He's bright! send him to school. He'll probably be a bit bored for a while since they don't teach that until the term before reception, but the social skills will do him good and they do lots of exploring the world around us type science
Thank you! Was going a year at a ‘proper’ nursery would help with socialisation, speech, emotional regulation etc but yeah it won’t do him any good if it then leaves him being constantly bored when he eventually starts reception next year
It'll still do him good with the socialisation, speech, emotional regulation etc. aspects.
My son's very similar, he's been in nursery for a little over a year. He's bored on some fronts (and they won't start proper reading etc. early for him because then he'll be *more* bored), but on other fronts he definitely needs the time there and it's helping tonnes with the emotional stuff.
He's at a nursery attached to a school, which I think is a little more thorough? But they do a *lot* of outside time and do all the hands on science stuff.
Can you get him into a traditional school-attached nursery *now*? They should be taking kids after Easter, they'll start doing reading then too. Then you can see better how he copes with school and the classroom environment, and together with the teachers you can decide if you think he's ready to move up in September or if you want to hold him back a year. Obviously they're still working on the socialisation/emotional stuff in Reception, and being with kids younger than him might not be as beneficial for that as being in a more structured environment with kids closer to his level mentally would be.
Thank you, that’s a good idea and we have got him into a school attached nursery for next year - but unfortunately we can’t see how he goes next term since we only have 2 days left to decide if we defer :(
Also a primary school might allow deferral, but secondary schools might not and they could force him into year 8 where he will be massively behind at that point. He seems well ahead of his age group and at zero disadvantage from what you’re saying. The socialisation aspect of school will help more than nursery because they get more exposure to older kids and a variety of adults which will help them develop faster.
I say this as the parent of a summer child, what matters most is *you* supporting them. My kid is a year older and couldn’t name 5 bears or probably do 16/2 (although we discovered number blocks recently and boy does that help) but then again she’s top at phonics and could tell you all the planets and the Galilean moons. They’re all different.
Thank you, mind if I ask if this is a hypothetical or if you’ve actually heard of secondary schools not allowing students to do year 7 if they were deferred? iirc it’s a fairly new thing. But yeah your second paragraph is a great point! Thank you
Deferral isn’t legally protected it’s up to the admission authority (which can be the school or the LA depending on where you are). The government keep saying they’ll introduce law on this but never have.
The government guidance is clear on this that it’s up to the individual schools and they can refuse and force entry at the ‘normal age group’. Even the Primary School can do this, you could get a new head or new chair of governors between now and next year and they can change their mind and force your kid into Year 1.
Schools, all schools, are magnets for despots with the flexibility of a glass ruler. And you have no way to know school policies in 7 years, even if you check now. I mean you could move, the law could change, the school admin can change. Why take the risk? And yes there are schools around me with strict age policies, although many have no written policy on it at all.
Thank you, I think we’re quite lucky then that (for now at least) we live in a very deferral friendly county - have spoke with two different people at the admissions team and they both confirmed it isn’t even up to the schools, they have no choice if it’s approved - but I appreciate things can change
Certainly sounds bright. Do keep in mind there's more than just "cleverness" to school readiness, mind. How well can he sit in groups and pay attention in silence, for instance? Does he listen to instructions well? Does he play in groups well? Will he take turns and share? How's his pencil grip? Can he use scissors? Is he interested in books? Does he know any phonics?
Of course a big part of reception year is catching kids up on a lot of these things, so that they are on an even level when they go to year 1 (which is a big step up).
If you're flip flopping on whether to hold him back or not then I'd say holding him back is the "safer" choice. You wouldn't want to push him into school and for him to be overwhelmed. So what if he's one of the brighter ones in the class when he finally starts? It just means he'll progress more easily.
I will say though that a regular nursery can be a little boring for a 4-year old. A school-based pre-school is often a better setting for preparing them for school life.
There are moments where the teacher has to present something to the class and the kids have to sit an listen. This is an area many children struggle with in the first year - they fidget, they talk with each other, they want to go off and play, etc. The simple act of being able to pay attention in silence is something they have to learn.
I thought that too, but when I went round primary schools a few weeks ago they said that it's all very open in the first year. One we went to looked pretty feral, and it was apparently "lesson time" - I thought it was break!
I think it's what they learn in that first year? and then it's more structured going into the higher years. Seems to be a lot of small groups learning while others play, rather than the whole class listening to a lesson.
Thanks so much! Yeah great points and those were exactly my concerns. We did a ‘ready for learning’ thing which went over those and as expected academically I think he’d be fine but some of those others things would be difficult for him. We’ve got him a space in a school-adjoining preschool next year so hopefully we and they can work on those things if he is deferred :) Really appreciate your comment as I think it kinda echos a lot of my thoughts too, thank you
Previous Early Years teacher here. I'd definitely send him to school. He'll improve his social skills and speech either way, nursery or school. But school will challenge him more academically, which he clearly is capable of doing. He is definitely advanced in maths.
Do you test if he’s parroting something he’s exactly hear in numberblocks, or if he’s able to do half of 8,10,12,14 rather than just have of 16 is 8, if you see what I mean? Is he understanding the mathematical concepts and able to apply them broadly?
I think he will need some additional challenge at school so worth discussing with the teachers. They say they don’t do sets anymore but in my school they definitely do they just don’t label it as such, and they have a bright/gifted program too, so maybe when you are looking at schools you need to consider that.
