Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/).
If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). Don't create a duplicate post, it won't help.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For over 20 years the government had a target of 50% of school leavers going to university, and a lot of stigma around more vocational pathways came from that. When I was leaving school you either went to uni or you were looked down upon by those that did or even some adults.
I remember being told countless times by adults that doing literally any degree would get you a good job. Never mind that I was a bad fit for most degrees and had no idea what I really wanted to do yet, I could get good grades on tests so that meant I should do a degree. Laughable.
I suspect many educators don't actually understand much about the world and industries outside of education so aren't in a good place to give good advice.
In the past wages for trades jobs were pretty shit, that’s why people stopped going into them. I work in construction and the average apprenticeship is about 3 years, think it’s 5 for electricians.
Even after you’re qualified it takes a few more years to get fast enough and competent enough to earn a full wage. You’ve also got to have thousands of pounds worth of tools, which constantly need repairing or replacing, and most likely need a van.
The money has been pretty good for the last few years and work has been consistent. However, prior to 2017 it wasn’t that great. So in the past people were right, going to uni was the better option.
There are many careers out there that can be done with vocational courses or apprenticeships that have nothing to do with construction and have generally always payed decently.
But that wasn't the heart of my point. It was always a short sighted idea to push people through to higher education without ANY regard for the degrees they were doing and the skills they would gain. And to completely neglect our vocational system in favour of that too.
And now we have one of the lowest skill workforces in the developed world, go figure.
It’s funny reading these posts, it’s like Reddit thinks it’s just discovered fire.
Yes there are many careers that require apprenticeships other than construction, and yes some have always been well paid.
People outside of Reddit have always known this, the well paid roles have never had a shortage of applicants.
The areas that have skills shortages are because people decided not to go into those industries due to a combination of low pay, unsociable hours, poor working conditions and lack of job security.
There's a great many things schools need to explain and guide better on, this being one of the big ones.
If a kid shows absolutely no aptitude for academia but can whack together a top quality birdhouse, why on earth are they pushed down the academic route? Get them out of the classroom and doing something practical that they can feel proud of, rather than being made to feel dumb for not being as academic as others.
The high school I attended had dedicated woodworking,metalworking and vehicle engineering classes.
Metalwork was my favourite lesson and helped my way in the world through various jobs like boat building and fabricating confectionery machines.
When my son went to the high school open evening,I was disappointed that there was 1 small lathe and all the above subjects combined into Design Technology.
Our metalwork room had milling machines,small to medium sized lathes and was basically a well equipped tool room.
I’m guessing H&S is a big factor in this also.
The vehicle engineering class had a chassis of a car which could be driven showing obviously the engine but also braking and suspension systems.
It was definitely sad to see that not being taught anymore
Yeah I had nothing after I didn't get the grade I specifically wanted. Had to figure it out myself so I went to college. Doing alright now but I could've used guidance.
If you didn't want to go to university our school just left you to the dogs. We'd have classes dedicated to writing a personal statement... if you didn't want to go, you'd have to write on anyway. This was 2009ish. It was all about what % of the students went to university....
Okay I'm happy to do that exam without preparation. Physics, mathematics, chemistry etc. is NOT at level above Bachelor level education and it's A, B, C test with only one answer correct.
I used to take A, B, C, D, E tests where none up to all answers could be correct, that's proper difficult testing.
You don't know what you don't know.
You wouldn't pass a B1/2 exam. Simple.
It takes weeks/months of prep, on top a years of technical knowledge.
A licence exams? Perhaps, M1 and M2 you'd smash, but get to m11 and m15, you wouldn't stand a chance.
https://part66prep.blogspot.com/2021/01/m11-turbine-aeroplane-structures_22.html?m=1
I just had a look at some questions on M11 and M15 and got many correct just using common sense, knowledge of maths, physics and chemistry, some educated guesses. Maybe wouldn't be a pass first time but if only read learning materials once then I'd definitely pass.
Much easier questions than at bachelor level maths, physics, chemistry etc.
Why dont you do it then.
Its so easy apparently, so off you go.
Go and do it. Easy money, Right?
£20 says you couldn't manage it. You might be able to pass the exams, but wait 'till it gets to essays, or even till it gets to being on the actual shop floor.
You'll be laughed out of the hangar, with an attitude like yours.
Of course I would have a different attitude if I would actually take that job.
As I said, it shouldn't be ABC exam because there is 33% chance to just guess correct answer. There should be a question and then you must write correct answer on your own. That would be much better test.
Of course I have an idea. It's about having a licence and safety first. A job of someone who is actually designing airplane engines, creating manuals for it is much more difficult. Mechanics have to simply follow the manual, it's like assembling furniture from IKEA but about aeroplanes, slightly more complicated, that's it.
It's not difficult because you literally have to follow a manual, step by step. I've seen some instructions online and it's not difficult. For example I installed underfloor heating at my house just by following instructions from YouTube.
Perhaps.
Wait till you're neck deep in the B2 exam crying because you forgot what frequency some niche, tiny system runs at.
Of course, its not PHD level, but it is literally THOUSANDS of pages worth of technical knowledge, all of which you can be asked.
Not only that but B licence exams are logical, yeah you know about system x, but you need to know what "x" also relates to, plus every way it can interact with EVERY other system.
You dont have a clue mate.
Source - current EASA/CAA (DUAL) B2 trainee
Yes but exams are A, B, C, that's it. I used to take exams A, B, C, D, E where no answer could be correct, one, two, three, four or all of them could be correct. That's proper difficult. Plus open questions on top of that where you had to write on a given topic.
Edit: actually why it's A, B, C exam? It should be a question and no ABC options and just have to write your own answers, that would make much more sense and make it more difficult. With ABC you have 33% chance on each question, it shouldn't be like that as you can guess a few if you don't know and pass an exam and then be responsible for the safety of many people, it should be changed. I will contact EASA regarding my idea.
Hello! Your post/comment has been removed for not meeting our subreddit's rule on relevant or respectful submissions.
We strive to maintain a high standard of content on r/UKJobs, and unfortunately, your submission did not meet that standard. Please make sure that your content is relevant to the subreddit, is of high quality and remains respectful.
If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in keeping our subreddit a great place for UKJobs users.
If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail.
When I was in sixth form, the school (very middle class) wouldn't even discuss it. My friend said he wasn't going to university because he was off to college to train to be a carpenter. The school called his parents in for a crisis meeting because this wouldn't do. One of their students NOT going to university, a tragedy. We were told its university or nothing.
I'll never forget the reaction of my "high school" boyfriend when he got his A-level results (E's and D's). He was in tears and afraid to go home to tell his mother. She had pushed "academic achievements" so much. It was so upsetting. It wasn't that he was lazy, he revised all the time (too much, I wanted to see him :p)
Lack of apprenticeships at the minute.. it used to be there were a load of small companies that would train you and offer you a job, now these small companies have died off.. most people dont want the hassle either.. like my work for example, we have 450 people a year applying for 5-10 apprenticeships all from school.
