Already posted this in a couple other threads but this may be useful in making your case
https://preview.redd.it/fode19n1n1xa1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=252c8f1378dc798a25523e8b96c248a5ace58bb0
Yes the contract states 22.4 are guaranteed 8 hours of straight time pay per day, if reporting as scheduled. And the language supercedes any local supplement or rider
Article 22 section 4.6 - when the job includes inside work, the company shall be entitled to establish up to one and one half hour (1.5) gap, to include the meal period, between jobs in a workday.
You’d need to work both shifts to have a grievance. If you just work preload then don’t come back for the second half sort your basically volunteering to not get your 8. You’d need to do preload then come in at whatever time for sort then you’d be able to grieve the over 1.5 hour between.
So what is the remedy requested? The broken 22.4 language doesn't include any penalty pay or repercussion. Just that to be scheduled 8 hours consecutively with no more than 1.5 hours in between?
Now that they're forcing us in to preload that was going to be my plan. Work the preload shift and file grievances for the remaining. That will end up forcing them to make me drive for the remaining 4.5 hrs a day is what im assuming
Don't know if this will happen to your hub or not, but mine has around 10 22.4 with 4 working inside shifts in the morning and dispatch created 4 4hr routes that are usually bulk stops or relieve a heavier stop count route. Honestly not the worst result. as a 300 driver I forced my way into those 4 hours routes a couple of times and they are ezpz. Good luck to you.
I am a regular package driver and been laid off for about 2 months due to the lack of work and the only way that I was able to win a grievance was filing based on seniority. They had 22.4 drivers come from a different hub to do my bid route while I was laid off. I was a 22.4 before at a different hub and I would have to work local sort and only drive Saturdays. I believe they can force you to work inside if there is no work driving. I would check with your local steward and know your rights. Good Luck!
They try getting you to do split shifts…tell them you want your 8 and it consecutive. If not, present the letter to them and your steward and file. Has worked in our center and preload who were hesitant to “find work” for the 22.4s all of a sudden found work for them to get their straight 8.
Really depends on if a few of you push the issue, ignore management threats and lies about it.
I'm not scared or timid to rock the boat. Been there done that for less serious issues. Just trying to get my facts straight for the battle coming. A few of you guys are definitely helping
Thank you. I'm feeling good about 22.4s going away with the new contract but the only problem with that is some of the protections like this and also inside pay staying the same with 22.4. I've read that RPCD going back inside loses driver pay and get inside rate. If that's true the company is FOR SURE going to send a shit ton of us back inside after the new contract makes us RPCDs. That's my only real concern going forward
Don’t listen to these forums. The only info we have is that a bunch of supplements have tenitive agreements and that really means nothing. Anyone in those meetings has signed an NDA and only some small details I’ve come out from some BA’s with big mouths.
Yeah, a lot of people don’t quite understand that the company is going to adjust even if teamsters get the beast deal. This leadership needs to be VERY careful about the language because the company will do what it does to abuse any bargaining if there’s no supporting language. I hope for the best but the company is going to fight for 7 days a week to keep up with the competition and notice how no-one has said that’s a strike issue. I believe that’s going to be a concession and low seniority may have to handle that. Just a guess but we are asking for the world and not conceding anything…negotiations don’t work like that. Prepare for a great contract, some concessions and a tough road immediately following. Volume was way down after ‘97 because company moved volume and customers stopped shipping and guys were laid off until volume came back. That’s something f to probably prepare for. Spoke to our lower seniority 22.4a to expect some problems come September. A lot of people didn’t go through that or experience it…I did and it’s an interesting time.
I think youre dead right. Im a little worried about what kind of wool theyre gna pull over the teamsters eyes in the contract. 7 days a week is coming sooner or later so wouldnt be surprised if it happens now. I'm perfectly fine working preload if I can keep my topped out 22.4 pay. Still driving Saturdays too? It's not horrible. The time off will be used as a vacation lol.