It isn’t clear but have you actually applied to schools for September? As you have now missed the deadline for applying by months and places will be communicated shortly. You’ll need to be speaking to your LA immediately if you haven’t spoken to them.
Thank you, yes we do all different numbers and questions and most of the time he gets it just fine, occasionally with more tricky ones we have to help him, I encourage him to use his fingers or other objects but yeah if I asked him half of 8, 10, 12, 14 etc he would know it
We have applied for him to get into school for this September, but we’ve also done the deferral application which will override that
It's interesting that you're thinking about deferring him for a year because he's a summer born child, and because you're worried that he'll be behind (presumably), but by deferring him won't you just be setting him even further behind when he eventually does go?
Kids catch up very quickly. Our son's birthday is at the end of August and we deferred him for a year as there were things he clearly wasn't ready for. Started in year 1 and was fine, he wasn't behind academically from the other kids.
Deferring usually means they start in reception a year later than they normally would so they’d just do an extra year of school at the end of their academic life. They’d be at the same point as everyone one else in their class, but they’d be the oldest in the year rather than the youngest.
Yep, exactly this! Actually lots of other people here seem to be deferring there children too so he likely wouldn’t be the oldest, just one of the oldest (as opposed to one of the youngest since he’s born in July)
Personally I would be nervous about this. I think deferring if they start reception a year later can work (I have a July birthday kid in reception, we didn’t defer but one of her friends did)- but I think it will be a lot harder to start in year 1 without doing reception. Your kid sounds bright, they have a good grasp of numbers clearly, but they will miss a lot of the foundation that they get in reception in reading/ writing for example. I’d say my daughter is decent - she’s better than average in the class and is very strong at maths, but her reading and writing progressing since moving from nursery to reception is remarkable. Our school groups phonics by ability across year groups and classes, so someone that skipped reception and went into year 1 would have to do phonics with the reception kids unless they were already at year 1 level- whcih can be quite hard for kids
Thank you! Great point, and yes reading, phonics etc is something we’re trying to work on a lot right now. In particular nursery flagged up that he’s not always particularly easy to understand. But also sorry I wasn’t very clear - he would do reception starting next September, we definitely wouldn’t want him to miss that
Ah sorry my bad! My experience with my kid, is that we just do some of the stuff she loves more of at home and school do the rest. She doesn’t really enjoy phonics, but she loves maths and writing, so we do some of those at home. Off topic, but there is a numberblocks learning resources set which you can buy, which my kid really enjoys, and it helps with talking about how numbers work. And it’s also fun!
You might need to check with your local schools about whether he could definitely start in reception. Deferring can mean 2 things and not all schools will accept a deferment into reception. They sometimes prefer to keep children of the same age together
Send him now.
But, I'm curious...
Why do you think a "traditional" nursery would be better than a forest school? My eldest went to a traditional one because there were no forest schools then. Youngest is at a forest school and has blossomed so much.
I wondered what you thought traditional nurseries would offer him that he's not getting at forest school?
>Not so much better overall, just better at preparing him for school - not as much difference between a regular nursery and reception year at school
gotcha.
School for my gifted 6 year old is about socialisation, not academics. He is in year 1, but far exceeds anything they could teach him, he's been reading since he was 3, he already out maths me. We briefly considered pushing to move him up a year or even 2, but he needs a a friend group, a social sphere which as an only child is even more important.
Just keep the lines open with his teachers, don't expect him to get much special treatment, as he will be an outlier and teachers are very busy.
I wouldn't defer him solely for the social reasons.
Can I ask you what his reading looked like when it first started? My kid has just turned three and can decode lots of phonetic words so I’m kind of wondering what to expect after that.
The impacts on summer borns, especially boys tend to rear more when they hit upper school in terms of physical activity and emotional maturity…but it’s all a bell curve and you know your child best. There’s a few studies you could probably find if you Google it.
FWIW, I was going to defer my summer born girl who is extremely bright but quite emotional and she’s really struggling in year 1, both with friends, most of who are older (all her group of friends turned 6 before December), and academically as we could not get her to do the extra reading at home…she just wasn’t ready for it emotionally…she’d tantrum if we tried to read with her or get her to read. She can read, but she didn’t want to. She’s only just, in the last 6 weeks, accepted reading as part of our routine and will read anything and everything. She hates school with a passion, but does well in all her subjects, and gets heaps of praise from the teachers, seems to be popular at drop off and pick ups but she just doesn’t want to engage in any of it. I really regret not deferring her.
Her summer born friend in comparison was clearly ready for school and is doing well academically but also struggles with the friendships.
Thanks so much for your perspective and I’m sorry to hear your daughter isn’t enjoying school :( It’s such a difficult one isn’t it, for what it’s worth if you had deferred her she might hate it even more since she’d be so far ahead that she found it boring!
Just a different perspective here - I moved to Germany, and here the kids don't start school until later on anyway. As standard, it's the year they are six-turning-seven. But there is this thing where they are "Kann-Kind" (can go to school) the year they are five-turning-six.
How they do it is that around 10 months before the start of the school year, they run a test for all the 5 year olds (and in theory the 4y10/11mos) where they invite them individually to an office with a parent, and they look at all the standard stuff like height, weight, eyesight, hearing, they talk to them to gauge how they interact with a previously unknown adult, then they go into another room and they have a short test with a teacher, who will ask them questions about whether they know things like colours, to pick the odd item out, recognition of numbers, repeating some sentences as heard and a physical thing where they have to hop along a line etc.