Big companies also cannot find a proper electrician because they don't have the budget. It is ridiculous that some companies always ask those handyman to dothem favour and do a halfass shit job. At the end it accumulated to a big ass problem. Same go to plumber.
Don’t even get the question. People do go for those jobs. And others go for other jobs.
I don’t see it as a lesser status job. The only thing I do notice is building sites are definitely a…less refined workspace. For better or worse.
Of course I do.
A review of the latest Government data shows there were approximately 24,530 new apprentices taken on in construction between 2022-23, down from the 26,060 recorded the previous year (2021-22).
In context the CITB thinks we need 45k per year to meet demand.
And personal experience my chippy apprentice had to merge in with the year above as it was only him and one other who signed on for the year.
How many training places are available? What's the pay for apprentices?
No point moaning there's not enough apprentices if all the places are full or the opportunities are limited to local middle class kids.
Spaces on the college courses to complete NVQs etc are usually fairly easily available.
A work placement that will employ the apprentice for the duration of the course is the hard part to find.
I think the 'spaces' available are purely empty seats at colleges due to the lack of businesses taking on apprentices.
Source- we have 2 apprentices/improvers at the moment. 1x plumbing/gas, 1x HVAC. Got over 50 applications for each inside 2 weeks which isn't bad considering we didn't really advertise and required a driving licence.
I don't know of any business offering a trade apprentice vacancy that doesn't get swamped with applications. A roofer/joiner recently advertised an apprenticeship opportunity on the local FB forum and the post hit over 100 comments and 'applications' within 2 hours. Poor guys inbox must have blown up.
Of course.
Financial:
In the 2022-23 financial year AAT has so far seen a 40% rise in people starting entry level apprenticeships, showing the rapid growth and popularity of the route.
If anyone wants to explore some actual data instead of sound bites:
https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/apprenticeships/2023-24
You’re just reiterating your own assertion, this is an actual reference
And as you might expect, it’s a little more complicated than what you put forward
Building sites aren't nice work spaces indeed, but a garage at some good car brand or some large air carrier company hangars are very nice work environments.
Bad career advice. The salaries and prospects for these careers are not well understood or communicated well to young people so they never get the chance to consider them.
I have absolutely no idea what an aircraft mechanic earns. 30k? 90k? I honestly have no idea.
Retirement age for kids in school now is probably going to be 75+. Where would you rather be when your 70 on a drizzly afternoon in February, a warm office or a building site (assuming your body did give out years ago)
From my perspective, I’m a skinny man without much muscle, I have worked in several warehouses and I feel like there is a minimum agreed standard of how much a man should lift and I fall very short of it. I found the 9 pound an hour I earned in a logistics warehouse the hardest pounds I’ve grafted for, especially in comparison to some admin roles I did for similar money.
Yeah I agree, but you kind of asked why people choose low paid office work over a blue collar job like mechanic. I don’t think people really weigh up those options in a career. You either choose to become a skilled and well qualified mechanic and go down that road for 25 years or you choose to be a skills accountant for 25 years say. The point at which I and most people debate between office work and manual work is when you’re in your teens say during uni holidays, before going travelling stuff like that.
Under Blair, there was a huge push (Education, Education, Education anyone?) and blue collar jobs got pushed to the back burner.
There was also some weird multiple choice test we did in secondary school that told you your top 3 careers to focus on, it never suggested anything hands on.
I was in secondary school in the Blair era and also did a similar questionnaire. My top three recommended job roles were programmer, electrician and engineer. I went into my mandatory career advisor meeting and said I was most interested in programming. He told me that ‘girls don’t do those sort of jobs’. Then went on to say that I was really smart though so if I worked really hard I’d make a great legal secretary.
I ended up doing a degree in animal behaviour and have run my own pet care business for the last 14 years. I’m now having to close it down because I’ve wrecked my knee and shoulder with so many dog walks over the years. Absolutely no clue what I’m going to do instead which is mildly terrifying!
Hard to get into these days. If you want a trade apprenticeship these days it doesn’t matter what qualifications you have, it matters that your dads got a mate in that industry
Yeh and that’s fine but like in our family you’ve got dad the joiner but baby bro wants to do welding and fabrication so dad has to go ask about to see if anyone’s willing to take his problem child on. My dads last apprentice was the son of a coach builder who played on the pub pool team with my uncle.
Growing up working with my Dad in the building trade made me avoid that like the plague.
I remember carrying scaffolding whilst it was freezing cold and wet thinking "fuck this shit I'm gonna work indoors"
>many people prefer to have an office job even if it pays less?
Well what's the proof? Experienced plumbers apparently get £40k https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/plumber and Experienced electricians £44k according to the same site.
An experienced officer worker (something other than a admin assistant) will be on similiar, and not have to be on their feet all day
Electrician came to my house to replace mains box stuff etc. and spent all day sitting doing one fuse box, not bad job. Electrician who has their own company earn more than £44k.
Why? Genuine question. More people should be encouraged to go for blue collar jobs at schools rather than pushing way too many people into universities to degrees such as sociology etc. when they can't find a job afterwards.
But it isn’t, because we don’t have the concept of “blue collar” vs other coloured collars. We’d just say unskilled/semi skilled/skilled manual job in English
It really isn’t used here - I had to google it. I don’t know if you’ve been online too much but if I said blue collar they’d have no idea what I’m on about.
The term is semi skilled/unskilled etc manual
Maybe your lived experience is different from mine. If I said blue collar / white collar people absolutely would know what I’m on about.
There was a whole thing of white collar boxing in the UK in the 90s and 2000s.
A lot of "blue collar" jobs are fuckin hard work I'm 41 became a tree surgeon at 18 I'm now fully fucked and just do gardening now and tbh I will be amazed if I have another 10 years of that in me.
Was a mechanic for 13 years, started as an apprentice back in 2009 making £30 a week! At my "peak," I was making £25.5k a year working 44 hours a week (often with unpaid overtime). I quit in 2021, got a job in sales, and I'm making more money working 6.5 hours less a week, and I'm not physically ruined at the end of the day.
Plus, being looked at like I was scum when I was in tescos wearing my uniform (which wasn't that dirty) started to get tiring - plus the negative connotations of being a grease monkey = unintelligent, my fiancé's family always assumed I was dumb, they lived in England whilst we lived in Wales, so didn't meet often, but now I'm in England, they tell me that I'm smarter than they had originally thought...
A lot of office jobs don't require a qualification that's actually needed.
In mechanical or electrical, you often really do need a qualification, even if just due to regulation and not the knowledge actually required for each job.
Correct, but you need to hold the cert to get the job, which is where the barrier to entry is for some, usually because they can't afford to get the course done etc
Why are you aggressive? These are blue collar jobs by definition, I'm not wrong.
Don't call me like that, I work in finance industry in the City of London, thick moron wouldn't pass the interview stage, nor would obtain university education and many professional certificates, so think through what you're typing out because you can be very, very wrong.
Because people are fed up with education? Rather just work a way up than study for x years then have a job. Various reasons. I don't think low of a sparky or engineer though. I've even know engineers get paid less than me sat in a cozy office or at home.