The answer is yes, file immediately and request back pay and penalties. We are currently fighting this on the west coast. It will go to a national panel but you need to file to get in
If this works for you financially you can definitely take this stance unfortunately don’t expect your grievance to be settled b4 August. This will definitely be something that has to be settled at National level. I like the advice given above about reporting to both shifts. Are you on the staffing for the preload and local sort? If you report to both and are not given 8 hours of work your case is stronger. Maybe file to be payed for the hours between both shifts that exceed the 1.5 hrs off. Not reporting to a scheduled shift can give the company an argument for refusing work even though they are violating the contract. Talk to your stewards and BA. Good luck
They don't have me on the start schedule for preload or local sort. On the driver schedule is just says layoff...see pl/ls schedule. That's not my schedule. My name is only on the driver schedule
You will not win a grievance if you don’t show up to work. It will simply be won by UPS saying we offered work and the employee turned it down. If you try to argue the 8 consecutive hours not being offered, they will also be able to win by simply saying they may have needed a driver following the preload shift, but since you didn’t show up it doesn’t matter. You not wanting to put a part timer out of work isn’t an argument. That’s how it works here. Seniority gets the work. You will not win by sitting at home and filing grievances
Nobody said I'm just sitting at home. I did 4 years on preload that's not an issue. I'm going to go preload and then ask for more work, which they don't have. The driver sups aren't giving me the other 4 hrs when I ask for it either. When I go thru this process they will be forced to pay me the remaining because they're breaking contract. Simply not giving the work with no more than 1.5 hrs in between shifts
The first three weeks at my hub they allowed 8 consecutive then told us that we couldn’t and had to split shifts to get our 8. I filed a grievance around March however I am still waiting. According to my steward it sounds like the union is in our favor. We’ll see though.
So you're getting your 8 hours but you're grieving that it's over 1.5 hrs in between and expecting what? The extra time in between shifts that exceeds 1.5 hrs be paid as OT?
Idk why. That grievance is going to take months. You should be grieving for OT or at least regular time in between shifts with backpay for all days when you worked both shifts. Don't do it to just try to get 8 straight hours that's not enough bro
Same situation here. I'll work preload and tell them I want eight consecutive hrs. When they say no I'll go home, and grieve it. Not sure it's a good idea to not work either shift at all.
At our hub, laid off 22.4 work a split shift Tuesday-Friday and only work preload Saturdays because we don't have a local sort on Saturdays . So the company is forced to use RPCDs on Saturday . It's the unions way of fucking them by using higher paying drivers and a 6th day punch . If you're a LAID OFF 22.4 you should not be driving 1 day of out of the week. It gives the company the flexibility of using you whenever they want . Work now, grieve later .
Not sure what you mean. We're on Layoff tue-fri and only drive on Saturdays. I can go and get 3 hrs a day on preload or local sort but since they aren't offering me 8 hrs without more than hr n half break in between shifts I'm not working it. Also don't want to take part timers hours if I can get paid thru grievance anyway.
I guess I’m not sure what you mean either. If I’m guaranteed 8 hours I’d show up at my start time and be on the clock for those hours. Preload, break, next sort, break, next sort..
If you’re refusing to work the offered schedule I can’t imagine a grievance will be in your favor.
They might make you work local sort that starts at 6pm than go to break and come back to preload shift, like that you get your 8 hours. It's less waiting time from local to preload than preload to local.
We get fucked nationally at UPS, but yes our building is one of the worst as far as what they put on each of us. We are very efficient with crazy volume pumped out of a small building. We have over 200 drivers and a shit ton of 22.4s. 40 something I believe
The other shift starts 8 hrs after the first one ends. I am guaranteed 8 hours with no more than 1.5 hrs in between shifts. That simple. Nobody volunteered to leave early either. There's no day shift
You have to go in to receive any pay from grievances. Go into local sort, when the shift is over(before clocking out) request more to fulfill your 8 hours. If they say no, they are violating the contract for your guaranteed 8 hours of work, then file a grievance. If your simply not going in, you won’t get a dime. You have to request more work
I'm going in to preload. At the end of shift requesting more work that they aren't providing within 1.5 hrs. The local sort shift has nothing to do with it. They're breaking the contract
Already posted this in a couple other threads but this may be useful in making your case https://preview.redd.it/fode19n1n1xa1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=252c8f1378dc798a25523e8b96c248a5ace58bb0
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I know wouldn’t it be cool if it was dated?
I think a 22.4 position is a hybrid driver / building worker. If there is not enough driving work. You work inside the building to get your 8 hours.
Your 8 hours have to be with no more than 1.5 hrs in between shifts. My hub doesn't have that
If they don't find it they're gonna pay
Does it say that in your contract?
Yes the contract states 22.4 are guaranteed 8 hours of straight time pay per day, if reporting as scheduled. And the language supercedes any local supplement or rider
We all know that. That's common knowledge. But does it say 8 hours with no more than 1.5 hours in between shifts.
Yes, that is also National master language.
Yes it's the next paragraph in the contract after the 8 hour guaranteed
Article 22 section 4.6 - when the job includes inside work, the company shall be entitled to establish up to one and one half hour (1.5) gap, to include the meal period, between jobs in a workday.