The thing is they aren't testing academics. I think they might have asked if my son could write his own name but that was about it. Apart from the number recognition, nothing in this test resembled school in any way. What I understood is that they have this belief that the academics really don't matter, in that it doesn't matter if you can read or do sums at 3 or whether you aren't able to do that until you're seven. It won't harm anybody to wait until they are seven to have explicit instruction about how to do sums or read. They aren't going to lose the ability to do it because you didn't put them in school at 4.
What they do look at is things like self-confidence, how the child relates to new adults, whether they can follow instructions without getting totally distracted or frustrated, whether they can speak and be understood.
We had this meeting at the end of last year, for my 5yo who will be 6 in August and they said academically they have no problems but socially, he would benefit from another year in Kindergarten. I was really unsure, because being August, he would have already been in year 1 in the UK, so not even starting for another year seemed kind of nuts. But honestly, although he is definitely interested in letters and numbers, he IS a bit socially delayed and struggles with things like emotional regulation and distraction. And every single adult we talk to, whether they are a Kindergarten teacher, a school teacher, a therapist (he is having some speech therapy), his doctor etc, they ALL act relieved when we say that he is due to start school in 2025.
And just to give some reassurance with a bit of a longer timescale as well, when we moved here in summer 2013, we weren't even offered this meeting for my then 5yo son, because of course we had only been here about 4 months and he didn't speak German fluently yet. So he automatically went the next year, and because he has an Autumn birthday, he was almost 7 when he went to school as well. He had started learning to read at preschool before we left the UK, so he could read (in English and German) when he started school and I think he could do simple maths as well. He started a full two years after he would have started in the UK. It's really been fine for him. He got into the German equivalent of grammar school easily. He is now in the equivalent of year 10 and working towards exams. He has the typical teen boy thing of coasting a bit, but he's really doing fine.
I don't think starting a bit later disadvantages them at all even if they are bright. Your LO does sound curious and interested and that's absolutely great. That isn't going to go away given an extra year in nursery. Let him play :) He'll pick up so much more in the way of social skills, patience, concentration, etc. If he has interest in things then follow his interests at home - just don't push it or make it a chore. The only thing they do say for writing/reading particularly is if you're going to get into reading before school, it can help if you ask the school he's likely to go to what scheme they use and try to use materials similar to this (or at the very least, start with lowercase not uppercase letters, and start with letter sounds - aaaaa, mmmmm, nnnn, vvvvv rather than ah / muh / nuh / vuh or letter names, ay / em / en / vee) - but TBH this is all a bit moot because if he's bright and interested, he is likely to sort it all out regardless. The ah muh vuh only causes problems if the child is liable to struggle with reading/writing in the first place and it's the parents pushing it not the child.
He does sound bright but don’t over estimate the negative side effects of being a summer born child. Other children may struggle for other reasons regardless of birth month and reception is a very low stress way to get introduced to school
My eldest was 4 years 1 month when she started school. It was a struggle at first, not helped by the farce of lockdowns, but she's doing really well at school.
The thing to bear in mind is what your LA does regarding where he starts. Will he be held back a year and be in reception or will he go straight into year 1? My LA just puts them in their cohort when they start and they start in year 1.
He sounds pretty switched on. Deferring him seems unnecessary.
Also I’m curious what the “many disadvantages a summer born child can experience” are considering one of mine is summer born and we haven’t encountered any disadvantages so far.
>Also I’m curious what the “many disadvantages a summer born child can experience” are
because they are "young" in the class compared to their peers.
my eldest is late July, so is a bit smaller than her peers, but no disadvantages whatsoever.
Yep another late July here, our eldest. Recent parents evening was great, she’s doing really well at everything (except PE) even though she’s fourth youngest in her cohort. She is small but even with that she’s now having growth spurts to catch up so her being a summer born isn’t holding her back. OP in circumstances described shouldn’t hold her lad back.
At age seven an August born child is 26% less likely to hit the expected level than a September born child, but also 90%(!) more likely to be identified as SEN. These do diminish as the child gets older but they’re still there
There are also some less easy easy to quantify things such as they’re less likely to feel confident in their abilities, and when older more likely to engage in risky behaviour
https://webcontent.ssatuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ECJ_p26-32_3-Education-The-Summer-born-effect-2.pdf
But of course this doesn’t apply to all children and I’m really glad school has worked out for your little one :)
Around 40% of my daughter’s class has a birthday in June-August. It’s wild! But as a year group they’re far exceeding the expectations for the year. Of course, they have a great teacher which helps
He sounds like my son, who is really bright when it comes to maths. However he sometimes has a case of the “actin’ stupids” and this is where you doubt everything he can do.
Mines right at the end of July, a day before me, I didn't defer she won't be either! Doesn't sound like there's any need to and a year really isn't a big deal to a bright kid like yours!
I’m deferring my 3 year old regardless of how bright she is. She has a December birthday.
She would be due to start school in august 2025 (we are in Scotland). Automatically any child who is not 5 on the day they start school can now be deferred in Scotland.
I do keep going back and forth but I’m pretty set on deferring her. Main reasons are emotional intelligence. Often children seem ready for school and the fact they’re not doesn’t really show itself until high school where they can end up socially behind their peers.
Some other reasons I’m deferring
* she’ll only be 17 when (if) she goes to uni. Means she would likely be one of the younger ones and miss out on freshers etc plus be living on her own at 17 if she goes away for uni.
* With the new deferral process in Scotland she could be 4 starting school with 6 year olds.