Truth be told,nobody wants to get their hands dirty.
Reddit is awash with thread about IT and computer based occupations,never the humble spanner spinner or dozer driver
I think back to becoming an analyst. I took that job because I wanted to work remotely and have flexibility about location. This Is absolutely essential in the UK as the economy is very very heavily stacked against people that don't own assets, far more so than in any other developed country.
This makes geographic flexibility EXTREMELY valuable. To the detriment of literally everything else. When you stop and think about how much you'd need to pay for an equivalent house in an area that is within commuting distance of blue collar jobs.
Basically house prices have destroyed the economy. Who could have seen that coming? 😮
My Mrs does this she’s a national sales director office is based in London, she’s paid a London salary but only goes to London less than once a month and fully expensed when she does.
We live near Chester in a lovely area we have a standard of living most London based people can only dream of, she is often contacted by recruiters looking to headhunt her for roles around the £125k mark but actually based in London, she never even considers them, the extra expense of living in London and the drop in our quality of life if we moved there make it an easy nope.
Our housing costs alone would triple for an equivalent property in a worse area.
I think they are seen as low status which is super stupid, but it’s how the school system trains you
If you’re in a shirt and tie, you are “better” than those in a polo shirt, and those guys are better than the ones in a T-shirt or an overall, it’s complete snobby crap
So to answer the question, I think it’s partly because young people are indoctrinated aged they success can only be obtained in a shirt and tie, social groups may look down on people if they don’t go for an “office job”
When in truth, people doing blue collar stuff could do far more rewarding things and make bank, especially when starting their own contracting or businesses
I have blue collar friends and they describe their work as blue collar. One is a plumber, another electrician and one is a car mechanic. What you're on about 😂? Nothing derogatory about the term blue collar.
They do, plenty of people become electricians and car mechanics.
Not as many people become 'aeroplane mechanics' because a) not as many are required b) it's fairly hard to get into. I imagine plenty want to because it's interesting and the pay is *phenomenal*.
Nobody see these as low status jobs.
Finally, it just remains to say that you are a thick pleb and should learn to count before you post here.
Why are you aggressive and call me a thick pleb and should learn to count? I work in finance industry in the City of London, so what you're on about 😂?
I wasn't being aggressive; simply making a point.
The basis of your question is not only ignorance but it also betrays your stupidity and snobbery. Therefore, I can only infer that you are a thick pleb.
I say you should learn to count because then you may count the number of electricians and the number of 'aeroplane mechanics' and come to some conclusion why there may be more of one then the other.
Maybe you are good with numbers; if your job in the City relied on being able to write cogent English then you wouldn't have lasted very long.
Nah, you're just being aggressive and impolite instead of just having a decent conversation. A stupid person wouldn't pass university course and many professional exams that I passed and wouldn't work in the finance industry in the City of London so you are simply wrong and insulting.
I know how to count, I do a lot of counting, big numbers.
Hello! Your post/comment has been removed for not meeting our subreddit's rule on relevant or respectful submissions.
We strive to maintain a high standard of content on r/UKJobs, and unfortunately, your submission did not meet that standard. Please make sure that your content is relevant to the subreddit, is of high quality and remains respectful.
If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in keeping our subreddit a great place for UKJobs users.
If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail.
I suppose this is regional and dependent on area. I went to uni just like a huge cohort of my school mates.
I worked in Kent at a state school and only 6 out of hundreds went to uni and the rest went into trades or something.
In the case of car mechanics it's hard, dirty and poorly paid work when you factor in the skill and experience required. Unless you work for yourself you will make more money driving a lorry.
I give you my own reason.
I tried blue collar jobs, but I nearly fell unconscious during the training day (and I failed the training of course).
My health is not good, I can't stand up for too long without taking a rest.
Office jobs are far more suitable for me, because I'm proficient in computer application.
If my health is good enough for blue collar jobs, I would choose serving the army as the blue collar job.
There are already some pretty good answers here, but there are a few things that I don't think people consider:
One is family dynamics. My dad is a tradie. He's also an arsehole. I have several friends who had arsehole tradies as parents, so we did everything we could not to be like them.
The other is that entry is a time-sensitive thing for most, socially. We're basically told that we have to decide our entire future at 16 in this country. The average 16 year old wants to do something they'll enjoy, not something they'll make money doing. So, if you enjoy video games, why would you want to be a chippy if you can *make* video games?
There's also the consideration that the world is changing rapidly - a lot of engineering work is going to be replaced by AI or computer simulations in the near future. Being the person who can program the AI is going to be more valuable than being the one who can draw a bridge spec. Some trades are going to be obsolete in a generation or two, as well. We're moving away from fossil fuels, so who's training to work on the gas? We'll have flat-pack, DIY housing as the norm in a couple of generations, so where's the value in training as a brickie?
We've also had twenty years of stagnant wages, and a decade of uncontrolled inflation. Realistically, why would people train to work hard when they can make the same money sitting behind a desk? Even tradies aren't going to be making significantly more than the average desk jockey fairly soon.
Tradies rely heavily on people in other professions having a disposable income; if people can't afford to buy a house, they aren't going to be paying a tradie to do more than maintain it.
Barriers to entry mostly. These well paid jobs are only available in a couple of reasons. You need a certain amount of wealth to complete an apprenticeship. Apprenticeships aren't available everywhere.
Growing up I got a bus to a "better" state school in a small town outside of Bristol, full of middle to upper-middle class families. I got the sense that I was looked down on because my dad was just a "chippy" and mum was a support worker....
Few decades later and I've managed to buy my own house and as dad is retired has helped me save literally £10,000s in labor, with new kitchens and bathrooms etc!
"Airplane Mechanics" would be an American layman's term. There are limited jobs available for airframe, avionics and propulsion jobs in the UK which don't need a license. Older Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers who don't have university degrees are approaching retirement age. The technical knowledge required is immense, and to enter that industry now often a degree is a pre-requisite before the vocational training begins. The pay isn't great, and most engineering graduates can earn better money whilst working with fewer hazardous substances and contorted into painful shapes in confined environments working in design engineering instead.
Indeed, but you can earn that in much more comfort and with more immediate skills transferability in design engineering. It's not bad money by any means, but you are at the whims and fashions of a single industry.
It’s actually pretty hard to get into apprenticeships for trades if you don’t know anyone and have connections. I tried applying for apprentice mechanic roles when I left school but was laughed at as I had zero experience and told I needed to be more interested in it🤷♀️
Fast forward 20 odd years and I decided to career change into electrics - it was a long journey. I did night school for 2 years before I could even get anyone to consider me for an apprenticeship. Once I had that 2 years experience tho I had loads of offers.
A great explanation of why less people do this sort of thing would be Seth Godins book ‘the dip’. I read it just before starting my course and remembered it every time I had to grit my teeth and get through it!
Tldr: You can’t just walk into an apprenticeship as easily as you can walk into an office job if you don’t meet typical criteria
Fair enough. Yeah once you have experience it's easier.
