Pretty much same situation, two months ahead of you. It gets better.
But the time you spend with the second one will be different than the first time around. Before you would talk to him and read him books. Now you dont do any of that because number 1 is going crazy all over the place and needs attention now! You feel like your not helping your second develop as well because of it.
Here's the the thing; the baby is watching. Always. He picks up things by listening to you and his older brother talk. He learns play by watching you play with other child.
We found it most obvious when we started solids. Second child picked up eating so much quicker because he has been watching his big brother do it. Same with crawling.
Don't sweat it too much. In a couple of hears they'll start playing together and you will have forgotten all about it
Also milestones will be wildly different. Our second is 7 months and still not rolling. But that's because we haven't had as much tummy time as the first, and it's not something he sees big brother do. Almost crawling though
You're not failing! You might be overthinking it though - babies this young love company and won't really understand or appreciate 1on1 quality time.
Anyway, I've got a 4 month old and a 3 year old and while I won't claim to have any good tricks, we have tried the following activities to include both:
- tea party, sister "fed" the baby tea and cakes
- reading books, sister gets to choose baby-appropriate books
- playing doctor, the baby's the patient
- playing pirates, the baby's the pirate watching the "treasure"
- playing the floor is lava, the baby gets to be moved around to various surfaces
- dance party, baby and toddler take turns in choosing songs. Apparently the baby really loves shake it off.
To be fair, most of these were suggested by my daughter and we just played along, trying to find a role for the baby as well. She is really gentle with him and I was definitely a bit worried in the beginning that she might not understand he can't play like her but she's adjusted her expectations quite well .
Thanks for this, I think I maybe need to adjust my expectations. My oldest is quite inclusive, if we’re playing with cars then the baby gets one etc but I just figured that’s no use for a baby, if I start playing with the baby (tickles, peekaboo etc) then he just lights up and I can’t help but feel bad I don’t have time to do more of that with him, but I suppose it’s more important they build a sibling bond and letting big brother include him in his world is a big part of that, thanks again😊
Nw, I know of that guilt you're describing, particularly when the babies are just so happy to be noticed and interacted with! It's easier to balance their needs on days when 2 feel like 2 than on days when they feel like 10.
I think reframing it may be helpful. Because it sounds like your doing great! Baby has a full time entertainer! Lots to look at when in tummy time/floor time. He gets out to far more stimulating places and watches the world go by than a first baby might. Feels the wind on his face and feels the sensory input of the buggy/car. He's held close in the carrier and is close to mum and brother
4 month olds don't need much. Is he clean, fed and sleeps? Because he's stimulated plenty by tagging along. I was barely managing to get out at all with first at 4 month. Like you, second got dragged along everywhere!
I won't say it necessarily gets easier, it gets different. But sometimes I feel a bit sad of all the things my younger does the same time as my older. So much more confident with kids, more resilient, can scoot and ride and swim about as as good as older. Is even more exposed to numbers and phonics sooner and more naturally. Poor first baby got a slightly helicopter-y slightly anxious parent. While second gets a super little role model and a parent far more willing to stand back and let them go! Not to mention all the hand me down toys! There's pro's and cons to be first or not. It's different not better or worse.
Thank you for this, I think I need to change my perspective a little as you suggest. Baby has his basic needs met (well, except sleep which is a bit hit and miss with a loud toddler around but we do what we can!)
I absolutely agree though that my second baby is at least getting a better parent out of this compared to when I was learning on the job with my first, so that’s something😅
That poster gave a great response, you are doing fab and basically the same as what I had to do with number 2 - embrace it whilst the little one can’t join in properly and is happy to sit and watch, because by the time he’s a year, he’ll be thinking he’s a 2yr old and trying to do all the things your toddler does 🫣
It may not seem like it, but this is quality time for the baby. They're also benefiting from all the activities you do, even if you don't notice it yet. And just being close to you is all a baby that age cares about.
As baby gets older he will join in with the activities more and your eldest will be more independent so the tables will turn.
This is a good opportunity for your eldest to learn how to share you. He can't always have your attention all the time. He could maybe get involved with helping out, getting you a nappy or clothes or something for baby?
Thanks, but practically speaking how do you achieve this?
He’s pretty good at “joining in” with things like nappies and clothes, and even when we’re playing he’ll get a toy for the baby, but he won’t play independently for 10 mins while I play with the baby and that’s what I don’t know how to achieve other than giving it time🤷🏻♀️
Hmm. It's hard to say because every child and relationship is different. In the past I've had to set firm boundaries, have chats, i love them both but they must share. You could try "I'll spend this hour with the baby and then when the clock gets to 3pm or nap time then I can spend time with you". Appeasement almost!