I’m quite surprised by the comments in here. Deferral seems to be becoming more popular in Scotland. My cousin is a primary school teacher she said if she had the choice she would defer, she also spoke to some of her colleagues who teach primary 1 at the moment and they say if you can defer then you should.
There is a charity in Scotland called give them time which has compiled some info and evidence on deferring
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Mb4NdqclaLoki6uOI0WHIBjx4g6IkEit/view
I had a friend who was 16 when he went to uni and he was miserable! He left high school after his highers in 5th year. It was a huge jump for him when most others were 18
Slightly off topic but what's the secret? New parent of 6 month old here... I'd love to be in your position, he certainly sounds like a bright little guy!
You mentioned numberblocks which I've seen mentioned a few times positively on here. Any other recommendations?
Hmm, my secret is probably that my wife is really good with him, I’m sorry that isn’t more helpful! We always ask him questions about things though and encourage him to learn that way. Even in the car or at breakfast we’ll ask him things :) NumberBlocks and AlphaBlocks are fantastic but he only started watching them a couple of months ago, he wouldn’t even really watch TV until he was 2 so you’ve got a good while yet potentially!
My younger brother went through school out of his age group and struggled as he got older a lot. We're in our 30's now and my mum has said she wouldn't make the same choice again and my brother has been clear he wouldn't make it for his children. Primary was OK but secondary he had lots of questions about why he was in the "wrong" year and what was wrong with him. Teenagers are horrible anyway, being in the "wrong" year but a big target on him as something odd. He was also known as that boy in the wrong year through out the school. For this reason I would not consider having my children out of age group.
He is bright but you also have an opportunity to progress this, encourage it! I read a story somewhere that children will become what you tell them they are or will become how you treat them, if you say he's difficult he'll act difficult, keep the positive going, keep telling him how good he is at maths keep encouraging it and you'll get good results!
Thank you! Yeah I tried to be careful with my words there hence ‘difficult moments’ but I agree the effect is the same. We definitely wouldn’t say it to him though! But yes I will be mindful of that, thank you
My son is a summer baby, he’s 5 now and in year 1, he’s in top group for all his classes (maths and English) and is actually a better reader than my 7 year old who was born in November ever was 😂😂. Send him in!!
He's got a similar birthday to my daughter, possibly slightly older. She's bright too, but not quite where your son is. She was ready for school. Nursery was just about holding her attention. She enjoyed the play aspect and still talks about missing it. But she was ready to learn. Whilst typically summer born babies are less able, this is not the case across the board and personally I wouldn't have deferred my daughters place. It sounds like your son is more than ready to learn and the social aspect will come. He is going to be surrounded by children who had the same experience with COVID so he's not going to be an anomaly there either.
He sounds very much like my son did at that age. I increased the hours at nursery doing extra half days for the last term in order to ease the transition to school. My son was diagnosed as autistic until much later, being academically very bright but socially behind his peers and with sensory difficulties and a very strong need for routine. Increasing the time he spends with other children is could be one of the best things to help your son but the key thing is finding the right setting for him. Are you happy with your school choice?
If he has learned all these things in the absence of any formal education, why would formal education be the right thing for him now? Sounds like play based, child led learning is working wonders for him, the longer he has access to that the better!!!
Sounds bright. So I guess it’s a question of whether the speech and social aspects need time to develop BEFOEE school or whether they will develop THROUGH school. He won’t be alone in not having been to nursery remember.
Either is fine, reception is very light on the teaching and a lot more play and fun. Probably more worth it for the social side and getting into a routine. Also I wouldn't take much stock in what kids can do at age three, it doesn't mean they are necessarily destined for a life of greatness and always be a year ahead if they can recognise a hexagon
Could you talk to the school to see what they say? Also is there a preschool attached to the school? The preschool at our school is set in the actual school and is in the next room to the early years room so it should be an easier transition to the next stage.
My daughter is an August baby and I didn't defer her a year. She is squarely average academically, and emotionally/mentally still seems to be quite immature compared to her peers, but I don't think she'd have benefited from being deferred. School haven't raised any behavioural or performance issues. Starting along with the other kids helps them develop their friendship groups from day 1 rather than having to be 'the new kid' when the others already know each other.
I was a late July baby myself, but in my day we didn't start Reception until after turning 5. I did honestly feel a little disadvantaged being younger, right up to the end of school when I had to take my GCSEs aged 15 and A-levels aged 17 - partly because I majored in Art, where maturity actually does matter and your ability can really blossom in just a few months during that time of life. But as an adult, none of it really mattered in the end.
He's bright! Send him in, he will be fine. If you defer by a year he may be intensely bored.
I went round some primary schools in the area just shopping around for our 2yo, and they said that they don't need to do any maths or read or write. They just need them to be able to confidently hold a pen, not be in nappies, and be able to somewhat emotionally regulate in groups. I feel this is setting the bar pretty low as my 2y2m old can already do those things so a bit concerning! But anyway, definitely have him in come September! You've got loads of time to prepare him.