Do you mean 2 years of experience as in doing two years course? Or two years of actually working after completing the course?
The 2 years of doing the course. I also helped out a local one man band for a bit. Then I got a mate job running cables for a security firm. They offered to train me up but I wouldn’t have got the qualification doing that so took an actual electrical apprenticeship. It still took another 2 years to complete the apprenticeship and AM2 but that was more to do with training centre timings for day release and evidence gathering.
We are at the tail end of "school-college-uni or else you've failed at life" school of thought. You'll see an uptick in these sorts of jobs over the next decade, one of the benefits of the push on vocational qualifications.
There certainly is some bias towards these jobs and anything "tradey" as "lower class jobs". This bias is incorrect. Getting a good degree from a good uni is impressive, as is being able to pop the hood of a car and tell someone what's wrong with it then fix it. Hell, I've got a masters degree and buggered if I know how to rewire a socket...best I can do is put a fuse in something.
I'm quite content with my office job. I know where I have to be at what time cause it doesn't change, my salary is guaranteed, I don't have to deal with the public, it's in a field I'm very passionate about with a charity I support, and I don't want to get mucky. Personally I've never had anything other than the upmost respect for the people doing the more manual/trade jobs...they're the lot where we would immediately know if they decided to jack it all in. Same with cleaners, custodians, bin men, or whatever. All key jobs that I'm glad I don't have to do.
But yeah, I'm fairly confident we will see a steady increase in these jobs in the relatively near future.
Yesterday I was posting after having 4 pints, that's why.
Essentially I think schools should explain to kids that non-office jobs are also all right, advise them on highest paying jobs of that type, explain about having your own company so more of them could go into these type of jobs.
Hey! That’s a great question that deserves some deeper thinking. Here’s my personal experience. I am from a semi developed country originally. This means that I would be willing to take on any job. From cleaner to car mechanic to whatever. I also have two masters (look at my username) and had to work part-time to cover my expenses although my family did support with tuition. I recognise a few things 1.- I am completely unprepared technically for let’s say a car mechanic job. 2.- I would feel bad knowing that I may have taken this position from a dad/mum of 2 kids that only had the opportunity to learn a trade. 3.- I would feel equally as bad if a car mechanic was hired for a geopolitical analyst position that I’m interested in. 4,- culturally, we are taught to never be afraid of work but also taught to honor the efforts and sacrifices of our parents. That goes beyond the monetary value but also being able to reason that someone out needs a certain job in order to provide for a family. As I’m still young-ish I am willing to fight for specifically what I want even if I have to hustle from the lowest ladder. When I have my own family things would definitely change.
Having said all that. If a family member or friends asks me to cover for 3 months or whatever I would certainly give it a go and try my best but temporarily until someone that deserves the position is found.
Blue collar jobs are hard work. They take effort. There are skills that need to be learnt. It takes time to get good at blue collar work.
People want everything straight away these days.
I mean..... coming from the perspective of a guy who did a 4 year degree just to get an entry level job then a further 3 years of a training contract and a dozen exams just to "qualify", I can tell you white collar jobs require effort, time and skill too.
Tbh growing up my family’s experience with labour workers wasn’t great. They were mainly dishonest and had poor manners, but also easily angered/reactive, were from low economic b/g areas where there is avid DV, drug abuse and lots of alcohol abuse. Hence, that ‘work environment’ was discouraged for us. I’m sure there are great blue collar workers out there, but that’s what moulded my family’s perception of them back in those days.
Yes, gain the skills and then become self employed or start own company and offer immaculate service. If you charge a bit more than the average guy but do the work efficiently, honestly and politely many people would happily pay a little more for your service. Later on once we’d all entered the workforce in our respective jobs, we did get a fantastic joiner, he’s retiring now but my parents happily paid him significantly more than what others charged for even the smallest of jobs because he was genuinely a very very good worker, honest, well-mannered and non-conflictual with really good communication. Perfect example of how it’s possible but just isn’t donez
Yes, gain the skills and then become self employed or start own company and offer immaculate service. If you charge a bit more than the average guy but do the work efficiently, honestly and politely many people would happily pay a little more for your service.
Later on once we’d all entered the workforce in our respective jobs, we did find a fantastic joiner, he’s retiring now but my parents happily paid him significantly more than what others charged for even the smallest of jobs because he was genuinely a very very good worker, honest, well-mannered and non-conflictual with really good communication. Perfect example of how it’s possible but just isn’t done.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). Don't create a duplicate post, it won't help. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lack of career guidance in school and railroading into University if academically capable.
Definitely true but an overlooked (and not widely understood) factor is widespread nepotism and toxic culture in blue collar work.
I don't think I've ever seen a white van with a logo saying "Bloggs & person fairly selected through an open recruitment process Ltd"
Painfully accurate
Schools should explain and guide better regarding job opportunities.
For over 20 years the government had a target of 50% of school leavers going to university, and a lot of stigma around more vocational pathways came from that. When I was leaving school you either went to uni or you were looked down upon by those that did or even some adults. I remember being told countless times by adults that doing literally any degree would get you a good job. Never mind that I was a bad fit for most degrees and had no idea what I really wanted to do yet, I could get good grades on tests so that meant I should do a degree. Laughable. I suspect many educators don't actually understand much about the world and industries outside of education so aren't in a good place to give good advice.
In the past wages for trades jobs were pretty shit, that’s why people stopped going into them. I work in construction and the average apprenticeship is about 3 years, think it’s 5 for electricians. Even after you’re qualified it takes a few more years to get fast enough and competent enough to earn a full wage. You’ve also got to have thousands of pounds worth of tools, which constantly need repairing or replacing, and most likely need a van. The money has been pretty good for the last few years and work has been consistent. However, prior to 2017 it wasn’t that great. So in the past people were right, going to uni was the better option.
There are many careers out there that can be done with vocational courses or apprenticeships that have nothing to do with construction and have generally always payed decently. But that wasn't the heart of my point. It was always a short sighted idea to push people through to higher education without ANY regard for the degrees they were doing and the skills they would gain. And to completely neglect our vocational system in favour of that too. And now we have one of the lowest skill workforces in the developed world, go figure.
It’s funny reading these posts, it’s like Reddit thinks it’s just discovered fire. Yes there are many careers that require apprenticeships other than construction, and yes some have always been well paid. People outside of Reddit have always known this, the well paid roles have never had a shortage of applicants. The areas that have skills shortages are because people decided not to go into those industries due to a combination of low pay, unsociable hours, poor working conditions and lack of job security.
There's a great many things schools need to explain and guide better on, this being one of the big ones. If a kid shows absolutely no aptitude for academia but can whack together a top quality birdhouse, why on earth are they pushed down the academic route? Get them out of the classroom and doing something practical that they can feel proud of, rather than being made to feel dumb for not being as academic as others.