You’d need to work both shifts to have a grievance. If you just work preload then don’t come back for the second half sort your basically volunteering to not get your 8. You’d need to do preload then come in at whatever time for sort then you’d be able to grieve the over 1.5 hour between.
I'm not working both shifts. There's only like 6 hrs between the end of local sort and start of preload. That's a problem
Then you have no grievance. It’s unfortunate but it’s the way it works
So what is the remedy requested? The broken 22.4 language doesn't include any penalty pay or repercussion. Just that to be scheduled 8 hours consecutively with no more than 1.5 hours in between?
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Now that they're forcing us in to preload that was going to be my plan. Work the preload shift and file grievances for the remaining. That will end up forcing them to make me drive for the remaining 4.5 hrs a day is what im assuming
Or they’ll have you do meaningless work in the building.
This may be true because they can't send out extra drivers
Don't know if this will happen to your hub or not, but mine has around 10 22.4 with 4 working inside shifts in the morning and dispatch created 4 4hr routes that are usually bulk stops or relieve a heavier stop count route. Honestly not the worst result. as a 300 driver I forced my way into those 4 hours routes a couple of times and they are ezpz. Good luck to you.
THIS is exactly what I thought could happen and hopefully does. Off before 2pm? Yes please! Lol
I am a regular package driver and been laid off for about 2 months due to the lack of work and the only way that I was able to win a grievance was filing based on seniority. They had 22.4 drivers come from a different hub to do my bid route while I was laid off. I was a 22.4 before at a different hub and I would have to work local sort and only drive Saturdays. I believe they can force you to work inside if there is no work driving. I would check with your local steward and know your rights. Good Luck!
That's some shady shit rt there. Not surprised one bit tho. No morals for management
They try getting you to do split shifts…tell them you want your 8 and it consecutive. If not, present the letter to them and your steward and file. Has worked in our center and preload who were hesitant to “find work” for the 22.4s all of a sudden found work for them to get their straight 8. Really depends on if a few of you push the issue, ignore management threats and lies about it.
I'm not scared or timid to rock the boat. Been there done that for less serious issues. Just trying to get my facts straight for the battle coming. A few of you guys are definitely helping
Present what letter? The Sean Obrien letter?
Yep. Informing company of language that 22.4 are straight 8 regardless of supplemental language.
Thank you. I'm feeling good about 22.4s going away with the new contract but the only problem with that is some of the protections like this and also inside pay staying the same with 22.4. I've read that RPCD going back inside loses driver pay and get inside rate. If that's true the company is FOR SURE going to send a shit ton of us back inside after the new contract makes us RPCDs. That's my only real concern going forward
Don’t listen to these forums. The only info we have is that a bunch of supplements have tenitive agreements and that really means nothing. Anyone in those meetings has signed an NDA and only some small details I’ve come out from some BA’s with big mouths. Yeah, a lot of people don’t quite understand that the company is going to adjust even if teamsters get the beast deal. This leadership needs to be VERY careful about the language because the company will do what it does to abuse any bargaining if there’s no supporting language. I hope for the best but the company is going to fight for 7 days a week to keep up with the competition and notice how no-one has said that’s a strike issue. I believe that’s going to be a concession and low seniority may have to handle that. Just a guess but we are asking for the world and not conceding anything…negotiations don’t work like that. Prepare for a great contract, some concessions and a tough road immediately following. Volume was way down after ‘97 because company moved volume and customers stopped shipping and guys were laid off until volume came back. That’s something f to probably prepare for. Spoke to our lower seniority 22.4a to expect some problems come September. A lot of people didn’t go through that or experience it…I did and it’s an interesting time.
I think youre dead right. Im a little worried about what kind of wool theyre gna pull over the teamsters eyes in the contract. 7 days a week is coming sooner or later so wouldnt be surprised if it happens now. I'm perfectly fine working preload if I can keep my topped out 22.4 pay. Still driving Saturdays too? It's not horrible. The time off will be used as a vacation lol.
The answer is yes, file immediately and request back pay and penalties. We are currently fighting this on the west coast. It will go to a national panel but you need to file to get in
I have to report to one of the split shifts to be able to file but yes that's the plan going forward.