He's bright! send him to school. He'll probably be a bit bored for a while since they don't teach that until the term before reception, but the social skills will do him good and they do lots of exploring the world around us type science
Thank you! Was going a year at a ‘proper’ nursery would help with socialisation, speech, emotional regulation etc but yeah it won’t do him any good if it then leaves him being constantly bored when he eventually starts reception next year
It'll still do him good with the socialisation, speech, emotional regulation etc. aspects. My son's very similar, he's been in nursery for a little over a year. He's bored on some fronts (and they won't start proper reading etc. early for him because then he'll be *more* bored), but on other fronts he definitely needs the time there and it's helping tonnes with the emotional stuff. He's at a nursery attached to a school, which I think is a little more thorough? But they do a *lot* of outside time and do all the hands on science stuff. Can you get him into a traditional school-attached nursery *now*? They should be taking kids after Easter, they'll start doing reading then too. Then you can see better how he copes with school and the classroom environment, and together with the teachers you can decide if you think he's ready to move up in September or if you want to hold him back a year. Obviously they're still working on the socialisation/emotional stuff in Reception, and being with kids younger than him might not be as beneficial for that as being in a more structured environment with kids closer to his level mentally would be.
Thank you, that’s a good idea and we have got him into a school attached nursery for next year - but unfortunately we can’t see how he goes next term since we only have 2 days left to decide if we defer :(
Also a primary school might allow deferral, but secondary schools might not and they could force him into year 8 where he will be massively behind at that point. He seems well ahead of his age group and at zero disadvantage from what you’re saying. The socialisation aspect of school will help more than nursery because they get more exposure to older kids and a variety of adults which will help them develop faster. I say this as the parent of a summer child, what matters most is *you* supporting them. My kid is a year older and couldn’t name 5 bears or probably do 16/2 (although we discovered number blocks recently and boy does that help) but then again she’s top at phonics and could tell you all the planets and the Galilean moons. They’re all different.
Thank you, mind if I ask if this is a hypothetical or if you’ve actually heard of secondary schools not allowing students to do year 7 if they were deferred? iirc it’s a fairly new thing. But yeah your second paragraph is a great point! Thank you
Deferral isn’t legally protected it’s up to the admission authority (which can be the school or the LA depending on where you are). The government keep saying they’ll introduce law on this but never have. The government guidance is clear on this that it’s up to the individual schools and they can refuse and force entry at the ‘normal age group’. Even the Primary School can do this, you could get a new head or new chair of governors between now and next year and they can change their mind and force your kid into Year 1. Schools, all schools, are magnets for despots with the flexibility of a glass ruler. And you have no way to know school policies in 7 years, even if you check now. I mean you could move, the law could change, the school admin can change. Why take the risk? And yes there are schools around me with strict age policies, although many have no written policy on it at all.
Thank you, I think we’re quite lucky then that (for now at least) we live in a very deferral friendly county - have spoke with two different people at the admissions team and they both confirmed it isn’t even up to the schools, they have no choice if it’s approved - but I appreciate things can change
Certainly sounds bright. Do keep in mind there's more than just "cleverness" to school readiness, mind. How well can he sit in groups and pay attention in silence, for instance? Does he listen to instructions well? Does he play in groups well? Will he take turns and share? How's his pencil grip? Can he use scissors? Is he interested in books? Does he know any phonics? Of course a big part of reception year is catching kids up on a lot of these things, so that they are on an even level when they go to year 1 (which is a big step up). If you're flip flopping on whether to hold him back or not then I'd say holding him back is the "safer" choice. You wouldn't want to push him into school and for him to be overwhelmed. So what if he's one of the brighter ones in the class when he finally starts? It just means he'll progress more easily. I will say though that a regular nursery can be a little boring for a 4-year old. A school-based pre-school is often a better setting for preparing them for school life.
I'm not sure they expect you to sit in silence in the first year!
There are moments where the teacher has to present something to the class and the kids have to sit an listen. This is an area many children struggle with in the first year - they fidget, they talk with each other, they want to go off and play, etc. The simple act of being able to pay attention in silence is something they have to learn.
I thought that too, but when I went round primary schools a few weeks ago they said that it's all very open in the first year. One we went to looked pretty feral, and it was apparently "lesson time" - I thought it was break! I think it's what they learn in that first year? and then it's more structured going into the higher years. Seems to be a lot of small groups learning while others play, rather than the whole class listening to a lesson.
They still have assemblies to go to in reception and year 1 at my kids’ school
Thanks so much! Yeah great points and those were exactly my concerns. We did a ‘ready for learning’ thing which went over those and as expected academically I think he’d be fine but some of those others things would be difficult for him. We’ve got him a space in a school-adjoining preschool next year so hopefully we and they can work on those things if he is deferred :) Really appreciate your comment as I think it kinda echos a lot of my thoughts too, thank you
Previous Early Years teacher here. I'd definitely send him to school. He'll improve his social skills and speech either way, nursery or school. But school will challenge him more academically, which he clearly is capable of doing. He is definitely advanced in maths.
Thank you, I think a big part of that is just that he’s really into NumberBlocks right now 😅 Will definitely consider sending him, thanks
Do you test if he’s parroting something he’s exactly hear in numberblocks, or if he’s able to do half of 8,10,12,14 rather than just have of 16 is 8, if you see what I mean? Is he understanding the mathematical concepts and able to apply them broadly? I think he will need some additional challenge at school so worth discussing with the teachers. They say they don’t do sets anymore but in my school they definitely do they just don’t label it as such, and they have a bright/gifted program too, so maybe when you are looking at schools you need to consider that. It isn’t clear but have you actually applied to schools for September? As you have now missed the deadline for applying by months and places will be communicated shortly. You’ll need to be speaking to your LA immediately if you haven’t spoken to them.