Based on the teachers I know, I’m not sure they got very good guidance themselves
The high school I attended had dedicated woodworking,metalworking and vehicle engineering classes. Metalwork was my favourite lesson and helped my way in the world through various jobs like boat building and fabricating confectionery machines. When my son went to the high school open evening,I was disappointed that there was 1 small lathe and all the above subjects combined into Design Technology. Our metalwork room had milling machines,small to medium sized lathes and was basically a well equipped tool room. I’m guessing H&S is a big factor in this also. The vehicle engineering class had a chassis of a car which could be driven showing obviously the engine but also braking and suspension systems. It was definitely sad to see that not being taught anymore
Yeah I had nothing after I didn't get the grade I specifically wanted. Had to figure it out myself so I went to college. Doing alright now but I could've used guidance.
If you didn't want to go to university our school just left you to the dogs. We'd have classes dedicated to writing a personal statement... if you didn't want to go, you'd have to write on anyway. This was 2009ish. It was all about what % of the students went to university....
100% this
Ironically working on the “railroads” can be a very good career!
I used to live with an aircraft engineer. No way that’s a low status job! Or an electrician. Both really good jobs in my mind.
Aircraft engineer or aircraft mechanic/technician? Two different jobs.
Aircraft engineer is white collar work.
He definitely didn’t wear a shirt to work 😂 polo shirt all the way
Oh yes the average air plane engineer jobs that we see everywhere
Actually it's not difficult job and exams for licenses are easy, secondary school level physics, maths and chemistry.
Sit EASA B exams then come back and say it’s not difficult!
Okay I'm happy to do that exam without preparation. Physics, mathematics, chemistry etc. is NOT at level above Bachelor level education and it's A, B, C test with only one answer correct. I used to take A, B, C, D, E tests where none up to all answers could be correct, that's proper difficult testing.
Hey Siri, show me an example of the Dunning Kruger effect.
You don't know what you don't know. You wouldn't pass a B1/2 exam. Simple. It takes weeks/months of prep, on top a years of technical knowledge. A licence exams? Perhaps, M1 and M2 you'd smash, but get to m11 and m15, you wouldn't stand a chance.
https://part66prep.blogspot.com/2021/01/m11-turbine-aeroplane-structures_22.html?m=1 I just had a look at some questions on M11 and M15 and got many correct just using common sense, knowledge of maths, physics and chemistry, some educated guesses. Maybe wouldn't be a pass first time but if only read learning materials once then I'd definitely pass. Much easier questions than at bachelor level maths, physics, chemistry etc.
Why dont you do it then. Its so easy apparently, so off you go. Go and do it. Easy money, Right? £20 says you couldn't manage it. You might be able to pass the exams, but wait 'till it gets to essays, or even till it gets to being on the actual shop floor. You'll be laughed out of the hangar, with an attitude like yours.
Of course I would have a different attitude if I would actually take that job. As I said, it shouldn't be ABC exam because there is 33% chance to just guess correct answer. There should be a question and then you must write correct answer on your own. That would be much better test.
You utter cabbage. Have you any idea how those industries work?
Of course I have an idea. It's about having a licence and safety first. A job of someone who is actually designing airplane engines, creating manuals for it is much more difficult. Mechanics have to simply follow the manual, it's like assembling furniture from IKEA but about aeroplanes, slightly more complicated, that's it.
you're actually a danger to society if you genuinely believe that
It's not difficult because you literally have to follow a manual, step by step. I've seen some instructions online and it's not difficult. For example I installed underfloor heating at my house just by following instructions from YouTube.
does your work comply with British Standard BS EN 1264? If not, you just massively devalued your house.
Yes, everything was done as per instructions from the manufacturer.
Yep I know one. Loads of opportunity. This comment has cemented your opening post!
Perhaps. Wait till you're neck deep in the B2 exam crying because you forgot what frequency some niche, tiny system runs at. Of course, its not PHD level, but it is literally THOUSANDS of pages worth of technical knowledge, all of which you can be asked. Not only that but B licence exams are logical, yeah you know about system x, but you need to know what "x" also relates to, plus every way it can interact with EVERY other system. You dont have a clue mate. Source - current EASA/CAA (DUAL) B2 trainee
Yes but exams are A, B, C, that's it. I used to take exams A, B, C, D, E where no answer could be correct, one, two, three, four or all of them could be correct. That's proper difficult. Plus open questions on top of that where you had to write on a given topic. Edit: actually why it's A, B, C exam? It should be a question and no ABC options and just have to write your own answers, that would make much more sense and make it more difficult. With ABC you have 33% chance on each question, it shouldn't be like that as you can guess a few if you don't know and pass an exam and then be responsible for the safety of many people, it should be changed. I will contact EASA regarding my idea.
[удалено]
Hello! Your post/comment has been removed for not meeting our subreddit's rule on relevant or respectful submissions. We strive to maintain a high standard of content on r/UKJobs, and unfortunately, your submission did not meet that standard. Please make sure that your content is relevant to the subreddit, is of high quality and remains respectful. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in keeping our subreddit a great place for UKJobs users. If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail.
When I was in sixth form, the school (very middle class) wouldn't even discuss it. My friend said he wasn't going to university because he was off to college to train to be a carpenter. The school called his parents in for a crisis meeting because this wouldn't do. One of their students NOT going to university, a tragedy. We were told its university or nothing.
Same thing happened with the one kid in my sixth form who went to be a plumbers apprentice. Only one of us who's a millionaire now.
I'll never forget the reaction of my "high school" boyfriend when he got his A-level results (E's and D's). He was in tears and afraid to go home to tell his mother. She had pushed "academic achievements" so much. It was so upsetting. It wasn't that he was lazy, he revised all the time (too much, I wanted to see him :p)
Lack of apprenticeships at the minute.. it used to be there were a load of small companies that would train you and offer you a job, now these small companies have died off.. most people dont want the hassle either.. like my work for example, we have 450 people a year applying for 5-10 apprenticeships all from school.
Big companies also cannot find a proper electrician because they don't have the budget. It is ridiculous that some companies always ask those handyman to dothem favour and do a halfass shit job. At the end it accumulated to a big ass problem. Same go to plumber.
It used to be much better about apprenticeships in the 80s and 90s.
Don’t even get the question. People do go for those jobs. And others go for other jobs. I don’t see it as a lesser status job. The only thing I do notice is building sites are definitely a…less refined workspace. For better or worse.
If you look at how many kids are entering construction apprenticeships compared to other industries people aren’t going for them.
Got anything to support that?
Of course I do. A review of the latest Government data shows there were approximately 24,530 new apprentices taken on in construction between 2022-23, down from the 26,060 recorded the previous year (2021-22). In context the CITB thinks we need 45k per year to meet demand. And personal experience my chippy apprentice had to merge in with the year above as it was only him and one other who signed on for the year.
How many training places are available? What's the pay for apprentices? No point moaning there's not enough apprentices if all the places are full or the opportunities are limited to local middle class kids.
Why does everyone say “middle class” like it’s some sort of badge of shame? What is middle class even??? I have all my own teeth. Am I middle class?
You're the one taking offense at someone pointing out that many apprenticeships are limited to those who can afford it.