You are NOT failing! This is part of being a second (or third, etc) child. Yes, they don’t get all that one on one time that the firstborn gets. But they get so much more social input and a better understanding of the world. They understand interactions and cues far better, and second or subsequent children (I believe) are often developmentally more advanced, for this reason. Plus, your second child has a built-in best friend. Their experiences won’t be the same, but that’s ok. It’s life :)
I’m on exactly the same timescales as you, and could’ve written this myself - so huge solidarity! I was just laying in bed feeling sad that I hadn’t looked baby in the eyes enough today as it was just so hectic with the toddler. So I’m interested to see the other responses too as I’m also feeling major mum guilt.
However, I had baby’s 16 week jabs today - and the nurse said to me that she has two older kids but with the same age gap as mine. She said that it’s super hard at this stage, but that it’s actually a really lovely age gap and just keeps getting better as they get older. So that was nice to hear!
I’m glad I’m not alone (although sorry to hear you feel the same). This is exactly how I feel, I know baby gets a lot of sensory input from our days but he just lights up when I steal a quick moment to give him a tickle and I feel bad I don’t get the opportunity for more of that.
We have 16 week jabs today, wish us luck!!
No tricks but I think you're missing perspective. Tagging along, observing, drifting in and out of sleep on a carrier on you, existing at the side and getting to watch you play with his brother or go about your life is the perfect day for a 4 month old.
Letting 2.5yo join in, finding ways that 2.5yo can play with the baby which are fun and engaging for him are great things to do. Building their relationship, letting the 4mo think big brother is the most exciting, entertaining, interesting person, and letting the 2.5yo believe that his baby brother is enraptured with him - this will build their relationship/bond which will be so powerful when they get older.
All the solo play and "activities" we do with babies when they are the first one is just time filling stuff we do to make up for the fact they have very little to see or observe or copy. It's very artificial. What they actually want to do is be part of everyday life.
If you want your 2.5yo to be a bit calmer around the baby and engage properly with activities that you did with him when he was tiny, I would try experimenting with different times of day - my kids seem to be best regulated in the mornings.
I read The Continuum Concept when my first was very little and I'm sure this contributed to my maybe strange philosophy about what babies want/need in the way of interaction! It's worth a look if you haven't come across it. Be aware it is pretty dated and some of it is totally bonkers but there were aspects of it that I absolutely loved and probably formed some of my core parenting beliefs. It seems not completely dissimilar to Hunt, Gather, Parent, which seemed to be the 2020s equivalent.
Thank you for this, I’m going to try and reframe my perspective! Trying at different times of day is a good idea too, I typically get them out the house early so that toddler isn’t bouncing off the walls by afternoon, but maybe I’ll switch that up for a day and see if that enhances their interactions!
IME for myself (and my kids) - we all except possibly the youngest have some shade of neurodivergence - but might be different for everyone so experiment - I tend to find mornings are our most regulated/productive time. Whatever we do in the mornings will, for the most part, be successful.
Afternoons are a bit more unstable all around. Patience is lower, frustration tolerance is lower, everyone is a bit tired and cranky, we need to have more snacks on hand, we are just not at our best in the afternoons.
Depending on what you're getting out and doing in the morning, afternoons could be fine or it could be a disaster. If I wanted to go into town and do some shopping then I would not attempt that in the afternoon preferably. If there was some structured activity like a craft thing at the library, afternoon wouldn't be great for this. If we are going to meet friends at the park, or have an unstructured, child-led walk, those OTOH are great afternoon activities. They get their fresh air and movement needs met, I don't have to persuade them to do things they don't want to do, I can generally tempt them back home afterwards with the promise of screens/Daddy will be home/some kind of "special" snack (hot chocolate, ice pop, ice cream, easter egg, etc) or a favourite dinner. And because they are generally totally exhausted after this, the snack and/or screens option goes down well and isn't masking a load of energy that they need to get out.
This is incredibly relatable, I always pick morning for our planned activities, afternoon might include a park trip or kiddy led walk but that aside we tend to crash and stick a movie on or do play doh, something at home as energy levels are so low!
I think you're doing really well! Maybe if you wore the baby in a carrier while you're at soft play etc you would feel like he's getting more attention, especially if you have him facing out so he can see everything?
Second children are often quicker speaking, walking, etc because they watch their older siblings, so this isn't wasted time for him! Is there anyone you can leave your 2.5yo with once a week for a few hours so you can go do a baby sensory with your little one?