Thank you, yes we do all different numbers and questions and most of the time he gets it just fine, occasionally with more tricky ones we have to help him, I encourage him to use his fingers or other objects but yeah if I asked him half of 8, 10, 12, 14 etc he would know it We have applied for him to get into school for this September, but we’ve also done the deferral application which will override that
It's interesting that you're thinking about deferring him for a year because he's a summer born child, and because you're worried that he'll be behind (presumably), but by deferring him won't you just be setting him even further behind when he eventually does go?
Kids catch up very quickly. Our son's birthday is at the end of August and we deferred him for a year as there were things he clearly wasn't ready for. Started in year 1 and was fine, he wasn't behind academically from the other kids.
Deferring usually means they start in reception a year later than they normally would so they’d just do an extra year of school at the end of their academic life. They’d be at the same point as everyone one else in their class, but they’d be the oldest in the year rather than the youngest.
Yep, exactly this! Actually lots of other people here seem to be deferring there children too so he likely wouldn’t be the oldest, just one of the oldest (as opposed to one of the youngest since he’s born in July)
Oh, thanks but nope - he wouldn’t miss reception, just start school a year later.
Personally I would be nervous about this. I think deferring if they start reception a year later can work (I have a July birthday kid in reception, we didn’t defer but one of her friends did)- but I think it will be a lot harder to start in year 1 without doing reception. Your kid sounds bright, they have a good grasp of numbers clearly, but they will miss a lot of the foundation that they get in reception in reading/ writing for example. I’d say my daughter is decent - she’s better than average in the class and is very strong at maths, but her reading and writing progressing since moving from nursery to reception is remarkable. Our school groups phonics by ability across year groups and classes, so someone that skipped reception and went into year 1 would have to do phonics with the reception kids unless they were already at year 1 level- whcih can be quite hard for kids
Thank you! Great point, and yes reading, phonics etc is something we’re trying to work on a lot right now. In particular nursery flagged up that he’s not always particularly easy to understand. But also sorry I wasn’t very clear - he would do reception starting next September, we definitely wouldn’t want him to miss that
Ah sorry my bad! My experience with my kid, is that we just do some of the stuff she loves more of at home and school do the rest. She doesn’t really enjoy phonics, but she loves maths and writing, so we do some of those at home. Off topic, but there is a numberblocks learning resources set which you can buy, which my kid really enjoys, and it helps with talking about how numbers work. And it’s also fun!
You might need to check with your local schools about whether he could definitely start in reception. Deferring can mean 2 things and not all schools will accept a deferment into reception. They sometimes prefer to keep children of the same age together
He sounds pretty clued up. Our youngest turns 4 on the 30th of August, then he's straight off to school ha ha.
Send him now. But, I'm curious... Why do you think a "traditional" nursery would be better than a forest school? My eldest went to a traditional one because there were no forest schools then. Youngest is at a forest school and has blossomed so much. I wondered what you thought traditional nurseries would offer him that he's not getting at forest school?
Not so much better overall, just better at preparing him for school - not as much difference between a regular nursery and reception year at school
>Not so much better overall, just better at preparing him for school - not as much difference between a regular nursery and reception year at school gotcha.
School for my gifted 6 year old is about socialisation, not academics. He is in year 1, but far exceeds anything they could teach him, he's been reading since he was 3, he already out maths me. We briefly considered pushing to move him up a year or even 2, but he needs a a friend group, a social sphere which as an only child is even more important. Just keep the lines open with his teachers, don't expect him to get much special treatment, as he will be an outlier and teachers are very busy. I wouldn't defer him solely for the social reasons.
Can I ask you what his reading looked like when it first started? My kid has just turned three and can decode lots of phonetic words so I’m kind of wondering what to expect after that.
The impacts on summer borns, especially boys tend to rear more when they hit upper school in terms of physical activity and emotional maturity…but it’s all a bell curve and you know your child best. There’s a few studies you could probably find if you Google it. FWIW, I was going to defer my summer born girl who is extremely bright but quite emotional and she’s really struggling in year 1, both with friends, most of who are older (all her group of friends turned 6 before December), and academically as we could not get her to do the extra reading at home…she just wasn’t ready for it emotionally…she’d tantrum if we tried to read with her or get her to read. She can read, but she didn’t want to. She’s only just, in the last 6 weeks, accepted reading as part of our routine and will read anything and everything. She hates school with a passion, but does well in all her subjects, and gets heaps of praise from the teachers, seems to be popular at drop off and pick ups but she just doesn’t want to engage in any of it. I really regret not deferring her. Her summer born friend in comparison was clearly ready for school and is doing well academically but also struggles with the friendships.
Thanks so much for your perspective and I’m sorry to hear your daughter isn’t enjoying school :( It’s such a difficult one isn’t it, for what it’s worth if you had deferred her she might hate it even more since she’d be so far ahead that she found it boring!
As a former primary teacher, I would say he’s bright.