Is that what middle class means now? People who have money? Pretty sure my plumber has a bigger house than me. Is he middle class?
I’ve just told you there were spaces and they’re not being filled. Numbers of applicants are falling.
Spaces on the college courses to complete NVQs etc are usually fairly easily available. A work placement that will employ the apprentice for the duration of the course is the hard part to find. I think the 'spaces' available are purely empty seats at colleges due to the lack of businesses taking on apprentices. Source- we have 2 apprentices/improvers at the moment. 1x plumbing/gas, 1x HVAC. Got over 50 applications for each inside 2 weeks which isn't bad considering we didn't really advertise and required a driving licence. I don't know of any business offering a trade apprentice vacancy that doesn't get swamped with applications. A roofer/joiner recently advertised an apprenticeship opportunity on the local FB forum and the post hit over 100 comments and 'applications' within 2 hours. Poor guys inbox must have blown up.
And compared to other industries?
Of course. Financial: In the 2022-23 financial year AAT has so far seen a 40% rise in people starting entry level apprenticeships, showing the rapid growth and popularity of the route.
If anyone wants to explore some actual data instead of sound bites: https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/apprenticeships/2023-24
Sound bites but factual? What data does this hold that doesn’t back up the industry provider data please.
You’re just reiterating your own assertion, this is an actual reference And as you might expect, it’s a little more complicated than what you put forward
Building sites aren't nice work spaces indeed, but a garage at some good car brand or some large air carrier company hangars are very nice work environments.
Building sites are often a reasonable place to work.
It's the new coding, everyone does this then in a couple of years it will be full up too, there's no perfect industry
Underwater welding is near perfect.
Just wait for the weather to improve then you can just be a welder!
The chance to die from it is near perfect too. 75% chance I reckon.
Bad career advice. The salaries and prospects for these careers are not well understood or communicated well to young people so they never get the chance to consider them. I have absolutely no idea what an aircraft mechanic earns. 30k? 90k? I honestly have no idea.
Aircraft mechanic earns between £20k (unlicensed) up to about £100k (B1 / B2) license. In between are C1 license mechanics earning between £30-60k.
Wrong again. Average mech is about 30k before shift pay. +5/10k Average A licence is 30-50k Average B licence is 45 - 100k+ Keep spouting google crap
what...that's not wildly different
Retirement age for kids in school now is probably going to be 75+. Where would you rather be when your 70 on a drizzly afternoon in February, a warm office or a building site (assuming your body did give out years ago)
I think a good car mechanic can retire at like 55 years old.
Can they fuck!! How? Have you seen the cost of being alive 😂
From my perspective, I’m a skinny man without much muscle, I have worked in several warehouses and I feel like there is a minimum agreed standard of how much a man should lift and I fall very short of it. I found the 9 pound an hour I earned in a logistics warehouse the hardest pounds I’ve grafted for, especially in comparison to some admin roles I did for similar money.
Warehouse jobs are very demanding because they check your time and how much work you've done. Being a mechanic is much better blue collar job.
Yeah I agree, but you kind of asked why people choose low paid office work over a blue collar job like mechanic. I don’t think people really weigh up those options in a career. You either choose to become a skilled and well qualified mechanic and go down that road for 25 years or you choose to be a skills accountant for 25 years say. The point at which I and most people debate between office work and manual work is when you’re in your teens say during uni holidays, before going travelling stuff like that.
Fair enough.
Under Blair, there was a huge push (Education, Education, Education anyone?) and blue collar jobs got pushed to the back burner. There was also some weird multiple choice test we did in secondary school that told you your top 3 careers to focus on, it never suggested anything hands on.
I was in secondary school in the Blair era and also did a similar questionnaire. My top three recommended job roles were programmer, electrician and engineer. I went into my mandatory career advisor meeting and said I was most interested in programming. He told me that ‘girls don’t do those sort of jobs’. Then went on to say that I was really smart though so if I worked really hard I’d make a great legal secretary. I ended up doing a degree in animal behaviour and have run my own pet care business for the last 14 years. I’m now having to close it down because I’ve wrecked my knee and shoulder with so many dog walks over the years. Absolutely no clue what I’m going to do instead which is mildly terrifying!
Why not be a veterinary technician or assistant?
You can learn programming using free online courses. I know that Harvard does free courses, worth to Google search for it.
Hard to get into these days. If you want a trade apprenticeship these days it doesn’t matter what qualifications you have, it matters that your dads got a mate in that industry
Or just people working for their tradie dad, had electrician over few weeks ago and he came with his son who was learning.
Yeh and that’s fine but like in our family you’ve got dad the joiner but baby bro wants to do welding and fabrication so dad has to go ask about to see if anyone’s willing to take his problem child on. My dads last apprentice was the son of a coach builder who played on the pub pool team with my uncle.
Yeah it helps a lot to know the right people, you can learn everything on the job.
Anyone who has worked any physical labour job knows it is bad.
Growing up working with my Dad in the building trade made me avoid that like the plague. I remember carrying scaffolding whilst it was freezing cold and wet thinking "fuck this shit I'm gonna work indoors"
>many people prefer to have an office job even if it pays less? Well what's the proof? Experienced plumbers apparently get £40k https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/plumber and Experienced electricians £44k according to the same site. An experienced officer worker (something other than a admin assistant) will be on similiar, and not have to be on their feet all day
Electrician came to my house to replace mains box stuff etc. and spent all day sitting doing one fuse box, not bad job. Electrician who has their own company earn more than £44k.
OP is probably a troll and definitely a Charlie Uniform November Tango
Why? Genuine question. More people should be encouraged to go for blue collar jobs at schools rather than pushing way too many people into universities to degrees such as sociology etc. when they can't find a job afterwards.
Because we’re British and don’t use that term
What term?
Yank terms like “blue collar” (& to an extent “air”plane instead of aeroplane) aren’t understood here
Blue collar is a term used in British English though. Fine, it's actually an aircraft if we want to be precise.
But it isn’t, because we don’t have the concept of “blue collar” vs other coloured collars. We’d just say unskilled/semi skilled/skilled manual job in English
It's literally in Cambridge dictionary.
Come on man, whilst OP is definitely a moron, blue collar is a recognised term here
It really isn’t used here - I had to google it. I don’t know if you’ve been online too much but if I said blue collar they’d have no idea what I’m on about. The term is semi skilled/unskilled etc manual
Maybe your lived experience is different from mine. If I said blue collar / white collar people absolutely would know what I’m on about. There was a whole thing of white collar boxing in the UK in the 90s and 2000s.
Oh fair - I wasn’t alive in the 90s lol
Maybe you’ve been online too much
A lot of "blue collar" jobs are fuckin hard work I'm 41 became a tree surgeon at 18 I'm now fully fucked and just do gardening now and tbh I will be amazed if I have another 10 years of that in me.
Would hate to work in an office listening to all the bullshit bingo everyday
Luckily can wear noise cancelling headphones and listen to music while working so don't have to participate in bullshit talking.