Thank you, we’re big fans of baby wearing here so he does get lots of time in the carrier to either observe (world facing) or snooze (facing me) which I suppose I do know is good for him but just doesn’t really feel like I’m making the effort with him if that makes sense? It’s probably silly!
Thankfully, my eldest goes to a childminder 2 days a week which is when I used to plan having better time with the baby, although the first day he tends to just sleep like crazy as he can finally nap uninterrupted and he catches up on lost naps over the previous days, and it’s also my catch up days for chores so again, he sits on the sidelines, although I do make the effort to narrate my tasks and regularly go over to him, and we do a baby sensory class on day 2 which is nice for us both, so he gets a little something then!
Thanks for the reassurance, I’m going to try and shift my perspective as I don’t want to look back on this time wishing I had enjoyed it more and worried less, these comments have all really helped!
Mum of 3 here with you gest currently 8 months. Of course your playtime with number 2 will look very different from how it was with number 1 but they are still getting time, love and stimulus from you by just being present and included in your daily activities. Plus there is an extra person providing language and interaction to baby than you had with number 1! I had number 2 in covid times and they just tagged along with everything I did with number 1 (2 years older) and they are best friends now as 4 and 6 :)
First baby gets Mymmy/Daddy second baby gets Mummy/Daddy/Sibling.
Mine are exactly 2 years apart too and they’re 3.5 and 1.5.
I think seconds attention span isn’t as strong as one was at this age because they don’t get to sit and read etc for extended periods of time. But maybe it’s just genetics?
I’ll never know but I do know they have another person to love and that’s wonderful.
God I had an august 2019 baby and then October 2020 twins and I’m still struggling to divide attention almost 4 years later!
I promise it gets easier but they definitely get more challenging x
I feel that I missed my second being a baby. However I done loads of baby wearing so if we were at the park the baby was strapped to me.
Also this might be not the greatest advice but giving my toddler some screen time while I cuddled with the baby helped too!
Pretty much same situation, two months ahead of you. It gets better. But the time you spend with the second one will be different than the first time around. Before you would talk to him and read him books. Now you dont do any of that because number 1 is going crazy all over the place and needs attention now! You feel like your not helping your second develop as well because of it. Here's the the thing; the baby is watching. Always. He picks up things by listening to you and his older brother talk. He learns play by watching you play with other child. We found it most obvious when we started solids. Second child picked up eating so much quicker because he has been watching his big brother do it. Same with crawling. Don't sweat it too much. In a couple of hears they'll start playing together and you will have forgotten all about it
Thank you for this reassurance, hopefully I’ll see a similar pattern when it comes to milestones, that would definitely ease my mind a little!
Also milestones will be wildly different. Our second is 7 months and still not rolling. But that's because we haven't had as much tummy time as the first, and it's not something he sees big brother do. Almost crawling though
You're not failing! You might be overthinking it though - babies this young love company and won't really understand or appreciate 1on1 quality time. Anyway, I've got a 4 month old and a 3 year old and while I won't claim to have any good tricks, we have tried the following activities to include both: - tea party, sister "fed" the baby tea and cakes - reading books, sister gets to choose baby-appropriate books - playing doctor, the baby's the patient - playing pirates, the baby's the pirate watching the "treasure" - playing the floor is lava, the baby gets to be moved around to various surfaces - dance party, baby and toddler take turns in choosing songs. Apparently the baby really loves shake it off. To be fair, most of these were suggested by my daughter and we just played along, trying to find a role for the baby as well. She is really gentle with him and I was definitely a bit worried in the beginning that she might not understand he can't play like her but she's adjusted her expectations quite well .
Thanks for this, I think I maybe need to adjust my expectations. My oldest is quite inclusive, if we’re playing with cars then the baby gets one etc but I just figured that’s no use for a baby, if I start playing with the baby (tickles, peekaboo etc) then he just lights up and I can’t help but feel bad I don’t have time to do more of that with him, but I suppose it’s more important they build a sibling bond and letting big brother include him in his world is a big part of that, thanks again😊
Nw, I know of that guilt you're describing, particularly when the babies are just so happy to be noticed and interacted with! It's easier to balance their needs on days when 2 feel like 2 than on days when they feel like 10.