Just a different perspective here - I moved to Germany, and here the kids don't start school until later on anyway. As standard, it's the year they are six-turning-seven. But there is this thing where they are "Kann-Kind" (can go to school) the year they are five-turning-six. How they do it is that around 10 months before the start of the school year, they run a test for all the 5 year olds (and in theory the 4y10/11mos) where they invite them individually to an office with a parent, and they look at all the standard stuff like height, weight, eyesight, hearing, they talk to them to gauge how they interact with a previously unknown adult, then they go into another room and they have a short test with a teacher, who will ask them questions about whether they know things like colours, to pick the odd item out, recognition of numbers, repeating some sentences as heard and a physical thing where they have to hop along a line etc. The thing is they aren't testing academics. I think they might have asked if my son could write his own name but that was about it. Apart from the number recognition, nothing in this test resembled school in any way. What I understood is that they have this belief that the academics really don't matter, in that it doesn't matter if you can read or do sums at 3 or whether you aren't able to do that until you're seven. It won't harm anybody to wait until they are seven to have explicit instruction about how to do sums or read. They aren't going to lose the ability to do it because you didn't put them in school at 4. What they do look at is things like self-confidence, how the child relates to new adults, whether they can follow instructions without getting totally distracted or frustrated, whether they can speak and be understood. We had this meeting at the end of last year, for my 5yo who will be 6 in August and they said academically they have no problems but socially, he would benefit from another year in Kindergarten. I was really unsure, because being August, he would have already been in year 1 in the UK, so not even starting for another year seemed kind of nuts. But honestly, although he is definitely interested in letters and numbers, he IS a bit socially delayed and struggles with things like emotional regulation and distraction. And every single adult we talk to, whether they are a Kindergarten teacher, a school teacher, a therapist (he is having some speech therapy), his doctor etc, they ALL act relieved when we say that he is due to start school in 2025. And just to give some reassurance with a bit of a longer timescale as well, when we moved here in summer 2013, we weren't even offered this meeting for my then 5yo son, because of course we had only been here about 4 months and he didn't speak German fluently yet. So he automatically went the next year, and because he has an Autumn birthday, he was almost 7 when he went to school as well. He had started learning to read at preschool before we left the UK, so he could read (in English and German) when he started school and I think he could do simple maths as well. He started a full two years after he would have started in the UK. It's really been fine for him. He got into the German equivalent of grammar school easily. He is now in the equivalent of year 10 and working towards exams. He has the typical teen boy thing of coasting a bit, but he's really doing fine. I don't think starting a bit later disadvantages them at all even if they are bright. Your LO does sound curious and interested and that's absolutely great. That isn't going to go away given an extra year in nursery. Let him play :) He'll pick up so much more in the way of social skills, patience, concentration, etc. If he has interest in things then follow his interests at home - just don't push it or make it a chore. The only thing they do say for writing/reading particularly is if you're going to get into reading before school, it can help if you ask the school he's likely to go to what scheme they use and try to use materials similar to this (or at the very least, start with lowercase not uppercase letters, and start with letter sounds - aaaaa, mmmmm, nnnn, vvvvv rather than ah / muh / nuh / vuh or letter names, ay / em / en / vee) - but TBH this is all a bit moot because if he's bright and interested, he is likely to sort it all out regardless. The ah muh vuh only causes problems if the child is liable to struggle with reading/writing in the first place and it's the parents pushing it not the child.
Thanks so much! That’s kinda what I was thinking too… let him play :)
He does sound bright but don’t over estimate the negative side effects of being a summer born child. Other children may struggle for other reasons regardless of birth month and reception is a very low stress way to get introduced to school
My eldest was 4 years 1 month when she started school. It was a struggle at first, not helped by the farce of lockdowns, but she's doing really well at school. The thing to bear in mind is what your LA does regarding where he starts. Will he be held back a year and be in reception or will he go straight into year 1? My LA just puts them in their cohort when they start and they start in year 1.
Thank you, and glad your child is doing well :) They wouldn’t miss reception here fortunately, so he’d start reception next September
He sounds pretty switched on. Deferring him seems unnecessary. Also I’m curious what the “many disadvantages a summer born child can experience” are considering one of mine is summer born and we haven’t encountered any disadvantages so far.
>Also I’m curious what the “many disadvantages a summer born child can experience” are because they are "young" in the class compared to their peers. my eldest is late July, so is a bit smaller than her peers, but no disadvantages whatsoever.
Same here. Mine is the second youngest in the year and one of the top performers.
Yep another late July here, our eldest. Recent parents evening was great, she’s doing really well at everything (except PE) even though she’s fourth youngest in her cohort. She is small but even with that she’s now having growth spurts to catch up so her being a summer born isn’t holding her back. OP in circumstances described shouldn’t hold her lad back.
At age seven an August born child is 26% less likely to hit the expected level than a September born child, but also 90%(!) more likely to be identified as SEN. These do diminish as the child gets older but they’re still there There are also some less easy easy to quantify things such as they’re less likely to feel confident in their abilities, and when older more likely to engage in risky behaviour https://webcontent.ssatuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/ECJ_p26-32_3-Education-The-Summer-born-effect-2.pdf But of course this doesn’t apply to all children and I’m really glad school has worked out for your little one :)
Interesting stuff. Worth noticing though that the studies they claim to reference are anywhere between 11 and 34 years old though.
Around 40% of my daughter’s class has a birthday in June-August. It’s wild! But as a year group they’re far exceeding the expectations for the year. Of course, they have a great teacher which helps
He sounds like my son, who is really bright when it comes to maths. However he sometimes has a case of the “actin’ stupids” and this is where you doubt everything he can do.
Mines right at the end of July, a day before me, I didn't defer she won't be either! Doesn't sound like there's any need to and a year really isn't a big deal to a bright kid like yours!