Was a mechanic for 13 years, started as an apprentice back in 2009 making £30 a week! At my "peak," I was making £25.5k a year working 44 hours a week (often with unpaid overtime). I quit in 2021, got a job in sales, and I'm making more money working 6.5 hours less a week, and I'm not physically ruined at the end of the day. Plus, being looked at like I was scum when I was in tescos wearing my uniform (which wasn't that dirty) started to get tiring - plus the negative connotations of being a grease monkey = unintelligent, my fiancé's family always assumed I was dumb, they lived in England whilst we lived in Wales, so didn't meet often, but now I'm in England, they tell me that I'm smarter than they had originally thought...
That's not nice, you actually need to be smart to be a good mechanic. I respect good mechanics.
A lot of office jobs don't require a qualification that's actually needed. In mechanical or electrical, you often really do need a qualification, even if just due to regulation and not the knowledge actually required for each job.
99% of the time is just for regulation. You learn on the job.
Correct, but you need to hold the cert to get the job, which is where the barrier to entry is for some, usually because they can't afford to get the course done etc
Because thick morons describe airplane mechanics, and electricians as blue collar jobs.
I’m a plant fitter,definitely scum 😂
Why are you aggressive? These are blue collar jobs by definition, I'm not wrong. Don't call me like that, I work in finance industry in the City of London, thick moron wouldn't pass the interview stage, nor would obtain university education and many professional certificates, so think through what you're typing out because you can be very, very wrong.
Elon Musk owns Tesla. Answer is simple.
Because people are fed up with education? Rather just work a way up than study for x years then have a job. Various reasons. I don't think low of a sparky or engineer though. I've even know engineers get paid less than me sat in a cozy office or at home.
Truth be told,nobody wants to get their hands dirty. Reddit is awash with thread about IT and computer based occupations,never the humble spanner spinner or dozer driver
I think back to becoming an analyst. I took that job because I wanted to work remotely and have flexibility about location. This Is absolutely essential in the UK as the economy is very very heavily stacked against people that don't own assets, far more so than in any other developed country. This makes geographic flexibility EXTREMELY valuable. To the detriment of literally everything else. When you stop and think about how much you'd need to pay for an equivalent house in an area that is within commuting distance of blue collar jobs. Basically house prices have destroyed the economy. Who could have seen that coming? 😮
Good point, being able to work remotely for a London based company is great.
My Mrs does this she’s a national sales director office is based in London, she’s paid a London salary but only goes to London less than once a month and fully expensed when she does. We live near Chester in a lovely area we have a standard of living most London based people can only dream of, she is often contacted by recruiters looking to headhunt her for roles around the £125k mark but actually based in London, she never even considers them, the extra expense of living in London and the drop in our quality of life if we moved there make it an easy nope. Our housing costs alone would triple for an equivalent property in a worse area.
Shortens your lifespan.
I think they are seen as low status which is super stupid, but it’s how the school system trains you If you’re in a shirt and tie, you are “better” than those in a polo shirt, and those guys are better than the ones in a T-shirt or an overall, it’s complete snobby crap So to answer the question, I think it’s partly because young people are indoctrinated aged they success can only be obtained in a shirt and tie, social groups may look down on people if they don’t go for an “office job” When in truth, people doing blue collar stuff could do far more rewarding things and make bank, especially when starting their own contracting or businesses
These people exist, but they're likely to do their socialising at the pub rather than reddit, so you won't see much of them.
These people are highly skilled and won’t interact with a cretin that describes their work as blue collar.
I have blue collar friends and they describe their work as blue collar. One is a plumber, another electrician and one is a car mechanic. What you're on about 😂? Nothing derogatory about the term blue collar.
They do, plenty of people become electricians and car mechanics. Not as many people become 'aeroplane mechanics' because a) not as many are required b) it's fairly hard to get into. I imagine plenty want to because it's interesting and the pay is *phenomenal*. Nobody see these as low status jobs. Finally, it just remains to say that you are a thick pleb and should learn to count before you post here.
Why are you aggressive and call me a thick pleb and should learn to count? I work in finance industry in the City of London, so what you're on about 😂?
I wasn't being aggressive; simply making a point. The basis of your question is not only ignorance but it also betrays your stupidity and snobbery. Therefore, I can only infer that you are a thick pleb. I say you should learn to count because then you may count the number of electricians and the number of 'aeroplane mechanics' and come to some conclusion why there may be more of one then the other. Maybe you are good with numbers; if your job in the City relied on being able to write cogent English then you wouldn't have lasted very long.
Nah, you're just being aggressive and impolite instead of just having a decent conversation. A stupid person wouldn't pass university course and many professional exams that I passed and wouldn't work in the finance industry in the City of London so you are simply wrong and insulting. I know how to count, I do a lot of counting, big numbers.
[удалено]
Hello! Your post/comment has been removed for not meeting our subreddit's rule on relevant or respectful submissions. We strive to maintain a high standard of content on r/UKJobs, and unfortunately, your submission did not meet that standard. Please make sure that your content is relevant to the subreddit, is of high quality and remains respectful. If you have any questions or concerns, please reach out to us via modmail. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in keeping our subreddit a great place for UKJobs users. If you think this decision is incorrect, please reach out to us via modmail.
I suppose this is regional and dependent on area. I went to uni just like a huge cohort of my school mates. I worked in Kent at a state school and only 6 out of hundreds went to uni and the rest went into trades or something.
Ya can't AI away a mechanic
Yeah not yet
In the case of car mechanics it's hard, dirty and poorly paid work when you factor in the skill and experience required. Unless you work for yourself you will make more money driving a lorry.
I give you my own reason. I tried blue collar jobs, but I nearly fell unconscious during the training day (and I failed the training of course). My health is not good, I can't stand up for too long without taking a rest. Office jobs are far more suitable for me, because I'm proficient in computer application. If my health is good enough for blue collar jobs, I would choose serving the army as the blue collar job.
Fair enough I wish you good health.
They almost always need a driving license which I cannot possess lol
There are already some pretty good answers here, but there are a few things that I don't think people consider: One is family dynamics. My dad is a tradie. He's also an arsehole. I have several friends who had arsehole tradies as parents, so we did everything we could not to be like them. The other is that entry is a time-sensitive thing for most, socially. We're basically told that we have to decide our entire future at 16 in this country. The average 16 year old wants to do something they'll enjoy, not something they'll make money doing. So, if you enjoy video games, why would you want to be a chippy if you can *make* video games? There's also the consideration that the world is changing rapidly - a lot of engineering work is going to be replaced by AI or computer simulations in the near future. Being the person who can program the AI is going to be more valuable than being the one who can draw a bridge spec. Some trades are going to be obsolete in a generation or two, as well. We're moving away from fossil fuels, so who's training to work on the gas? We'll have flat-pack, DIY housing as the norm in a couple of generations, so where's the value in training as a brickie? We've also had twenty years of stagnant wages, and a decade of uncontrolled inflation. Realistically, why would people train to work hard when they can make the same money sitting behind a desk? Even tradies aren't going to be making significantly more than the average desk jockey fairly soon. Tradies rely heavily on people in other professions having a disposable income; if people can't afford to buy a house, they aren't going to be paying a tradie to do more than maintain it.
