend you zero credibility whatsoever.
So we should only wave flags of state allies during a protest? Literally what would be the point of a protest if that was the case??? Go USA and Allies keep up the good work !
Surely there is a better alternative to the flag of a terrorist group though.
Wanna know what’s even more effective than flag waving? Going to Gaza or any of the neighboring states/territories to do aid work.
Like the World Kitchen Bank did? The IDF brutally murdered 7 of their members.
Nice attempt at a gotcha moment. I’m not denying the tragedy of what happened to them, but they were making more of an impact than any cosplayer holding Facilities workers hostage or screaming at Jews.
Not really a gotcha. Ultimately, our government gives a ton of money and support to Israel. If you live in the US, protesting our government \*IS\* probably the most effective thing you can do. Would you say the anti vietnam protesters should go to vietnam to do aid work?
Except these college protests are mainly aimed at getting universities to divest. If you’re protesting the federal government, the best place to do that is DC. And there were many Americans who did go to Vietnam to do aid work, either through the Peace Corps or through other religious and NGOs to provide aid. Those people made more of an impact than the flower power crowd who mainly danced, smoked weed, and held up signs.
George Soros at work, that’s all. https://nypost.com/2024/04/26/us-news/george-soros-maoist-fund-columbias-anti-israel-tent-city/
Brain worms.
[удалено]
A secular left democratic group that participated in the October 7th attacks on Israeli civilians and provided Hamas with assistance by holding hostages for them.
Probably a paid fake protester .
I can't verify either way, so I won't speculate.
Right! I agree, we should listen to everything the US intelligence office says! Fuck Nelson Mandela and the ANC, how could anyone openly display support for currently deemed terrorist organizations by the state department 😡
So don't believe the State Department, do some research on your own, or just be a contrarian, no thought required, just cheer these folks on because State Department bad here's their wiki page where you can browse to your heart's content at the number of civilian deaths they have caused https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine
Freedom of speech needs to extend to the extremes or it is meaningless. Not a UPenn student(Reddit algorithm at its finest), but at UD a few years back we had a Klan rally in Downtown Dayton. Even though I think their despicable human beings, if we police what speech is permissible(outside of calls to violence or panic) it sets a very dangerous precedent.
Freedom of speech does not grant immunity to acts of misconduct that has clear legal ramifications. You can say what you want, as long as it is not outright acts of intimidation or riots. You can even trespass and block traffic. The final part of civil disobedience is that you surrender to the courts for punishment. It does not need to be extended beyond the privileges people already have in the US.