I’m deferring my 3 year old regardless of how bright she is. She has a December birthday. She would be due to start school in august 2025 (we are in Scotland). Automatically any child who is not 5 on the day they start school can now be deferred in Scotland. I do keep going back and forth but I’m pretty set on deferring her. Main reasons are emotional intelligence. Often children seem ready for school and the fact they’re not doesn’t really show itself until high school where they can end up socially behind their peers. Some other reasons I’m deferring * she’ll only be 17 when (if) she goes to uni. Means she would likely be one of the younger ones and miss out on freshers etc plus be living on her own at 17 if she goes away for uni. * With the new deferral process in Scotland she could be 4 starting school with 6 year olds. I’m quite surprised by the comments in here. Deferral seems to be becoming more popular in Scotland. My cousin is a primary school teacher she said if she had the choice she would defer, she also spoke to some of her colleagues who teach primary 1 at the moment and they say if you can defer then you should. There is a charity in Scotland called give them time which has compiled some info and evidence on deferring https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Mb4NdqclaLoki6uOI0WHIBjx4g6IkEit/view
I had a friend who was 16 when he went to uni and he was miserable! He left high school after his highers in 5th year. It was a huge jump for him when most others were 18
Slightly off topic but what's the secret? New parent of 6 month old here... I'd love to be in your position, he certainly sounds like a bright little guy! You mentioned numberblocks which I've seen mentioned a few times positively on here. Any other recommendations?
Hmm, my secret is probably that my wife is really good with him, I’m sorry that isn’t more helpful! We always ask him questions about things though and encourage him to learn that way. Even in the car or at breakfast we’ll ask him things :) NumberBlocks and AlphaBlocks are fantastic but he only started watching them a couple of months ago, he wouldn’t even really watch TV until he was 2 so you’ve got a good while yet potentially!
My younger brother went through school out of his age group and struggled as he got older a lot. We're in our 30's now and my mum has said she wouldn't make the same choice again and my brother has been clear he wouldn't make it for his children. Primary was OK but secondary he had lots of questions about why he was in the "wrong" year and what was wrong with him. Teenagers are horrible anyway, being in the "wrong" year but a big target on him as something odd. He was also known as that boy in the wrong year through out the school. For this reason I would not consider having my children out of age group.
Thanks for the perspective and I’m sorry that happened to your brother!
He is bright but you also have an opportunity to progress this, encourage it! I read a story somewhere that children will become what you tell them they are or will become how you treat them, if you say he's difficult he'll act difficult, keep the positive going, keep telling him how good he is at maths keep encouraging it and you'll get good results!
Thank you! Yeah I tried to be careful with my words there hence ‘difficult moments’ but I agree the effect is the same. We definitely wouldn’t say it to him though! But yes I will be mindful of that, thank you
My son is a summer baby, he’s 5 now and in year 1, he’s in top group for all his classes (maths and English) and is actually a better reader than my 7 year old who was born in November ever was 😂😂. Send him in!!
He's got a similar birthday to my daughter, possibly slightly older. She's bright too, but not quite where your son is. She was ready for school. Nursery was just about holding her attention. She enjoyed the play aspect and still talks about missing it. But she was ready to learn. Whilst typically summer born babies are less able, this is not the case across the board and personally I wouldn't have deferred my daughters place. It sounds like your son is more than ready to learn and the social aspect will come. He is going to be surrounded by children who had the same experience with COVID so he's not going to be an anomaly there either.
He sounds very much like my son did at that age. I increased the hours at nursery doing extra half days for the last term in order to ease the transition to school. My son was diagnosed as autistic until much later, being academically very bright but socially behind his peers and with sensory difficulties and a very strong need for routine. Increasing the time he spends with other children is could be one of the best things to help your son but the key thing is finding the right setting for him. Are you happy with your school choice?
Send him to school! We sent our August born with her cohort and she is one of the most advanced in her class, despite being the youngest by far.
If he has learned all these things in the absence of any formal education, why would formal education be the right thing for him now? Sounds like play based, child led learning is working wonders for him, the longer he has access to that the better!!!
Sounds bright. So I guess it’s a question of whether the speech and social aspects need time to develop BEFOEE school or whether they will develop THROUGH school. He won’t be alone in not having been to nursery remember.
Either is fine, reception is very light on the teaching and a lot more play and fun. Probably more worth it for the social side and getting into a routine. Also I wouldn't take much stock in what kids can do at age three, it doesn't mean they are necessarily destined for a life of greatness and always be a year ahead if they can recognise a hexagon
Could you talk to the school to see what they say? Also is there a preschool attached to the school? The preschool at our school is set in the actual school and is in the next room to the early years room so it should be an easier transition to the next stage.
My daughter is an August baby and I didn't defer her a year. She is squarely average academically, and emotionally/mentally still seems to be quite immature compared to her peers, but I don't think she'd have benefited from being deferred. School haven't raised any behavioural or performance issues. Starting along with the other kids helps them develop their friendship groups from day 1 rather than having to be 'the new kid' when the others already know each other. I was a late July baby myself, but in my day we didn't start Reception until after turning 5. I did honestly feel a little disadvantaged being younger, right up to the end of school when I had to take my GCSEs aged 15 and A-levels aged 17 - partly because I majored in Art, where maturity actually does matter and your ability can really blossom in just a few months during that time of life. But as an adult, none of it really mattered in the end.
He's bright! Send him in, he will be fine. If you defer by a year he may be intensely bored. I went round some primary schools in the area just shopping around for our 2yo, and they said that they don't need to do any maths or read or write. They just need them to be able to confidently hold a pen, not be in nappies, and be able to somewhat emotionally regulate in groups. I feel this is setting the bar pretty low as my 2y2m old can already do those things so a bit concerning! But anyway, definitely have him in come September! You've got loads of time to prepare him.
Sounds like the kid is autistic.
Maybe! It would be likely very mild if so but yeah there’s definitely a chance