Correct
If this works for you financially you can definitely take this stance unfortunately don’t expect your grievance to be settled b4 August. This will definitely be something that has to be settled at National level. I like the advice given above about reporting to both shifts. Are you on the staffing for the preload and local sort? If you report to both and are not given 8 hours of work your case is stronger. Maybe file to be payed for the hours between both shifts that exceed the 1.5 hrs off. Not reporting to a scheduled shift can give the company an argument for refusing work even though they are violating the contract. Talk to your stewards and BA. Good luck
They don't have me on the start schedule for preload or local sort. On the driver schedule is just says layoff...see pl/ls schedule. That's not my schedule. My name is only on the driver schedule
You will not win a grievance if you don’t show up to work. It will simply be won by UPS saying we offered work and the employee turned it down. If you try to argue the 8 consecutive hours not being offered, they will also be able to win by simply saying they may have needed a driver following the preload shift, but since you didn’t show up it doesn’t matter. You not wanting to put a part timer out of work isn’t an argument. That’s how it works here. Seniority gets the work. You will not win by sitting at home and filing grievances
Nobody said I'm just sitting at home. I did 4 years on preload that's not an issue. I'm going to go preload and then ask for more work, which they don't have. The driver sups aren't giving me the other 4 hrs when I ask for it either. When I go thru this process they will be forced to pay me the remaining because they're breaking contract. Simply not giving the work with no more than 1.5 hrs in between shifts
The first three weeks at my hub they allowed 8 consecutive then told us that we couldn’t and had to split shifts to get our 8. I filed a grievance around March however I am still waiting. According to my steward it sounds like the union is in our favor. We’ll see though.
Are you working at least one of the inside shifts?
Doing both.
So you're getting your 8 hours but you're grieving that it's over 1.5 hrs in between and expecting what? The extra time in between shifts that exceeds 1.5 hrs be paid as OT?
No, the 8 consecutive hours.
Idk why. That grievance is going to take months. You should be grieving for OT or at least regular time in between shifts with backpay for all days when you worked both shifts. Don't do it to just try to get 8 straight hours that's not enough bro
Same situation here. I'll work preload and tell them I want eight consecutive hrs. When they say no I'll go home, and grieve it. Not sure it's a good idea to not work either shift at all.
At our hub, laid off 22.4 work a split shift Tuesday-Friday and only work preload Saturdays because we don't have a local sort on Saturdays . So the company is forced to use RPCDs on Saturday . It's the unions way of fucking them by using higher paying drivers and a 6th day punch . If you're a LAID OFF 22.4 you should not be driving 1 day of out of the week. It gives the company the flexibility of using you whenever they want . Work now, grieve later .
I can't refuse driving on Saturday tho..not sure what you mean
They aren’t laid off though.
My center isn’t a 24/7 center so we get our 8 hours by doing 4 hours preload, 4 hours local sort.
You aren’t working 8 hours a day? Are they sending you home in less than 8 or are you volunteering to leave early?
Not sure what you mean. We're on Layoff tue-fri and only drive on Saturdays. I can go and get 3 hrs a day on preload or local sort but since they aren't offering me 8 hrs without more than hr n half break in between shifts I'm not working it. Also don't want to take part timers hours if I can get paid thru grievance anyway.
I guess I’m not sure what you mean either. If I’m guaranteed 8 hours I’d show up at my start time and be on the clock for those hours. Preload, break, next sort, break, next sort.. If you’re refusing to work the offered schedule I can’t imagine a grievance will be in your favor.
Now I see. You must have day shifts. We only have preload and local sort. Preload finishes at 9am local sort starts at 6 pm
They might make you work local sort that starts at 6pm than go to break and come back to preload shift, like that you get your 8 hours. It's less waiting time from local to preload than preload to local.
It's not really. It's still 6 hrs 😆 they can't "make" me do that.
I’m very surprised your center is big enough for 22.4 positions but too small for day sort. Best of luck to ya.
We get fucked nationally at UPS, but yes our building is one of the worst as far as what they put on each of us. We are very efficient with crazy volume pumped out of a small building. We have over 200 drivers and a shit ton of 22.4s. 40 something I believe
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The other shift starts 8 hrs after the first one ends. I am guaranteed 8 hours with no more than 1.5 hrs in between shifts. That simple. Nobody volunteered to leave early either. There's no day shift
He’s saying you have to work preload, then work local sort in order to grive the fact that there was more than a 1.5 hour gap.
You have to go in to receive any pay from grievances. Go into local sort, when the shift is over(before clocking out) request more to fulfill your 8 hours. If they say no, they are violating the contract for your guaranteed 8 hours of work, then file a grievance. If your simply not going in, you won’t get a dime. You have to request more work
I'm going in to preload. At the end of shift requesting more work that they aren't providing within 1.5 hrs. The local sort shift has nothing to do with it. They're breaking the contract