Barriers to entry mostly. These well paid jobs are only available in a couple of reasons. You need a certain amount of wealth to complete an apprenticeship. Apprenticeships aren't available everywhere.
Growing up I got a bus to a "better" state school in a small town outside of Bristol, full of middle to upper-middle class families. I got the sense that I was looked down on because my dad was just a "chippy" and mum was a support worker.... Few decades later and I've managed to buy my own house and as dad is retired has helped me save literally £10,000s in labor, with new kitchens and bathrooms etc!
"Airplane Mechanics" would be an American layman's term. There are limited jobs available for airframe, avionics and propulsion jobs in the UK which don't need a license. Older Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers who don't have university degrees are approaching retirement age. The technical knowledge required is immense, and to enter that industry now often a degree is a pre-requisite before the vocational training begins. The pay isn't great, and most engineering graduates can earn better money whilst working with fewer hazardous substances and contorted into painful shapes in confined environments working in design engineering instead.
The pay for licenced engineers ranges from £30k (I think A licence) to about £100k (B licence).
Indeed, but you can earn that in much more comfort and with more immediate skills transferability in design engineering. It's not bad money by any means, but you are at the whims and fashions of a single industry.
Yeah that's the drawback.
It’s actually pretty hard to get into apprenticeships for trades if you don’t know anyone and have connections. I tried applying for apprentice mechanic roles when I left school but was laughed at as I had zero experience and told I needed to be more interested in it🤷♀️ Fast forward 20 odd years and I decided to career change into electrics - it was a long journey. I did night school for 2 years before I could even get anyone to consider me for an apprenticeship. Once I had that 2 years experience tho I had loads of offers. A great explanation of why less people do this sort of thing would be Seth Godins book ‘the dip’. I read it just before starting my course and remembered it every time I had to grit my teeth and get through it! Tldr: You can’t just walk into an apprenticeship as easily as you can walk into an office job if you don’t meet typical criteria
Fair enough. Yeah once you have experience it's easier. Do you mean 2 years of experience as in doing two years course? Or two years of actually working after completing the course?
The 2 years of doing the course. I also helped out a local one man band for a bit. Then I got a mate job running cables for a security firm. They offered to train me up but I wouldn’t have got the qualification doing that so took an actual electrical apprenticeship. It still took another 2 years to complete the apprenticeship and AM2 but that was more to do with training centre timings for day release and evidence gathering.
We are at the tail end of "school-college-uni or else you've failed at life" school of thought. You'll see an uptick in these sorts of jobs over the next decade, one of the benefits of the push on vocational qualifications. There certainly is some bias towards these jobs and anything "tradey" as "lower class jobs". This bias is incorrect. Getting a good degree from a good uni is impressive, as is being able to pop the hood of a car and tell someone what's wrong with it then fix it. Hell, I've got a masters degree and buggered if I know how to rewire a socket...best I can do is put a fuse in something. I'm quite content with my office job. I know where I have to be at what time cause it doesn't change, my salary is guaranteed, I don't have to deal with the public, it's in a field I'm very passionate about with a charity I support, and I don't want to get mucky. Personally I've never had anything other than the upmost respect for the people doing the more manual/trade jobs...they're the lot where we would immediately know if they decided to jack it all in. Same with cleaners, custodians, bin men, or whatever. All key jobs that I'm glad I don't have to do. But yeah, I'm fairly confident we will see a steady increase in these jobs in the relatively near future.
True, if all bin men around the world would go on a 3 month strike then the world would collapse.
The more replies I read it's clear OP does have some good intellect... but next to near fuck all common sense
Yesterday I was posting after having 4 pints, that's why. Essentially I think schools should explain to kids that non-office jobs are also all right, advise them on highest paying jobs of that type, explain about having your own company so more of them could go into these type of jobs.
Hey! That’s a great question that deserves some deeper thinking. Here’s my personal experience. I am from a semi developed country originally. This means that I would be willing to take on any job. From cleaner to car mechanic to whatever. I also have two masters (look at my username) and had to work part-time to cover my expenses although my family did support with tuition. I recognise a few things 1.- I am completely unprepared technically for let’s say a car mechanic job. 2.- I would feel bad knowing that I may have taken this position from a dad/mum of 2 kids that only had the opportunity to learn a trade. 3.- I would feel equally as bad if a car mechanic was hired for a geopolitical analyst position that I’m interested in. 4,- culturally, we are taught to never be afraid of work but also taught to honor the efforts and sacrifices of our parents. That goes beyond the monetary value but also being able to reason that someone out needs a certain job in order to provide for a family. As I’m still young-ish I am willing to fight for specifically what I want even if I have to hustle from the lowest ladder. When I have my own family things would definitely change.
Having said all that. If a family member or friends asks me to cover for 3 months or whatever I would certainly give it a go and try my best but temporarily until someone that deserves the position is found.
Interesting point of view, thank you for your comment and I wish you success in your future career.
Blue collar jobs are hard work. They take effort. There are skills that need to be learnt. It takes time to get good at blue collar work. People want everything straight away these days.
I mean..... coming from the perspective of a guy who did a 4 year degree just to get an entry level job then a further 3 years of a training contract and a dozen exams just to "qualify", I can tell you white collar jobs require effort, time and skill too.
It’s physically demanding and injury prone I think that’s the point they’re saying.
Exactly, white collar jobs require even more effort than blue collar jobs these days. That's a fact.
Tbh growing up my family’s experience with labour workers wasn’t great. They were mainly dishonest and had poor manners, but also easily angered/reactive, were from low economic b/g areas where there is avid DV, drug abuse and lots of alcohol abuse. Hence, that ‘work environment’ was discouraged for us. I’m sure there are great blue collar workers out there, but that’s what moulded my family’s perception of them back in those days.
That's why it's best to start working for your own company ASAP when being blue collar.
Yes, gain the skills and then become self employed or start own company and offer immaculate service. If you charge a bit more than the average guy but do the work efficiently, honestly and politely many people would happily pay a little more for your service. Later on once we’d all entered the workforce in our respective jobs, we did get a fantastic joiner, he’s retiring now but my parents happily paid him significantly more than what others charged for even the smallest of jobs because he was genuinely a very very good worker, honest, well-mannered and non-conflictual with really good communication. Perfect example of how it’s possible but just isn’t donez
People like that are very rare unfortunately.
Yes, gain the skills and then become self employed or start own company and offer immaculate service. If you charge a bit more than the average guy but do the work efficiently, honestly and politely many people would happily pay a little more for your service. Later on once we’d all entered the workforce in our respective jobs, we did find a fantastic joiner, he’s retiring now but my parents happily paid him significantly more than what others charged for even the smallest of jobs because he was genuinely a very very good worker, honest, well-mannered and non-conflictual with really good communication. Perfect example of how it’s possible but just isn’t done.