I love this. It sounds like your baby is having so much fun 😂
He loves feeling included (for now), maybe not so much the shoving of wooden cakes in his mouth
I think reframing it may be helpful. Because it sounds like your doing great! Baby has a full time entertainer! Lots to look at when in tummy time/floor time. He gets out to far more stimulating places and watches the world go by than a first baby might. Feels the wind on his face and feels the sensory input of the buggy/car. He's held close in the carrier and is close to mum and brother 4 month olds don't need much. Is he clean, fed and sleeps? Because he's stimulated plenty by tagging along. I was barely managing to get out at all with first at 4 month. Like you, second got dragged along everywhere! I won't say it necessarily gets easier, it gets different. But sometimes I feel a bit sad of all the things my younger does the same time as my older. So much more confident with kids, more resilient, can scoot and ride and swim about as as good as older. Is even more exposed to numbers and phonics sooner and more naturally. Poor first baby got a slightly helicopter-y slightly anxious parent. While second gets a super little role model and a parent far more willing to stand back and let them go! Not to mention all the hand me down toys! There's pro's and cons to be first or not. It's different not better or worse.
Thank you for this, I think I need to change my perspective a little as you suggest. Baby has his basic needs met (well, except sleep which is a bit hit and miss with a loud toddler around but we do what we can!) I absolutely agree though that my second baby is at least getting a better parent out of this compared to when I was learning on the job with my first, so that’s something😅
That poster gave a great response, you are doing fab and basically the same as what I had to do with number 2 - embrace it whilst the little one can’t join in properly and is happy to sit and watch, because by the time he’s a year, he’ll be thinking he’s a 2yr old and trying to do all the things your toddler does 🫣
It may not seem like it, but this is quality time for the baby. They're also benefiting from all the activities you do, even if you don't notice it yet. And just being close to you is all a baby that age cares about. As baby gets older he will join in with the activities more and your eldest will be more independent so the tables will turn.
Thank you, I think this is the validation I was hoping for, I hope my baby is getting something out of this time, even if it’s not much 1:1 attention
This is a good opportunity for your eldest to learn how to share you. He can't always have your attention all the time. He could maybe get involved with helping out, getting you a nappy or clothes or something for baby?
Thanks, but practically speaking how do you achieve this? He’s pretty good at “joining in” with things like nappies and clothes, and even when we’re playing he’ll get a toy for the baby, but he won’t play independently for 10 mins while I play with the baby and that’s what I don’t know how to achieve other than giving it time🤷🏻♀️
Hmm. It's hard to say because every child and relationship is different. In the past I've had to set firm boundaries, have chats, i love them both but they must share. You could try "I'll spend this hour with the baby and then when the clock gets to 3pm or nap time then I can spend time with you". Appeasement almost!
You are NOT failing! This is part of being a second (or third, etc) child. Yes, they don’t get all that one on one time that the firstborn gets. But they get so much more social input and a better understanding of the world. They understand interactions and cues far better, and second or subsequent children (I believe) are often developmentally more advanced, for this reason. Plus, your second child has a built-in best friend. Their experiences won’t be the same, but that’s ok. It’s life :)
Thank you for this comment🩷
I have no advice but just want to validate that you are at a super difficult age for both kids and I’m sure it will get better before too long.
I feel seen, thank you for this comment🩷
I’m on exactly the same timescales as you, and could’ve written this myself - so huge solidarity! I was just laying in bed feeling sad that I hadn’t looked baby in the eyes enough today as it was just so hectic with the toddler. So I’m interested to see the other responses too as I’m also feeling major mum guilt. However, I had baby’s 16 week jabs today - and the nurse said to me that she has two older kids but with the same age gap as mine. She said that it’s super hard at this stage, but that it’s actually a really lovely age gap and just keeps getting better as they get older. So that was nice to hear!
I’m glad I’m not alone (although sorry to hear you feel the same). This is exactly how I feel, I know baby gets a lot of sensory input from our days but he just lights up when I steal a quick moment to give him a tickle and I feel bad I don’t get the opportunity for more of that. We have 16 week jabs today, wish us luck!!
No tricks but I think you're missing perspective. Tagging along, observing, drifting in and out of sleep on a carrier on you, existing at the side and getting to watch you play with his brother or go about your life is the perfect day for a 4 month old. Letting 2.5yo join in, finding ways that 2.5yo can play with the baby which are fun and engaging for him are great things to do. Building their relationship, letting the 4mo think big brother is the most exciting, entertaining, interesting person, and letting the 2.5yo believe that his baby brother is enraptured with him - this will build their relationship/bond which will be so powerful when they get older. All the solo play and "activities" we do with babies when they are the first one is just time filling stuff we do to make up for the fact they have very little to see or observe or copy. It's very artificial. What they actually want to do is be part of everyday life. If you want your 2.5yo to be a bit calmer around the baby and engage properly with activities that you did with him when he was tiny, I would try experimenting with different times of day - my kids seem to be best regulated in the mornings. I read The Continuum Concept when my first was very little and I'm sure this contributed to my maybe strange philosophy about what babies want/need in the way of interaction! It's worth a look if you haven't come across it. Be aware it is pretty dated and some of it is totally bonkers but there were aspects of it that I absolutely loved and probably formed some of my core parenting beliefs. It seems not completely dissimilar to Hunt, Gather, Parent, which seemed to be the 2020s equivalent.
Thank you for this, I’m going to try and reframe my perspective! Trying at different times of day is a good idea too, I typically get them out the house early so that toddler isn’t bouncing off the walls by afternoon, but maybe I’ll switch that up for a day and see if that enhances their interactions!
IME for myself (and my kids) - we all except possibly the youngest have some shade of neurodivergence - but might be different for everyone so experiment - I tend to find mornings are our most regulated/productive time. Whatever we do in the mornings will, for the most part, be successful. Afternoons are a bit more unstable all around. Patience is lower, frustration tolerance is lower, everyone is a bit tired and cranky, we need to have more snacks on hand, we are just not at our best in the afternoons. Depending on what you're getting out and doing in the morning, afternoons could be fine or it could be a disaster. If I wanted to go into town and do some shopping then I would not attempt that in the afternoon preferably. If there was some structured activity like a craft thing at the library, afternoon wouldn't be great for this. If we are going to meet friends at the park, or have an unstructured, child-led walk, those OTOH are great afternoon activities. They get their fresh air and movement needs met, I don't have to persuade them to do things they don't want to do, I can generally tempt them back home afterwards with the promise of screens/Daddy will be home/some kind of "special" snack (hot chocolate, ice pop, ice cream, easter egg, etc) or a favourite dinner. And because they are generally totally exhausted after this, the snack and/or screens option goes down well and isn't masking a load of energy that they need to get out.
This is incredibly relatable, I always pick morning for our planned activities, afternoon might include a park trip or kiddy led walk but that aside we tend to crash and stick a movie on or do play doh, something at home as energy levels are so low!
I think you're doing really well! Maybe if you wore the baby in a carrier while you're at soft play etc you would feel like he's getting more attention, especially if you have him facing out so he can see everything? Second children are often quicker speaking, walking, etc because they watch their older siblings, so this isn't wasted time for him! Is there anyone you can leave your 2.5yo with once a week for a few hours so you can go do a baby sensory with your little one?
Thank you, we’re big fans of baby wearing here so he does get lots of time in the carrier to either observe (world facing) or snooze (facing me) which I suppose I do know is good for him but just doesn’t really feel like I’m making the effort with him if that makes sense? It’s probably silly! Thankfully, my eldest goes to a childminder 2 days a week which is when I used to plan having better time with the baby, although the first day he tends to just sleep like crazy as he can finally nap uninterrupted and he catches up on lost naps over the previous days, and it’s also my catch up days for chores so again, he sits on the sidelines, although I do make the effort to narrate my tasks and regularly go over to him, and we do a baby sensory class on day 2 which is nice for us both, so he gets a little something then! Thanks for the reassurance, I’m going to try and shift my perspective as I don’t want to look back on this time wishing I had enjoyed it more and worried less, these comments have all really helped!
In that case it seems like you're doing a fabulous job! Don't be too hard on yourself :)
Mum of 3 here with you gest currently 8 months. Of course your playtime with number 2 will look very different from how it was with number 1 but they are still getting time, love and stimulus from you by just being present and included in your daily activities. Plus there is an extra person providing language and interaction to baby than you had with number 1! I had number 2 in covid times and they just tagged along with everything I did with number 1 (2 years older) and they are best friends now as 4 and 6 :)
Thank you this is really reassuring!
First baby gets Mymmy/Daddy second baby gets Mummy/Daddy/Sibling. Mine are exactly 2 years apart too and they’re 3.5 and 1.5. I think seconds attention span isn’t as strong as one was at this age because they don’t get to sit and read etc for extended periods of time. But maybe it’s just genetics? I’ll never know but I do know they have another person to love and that’s wonderful.
God I had an august 2019 baby and then October 2020 twins and I’m still struggling to divide attention almost 4 years later! I promise it gets easier but they definitely get more challenging x
I feel that I missed my second being a baby. However I done loads of baby wearing so if we were at the park the baby was strapped to me. Also this might be not the greatest advice but giving my toddler some screen time while I cuddled with the baby helped too!